Who wrote Linux?



commentary Recent disputes over the authorship of Linux are missing an extremely obvious point. Has nobody noticed?

You sort of have to feel sorry for Richard Stallman. Poor old RMS, sitting in his dingy office in the comp sci building at MIT, issuing proclamations about the difference between free software and open source software, and insisting that everyone call Linux "GNU/Linux", worrying that the efforts of the GNU Project might be forgotten. But perhaps he has a point.
It took Tanenbaum three years to write Minix, and he had had access to the Unix source code while he was doing it, the report explains. Torvalds wrote Linux in only six months, without any access to the original Unix. What is he, supergeek?


You may have been following the story that broke in late May, about a report published by Ken Brown, president of the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, claiming Linus Torvalds didn't write Linux. Instead, it suggests he rewrote the code from Minix, a Unix clone designed by Andrew Tanenbaum at Vrije University in Amsterdam. It took Tanenbaum three years to write Minix, and he had had access to the Unix source code while he was doing it, the report explains. Torvalds wrote Linux in only six months, without any access to the original Unix. What is he, supergeek?

Why are companies licensing Unix source code "if it is as simple as writing it from scratch with little help or experience?" the report postulates. "Is it possible that building a Unix operating system really only takes a few months -- and, oh by the way, you don't even need the source code to do it?"

Naturally, the response from the Linux community was hostile, and not surprisingly it was suggested the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution is a Microsoft front. This is the classic Linuxhead reasoning that goes "this Institution said something bad about Linux, Microsoft doesn't like Linux, therefore Microsoft must have paid them under the table to say it". But subsequent statements from Tanenbaum and Torvalds, among others, reveal the report to be sensationalist fact-free nonsense aimed at either raising the profile of the Institution, damaging Linux, or both.

However, the report is 100 percent correct on one point: Linus Torvalds did not write Linux. This is where Richard Stallman comes into the picture. For years Stallman has been campaigning for people to say "Linux" when referring to the kernel that was originally written by Torvalds, and to say "GNU/Linux" when referring to Linux the operating system. Unfortunately for Stallman, we suspect the horse has already bolted on this one; most people use "Linux" to refer to the entire operating system, no matter how historically inaccurate it is.

When you install Linux on your PC, you're not only installing the kernel -- the bit that tells the software how to talk to the processor, memory, and hardware -- you're also installing compilers, editors, Web servers, e-mail programs, and a lengthy list of other applications. Torvalds hardly wrote any of them. When Torvalds started distributing Linux in 1991, a large proportion of the software he bundled along with it was written by the GNU Project.

GNU was started by Stallman in 1984 with the vision "to develop a complete UNIX style operating system which is free software". Between 1984 and 1991, Stallman and his colleagues had developed a fairly complete library of Unix-style software. What it lacked was a workable kernel, and this is what Torvalds took six months to write in 1991.

So when the study suggests it was impossible for Torvalds to have written Linux in the time he did, it completely ignores that Torvalds didn't write Linux. Or at least he didn't write GNU/Linux. The GNU Project had seven years of work on its Unix style OS by 1991, which would seem to indicate a few more person-hours were involved in GNU/Linux than Tanenbaum's three-year effort on Minix.

It astounds me that in all the punditry following this report, no one has thought to point out this obvious mistake. But then, considering the number of Linux enthusiasts who weren't even born in 1984, it's no wonder this all seems like ancient history.

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Talkback 51 comments

  1. > However, the report is 100 percent correct on one point: Linus Torvalds did not write Linux. This is where Richard Stallman comes into the picture. Of course he didn't. Thousands of other people did (today's version, that is). RMS does not Anonymous -- 07/07/04

    > However, the report is 100 percent correct on one point: Linus Torvalds did not write Linux. This is where Richard Stallman comes into the picture.

    Of course he didn't. Thousands of other people did (today's version, that is). RMS does not come into Linux (the kernel) picture at all, you are just trying to confuse people that don't know any better. The fact that people refer to the whole OS as "Linux" means absolutely nothing.

    > Torvalds wrote Linux in only six months, without any access to the original Unix. What is he, supergeek?

    I'm just not sure why are you warming up this vomit from Ken Brown, when every single person he interviewed told him that what Linus did himself was entirely possible. Remember, the Linux kernel of today is an entirely different beast that the kernel Linus originally wrote. But you didn't actually check to see how many lines of code that was, did you? Just FUD-ing, are we?

    > Naturally, the response from the Linux community was hostile, and not surprisingly it was suggested the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution is a Microsoft front.

    Let's say I call you a liar and a cheat - would you become hostile? What Ken Brown is suggesting here is that Linux developers (including Linus) pinched someone's code, all while he's go zero proof to back that up. Just like the sad company by the name of SCO, that produced exactly zero lines of System V code during the discovery in the IBM case.

    Please, lay off it already.

  2. Well there is not much chance I will ever be subscribing to the "Technology & Business Magazine" if this is an example of the quality of your reporting and opinions. Anonymous -- 07/07/04

    Well there is not much chance I will ever be subscribing to the "Technology & Business Magazine" if this is an example of the quality of your reporting and opinions.

  3. Wow, there is no much to pick apart, I hardly know where to begin... Let's start with the basics. Linus wrote the the initial portion of the Kernel (which roughly had enough functionality to mount a floppy drive) in 6 months. What's so hard to belive Anonymous -- 07/07/04

    Wow, there is no much to pick apart, I hardly know where to begin...
    Let's start with the basics. Linus wrote the the initial portion of the Kernel (which roughly had enough functionality to mount a floppy drive) in 6 months. What's so hard to belive about that? Then he released the code to programmers and suggested they use the gcc compiler. If you want to call that packadging with tons of GNU tools, well ok. Linux has become the capable OS it is today not because of any "Magnificient Code", but from the way it was released. The free trade of ideas has allowed thousands of briliant minds to come together, not just one man. The real problem with the Ken Brown report is that THIS is the part he ignores. We are the authors and Linus started us.
    Linux should *NOW* be called GNU\Linux because it is *NOW* packadged with GNU tools. Linux people believe in freedom, GNU believes in freedom, it is a perfect fit.
    Next, the reason the FOSS community thinks Microsoft "may" be behind the report is because of the fact that Microsoft is a major contributor to the organization that released the paper. The facts on this can be found at www.groklaw.net.

