Telstra busted rigging user surveys

Telstra has confessed that a ZDNet Australia survey which questions whether the telco's Internet service provides value for money was rigged by someone within its ranks, just days after its ramped up Net access toll fell under the investigation of the competition watchdog for possible breaches of the Trade Practices Act.

ZDNet Australia set up a poll at 3pm on Thursday, which asked readers: “Does Telstra’s BigPond Internet service provide value for money?” At about 5pm, 25 respondents to the poll said no, value for money wasn’t provided by the national carrier, with just one reader saying otherwise.

Within half an hour, the survey had bulked up dramatically, sparking a disbelieving turnaround in Telstra’s favour. Within those thirty minutes, a massive 287 respondents had apparently logged a favourable vote for Telstra – a response rate never seen before in previous ZDNet Australia polls and a bit of a dubious blackflip in light of the widespread criticism Telstra has attracted in response its Net price hikes.

ZDNet Australia logs showed that a "bot" on IP address registered to Telstra’s Internet Managed Services (IMS) division, had indeed been set to fix the survey results and consistently hit the “yes” option of the poll every second.

When contacted, Telstra confirmed that an in-house IP address was responsible for the surge in its favourable results and said it was “doing some further investigation”, presumably to locate the poll-rigging culprit within its ranks. Spokesperson Stuart Gray said such behaviour is not sanctioned by Telstra. ”It’s not a Telstra endorsed initiative,” he said.

The poll fixing comes just weeks after it was revealed that Microsoft had rigged a similar ZDNet UK poll, putting .Net in a more positive light than Java for building Web services.

This week’s suspicious result did not escape the notice of ZDNet Australia readers themselves.

“Did Telstra do a Microsoft?” reader John Butler asked after viewing the poll results. “I just voted ‘No’ to the question ‘does Telstra's BigPond Internet service provide value for money?’ To my absolute astonishment the poll showed that 87 percent think so. As this is of course an absurd result, I cannot exclude the possibility that Telstra does manipulate opinion polls.”

With the integrity of the survey obviously corrupted, the poll was removed at 10am Friday and replaced with another asking: “Should Telstra compensate its customers for regular service interruptions?” Obviously on a roll, Telstra’s insider poll-rigger got to work again, setting the "bot" into motion and registering hundreds of votes in Telstra's favour after early responses had been squarely aimed against the telecommunications giant

"The results of the voting here are totally unbelievable and obviously....telstra have been manipulating it," another ZDNet Australia reader said of the second poll's suspicious results.

"No way would anyone who has been keeping an eye on ZDNet's coverage of complaints against Telstra and stories of outages say clients and residential users do not deserve credits or even compensatoin within reasonable boundaries for business."

That poll has also now been replaced.

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Talkback 83 comments

  1. muuuuuuuuuuuuuwahahahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I love it! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUSTED ....... and thanks to Zdnet having the courage to come out and say it , we all know it as fact! Jackie Chan -- 25/01/02

    muuuuuuuuuuuuuwahahahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I love it!

    BUUUUUUUUUUUUUSTED ....... and thanks to Zdnet having the courage to come out and say it , we all know it as fact!

  2. Telstra rigged two polls today and yesterday alone. God knows how many polls they rigged last year! Good to see that zdnet has the courage to report on it. For info on the two rigged polls see: http://www.zdnet.com.au/tal Anonymous -- 25/01/02

    Telstra rigged two polls today and yesterday alone.
    God knows how many polls they rigged last year!

    Good to see that zdnet has the courage to report on it.

    For info on the two rigged polls see:
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback?PROCESS=show&ID=20008165&AT=2000024993-20263147

    Copy and paste

    Second Telstra Quick Poll taken off line after only five hours.

    The question of the second Telstra poll was

    "Should Telstra compensate its customers for regular service interruptions?"

    and the poll started to show the same absurd results as the first one which was taken off line after only one day instead of the usual seven days for www.zdnet.com.au polls.

    Is it not interesting to see how the comments about Telstra are usually overwhelmingly negative and the on line polls regarding Telstra display the opposite result?

    Is Telstra again misrepresenting?

    For reference see
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback?PROCESS=show&ID=20008159&AT=2000024993-20263147

    Copy & paste...

    Quick Poll suddenly changed to

    "Should Telstra compensate its customers for regular service interruptions?"

    Half a hour ago it was still
    "Does Telstra's BigPond Internet service provide value for money?"
    With 85% saying yes

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback?PROCESS=show&ID=20008141&AT=2000024993-20263134

    Beginning of cut & paste.
    Comments:
    Did Telstra do a Microsoft?

    I just voted "No" to the question

    "Does Telstra's BigPond Internet service provide value for money?"

    To my absolute astonishment the poll showed that 87% think so.

