No tax support for Mac or Linux yet

The Australian Taxation Office has advised Australians using Apple or Linux operating systems that they will be unable to lodge tax returns electronically using the ATO's e-tax software unless they use a Windows emulator or a kiosk in one of the agency's shop fronts.

Last year, 1.9 million Australians lodged their tax returns online using the ATO's e-tax software. But e-tax still only works with Microsoft's operating systems; Windows 2000 Professional Service Pack 4, XP Service Pack 2 (32-bit) or Vista Service Pack 1 (32-bit).

However, e-tax is not compatible with Linux or Mac OS X, but according to the ATO, it has successfully trialled e-tax with Macs running OS X 10.4.3 with Windows emulator software, Microsoft's Virtual PC 7.

A spokesperson for the ATO said that the agency did have plans to make e-tax compatible with other platforms in future years, but advised Mac and other non-compatible system users to "come into a Tax Office shopfront and use e-tax on a shopfront computer" if they wanted to lodge their returns electronically.

The ATO last March said that a pilot test with users on non-Microsoft operating systems would run in 2008, with a view to a possible roll-out in 2009.

Users will also require full administration rights on their PCs to use e-tax.

According to analyst firm Gartner, 63,065 Macs were shipped to Australia in the first quarter of 2008, representing 5.3 per cent of all computers shipped here.

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1. e-tax Dean -- 25/07/08

   I used e-tax this year, and it looks to me like it's a Visual Basic 6 application. It's going to be some engineering effort to port it to another operating system, because you'd essentially have to re-write it from scratch.
   
   I'd hate to be the developer tasked with *that* particular project! Perhaps you could try porting it to VB.NET, then trying to get it to run on mono...

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   1. Why did they choose VB6? Anonymous -- 25/07/08

      One then needs to ask why the ATO chose to write it in VB6 - that very choice locked users of other platforms out. They have made the rod for their own back and the excuse that we can't do it because it is written in VB6 doesn't cut the mustard.

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   2. Good question Dean -- 25/07/08

      It's a good question. My guess would be that it was not written by "professional" programmers; rather it was written by taxation experts who had a bit of programming knowledge. That's usually the way things get written in VB6, in my experience...
      
      Don't forget, e-tax was not written from scratch *this year* -- it was written some time ago, and presumably somebody just has to tweak it slightly each year for the new/updated rules.

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   3. crap crap crap Anonymous -- 26/07/08

      what a waste of tax payers money. They should have used java.

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2. eTax Security and privacy Bill Caelli -- 25/07/08

   Alarm bells in the Zdnet report!
   
   You need "ADMIN privileges" to run the eTax application, even under Microsoft VISTA? Is this the recommendation of the Tax office information security officer(s) and the Defence Signals Directorate (DSD), responsible for advice to government departments?
   
   Obviously the Tax office warrants and guarantees that its eTax application has the necessary security functionality and has been evaluated so as to be "fit for function", e.g. doesn't just start up an SSL session as their website says they do via port 443, etc.
   
   It is up to our Federal Government, and its departments and agencies, to take the lead in information security and assurance, particularly in such a vital area as the taxation system.
   
   They require, for example, your Microsoft Windows PC to be fully patched and malware systems up-to-date (try that at dial-up speeds- impossible) in the following words:
   "Before submitting any personal details online you should ensure your computer has the latest operating system, web browsing and security updates installed. Vendors regularly release updates to their software available free from their websites." - Yet, ATO wants you to download a program and allegedly execute it with admin privileges.
   
   Once upon a time - remember the days of GOSIP - yes, Government Open Systems Interconnection Profile - it was accepted that tax payers would NOT support development and deployment of Federal Government information systems that were "locked into" one supplier.
   
   That vitally important ethical principal has obviously died in Canberra.

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   1. WINDOWS Vista Dean -- 25/07/08

      "even under Microsoft VISTA"
      
      It works without administrator privileges under Vista. The only reason it "requires" administrator privileges is because the software saves it's temporary files in the Program Files directory. Vista has mitigations for applications that are badly behaved like this.
      
