US won't copy Aussie NBN: Steve Wozniak

Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak gave the government's National Broadband Network (NBN) project the thumbs-up during his flying visit to Australia, but lamented that it was unlikely the US will ever get similar high-speed broadband access or infrastructure.

Steve Wozniak

Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak (Credit: Luke Hopewell/ZDNet Australia)

Speaking at the Australian Chambers Business Congress on the Gold Coast today, Wozniak told ZDNet Australia that he feels the investment in the NBN came after a cry from the people for better infrastructure.

"The attitude a couple of years ago was 'oh my gosh, Telstra is really letting us down and they're expensive and they're slow and they're not making Australia number one in the world [for broadband]'," Wozniak said.

"The Australian people felt that very high-speed broadband was a key part of the future and we'd better not get left behind," he added, saying that the outcry has given way to the need for high-speed broadband networks from both sides of Australian politics.

"I think that was a turnaround [for Australia]."

Wozniak said that while the fibre-to-the-home project was good for Australia, he didn't think that the United States would ever see a similar project.

"It'd be a great model, but I don't think it will ever happen in the US. I'm sorry, I'm really, really negative about [its] prospects," he said.

Wozniak said that he is unable to get fixed-line broadband to his house due to carrier limitations, and now uses a Long Term Evolution wireless service from his local network. While he said that there's currently no requirement to run fixed broadband to his home, he still feels the lack of fixed infrastructure is an issue for the country.

"I've spoken right up to the chairman of the [Federal Communications Commission] about these complaints," he said.

In his most recent State of the Union address, US president Barack Obama announced a vision to provide 98 per cent of homes in North America with access to high-speed wireless broadband by 2016.

"Within the next five years, we'll make it possible for businesses to deploy the next generation of high-speed wireless coverage," he said at the time.

"This isn't just about faster internet or fewer dropped calls. It's about connecting every part of America to the digital age."

Wozniak, however, feels that Obama's pledge is just another in a long line of broken presidential promises.

"Every ... president since the start of the internet ... said you've got to have broadband, we've got to get broadband to everybody! They all say it, but nothing's ever happened to bring it to me!

"I find it very frustrating."

Stay tuned to ZDNet Australia for a more in-depth feature on Steve Wozniak's Australian visit next week, in which he talks about the birth of Apple, where he thinks the company should go and his insights into the real Steve Jobs.

Talkback

Geographic monopolies rule absolutely in the US telecoms market. Even fibre where available often costs USD125 per month, limiting its take-up to the well-off. Abject failure of telcos to provide broadband to a third of Australians is finally being rectified with the NBN, but no US consumer expects to see any change in the forseeable future. Australia's the best country in the world, folks.

umbriaumbria June 3rd, 2011
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"Australia's the best country in the world"

Well assuming the NBN is completed and not trashed by the coalition baboons. Seriously this is possibly the first time that I actually feel sorry for Americans, Australia will soon have the best, most functional and future proof network when the NBN is complete. Americas lack of foresight is not surprising though, they have been sliding backwards for a few decades now... perhaps Abbott and his chums would like to move there so they can enjoy all the slow internet they can get.

Hubert CumberdaleHubert Cumberdale June 3rd, 2011
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I don't think it comes down to a lack of foresight on America's part, it's probably got more to do with the fact that they are broke.

mwil19mwil19 June 5th, 2011
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Agree mwil19...

We all know that American's are extremely patriotic, entrepreneurial and want the best for the USA.

being so, I'm sure if they were in a better financial situation (say like Australia is) they would embrace a fibre network like ours... sans negativity, FUD and political lies...we as Aussies, who also want the best for Australia, have to endure!