    As this is of course an absurd result, I can not exclude the possibility that Telstra does manipulate opinion polls.

    End of cut & paste.

    The poll was only up since yesterday and disappeared today instead of the usual one week polling period.

  3. Unfortunately the telstra management treats domestic customers with complete disdain. I doubt that the notion of ethics is ever discussed at the management level. Anonymous -- 25/01/02

    Unfortunately the telstra management treats domestic customers with complete disdain. I doubt that the notion of ethics is ever discussed at the management level.

  4. I think ZDNet should look through the past polls to see if Telstra has sabotaged them at all. Anonymous -- 25/01/02

    I think ZDNet should look through the past polls to see if Telstra has sabotaged them at all.

  5. I'm amazed at ZDNet is blaming Telstra. Mate, you lot were the ones that messed up!!!! Should have coded it better. Probably got some pimply face youth (PFY) to code your pollingp rogram. Shame. Anonymous -- 25/01/02

    I'm amazed at ZDNet is blaming Telstra. Mate, you lot were the ones that messed up!!!!

    Should have coded it better. Probably got some pimply face youth (PFY) to code your pollingp rogram. Shame.

  6. Sharon - That's besides the point. Yes, the poll could have been coded better, but it wouldn't have exposed this kind of pathetic bottom-of-the-barrel-scraping attempt to regain some small shred of credibility. To anyone who's used Telstra's br Anonymous -- 25/01/02

    Sharon - That's besides the point. Yes, the poll could have been coded better, but it wouldn't have exposed this kind of pathetic bottom-of-the-barrel-scraping attempt to regain some small shred of credibility.

    To anyone who's used Telstra's broadband services, they're a company with no morals, no apologies, no cares and have no worries bending their customers over the barrel.

    Pathetic.

  7. Come on ACCC. Do your job. How long will you allow T(H)elstra to abuse its marketing & infastructure monoploy. All ISP's have to suffer because T(H)elstra controls the Broadband network as well as the wired network. If you think switching t Keith Styles -- 25/01/02

    Come on ACCC. Do your job. How long will you allow T(H)elstra to abuse its marketing & infastructure monoploy.
    All ISP's have to suffer because T(H)elstra controls the Broadband network as well as the wired network.
    If you think switching to another ISP will help! forget it.
    With the exception of the Optus cable network (very limited), all ISP's depend on
    T(H)elstra to provide you with a Broadband service.
    I wonder how many IPS's will offer or provide a credit for T(H)elstra's lousy service. My guess is NONE. They will have copied T(H)elstra's contract terms, which lets them off the hook.

    No other company except T(H)elstra, could provide such lousy service without offering customer compensation.

    Tweedle Dumb & Tweedle Dee could do a much better job!

  8. Online polls are suspect as they are so easily manipulated. Whoever sets up polls should ensure that only one vote per IP address is allowed to prevent multiple votes. Better still avoid any user selected polling as it is stastistically worthless. Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Online polls are suspect as they are so easily manipulated. Whoever sets up polls should ensure that only one vote per IP address is allowed to prevent multiple votes. Better still avoid any user selected polling as it is stastistically worthless.

  9. Any poll that is so easily manipulated deserves to be messed with. Any website with half a brain has a poll that users can only vote once on! This is just an opinion poll that means absolutely squat all. Who cares if someone got a laug Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Any poll that is so easily manipulated deserves to be messed with.

    Any website with half a brain has a poll that users can only vote once on!

    This is just an opinion poll that means absolutely squat all. Who cares if someone got a laugh from voting a couple of hundred times.

    And regarding the compensation for down service, there is barely a business anywhere that would do that. I have a dialup account with a small ISP, they don't compensate me when they have problems. No ISp anywhere does. Infact not just ISP's, I can't think of a single business in any industry that would do that.

  10. I bet ZDnet wouldn't have said anything if all those votes had been against telstra! This does seem to be a rather biased site after all. Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    I bet ZDnet wouldn't have said anything if all those votes had been against telstra!

    This does seem to be a rather biased site after all.

  11. Man, and I thought we had it bad here in the US with the whole @home mess-up.. It seems Telstra is trying to charge you guys too much AND convince you that you're pleased with that fact at the same time! The broadband industry needs a severe kic Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Man, and I thought we had it bad here in the US with the whole @home mess-up.. It seems Telstra is trying to charge you guys too much AND convince you that you're pleased with that fact at the same time!

    The broadband industry needs a severe kick in the pants. Is there something about broadband that just draws mismanagement and corruption?