    Finally, to insult Linux users as "fanatics" and insinuate that we all are younger than 20 is a low brow tactic that only further proves how little you know and how base your reporting capabilities truely are. Many of us have been around since the inception on Linux and worked as Unix admins before it's release. I and several of my friends are more than likely older than you. It is not ignorance that keeps us from giving him the credit for "creating" Linux, rather it is the exact opposite. We know where Linux came from. From our community and from Linus. We have not forgotten Mr. Stallman's contributions to our community, his ideas and his tools are forever a part of Linux and we are greatfull. But to try to make him the author of Linux is insulting to everyone, including Mr. Stallman.
    I assume you did as much research as Ken Brown did, and by that I mean none.

  4. Now let me see.... Several of my Professional IT friends and I are Linux enthusiasts... And I, like my friends were in our 30's in 1984. And according to Mr. Mehlman: "considering the number of Linux enthusiasts who weren't even born in 19 Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Now let me see.... Several of my Professional IT friends and I are Linux enthusiasts... And I, like my friends were in our 30's in 1984.

    And according to Mr. Mehlman: "considering the number of Linux enthusiasts who weren't even born in 1984" ....

    Oh, I get it. It would take a very mature and experienced mind to realize that Linux is NOT an obvious choice. Windows is the choice of mature and experienced professionals.

    I know it's a stretch, But I still feel like I've been insulted.

  5. People who don't know history from rumor make up their own twisted history: For the record; what Linus Torvalds released on the Internet as the "Linux Kernel" was hardly a workable kernel -certanily not Minix! Minix was leaps ahead Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    People who don't know history from rumor make up their own twisted history:

    For the record; what Linus Torvalds released on the Internet as the "Linux Kernel" was hardly a workable kernel -certanily not Minix! Minix was leaps ahead of Linus' sickly imitation. One would think if he copied Minix code that it would have worked at least (or almost) as well.

    As touching the "super-geek" comment, YES - Some People are smarter than others - much to the chagrin of small insecure egos.

  6. Dear Mr. Mehlman, As I can see, you do not have the slightest idea of what Linus Torvalds wrote in tnat little period, from 1991-1992. You do not have any idea of how many people contributed to the original little piece of kernel code. In resume Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Dear Mr. Mehlman,

    As I can see, you do not have the slightest idea of what Linus Torvalds wrote in tnat little period, from 1991-1992. You do not have any idea of how many people contributed to the original little piece of kernel code. In resume: You do not have idea of what are you writing about.

    I born far before 1984, you seem to be born 5 or 6 years ago.

    Read, read! Suggestions? Just 2 to begin:

    "The Cathedral and The Bazzar" by Eric S. Raymnond

    "The Revel Code" by Glyn Moody

    By the way, I recibed an email by Richard M. Stallman. In it, he comments that it is easier to theach something to Bush than to the Alexis de Toqueville Institution. He also say, among other things, that The adti has tergiversed his words and writings.

    He will make public the letter very soon.

    And, as I said you before, Mr.... whoever, Read, read, read before write.

    Andrés González Cantú

  7. I especially love the unqualified comment on the number of GNU/Linux afficionados who 'hadn't even been born in 1984'. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I walk around and talk to people who'd been born in 1980 and later, I really don't see man Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    I especially love the unqualified comment on the number of GNU/Linux afficionados who 'hadn't even been born in 1984'. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I walk around and talk to people who'd been born in 1980 and later, I really don't see many Linux users -- what I see are click-monkeys who only know "Windows/Word/Excel/Powerpoint" because that's what they toyed with at school. Some exceptional people may produce mature enough code by the age of 20 that they can contribute to the kernel (after all I was an assembler programmer by 13) but the 20-and younger generation are probably not the largest group within the Linux community. I'd say they're the age group who quite happily pirate Microsoft software (and I believe it's in the interest of Free Software to combat piracy).

  8. I'll admit to phrasing the following sentence poorly: "When Torvalds started distributing Linux in 1991, a large proportion of the software he bundled along with it was written by the GNU Project." The timing is not correct. By the time Linux be Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    I'll admit to phrasing the following sentence poorly: "When Torvalds started distributing Linux in 1991, a large proportion of the software he bundled along with it was written by the GNU Project." The timing is not correct. By the time Linux became a full operating system, not just a kernel, a lot of the tools bundled with it were GNU tools. I'm not entirely confident to put a date on that, but I'm sure one of the readers can fill us in. Certainly by the time I came across Linux, around 1993-4, a lot of people had worked on the kernel and the rest of the operating system.
    This is not the point.
    The ADTI argues that Linus couldn't possibly have written a whole operating system in the time that he did. All I'm saying is he didn't write a whole operating system, and it's entirely possible for him to have written the basic kernel in the time he did.
    And all those people who accuse me of promoting or apologising for the ADTI report, I thought calling it "sensationalist fact-free nonsense" was pretty unequivocal. But then fanatics see what they want to see and ignore anything that contradicts . . .
    And gee, I'm astounded to hear there are Linux users who are over 20 - NOT! You have to admit Linux attracts the young and hotheaded. And, it appears, the old and hotheaded as well.
    Either way, a sense of perspective is helpful -- and that doesn't mean admitting "Windows is the choice of mature and experienced professionals", it means using the right tool for the job and realising Linux is just a bit of software that runs your computer, not a religion.

  9. "So when the study suggests it was impossible for Torvalds to have written Linux in the time he did, it completely ignores that Torvalds didn't write Linux. Or at least he didn't write GNU/Linux." I think Mr Mehlman is not being unfair Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    "So when the study suggests it was impossible for Torvalds to have written Linux in the time he did, it completely ignores that Torvalds didn't write Linux. Or at least he didn't write GNU/Linux."

    I think Mr Mehlman is not being unfair here. His article appears to me to be critical of the Brown report.
    However to suggest that Linux enthusiasts are not aware of history is a bit shallow. I think most of them are aware of the difference between the kernel and GNU/Linux. By the way, I was writing assembler code in the 1980's and studying Unix. I'm sure there are thousands of old goats like me still around who appreciate the work of Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman.

  10. I'd just like to say I feel insulted that people tend to think that unless you grew up in the '70s that all you can do is run Microsoft Windows. I was born in 1982 and have used more operating systems and programs than most computer teachers know ex Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    I'd just like to say I feel insulted that people tend to think that unless you grew up in the
    '70s that all you can do is run Microsoft Windows. I was born in 1982 and have used more operating systems and programs than most computer teachers know exists.
    Stallman didn't write Linux, his contribution to the world has been GNU. Just because most Linux distributors ship them with their package doesn't mean they have to call it GNU/Linux. They don't even have to call it Linux. If I wanted I could take a copy of Mandrake, repackage it and call it Bill. I have the right under the GPL to do that, as long as I satisfied the license terms. The whole flamewar over what it should be called should have died along time ago. Stop trying to bring it back. Torvalds wrote the original Linux kernel that wasn't even up to Minix callibur. It took many people, all around the world, to create the Linux kernel of today. The world "owns" Linux, Torvalds just owns the name. He is still running the show because people want him to, because he is respected and known to do a good job. If he wasn't the community would replace him. What's the point of trying to confuse people with stories of who owns what and who wrote what?

