Silent victims thwart cybercops: Qld Police

Police could pursue more online criminals if more victims reported the crimes committed against them, according to one of Australia's highest-profile investigators.

"Probably less than 1 per cent of computer crimes are reported to police," said Detective Superintendent Brian Hay, head of the Fraud and Corporate Crime Group of the Queensland Police Service.

However, businesses are reluctant to become involved. "The last thing they want is the police taking their file servers away to perform a forensic analysis, to seize and examine the logs to find the intrusions or compromises for offenders in another country that may never even be brought to justice," he said.

Hay believes this reluctance goes back to the internet's historical roots. "It commenced as a science and military tool. They didn't want the coppers involved. Then it's exploited by academic institutions. They didn't want the coppers involved either. The commercial world saw the opportunities to make money from the internet. And they too didn't want the boys and girls in blue being involved," he said. "But when the internet became a place to make money, it wasn't just the commercial environment that piqued its interest. The organised criminal world also saw opportunities. And by the way, they didn't want to talk to the coppers either."

Hay's comments came during his entertaining presentation to the AusCERT information security conference. Entitled "Mythbusters", it ridiculed the fictional police work we see on TV.

"They're immediately accessing 47 different jurisdictional databases, constructed 12 offender suspect profiles, and found out that he's just bought a packet of Cheezels at the Baltimore 7-Eleven store earlier that morning, not yet finished, they do an online access to the local Baltimore council database, retrieve the recorded files for the CCTV footage across the road from the 7-Eleven store, play them back, and from a piece of blurry footage utilise photo-enhancement software to generate clear photo blow-ups that'll run through their special facial recognition systems and then, within 2.5 seconds, their suspect's criminal mugshot appears from nowhere. Magic," he said.

Hay said it's a myth that the police know how to investigate all computer crimes, that police share information with other law enforcement agencies, and that police will hunt down overseas offenders and bring them to account. "Reality? Generally speaking, our skill levels and knowledge are behind that of the criminals ... We do lack effective and efficient sharing mechanisms commensurate with the speed of the cyber environment," he said. "Australia is a victim country, and we do not have the necessary international treaties and legal frameworks in place to facilitate many overseas prosecutions."

Other myths busted included the idea that crimes are always solved in 43 minutes plus commercials without any paperwork, that detectives can "saunter into any premises without [a] warrant", and that warrants can be obtained in seconds rather than hours.

"You know when they're really onto something because out comes the trusty pen, which is used to infect the crime scene and cross-contaminate the evidence. That pen seems to have several uses except one: taking notes," Hay said. "Complicated crime scenes can take days to process. Detectives do not handle crime scene evidence, and extensive notes are taken."

Talkback

Two problems:

First, the time. If I'm a business owner, I may not neccessarily mind a few days so the police can investigate. A week, maybe. But the fact is that I have seen business cases take months and months of investigation, and they will keep your server/pc/whatever for that entire length of time without returning your possessions. fun fun.

Secondly, the fact that they HAVE to take the original storage devices, and everything that they are in. For instance, if something happens that is traceable via your pc, they will take the pc. They won't just take the hard drives, they won't just make a copy of the data and bring it back to you, they will take your entire system. For a business, the theft/damage would often have to equate to multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars for them to be interested in this route - and I would wager that a lot of cyber criminals know and understand this to be the case.

BaneAuBaneAu May 18th, 2011
Report offensive content Reply (+2) (0)

Perhaps the police should have a look at their own procedures then? As they mention in the article, if a crime is reports the police will take away the victims computers as evidence. That's hardly an incentive to report these crimes. It's time the police stopped being so inefficient and corrupt in these matters.

moonheadmoonhead May 18th, 2011
Report offensive content Reply (+1) (-2)

I have dealt with police regarding Cyber-crime on three different occasions.

1. I was approached to attempt to hack into kiddie-porn files that were encrypted under PGP. Sorry, PGP very deliberately does not have back-door access. I'll need the original hard drive to see if I can reconstruct the evidence from any temporary files that may have persisted after viewing. "Oh no. We don't have the hard drive but we have a CD image of the drive." Sorry again. That is useless because it won't have copied "blank" sectors.

