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There are no NBN apps: Turnbull

By Stilgherrian, ZDNet.com.au on August 15th, 2011 Follow @stilgherrian

Patch Monday

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Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has been spruiking coalition broadband policy this month. A core point, he says, is that there are no applications for National Broadband Network (NBN) speeds of 100 megabits per second (Mbps). Is he right?

On Patch Monday this week, Turnbull discusses the broadband strategy that he outlined in a speech to the National Press Club earlier this month.

Quite rightly, he says that there can be enormous cost savings if capital expenditure can be delayed.

Also quite rightly, he says Communications Minister Stephen Conroy's criticism that the coalition strategy would lead to a "patchwork internet" is irrelevant. The internet has always been a "network of networks".

But when it comes to the need for speed, our opinions differ. I think the high-bandwidth application is staring us in the face: multiple video streams, as described in the government video "At home with the NBN". Turnbull disagrees.

Turnbull also disagrees with people like "father of the internet" Vint Cerf, who think that the NBN would be a platform for innovation that'd soon pay for itself.

Broadband policy was a key issue in last year's federal election. It's bound to be a key issue in the next federal election. If nothing else, Turnbull makes clear the differences between coalition policy and Labor's NBN. It's worth listening both to this interview and to Turnbull's conversation with Phil Dobbie in last week's Twisted Wire podcast.

Patch Monday also includes my usual look at some of last week's news headlines.

To leave an audio comment on the program, Skype to stilgherrian, or phone Sydney 02 8011 3733.

Running time: 35 minutes, 22 seconds

Talkback

Oh Malcolm! DoHHH! Since when have app developers bothered to design apps for system that does not exist, I am just a layman in infotech but I would not bother to waste my time designing something to operate within the parameters of a sytem that is not established. Malcolm, I would suggest you stop looking at your Apple smartarsephone and consider that the apps that it can host were developed after the fact of its existence and not before, not only that but the concept of apps is pureley to enable the activity of wireless devices such as smart phones tablets etc. They have nothing to do with mainstream hardwired computing or communications.

BoomerMMW August 15th, 2011

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What, you want us to write applications that require 100Mbps, and then wait for it to get here? Are you *sure* you come from a business background?

meski August 15th, 2011

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Yes, savings can be made; last point of call should be places that have access to cable. I have used Bigpond Cable since day 1 (skipped dial-up altogether). In those days I thought that a monthly download allowance of 100 megs was beyond comprehension (originally Bigpon Cable had no limit but some users were doing 300 or more megs a month). Now I have 50 Gigs a month for the same price (with loyalty and other discounts, for about 25% less).

Not that a hybrid system such as Bigpond cable is perfect; there are potential bottlenecks that will not affect the NBN.

While there will no doubt be great advances in wireless technology, it is a shared resource so it cannot be expected to provide the same real world performance as fibre optic cable.

1998ian August 15th, 2011

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The Liberals "privatized" Telstra years ago and what do we have to thank for that. Copper cables - still. So it must hurt them to see someone else at least try and improve on what they didn't and seemingly don't want to do.

tony_eyles August 15th, 2011

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Dear Mal(content?),

No "apps" to use 100mbps?

OK let us assume that I have today's most modern household PC or Mac which has a LAN port capabel of 100mbps. Let us, further, assume that I use the right cable and have a hub for my home network that all my computers at home, old or new, plug into and then that into the NBN hardware and all are compatible and all the right speed.

So here I am with all that established *BUT* let us also assume that I also have made sure that all physical connections (as far as I am capable of checking through Telstra and my NBN based ISP) are also correct, up to date and wont cause any slowdown and let us also assume that in my area, I am the first of many, weeks ahead of the rest, to be on the NBN so there is only me as a drain on the NBN in that area. Best possible outcome so far.