    I apologise if I warmed anyone's pants too much there.

  11. And Bill Gates didn't actually write DOS. He bought the basic software from a computer company in Seattle!!! Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    And Bill Gates didn't actually write DOS. He bought the basic software from a computer company in Seattle!!!

  12. This article contain quite a few factorial errors, which Mr. Mehlman appears to have overseen. Instead of going into a long answer, I would like to ask Mr. Mehlman to read Andrew Tannenbaums answers to Mr. Brown of AdTI. To quote from his homepage (http:/ Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    This article contain quite a few factorial errors, which Mr. Mehlman appears to have overseen. Instead of going into a long answer, I would like to ask Mr. Mehlman to read Andrew Tannenbaums answers to Mr. Brown of AdTI. To quote from his homepage (http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/rebuttal/):

    "All in all, Brown's only argument is that he, personally, doesn't believe a 21-year-old kid could have written an operating system kernel in a year, despite the fact that half a dozen other people had done the same thing earlier and the code Linus wrote wasn't all that great initially. And faced with a whole bunch of people telling him otherwise and the consultant he hired to examine the code saying the code is completely different from MINIX, Brown just ignores all the facts and persists in his belief."

  13. I am 66 years old. I bought my first personal computer in 1985. It was not a PC running Microsoft. I have been using Linux since 1966. I abandoned Microsoft in 1992, because Bill Gates is an a**hole. I have friends near my age who Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    I am 66 years old.
    I bought my first personal computer in 1985.
    It was not a PC running Microsoft.
    I have been using Linux since 1966.
    I abandoned Microsoft in 1992, because Bill Gates is an a**hole.
    I have friends near my age who use Linux.
    You don't have any knowledge of what you talk about, so why do you write at all?
    You are typical of Ziff Davis writers: ignorant or disingenuous.

  14. That is about as accurate as saying Bill Gates wrote Windows and all of the other software that comes with it. Of course Linus didn't write all of Linux, and to claim he did would just be stupid. Is Josh suggesting that he stole the code from Minux? We al Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    That is about as accurate as saying Bill Gates wrote Windows and all of the other software that comes with it. Of course Linus didn't write all of Linux, and to claim he did would just be stupid. Is Josh suggesting that he stole the code from Minux? We all know Bill never stole code from anyone :)

  15. > The ADTI argues that Linus couldn't possibly have written a whole operating system in the time that he did. All I'm saying is he didn't write a whole operating system, and it's entirely possible for him to have written the basic kernel in the time he Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    > The ADTI argues that Linus couldn't possibly have written a whole operating system in the time that he did. All I'm saying is he didn't write a whole operating system, and it's entirely possible for him to have written the basic kernel in the time he did.

    The ADTI argues that Linus must have stolen the code from Minix (although they were explicitly told he didn't by the person that ran the comparison), because there would be no other way for him to write Linux (which is the already made opinion they were hired to "prove"). By bringing in the confusion over the name of the whole OS, you aren't actually anwsering the question from your text's title: "Who wrote Linux?" You are just introducing more confusion for people that don't understand the difference anyhow.

    > Either way, a sense of perspective is helpful -- and that doesn't mean admitting "Windows is the choice of mature and experienced professionals", it means using the right tool for the job and realising Linux is just a bit of software that runs your computer, not a religion.

    See? That's exactly what gets you the hostile comments like mine. You just write things without thinking. If you really wanted to answer the question "Who wrote Linux?", why didn't you actually do a bit of research and told us what happened, how the comparisons with other code bases turned out, how big/complicated the original kernel was etc., rather than try to confuse things with introduction of RMS, FSF and GNU, which have very little to do with the issue at hand.

    Let me put things in perspective for you. Here is a sentence from ADTI web site that tells us what Linux is:

    "Linux is a leprosy; and is having a deleterious effect on the U.S. IT industry because it is steadily depreciating the value of the software industry sector."

    Or this statement from Ken Brown:

    "It's clear to me, at least from quotes from Tanenbaum, that Linus started from Minix...He just sat down with Minix and wrote this product. By definition, that is not an invention," Brown said. "If you sit down with the Ford blueprints and build a Chrysler and don't give Ford any credit, that's not invention."

    Now, with these quotes in mind, don't you think that you should have approached the whole issue differently? Something along the lines of "ADTI has an agenda...". IMHO, you're putting way too much weight on what ADTI concluded about the whole thing - they did so because they had to do it based on their already made opinions, not research. So, you could have mentioned them in 1 sentence (maybe), not go on and on with confusion (not to mention the sidebar with "It took Tanenbaum three years to write Minix...", which puts emphasis on controversy). Why does it have to be a controversy when everyone that checked just a few simple facts knows that there isn't one? Why intruduce another set of variables (RMS/GNU/FSF), when they have very little to do with the actual question?

    I think you got back what you deserved. People don't want to read rubbish with no substance. If you really want to answer "Who wrote Linux?", then please do so. Provide facts and then state your opinion.

  16. "it means using the right tool for the job and realising Linux is just a bit of software that runs your computer" You're quite wrong on that point. Linux is much more than "just a bit of software". Linux has become the spearh Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    "it means using the right tool for the job and realising Linux is just a bit of software that runs your computer"

    You're quite wrong on that point. Linux is much more than "just a bit of software". Linux has become the spearhead of an industrial, economical and perhaps even political revolution that's certain to sweep the world, as it is doing even now. The genie is well out of the bottle. Linux may not be a religion, but it has become at least in part the product of philosophy.

    Linux is also a very nice bit of software. I have yet to encounter a job for which it has not been a most suitable tool.

  17. Fools rushes in where angels fear to tread. Well 'fools' like Mehlman, Ken Brown et al seem to be in a detective role of finding out who wrote linux. These 'ignorants' should better find out 'who wrote windoze' the most horrible piece of crap that took aw Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Fools rushes in where angels fear to tread. Well 'fools' like Mehlman, Ken Brown et al seem to be in a detective role of finding out who wrote linux. These 'ignorants' should better find out 'who wrote windoze' the most horrible piece of crap that took away millions from the mass.
    Well. Here we go. Another bullshit story from zdnet the M$ 'bootlickers'.

