ACCC exposes punting software program

ZDNet Australia Staff

10 August 2001 11:33 AM

Tags: accc, punt, program, injunction, bet, promoter, accused

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has accused the promoters of a horserace betting software program of misleading punters into a no-win situation.

The Federal court has granted interim injunctions against the promoters of a punting software program, which claims to analyse the rise and fall of dividends paid and tracks bets on horse races. The program plugs a success rate of between 70 and 95 percent.

The injunction has been bought against Solutions Software International, and two related companies formerly known as Acepark and Offtrack Investments.

The ACCC has claimed various Australian TAB services were also linked to the program.

The program allegedly fools punters into believing it can place successful bets, according to the ACCC. Furthermore, the companies are said to have received AU$8000 a month from the program's earnings.

The programs sold for up to AU$12,500 each.

The software companies have also been accused of false advertising, touting the service as an investment program rather than a gambling or punting system.

The ACCC is seeking a permanent injunction on the service and a refund to customers for the purchase price of the program and any costs incurred.

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Talkback 116 comments

  1. Has there been any acton by ACCC against a company called National Software Australia who market a product called Horizon. I was pushed into purchasing one of these packages also under the guise of an investment package. Since I have had a back injury and Anonymous -- 13/08/01

    Has there been any acton by ACCC against a company called National Software Australia who market a product called Horizon. I was pushed into purchasing one of these packages also under the guise of an investment package. Since I have had a back injury and can no longer work full time I mistakenly thought that I may be able to earn some income through this package, so I parted with $5500. I guess its a case of "buyer beware" and I didn't. Anyway I would be interested to hear from anyone who has the same package.

  2. I WANT MY MONEY BACK NOW! Anonymous -- 13/08/01

    I WANT MY MONEY BACK NOW!

  3. When does that maggot go to jail. Tell us, we need to know Glen Lyon -- 02/03/02

    When does that maggot go to jail.

    Tell us, we need to know

  4. There is nothing wrong or misleading with the Offtrack Investments or Bankers Trust Programs. The Programs simply provide detailed graphical portrayals of TAB server inforamtion that is availble to the public etc. How I interpret and use the inf Brian Hopkins -- 02/03/02

    There is nothing wrong or misleading with the Offtrack Investments or Bankers Trust Programs. The Programs simply provide detailed graphical portrayals of TAB server inforamtion that is availble to the public etc.

    How I interpret and use the inforamtion is up to me - in the same way as watching dividend movements/win mover changes in a TAB or at a Racecourse.

    Advertising is not misleading or unfair - you have to use it yourself and understand that the programs provide information only.

    I have been using the programs successfully for nearly 2 years and believe them to be ethical, practical, interesting and good value for money.

    Yours sincerely,
    Brian Hopkins JP
    New Zealand

  5. I bought the off track program and it is for information on betting prices it shows me all the betting action winning and losing its the ultimate video game its not a toy to be used by people with no real passion for racing and want to get rich quick Richard Obers -- 02/03/02

    I bought the off track program and it is for information on betting prices it shows me all the betting action winning and losing its the ultimate video game its not a toy to be used by people with no real passion for racing and want to get rich quick It takes many hours practice to get to learn how to pick winners but it takes years to learn HOW TO BET WITH PRECISION BASED ON SUTTLE MOVMENTS OF MONEY NOW I DONT WANT MY MONEY BACK I WANT MY TAZ FREE INCOME THAT OFF TRACK GAVE ME BACK

  6. I bought the offtrack program approx 3 years ago. Although they gave me a lot off customer support, to this day I still loose on races which they tell me havethe perfect graphs. I have lost about $2000.00 over the past 3 years, and have come to the c Sandra -- 02/03/02

    I bought the offtrack program approx 3 years ago.
    Although they gave me a lot off customer support, to this day I still loose on races which they tell me havethe perfect graphs. I have lost about $2000.00 over the past 3 years, and have come to the conclusion that I am either stupid and can't use the program, or they have conned me into beleiving I could use the program to win.
    The money I used could come in very handy as my husband was in a car accident about 18 months ago and can't work like he used to,so if they are a scam and there is a possibility of getting my money back, I will do anything except let you print my name and email address.

    Sandra

  7. I purchased the Offtrack program two and a half years ago. Had all types of problems and of course the problems were always related to other things. e.g. I purchased two new computers over the two years, tried numerous ISP's to receive the downloads etc. Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I purchased the Offtrack program two and a half years ago. Had all types of problems and of course the problems were always related to other things. e.g. I purchased two new computers over the two years, tried numerous ISP's to receive the downloads etc. to no avail. I spent all the money I had for an "investment" for my future, was in so deep that I had to keep trying to get the thing to work - that did not happen. I started insisting on having my money back a few months after I purchased it, as they had told me that if it didn't work, I could have my money back. They finally promised, in writing to give me 'some' back - 18 months later - I am still waiting. All up I have lost over $20000.00, including the cost of program, new computers, ISP's, bets, phone calls, etc,etc.

  8. I purchased the "Offtrack" program approx 3years ago & have had no real success with it. Fortunately I have only lost about $150 plus my initial outlay for the program/computer etc. But it is not capable of earning me the income which I had Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I purchased the "Offtrack" program approx 3years ago & have had no real success with it. Fortunately I have only lost about $150 plus my initial outlay for the program/computer etc. But it is not capable of earning me the income which I had hoped for. There have been numerous changes of staff over the years & very little help in using the program. I had one training session with a so called expert over the telephone but he seemed to me to be quite inebriated and subsequently I got very little from the "training". I am very interested in the outcome of the action being taken by the ACCC.