What speed will I get in that theoretical situation? I will get whatever the hardware attached to the NBN will send through at. So, if the server for the web site I am visiting is as slow as a 1 legged dog, then I am going to drag along waiting for a site to appear and dream of the days of dial up speed when it was faster than this site loading. However, if I go to any local Australian hosted site or any fast overseas site, then those web sites will pop up correspondingly on my computer.

So what limits the speed of my connection in this theoretical example? The speed of the other end being able to compile (where necessary) and send me the answer to my request - and that is it. No "apps" written? Wake up!!

Oh and for all of you about to complain that my theoretical situation is rubbish because of NBN connections in my area, yes, the amount of users using the NBN at any one time in the same area WILL slow responses to your own computer. I know. I was just trying to set up the best possible.

No "apps written". Sheesh, Turnbull, if you are going to try and talk about the NBN, please get advice that is worth listening to and then think.

DUH!

Beaver Cleaver August 15th, 2011

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Without thinking up future iterations of social and business networking applications, which will involve various kinds of telepresence and high levels of interactivity, I can think of two primary needs for 100/40 speeds via fibre.

1. Ubiquitous cloud-based systems. Lack of high speed uploads is the single greatest barrier to widespread adoption of cloud computing (and future evolved versions). This achieves the goal of cloud computing - severing the link between geographic location and instant access to data, along with data protection and automatic backup provision.

2. Simultaneous users. Broadband for most people is like a fussy old water system where one person having a shower means nobody else can get so much as a glass of water without causing scalds or ice-water screams. Except that unlike showers, reliable water (data) flow is needed all day at any time. Right now, if my kids are using Wifi, I'm downloading documents for work, and my wife is trying to connect to the Uni system on her iPad, the whole thing breaks down. Everyone is unhappy, and we have to negotiate who gets to use the bandwidth, and who has to wait.

And those two are just the ones that are relevant now. If anyone imagines that data use will not continue to grow at very rapid rates, for a whole variety of purposes, and that RELIABLE systems become more and more important -- well, then, that's your primary argument against investing money for a future-proof solution.

Imagine having a business which required you to be highly mobile, where a car is the essential tool for getting to your clients or delivering products. And imagine if the only car you could get (without expending vast sums) was something that kept breaking down, would run inexplicably slowly at times, and was simply unavailable because your family kept needing it to make side trips.

Would you even try to run your business like that? Or if you did, you would have to keep your service standards low, because you simply couldn't promise a high level of reliability to your clients. And all this would greatly hamper your ability to grow and develop your business beyond a low-yield cottage industry.

Gwyntaglaw August 15th, 2011

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Sure I want I new Porsche so I can drive to work faster. I could try to justify this on the basis of time saving i.e. increased productivity? Right? YES...provided I earn $1000 per hour. NO if I earn $20 per hour. The Coalitions policy is not unreasonable and it is flexible. As was said in the interview there are so many competing interests..and have, up until now got to where we are without the government building a thing.

sachmodog August 15th, 2011

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A Porsche won't get you to work any faster if it keeps breaking down, needs to be rebooted every 2 minutes, etc etc. It's the reliability and dependability of the car, not the fanciness. Any car sold now will drive the speed limit.

"..and have, up until now got to where we are without the government building a thing"

I had to dry the tears from my face after laughing so hard at this...

Gwyntaglaw August 15th, 2011

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I admit that was a bit of a dig - so I'll have another. The likelihood is that NBN higher speeds will only be taken up 50-60% of households. And that's probably best case after heaps of time. As for the rest, they either won't want/need it or won't be able to afford higher speed. Meantime on completion, 50% obsolescence will have already kicked. But that's okay, the thing can be flogged off (at a loss) to some sucker. After that legislate the sucker out of existence.

sachmodog August 15th, 2011

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50%-60% adoption rate? I'm assuming you're talking internet adoption not those that will have FttH (which will end up being 93%). Based on the latest statistics Australia currently has just under 20% DSL users. Including cable users another 4% and we're just under 25% of the population that have broadband internet in Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_broadband_Internet_users