  12. This is ZDNET yet again trying to make excuses for their own bias and lack of technical credibility. It is obvious that your own Poll technology is flawed and perhaps you would be better placed to write a story about how ZDNET does not know how to run a P Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    This is ZDNET yet again trying to make excuses for their own bias and lack of technical credibility. It is obvious that your own Poll technology is flawed and perhaps you would be better placed to write a story about how ZDNET does not know how to run a Poll. Get a life, your leaving yourself open for this sort of stuff and rightfully so people can take advantage of it, and they SHOULD!

    I'm sick of this stupid Bias reporting on ZDNET.

  13. i see a curious prejudice towards (and likely a serious misunderestimation of the abilities of) pimply faces youths everywhere. your average PFY probably could code the polling software better than, say, your average pottymouthed geobiologist. howeve Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    i see a curious prejudice towards (and likely a serious misunderestimation of the abilities of) pimply faces youths everywhere. your average PFY probably could code the polling software better than, say, your average pottymouthed geobiologist.
    however, a simple one-ip=one vote gate would hardly work against telstra, who control more than a few ip's. proving that all online polls are junk. storms of protest, on the other hand...

  14. Exactly, Allen. I'd like to know how so many of these pseudo tech "experts" posting here defending Telstra for some reason would propose that ZDnet make sure that an entire national ISP could not vote multiple times.. You can't say only one vote Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Exactly, Allen. I'd like to know how so many of these pseudo tech "experts" posting here defending Telstra for some reason would propose that ZDnet make sure that an entire national ISP could not vote multiple times.. You can't say only one vote per domain, and like Allen said, the IP address wouldnt matter - Telstra has thousands. If they wanted to rig ANY online poll, they could.

    The question here isn't about the credibility of online polls, but the fact that Telstra is a greedy company who doesn't give a damn about its customers, and will do anything it can to cover up its inadequacies.

    So, please, people.. leave your fake tech elitism at home. Just because you learned some javascript and perl or PHP over a weekend doesn't make you an expert, so you can stop patting yourself on the back now.

  15. Shooting the messenger: im amazed that ZDnet is being criticised by some rather than telstra. It seems that, disturbingly, some people don't see anything wrong with one of australia's largest companies caught cheating. If they cheat on this, what does Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Shooting the messenger: im amazed that ZDnet is being criticised by some rather than telstra. It seems that, disturbingly, some people don't see anything wrong with one of australia's largest companies caught cheating. If they cheat on this, what does it say about their corporate culture, and what else is sanctioned by management?

  16. Simple idea : Next time, don't alert them. Just reset the poll counter, put a big notice on the page that the question has been changed due to suspect voting from such-and-such an IP, belonging to so-and-so, and re-phrase the question in the neg Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Simple idea :

    Next time, don't alert them. Just reset the poll counter, put a big notice on the page that the question has been changed due to suspect voting from such-and-such an IP, belonging to so-and-so, and re-phrase the question in the negative.

    Let their bot script suck on that...

    FWIW, I work for them. Among other things, I install ADSL. Hence the nick and hotmail address...

  17. To Ben Taylor and the tech gurus: ZDNet seems to target this site at techies and a lot of them don't have unique IPs. If you made the poll collect one vote per IP, then only one person sitting inside each Intranet would be able to vote. Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    To Ben Taylor and the tech gurus:

    ZDNet seems to target this site at techies and a lot of them don't have unique IPs. If you made the poll collect one vote per IP, then only one person sitting inside each Intranet would be able to vote.

    No voting system is perfect, so you might as well just check the logs for irregularities when unusual voting patterns appear, as ZDNet obviously does if this story provides any indication.

    Won't comment on the bias business...pretty hard to make that call on Telstra's behalf. The entire Australian media establishment seems to get on its case, and let's face it, they do some pretty questionable stuff.

  18. To Svengali... instead of vote limiting by IP, just put a cookie on their machine. Quick and simple. Typical ZDnet, they whinge at having a poll messed with, but serves them right for having such a crap poll. Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    To Svengali... instead of vote limiting by IP, just put a cookie on their machine. Quick and simple.

    Typical ZDnet, they whinge at having a poll messed with, but serves them right for having such a crap poll.

  19. Is it just me or does John Butler seem to have a serious weed up his arse? Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Is it just me or does John Butler seem to have a serious weed up his arse?

  20. Fer Chrissakes people get off yer high horses! It was likely some bored Tel$tra tech who rigged the poll for the simple reason it was **** easy to do... ZDNet polls are shite, no basic precautions whatsoever! Anyways, as stated ea Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Fer Chrissakes people get off yer high horses!
    It was likely some bored Tel$tra tech who rigged the poll for the simple reason it was **** easy to do...

    ZDNet polls are shite, no basic precautions whatsoever!

    Anyways, as stated earlier, folks who rely on online polls need to get their heads checked.