RizzRizz June 5th, 2011
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I'm American. Our government is controlled by giant corporations, and our two party, first past the post political system renders progressives impotent. It's not that we're "broke", it's that AT&T spends more money lobbying the US government than any other corporation in the world.

sonicmerlinsonicmerlin June 6th, 2011
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14 Trillion in public debt, and 53 Trillion in total debt is what I'd consider broke.

mwil19mwil19 June 6th, 2011
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That's not to have a shot at the US, just to Illustrate that they have more important issues than FTTH right now, namely fixing the basics of their economy.

mwil19mwil19 June 7th, 2011
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The NBN is a costly white elephant that will blowout and Australia will soon catch up with the USA in terms of debt. Funny isn't it, the US doesn't have the NBN, yet all the great internet companies, like Google, Yahoo, Ebay, Facebook, etc are developed in the USA, whereas Australians are rarely successful in commercializing new internet technologies. Wonder why? - hint it has nothing to do with the NBN.

joseph Bjoseph B June 7th, 2011
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@ JosephB says - "Australians are rarely successful in commercializing new internet technologies. Wonder why?

LOL...

Because half of the Australian's (just like you) have no foresight and can't see the benefits of technology (such as an NBN) UNTIL someone else does it...! DER!

RizzRizz June 7th, 2011
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Ooh and seriously JosephB catch up to the US in terms of debt...FFS?

So (using mwil19's numbers) you believe the NBN will cost $53 Trillion...LOL!

We have a winner...! Funny isn't it you say. Yes you are!

RizzRizz June 7th, 2011
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I think you misunderstood !

The comment was about the US success in creating the internet, then capturing its value via all the genesis of all the major dotcom companies, and how it did not require an NBN. The implication is that US gets on with the job while half the aussies (just like you) sit around waiting for da-guvment to hand them a $50b++ NBN, claiming that they will suddenly becoming entrepreneurial once it arrives, despite their abject failure to do so before hand. Basically, the US has the runs on the board, us aussies have got nothing (*). An NBN is not going to change that.

(*) Actually we have wi-fi .. that WAS us aussies ... but, well da-guvment is ensuring that line of successful research is kept in check, lest it compete with the NBN !!!

Oops, soory to point that out. Gee, and so many people plussed the comment. Oh well. Reality sucks sometimes.

asymbolicoasymbolico July 30th, 2011
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asymbolico, actually that WiFi patent and a lot of the original Cellular work was done by The PMG/Telecom and the CSIRO under Labor governments, Libs cut funding. Go back to early computing we are among the leaders but Lib governments cut the funding and refused to fund a research/prototype semiconductor/I.C manufacturing facility the Uni's and CSIRO were pleading for google "CSIRAC: Australia’s first computer" . Compare with the US " 'IPad Deconstructed' Forum Makes Case for Federal Research". Our Conservatives unfortunately are true Colonial Primitives

Abel AdamskiAbel Adamski November 11th, 2011
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"The NBN is a costly white elephant"

More white elephants lol...

"that will blowout and Australia will soon catch up with the USA in terms of debt."

False.

"Wonder why? - hint it has nothing to do with the NBN."

That's right it has nothing to do with the NBN, Rizz pretty much summed this one up and the problem is you have totally clueless people in power, this all started with the Howard government, to them the internet was just a fad and you know the rest of that story.

Hubert CumberdaleHubert Cumberdale June 8th, 2011
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Good to see the woz was in oz! Also good to see he continues to blabber on about things he doesn't know much about. Both at&t (u-verse) and Verizon (FIOS) have offered fibre to the home in the US for some time now. For $69 / month I can get TV (think Foxtel) and Internet (unlimited). It is offered by public companies in a commercial manner. If I want it, I pay for it and I get it. If I don't want it, it isn't forced down my throat by the government. That is the difference between the nanny state that is Australia and the free world

grdollargrdollar June 3rd, 2011
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And I assume you have taken a look at the coverage of both services, and understand a relatively small portion of USA can access these, and the coverage is confined to the most densely populated areas of the largest cities ala' Optus/Telstra HFC?