  9. I have had this program for almost 12 months. I have had no luck making any money out of it.I thougt that prehaps it was me missing something important somewhere.Have spent about 15 hours per week approx trying to get it right,trying different combination Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I have had this program for almost 12 months. I have had no luck making any money out of it.I thougt that prehaps it was me missing something important somewhere.Have spent about 15 hours per week approx trying to get it right,trying different combinations.I would like my money back!!

  10. Previous posting "When does that maggot go to jail" by Glen Lyon was written by an impersonator. This is not the first time this has happened and they have been warned once before. Some people are just looking for trouble. Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    Previous posting "When does that maggot go to jail" by Glen Lyon was written by an impersonator.
    This is not the first time this has happened and they have been warned once before. Some people are just looking for trouble.

  11. I really don't know what the problem is!!! I find if I remain centred with myself and analyze the information accurately it is a wonderful way to make money. ""It is about letting the program tell me when to place investments and not trying to Peter H -- 02/03/02

    I really don't know what the problem is!!! I find if I remain centred with myself and analyze the information accurately it is a wonderful way to make money. ""It is about letting the program tell me when to place investments and not trying to look for them"". If I am looking for them I am not operating it successfully - I am beginning to have many successful days/evenings and will be pissed off if the providers of this program can no longer allow me to keep doing this because of the idiots who abuse it - CONTROL YOUR DESIRES and you may find it does work - STOP when you hit your daily win!!!

  12. I bought the program just over 12 months ago. At the beginning I tried to back every race. I soon learned that was a sure fire way to lose money. I now look for the professional money and am having great success. Some days I reach my goal for the day in o Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I bought the program just over 12 months ago. At the beginning I tried to back every race. I soon learned that was a sure fire way to lose money. I now look for the professional money and am having great success. Some days I reach my goal for the day in only 1 or 2 races. I soon know if the Proffessionals are not out there. A maximum time outlay of around an hour or two. Where can the average "Joe" earn approx $100 - $200 an hour or more some days??? Those of you who are losing heaps need to dry run and not just gamble.

  13. I too succummed to the lure of easier money especially when i was going thru a very bad time in my life. I thought this was a way out. After the initial purchase and between $5,000-7,000 down in losses is that in hindsight i was a fool. I hope t Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I too succummed to the lure of easier money especially when i was going thru a very bad time in my life. I thought this was a way out.
    After the initial purchase and between $5,000-7,000 down in losses is that in hindsight i was a fool.
    I hope the Accc can help me and others get their money back and prevent any others doing the same mistake.
    gabriel

  14. I bought Bankerschoice in September 2001, after they had been warned. How do they ignore the warning? I too thought I was just stupid but who is really stupid to throw away $10000.00?? They obviously lied. I had been called every three months to buy this Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I bought Bankerschoice in September 2001, after they had been warned. How do they ignore the warning? I too thought I was just stupid but who is really stupid to throw away $10000.00?? They obviously lied. I had been called every three months to buy this program when it was still Offtrack investments. After a year, fresh blood got me signing on the dotted line. My husband earns a very good salary ion the I.T business and I was told that I would get my money back in 8 weeks! I have $11.00 in my TAB account, have done what all three trainers trained me to do. By the way, they all have a different way of teaching you how to gamble, which by the way I have never done in my life! My marriage has suffered becasue of these sharks because I have thrown away $11000.00 which also includes the software for Dynamic Trading which is the same crowd of liars. I do think that the program works however, for hardend punters ((((I AM NOT ONE OF THEM)))))).I was lied to and told that it is investing, its gambling. After complaining I was given another trainer. They love firing their staff all the time too by the way. Its a pity we have to wait so long for the real culprits to be fired from ever owing a business!! What is wrong with the system out there or are we being punished for trusting. At any rate, I think its also time to expose them to Channel 9 Current affair to stop them from selling this program to other unsuspecting people. They advertise falsly and should've have been honest and then its up to the individual to buy the software with open eyes and know that it is a fantasmagoric opportunity for gamblers. Never buy something that doesn't offer a money back guarnetee. This is an expensive lesson i have learnt, one that cost over $10000.00. They have to pay us back. I have complained to the ACCC. Thank God for them. I just hope that they can deliver. If anyone is keen to expose them post your message and lets get them on TV the little moles. By the way, sionce I wrote them a few weeks back, they didn't even the decency to write back and tell me to get lost or anything. Their silence says it all and they CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE.... SECOND TO NONE. Can you believe it. Its time they were stopped, so lets go get em!!!!!

  15. these software programmes work at helping people make winning bets based on live information downloads the problem that some people have is that they have been under the illusion that they can win reasonable amounts in a short time.I believe it takes year Richie Obers -- 03/03/02

    these software programmes work at helping people make winning bets based on live information downloads the problem that some people have is that they have been under the illusion that they can win reasonable amounts in a short time.I believe it takes years of steady practice to be able to sucsessfully make money out of the offtrack programe .Picking winners through money movments is very difficult and it seems some are more better at it than others I warned the sales lady when I purchased mine that they should not be making income earnings projections as this is the main reason many people invested into the programe .

  16. We purchased Offtrack about 3 years ago and like many other people on this comments board have had no success, even with the "perfect indicators". We are also very interested in any action that may help us get our so called "investment Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    We purchased Offtrack about 3 years ago and like many other people on this comments board have had no success, even with the "perfect indicators".
    We are also very interested in any action that may help us get our so called "investment" back.