Oh and a 50-60% adoption rate in 15-20 years is more than likely considering the at use at home by age graph:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Australia

Here's a suggestion instead of sitting there and pulling numbers out of thin air and spreading BS, why don't you don't you educate yourself a bit...

fasolatha August 15th, 2011

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Firstly Fasolatha I only spread B S on my garden. The estimate was reasonable - and was based on 50- 60% of households. I made no reference to BB users (i.e. your wiki quoted 23.4% of Australians or 5,167,000 as at June 2010). While the time period was not stated directly, the context was 10-20 years (see also 10 to 20 yr obsolescence). Fasolatha skirm, and insinuate B S, but you are no where on this point.

sachmodog August 15th, 2011

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So you are saying that only 50-60% households will have the NBN? I'd like a source please unless this is your opinion and if that's the case please refer to the BS statement.

Last time I checked 93% were scheduled to get FttP while the rest were on wireless.

fasolatha August 16th, 2011

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Let me spell it out for you fasolotha. Out of the 93% of households which will have NBN delivered, 50-60% of those households will take up the higher priced/higher speed (~100 Mbit/s) option on or about by the completion of the NBN (i.e. in about 10 years or so). That is a reasonable estimate.

sachmodog August 16th, 2011

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In your opinion.

So as fasolatha said...

Rizz August 16th, 2011

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Go look at the Australian government's NBN Study.

Chapter 4, Page 239 details adoption rates in other countries (countries with very established fibre networks).

E.g. South Korea - total households passed 92%, total uptake of households passed 39%.

Japan - total households passed 93%, total uptake of of household passed 32%.

These are the only significant figures (from mature rollouts).

They estimate a year on year growth rate of 6% to 12% (which is very broad range). They don't qualify how that growth is calculated.

Either way - 39% is the best uptake amount thus far in the internet poster country South Korea. I love how they use their optic fibre network - StarCraft anyone?

So you all rightly called out sachmodog on this - the figure was way too generous at about 160% the uptake of Japan and South Korea.

And a link to the study:

http://www.dbcde.gov.au/broadband/national_broadband_network/national_broadband_network_implementation_study

harlequinn August 17th, 2011

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Or wiki...

Japan: FTTP, often called FTTH in Japan, was first introduced in 1999, and did not become a large player until 2001. In 2003-2004, FTTH grew at a remarkable rate, while DSL's growth slowed. 10.5 million FTTH connections are reported as of September 2007 in Japan. Currently, many people are switching from DSL to FTTH, the use of DSL is decreasing, with the peak of DSL usage being March 2006. On September 17, 2008, Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications reported that for the first time, the number of FTTH connections (13.08 million connections) eclipsed that of DSL (12.29 million connections) and became the biggest means of broadband connection in Japan at 45% of total compared to that of DSL at 42%. In the report, the number of FTTH connections grew by 929,681 during the period of March to June 2008 while the number of DSL connections declined by 420,706 during the same period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_country

Seems it's like Pantene, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen!

Rizz August 17th, 2011

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The numbers wikipedia quoted can't be directly compared to the ones from the NBN Study that I quoted. The higher numbers shown by wikipedia are as a percentage of total connections, not of possible connections from a given technique (i.e. penetration rate) as I've quoted above.

The penetration/uptake amount was the topic being argued.

Still, it's useful to know the total uptake rate as a comparison to other techniques. Eventually their FTTH will probably dominate totally and with an expansion to FTTN.

Adding to what you've quoted, the NBN Study shows the 2009 total connected as 15 million (up from 13 million in 2008). This equates to 30% of all Japanese households having a FTTH connection. Two million in 1 year, not bad.

harlequinn August 17th, 2011

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I take your point entirely harlequinn...