Whilst FTTH will be forced down peoples throats in Australia when it is finished, how is it any different from copper being forced down peoples throats as is, outside of FTTH being more reliable, lower latency, faster downstream, faster upstream and potentially cheaper as you don't need to pay a extra $30 for a antique PSTN phone?

DuidekaDuideka June 4th, 2011
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Hi Duideka. Yes. I lived in the US for 12 years and understand that the coverage is not even close to 100% (woz, for example, lives in a pretty obscure part of Los Gatos and I am surprised he gets water to his house!). My concern with the NBN is that it stinks of pork and is really a stimulus package in disguise, being used by the politicians to create jobs and, hence, buy votes (those ads on tv with the kids in the classroom being immersed in a shuttle launch are cringeworthy (especially given the shuttle won't even be around to see the NBN) and the doctors giving remote treatment - most doctors I know can barely use email, and you don't need fibre to have a video chat session). When government gets involved costs blow out (I have been to the NBNCo offices in Sydney with their Herman Miller chairs and sweeping views of the harbour) and decision makers are people like "filter the internet" conroy. This project will end up being 2x budget and take 2x the estimated time to deliver. The NBN is a great idea but it is in the wrong hands

grdollargrdollar June 4th, 2011
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Why is it so hard to look into the future? Why are you always looking at the current situation and try to put the future in to the same box?

Years ago my grandma don't know how to use a phone. Then, my mom dont know how to use a internet. Now we've got a new N-Generation growing up.

The doctor don't use the net for treatment NOW! does not mean they can't in the future. Maybe one day we will launch a shuttle a day, like plane flying in the sky. People back 50 years could only dream of flying in a plane.

Everyone know the cost is huge! Majority wins. Whats the result? Labor won. case closed. Please move forward!

cltw666cltw666 June 5th, 2011
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Well stated, It doesn't make sense to install fibre to my 87 year old mother in laws house who doesn't know how to use a computer at an enormous cost for all. A proper cost benefit analysis with a close look at alternative technologies and options was never done and therefore the government is foolish to go forward with the NBN as is.

joseph Bjoseph B June 7th, 2011
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Do you think she will live there for the next 40 years?

Perhaps, just perhaps and I'm going out on a limb here [sic] someone "else" will get use of it!

Just like you did if you bought a used home and the previous owners connected...umm, water, sewerage, electricity, oh and a copper phone line"...

Gee how about that, eh?

RizzRizz June 7th, 2011
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"It doesn't make sense to install fibre to my 87 year old mother in laws house who doesn't know how to use a computer"

But she knows how to use a phone right? You do realise that the NBN is also a replacement network for the rotted out copper on which people rely on to communicate with voice traffic.

"at an enormous cost for all."

The sky is falling!!!

"A proper cost benefit analysis with a close look at alternative technologies"

You don’t know what a CBA is do you?

"alternative technologies"

What alternative technology can match fibre? Don’t you think it would be wise to roll out a future proof network that can keep up with everyone’s bandwidth needs?

"therefore the government is foolish to go forward with the NBN as is."

False. Foolish would be rolling out a substandard patchwork network based on FTTN.

Hubert CumberdaleHubert Cumberdale June 8th, 2011
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when did copper start rotting?
have you seen other examples of cba's done recently? you know the one about garbage in - garbage out? all financial models involve significant estimations and projections and can only hope to contain anything close to all the variables. you do a cba and if it looks real good then it might be good, if it looks like it could possibly be good if a lot of things just happen to follow our assumptions it might be a good idea to think twice...
sydney's cross city tunnel?
brisbane airport link?
how about treasury modeling on tax receipts - ooops how could we foresee the impact the gfc would have on cgt receipts?

the technology is not the issue. the process, the delivery, the way govt bypasses its own rules , the mandatory removal of the copper network, delivery to low density areas first - these are among the things that are wrong.

f.a.hayekf.a.hayek June 8th, 2011
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"This project will end up being 2x budget and take 2x the estimated time to deliver."