  18. Seems that Mr Mehlman needs to do some research 'again'. This isn't the first time Josh. It doesn't take much time to do, and all the points covered by the other feedback authors were easily found and verified in a short time. Like mos Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Seems that Mr Mehlman needs to do some research 'again'.
    This isn't the first time Josh.
    It doesn't take much time to do, and all the points covered by the other feedback authors were easily found and verified in a short time.

    Like most journalists today, Josh just takes the easy way out, copies work from other sources without any verification, and sticks his name at the bottom.

    We used to get marks taken off for this sort of thing when I was at school...

  19. Some of the comments by the Editor and writer of this article are offensive and insulting to the knowledge ofo those who actually work in the industry as I do. I would suggest that one do more research before placing an article up for public vie Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Some of the comments by the Editor and writer of this article are offensive and insulting to the knowledge ofo those who actually work in the industry as I do.

    I would suggest that one do more research before placing an article up for public view. At best it degrades you image if you do not.

    You might want to start at:

    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040610033013625&query=adti
    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040527170120747&query=adti
    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040611141310910&query=adti
    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040601212559558&query=adti
    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040614232501302&query=adti

  20. Josh, don't take comments people put in here too seriously. I read some of the comments and it is clear they didn't read to the end of the article and got defensive and wrote a repy straight away.. It's funny (I think) that people are very quick to poin Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Josh, don't take comments people put in here too seriously. I read some of the comments and it is clear they didn't read to the end of the article and got defensive and wrote a repy straight away.. It's funny (I think) that people are very quick to point out their point of view and their achivements (like our 13yr old programmer friend) and forget that this article isn't a putdown of any operating systems or people's achievements. There is no point arguing which is better or worse, or what I have achieved, etc.. This article from what I can tell merely points out that people see one line out of context and jump to conclusions about what they thought the person was trying to argue, rather than what they were actually saying..

    Just remember, people individually can be smart, but people in groups usually have one leader and so therefore logically most people are just sheep following the whims of an individual. Moral: Use your brain and think about things, rather than just rant. hmmm... I better stop before I start ranting... grins...

  21. Josh, don't take comments people put in here too seriously. I read some of the comments and it is clear they didn't read to the end of the article and got defensive and wrote a repy straight away.. It's funny (I think) that people are very quick to poin Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Josh, don't take comments people put in here too seriously. I read some of the comments and it is clear they didn't read to the end of the article and got defensive and wrote a repy straight away.. It's funny (I think) that people are very quick to point out their point of view and their achivements (like our 13yr old programmer friend) and forget that this article isn't a putdown of any operating systems or people's achievements. There is no point arguing which is better or worse, or what I have achieved, etc.. This article from what I can tell merely points out that people see one line out of context and jump to conclusions about what they thought the person was trying to argue, rather than what they were actually saying..

    Just remember, people individually can be smart, but people in groups usually have one leader and so therefore logically most people are just sheep following the whims of an individual. Moral: Use your brain and think about things, rather than just rant. hmmm... I better stop before I start ranting... grins...

  22. Dear Dweebs, Linux IS the kernel. The GNU contributions are vital utilities which work WITH the kernel. They are NOT the kernel. The kernel is the heart, mind and soul of an OS. The GNU utilities include the compiler which is used to c Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Dear Dweebs,

    Linux IS the kernel. The GNU contributions are vital utilities which work WITH the kernel. They are NOT the kernel. The kernel is the heart, mind and soul of an OS.

    The GNU utilities include the compiler which is used to compile most programs (including the kernel itself) for MANT versions of POSIX compliant UNIX, so it is the cornerstone that many programs are rendered into machine comprehensible languge with, but it is NOT, repeat NOT Linux.

    The GNU utilities will work, or can be made to work with ANY POSIX compliant Kernel.

    Only MS tries to mingle and tie together such utilities as the browser and the mail client together into one commingled whole. That has the inevitable result that their security sucks and their reliability is atrocious compared to any rationally designed OS.

    Kindly educate your writers on the difference between the kernel and the utilities distributed with it to avoid future idiocies on your part.

    Just remember: Linus wrote the original kernel. NOT the utilites and other user programs, otherwise known as apps, or applications. MANY other people have done those and have added to and help maintain the kernel to this day. Linus himself is the ORGANISER of all these efforts.

    So to ask who wrote Linux is completely inane. Linus STARTED it and had something that would work after a fashion, but that initial kernel was a far cry from today's kernel. That's why he put it on the internet and asked for contributions for heaven's sake!

    The rest is history.

    Try reading it, you might like it.

    Cheers,

    Frank

  23. It has been conclusively established that Shakespere's plays were not actually written by Shakespeare, but by another man of the same name. It is probably a good thing that Josh Mehlman doesn't even understand how wrong his writing is. Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    It has been conclusively established that
    Shakespere's plays were not actually written by Shakespeare, but by another man of the same name.

    It is probably a good thing that Josh Mehlman doesn't even understand how wrong his writing is.

    Then again - maybe he does.

    Regards,

    Epaminondas

  24. Anonymous Engineer from Sydney writes: "This article from what I can tell merely points out that people see one line out of context and jump to conclusions about what they thought the person was trying to argue, rather than what they were a Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Anonymous Engineer from Sydney writes:

    "This article from what I can tell merely points out that people see one line out of context and jump to conclusions about what they thought the person was trying to argue, rather than what they were actually saying.."

    The real problem with this article is that it asks a question "Who wrote Linux?", then has a whole heap of nonsense in the middle related to "paid for" opinions of ADTI (which are completely irrelevant, based on thin air, offensive lies, FUD etc.), it throws in RMS and GNU/FSF for nobody-knows-why reason (it might have thrown in the Apache Foundation by the same token) and finally does not answer the question it asked "Who wrote Linux?" in a factual and researched fashion.

    The author thinks that nobody noticed that kernel isn't the OS and thinks that ADTI conclusions are based on that (i.e. that they are some kind of oversight), which is quite clearly wrong. ADTI's conclusions are based on pre-made opinions they have about Linux. A brief read of their web site shows that.

    In summary, the article does nothing to prove or disprove who actually did it and why ADTI's conclusions are wrong. Review this statement:

    "So when the study suggests it was impossible for Torvalds to have written Linux in the time he did, it completely ignores that Torvalds didn't write Linux. Or at least he didn't write GNU/Linux."