The two things that struck me in Wiki however, were -

1. The turnaround with FTTP taking over (without knowing price comparison to DSL etc). DSL may (purely hypothetically - I don't know) be markedly cheaper, but yet FTTP is still overtaking.

2. The fact while we (Australia, not you and I) argue over political ideologies, Japan already have FTTP and started rolling it out "last century (millennium, LOL)!

Yes Japan is significantly smaller with a seriously larger population I know, making it an ultimately all round easier and less costly task, but interesting none-the-less!

Cheers.

Rizz August 17th, 2011

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I actually would love to have FTTN. I think it's a great idea.

Even though Japan already has fibre we are still very advanced in our telecommunications structure. We're a lot better than most of the rest of the world.

If FTTN rolls past my house I'll see it as a privilege and not a right.

I'd love to have totally free of charge VOIP Australia wide. VOIP that works too (I've tried a few different adaptors and they've all been mediocre at best).

Totally free peer to peer data transfer Australia wide. So I can share stuff with my siblings and friends with my PC acting as server. And it means I can access all my data through anyone else's account without penalisation to their account.

All the other stuff is gravy (for my exhaustive part tongue in cheek, part serious list look below).

:)

harlequinn August 17th, 2011

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Note: I didn't write it clearly. Free VOIP and free peer to peer data are things I'd love to have from the NBN.

I won't be holding my breath about getting them.

harlequinn August 17th, 2011

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harlequinn wrote Re Voip:
(I've tried a few different adaptors and they've all been mediocre at best).

I use a Linksys fallback VOIP adapter on the Mynetfone service through my ISP & find the voice quality is a 100% improvement on what I achieved through my regular landlines ( I have 2 lines) despite the local exchange limiting me to a 1Gbps ADSL1 service.

grump3 August 18th, 2011

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Thank you you arguing even more so that the NBN cannot be justified.

sachmodog August 19th, 2011

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The NBN is HIGHLY affordable, take your standard Telstra line bill per month (normal household probably about 200 if not more), now move to VOIP which costs about 30 a moth at most (go nuts chat for as long as you like). now look at the price of the NBN, take 180 per month (over the top Internode pricing).

ADSL2+:
Internet: 50 per month (rubbish connection is some part of the country)
Phone: 200 per month

250 per month.

NBN:
Internet: 180 per month (again over the top)
Phone: 30 per month
Total 210 -------> ITS CHEAPER.

Under the NBN VOIP becomes simple for users to access. The standardised network means that the settings remain the same no matter what ISP your using. Call the VOIP provider, they send you a box, plug it in and away you go. At the moment its call the VOIP company, get a box, stuff around with some things that most common people dont give a fig about and then give up.

Yettie79 August 15th, 2011

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Are you suggesting the average household spends $200 per month on fixed line telephone? Where did you get that figure from?IMO you are dreaming if you think the average household in Australia can afford to pay upwards of $100 per month for NBN plans - (Internode quoting 100Mbps/30GB/$100 per month, 100Mbps/300GB/$140 per month, and 100Mbp/1TB/$190 per month). I believe that for some time to come majority of households will go for low speed options at about $50 or $60 per month. On this basis the NBN is a big expensive and selective joke. Australians needs the $30 billion for other needs. i.e. water infrastructure/green power infrastructure/disability. Time to stop thinking its all about media download times.

sachmodog August 16th, 2011

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Hi Sachmodog, how is life as a coalition staffer? Do they pay well mate?? >;))

Ocker August 15th, 2011

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Hey Ocker you're pretty quick there with the bang bang.

sachmodog August 15th, 2011

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And 2 days on, you are pretty slow with a rebuttal, which is quite telling!

Yettie79 probably got his/her figures from the same place you did, so what makes your opinion/figures any more credible or valid?

As for $30B for this or that, yes agreed those things are needed!

But whether there is or isn't an NBN the budgetary allocations for other necessities has and will not change. And although I'm not sure about their funding arrangements, I'd suggest the same budgetary allocations won't change with the oppositions NBN plan either!