  21. To Anonymous Heh...I never thought I'd hear someone (figuratively) encourage use of cookies. Anyway cookies can be circumvented too. As I said no poll is perfect; the best you can do is watch for suspicious activity. Anyway getting on Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    To Anonymous

    Heh...I never thought I'd hear someone (figuratively) encourage use of cookies. Anyway cookies can be circumvented too. As I said no poll is perfect; the best you can do is watch for suspicious activity.

    Anyway getting on my high-horse, I can't understand why anyone would attack the messenger in this instance. It seems that it's more important to put the technical integrity of the survey under examinaiton than recognise just how cynical and corrupt one of our largest corporate entities can be.

    To take an extreme example, last september you didn't hear anyone saying "Damn those idtiots had it coming, building them towers so high. Anyone can see that you can fly a plane into them!"

    Frankly it's profoundly idiotic and you deserve every bit of crap that unscrupulous corporate organisations dish out.

  22. To Anonymous: > instead of vote limiting by IP, just put a cookie on their machine. Quick and simple. "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." --H. L. Mencken You don't se Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    To Anonymous:

    > instead of vote limiting by IP, just put a cookie on their machine. Quick and simple.

    "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." --H. L. Mencken

    You don't seem to have any understanding about the mechanics of cookies. In general, no security mechanism that depends on the client to behave honestly can possibly work; in particular, clients are not required to accept cookies or submit them untampered-with to the server. Nor are cookies stored by the "machine", but optionally stored by the web client in use. This poll manipulation was performed using a custom-written client: not accepting cookies would involve no work at all, and modifying their values would be simple.

    The short version of the long story is that there is absolutely no way to code an unriggable poll given the various limitations imposed by HTTP, cookies, proxies, NAT and so on. However I wait with bated breath for the geologist to post her solution.

  23. To Mark Auder... you said: "This poll manipulation was performed using a custom-written client". I beg to differ. I just tried. All you have to do is vote, then refresh your brower window to re-vote. It's that simple. Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    To Mark Auder... you said: "This poll manipulation was performed using a custom-written client".

    I beg to differ. I just tried. All you have to do is vote, then refresh your brower window to re-vote. It's that simple.

  24. To Anonymous: Oh come now, this is just passing from the sublime to the ridiculous. When you manage to vote over 280 times with your browser, every second on the second, please let us know. Until then it's safe to assume that it was automated. Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    To Anonymous:

    Oh come now, this is just passing from the sublime to the ridiculous. When you manage to vote over 280 times with your browser, every second on the second, please let us know. Until then it's safe to assume that it was automated. But hey, if you start voting now you'll be done in just under five minutes.

  25. To Mark Auder, I think it can be done a couple of times a second, even if it doesn't, and still takes 5 whole minutes (such a staggering length of time), it just proves it's possible to rig a ZDnet poll in less time than it takes to take a dunny break! Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    To Mark Auder, I think it can be done a couple of times a second, even if it doesn't, and still takes 5 whole minutes (such a staggering length of time), it just proves it's possible to rig a ZDnet poll in less time than it takes to take a dunny break!

  26. The issue is that Telstra has once again shown that they are willing to do anything, and not the technical intricacies of poll rigging. Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    The issue is that Telstra has once again shown that they are willing to do anything, and not the technical intricacies of poll rigging.

  27. Makes The Register again: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/23834.html Let's wait for their next bungle, any thoughts on how they can outdo themselves? Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Makes The Register again:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/23834.html

    Let's wait for their next bungle, any thoughts on how they can outdo themselves?

  28. Vote: "Should Telstra stop riggin opinion polls?" Hermes -- 26/01/02

    Vote: "Should Telstra stop riggin opinion polls?"

  29. Not just the Register, NeoWin as well http://neowin.net/comments.php?category=main&id=2568 Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Not just the Register, NeoWin as well

    http://neowin.net/comments.php?category=main&id=2568

  30. Telstra's rigging episode does seem to make the rounds. http://www.eyo.com.au/news.shtml Anonymous -- 26/01/02

    Telstra's rigging episode does seem to make the rounds.

    http://www.eyo.com.au/news.shtml

  31. If Telstra has admitted to something as foolish as this, I would recommend ZDNet demand to investigate telstra's actions during it's customer service poll they did a while ago that questioned customer satisfaction. Maybe they rigged that too? If so it i Ashley Caire -- 27/01/02

    If Telstra has admitted to something as foolish as this, I would recommend ZDNet demand to investigate telstra's actions during it's customer service poll they did a while ago that questioned customer satisfaction. Maybe they rigged that too? If so it is definately something to prosecute them for!

