Windows more stable than Linux: Stratus

Server manufacturer Stratus Technologies is banking on Windows becoming the dominant server operating system of choice, claiming that companies should chose the propriety software for its stability.

Stephen Kiely, the chairman of Stratus Technologies told ZDNet Australia   it is "an open book" whether Linux or Windows will eventually dominate the server market, but Stratus has thrown its lot in with Microsoft.

"It's better. Contrary to public opinion it's more stable," said Kiely. While this comment would raise a howl of protest from open source proponents pointing at the history of the two operating systems, Kiely stands his ground. "Things always look different through the rear vision mirror than out the windscreen."

Kiely agrees with the description of NT4 as "terrible", but claims the next generation of Windows is getting better every month. Kiely said Stratus helps Microsoft test Windows 2000, and claims over 99.999 percent uptime, or less than five minutes of downtime per year.

IBM, possibly the largest proponent of open source systems, disagrees that Windows 2000 is more stable than Linux but won't go as far as to say that Linux is more stable than Windows. "A well-run managed system is more stable than a non-well-run managed system," Peter Hedges, X-series product specialist for IBM Asia Pacific told ZDNet Australia.

"I don't think you can point to one system and say it's worse than the other," said Hedges.

Stratus has backed up its position with a US$100,000 payment if a business experiences any unplanned downtime, but limits this to its top of the line ftServer 6500 series running Windows 2000 Advanced Server covered by Stratus Business Critical ftService.

However, Stratus aren't completely certain Microsoft will destroy Linux, and are planning a Linux offering in about a year. Two channel partners already ship Linux with Stratus hardware. The main edge Linux has over Windows is its similarity to Unix, according to Kiely.

"One thing where Linux is better is Microsoft doesn't have the Unix culture," he said. "[The Unix culture] is going to be much more comfortable on Linux, and the applications will port more easily to Linux than to Windows." However, he added Linux is "based on 70's Unix", and doesn't fit well on modern computers.

Hedges agrees a Unix background is a contributing factor in the decision of many firms to choose Linux over Windows. "If you've got a customer that wants to decommission an old Sun server, it may be that their preference leans towards Linux," he said. However, he disagrees that this is the only advantage Linux has.

"We can run Linux on a huge variety of platforms and architectures," said Hedges.

Stratus Technologies is a small player in the server market, with just 0.39 percent of the value share for the first three quarters of 2002, according to IDC. During the first three quarters of 2001 Stratus owned 0.03 percent of the market value, so has grown by 1187.8 percent.

Stratus hopes to increase market share due to a recent change in hardware strategy. For 20 years the company had produced servers containing 90 percent of components proprietary to Stratus. Around 18 months ago, they switched to 90 percent Intel technology and reduced the prices of servers to around a tenth of their previous cost.

"The Intel cost advantages get sharper every year," said Kiely. "With the capabilities they offer why would you want to go back to legacy?"

In absolute terms, Kiely said Stratus has sold 1,200 servers in the year to January, and on a dollar basis sold US$45 million in the previous five quarters.

Visit these pages for ZDNet Australia's comprehensive coverage of Linux and Windows.

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Talkback 30 comments

    Stupid FUD-spewing server vendors... "Stability" != "Security" Even if Linux is some miniscule percentage less stable, it is about 5000% more secure. Peer-reviewed code wins hands down.Anonymous -- 24/02/03

    Stupid FUD-spewing server vendors...
    "Stability" != "Security"
    Even if Linux is some miniscule percentage less stable, it is about 5000% more secure. Peer-reviewed code wins hands down.

    Peer reviewed code does not mean that it's inherantly secure. You live with blinders on if you truly believe that. It simply means that peers can review the code. To reiterate what is said in the article, a well-run server of EITHER platform iAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    Peer reviewed code does not mean that it's inherantly secure. You live with blinders on if you truly believe that. It simply means that peers can review the code.

    To reiterate what is said in the article, a well-run server of EITHER platform is better than a not-well-run server. For example, if you take a linux expert's server up against a windows idiot's server, which is going to be more secure?

    Or to put a finer point on it, if you have a linux and a windows server side by side and both with all ports turned off, which is really more secure? They are the SAME. Enablement of ports enables the possibility of vulnerabilities; any knowledgeable admin knows that.