False.

"The NBN is a great idea but it is in the wrong hands"

Do you think Quigley is incompetent? If so who has the right hands?

Hubert CumberdaleHubert Cumberdale June 8th, 2011
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pure speculation. it hasnt been built yet. we shall see what it costs one day in the future. i for sure hope it comes in on or under cost projections. i certainly wont be impressed if i am right and it costs far more than anticipated.

anyway? onto quigleys hands... never met him or them but there are some questions still going on about mr quigley and alcatel-lucent....

f.a.hayekf.a.hayek June 8th, 2011
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"pure speculation"

Exactly. Pure speculation. Now tell grdollar that.

"questions still going on about mr quigley and alcatel-lucent...."

You mean the Liberal party/The Australian smear campaign? Sorry but if you are going to try and give credence to their blatant tactics then you can no longer be taken seriously in this debate yourself.

Hubert CumberdaleHubert Cumberdale June 8th, 2011
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agreed that much of the talk is an attempt to fling mud and yet mr quigley has recently acknowleged that some of his statements were not true.

f.a.hayekf.a.hayek June 8th, 2011
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As usual the anti-NBN zoo crew (thanks for the apt description HC) in their infinite wisdom [sic], are up to their old tricks using contradictions/one rule for them another for everyone else…

Fa says… in support of a CBA…

“all financial models involve significant estimations and projections and can only hope to contain anything close to all the variables”…

But in relation to the business case/corporate plan, then says…

“pure speculation. it hasn’t been built yet. we shall see what it costs one day in the future”…

Oh Fa, if a CBA was done (which BTW, the apolitical ACCC boss Graeme Samuel believes isn’t even possible to do, for such a comprehensive build with such variables)… you would simply dismiss all positives and hone in on the negatives (as all CBA’s have an element of both – no project is 100% positive or 100% negative) even if the pos/neg ratio was 100/1… just as you do the McKinsey report, Corporate Plan/Business Case!

To clinch your biased contradictions, you scoff pure speculation, but yet purely and disgracefully, keep speculating wrong-doing in relation to Quigley/Alcatel? Gee if the NBN is so bad, why do you need to resort to such low tactics as smearing its "not guilty" (you do believe in democracy don't you???) boss, one who is even donating his first year’s salary to charity?

RizzRizz June 8th, 2011
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i did not say anything in support of the cba - it was brought up by another and i replied. a cba is chock full of assumptions and variables. i suggested a cba is not a guarantee of success.

what i did suggest is that if your modelling was only painting a liklihood of moderate success when it includes a whole swag of assumptions then i would probably be staying away.

perhaps if you re-read my comment on speculation you might see that it was not an attack on your precious nbn. one poster said it would cost far more, another said rubbish. neither one can know. its only speculation yet both stated it as though it were carved in stone.

and again i did not bring up quigley - he was brought up by hc who left him wide open for questions. quigley himself stated he had made some statements to the govt that were not true.

there is no longer any speculation as to the Alcatel wrongdoing.

keep looking for statements and angles that are not there. there is as much mud thrown by you as thre is fud thrown from others.

f.a.hayekf.a.hayek June 8th, 2011
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Yes that's it fa... it's everyone else's fault for mentioning something, that you then "innocently" expand upon in your typical FUDulent, ostrich fashion...!

Glad people like you weren't calling the shots bygone, or we wouldn't have asphalt roads let alone internet would we... afterall we wouldn't want mandtory removal of dirt roads to help the country progess now would we?

Quick fa, back to the "wireless", your hero AJ will be giving you further FUD lines you can repeat here, parrot fashion...as you do!

RizzRizz June 9th, 2011
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"the apolitical ACCC boss Graeme Samuel" LOL

mwil19mwil19 June 8th, 2011
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LOL, as only Telstra fanbois do...mwil19!