  17. Stongly suggest that all those that have lost money in these investments either phone or email complaints to the ACCC. Emails can be sent from their web page. The more complaints they receive the more chance we stand of getting any money back. Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    Stongly suggest that all those that have lost money in these investments either phone or email complaints to the ACCC.
    Emails can be sent from their web page.
    The more complaints they receive the more chance we stand of getting any money back.

  18. I started off with $3000 in the TAB account a year and a half ago. I stuck to Offtrack's and Bankers Choice criterias, tried all 4 of them and now I am $3000 plus in the red . The software does not deliver live data, if it did it wouldn't have a 1 - Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    I started off with $3000 in the TAB account a year and a half ago. I stuck to Offtrack's and Bankers Choice criterias, tried all 4 of them and now I am $3000 plus in the red .
    The software does not deliver live data, if it did it wouldn't have a 1 - 2 minute delay and also stop getting feeds 1 minute before the race. Thousands of dollars can be put on in that time just before the race and you don't get to see it?
    It humours me when Offtrack/Bankers Choice keeps using the terms: Invest, investing, investment, professional money, smart money, professional spike it goes on and on.
    Reallity: by purchasing this program is a gamble and not smart money, making a bet is gambling not investing, a hundred people state wide sitting at the Pub TAB making $20 bets (total $2000)a minute before the race starts is not a professional spike.

  19. We bought the Off-track programme nearly three years ago, made the change to Bankers Choice when the bought Off-Track. There is nothing wrong with either of these programmes. Bankers probably has an edge on Off-track. The problem is the idiots that believ Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    We bought the Off-track programme nearly three years ago, made the change to Bankers Choice when the bought Off-Track. There is nothing wrong with either of these programmes. Bankers probably has an edge on Off-track. The problem is the idiots that believe if quick fix's which unfortunately is the great majority surveyed here.If one follows the programme one will make money, fact. Betting on every race is at no time recommended, betting on two year olds is a no no, betting over 14 in a race out. How does one bet on every race with those rules? What we have here is people looking for Santa to appear on Christmas Eve. When we purchased Off-Track there was a money back guarantee plus a thirty day cooling off period. We never asked for our money back. They should make selecting their clients a rule as well. Does anyone write to the ACCC when they don't win Lotto? Come on fellows live in the real world. Why would anyone wait for three years etc, then ask for their money back. I wonder will the ACCC interview anyone that knows how to work the programme, I doubt it. If any person require my email post the request here. I don't want a bunch of idiots writing to me.
    Rhonda

  20. Hi, this is Peter H again. I posted a message earlier and wish to add a little extra. Firstly I appologise for calling the people losing their money idiots - as I too started on this win/lose cycle until I learnt to master 'time', rather than 'time' takin Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    Hi, this is Peter H again. I posted a message earlier and wish to add a little extra. Firstly I appologise for calling the people losing their money idiots - as I too started on this win/lose cycle until I learnt to master 'time', rather than 'time' taking control over me, which causes you to look for the winners in every race. Personally, if Offtrack, or Bankers, who now own this program, are forced to stop providing this program to me by the ACCC after all the disciplinary tactics that I have learnt to apply upon myself whilst operating it, then I feel that the ACCC should be liable for the initial stress - financial outlay (computer /connections/etc etc )and losses I experienced, as well as all the future loss of earnings I will suffer. I do however recommend they modify their advertising strategy to ensure people don't think it is an easy game - IT IS NOT. It works providing you remain honest with yourself and learn when to cease betting (investing). The advantage I had, I guess, is that I was already a punter on a casual level and knew full well what I was purchasing from the very beginning. Now I wait in 'silence' and even try to read a book etc during quiet times, until a graph that suits my preferential selection criteria (and I have devised many options for myself) basically sais "here I am - pick me!" If this loses - don't despair - realign yourself again to avoid chasing it back. Anyhow I am counting on the continual use of the Bankers program for a real time income (short term - but for the long run - every graph/race/day is different - DON'T get carried away!) Please guys - think carefully about the one's you witness that do win - even if you have to invest on two horses/dogs in the same race - there are definite styles of graphs/pools etc that quite simply come storming in! By the way, I spent many, many, many hours to realise this! I hope this aids the people who are obviously very distressed about losing their money.
    Regards Peter

  21. my partner and i purchased this program around 1998. we never made any money on this program and after a while stopped using it. i spent alot of money , time and effort in trying to break even..on a crap program which alot of the time had time out or dow Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    my partner and i purchased this program around 1998. we never made any money on this program and after a while stopped using it. i spent alot of money , time and effort in trying to break even..on a crap program which alot of the time had time out or downloading data errors. these guys ripped us off and i think we all deserve a refund of at least the program price we paid for.
    cheers. and i thought you were all straight up!! marion and company.

  22. Illegal software.................. I wonder if Bankers Choice is still telling clients that they are affiliated with the TAB's? or... letting clients know that you are buying software that is illegally using data from the TAB web sites whic Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    Illegal software..................
    I wonder if Bankers Choice is still telling clients that they are affiliated with the TAB's?
    or...
    letting clients know that you are buying software that is illegally using data from the TAB web sites which is against TAB copyright...Please if anyone disagrees with me contact the NSW and QLD TAB's.Email direct to their webmaster.
    Trev

  23. We too bought Off Track and had the same bad experiences with the program as others. We found it impossible to pin down the criteria for selecting the winning graph. In the end, we realised it was probably a rip off. Goodbye, $10,000 plus bets! Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    We too bought Off Track and had the same bad experiences with the program as others. We found it impossible to pin down the criteria for selecting the winning graph. In the end, we realised it was probably a rip off. Goodbye, $10,000 plus bets!