2. Someone sent me an 'innocent' picture file. Half an hour later I got an email receipt from PayPal for $300 web hosting. There are two factors of embarrassment here:
a) I fell for it when I should have known better;
b) Do I really want to talk to the police about being scammed via a GAY dating site and put up with all the smirking and behind-my-back innuendo?

3. A now ex-relative had a computer in his bedroom because there was nowhere suitable to set it up in a parental-watch location. As he spent all his time on Warcraft and such crap, the computer was regularly scanned for inappropriate material, and none was found. [Actual events deleted because of legality.] He's been busted anyway and the police HAD to be called. I had already started data-recovery because the incriminating material was deleting itself. So when the police turned up to seize the computer, I gave them detailed instructions of what I was doing, where I was up to, and what had to be connected where to ensure that no other data was lost. Of course, police forensics knew more than I did and they lost any and all evidential data. It took many months of legal wrangling to get the machine back, and had there been any business involved $thousands would have been lost. I was being punished for HIS misuse of MY property----just like "AFACT" vs iiNet !!!

Let's face it. The only reason that people even bother to report a Break and Enter is so they can submit their insurance claim. There's certainly no expectation that your goods will be recovered.

TreknologyTreknology May 18th, 2011
Report offensive content Reply (0) (0)
Add your opinion

In order to post a comment, you need to be registered. (Sign In or register below)

Post your comment

Terms of Service - As a ZDNet registrant, and by using this service, you indicate that you agree to our Terms and Conditions and have read and understand our Privacy Policy.

Tech Blueprint

ZDNet Australia Live

Before accusing me of fudging the figures, that was the percentage in April, the latest available. It seems that as the advantage of the ...

1 hour ago by GregoryB1 on NBN FUD: will Abbott ever learn?

Currently about 50% of connections are at the 100Mb/s rate.
As a consequence, ARPU is significantly higher than the projected figures.

1 hour ago by GregoryB1 on NBN FUD: will Abbott ever learn?

Currently about 50% of connections are at the 100Mb/s rate.
As a consequence, ARPU is significantly higher than the projected figures.

1 hour ago by GregoryB1 on NBN FUD: will Abbott ever learn?

Wireless currently carries less than 2% of total internet data traffic. Simply to carry the existing traffic, we would need 50 times the ...

1 hour ago by GregoryB1 on Blowing the digital dividend on wireless NBN

The stupidest part about a wireless solution for the burbs is that it will actually cost more to put an antenna on the roof to get the si...

2 hours ago by GregoryB1 on Blowing the digital dividend on wireless NBN

The problem is not range of the cell in the urban areas where Turnbull wants LTE instead of fibre, it is the number of users. In urban ar...

2 hours ago by GregoryB1 on Blowing the digital dividend on wireless NBN

After the Second World War, the pursuit of pleasure domains the entire world atmosphere, Lancel (Lancel) to adapt rapidly into the demand...

3 hours ago by PokArrackpask on Spam sees Westnet blocked by BigPond

RT @DellEnterprise: Dell Secureworks talks with ZDNet about Android's biggest #security flaws - http://t.co/LSFLQVFq #infosec

NBN users opt for 100Mbps: Customers are picking the top fibre plan that is available on the National Broadband ... http://t.co/sjtFSU3g

"Customers are picking the top fibre plan that is available on the National Broadband Network (NBN), more than a... http://t.co/M3P24Htn

Another thing I found so misleading here is the step on how you assume to make the USB bootable . (The NTLDR needs to be renamed to USBNT...

4 hours ago by WindowsAnalyzer on Boot Windows XP from a USB flash drive

You can also use the help of these links, just incase your stuff failed, I probably got Windows build by using the Pebuilder as per the i...

4 hours ago by WindowsAnalyzer on Boot Windows XP from a USB flash drive

RT @CorrieB: An iPad for every child: Inevitable or impossible? http://t.co/I7uS8l9s Thx to @timbuckteeth for this; http://t.co/jxkqIRIp

RT @MADinMelbourne: roxon "will enable more families to access credit" @MLolderandwiser: Privacy Act amendments http://t.co/Mv4c7PC2 via @zdnetaustralia

NBN users opt for 100Mbps - ZDNet Australia http://t.co/fLfHMzPn #australia #technews

RT @konradski: Whaddayaknow - turns out Wi-Fi CAN interfere with a plane's navigation systems http://t.co/ospQCU2S

This story has been voted 5 times in the last 24 hours!