Because the facts are Mr, Samuel was ACCC chief under the Coalition government and Labor governments...

Apolitical... but please don't the facts stand in the way... well, you never have before...!

RizzRizz June 9th, 2011
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Rizz, He is a close personal friend of the Kroger family. I wouldn't say he's apolitical.

mwil19mwil19 June 9th, 2011
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WTF has that got to do with anything…? We are talking apolitical professionalism in his position.

It doesn’t matter who his friends are. I am pro-NBN (making me currently much more pro-Labor than pro-Lib) but a lot of my friends are staunch Liberals voters and always will be.

Gee have a look under your bed, you may even have one Labor friend of your own, under there too?

If anything (as you hint/infer) if Mr. Samuel’s personal association with the Kroger’s was to have any bearing upon his professional duties, it would pitch him squarely “against the NBN and calling FOR a CBA”…!

This primarily proves he is professional, but more so… honest in his assessment…

RizzRizz June 9th, 2011
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You talking about the same Graham Samuel?

http://www.zdnet.com.au/accc-dodges-nbn-monopoly-question-339299045.htm

I'd say he has his tongue wrapped around whichever political master is paying his cheques on any given day.

Sorry If I hit a nerve Rizz, not trying to wind you up.

mwil19mwil19 June 9th, 2011
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Nerve? No not at all, because according to you, every time I easily lure you in A G A I N, I get richer... so...speaking of "wind ups...LOL.

But thanks as usual for simply proving my point...

You say that Mr. Samuels is a close friend of Liberal back room number cruncher Kroger's family, but yet he still backs Labor's NBN, as beneficial for Australia...

Once again the only nerve you hit was your own d'oh nerve... at least you are consistent...

Keep trying tiger...kaaachiiiiinnggg!

RizzRizz June 9th, 2011
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Rizz, no post I've made on this topic is a slur on you, I'm just saying that he's not apolitical since he plays the game for whichever master can help him at the time.

If you wish to take everything personally then that's your misguided prerogative, but I suggest you take a deep breath before you start typing.

mwil19mwil19 June 9th, 2011
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Mine wasn't a slur on you either, stop sobbing and being so defensive and thin skinned...this isn't kindy where we all hold hands...!

Seems you wish to argue about absolutely everything, so fine... but don't cry personal (or reverse psychology personal...LOL, in this case)...when I don't shower you with rose petals.

But it is your way, to try to deflect back on me when your argument is lost, as it is AGAIN now.

But is Quigley is on holiday? ... Seems you needed a new target for your mud... and Graeme Samuel (apparently a the Liberal voting Labor supporter...or something you said?) was it... go tiger!

Ooh and again thanks for being lured so readily and compellingly... kaaaccchhhiiiiiiingggg!

SIGH... (and I thought some of the others were fun)...!

RizzRizz June 9th, 2011
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Are you struggling to read English? All I said was he isn't apolitical. Maybe if read what people write instead of jumping down everyone's throats, you might make some sense.

mwil19mwil19 June 10th, 2011
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One of us is certainly struggling to read and to cover his own ineptness AGAIN... ooh that'd be you...

Because you said he's not apolitical because he's a close friend of a (if not the) most powerful Liberal party family, the Kroger's... YOU said it, remember, hellooo!

But he supports Labor's NBN, whilst being a close friend of the Libs so WTF does that make him...apolitical? Then you try to squirm by making mud slinging accusations...disgraceful!

There's no wonder you are unable to comprehend what I write, when you have NFI of anything you write your self...

If you were to show minimal restraint, instead of jumping down my throat willy nilly (simply because of your past humiliations at my hands, due to your other equally ridiculous comments) and comment more sparingly, you probably still wouldn't make sense, to even your self...

Now to prove your complete hypocrisy once and for all, why not call me ****wit AGAIN...

Some people eh!

RizzRizz June 10th, 2011
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Apolitical means "not political; of no political significance."