So let's hear you bag them now...! If not, fel free to revisit Ocker's comment above ;-)

Rizz August 17th, 2011

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By all means extrapolate...

1. "Residential Fibre Subscriber Split by AVC Speed Tiers"
http://www.nbnco.com.au/assets/documents/nbn-co-3-year-gbe-corporate-plan-final-17-dec-10.pdf.

2. “Internet Activity, Australia, Dec 2010”
Note: 45.50% of BB/users are presently using highest 2 of 5 speed categories (8Mbps +). Only 9.25% BB/users using highest single category (24Mbps +). http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/8153.0

3. The NBN Business Plan presupposes there will be no significant uptake of speeds above 250 Mbps until ~ 2020 and after.

...then form your own opinion.

sachmodog August 17th, 2011

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LOL...wow, the NBN Corporate plan/Business case eh?

1.Yes I have read the corporate plan (and biz case), not too sure what you are vaguely alluding to, but go your hardest tiger. As such, all I can say is, I suppose you were one who bagged these NBN docs when they came out, but now wish to hand pick small bits only, which apparently suit, just like your sound-a-likes do?

FYI - the biz case says the NBN will pay itself off by 2034! So since you use NBNCo docs as your basis, you must ergo agree?

Well do you agree?

2. And are better speeds available???? It's a bit like your clones comparing TPG's cheap ADSL2+ unlimited plan or HFC to the NBN. I can get neither TPGs plan nor HFC (and never will) and I am on the outskirts of the urban sprawl. May as well be comparing my (and most like me) plan to Korea or Japan.

In fact I am on a 20Mbps plan and receive 5.7! But interesting that you honed in on 24Mpbs as your next step up...LOL?!

3. 250Mbps... priceless and what is your precious Coalition offering by 2020? In fact the Corporate plan says (approx.) 32Mbps is required by 2012 (again I am on 5.7 and look it's 2011) and 162Mbps by 2025. And again since you swear by the NBNCo docs, it must be right!

Yes my opinion is now formed (set in concrete), I agree wholeheartedly with Ocker!

Rizz August 17th, 2011

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The NBN is a joke. Hey Rizz take a break and go do something useful.

sachmodog August 19th, 2011

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@sachmodog = Liberal Party troll.

Yoda7 August 19th, 2011

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Malcolm would do well to observe what we are currently developing in our universities. CUDOS is a research body at the University of Sydney and they are well on their way to having a network switch that processes signals based on light instead of electronics. Also Intel have developed the Thunderbolt technology. These technologies will provide maximum data transfer with fibre networks.

When this technology is available to us, developers will no doubt exploit it. Graphics based development languages like Microsoft's WPF will be the norm instead of resorting to the smaller Silverlight technology.

It's bewildering that a communications minister has the view that innovation will cease from now on? The difference between Turnbull and Conroy is that, Conroy knows he has limited knowledge of computer systems and therefore gains advice from experts. Whereas Turnbull is making decisions based on his own knowledge and expectations. This is how dictatorships function...

omega August 15th, 2011

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How about ANY small business with more than two people.

The 'killer app' for them IS the NBN as it enables them to be viable for 1/10 the communications overhead than currently exists. And we are talking about business upload speeds here.

The trouble is that Turnbull et al have never had to consider what communication overheads SMBs endure, as they and their campaign contributors have been invoved in large enterprises that can amortise communication costs over many employees. How many of them could actually run a small business from what they think are workable broadband rates that we should all be happy with.

History has taught us in Australia that while some individuals have attempted to get some form of infrastructure going (rail or whatever), it has been massive government involvement that has brought us the large scale, enduring facilities upon which we now rely.