  24. After months of research into the vast number of programs available on the market, my wife and I decided to go ahead with the BC program. It was quite scary since we are both sceptical about gambling. Given the way the product was promoted, it did make so Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    After months of research into the vast number of programs available on the market, my wife and I decided to go ahead with the BC program. It was quite scary since we are both sceptical about gambling. Given the way the product was promoted, it did make some sort of sense. Admitantly, we did make some obvious and silly mistakes in the early stages. After analysing some of these decisions, we have become alot more disciplined in our approach and are starting to see the benefits filter through. To avoid large losses, we started off paper trading to prove the methodology of the program. This was followed by 1 and 2 dollar bets. To extract the full value of the program I believe bets in the vicinity of $50 to $100 range are required. Realistically, we are a long way from this but I'm sure as our confidence grows so to, will our success. We are still well short of recouping the initial outlay of $5500 however, we still remain quite positive about the program.

  25. With regard to TREV's comment about the "illegal software" I have made a couple of enquiries about this to NSW TAB and VIC TAB and the customer service reps told me that info was there for the public. If the info is for public display on a publi Bankers User -- 04/03/02

    With regard to TREV's comment about the "illegal software" I have made a couple of enquiries about this to NSW TAB and VIC TAB and the customer service reps told me that info was there for the public. If the info is for public display on a public domain then it cant be illegal to download it. There is nothing illegal about downloading from public domains. It is information for the public.
    If the TABs did not want you to download the info they could stop it. Some sites enable "interlectual property" clauses and dont allow you to "right click" and save info.
    The TABs want your business. They want as much money bet on every race as they can get as this effects their profit. They make profit on the size of the pool not who wins and definitely not who downloads off their website. Why do you think they have all have online betting. THEY WANT YOUR MONEY. If you win thats good. If you loose they dont care. They have shareholders saying get the money in on as many races as you can. Its quite logical if you think about it. Bigger pools means more profit. They take a % off the top of each pool.
    I am surprised that they don't promote programmes that utilize their publicly displayed information.
    If you want to discuss this further email me.
    I have a BA in IT and MASTERS of BUSINESS COMMS. I work for a large educational institution in Sydney.
    I prefer to remain anonymous as I have a publicly listed phone number and do not want to be answering the phone all day and all night. Please feel free to email me at felicity_edu@hotmail.com and will endeavour to answer any questions.

  26. hi I have been reading the comments and just want to add that I will be off to the NZTAB today to pick up winnnings made over the weekend. I am also expecting cheques from the NSW TAB. these are significant and regular and all made using inform Brian Hopkins -- 04/03/02

    hi

    I have been reading the comments and just want to add that I will be off to the NZTAB today to pick up winnnings made over the weekend. I am also expecting cheques from the NSW TAB. these are significant and regular and all made using information I have learned since buying offtrack and using the latter Bankers choice programs.

    It is real folks but you can't bet on every race or on every "spike" - Wait for the ones that hit you in the eye. Use a "count-down" alarm clock to remind you say 2 minutes before a race is starting. Then you can go about your business between races and simply check the graphs in time to bet if you want to. NOTE THE EMPHASIS "IF YOU WANT TO" - THE PROGRAM DOES NOT BET FOR YOU!"

    Happy to talk to anyone on Auckland 09 638 7031.

    I wouldn't be using the program if I didn't want to!

    Brian Hopkins

  27. Okay to you guys (real punters)and gamblers who are making money using the program. I was lied to by the sales person that I would make my $11000.00 back in 8 weeks. How can that be possible. I challenge anyone out there who has this program to make $1100 Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    Okay to you guys (real punters)and gamblers who are making money using the program. I was lied to by the sales person that I would make my $11000.00 back in 8 weeks. How can that be possible. I challenge anyone out there who has this program to make $11000.00 in 8 weeks. Now remember, I was not told that 5 weeks would be of training of 1 hour per week. That would leave me three weeks to have officially been a professional. NOT? I am not a stupid idiot who thought I would make tons of money without having been told I would. I have never watched or betted on any race in my life. I told the salesperson this too. With glee I was encouraged to buy this unique program that would make me rich. Remember the Offtrack video. Does it look like it has taken years of "practice" to earn a few Bob?
    Does it look like you still stay in your regular job? No it looks like you are stinking rich with allot of time on your hands because you have made heaps of lovely money. Are we not in it for the money. Or do you punters just love going to the races and that is the reason for buying the software?

    So, I will stand by my guns. Another example of hard line selling is that my husband earns a huge salary. I was drawn into buying this program to save my husband the hard life of working to death. I told this to the salesperson and he said, wait for this one, my husband could leave his job in time!
    Thank God he didn't pack it in. I am angry for the lies. If I was told up front that this is great for people wanting an " edge' on the average punter out there. A gambling tool, then I would not have touched it. Its that simple. But lets be honest here. You can't have a company like this tell you the truth. God no, then we non punters would not be buying their program. Where is their "second to none service "now.?
    You keep your customers happy. They are in it for the money and its time Australians stood their ground and demand some decent service out there. I will reitterate that its a gambling tool and they should stop selling this program as an investment opportunity. Jees, for goodness sake, do you ask a punter sitting in a pub, hey man, how much are you investing today? I can assure you, he is also not "backing" losers, which we are constantly told as part of our training.
    I am still waiting from a response from the company but still nothing. I just wish that I had the common sense to find them out first before parting with money. We are in the red because of these liars and I will do anything to get my husband's money back. I do not feel that there would be any danger to the happy customers out there unless the company will not honour their commitment to customer service, as you can see sorely lacks in integrity.
    They should still offer software updates and service and I do not think that any law would prevent them from keeping their commitment to the happy ones out there.
    I just want them stopped from lying to more people and to advertise the truth, then they have nothing to worry about!!!
    By the way, has anyone got their telephone number(s) and address. They are unreachable. Have you noticed that you can't get into their website?
    Great customer service.