    I can point to hundreds of flaws in sendmail alone to dictate a flaw in the "peer-reviewed" code alone. Microsoft has flaws too. So what .. inherantly they are the same.

    lets take a hard look here i must say windows has improved greatly in 2000 and up but i have purchesed win3.1, win95, win98, & w2k total price , about 500$ linux is only in its "second" generation in my opinion witch wouAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    lets take a hard look here
    i must say windows has improved greatly in 2000 and up
    but i have purchesed win3.1, win95, win98, & w2k
    total price , about 500$
    linux is only in its "second" generation in my opinion witch would compair it to win95
    and hasn`t had anywhere near the kind of money pumped into it that windows has
    the problem i see now is lazy companies not properly supporting their products on it
    for example i have an audigy card and it sort of works but creative doesn`t have real support for it
    where my nvidia ti4600 was easy to install with drivers provided by nvidia
    my point here is linux isn`t properly backed and is still in its infantsy, where windows has had lots of cash dumped into it and only now is really stable

    I have alot of experience with both Operating Systems in a corporate environment. The stability of linux is excellent the only operating system we have that can match it is solaris. Windows 2000 is alot better than Windows NT but still is not as reliable Anonymous -- 25/02/03

    I have alot of experience with both Operating Systems in a corporate environment. The stability of linux is excellent the only operating system we have that can match it is solaris. Windows 2000 is alot better than Windows NT but still is not as reliable as linux. Then there is the fact that we now pay nothing for our webserver, file & printserver and email system. Compared to the license fees that we were paying. And then to top it off, we get threatening letters from microsoft and the BSA. Microsoft can take their licenses and put them where the sun don't shine! It cost us nothing except one box set of RedHat to convert most our intel servers to linux. And we hired no additional personnel to support it. This is because as a system administrator my job is to keep up with technologies and not just rely on a MCSE certification. To be successful with any technology it takes good people to make it happen. Not good marketing on the behalf of your suppliers.

    They don't use windows! Look at http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.stratus.comAnthony Awtrey -- 25/02/03

    They don't use windows! Look at http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.stratus.com

    I think it's time for them to eat their own dog food. They need to run their site with MS server and MS ISS virus engine. Then, I'm sure, they will have a different opinion.Anonymous -- 25/02/03

    I think it's time for them to eat their own dog food. They need to run their site with MS server and MS ISS virus engine. Then, I'm sure, they will have a different opinion.

    Vewy intwesting. Netcraft says... "The site www.stratus.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 on HP-UX.The site www.stratus.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 on HP-UX." 1.) They're not ruAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    Vewy intwesting.

    Netcraft says...

    "The site www.stratus.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 on HP-UX.The site www.stratus.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 on HP-UX."

    1.) They're not running Windoze 2.) They're not using the servers they are selling.

    see the newsforge comments about this article: http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/03/02/24/1513251.shtml?tid=3Anonymous -- 25/02/03

    see the newsforge comments about this article:
    http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/03/02/24/1513251.shtml?tid=3

    Then why does Stratus use HP-UX and apache for their server? Maybe the tech's know alot more than marketing?Anonymous -- 25/02/03

    Then why does Stratus use HP-UX and apache for their server? Maybe the tech's know alot more than marketing?

    that must be a joke. m$-bugOS is more stable and they're using: Operating System and Web Server for www.stratus.com Help On The site www.stratus.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 on HP-UX. FAQ ApaFS/OSS -- 25/02/03

    that must be a joke.

    m$-bugOS is more stable and they're using:

    Operating System and Web Server for www.stratus.com Help On

    The site www.stratus.com is running Apache/1.3.12 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 on HP-UX. FAQ

    Apache is also being used by Rackspace, Superb Internet, AIT and Dialtone Internet

    Do you want to look for an SSL site at www.stratus.com ?
    Uptime Charts and Statistics for www.stratus.com

    You ppl must be really getting desperate for arguments when you start getting excited over the web server they're running... get a life ppl! Most companies do not host their own web site, due to the maintenance costs... it is far cheaper to outsource thaAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    You ppl must be really getting desperate for arguments when you start getting excited over the web server they're running... get a life ppl! Most companies do not host their own web site, due to the maintenance costs... it is far cheaper to outsource that to other companies dedicated to the task. I don't see how this has any bearing on the statements made by Stratus. It's really quite amusing how the Linux fanboys get all religious over a F%#KING operating system... ALL OSes can be both stable and secure with the right administrator.

