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Torvalds surprised by resilience of 2.6 kernel

By Munir Kotadia and Chris Duckett, ZDNet Australia on January 17th, 2007

Topics

linus torvalds, torvalds, linus, lca2007, linux, kernel, 2.6, 2.7, open source

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exclusive Linus Torvalds explains why the unexpected resilience of kernel version 2.6 has delayed the move to kernel version 2.7. In this two minute video he said that when work started on 2.6, he was worried that major changes would destabilise the kernel.

On the second day of Linux.conf.au in Sydney, Linus Torvalds revealed that he was surprised by the resilience of the 2.6 Linux kernel to "invasive" changes.

Linus Torvalds

"One of the original worries was that we would not be able to make big changes within the confines of the development model ... I always said that if there is something so fundamental that everything will break then we will start at 2.7 at that point.

"We have been able to do fairly invasive things even while not actually destabilising the kernel. It has surprised me and other people how well we have been able to do big changes that did not cause havoc.

"Sometimes it has been slightly painful," he added.

Torvalds also talked about why "unfriendly" kernel developers are making it more difficult attracting new blood. Click here to see this three minute video.

To all Linux users, this video is presented in Flash 8 and has been tested successfully for use with Linux systems running the latest Flash plug-in for Linux (ver. 9.0). Currently, this version is not available from Adobe for those running 64-bit Linux.

You'll need Macromedia Flash Player 8 or above in order to view some of our content. Download now!

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Talkback

Flash 8

Kind of ironic that your video about the linux kernel can not be watched on a computer running said kernel, since flash 8 is not available for linux...

Jack ByerJack Byer January 17th, 2007
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How about flashplayer 9?

http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/
index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=
ShockwaveFlash&P2_Platform=
Linux&P3_Browser_Version=Netscape4

AnonymousAnonymous January 17th, 2007
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Flash 8 > Flash 9

I have flash 9, and the applet still wants me to "upgrade" to flash 8.

AnonymousAnonymous January 17th, 2007
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Flash Check

Is the plug-in setup right?

What version does the below link show...

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=tn_15507

AnonymousAnonymous January 17th, 2007
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Flash Player For Linux

Actually, Flash 9 is available for Linux at www.adobe.com.

Chad SikorraChad Sikorra January 17th, 2007
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Just in time

Almost as soon as I wrote that comment, I found out that it was released today. Really that was an accident I doubt ZDNet even gave any thought at all about if this file would actually play on a linux machine.

Jack ByerJack Byer January 17th, 2007
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No flash for 64 bit Linux

There is not currently, nor does Adobe plan to release a version of flash player 9 for Linux running on x86_64 AKA 64bit Linux. I was only able to install and use the flash plugin for Linux by hacking the install script and changing the arch bit in the binary. It still refuses work properly, I can't view this site's video, but youtube works.

etteyafedetteyafed September 10th, 2007
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OK Ubuntu runs flash on 64 with nspluginwrapper

Well thats ok but an update broke both a 32bit lib (libxcomposite1) and the postinst script for flashplugin-nonfree calls nspluginwrapper -n instad of with -i pluginfile
and you need to link the plugin manually into the browser plugin directory.

etteyafedetteyafed September 10th, 2007
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Plays in Ubuntu Edgy

I can watch the video fine on Ubuntu Edgy.

about:plugins
File name: libflashplayer.so
Shockwave Flash 9.0 d78

AnonymousAnonymous January 17th, 2007
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Not True

As someone who just watched the video on Ubuntu Edgy, Firefox 2, and Flash 9, I'd have to say you just haven't configured your machine correctly.

Mark HenleMark Henle January 17th, 2007
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Not quite true

As someone who runs linux on powerpc, I'd have to say you are using x86. Adobe never released a flash plugin for linux/ppc.

AnonymousAnonymous January 18th, 2007
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Flash?!

Why is a interview with an open source programmer about open source software posted in a proprietary format?

Did I miss something?

JarodJarod January 17th, 2007
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Re: Flash?!

Don't worry, I'm sure someone at zdnet will be happy to post a .doc of the transcript. :)

Brendon HigginsBrendon Higgins January 17th, 2007
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oh well

how stupid do you have to get to force us to update a buggy piece of proprietary program in order to listen to an interview with Torvalds?

or is this some weird Adobe ad?

weird... weird...

AnonymousAnonymous January 17th, 2007
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huh?

But it wasn't released today, I've had it installed for around 2.5 months.

Michael ReillyMichael Reilly January 17th, 2007
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opps.

Ignore this improperly threaded comment, this was intended as a reply to the first thread

Michael ReillyMichael Reilly January 17th, 2007
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Huh?

He's not saying its a new kernel, he's saying it adapts well when the kernel developers make CHANGES to the source to add in new things, or fix bugs, that it has remained stable in spite rather invasive modifications made.

AnonymousAnonymous January 18th, 2007
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Agree

Yep, I'm going to have to abstain on principle. Why oh why can't all these new fangled flash based video sites be civilized and add a simple direct download link to the material? I wish the original site that linked to this article mentioned it was flash only so I didn't have to give Zdnet another click view. I won't get caught by coming to this site again.

Mark ConstableMark Constable January 17th, 2007
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You guys are kidding, right?

Are you seriously so disillusioned that you can't understand why a website that serves millions of users each day would use a format that 98% of said users' machines support, with the ability to include the video inside of the document? Until Adobe starts incorporating spy/ad-ware, I won't have a problem with Flash content.