    The "study" actually suggests that Linus must have pinched the code from Minix, after Ken Brown has been repeatedly told by many that this isn't the case at all. What does GNU have to do with that?

    And then the "big discovery":

    "It astounds me that in all the punditry following this report, no one has thought to point out this obvious mistake."

    If the author bothered to read what people wrote on the topic before him, he would know that the above isn't the case at all. Well informed people know and understand the difference very clearly. The whole "controversy" of the report is based on a completely different premise - that the code from Minix was taken and put into Linux. Remeber the ADTI press release title:

    "Torvalds claim to "invent" Linux® probably false, says new study"

    So, Ken Brown is basically calling Linus a liar and a thief. What on earth does RMS and GNU have to do with that? And how exactly does this article help in discovering the truth (i.e. is Linus a liar and a thief or not).

  25. Enough already! Thanks to everyone for pointing it out, but I was aware when I wrote the article that the ADTI report had been thoroughly rebutted by a large number of people. I said so in the article. If you don't bother reading the whole article before Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Enough already! Thanks to everyone for pointing it out, but I was aware when I wrote the article that the ADTI report had been thoroughly rebutted by a large number of people. I said so in the article. If you don't bother reading the whole article before spewing vitriol, your comments are meaningless.
    This isn't the worst of it, though. Am I to understand that since the report's arguments have been refuted, it's my journalistic duty to pretend it never existed? Or that even though I said the report was crap, the fact that I gave it airtime means I tacitly support its arguments? Oh, of course, Bill Gates personally PAID me to rehash the report even after it had been discredited, right?
    Is this better?
    "The M$-funded ADTI published a FUD propaganda report making the outrageous and totally untrue claim (because cool people like Linus Torvalds said so) that Linus isn't a total super mega genius who wrote Linux in his spare time thus starting the Open Source revolution which will change the world and destroy the evil proprietary software empire."
    Now that's journalism!

  26. Bojan, to address your comments specifically . . . You believe the ADTI started with an inherent anti-Linux bias and that's why the report reached the conclusions it did. I'm not saying I disagree with you. However, the report clearly DOES NOT distin Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Bojan, to address your comments specifically . . .
    You believe the ADTI started with an inherent anti-Linux bias and that's why the report reached the conclusions it did. I'm not saying I disagree with you. However, the report clearly DOES NOT distinguish between the kernel and the whole OS, and there's a vital difference. It is eminently possible for Linus to have written a kernel in the time he did, but impossible for him to have written a whole OS.
    Clever people like you know the difference and the historical context. Even some dumb, lazy, M$-shill "journalists" like me do. But plenty of discussion and lots of media reporting on the topic has completely failed to understand this distinction.
    Perhaps you think I was overly charitable to the ADTI in suggesting they may merely have been woefully misinformed instead of maliciously disingenuous. But that's really a difference of opinion, isn't it?

  27. > Perhaps you think I was overly charitable to the ADTI in suggesting they may merely have been woefully misinformed instead of maliciously disingenuous. But that's really a difference of opinion, isn't it? They did not make some kind of hone Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    > Perhaps you think I was overly charitable to the ADTI in suggesting they may merely have been woefully misinformed instead of maliciously disingenuous. But that's really a difference of opinion, isn't it?

    They did not make some kind of honest mistake. They have interviewed a number of people, ran code comparisons and what not. They absolutely _knew_ the difference between an OS and a kernel (honestly, is it possible to write a report on a Unix variant of any value and not know that?).

    After all that, they have _chosen_ to ignore the results of their research and simply published what they were hired to publish. Difference of opinion? You can call it what you like, but when I see stuff like "Linux is a leprosy" on their site, I'm pretty sure they are in it for something.

    On the malice issue... Just imagine yourself being in Linus' shoes. One day you open up your browser and some schmuck that hasn't written a single line of code in his life is calling you a liar and a thief. Not pleasant. I know Linus has got a thick skin and all, but common decency would suggest that serious accusations like this should be verified before they are published. At least IMHO.

    "Even some dumb, lazy, M$-shill "journalists" like me do."

    Why do you have to write insults like this?

    All I'm saying is that the GNU connection that you're trying to point out isn't very strong. People that knew about it learned nothing new from you text. People that didn't know are now ever more confused, because they think that ADTI did't get the difference, so they made a mistake. That just isn't the case at all.

    After all, ADTI had a chance to publish retractions and corrections. They never did. According to them, Linus took Minix code and put it into Linux. I think your article should have focused on that, because that would really answer the question "Who wrote Linux?"

  28. Horse Pucky! The widely used IBM MVS operating system has a component DFP (Data Facility Product) under the covers which can be compared to the GNU utilities under Linux. No one would ever think of calling MVS DFP/MVS. You call the product by it Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Horse Pucky!

    The widely used IBM MVS operating system has a component DFP (Data Facility Product) under the covers which can be compared to the GNU utilities under Linux. No one would ever think of calling MVS DFP/MVS. You call the product by its operating system or kernel name, and this one is simply Linux. The GNU utilities are used on other operating systems as well, but who ever heard of GNU/Solaris or GNU/FreeBSD? RMS did good work, but GNU would be just a footnote without Linux.

  29. Horse Pucky! The widely used IBM MVS operating system has a component DFP (Data Facility Product) under the covers which can be compared to the GNU utilities under Linux. No one would ever think of calling MVS DFP/MVS. You call the product by it Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Horse Pucky!

    The widely used IBM MVS operating system has a component DFP (Data Facility Product) under the covers which can be compared to the GNU utilities under Linux. No one would ever think of calling MVS DFP/MVS. You call the product by its operating system or kernel name, and this one is simply Linux. The GNU utilities are used on other operating systems as well, but who ever heard of GNU/Solaris or GNU/FreeBSD? RMS did good work, but GNU would be just a footnote without Linux.

  30. Pretty stupid article. Linus did write Linux (the kernel) and this is what Ken Brown is contesting. GNU/Linux does not enter the picture at all. If he had said "Linus did not write GNU/Linux", of course, like you say, he'd have been right. But Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Pretty stupid article. Linus did write Linux (the kernel) and this is what Ken Brown is contesting. GNU/Linux does not enter the picture at all. If he had said "Linus did not write GNU/Linux", of course, like you say, he'd have been right. But as you mention elsewhere in the article, he did say that Linus could not have written Linux by himself, and there he is talking about the kernel.