Patanjali August 15th, 2011

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sachmodog ;
You & Allbull have missed the point altogether.
This isn't about which vehicle you can afford but the supply of decent roads upon which to use your vehicle to drive on at your chosen speed.
For many of us our present dirt tracks wont allow us to drive to work at all during wet weather & I'm sure your Porsche wouldn't exist either without Governments having first provided suitable sealed roads.

grump3 August 15th, 2011

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Hey Grump3 - IMO the same principle could applies to a highway i.e. 10 lane vs 20 lane. Then what about if we can add on to the 10 lane later? And Mr. Allbull is not saying he won't build node to the house (eventually). He's saying listen all you 100 MB junkies...get fibre to the node 1st, lets lets ride this thing a bit and see. Why is everyone so damn impatient? Anyway go buy 2 ADSL lines!

sachmodog August 15th, 2011

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Thats part of the problem. If you build FTTN first, and let it ride along to see what happens, that FTTN needs to get ripped out when you are forced to go to FTTH. The technology being discussed as the FTTN option isnt compatible with FTTH.

As for 100 Mb junkies, well I personally have about 15 devices in my house all capable of networking, and seem to add more every other month. I'm sure I'm not alone. Point being, we have a bigger and bigger need for bandwidth, and less and less desire from the big providers to build on the system.

If NBN wasnt part of the big discussion, Bigpond and co wouldnt be looking forwards to FTTN or FTTH any time soon, and again thats part of the problem - private enterprise has gotten us to where we are, and for a significant portion of the population, thats ended up being a bad thing.

Gav August 15th, 2011

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15 devices - well no offence Gav but might be time to get out more! FTTN - ripped out that's not what old Allbull says. In any case, generally cities are not the issue - FTTH is viable because of guys like you GAV. Dark Fibre networks are being built NOW in competition to Telstra and NBN linked to Data centres for big cloud. So what's the problem? The country is the problem. How is much of that is going to fixed by NBN? Not much mostly wireless. So where is the equality of Conroy's great system.

sachmodog August 15th, 2011

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I acknowledge that the dark fibre roll outs are for commercial use.

sachmodog August 15th, 2011

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No offence taken sachmodog. As it is, I get out plenty, I just like tech toys for when I'm at home, and it just happens that those toys often have network functionality.

The point wasnt about the number of devices I personally own, but how there are more and more in just about every house.

I live in an area considered country, and have 1 corner between my place and the nearest exchange. I am lucky to get 6 Mps connection on ADSL2. In a city of 300k, thats unacceptable. I've also lived in places where Telstra and Optus chased each other down the street (literally - they were 2 days apart), and places where even wireless is scratchy at best. In a city of 4 million, the disparity between the two is also unacceptable.

End of the day, the privately developed network we have now is broken. And no single company, or group of companies, are going to fix the problem - they'll just keep putting more bandaids and duct tape on. They cant fix it, not when they have shareholders to consider, so some other source needs to do it.

Its a problem thats been growing since the mid 90's, and if its not done now, its going to cost $100b when its inevitably needed in a decade.

Gav August 15th, 2011

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sachmodog.
Actually, I've already gone to the expense of having two lines here, one with Telstra, the other with Dodo & Telstra informs me there are no more ports in their exchange so the best I can get is an erratic ADSL1 service on just the one line. (in dry weather).

BTW, I's a lot more efficient (& cheaper in the long term) to do the job properly in the first place rather than having to go back time & again with tack-ons when demand exceeds supply. Turnbull's fantasy is to invite private Enterprise to build a 2-lane Harbour Bridge & hopefully add those extra 20 lanes only if required as the present (wireless) ferries are quite adequate for now!

grump3 August 15th, 2011

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There are no apps available for my 25 year old Amstrad.

bernard4 August 15th, 2011

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Politics has never been able to keep up with social change, so how can we expect it to keep up with Technology? I re-iterate (yet again) that aiming for 100 Mb/s is short sighted and will be way out of date by the time they get around to implementing it. Hard drives and bandwidth are just like garages. The more space there is, the faster the junk accumulates to fill it.