While you're at it, name a stable, accessible, reasonable open-source alternative that can serve ZDNet's purposes.

Please, get over it!

AnonymousAnonymous January 17th, 2007
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A stable, accessible, reasonable open-source alternative that can serve ZDNet's

It's called ogg.

Is it really that hard to have a direct link to a file? Sure you may argue that that takes up extra room on ZDNet's servers etc etc, but in this case it's a linux article. Surely the person writing the article could at least provide the video in a playable by all format for linux users?

Vipul DelwadiaVipul Delwadia January 17th, 2007
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Flash can be used as spyware

Flash developers use "Persistent Identification Elements" see http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/pie.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Player

Like tracking cookies, but you can't delete them.

AnonymousAnonymous January 18th, 2007
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go get flash 9

http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz

boogerbooger January 17th, 2007
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This video is broken; next digg.org

WOFTAM?

AnonymousAnonymous January 17th, 2007
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Not invasive?!

What does he mean the changes have been non-invasive? Just the other day I was compiling something and received a warning that sysctl() has been deprecated as of 2.6.18! If that's non invasive, I want to know what _is_ invasive

AnonymousAnonymous January 18th, 2007
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IDIOT !! He said INVASIVE

He said the changes were invasive.

John SmithJohn Smith January 18th, 2007
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Invasive

He said that invasive changes were made without killing the kernel. Those changes were gradual and the developers gave months of warning before they were removed. BTW, the kernel subsytems still have compatibility with the old model to facilitate the changeover.

AnonymousAnonymous January 18th, 2007
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I cant watch it either after upgrading flash - ZDNET SUCKS

Really funny ZDNET guys!! Is this supposed to be a joke? An article about Linux that none of us can SEE, Ha hahahahahahah
Kirby

Kirby FosterKirby Foster January 18th, 2007
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flash for linux == moronic

what tool thought posting a video interview of THE Linux developer in flash format was a good idea ?

let's review:
- flash works only on x86 linux
- flash does not work on anything
- flash is garbage
- people who post video interviews of Linux developers in flash formats are tools

AnonymousAnonymous January 18th, 2007
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we're trying to sort this out

hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to write in. we're trying to sort this out and find the best possible solution as soon as possible.

please don't hesitate to contact me directly if you have more Qs.

cheers
fran
_______________________
Fran Foo
editor, zdnet.com.au
fran.foo@zdnet.com.au

Fran FooFran Foo January 18th, 2007
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Thanks, Fran

The solution is OGG.

If you want to cover free software, please provide video in the preferred F/LOSS no-spyware video.

(Of course you can also leave proprietary Flash or WMV in the article too, for Windoze users who don't want to bother with downloading a suitable player. )

Thanks

AnonymousAnonymous January 21st, 2007
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OGG

thanks mate. that's something we're investigating. one challenge is to strike a balance between copyright and multiple video formats (streaming & downloadable).

cheers
fran
_______________________
Fran Foo
editor, zdnet.com.au
fran.foo@zdnet.com.au

Fran FooFran Foo January 22nd, 2007
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Flash

They are using Flash because Linux has such a small market share that no one cares what Linux users want.

tracyannetracyanne January 18th, 2007
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video's format SUCKS

AT LEAST it should be possible to cache the video ON DISK FOR GOD SAKES!!!

someonesomeone January 18th, 2007
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Video does not cache

For us with 3rd world-eske internet connections (maybe I over exaggerate a little); playing back these videos is almost impossible; it plays a little bit and then has to cache again :(

AnonymousAnonymous January 18th, 2007
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Flash sucks

Ok cause every linux nerd wanting to watch Linus has flash installed.

AnonymousAnonymous January 23rd, 2007
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This is why Windows succeeds

Very good example of why Windows still reigns in the desktop arena...things just work. Don't get me wrong, Linux and Unix variants have their place in the world....but unless more people start doing what Apple has done with OS X, that place will never be the desktop.

AnonymousAnonymous February 8th, 2007
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Won't work on Windows either

I am Linux user and forced to use Windows here at work. Trying to view the video and nothing, the dots keep revolving for minutes but no show.

Windows Just works ? Pffhhh!!

AnonymousAnonymous February 15th, 2007
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flash killing my cpu

why while I'm watching this my firefox use 100% cpu on my ubuntu box??

ubuntoubunto February 15th, 2008
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I've forget add

that it just like IE7+Flash+XP :) Firefox+Flash+XP is ok

ubuntoubunto February 15th, 2008
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This answers a question or 2

Thanks for this video. Some of the documentation that comes with the Linux kernel recommends that you only submit small bits to a maintainer due to them having little time. It seems that the maintainers (including Linus etc) are getting much more daring. I wonder if this is more of a result of more corporate funding and a critical mass of resources available to GPL projects allowing more effecient and full-time kernel development rather than a more 'mature kernel'. I do think the kernel is very mature though.

Running openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64). Video played right "out of the box". (It is a pitty it was not the same experience on my laptop - that needed me compile a mach64 DRM module etc... come on novell, give me unstable software and module OPTIONS like the kernel does).

Adobe is no worse than other companies and flash is a good product. I generally avoid it so mobile phones etc can view content though.
http://blogs.adobe.com/open/2007/07/feel_the_love.html

-- Ben Holmes

AnonymousAnonymous March 17th, 2008
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