Torvalds surprised by resilience of 2.6 kernel

By Munir Kotadia and Chris Duckett, ZDNet Australia

17 January 2007 12:01 PM

Tags: linus torvalds, lca2007, linux, kernel, 2.6, 2.7, open source, resilience

exclusive Linus Torvalds explains why the unexpected resilience of kernel version 2.6 has delayed the move to kernel version 2.7. In this two minute video he said that when work started on 2.6, he was worried that major changes would destabilise the kernel.

In order to watch video content you need to enable javascript and install Flash player version 8 or above.

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On the second day of Linux.conf.au in Sydney, Linus Torvalds revealed that he was surprised by the resilience of the 2.6 Linux kernel to "invasive" changes.

"One of the original worries was that we would not be able to make big changes within the confines of the development model ... I always said that if there is something so fundamental that everything will break then we will start at 2.7 at that point.

"We have been able to do fairly invasive things even while not actually destabilising the kernel. It has surprised me and other people how well we have been able to do big changes that did not cause havoc.

"Sometimes it has been slightly painful," he added.

Torvalds also talked about why "unfriendly" kernel developers are making it more difficult attracting new blood. Click here to see this three minute video.

To all Linux users, this video is presented in Flash 8 and has been tested successfully for use with Linux systems running the latest Flash plug-in for Linux (ver. 9.0). Currently, this version is not available from Adobe for those running 64-bit Linux.

You'll need Macromedia Flash Player 8 or above in order to view some of our content. Download now!

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Talkback 40 comments

Add your opinion

Flash 8 Jack Byer -- 17/01/07

Kind of ironic that your video about the linux kernel can not be watched on a computer running said kernel, since flash 8 is not available for linux...

How about flashplayer 9? Anonymous -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073122)

http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/
index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=
ShockwaveFlash&P2_Platform=
Linux&P3_Browser_Version=Netscape4

Flash 8 > Flash 9 Anonymous -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073123)

I have flash 9, and the applet still wants me to "upgrade" to flash 8.

Flash Check Anonymous -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073127)

Is the plug-in setup right?

What version does the below link show...

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=tn_15507

Flash Player For Linux Chad Sikorra -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073122)

Actually, Flash 9 is available for Linux at www.adobe.com.

Just in time Jack Byer -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073124)

Almost as soon as I wrote that comment, I found out that it was released today. Really that was an accident I doubt ZDNet even gave any thought at all about if this file would actually play on a linux machine.

No flash for 64 bit Linux etteyafed -- 10/09/07 (in reply to #320073124)

There is not currently, nor does Adobe plan to release a version of flash player 9 for Linux running on x86_64 AKA 64bit Linux. I was only able to install and use the flash plugin for Linux by hacking the install script and changing the arch bit in the binary. It still refuses work properly, I can't view this site's video, but youtube works.

OK Ubuntu runs flash on 64 with nspluginwrapper etteyafed -- 10/09/07 (in reply to #320085888)

Well thats ok but an update broke both a 32bit lib (libxcomposite1) and the postinst script for flashplugin-nonfree calls nspluginwrapper -n instad of with -i pluginfile
and you need to link the plugin manually into the browser plugin directory.

Plays in Ubuntu Edgy Anonymous -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073122)

I can watch the video fine on Ubuntu Edgy.

about:plugins
File name: libflashplayer.so
Shockwave Flash 9.0 d78

Not True Mark Henle -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073122)

As someone who just watched the video on Ubuntu Edgy, Firefox 2, and Flash 9, I'd have to say you just haven't configured your machine correctly.

Not quite true Anonymous -- 18/01/07 (in reply to #320073152)

As someone who runs linux on powerpc, I'd have to say you are using x86. Adobe never released a flash plugin for linux/ppc.

Flash?! Jarod -- 17/01/07

Why is a interview with an open source programmer about open source software posted in a proprietary format?

Did I miss something?

Re: Flash?! Brendon Higgins -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073125)

Don't worry, I'm sure someone at zdnet will be happy to post a .doc of the transcript. :)

oh well Anonymous -- 17/01/07

how stupid do you have to get to force us to update a buggy piece of proprietary program in order to listen to an interview with Torvalds?

or is this some weird Adobe ad?

weird... weird...

huh? Michael Reilly -- 17/01/07

But it wasn't released today, I've had it installed for around 2.5 months.

opps. Michael Reilly -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073141)

Ignore this improperly threaded comment, this was intended as a reply to the first thread

Huh? Anonymous -- 18/01/07 (in reply to #320073141)

He's not saying its a new kernel, he's saying it adapts well when the kernel developers make CHANGES to the source to add in new things, or fix bugs, that it has remained stable in spite rather invasive modifications made.

Agree Mark Constable -- 17/01/07

Yep, I'm going to have to abstain on principle. Why oh why can't all these new fangled flash based video sites be civilized and add a simple direct download link to the material? I wish the original site that linked to this article mentioned it was flash only so I didn't have to give Zdnet another click view. I won't get caught by coming to this site again.

You guys are kidding, right? Anonymous -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073147)

Are you seriously so disillusioned that you can't understand why a website that serves millions of users each day would use a format that 98% of said users' machines support, with the ability to include the video inside of the document? Until Adobe starts incorporating spy/ad-ware, I won't have a problem with Flash content.