As for "apps", they already exist: Real Time Online Gaming. I've little to no time for these "apps" but, I've seen them in action. Greater speed may not make that much difference right now, but significantly reducing the lag-time will definitely boost the service to these users.

Video streaming is definitely going to start clogging up the system as fast as it can handle it. What happens when several thousand users on my "node" want to watch the Olympics, and lowly little me wants to watch something a little more cerebral?

If the NBN is to be a serious "forward investment" then it needs a back-bone in Petabits aiming to deliver Gigabits to the door.

Treknology August 15th, 2011

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"There are no apps"

Yes this old chestnut, the one that Turnbull keeps regurgitating but fails to realise is a totally bogus argument.

The problem with this logic is you can go around in circles forever with "Well we don’t need to build a FTTH network because there are no apps" and then "Well we cant do that because our network cant handle it" etc

Basically every idea can and will be shot down based on this. Why don’t you just use dial-up? Why do you need email when you can just send a letter? The anti-NBN crusaders will say something like "But those services can happen on the existing infrastructure, no need to build something new" yes that is true but they would never of happened if we never came up with things like stage coaches, trains and the original copper network... the one they are using now and take for granted, isn’t it funny how the speeds they currently get just happen to be the right amount? "No one needs more than Xmbps because I have Xmbps and I can do everything I need to do blah blah blah" they'll say… when the NBN is built and the rest of the world has FTTH that is something else they’ll take for granted, they’ll make use of whatever conveniences that arise from it but they wont be the ones saying “I sure am glad we build this FTTH now!” They won’t even acknowledge it, they’ll be oblivious to it all just as they are now…

I could list a number of things that would benefit from 100mbps and greater download speeds right now but that to me is irrelevant, it's not about the download, it's about the upload and devices are not only getting more data hungry but people are increasingly wanting to upload data quicker, be it photos, videos for YouTube or backups etc. It's also about providing a standard to as many people as possible. This is simply impossible to achieve with the coalitions patchwork plan.

Hubert Cumberdale August 15th, 2011

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"I could list a number of things that would benefit from 100mbps and greater download speeds right now"

Hey, I'll help out:

Better (lower) latency in games.
Digital content downloading faster. E.g. music, movies, photos, OS updates, torrents, porn, games, programs (apps).
Watching multiple channels of HD Youtube at once with no buffering.
Uploading my data to the internets - oh yeah, cloud that data.
Running out of ideas...
HD video conferencing. Because everyone I know video conferences (actually, just about everyone I know has video call capable phones and computers + internet connections right now and nobody uses them - that will all change when I tell them they can do it as a conference call in HD).
Free to air TV!!!!
Digital Radio...

They all seem pretty lame really.

I'll play my wild cards:

Delivery of scientific data from the Square Kilometer Array telescope to the nearest supercomputer. http://www.skatelescope.org/ If we win the bid that is.

Better use of idle computer resources in households to make a massive supercomputer (similar to Folding at Home, etc. but with a phat pipe of love connecting it to the interwebs).

And last but not least...

Multiple streams of high definition porn.

Anyone got extra ideas?

harlequinn August 17th, 2011

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There are some apps, but they are only ideas...

eg.
1- remote working / telecommuting
2- ehealth
3- education
4- cloud computing

only thing is, you can do this all adequately with FTTN, at 1/10th the cost. FTTH is likely to blow out in budget, the work is too great and we dont have the capability at present to do such major work in our network, given the state of telecommunications today.

I think NBNCo has waaaaay overshot the economies of scale mark. What they are trying to convince us of is that you need to spend THIS MUCH, to get these benefits, but said value benefits could have been attained for 10th of the said PRICE.

So for a large port of this "yield vs. spend" curve remains remains flat after a inital sharp rise in productivity, but is flat when the horizontal axis reaches around the 6-8Bn dollar mark.