  31. "If you don't bother reading the whole article before spewing vitriol, your comments are meaningless." Welcome to Linux advocacy hell. Have a look at comp.os.linux.advocacy for a more representitive example of the lunatic fringe that a Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    "If you don't bother reading the whole article before spewing vitriol, your comments are meaningless."

    Welcome to Linux advocacy hell. Have a look at comp.os.linux.advocacy for a more representitive example of the lunatic fringe that accompanies all things Linux.

  32. The point was made quite quickly on Groklaw, and I reiterate it here, because it must be made clear. The thing Linus wrote in 6 months was a basic kernel. It has taken some years for that kernel to mature as far as it has. Mr Brown say Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    The point was made quite quickly on Groklaw, and I reiterate it here, because it must be made clear.

    The thing Linus wrote in 6 months was a basic kernel. It has taken some years for that kernel to mature as far as it has.

    Mr Brown says "Look at this whole system, with its desktops, web servers, and 13 years of work since 1991, never mind the work put into GNU before it - How could someone have written that in 6 months?". He implies that anyone is claiming that Linus wrote everything we have here in 6 months, but noone has ever claimed that.

    So does this give us a chance to sue? No more than Microsoft can sue Oracle for writing a database that runs on top of Windows! GNU, KDE, Apache, Exim and all those tools run on top of Linux as applications. Before they start running, Linux (the kernel) has no knowledge of them, and can't be accused of having stolen from them. Its all a bit silly really.

    I'm afraid the Brown report's reasoning is just as sensible as "Just look at those big fighter jet planes with their computer control systems. Orville Wright, when he made his plane back in 1903, couldn't have done it without stealing from this future technology. Just look at these jet planes - you expect me to believe that some pioneer - back in 1903 - can just invent a plane!"

  33. Inferiority complex. Nothing more. The author is not a real programmer but sounds more like an authority in Computer Science for Dummies treatises! It's pretty natural that he'll feel small while looking up at people with more IQ. Rather than be a program Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Inferiority complex. Nothing more. The author is not a real programmer but sounds more like an authority in Computer Science for Dummies treatises! It's pretty natural that he'll feel small while looking up at people with more IQ. Rather than be a programmer nature has conspired against him and he's to be contented with reporting about the accomplishments of more
    talented people (whom he probable resents.)

    Just my thoughts!

  34. RE: And Bill Gates didn't actually write DOS. DOS, was, as mentioned previously, written by some backyard operation in seattle - however the previous poster forgot to mention that it was referred to by its author, prior to selling it, as QDOS - which stoo Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    RE: And Bill Gates didn't actually write DOS. DOS, was, as mentioned previously, written by some backyard operation in seattle - however the previous poster forgot to mention that it was referred to by its author, prior to selling it, as QDOS - which stood for "Quick and Dirty Operating System" - rather than DOS - or "Disk Operating System" - that Gates preferred to name it.

  35. Torvalds will tell anyone who wishes to listen that he wrote only the kernel and relied on the GNU utilities. His goal was to provide what GNU was unable to provide...a kernel...so that there would be an open, free version of Unix that could be run on a Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Torvalds will tell anyone who wishes to listen that he wrote only the kernel and relied on the GNU utilities. His goal was to provide what GNU was unable to provide...a kernel...so that there would be an open, free version of Unix that could be run on a 386. If you're curious as to how it all started, I recommend reading Linus's version at:
    http://www.li.org/linuxhistory.php

  36. Josh, RE: your last comment - I would like to believe that Ken Brown was merely being shortsighted, and stupid rather than outright evil when writing this work - however Andrew Tanenbaum's statements sort of suggest otherwise. According to Tanenbaum, Brow Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    Josh, RE: your last comment - I would like to believe that Ken Brown was merely being shortsighted, and stupid rather than outright evil when writing this work - however Andrew Tanenbaum's statements sort of suggest otherwise. According to Tanenbaum, Brown was obviously seeking controversy, and when Tanenbaum attempted to correct Brown's 'innocent misinterpretations', Brown lost interest and went looking for quotes from random students at Tanenbaum's university - hell, I spose if you've crossed the atlantic to interview a juicy source who turns out to be not what you'd expected, then quotes from random sources are better than none at all :). In any case, the URL you need is here "http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/brown/" - an page on Tanenbaum's website describing the incident (was doing the rounds on slashdot a few weeks back, suprised you missed it).

    Anyways, as always, HTH

    -d

  37. As I see it, the main point of Mr. Mehlman's article is to tear down Ken Brown's main point, that Linus could not have written an entire operating system in 6 months. I think maybe Mehlman is suggesting that Brown doesn't know the difference between the Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    As I see it, the main point of Mr. Mehlman's article is to tear down Ken Brown's main point, that Linus could not have written an entire operating system in 6 months. I think maybe Mehlman is suggesting that Brown doesn't know the difference between the kernel and the rest of GNU/linux. I am a little more cynical myself.
    As an aside, Ben Walsh's comment mentions that he was born in 1982 and has used more operating systems and programs than most computer teachers know exist. I don't doubt him a bit. From my own observations, there is something drastically wrong with the way computer teachers are being trained.

  38. > I think maybe Mehlman is suggesting that Brown doesn't know the difference between the kernel and the rest of GNU/linux. I am a little more cynical myself. I think you are quite correct there. And I have to admit I'm a _lot_ more cynical ab Anonymous -- 08/07/04

    > I think maybe Mehlman is suggesting that Brown doesn't know the difference between the kernel and the rest of GNU/linux. I am a little more cynical myself.

    I think you are quite correct there. And I have to admit I'm a _lot_ more cynical about Brown and his employers, ADTI.

    Let's say a person that has never seen a car got sent to do a report on one. Would it be possible for that person to not understand the difference between the engine and the whole car after interviewing engineers that worked on the design of the car? Of course it wouldn't. The report would surely indicate that an engine is a part of the whole car. I do not buy for one second the possiblity that Brown didn't know that kernel was just one part of the OS (unless his IQ is way below 100 or something).

    All of the evidence suggests that Brown never bothered to listen to what people were trying to tell him about writing kernels. He even ignored the code comparison between Linux and Minix source code. Brown was simply a man on a mission. His mind was already made up.

  39. Are all u Linux geeks brainless??? I really wonder sometimes. Isn't it obvious that Josh Mehlman is disagreeing with the Ken Brown report?? Half of you geeks don't even realise that, instead you start making stupid, unintelligent attacks on the Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    Are all u Linux geeks brainless??? I really wonder sometimes.

    Isn't it obvious that Josh Mehlman is disagreeing with the Ken Brown report?? Half of you geeks don't even realise that, instead you start making stupid, unintelligent attacks on the journalist.