8 hours ago, NBN's Tassie upgrade to cost $1.3 million

Sorry no deal Cinders, I'd rather send my money to someone and watch them desperately try to stop the NBN as this has much better enterta...

8 hours ago by Hubert Cumberdale on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

What else can you expect from a Dodo customer?

8 hours ago by Hubert Cumberdale on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

NBN users opt for 100Mbps - Communications - News - ZDNet Australia: NBN users opt for 100Mbps - Communications ... http://t.co/btB9gKWg

NBN users opt for 100Mbps http://t.co/xKqEb4bE via @zdnetaustralia

Biometric bugs too dangerous for public? http://t.co/8JLz5tdF via @zdnetaustralia

Oh please dont be unkind, I gotta have some fan's. btw I agree I dont set the standard, but who does I wonder?

10 hours ago by Doubt on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

You agree but give him thumbs down... I think you'd better take the medication before one of your alter ego's Fred/Frank/Frergers appear...

10 hours ago by Beta on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

Exploring: http://t.co/rT7RPZLA

+1

10 hours ago by Beta on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

War talk dominates #AusCERT 2012 - http://t.co/SlBpMj0c - #security #cyber

So we agree it was a stupid idea and even stupider comment then ;-)

10 hours ago by Beta on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

Not you obviously ;-)

And stop giving yourself thumbs up FFS.

10 hours ago by Beta on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

Ok Beta, understand now, just one point who sets the standard?

11 hours ago by Doubt on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

Oh no Beta you misunderstand me. I like my waterfront home and deep water jetty, it's those "other" people who can move to Willunga.

11 hours ago by Doubt on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

I agree with you Magnus, but really most people like living on the coastal fringe.

11 hours ago by Doubt on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

Travel Tech Q&A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray http://t.co/vYexrDwu #ipad

Exploring: http://t.co/YNVjdrct

Exploring: Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray: Ewan Gray, Skyscanner's director for Asia ... http://t.co/bNLCyobv #ICTChallenge

Exploring: Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray: Ewan Gray, Skyscanner's director for Asia ... http://t.co/HEPuJgyt #ICTChallenge

#NewSouthWales ditches registration stickers 4 light #vehicles in favour of #technology http://t.co/xX5N0Rp9

Another use is city based top surgeons using 8K resolution monitors to provide real-time assistance to country surgeons and doctors to op...

11 hours ago by Magnus on NBN users opt for 100Mbps

Anonymous hacks Reliance's Internet filtering server - ZDNet (blog) http://t.co/uObU1HBP http://t.co/0UBXxwX4

Which Windows will make for a better tablet? http://t.co/4mAHg850

Listening to @stilgherrian cover AusCERT and cyberwar, http://t.co/6lGUEz8H

Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray http://t.co/VN5tGJzC

#Westpac Board goes paperless with #Ipads with #Tabula #App http://t.co/duxuj2fd #Cybersecurity #Bank

Microsoft is serious about open source??? http://t.co/mqQGgta7

@joedamato just try varying caps randomly. Maybe they do this http://t.co/1FN5FwYv

NSW outlines datacentre migration plans - Hardware - News - ZDNet Australia http://t.co/OQfUl0D1

"on the new fast Internets everyone wants the fast plan" #orly #nareally #yarly http://t.co/kvfCa84A

Chrome overtakes IE: does it matter? http://t.co/e4SILk8a

A ZDNet study showed that British Facebook users are drunk in 76 percent of their photos.

The HDMI cable ripoff and why retail is really dying http://t.co/eFT7zEW7

Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray http://t.co/IUysbyKf

Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray http://t.co/V7vL5QB9

ZDNet reports Microsoft launches its own social service http://t.co/VJS5BkwF

by http://t.co/vmlLt4bh: Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray: Ewan Gray, Skyscanner's director for Asia P... http://t.co/4bfDRXo4

Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray http://t.co/CtNlVWN7

Travel Tech Q and A: Skyscanner's Ewan Gray: Ewan Gray, Skyscanner's director for Asia Pacific, shares some of h... http://t.co/ZxjpmqiM

This story has been voted 12000 times in the last 24 hours!

2 days ago, Is Bill Gates a great leader?

Facebook Activity

Keep up with ZDNet Australia

ZDNet Events Calendar

ZDNet Events Calendar