For the 5th time, all I was doing was pointing out that Mr Samuel is of political significance, hence your comment is incorrect.

Maybe instead of slinging insults, you could learn English.

mwil19mwil19 June 10th, 2011
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Exactly apolitical - NOT political...

Being a Lib friend (and probably voter) but supporting the other sides NBN (BECAUSE IT IS WHAT AUST. NEEDS) is what then...if not apolitical...?

Oh that's right, you've decided he's a yes man haven't you... well that must be it [sic]...

YOUR OWN EVIDENCE... proves he IS apolitical...FFS! Hence your comment is incorrect...stop squirming and just man-up for once...!

RizzRizz June 10th, 2011
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"of no political significance". You really should learn English, it's a great language!

mwil19mwil19 June 10th, 2011
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Just can't let it go eh...?

Once a loser always a loser...(in our debates - don't want you sobbing personal...LOL)

apolitical - (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) politically neutral; without political attitudes, content, or bias, politically neutral.

It's a great language... how would you know...LOL!

Like previously sonny, you have last say... go on (shakes head).

RizzRizz June 10th, 2011
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Does everybody agree that with the delivery of the NBN level playing field Telstra must be allowed to compete on a fair and competitive basis without the constant call from opponents for rules and regulations that advance their business but restrict Telstra.

Australians have seen regulations on Telstra that would never be acceptable in any other first world country and all in the guise of competition. Strange indeed that we now see the ACCC (champion of competition) agreeing to have all competition banned to the NBN Co.

Telstra is to receive a payment for transference of its assets (and customers) to the NBN Co and I hear that the next devious plan of Telstra opponents is to agitate for restrictions on how Telstra can use their cash payment or in fact unbelievably, demand that Telstra cannot use this cash injection for company promotion.

sydneylasydneyla June 4th, 2011
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Sydney, this exercise is about Australia's comms and an NBN. It is not just about Telstra.

The only people who are worried about and keep harping on about Telstra, are stakeholders in Telstra, who have their own selfish interests, not Australia's interests at heart!

I'm sure everyone, except those such as you, expect a fair deal for "all" companies, including Telstra... not just Telstra!

But sadly the biggest worry isn't Telstra being treated unfairly, the biggest worry is due to Telstra's size and influence that they could theoretically, receive preferential treatment by negotiating cheaper NBN access pricing than their competitors, for migrating so many customers to the NBN, thus giving them an advantage, not disadvantage...

And let's not forget the $11B Telstra will receive, so please...!

It's your all or nothing at all mentality, also shown by the previous Telstra (mis) management, which is why Telstra do not have FTTN now and do not have a renewed monopoly...

You'd think, having let greed get in the way twice already to their detriment, Telstra and their subservient sheep would have learned by now...!

RizzRizz June 4th, 2011
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Hear what you say Rizz and it is good to know that Telstra will be free (and able) to give all competitors in the Retail provision business fierce and strong competition without whinge or whine. I hope Telstra goes in hard with massive promotion and super deals which will be of great benefit to the Australian consumer.

sydneylasydneyla June 4th, 2011
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It would be great if Telstra can do this and all the better for Australia. Finally they will actually have to compete on a level playing field and won't have their wholesale monopoly to manipulate the market with. Lets see how they actually go in that new environment.

In terms of comparisons to the USA. The population density over there is vastly different which allows the free market to deliver decent services in a lot more places and still make a profit. In Australia there are vast areas where the free market cannot turn a profit, so they just don't deliver service. There are not many other countries in a similar situation to us, maybe Canada.

Steve123Steve123 June 6th, 2011
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Me too Syd... because as history has shown... Telstra are the industry standard.

They set the prices and the rest clamour to undercut them. Which is why it was mutually beneficial for them all, (and detrimental to us, the consumers) for Telstra to have kept prices high for so long!