    Of course windows is more stable than Linux This is no surprice. You just have to measure stability in the right way to realize that. Actually it is extremly rare for a windows server to unexpectedly go dow between two reboots (e.g for installiAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    Of course windows is more stable than Linux This is no surprice. You just have to measure stability in the right way to realize that.

    Actually it is extremly rare for a windows server to unexpectedly go dow between two reboots (e.g for installing service packs). But then again, even Linux can stay alive for two days. In fact it is not rare for it to stay alive for several months even if your sysadmin is a total newbie. And a lot better if your sysadmin knows what he is doing.

    To get the availability they talk about in windows you need to use massively redundant systems if you count reboot time for maintainance. That means redundant hardware and redundant software licenses. So getting it will be extremly expensive. Probably just as expensive as some high end propriatory unix system. And even at that price Windows will still be harder to manage and maintain than Unix.

    But yes, Windows can have higher availability than Unix/Linux you just need to pay a little more to get it.
    But I suppose you could get the software for free and sponsored hardware from MS if you have some high profile project, at least for the initial installation. What happens when you need to upgrade might be another matter.

    Oh my what ignorance. It's simply amazing! :) If I had the money to get one of their servers I would get me $100,000 inside of a month. I've work in IT departments from 25 seats to 10,000 seats and I can personally attest to the fact tAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    Oh my what ignorance. It's simply amazing! :)

    If I had the money to get one of their servers I would get me $100,000 inside of a month.

    I've work in IT departments from 25 seats to 10,000 seats and I can personally attest to the fact that a Win2k server stays up no more than 1 month at a time EVER! And that's with everything from Top MS people working on problems to actual MS tech from redmond working on problems and NEVER EVER being able to keep a MS server up for more than a month at a time.

    Now I'm talking unscheduled downtime here. Scheduled downtime I give an MS server about a 1 week uptime due to patches and/or other problems.

    Most companies I work with end up setting a Friday evening or Sat schedule to bounce their MS servers to head off problems before they happen. So sure if this $100k agreement goes STRICTLY on unscheduled downtime they might not have to pay out because most companies have a scheduled time to bounce their MS servers so they don't crash later. If the $100k pays out for just continous run I'd be paid inside of a month. And that I promise you.

    Yeah, well if windows is so stable, why does their web site run *nix? http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.stratus.com I would like to see how they would explain this.Anonymous -- 25/02/03

    Yeah, well if windows is so stable, why does their web site run *nix?

    http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.stratus.com

    I would like to see how they would explain this.

    Jason Green: You did notice these people sell servers right? while most companies use outside hosting, most server manufacturers and sellers run their own. For instance, sun runs their servers on netscape iplanet server (their server)Anonymous -- 25/02/03

    Jason Green:

    You did notice these people sell servers right? while most companies use outside hosting, most server manufacturers and sellers run their own.

    For instance, sun runs their servers on netscape iplanet server (their server) running on solaris (their OS).

    However, if anyone had bothered to notice, these folks sell HPUX machines AND windows machines, so running their own domain (they're listed as the site hosting IP block owner, so I assume they do) on HPUX is quite reasonable. and a lot smarter than using IIS.

    Of course, they're still using apache 1.3.12 which has some pretty severe holes in it, so I'm not sure I'd trust them with keeping my server OS up to date, something vitally important if I were to be forced into using Windows servers.

    Ok, few of us here said that www.stratus.com is web-hosted some where else. According my findings, the web server is in their domain. Quite interesting isn't it :). % ping www.stratus.com PING ispolo1.stratus.com (192.52.248.194): 56 data bAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    Ok, few of us here said that www.stratus.com is web-hosted some where else. According my findings, the web server is in their domain. Quite interesting isn't it :).