While you're at it, name a stable, accessible, reasonable open-source alternative that can serve ZDNet's purposes.

Please, get over it!

A stable, accessible, reasonable open-source alternative that can serve ZDNet's Vipul Delwadia -- 17/01/07 (in reply to #320073156)

It's called ogg.

Is it really that hard to have a direct link to a file? Sure you may argue that that takes up extra room on ZDNet's servers etc etc, but in this case it's a linux article. Surely the person writing the article could at least provide the video in a playable by all format for linux users?

Flash can be used as spyware Anonymous -- 18/01/07 (in reply to #320073156)

Flash developers use "Persistent Identification Elements" see http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/pie.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Player

Like tracking cookies, but you can't delete them.

go get flash 9 booger -- 17/01/07

http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz

This video is broken; next digg.org Anonymous -- 17/01/07

WOFTAM?

Not invasive?! Anonymous -- 18/01/07

What does he mean the changes have been non-invasive? Just the other day I was compiling something and received a warning that sysctl() has been deprecated as of 2.6.18! If that's non invasive, I want to know what _is_ invasive

IDIOT !! He said INVASIVE John Smith -- 18/01/07 (in reply to #320073176)

He said the changes were invasive.

Invasive Anonymous -- 18/01/07 (in reply to #320073176)

He said that invasive changes were made without killing the kernel. Those changes were gradual and the developers gave months of warning before they were removed. BTW, the kernel subsytems still have compatibility with the old model to facilitate the changeover.

I cant watch it either after upgrading flash - ZDNET SUCKS Kirby Foster -- 18/01/07

Really funny ZDNET guys!! Is this supposed to be a joke? An article about Linux that none of us can SEE, Ha hahahahahahah
Kirby

flash for linux == moronic Anonymous -- 18/01/07

what tool thought posting a video interview of THE Linux developer in flash format was a good idea ?

let's review:
- flash works only on x86 linux
- flash does not work on anything
- flash is garbage
- people who post video interviews of Linux developers in flash formats are tools

we're trying to sort this out Fran Foo -- 18/01/07

hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to write in. we're trying to sort this out and find the best possible solution as soon as possible.

please don't hesitate to contact me directly if you have more Qs.

cheers
fran
_______________________
Fran Foo
editor, zdnet.com.au
fran.foo@zdnet.com.au

Thanks, Fran Anonymous -- 21/01/07 (in reply to #320073206)

The solution is OGG.

If you want to cover free software, please provide video in the preferred F/LOSS no-spyware video.

(Of course you can also leave proprietary Flash or WMV in the article too, for Windoze users who don't want to bother with downloading a suitable player. )

Thanks

OGG Fran Foo -- 22/01/07 (in reply to #320073408)

thanks mate. that's something we're investigating. one challenge is to strike a balance between copyright and multiple video formats (streaming & downloadable).

cheers
fran
_______________________
Fran Foo
editor, zdnet.com.au
fran.foo@zdnet.com.au

Flash tracyanne -- 18/01/07

They are using Flash because Linux has such a small market share that no one cares what Linux users want.

video's format SUCKS someone -- 18/01/07

AT LEAST it should be possible to cache the video ON DISK FOR GOD SAKES!!!

Video does not cache Anonymous -- 18/01/07 (in reply to #320073237)

For us with 3rd world-eske internet connections (maybe I over exaggerate a little); playing back these videos is almost impossible; it plays a little bit and then has to cache again :(

Flash sucks Anonymous -- 23/01/07

Ok cause every linux nerd wanting to watch Linus has flash installed.

This is why Windows succeeds Anonymous -- 08/02/07

Very good example of why Windows still reigns in the desktop arena...things just work. Don't get me wrong, Linux and Unix variants have their place in the world....but unless more people start doing what Apple has done with OS X, that place will never be the desktop.

Won't work on Windows either Anonymous -- 15/02/07 (in reply to #320074374)

I am Linux user and forced to use Windows here at work. Trying to view the video and nothing, the dots keep revolving for minutes but no show.

Windows Just works ? Pffhhh!!

flash killing my cpu ubunto -- 15/02/08

why while I'm watching this my firefox use 100% cpu on my ubuntu box??

I've forget add ubunto -- 15/02/08 (in reply to #320095559)

that it just like IE7+Flash+XP :) Firefox+Flash+XP is ok

This answers a question or 2 Anonymous -- 17/03/08

Thanks for this video. Some of the documentation that comes with the Linux kernel recommends that you only submit small bits to a maintainer due to them having little time. It seems that the maintainers (including Linus etc) are getting much more daring. I wonder if this is more of a result of more corporate funding and a critical mass of resources available to GPL projects allowing more effecient and full-time kernel development rather than a more 'mature kernel'. I do think the kernel is very mature though.

Running openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64). Video played right "out of the box". (It is a pitty it was not the same experience on my laptop - that needed me compile a mach64 DRM module etc... come on novell, give me unstable software and module OPTIONS like the kernel does).

Adobe is no worse than other companies and flash is a good product. I generally avoid it so mobile phones etc can view content though.
http://blogs.adobe.com/open/2007/07/feel_the_love.html

-- Ben Holmes