RizzRizz June 4th, 2011
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I was listening to ¨Gloria¨ Alan Jones, and he said how this network is not future proof and that fibre is already obsolete or at least will be obsolete by the time its rolled out, as the Germans made a breakthrough using lasers.

At least the coalition will save us from rolling out obsolete fibre, so we can have future proof copper wire to our house instead.

KenShabbyKenShabby June 5th, 2011
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haha.
"Frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads!"
Can probably also been done with an investment of "One Miiiillllion dollars" too :)

pmoxeypmoxey June 6th, 2011
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"the Germans made a breakthrough using lasers."

Yep, using fibre.

pcsorbapcsorba June 7th, 2011
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Its a good plan, isnt it KS? Instead of paving the dirt roads allready there, the Coalitions plan is to build more dirt roads! Alan Jones is a misguided fool on this topic, not seeing the flaws in his arguments when they are staring him in the face.

FTTH is outdated he says, using a 26 Tb connection as an example. Slight flaw in his argument was the the 26 Tb connection was done on a FTTH connection... If thats not future proofing, I dont know what is.

GavGav June 6th, 2011
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@rizz seriously - what a trite response. completely ignoring the point of the post and replying with your own dogma. all these internet companies started and still run today without ftth. they dont need it. will it be better/easier/faster? sure.

australia IS fast approaching the mess that is the US in terms of ever increasing govt expenditure and ever increasing govt interference in our lives.

the govt receives over $300+billion a year and still cant balance its books and you think they can build this massive piece of infrastructure efficiently?

you think the govt will stop being coercive once its rollout is finished? look at the internet filter? how many people want a govt controlled filter? who cares - you get no say in it. how many people want a carbon tax? who cares - you get no say in it.

this govt has decided it cannot get by on the billions it already takes from you and goes out and borrows more. then it finds it still needs to spend more money and sets about increasing taxes. you think the mining taxes are not taxes on all australians? you think carbon taxes are not taxes on all australians.

the nbn issue is part of something far bigger and far more concerning than the piddly $30-??? billion they will spend. its about govts becoming more and more coercive, govts making more and more decisions on your behalf, about ppl expecting govt to take care of them and abdicating their own rights and responsibilities.

the govt in this country already directly accounts for 1/3 of the economy and what do they produce? yes they provide many valuable services - but how many services do they provide that we could really live without (or shock horror - do ourselves) let alone what sort of efficiency gains could be made within govt.

the only growth in the US economy in the last 10 years has been from the govt and that is not real growth. that is a growth in the burden on tax paying citizens. that is a redistribution of wealth by force. wanna guess what slice of the pie govt spending makes in the US?

read the henry tax review?
If these projections prove correct, government budgets will need to change. One option would be to reduce other areas of government spending. Another would be to increase revenue. The latter would present particular problems for the States, whose existing taxes are relatively inefficient and have limited revenue-raising capacity. It would therefore be prudent to design a tax system now that would be capable of delivering higher tax revenues efficiently in future decades, should that prove necessary. Increasing the revenue-raising capacity of the tax system would require a greater emphasis on broad-based taxes.
wow! how quickly did we skip over the option of reducing spending and dive right into the meat of the review - how do we increase tax - eg redistibute your wealth.

f.a.hayekf.a.hayek June 8th, 2011
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Umm fa....

I know its hard for those sans foresight such as yourself to envisage, so instead look back 25 years...If people such as you had their way back then and governments/comms companies didn't improve worldwide comms we WOULDN'T have these internet companies, would we?...

And you believe such improvements will stop... NOW... because you say...FFS! As long as the technologies are available, improvements will evolve, as they always have and do!