  28. I dont understand all the fuss.I purchased the OFFTRACK program and i am now with BANKERS CHOICE and I THINK IT IS THE BEST SOFTWARE OUT THERE.I have made good money because i get incredible live information on the races but this also means it requires pa Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    I dont understand all the fuss.I purchased the OFFTRACK program and i am now with BANKERS CHOICE and I THINK IT IS THE BEST SOFTWARE OUT THERE.I have made good money because i get incredible live information on the races but this also means it requires patients and dicipline.It also requires self responsibility as it is not a pokermachine.THANKYOU BANKERS FOR YOUR GREAT PROGRAM and allowing me to make a great income.
    Yours Sincerely
    Luke

  29. Having had the offtrack program for the last 2 years I"ve had mixed results breaking even overall the trouble seems consistency when you have a good period of following your own criteria all of a sudden what you think is right goes out the door.I hav Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    Having had the offtrack program for the last 2 years I"ve had mixed results breaking even overall the trouble seems consistency when you have a good period of following your own criteria all of a sudden what you think is right goes out the door.I have spent countless hours studying the program and it does seem to be impossible to make the thousands the sales people say.Most disapointing is the extremely bad customer service its very difficult to get into contact with the operators either by phone or via the website.Would it be possible to get in contact with the people who do well out of the system to see if they can give any advice on where our problems lie in selections.It may not be possible as it effects the dividends

  30. I too would like to talk to other people who have been successful with Offtrack/BC but my previous message was deleted. What is going on here? Martin Wheeler -- 04/03/02

    I too would like to talk to other people who have been successful with Offtrack/BC but my previous message was deleted. What is going on here?

  31. I purchased OT back in Feb 99. For the first 18 months I broke even. Over the next year I realised that discipline is very very important. I then did quite well and was making more per hour with OT than I was at work. Then I went silly and lost my discipl Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    I purchased OT back in Feb 99. For the first 18 months I broke even. Over the next year I realised that discipline is very very important. I then did quite well and was making more per hour with OT than I was at work. Then I went silly and lost my discipline and hence my money. I am know diciplined and patient and doing well again. AT times I have had visitors while using Bankers and their comment usually is that they wouldn't have the self control to operate the program in the profitable way that I do. I agree with Peter H. I do not want the ACCC to remove a financial cornerstone from my portfolio. Stopping the software updates would as detrimental to my situation as purchasing and ineffectively using the software has been to others.

  32. In reply to Bankers User............. Yes you are right in saying it is not illegal to download data from TAB sites... But you misunderstood.... What is illegal is manipulating, scraping, copying etc. someone else's data into a third party Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    In reply to Bankers User.............
    Yes you are right in saying it is not illegal to download data from TAB sites...
    But you misunderstood....
    What is illegal is manipulating, scraping, copying etc. someone else's data into a third party software eg. Bankers Choice, and on-selling this software....
    Please take the time to read the copyright information on the NSW TAB site for clarification of this....
    I personally have spoken to the TAB legal teams and they have confirmed that Offtrack/Bankers Choice is not affiliated with them nor have they the authorisation to use the data the way they do....
    It does not take a BA or a Masters to read the copyright provisions on the TAB web sites....
    Trev

  33. i purchased offtrack in 3 years ago and was transferred to bankers choice. I believe the programme gives information that with intelligent interpretation can yield profits. discipline and a professional approach is necessary. i want my access and updates john kelly -- 04/03/02

    i purchased offtrack in 3 years ago and was transferred to bankers choice. I believe the programme gives information that with intelligent interpretation can yield profits. discipline and a professional approach is necessary. i want my access and updates restored. i would like to get in touch with jim champion and rhonda dixon

  34. after having read thru all the comments several key points keep springing to mind after reading the comments of happy successful users of the programme like myself the need for very strong selfdiscipline to only bet on races where all parameters and COLIN THOMSON -- 04/03/02

    after having read thru all the comments several key points keep springing to mind after reading the comments of happy successful users of the programme like myself
    the need for very strong selfdiscipline to only bet on races where all parameters and criteria are met no exceptions
    patience to wait for above conditions to be met,
    and not chase races to catch up after a loss
    understandind that the programme does not select you do.you need to build up your experience and
    interpretation of late movements this should be started with dry runs and then started with small
    bets and increased slowly,reverting back to dry runs if you have ongoing problems
    analysis of your bets so you can eliminate errors
    evaluate trends and form some criteria of your own to increase your returns
    the system is not 100 percent correct all of the time sometimes all criteria has been met and still tou experience a loss however the results do stack up if you have patience and discipline
    for this calender year my results have been
    place bets 196/301 at 2.46 divy thats 65 percent
    trifectas 64/298 at83.27 divy very profitable
    if you are not the sort of person who after taking two straight losses that weren't your
    fault and then wait 1.5 hours before placing another bet which meets the criteria then either you should learn to be or you shouldn't be using the programme
    while i beleive it is fair for the accc to stop the marketing and sales of the programme while investigating the possible misrepresentation of it ,and the possible refunds depending on their findigs.i beleive the continued access use and updating of the current version should be available to all satisfied paid up members who do not want a refund .
    why should i and my family be deprived of the income source i have paid for and spent time learning and refining

  35. Look at the date on the Znet page - it is Aug,01. I think this is BC's way of saying "Get Lost Suckers!" I have written my own software so I am okay but I feel very sorry for the rest of you. Martin Wheeler -- 04/03/02

    Look at the date on the Znet page - it is Aug,01. I think this is BC's way of saying "Get Lost Suckers!" I have written my own software so I am okay but I feel very sorry for the rest of you.

