HP/EDS Australia meets with union

By Suzanne Tindal, ZDNet.com.au
20 February 2009 05:45 PM
Tags: hp, eds, pay, cut, butler, caspari, employee, union

EDS union APESMA has met with representatives of HP and EDS today following the news that employees in Australia will be facing pay cuts.

They've indicated to us that they see this as an alternative to mass redundancies.

Michael Butler, APESMA

EDS VP Australia New Zealand David Caspari had written to employees in Australia and New Zealand to say that the company would also look to put through cuts here, depending on legal issues and employee consent. A spokesperson from HP said that the cuts would be across both HP and EDS.

Michael Butler, industrial relations director at the union (the Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers, Australia) said that he met with representatives of both HP and EDS today. "They've indicated to us that they see this as an alternative to mass redundancies," he said, although he added that they also wouldn't give any commitments that there wouldn't be job losses in the future.

The union will be meeting with HP/EDS again next Wednesday, where it will put forward what it believes needs to happen for pay cuts to go ahead legally and without discrimination.

In order for the cuts to go ahead, there needed to be employee consent, which the company has acknowledged. Butler believed HP/EDS required a process to make sure that all employees understood the choice and that the message didn't get garbled as it travelled down the levels of the company.

"We will do all we can to make sure the process is fair and make sure that there's genuine consent," Butler said.

Butler also intended to speak about other general issues such as what it will mean about jobs in the long term if employees do agree to the pay cuts.

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Talkback 21 comments

    EDS Paycuts Anonymous -- 22/02/09

    EDS made a profit for 2009/1, what happened to the rhetoric from the CEO that you would be rewarded for hard work and profitability? EDS employees did not get a pay raise 2008, HP employees did; why can't they just take back the raises HP employees received? No more future contributions to the retirement account; instead we were told that we would receive matching funds to 401K up to 6%. In addition to the pay cuts were are now told we would receive maybe 4% to our 401K if there's a profit on a quarterly basis. Ron Rittenour was allowed to bail out and retire t with a golden parachute from EDS with just 3 years of service. EDS was purchased to be a cash cow for HP. When the market improves Mark Hurd will also bail out with a golden parachute . Where is this all going to end? EDS is top heavy with management who collect big salaries and the bonuses among themselves. The little guy gets nothing. These managers will make it up to themselves for the pay cuts they had to endure by dividing the bonuses among themselves as ususal. These are economic hard times for everyone with the cost of living rising and your pay and benefits being reduced.. I am going to pray that the God in heaven pour out his wrath on these greedy coniving CEO's. And when it's all said and done, you can't take it with you.

    EDS Paycuts Anonymous -- 27/02/09 (in reply to #320123839)

    The comment is that HP employees did get a pay rise - that is not true. Sitting here in HP, most people complain (and resign) saying that they have not had a pay rise for years (myslef included). We have been fed a lot of crap about the EDS deal, and it appears that EDS have also been fed the same.... One thing is common - mangement get the $$$$$$ where the frontline "workers" don't.

    HP/EDS paycut Anonymous -- 22/02/09

    It's all very well for the CEO & execs to say they're taking 20% pay cuts to their base salary seeing as it only makes up less than 5% of their total remuneration.

    Pay cuts Anonymous -- 23/02/09 (in reply to #320123844)

    Execs will still get their bonuses & other perks, while the others get nothing even in good times. What a joke.

    We won't see that money back!! Anonymous -- 23/02/09

    I for one won't be accepting the pay cut. I haven't received a pay rise for two years now because I get paid too much for my job scale.

    Pay cut or Resignation Anonymous -- 23/02/09

    This is going to be put to staff as "This is your paycut, if you do not accept then EDS will take that as your resignation".
    I for one will be saying I do not accept the cut and I do not resign.
    That leaves them the option of sacking me, and given my performance reviews have never been less than "Exceed expectations" this will leave them open to a lawsuit for wrongful dismisal.

    I'd prefer a redundancy Anonymous -- 23/02/09

    At least that will buy me some time to find a company that treats it's employees with respect

    Option 3 - Leave without pay Anonymous -- 24/02/09

    Rather than cutting staff pay, why not everyone takes 2-3 weeks off/year without pay to reduce EDS financial burden until business gets better.

    "Tough" times at HP/EDS... Anonymous -- 24/02/09

    RE: " I for one won't be accepting the pay cut. I haven't received a pay rise for two years " try 1% total increase in FIVE years.
    That includes CPI. - Across the board in [insert company name here...]

    Option 4 Anonymous -- 24/02/09

    CEO's take a 50% cut to their gross package - really, the amount of their package would still be in the millions - who couldn't live on $1M a year for Christ's sake. If all top execs (say those that get more than $500K per annum) took a 50% cut then all the smaller fish would still have jobs without any cuts.

    CEO Cuts Anonymous -- 24/02/09 (in reply to #320124005)

    Mark Hurd (the CEO) has said he will take a 20% cut in his base salary.
    His base is about 1.5 million but his other bonuses and renumeration are about 42 million.
    So he takes no real cut but expects others to.

    Won't stop redundancies Anonymous -- 25/02/09

    Even if the 5% pay cuts do get approved by the majority - this won't stop HP/EDS moving along with redundancies.

    They are currently bringing Mphasis staff over from India on 457 Visas to transferr knowledge from Australian staff members - giving the Australian staff members redundancy, and then having the Mphasis staff return to India where it is feasable.