    Why don't you take your own advice and read the article first, then realise, sure there may be some technical mistakes, let me offer some corrections in a polite way instead of posting abusive comments.

    Its people like you that really makes the Linux community look bad...

  40. I'm loosing interest in this site now................ if we have this lower level of 'attention desperate' cheap gutter, inaccurate & ignorant type of reporting here, I'm begining to think ZDnet is not worth reading anymore. I think I'll jus Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    I'm loosing interest in this site now................ if we have this lower level of 'attention desperate' cheap gutter, inaccurate & ignorant type of reporting here, I'm begining to think ZDnet is not worth reading anymore.

    I think I'll just keep reading Groklaw.
    This is emabarrasing.

    Sorry people around the world, this fool Josh Mehlman, doesn't represent many of australian tech reporters. Sorry, I'm embarased that we have people from other parts of the planet reading this trash.

    Josh Mehlman shows his true colors, he's afraid of technology & is desperate for attention, just another writer trying to get noticed.

  41. The article seems to have been written with a touch of the sensational, but otherwise I only have one issue. The issue, in fact, is not with the author as much as the whole Linux vs. GNU/Linux debate. My take on it is "Why is this even an Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    The article seems to have been written with a touch of the sensational, but otherwise I only have one issue. The issue, in fact, is not with the author as much as the whole Linux vs. GNU/Linux debate.

    My take on it is "Why is this even an issue?" My car has Firestone tires, yet I don't drive a Firestone/Chevy. An Alumnacraft boat with a Mercury engine is not called a Mercury/Alumnacraft. And when is the last time you saw a website that required "MOSAIC/Internet Explorer"? If a PC manufacturer ships Windows XP with Netscape also installed, should the box say "Windows Netscape/XP inside?"

    So, since when does including one product in another require you to combine names? Besides, the Linux kernel *can* be used with no GNU add-ons at all. In fact, I suspect it actually is done that way in some embedded systems where the GNU utils may not be needed.

    Even if you concede that the kernel itself is "Linux" why does the combination of the kernel, GNU utils, Gnome/KDE, etc. have to be called GNU/Linux? If you feel it should, then shouldn't Red Hat say they sell GNU/Apache/Gnome/KDE/Linux?

    I'm not actually opposed to someon calling it GNU/Linux, but I do have a problem with the whole issue becoming flamewar or the topic of an entire article. People usually call it Linux. No big surprise, it's shorter than GNU/Linux! Most people call Windows XP just "Windows" for the same reason. In fact, usually the only reason people use the full name is to abide trademark laws, or to differentiate from other versions of Windows.

  42. I think you miss the point: linux *IS* just the kernel; when you buy or download a "linux distribution" such as RedHat or SuSE, you not only get the kernel, but a collection of other software from a wide variety of sources pulled together into a Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    I think you miss the point: linux *IS* just the kernel; when you buy or download a "linux distribution" such as RedHat or SuSE, you not only get the kernel, but a collection of other software from a wide variety of sources pulled together into a single package. Common usage has conflated "linux" with "linux distribution" but Stallman's point remains valid.

  43. 90% of these posts should be ignored of course, because they only serve to demonstrate why the Linux and FOSS communities are so often called things like "hostile" and "zealous". The most annoying, impulsive, and harsh people are the Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    90% of these posts should be ignored of course, because they only serve to demonstrate why the Linux and FOSS communities are so often called things like "hostile" and "zealous". The most annoying, impulsive, and harsh people are the ones who tend to get noticed and remembered. Not fair, but true. It's also a shame that most of the complaints about your article take issue only with your apparent opinion, and not with the quality of the writing you produced. The rare intelligent-sounding people are the ones who point out that, yes, your article did fail to answer (or even properly address) the question it raised. That's the only real failing of the article. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who will attack you because your article hints at a possibility that you don't share their world view, and somehow that makes you a poor journalist.

    That said, I do feel the need to partially correct your comment that Linux is a piece of software, and not a religion. 30 years ago, you would have been completely right. Because 30 years ago, open source wasn't a new concept; it was the only concept. Software wasn't in high global demand, and since most organizations were producing code for themselves anyway, sharing wasn't such an evil idea. The idea of hoarding your secret code to keep people dependent on your software company came later and made the software industry what it is today (for good and bad). But today, the software industry is much like your government. In theory the power is in your hands to change it for the better, but in practice, the people in control do an excelent job of preventing change that is not in their interest.

    So for FOSS (And Linux as one of its most successful champions) to gain a serious following today is not just a change in consumers' moods. It's a chance to put more power back in the hands of consumers all over the world. While I personally don't think it qualifies as a religion, it is a means of promoting freedom, science, and the advancement of society as a whole.

    Yes, Linux is a piece of software, much like any country's declaration of independence is a piece of paper. It's what it represents that people get intense about. And that's not as unhealthy as some people seem to think.

  44. It has always seemed a bit strange that ZD net lets idiots write articels on ZD net. It's not often you have an interesting well written story, more often it's just nothing. And here, the same thing again. First of all, the author makes you bel Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    It has always seemed a bit strange that ZD net lets idiots write articels on ZD net. It's not often you have an interesting well written story, more often it's just nothing. And here, the same thing again.

    First of all, the author makes you believe Linus Torvalds has taken the credit for the GNU stuff - he *never* has.

    Secondly, the author makes you believe that "linux-based OSes use GNU stuff and GNU doesn't get enough credit" is something new that nobody ever thought of, and that he is the very first to discover this sensational fact that "linux" is more than just the kernel. So stupid.

    The author is for certain a clueless nobody without any knowledge about what he is writing about.

    ZD net shouldn't let this kind of rubbish be posted on their site.

  45. There are some serious problems with this article. It starts out by repeating some of the logic of Brown's report in such a way as to make it seem as though it is not the logic, but the understanding of Ken Brown which was flawed. The way that t Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    There are some serious problems with this article.

    It starts out by repeating some of the logic of Brown's report in such a way as to make it seem as though it is not the logic, but the understanding of Ken Brown which was flawed. The way that the report is spoken of also makes it seem that the author lacks full understanding of some of the points he is trying to make. The article repeats the reports comparison of Minix to Linux as though Brown didn't understand that Minix and Linux were not comparable. Minix and Linux are comparable. They are based on a different kernel architectural style, but they are both basically just a kernel. There are many factors contributing to the different lengths of time between the start and end of these two projects, but the size of the code base is a relatively small one (original Minix was only slightly larger than the original Linux kernel).