  36. Have been a member for nealy two years having paid $10,000.00 and have had no profit to speak about the problems that i have encountered are to numerous to list some are down loads from the server, program faults, etc. Was sold the program as an investmen Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    Have been a member for nealy two years having paid $10,000.00 and have had no profit to speak about the problems that i have encountered are to numerous to list some are down loads from the server, program faults, etc. Was sold the program as an investment, that i could infact make a living from this.What a take.I would love to get my hard earned money back if it was possible????

  37. This web page is a set-up this page is designed for people who bought offtrack and no longer have access to bankers choice. so i do not understand why bankers choice clients are bothering to post messages, after all, bankers choice keeps claimin Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    This web page is a set-up
    this page is designed for people who bought offtrack and no longer have access to bankers choice. so i do not understand why bankers choice clients are bothering to post messages, after all,
    bankers choice keeps claiming they have nothing to do with offtrack.
    why is it that when the bankers choice name took over the offtrack name they continued to support all clients, now out of the blue bankers choice is snubbing off offtrack clients? i would like bankers choice to explain to us the reasons why since this web page is their idea. show some professionalism instead of rubbing salt into the wound.

  38. So what happens now.I stuggled for 2 yrs to get this right and just when i get it sorted out it may be taken away.I never really lost,just broke even, that was untill six months ago.Now i'm starting to make money,i feel i've been cut off at the knee's, li Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    So what happens now.I stuggled for 2 yrs to get this right and just when i get it sorted out it may be taken away.I never really lost,just broke even, that was untill six months ago.Now i'm starting to make money,i feel i've been cut off at the knee's, like a sportsman thats trained for 2 yrs and then told he cann't compete.It's all been said don't look for a bet it will hit you in the eye.I to used to look for a bet,panic if i lost,not any more, ignore the loss and carry on.You may have to wait till the next day,or the day after,but you will win more than you loss.So how long will this take to be resolved,do we just sit and wait,or what.

  39. looks like i have done my money ,i can tell you this dose not work ,i have tried for about 2 years with no luck, could some one please let me know if there is any way of getting my money back please email me thank you Emilio -- 04/03/02

    looks like i have done my money ,i can tell you this dose not work ,i have tried for about 2 years with no luck, could some one please let me know if there is any way of getting my money back
    please email me
    thank you

  40. Jim Champion or Rhonda Dixon. Please supply e-mail for frustrated "non-idiot". j kelly -- 05/03/02

    Jim Champion or Rhonda Dixon. Please supply e-mail for frustrated "non-idiot".

  41. love my Offtrack and Bankers Choice. What is going on here. Spending 5 months every day for 2 hours studying the info and teachings and working on a criteria with enormous self discipline without even a bet, certainly helped me. I have never h Anonymous -- 05/03/02

    love my Offtrack and Bankers Choice. What is going on here.
    Spending 5 months every day for 2 hours studying the info and teachings and working on a criteria with enormous self discipline without even a bet, certainly helped me.
    I have never had a free lunch, and do not expect because I pay for a software program that it is a license to make money. If it is to be it is up to me. Even when in lessons my strike rate was above what was stated. I had no doubt that with a little effort I could achieve what I wanted with the material provided.
    Bear in mind I am not a gambler and no nothing about horses.
    Will be bitterly disappointed if my program is removed from my availablity. I so look forward to it. Such a pity for those of us who followed through that all this is happening.
    Thank you Bankers Choice for allowing me to continue with my program. I am a very grateful participant.

  42. Original add that appeared in Best Bets. Cash Flow Business $6,000 per month*tax free*take advantage of our live demonstration No selling,not M.L.M. 6 hrs per week to earn an axtra income from home,$1,000 to $3,000 per week For a free Bankrupt Punter -- 05/03/02

    Original add that appeared in Best Bets.
    Cash Flow Business
    $6,000 per month*tax free*take advantage of our live demonstration
    No selling,not M.L.M. 6 hrs per week to earn an axtra income from home,$1,000 to $3,000 per week
    For a free corporate brochure call
    OFFTRACK 0800 448-261

  43. i have been using bankers choice for some time now and have had success. look if you are unable to operate the programme,start training. this program works. stop blaming, bc for your incompetence geoff wood n.z happy punter. geoffrey lloyd wood -- 05/03/02

    i have been using bankers choice for some time now and have had success.
    look if you are unable to operate the programme,start training. this program works.
    stop blaming, bc for your incompetence

    geoff wood n.z happy punter.

  44. I have had Offtrack for 4 years and yet to make ONE Dollar Broke Investor -- 05/03/02

    I have had Offtrack for 4 years and yet to make ONE Dollar

  45. I have used Offtrack for Three years. What I have made I have given back PLUS CONNED INVESTOR -- 05/03/02

    I have used Offtrack for Three years. What I have made I have given back PLUS

  46. After making many comlaintes I asked for my money back and was refused WHY! Anonymous -- 05/03/02

    After making many comlaintes I asked for my money back and was refused WHY!