    % ping www.stratus.com
    PING ispolo1.stratus.com (192.52.248.194): 56 data bytes

    % whois 192.52.248.194
    OrgName: Stratus Computer, Inc.
    OrgID: STRATU-6
    Address: 111 Powder Mill Road
    City: Maynard
    StateProv: MA
    PostalCode: 01754
    Country: US

    NetRange: 192.52.248.0 - 192.52.248.255
    CIDR: 192.52.248.0/24
    NetName: STRATUS-C2
    NetHandle: NET-192-52-248-0-1
    Parent: NET-192-0-0-0-0
    NetType: Direct Assignment
    NameServer: NITRO.STRATUS.COM
    NameServer: NUCLEAR.STRATUS.COM
    NameServer: NIC.NEAR.NET
    ===strip===

    5 minutes downtime a year. They must not be patching that server. Virtually every security patch for win2k requires a reboot. which takes a couple of minutes, and we all know how often new patches are released. I have never been able to run a windows box Anonymous -- 25/02/03

    5 minutes downtime a year. They must not be patching that server. Virtually every security patch for win2k requires a reboot. which takes a couple of minutes, and we all know how often new patches are released. I have never been able to run a windows box long enough to see how stable it really is, because of the patches. I have novell boxes though that have been up for over a year, even two on a couple.

    They are using fail-over clustering technology. If one of the servers is down, then other server will take and continue it's jobs or services, so they can patch/reboot one system without any service disruption. This also can be easily done in Linux or othAnonymous -- 25/02/03

    They are using fail-over clustering technology. If one of the servers is down, then other server will take and continue it's jobs or services, so they can patch/reboot one system without any service disruption. This also can be easily done in Linux or other UNIX systems too. Even my single CPU Linux server have better uptime then their systems.

    From the site, their Availability definition is

    * Availability of the Stratus ftServer family is computed and updated daily based on all reported service incidents over the preceding 6 month period

    Question: Why they limited to only 6 months period?, where other Unix based OSes can go up to 100% of uptime for years.

    What's the big deal? A marginal company that bet once on a losing proprietary strategy, is betting again on a losing proprietary strategy. Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Windows will lose in their segment for the same reCurt Wuollet -- 25/02/03

    What's the big deal? A marginal company that bet once on a losing proprietary strategy, is betting again on a losing proprietary strategy. Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
    Windows will lose in their segment for the same reasons their overpriced, low value, equation didn't work for hardware. The only surprise is that they can't see the parallel. They didn't see cheap SMP and NUMA hardware coming and they don't see OSS coming. I wouldn't buy stock if I were you.

    How many security updates, service packs, hot fixes and the like require reboots annually? Do they take more than five minutes? Many, and yes. Get real.charles boyer -- 26/02/03

    How many security updates, service packs, hot fixes and the like require reboots annually? Do they take more than five minutes? Many, and yes. Get real.

    The next time some dope tells you an OS isn't modern because it's based on 25 year old technology ask them if they've heard of McIntoshClay Mitchell -- 26/02/03

    The next time some dope tells you an OS isn't modern because it's based on 25 year old technology ask them if they've heard of McIntosh

    5 9's in a WINDOWS Server Environment. You got to be Kidding!!! I have server/Gateways running LINUX on a 75Mhz Pentium for close to 500 days!!! What is that ....100%/Year?? That is an easy $100.000 for any Company buying the Server from StAnonymous -- 26/02/03

    5 9's in a WINDOWS Server Environment.
    You got to be Kidding!!!
    I have server/Gateways running LINUX on a 75Mhz Pentium for close to 500 days!!! What is that ....100%/Year??
    That is an easy $100.000 for any Company buying the Server from Stratus.

    Maybe the stipulation for a Stratus Server is:
    NOT Networked, NO User, Generator backed UPS!!
    Then it MIGHT get 5 9s

    I've got two Linux boxes in the wild running Lotus Domino server and they've been up for over 600 days straight. Never got that with any version of windows, and I've administered Windows NT 3.1 AS through Windows 2000. The people at Stratus really don'tAnonymous -- 26/02/03

    I've got two Linux boxes in the wild running Lotus Domino server and they've been up for over 600 days straight. Never got that with any version of windows, and I've administered Windows NT 3.1 AS through Windows 2000. The people at Stratus really don't have a clue about what they are talking about. With the number of service packs and hotfixes needed, I know that a server in the wild needs more than 5 minutes a year of downtime.

    It is NOT impossible that Stratus servers running Windows have 99.999 % availability: 1. The servers are behind a firewall running Linux and a fire-wall, guarded by heavily armed security guards and fierce bulldogs. Every connection request is mAnonymous -- 26/02/03

    It is NOT impossible that Stratus servers running Windows have 99.999 % availability:

    1. The servers are behind a firewall running Linux and a fire-wall, guarded by heavily armed security guards and fierce bulldogs. Every connection request is manually checked before sent to the server.