RizzRizz June 8th, 2011
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how many great innovative internet companies sat around waiting for a govt to do something or build something? they went out and worked with what they had or they made it themselves.

you continue to twist and turn words looking for a way to advance your own mud throwing. no body said innovation will die because the govt is building a new network.

innovators arent sitting on their hands waiting for the new network to be built. they are out there today doing things with or without the govt. people taking action of their own accord because they see opportunities. theyre not sheep waiting to be fed by an increasingly bloated, pervasive and coercive govt.

i do not understand your intense and vitriolic reactions and responses. democratic society grows and thrives on healthy discourse, questioning and learning rather than just swallowing the party line.

f.a.hayekf.a.hayek June 9th, 2011
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You talk about great innovative internet companies... well refer to the article where Mr. Wozniak (not an internet company man per se` - but as close as you can get) wishes the US had what we are getting... yet people like you don't want us to have it... OMG!

I think you will find most of the large internet companies have lauded the NBN (but of course it's ok for you to use them as an example, but if the NBN uses them, Internet Co's are biased...sigh)!

Yes, I am pro-NBN through and through no doubts, because imo, it IS what Australia needs and I don't want blind, selfish, political puppets ****ing it up for everyone else - hence the so called vitriolic reactions.

Now read your last sentence it spells YOU out perfectly!

RizzRizz June 9th, 2011
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twisting harder and harder? several times now you have accused me of political bias (which i do find strange after reading your posts) which strongly suggests to me that you respond before you comprehend.

did you even read the post you responded to? or did you just dive in with your usual mud throwing?

of course internet companies are looking forward to the nbn. im looking forward to what i will be able to do with 100mbps connections.

that does not change my opinion on the govts role and methods in delivering this network. with a tax take of over $300billion a year and a cash outflow that exceeds this number it is quite obvious that the govt is not managing its finances very well. for a miserly 1.5% of its tax take over 10years the govt could build the nbn debt free - in fact it should cost a lot less than that because that is completely ignoring the revenue that will start somewhere along the way.

govts that continue to increase spending and taxes should be held accountable. leaving behind debt for future generations to repay should not be allowed. if you want to borrow money for your own spending thats your own business. when the govt borrows money its the rest of us that have to pay it back.

f.a.hayekf.a.hayek June 9th, 2011
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Sigh...

"I did not say anything about internet companies - it was brought up by another (you) and I replied" (sound familiar). But I prophesied your obviously predictable response about internet companies .

However you answered your own concerns..."for a miserly 1.5% of its tax take over 10years the govt could build the nbn debt free - in fact it should cost a lot less than that because that is completely ignoring the revenue that will start somewhere along the way".

Yes... it should... ummm so what's the problem?

Here's a little piece from the Australian (so it must be right [sic])...which talks of debt and deficit!

http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/mumble/index.php/theaustralian/comments/labors_debt_and_deficit_problem/

RizzRizz June 9th, 2011
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f.a.hayek your publication contains deep and interesting content and indeed is world wide in its reflective scope. My concerns are that the Gillard Government has embarked on a policy to return ownership (and control) of Australian business to government.

With ownership and control of the NBN, the filter of which you speak would be a natural progression and I believe, in time, entry into the Retail division of the NBN would be forthcoming. Hopefully Australian Service Providers are not sheep being led to the slaughter. With the Labor Government in a desperate situation with low voter support and the promise of a return to surplus by 2012/13 and the NBN expectation it is likely that Australia will see a change of Government in the near future. Should this happen Malcolm Turnbull will probably look to a PPP combination to save the Australian taxpayer while still delivering the Fibre Optic high speed system expected by Australians.

Finally, it will be interesting to see how the ACCC defends its decision to ban all competitors to the NBN Co, considering the ACCC is expected to be the champion of free enterprise and competition. Also, it will be fascinating to see what devious and cunning sanctions Telstra opponents call for to be placed on Telstra to restrict Telstra and advance their own financial interests. Talk around the traps are that calls will be made to restrict Telstra from spending on advertising and even (incredibly) a call that some of the money obtained from Government by Telstra for sale of its assets by given to Telstra opponents.

sydneylasydneyla June 8th, 2011
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