    Thus, they are saving money by letting Australian staff go, and loosing the experience as well.

    It's a wonder that companies such as Telstra haven't sued EDS/HP yet for inexperienced staff stuffing up, and having Telstra customer details being sent to competitors.

    EDS Union? Anonymous -- 25/02/09

    Who is this union that suppose to be negotiating with EDS?

    I work for EDS and have never heard of them. Wouldn't this union be helping members not to get a pay cut instead of helping EDS to legally implement the pay cut?

    "EDS union APESMA "? Anonymous -- 25/02/09

    I too haven't heard of, nor from APESMA. How many EDS constituents does this union have have, that they are talking to HP/EDS our behalf?
    Of course, HP/EDS will want the preposed "pay cuts to go ahead legally" and to be seen as without discrimination.
    Why doesn't the union oppose the job and pay cuts seeing as the EDS profits were up for 2009/Q1?

    APESMA Anonymous -- 26/02/09 (in reply to #320124085)

    Where have you been then?
    The last people agreement was reviewed by this group - they told the people to reject it on lots of grounds.
    The redunancies will NOT stop with a 5% pay cut. your long service leave, redunancy pay, annual leave etc etc etc will go down 5% too. I will be saying stick your 5% because EDS paid it's way - it's HP that didn't, take it out of their hide not EDS's. One company - what a load of bull - we performed beyond expectations, HP didn't.

    Union Anonymous -- 03/03/09 (in reply to #320124129)

    I think union need to get the fact from HP/EDS about applying pay cut to Australian employees. I have the understand that the US and other countries have the pay rise with CPI in last 10 years. Yet, in Australia, most of us did not get the rise with CPI. Many of us only has the pay rise of 3% to 5% in last decade. We just can not afford to have any pay cut.

    The obscenity of Mark Hurde's Proposal Anonymous -- 27/02/09

    Actually EDS is the only reason HP made a profit at all, they suck at services . There is an element of obscenity here, Hurd is bragging about his 20% cut on his base, but takes home 44 million in bonuses. APESMA are very naive if they believe the rhetoric but my experience with them has not been positive, they do nothing and suck up the company nonsense. And also, where is the guarantee that you will be receiveing what you deserve when things look up again or your retrenchment package is based on your previous salary, ever thought of that? I used to be paid far under the range in the Brown era, the rot started then. But lets be honest here, the only reason they get away with it is that the leadership behaviors we see have been rewarded for so long. Especially in EDS, nobody dared to speak up for so long, long live the boys club. It is really simple - DO NOT CONSENT. Don't take the crap for once, stand up for yourselves. Even witih the paycuts, they will make people redundant with architected retrenchments,
    EDS has been getting away with that for years. by the way to the person who had exceed expectations for years - doesn't hold any value, little Jonnie's IR laws allow corporations to shed for operational reasons, no leg to stand on. EDS' financial burden? Hmm, interesting, so employees are a burden now? They used to be the company's best asset. My advice - pick up that package and get out now. Don't make yourself sick in that company, they are not worth it.

    HP/EDS Paycuts Anonymous -- 28/02/09

    If you read the Bill Thomas message (EDS EMEA), you will see that 1 there will be paycuts to prevent company-wide incremental workforce reductions but 2 the note says "We also still have some challenges ahead in the form of workforce reduction across the region. The timing for workforce reductions and country integrations will vary in line with differing country legal requirements and consultation processes." So whatever you do don't accept the pay cut it is just a scam so they save on the redundancy package they have to pay - don't forget that's based on your current salary...

    HP Pay Cuts - an unfair act of economic oportunism and greed. Damian -- 02/03/09

    Since when has making 1.9 Billion dollars nett profit in a little over 12 weeks been a legitimate excuse to cut the salaries of hundreds of thousands of people world wide? I would suggest never in a million years, Mark Hurd has revealed his true colors with this one.

    First we need to put Mark Hurd's 20% salary cut into perspective, remember he is only taking a cut to his base salary ($1,450,000) which amounts to a $290,000 drop. Seems quite reasonable until you examine the following, publicly available, information.

    * Mark Hurd's total compensation in 2008 was $42,514,524
    * His compensation in fiscal year 2007 was $25,253,461 - so, by my calculations a 68% increase in the total package from 2007 to 2008.
    * He also exercised $10 million worth of stock options and had $15.7 million worth of HP stock vest during the 2008 period
    * His compensation package includes approximately $738,000 worth of additional compensation;

    * Personal and home security - $256,000
    * Personal use of HP's corporate jet - $135,734 (you have to love that don't you?)
    * $71,000 in mortgage subsidy he is guaranteed for relocation expenses under his employment agreement.

    So, the question is; what's the significance of his stated 20% cut in base salary? I would suggest next to nothing.

    6 people at the top of the HP pyramid accounted for $142,774,325 in compensation in 2008 alone. That is an obscene amount of money.

    Stand up for yourself and tell these people enough is enough!

    See the full article at http://www.damiansaunders.net

    You need not worry ... Anonymous -- 03/03/09

    The fact that EDS/HP need employee consent, should put this 'debate' to bed. I can't think why any employee would except the offer. Even if on the 'bench', they would be far better off getting redundancy. And will we all get base-pay increases once the market returns to normal - NO !!!

    Must-see blog Mr Roosevelt -- 08/03/09

    http://www.damiansaunders.net/2009/02/26/commentary/hp-pay-cuts-an-unfair-act-of-economic-opportunism-and-greed/

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