  47. I can not find any one that has consistently made Money Win punting Gallops with this Software package for any considerable time period. Pipe Dream -- 05/03/02

    I can not find any one that has consistently made Money Win punting Gallops with this Software package for any considerable time period.

  48. I have made nothing in two years operating the program all ways. Dave -- 05/03/02

    I have made nothing in two years operating the program all ways.

  49. Money Back or better still show everybody how to make money with the program. Simple Solution -- 05/03/02

    Money Back or better still show everybody how to make money with the program.

  50. Let us see Offtrack/Bankers Choice in NZ operating on a live race meeting and making what they claim the program makes. Front up to back your product. Easy Solution -- 05/03/02

    Let us see Offtrack/Bankers Choice in NZ operating on a live race meeting and making what they claim the program makes. Front up to back your product.

  51. Program has been for sale for NZ$2,000 in Tauranga paper. KC -- 05/03/02

    Program has been for sale for NZ$2,000 in Tauranga paper.

  52. How come those of you who are enjoying the program knew what you were getting into? Perhaps you were told the truth? I was not and that has made me very angry. Its not a mere couple of hundred bucks thrown away on a stupid investment. I would wa Angelique Combrink -- 05/03/02

    How come those of you who are enjoying the program knew what you were getting into?
    Perhaps you were told the truth?
    I was not and that has made me very angry. Its not a mere couple of hundred bucks thrown away on a stupid investment. I would walk away then. But I cannot and will not walk away from this. They lied and that's that. If I had known up front what was what and that it was not a get rich quick thing, then its a different story. Its not sour grapes and I am not a stupid idiot ANYMORE! Some of us have been conned. So how much are you making then? Have you left your day jobs and supporting your families generously. Remember the flashy yachts and trips, going on holiday. Someone posted a copy of the ad that got him. Now tell me are you all making about $6000 a month? I was told I could get double that. There is apparently a couple in Queensland who are earning $250 000. a year. Is this just another lie? They apparently work every day and all day.
    I do not believe that the ACCC or any law would prevent customers to not be serviced and given updates by the company. That would be wrong, however, those of us who are unhappy should be refunded. I did not know what I was getting into because I was not told everything there was to know. The reason they don't guarentee is because they can't. I just wish I had not been gullable.
    So I wish those of you luck because that's what this is, just luck! And that's gambling.
    By the way, I have been blocked from entering the web site to bankerschoice. I still own the program. They have not refunded me. This means that they must know that I am taking action against them. They are just proving to me what they are really made of, so be careful. Have you checked out the website lately?
    So does anyone have a contact number for Bankerschoice and their location?

  53. Comin suckers, like the old saying goes. There stood an open door to a kings cross strip bar with a pimp by it showing the way to the promised land. fortunately at 16 I knew the difference be it instinctively. But at the ripe old age of 24 allowed myse roman -- 05/03/02

    Comin suckers, like the old saying goes. There stood an open door to a kings cross strip bar with a pimp by it showing the way to the promised land. fortunately at 16 I knew the difference be it instinctively. But at the ripe old age of 24 allowed myself to get completely pulled in by easy money. Come in suckers. Said the sleazy smiling yet lying pimp. A land of faulty product with a poor excuse for training and support awaits. Very similar to my experience in kings cross. But this time i smiled forked over 6000 clams and led the way myself.

    To my surprise the dam thing showed signs of working. Win some lose some, still up absolutely no compensation for your outlay or time involved.
    Then the program stuffs up. What? Hello Bankers boys, Hello. No response. Mnnnn. Email. OK. "Oh sorry correspondance is only done via email." OK no worries. After all this thing looks like it might start paying out soon.... Bull dust... 4months later. Getting confident enough to actually start putting money on the races hahaha.
    one week the program stuffs up again. They own me. I own nothing. Now there is is no more responses to my email. No more upgrades. Even a new password on there website which doesnot allow me access.

    Thankyou bankers choice you cant even satisfy a person who can successfully use your program.
    Bastards. But dont worry I always get my money back.

  54. Offtrack/BC address from another web site if anyone is interested. Suite F11, Redwing Plaza 47 Ashmore Road Bundall QLD 4217 (Gold Coast) support@bankerschoice.com.au Apparently they share the same office as www.sovereig Anonymous -- 05/03/02

    Offtrack/BC address from another web site if anyone is interested.

    Suite F11, Redwing Plaza
    47 Ashmore Road
    Bundall QLD 4217 (Gold Coast)
    support@bankerschoice.com.au

    Apparently they share the same office as www.sovereignsoftware.com.au more betting software and some of the same Offtrack employees.
    Sovereign Software also uses support@bankerschoice.com.au as one of its email addresses.

    One final thing, how strange that people posting messages on this web page claiming they are doing very well with the software but does not share their criteria with the people who are struggling?
    They can't be using Offtrack/BC's criteria (which one)because none of them work. I'm still using their criteria and I'm still losing and that's still with paper trading.

  55. If Sovereign Software is the next link in the chain (after Bankers Choice, Offtrack, Acepark and Solutions Software - my, they have been busy over the past couple of years!), then I suggest you try the following telephone number for them: 07 5531 8755. Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    If Sovereign Software is the next link in the chain (after Bankers Choice, Offtrack, Acepark and Solutions Software - my, they have been busy over the past couple of years!), then I suggest you try the following telephone number for them: 07 5531 8755.