That is what you call OVERSPEND.

SOMEYOUNGGUY August 18th, 2011

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Its 1895 and the height of the Victorian Age and our current plans for narrow cobblestone streets are fine because there are no current vehicles that need anything better ... plus if a horse is good enough for me and my wife why do these young whipper-snappers need anything faster anyway ...

.. oh wait ....

clannaghe August 15th, 2011

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A component of the Infrastructure usually comes first just as "roads" came before cars. Cars were developed to take advantage of the available poor quality roads and the roads developed to allow vehicular traffic greater advantage and capability. Communications links have improved dramatically with the advent of consumer computing and the Internet. The NBN is the next evolution of communication networks in Australia. Infrastructure is always expensive and the innovation of what we do with it pays for the infrastructure and drives us forward.
Political grandstanding will always reduce effect and introduce inefficiency. You gotta love polies

Pominoz August 15th, 2011

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Oh Dear,
Malcolm I really thought you would stand by the common sense that made your wealth.
Our small business operates a online/Mail order operation,15 years ago when we started the internet was a real Baby and all our competitors said online sales would never impact bricks and mortar Shops.
A lot of work and now we hold a lot of control of our sales in our industry,now we pay over $200/month for patchy slow Satellite with a Max 24 GB download.
Wake up Australia,If I dont spend a fortune on Slow outdated Satellite with downloads that dont allow us to operate I could employ extra staff!
We are 12Km from a Major Town and Highway,not the outback!!!

I would kill for the basic level of service most take for granted.
Cheers Andrew

Andrew Aussie August 15th, 2011

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I have a fairly standard household with two people. I have 1 xbox, 2 laptops, a connected pvr, an (in progress) IPTV, 2 smartphones and can only imagine that the number of our connected devices will increase over time. Now look at that list, it's not really that out of control is it? Fairly normal for most people i know. Each of those devices (half for work and half for pleasure) take a portion of that 100 megs. So you don't actually get a hundred downstream, you get a percentage of that hundred depending on how many of your devices are active. Just wanted to get that out there. Im still confused as to whether Turnbull is honestly incapable of understanding the tech behind this, or just playing bulls&^t politics.

Wolfie August 15th, 2011

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Perhaps Mr Turnbull should have been watching his leader Mr Abbott broadcast via broadband from the Liberal Party in WA, the connection kept breaking up as Mr Abbott was telling us why we don't need the NBN.

sdabel August 16th, 2011

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Please share the link

sachmodog August 16th, 2011

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LOL it just happened again. They had to end the conference it was so bad. No great loss I think people are becoming quite jaded to these appearances with "the common man" Abbott and his zoo crew will have to come up with something a bit more substantial over the next two years.

Hubert Cumberdale August 17th, 2011

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I had to dry the tears from my face after laughing so hard at this...

swayaminfotech August 17th, 2011

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Also mind you, as shown on four corners, FTTN/HFC can easily provide upload speeds for the example you were talking about (VDSL can easily do 50/50, you can already get 60/60 NZ, and HFC can do those upload speeds for the same reasons)

deteego August 19th, 2011

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My HFC only gets 1 MB up and I'm on the top plan...plus it's been really flakey of late :/

Just another example of why Australia is ranked 20th and sinking fast on the broadband quality survey http://newsroom.cisco.com/press-release-content?type=webcontent&articleId=5742339

tinman_au August 22nd, 2011

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Living on the Mornington Penninsula, I can pay for faster broadband if I want to. I currently have 1.5Mb which isn't enough when two kids, one wife and I all want to use apps. However, as there are no DSL2 or HFC outlets within 12km of there, the current speed upgrade price is $250K for a new DSLAM in the exchange - slightly more than my monthly budget for internet.

In this neighbourhood there would be more than 10,000 houses - plenty of fodder for competition in services. Why aren't the telco's competing for our business?

Karl.geppert August 23rd, 2011

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