  32. you wankers posting your pro-telstra comments here can p!@$# off as well! how stupid do you think the public are? stay tuned everyone, i've had enough of these losers and their practices. i will post online here a new domain where the focus will Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    you wankers posting your pro-telstra comments here can p!@$# off as well! how stupid do you think the public are?

    stay tuned everyone, i've had enough of these losers and their practices. i will post online here a new domain where the focus will be anti-telstra.

    the myriad of lies, deceptions, cheats and other unethical practices by telstra has to stop NOW!. anyone wondered why their modem suddenly stops working when just out of contract?

    this, and more details from ex-telstra workers will be found within...

    joe public

  33. To Ashley Caire... Thats not what the article says. It says telstra admits that someone within it's ranks did it. As someone else has already suggested, it was probably just some bored tech amused at how easy it was to vote multiple times. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    To Ashley Caire... Thats not what the article says. It says telstra admits that someone within it's ranks did it. As someone else has already suggested, it was probably just some bored tech amused at how easy it was to vote multiple times.

  34. Would I expect any different from a Telstra crook, than this? "To Ashley Caire... Thats not what the article says. It says telstra admits that someone within it's ranks did it. As someone else has already suggested, it was probably just s Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    Would I expect any different from a Telstra crook, than this?

    "To Ashley Caire... Thats not what the article says. It says telstra admits that someone within it's ranks did it. As someone else has already suggested, it was probably just some bored tech amused at how easy it was to vote multiple times."

  35. To Sharon Putney Please post your code here in the talkbacks, which prevents vote rigging and does not exclude entire Intranets, with potentially several hundred users, from casting their vote. Show us the code! Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    To Sharon Putney

    Please post your code here in the talkbacks, which prevents vote rigging and does not exclude entire Intranets, with potentially several hundred users, from casting their vote.

    Show us the code!

  36. As someone else pointed out, an Anti-Telstra site is needed. That way we can better expose Telstra's business practices and can improve lobbying efforts against the criminally acting abuser. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    As someone else pointed out, an Anti-Telstra site is needed.

    That way we can better expose Telstra's business practices and can improve lobbying efforts against the criminally acting abuser.

  37. Thera alreafdy are quite a few anti-telstra sites, including: http://www.telstraexposed.com/home/default.asp I wonder what is rotten in the culture of such a company that it brings out such enormous resentment. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    Thera alreafdy are quite a few anti-telstra sites, including:

    http://www.telstraexposed.com/home/default.asp

    I wonder what is rotten in the culture of such a company that it brings out such enormous resentment.

  38. this is no surprise really, Telstra needs to get their act together. I'm still waiting on a call from higher management in their broadband service to talk to me about why I ring up and complain. I'm still waiting on the call, it's like all compl Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    this is no surprise really, Telstra needs to get their act together. I'm still waiting on a call from higher management in their broadband service to talk to me about why I ring up and complain.

    I'm still waiting on the call, it's like all complaints to them, fly through the tech supports ears, and just hit a garbage bin overflowing with complaints on the other side.

  39. TELSTRA ARE NOTHING BUT COMMON THIEVES RENE -- 27/01/02

    TELSTRA ARE NOTHING BUT COMMON THIEVES

  40. TELSTRA ARE NOTHING BUT COMMON THIEVES RENE -- 27/01/02

    TELSTRA ARE NOTHING BUT COMMON THIEVES

  41. i was the one who voted the only "yes" by mistake, i thought i click on no, and by the time i saw it the vote went threw :( bigpond is such a joke, along with the ACCC Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    i was the one who voted the only "yes" by mistake, i thought i click on no, and by the time i saw it the vote went threw :(

    bigpond is such a joke, along with the ACCC

  42. It wasn't Sickky after all! The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster. Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    It wasn't Sickky after all!

    The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster.

    Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up.

  43. It wasn't Sickky after all! The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster. Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    It wasn't Sickky after all!

    The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster.

    Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up.

  44. It wasn't Sickky after all! The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster. Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    It wasn't Sickky after all!

    The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster.

    Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up.

  45. It wasn't Sickky after all! The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster. Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    It wasn't Sickky after all!

    The one yes vote happend by mistake according to the previous poster.

    Thanks to the previous poster for clearing that up.

  46. Interesting discussion of telstra broadband: http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=163 Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    Interesting discussion of telstra broadband:

    http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=163

  47. this is great....according to opinions here, i can walk into my nearest supermarket and fill my backpack and pockets with all sorts of things and then walk out without paying. you see my nearest supermarket doesnt have security cameras or buzzers. in fact happyhappy -- 27/01/02

    this is great....according to opinions here, i can walk into my nearest supermarket and fill my backpack and pockets with all sorts of things and then walk out without paying. you see my nearest supermarket doesnt have security cameras or buzzers. in fact..if it was ever traced back to me that i stole some things, everyone would blame the supermarket!!!!

  48. Interesting analogy... The not by Telstra OFFICIALLY endorsed comments suggest, that the blame should be aimed at John Butler as well as ZDnet. Anonymous -- 27/01/02

    Interesting analogy...