    It looks like their scam is finally beginning to unravel. See how they run!

  56. The class action line starts at the bottom end of NZ and all the way to Perth WA Are you in it? Price Miller Curtin and Assoc -- 06/03/02

    The class action line starts at the bottom end of NZ and all the way to Perth WA
    Are you in it?

  57. I bought Offtrack. I have lost money with it and really want my money back. Being paid my investment would be wonderful. I have invested a lot of time and money into a bad investment that I was lead to believe was profitable. Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    I bought Offtrack. I have lost money with it and really want my money back. Being paid my investment would be wonderful. I have invested a lot of time and money into a bad investment that I was lead to believe was profitable.

  58. When will you realise that all the Offtrack program does is tell you how money has been bet on animals at certain times before a race starts. It does show when money is placed and if the people that put it on WIN, then so do you. If the animal doesn't do Jon -- 06/03/02

    When will you realise that all the Offtrack program does is tell you how money has been bet on animals at certain times before a race starts. It does show when money is placed and if the people that put it on WIN, then so do you. If the animal doesn't do what these punters think it will do, is that the programs fault or theirs? The program just shows where money was bet. Most times these bets will run a place. The big punters are putting the money on for the WIN. Don't blame the program for being wrong, because the program is always right. The money did go on those animals. The animal doesn't know that it is supposed to run 1st. That's RACING. The program delivers pure data, all you have to do is find something out of the ordinary. Just be patient and it will work. The otherside of the coin is the way some people market the program. Sometimes people say things that are not true. I don't think that Offtrack is the first or the last company to do that. Some have said that they were "bullied" into buying the program. If that is so, then blame yourself, not a salesman trying to make a quid. All said and done, we are all responsible for our own actions. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

  59. WELL SAID JON. PATIENCE AND SELF DISCIPLINE ARE A VIRTUE, EVEN IF YOU ONLY BET (INVEST ON 1 OR 2 EVENTS PER DAY/SITTING) Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    WELL SAID JON. PATIENCE AND SELF DISCIPLINE ARE A VIRTUE, EVEN IF YOU ONLY BET (INVEST ON 1 OR 2 EVENTS PER DAY/SITTING)

  60. But the software has too work first. I agree that working out the right bet is hard work that takes time, dedication and patience. But if the software is not working because the company has done a runner then you are out of business. And that is the cu Martin Wheeler -- 06/03/02

    But the software has too work first. I agree that working out the right bet is hard work that takes time, dedication and patience. But if the software is not working because the company has done a runner then you are out of business. And that is the current situation. Thoses that are being successful need to get themselves into a position where they are not dependent on a fly-by-night operation.
    I have done this by writing my own and now I do have the freedom that BC talks about

  61. Has anyone heard of the B.D.R.S. programe. It comes out of Melbourne.It is a more soffisticated version of offtrack. Chris -- 06/03/02

    Has anyone heard of the B.D.R.S. programe.
    It comes out of Melbourne.It is a more soffisticated version of offtrack.

  62. "Reading Everyone's Comments Again" The software backing Offtrack/Bankers Choice is the same software behind most share trading programmes in the world today. Any proffessionl person knows the data downloaded from share trading programmes a Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    "Reading Everyone's Comments Again"
    The software backing Offtrack/Bankers Choice is the same software behind most share trading programmes in the world today. Any proffessionl person knows the data downloaded from share trading programmes are not live, it is always at least two minutes behind. If you want live you pay a lot of money to have this. Once again I say the people using Bankers Choice are not following the programme correctly. We find Bankers Choice brilliant. You can make three hundred dollars a day without a problem. Of course you have to sit & wait for the correct information to appear. Paper trading is not the way to go. We love Bankers Choice and would recommed it to proffessional punters anywhere. Investing in anything is gambling, don't delude yourselves. Look at how many people loose with the share market or throw in Enron for an example. You have to work at this, if everyone could make some of the examples quoted on this forum not one person in Australia would have to work; I don't go out to work however can live quite well with what I have here and I do know other people that do the same thing to reach this stage they have put in the hours like us. At no stage were we ever told we would have our funds back in five weeks, had we been told that probably wouldn't of bought the programme. We bet on race horses many years before this programme came along I've seen every punter in the book believe me Bankers makes the betting life a lot easier. Follow the rules and you will make money, most importantly only bet ten percent of your pool, if you have three losses stop and come back the next day. If you have three wins first up stop and come back the next day. Also with computers you have to keep upgrading have a good ISP provider that is very important not just for Bankers but anything. There are some people with computers that just can't download any information correctly at all. One other thing you can download any TAB information without having Bankers. We have TAB accounts in three states & don't need any software to get into the TABS. We hope Bankers run forever.
    Jim Champion & Rhonda Dixon

  63. If anyone from BC is monitoring these posts, and I'm sure they will be, it seems to me the fair and honourable solution, as far as I am concerned, would be to offer upgrades at a price, reflecting the fair costs of programmer time to write the upgrade etc j kelly -- 06/03/02

    If anyone from BC is monitoring these posts, and I'm sure they will be, it seems to me the fair and honourable solution, as far as I am concerned, would be to offer upgrades at a price, reflecting the fair costs of programmer time to write the upgrade etc.
    We can't stop the TAB websites from changing from time to time. I have invested a lot of time (over 3 years)and some punting money to finally make the programme profitable, and I resent that final ownership and control is out of my hands. The present situation will not b