    It is true that the Brown report does blur the distinction between an operating system and a system kernel in other places. Not only does it do this, but it also blurs the difference between the original Linux kernel and the present one. It seems quite apparent, however, that this is done purposely in an attempt to confuse the reader and not through some misunderstanding of Ken Brown.

    Then the article goes on to say about accusations that Microsoft funded AdTI to publish this report, "This is the classic Linuxhead reasoning that goes 'this Institution said something bad about Linux, Microsoft doesn't like Linux, therefore Microsoft must have paid them under the table to say it.'" This is nonsense. Microsoft's funding of AdTI in general is a well known fact publicized because it surfaced after another report that AdTI published a couple of years ago. In fact the very next sentence in the article agrees with the "Linuxheads" in that the report is "sensationalist fact-free nonsense."

    This article initially quotes the Brown report with practically no commentary, even displaying one of the quotes prominently as a sidebar. Then it insults people who initially criticized the report. Finally it mentions incidentally that, by the way, those who criticized it were correct. If I didn't know better, I would think that this was designed to incite inflammatory responses just so the author could say, 'Look at that. Even when I agree with these people they're still completely unreasonable.' So it starts out completely on the wrong foot.

    The the article goes on to say, "However, the report is 100 percent correct on one point: Linus Torvalds did not write Linux." This is at best entirely confusing and at worst entirely inaccurate. Linus Torvalds did write Linux initially (yes, keeping in mind that Linux is just the kernel). The article goes on to try to explain this statement by pointing out that what people mean when they say "Linux" is more than the Linux kernel itself, but the statement just made this point more confusing, not less.

    Mr. Mehlman also seems to be under the impression that Linus at some point distributed Linux as an entire operating system. I have never before heard that he ever distributed more than the kernel itself. As far as I know, entire distributions of Linux together with the GNU utilities to make it an operating system (and generally several other things as well) were first compiled and distributed by others and were not referred to by those that compiled them as simply "Linux," but by names such as "Yggdrasil" and "Slackware." Nobody ever purposely mislead people into thinking that Linux was all of what made up a Linux "distro." Linux was just the most convenient shorthand way to refer to these operatins systems in general.

    What seems to be the point the article is trying to make is that nobody is taking the Brown report to task about Linux being only a kernel and not an entire operating system. This is not true. Tanenbaum's rebuttals of the report are perhaps the best known, and they very effectively refute this notion at p

  46. Wow. So many morons. So little time ... Anonymous -- 09/07/04

    Wow. So many morons. So little time ...

  47. Jeez, Ricardo, how in blue blazes did you get to be a 'tech' when you are unable to even spell 'lose' properly (I do not mention embarrassing, everybody gets that wrong)). A tech, IMHO, would need to be aware of DETAIL, something you seem to lack. #1 - Anonymous -- 10/07/04

    Jeez, Ricardo, how in blue blazes did you get to be a 'tech' when you are unable to even spell 'lose' properly (I do not mention embarrassing, everybody gets that wrong)). A tech, IMHO, would need to be aware of DETAIL, something you seem to lack. #1 - Read the report entirely, #2 - Read the previous comments, you may learn your rant is unwarrented.

    My usual byline is - "I opened my mouth and proved them right", however, I think I will have to release it to you!

    Robert,
    ..... I opened my mouth and proved them right.

  48. To anonymous System Manager in Adelaide...... what's your real name? are you that afraid to release it? .... Technology does not come from the Morons in Academia, in fact, creative technology - electronics, programing etc, comes from Anonymous -- 11/07/04

    To anonymous System Manager in Adelaide......

    what's your real name? are you that afraid to release it? ....

    Technology does not come from the Morons in Academia, in fact, creative technology - electronics, programing etc, comes from people who usualy don't fit into the mould of "Goody goody Spellers' in the general schooling system that you seem to belong to.

    A sign of a real tech/geek is his spelling, he'll write you a complicated schematic or a complex alogarythim, but he'll misspell as well.

    System Manager sounds very generic, why exactly do you call yourself this? sounds like you just passed some spelling tests.

  49. on the other - other hand Who really gives a poop but MS? Is Linux built, even in some small way, on previous OS products? You bet your frickin' butt. Is it built on "stolen code"? Not likely. Where he heck do you think MS Windows came from Anonymous -- 12/07/04

    on the other - other hand
    Who really gives a poop but MS? Is Linux built, even in some small way, on previous OS products? You bet your frickin' butt. Is it built on "stolen code"? Not likely. Where he heck do you think MS Windows came from? If I'm not offered the opportunity to tell MS what I think of them, please relay my "significantly less than stellar" opinion.

  50. Mehlman wrote:"When Torvalds started distributing Linux in 1991, a large proportion of the software he bundled along with it was written by the GNU Project." That's a little off. Yes, most of what you installed to get Linux running wa Anonymous -- 11/06/05

    Mehlman wrote:"When Torvalds started distributing Linux in 1991, a large proportion of the software he bundled along with it was written by the GNU Project."

    That's a little off. Yes, most of what you installed to get Linux running was GNU. But I've been using Linux since kernel 0.12pl18, and I never saw Linus distribute anything but kernel source and utilities like mkfs. Other people wrote the C library and later the runtime linker. Maybe Linus wrote crt0 but I think that was "HJ." Of course Stallman and his GNU team wrote and maintained GCC and Make and As and Ld. Most of us used Paul Vixie's cron and Ian Lance Taylor's UUCP. It wasn't long before Larry Wall's perl was mandatory. Still other people integrated those components into GNU/Linux distributions. Linus' genius was in recognizing and reusing great stuff like GCC and the copyleft, and in attracting and motivating volunteers. The birth of Linux was a bit like Tom Sawyer's fence painting.

    The first Linux distribution I tried was Softlanding, which was so bad I switched immediately to HJ Liu's "GCC" distribution. Softlanding was replaced by Slackware, and GCC went away, more's the pity. (Another early distro I really liked was Milieu. It came with everything you needed to use the Stanford typesetting system ([La]TeX, metafont...) from Knuth and Lamport, and was part of a computer science course where the exercises all produced really beautiful documents.) But if there was ever a Torvalds Distribution, I never heard about it.

    These days, the best distro is which ever distro meets your needs best. I like Debian. I like Knoppix so much I've been seen handing out free copies.

    And HJ Liu's emails are still the best installation docs I've ever seen with any distro. No fluff. Nothing missing. Just "run this command" and "this is what will happen" and it all worked perfectly.

    Cameron