    The not by Telstra OFFICIALLY endorsed comments suggest, that the blame should be aimed at John Butler as well as ZDnet.

  49. Further to my previous post. Our own Survey. Lets find a new and meaningful name for Australia's premium ISP. I'll go first to give you some direction. 1. Big Poo. 2. Big **** Little Puddle. 4. Hellstra. 5. Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    Further to my previous post.
    Our own Survey.
    Lets find a new and meaningful name for Australia's premium ISP.
    I'll go first to give you some direction.

    1. Big Poo.
    2. Big ****
    3. Little Puddle.
    4. Hellstra.
    5. Shaftra.
    6. Bid **** in a little pond.
    7. Big Cesspool.
    8. Uncapped-unavailable.

    Come on guys give me a hand.

  50. I like the fact that such fraudulant behaviour comes to light (sometimes)! Since the senseless 3GB limit was introduced, I've monitored my usage every day. At the end of december I had 2997MB of 'un-rated usage'. When I came back from holidays ( Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    I like the fact that such fraudulant behaviour comes to light (sometimes)!

    Since the senseless 3GB limit was introduced, I've monitored my usage every day. At the end of december I had 2997MB of 'un-rated usage'. When I came back from holidays (Jan 7th) I found I was only measured to have used about 2250mb (rated usage) for the December month.
    How the *F* am I meant to manage that?

    Telstra's policy is a scam, considering the usage of their smallish group of cable users versus the obviously huge amount of traffic on their supposed Australian Internet Backbone.

    I also wonder if they stopped to consider the extra traffic WinXP generates? It all adds up.

    Thanks ZDNet for the article. Where can I throw such abuse at Telstra?

  51. To happyhappy, Are you suggesting Telstra should fulfill some sort of role in kerbing theft/piracy by introducing download limits? I'd say they've effectively started selling stolen goods instead. ACCC I'd write to you if you had a clue. Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    To happyhappy,
    Are you suggesting Telstra should fulfill some sort of role in kerbing theft/piracy by introducing download limits?
    I'd say they've effectively started selling stolen goods instead.
    ACCC I'd write to you if you had a clue.

  52. My bank uses a security measure where it monitors the movement of the mouse, and after x amount of moves, decides that there really IS a human on the other end- maybe all polls should follow suite? Julian Milano -- 29/01/02

    My bank uses a security measure where it monitors the movement of the mouse, and after x amount of moves, decides that there really IS a human on the other end- maybe all polls should follow suite?

  53. If Telstra really was "looking into it", I find it difficult to believe that the same poll rigger could strike again within such a short interval. How hard is it to trace someone up to no good on an intranet... let alone on a fixed IP address? N Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    If Telstra really was "looking into it", I find it difficult to believe that the same poll rigger could strike again within such a short interval. How hard is it to trace someone up to no good on an intranet... let alone on a fixed IP address? Not very. I'd suggest Big Pong know damn well who the culprit was... and they weren't overly concerned about getting caught either...

  54. The code? Just cookie anyone who votes. It's not unhackable, but makes it difficult enough to thwart most attempts at rigging a poll. You can see an example of this at: http://au.news.yahoo.com/ Vote once and return to the page - you can't vote twice Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    The code? Just cookie anyone who votes. It's not unhackable, but makes it difficult enough to thwart most attempts at rigging a poll. You can see an example of this at: http://au.news.yahoo.com/
    Vote once and return to the page - you can't vote twice while you have the cookie.

    I think the more serious issue here is that the media shouldnt be using their own audience polling as "research" to base stories on. All an audience poll tells you is a little about what a small sample of the (already smallish online) audience of ZDNet thinks about something - not really representative of anything meaningful from the total AU internet audience and certainly not of the total AU PC using audience.

    As we are all readers who I'd imagine are 'smarter than the average bear' we too should be taking any online polls with a grain of salt. If you dont know the difference between accurate audience research and an online poll in ZDNet, do yourself a favour and at least use the internet to learn more about how real audience research is done! :-)

  55. Nice one guys. No doubt you already saw the whole debacle made it to page 3 of today's Fin. (29.01.02) At least there's one Telstra employee who won't be fired... Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    Nice one guys.
    No doubt you already saw the whole debacle made it to page 3 of today's Fin. (29.01.02)

    At least there's one Telstra employee who won't be fired...

  56. I have had to go through my internet/e-mail/system options with Telstra Bigpond so many times that I have become an expert. My "expert opinion" then of Bigpond's ISP service and customer service is: "Avoid using Bigpond as your ISP at all c Eric Imbs -- 29/01/02

    I have had to go through my internet/e-mail/system options with Telstra Bigpond so many times that I have become an expert. My "expert opinion" then of Bigpond's ISP service and customer service is: "Avoid using Bigpond as your ISP at all costs. I am stuck with them and never been more dissatisfied with an ISP."