    2. They didn't run anything except Windows 2000 on the servers except screen savers.

    3. Nothing has ever gone into the harddisks after installing Windows. Not even patches from CD-ROMs.

    4. The server does not have any port open. It is then available for watching. (at least it is available)

    5. They are running a UPS powered by a generator (as in one of the comments previously posted) and the generator's supplied with biogas from Microsoft top executives' waste.

    6. ...

    Thus it is possible to have the servers have 99.999 % availability.

    What's the point of 99.9994% availability? Sure it would be nice to have it but in reality how many companies really need it? I am willing to bet every last dime I have that its less than 1% of all IT shops. 99.9% is more than enough. Anonymous -- 27/02/03

    What's the point of 99.9994% availability?

    Sure it would be nice to have it but in reality how many companies really need it? I am willing to bet every last dime I have that its less than 1% of all IT shops.

    99.9% is more than enough. After that the cost of high availability rises exponentially and the benefits do not.

    That probably explains why Stratus only sold 1200 boxes last year and I am sure most of those to the 911 systems which run on Stratus. Moral of the story - guys (and gals)...save your ink (keystrokes) and time! Cheers

    Where have you been Stephen Kiely the moon? I think everyone knows excluding you whether Linux or Windows will dominate the server market. Please wake up and stop being ignorant!Anonymous -- 27/02/03

    Where have you been Stephen Kiely the moon?
    I think everyone knows excluding you whether Linux or Windows will dominate the server market.
    Please wake up and stop being ignorant!

    I have been working with Windows since 1990 and Linux since 1994. I hold the MCSE +Internet certification, and I have been responsible for managing hundreds of Windows servers for several years. I have also managed several Linux servers and desktops runAnonymous -- 28/02/03

    I have been working with Windows since 1990 and Linux since 1994. I hold the MCSE +Internet certification, and I have been responsible for managing hundreds of Windows servers for several years. I have also managed several Linux servers and desktops running a wide variety of services for several years.

    Windows 2000 is indeed much better than Windows NT 4, but Linux is still more stable, reliable, securable, and highly available than Windows 2000. Windows 2000 systems crash at least ten times more frequently on me than Linux systems do. I should also note that a Linux "crash" is usually an X lockup that can usually be corrected without rebooting the system, and that is a desktop issue since my servers don't run X and don't crash.

    Of course, NT 4 crashed at least 100 times more frequently than Linux so Microsoft has improved. Unfortunately, Windows XP systems crash more frequently than Windows 2000 systems so Microsoft took another step backwards.

    Even if Windows was as technically capable as Linux, which it isn't, why would I want to pay more money for a comparable system?

    There are a number of good statistical databases, including the Netcraft uptime survey, which indicates that Linux and BSD are much more reliable than Windows, including Windows 2000. The factor here is how failures are measured. Microsoft toutRex Ballard -- 04/03/03

    There are a number of good statistical databases, including the Netcraft uptime survey, which indicates that Linux and BSD are much more reliable than Windows, including Windows 2000.

    The factor here is how failures are measured. Microsoft touts their "99.999% Uptime" based on a number of qualifiers, which includes excluding routine maintenance windows, mandatory frequent maintenance, clustered configuration, and immediate response to systems failures by qualified on-sight personnel.

    What this means is that while the average Linux system has an UPTIME (time between any reboot of any single server) of more than 6 months, and Windows 2000 has an average uptime of roughly 60 days (compared to 30 days for well-managed NT systems), Microsoft can tout 5 minutes/year downtime by keeping at least one server in the cluster operational until the routine scheduled maintenance period occurrs.

    The routine scheduled maintenance period can be up to an hour per week average, which means that while the SCHEDULED down-time could be 12, or even 50 hours per year, this down-time is not included in the downtime calculation.

    The more traditional downtime calculation, used by most UNIX vendors is (MTTR+MTBF)/MTTR which includes ALL down-time and maintenance.

    Ironically, for single-CPU environments, the big winner is still FreeBSD, not Linux OR Windows.

    Free BSD most stable? Dang, maybe Apple's Xserve is worth a look.Anonymous -- 10/03/03

    Free BSD most stable? Dang, maybe Apple's Xserve is worth a look.

    Shannon Roddy is Linux-whipped!!!Anonymous -- 14/12/04

    Shannon Roddy is Linux-whipped!!!

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