    Telstra's competence lies in sales, not after sales support and follow up.

  57. isp's do not need to use telstra's adsl network to provide broadband, any isp or carries for that matter is able to utilize the last mile via connection points inside the exchanges that connect back to their network via frame/ULL links and who g anonymous -- 29/01/02

    isp's do not need to use telstra's adsl network to provide broadband, any isp or carries for that matter is able to utilize the last mile via connection points inside the exchanges that connect back to their network via frame/ULL links

    and who give a flying rats about a poll, for &^%&^ sake its like pulling stats on anything,if there is any chance to manipulat then they will be

    and to compensation !! , read the fine print / terms of use for any isp and you can garentee that they all mention they are not responsible for outages or something similar

  58. Any BOZO's here? http://www.theage.com.au/business/2002/01/29/FFX9O565ZWC.html Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    Any BOZO's here?

    http://www.theage.com.au/business/2002/01/29/FFX9O565ZWC.html

  59. The telstra tech that did the "rigging" has been fired. anonymous co-worker -- 29/01/02

    The telstra tech that did the "rigging" has been fired.

  60. To alan: Cookies can not ensure that people only vote once. It can only prevent non technical people form voting more than once, and even that is a big maybe. For techies the cookies are no hurdle at all and your example web site is no more v Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    To alan: Cookies can not ensure that people only vote once. It can only prevent non technical people form voting more than once, and even that is a big maybe.

    For techies the cookies are no hurdle at all and your example web site is no more vote rigging proof than ZDnet's poll.

    The bottomline is that if anyone sets up a poll there will be plenty of people who know how to circumvent the (including your) security measures.

    However the discussion seems be side tracked to irrelevancy.

    The issue is Telstra's way of conducting business.

  61. While the Telstra employee who tried to rig the poll undoubtedly did the wrong thing and Telstra has to wear some of the blame. To me the issue is how much credibility should you put in these polls. There is absolutely no science to them. To me they have Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    While the Telstra employee who tried to rig the poll undoubtedly did the wrong thing and Telstra has to wear some of the blame. To me the issue is how much credibility should you put in these polls. There is absolutely no science to them. To me they have as much credibility as the "polls" you see on A Current Affair or listening to John Laws.

  62. i belive that telstra is so over priced when i get the same service as telstra at a cheaper price as far as i am concerned all telstra is worried about is how $$$$$$$$ they make at the end of the day and not supporting its customerslike any good companys Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    i belive that telstra is so over priced when i get the same service as telstra at a cheaper price as far as i am concerned all telstra is worried about is how $$$$$$$$ they make at the end of the day and not supporting its customerslike any good companys do as far as i am concerned i will never use telstra and i hope other will boycot it aswell...

  63. of course telstra is interested i $$, have your heard of privatisation, you bloody idiots why do you think everyone is in the position they are in now, i remember before privatisation when it was free to get a phone in, now because of the government it is Anonymous -- 29/01/02

    of course telstra is interested i $$, have your heard of privatisation, you bloody idiots why do you think everyone is in the position they are in now, i remember before privatisation when it was free to get a phone in, now because of the government it is illegal for them to do anything for free because it is anti-competative !! , i cant wait till its all sold can you ?? fools

  64. I've just cancelled my Bigpond account which I have had for over 3 years. I'm fed up with constant bad service and arrogant tech support. Now they expect me to PAY MORE for it? Yeah right! Steve Robinson -- 30/01/02

    I've just cancelled my Bigpond account which I have had for over 3 years. I'm fed up with constant bad service and arrogant tech support. Now they expect me to PAY MORE for it? Yeah right!

  65. PETITION? Ok, Ok, Ok. So we all agree we are not satisfied with our sole domestic broadband supplier, right? In effect we are shareholders, right? If I suggested we show Telstra our feelings with our feet because of their uncapped Anonymous -- 31/01/02

    PETITION?

    Ok, Ok, Ok.
    So we all agree we are not satisfied with our sole domestic broadband supplier, right?
    In effect we are shareholders, right?
    If I suggested we show Telstra our feelings with our feet because of their uncapped-unavailable service they would "buck-up", however, since we are the wusses we are and having had a taste of broadband over dial-up it is near impossible to go back.
    I propose ZDnet post a survey to see how many BB users would back-up the seniments expressed on these pages, any takers?
    Personally I like BB when its working, however, I don't like playing football while someone keeps moving the goalposts to the goalie's advantage.

  66. Get real Telstraphiles!!! I was formally subscribed to Telstra BigPond. Frankly, never have I had to pay such overpriced amounts for a service in my life. It was not impossible for me to get quarterly bills for the Internet alone of $3 Anonymous -- 01/02/02

    Get real Telstraphiles!!!

    I was formally subscribed to Telstra BigPond. Frankly, never have I had to pay such overpriced amounts for a service in my life.

    It was not impossible for me to get quarterly bills for the Internet alone of $300-400, and that was with the option to integrate the internet bill with the Phone (Their offer to reduce the overall amount on the bill) What crap!!

    As far as plans were concerned, I only had the choice of one due to my rural location. It was either that, or pay STD rates!!! At that time, I didn't know there was any other choice of ISP in my area.

    I use the same internet hours now as I did with BigPond, except with OzeMail's OzeShout plan, and only pay $24.95 a month. NO...I DO NOT work for OzeMail or any of their associated companies...I am a student. But credit where credit's due (Or not as the case may be!!!)

    It's actually a good thing that ZDNet's poll wasn't airtight, as Telstra wouldn't have been caught in the act of Poll rigging. The IP address of the Bot WAS traced to Telstra after all.

    ZDNet had no part of it. The ball is in Telstra's court now to investigate the matter, but if I can help steer other potential customers away from them, I will.

  67. I work for Telstra mobiles in Adelaide and as an insider can tell you that bigpond is one of the hardest products to sell, because of its prices and also on the plans Telstra doesn't have unlimited download plans for residential or commercial.Another thi Anonymous -- 02/02/02

    I work for Telstra mobiles in Adelaide and as an insider can tell you that bigpond is one of the hardest products to sell, because of its prices and also on the plans Telstra doesn't have unlimited download plans for residential or commercial.Another thing consumers may need to look at with Telstra services is the fact that, Telstra wireless and data services and its G.P.R.S. and W.A.P. services are on a very slow network (let alone that south australia hasn't had any W.A.P. service all week)an average of 53.3bps, whereas most nokia and ericsson mobiles on the network run at around 80.0 bps.Please understand I am not a whinger who is out to have a pop at my employer, but a consumer just like everyone who reads this site regularly,but if you think bigpond is expensive look at the prices of broadband at telstra.com/multimedia/broadband

  68. This is yet another example of big business deceiving the public. Nationalize the bastards, and put the power back in the hands of the people. VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!! Anonymous -- 02/02/02

    This is yet another example of big business deceiving the public. Nationalize the bastards, and put the power back in the hands of the people. VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!

  69. I was reading how some Telstra guy was saying about the 85% of people who are not using the 3 gigs a month,where are they and why don't we hear from them?!I find that The whole idea of cable was to get fast downloads and was ideal for many people who do a Anonymous -- 02/02/02

    I was reading how some Telstra guy was saying about the 85% of people who are not using the 3 gigs a month,where are they and why don't we hear from them?!I find that The whole idea of cable was to get fast downloads and was ideal for many people who do a lot of downloading etc.This idiot who says the ones cpmplaining are the ones who are excessively using it,well hey buddy,how can you say that when most here signed up under an unlimited plan!!what a fool!.Unlimited meant just that not to be slapped with a new plan which started charging people per damn meg after a lousey 3 gigs!!.The service has not been that great Telstra!come on,the lagging etc,outages,do you think it is worth more then you promised us?hell no!!like most here who have been with other servers if you don't like the service you get the hell out,but unfortunately when your under a "so called" contract your suppose to stick to it,well what about Telstra sticking to their side of the contract too?what the hell gives them the rights to change a contract halfway in the middle of it?somethings not right with that and I do believe that the law should be not so leniant on these money grabbers.I would like to see this go to court,I have a huge bill that im suppose to pay and refuse to!I signed a contract to pay so much a month for unlimited and thats what I expect to pay..how many more people here have been slapped with a huge bill?I say,lets stand up to these greedy bludgers!!

  70. I have one thing to say..in protest of this all here who go through telstra for their phone bills change to another,get rid of these blood sucking leaches !!I am tired of the rich getting richer and the average guy losing out every time,I'm changing my ph Anonymous -- 02/02/02

    I have one thing to say..in protest of this all here who go through telstra for their phone bills change to another,get rid of these blood sucking leaches !!I am tired of the rich getting richer and the average guy losing out every time,I'm changing my phone calls today...why dont you all do the same!

  71. Its been my misfortune to suffer log outs,calls that dont connect,"because TELSTRAS down","i still get charged a connection fee"!!!for this,and now they have the audacity to charge an extra $4.00 for the same service or Go on a 12mth c Anonymous -- 02/02/02

    Its been my misfortune to suffer log outs,calls that dont connect,"because TELSTRAS down","i still get charged a connection fee"!!!for this,and now they have the audacity to charge an extra $4.00 for the same service or Go on a 12mth contract with a cancellation fee of $299.

    WHAT A JOKE!!!!!111