      As I said above, I believe e-tax was written in VB6 (which is almost 10 years old now) so you're going to see lots of this kind of thing.

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3. Yes there is - eTax2008 can be installed in Linux using Wine ozcluster -- 25/07/08

   I have just installed eTax2008 using Linux + Wine 1.0 without any problems.
   
   Previously I also used eTax 07 and eTax 06 on Linux (with earlier versions of Wine) and was successful in submiting my return using it.

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   1. ...ah, but have you lodged your return yet? Anonymous -- 25/07/08

      I've read that running it is easy- lodging is when it fails.

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   2. can't even get to lodge it moses -- 26/07/08

      I tried running it - only able to get to the pre-filling screen. No matter if I press Yes or No to prefilling, it just doesn't do anything...

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   3. Don't use prefilling - use rollover of previous year ozcluster -- 26/07/08

      Yes, I also found that in eTax2008 prefilling does not work. That was my experience with eTax2007 as well.
      
      I found by immediately clicking 'No' to prefilling that I can continue to enter my return information. I could also rollover previous year data thus saving time with this year's return.

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   4. Wait are you serious ? Anonymous -- 26/07/08

      Wait are you serious ? .... any requirements / how did you get it working. If you can tell us perhaps all of us not on windows who can use wine (including macs) can run the app.

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   5. I tested this it works Anonymous -- 29/07/08

      I tested this it works --- using wine on ubuntu hardy 8.04 you can do your tax returns. Those on a mac can use wine as well .... this isn't the most clean solution and there might be a few minor --glitches i will test it later when i actually file my tax.

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4. they need mac support.. Yves -- 26/07/08

   ..it was annoying using my brother's comp for my tax return. It was an inconvenience for him and it was difficult going back to windows.
   
   I mean there are so many worse things to complain about in this world, but seriously this isn't a P2P program made in some random's backyard. It comes from the Australian Government.

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5. e-Tax Anonymous -- 26/07/08

   Why in this day and age are the ATO developing an app in VB6 and why does it use a fat client? That's embarassing!
   
   They could easily develop a web-based/applet-based version that would be platform independent and just run through a browser - how do they think the rest of industry gets around this? And most firms moved away from this draconian approach years ago.
   
   Come on ATO - you take enough of my money, spend it on some decent services to underpin the shoddy and overly complex operation you run!

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6. Make em write a good app Anonymous -- 27/07/08

   Fill out the paper one -- That'll learn em.

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7. Incompetent bunch of idiots Anonymous -- 27/07/08

   Typical incompetent and arrogant public servant mentality. I would not expect anything more. And I had to laugh at seeing they recommend you go visit a kiosk to submit your return electronically. Shows what brainless clowns they are. That's a 'workaround' is it? Its quicker to just write it out an post it you morons. The idea of ETax is that you do it simply from your PC at your desk, where your data is. Duuuuh. A ten year old could work that out.

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8. eTax Anonymous -- 27/07/08

   Sounds to me that, you need to start putting pressure on you elected officals to get equal access to online services.
   Over here in Canada, I use LInux and I'm able to use any of our online tax services, we just need to have a browser that supports 128-bit Secure Sockets Layer Version 3.0 (SSLV3) encryption.

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9. Typical Joe -- 27/07/08

   Would Zdnet publish this story if Windows wasnt supported? No, they would turn it round and say something like "ATO moves on from Windows and embraces Linux and Mac".
   
   Software thats available on Windows and not other platfrms is common, thats one of the reasons to choose Windows over inferior operating systems.

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   1. RE: Typical Anthony -- 27/07/08

      I think if the ATO moved away from Windows and only supported Linux and Mac, it would be a good thing!

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   2. For sure! Anonymous -- 28/07/08

      For sure that's a good reason to use winDOS! How else could the Russian Maffia get all your info via one of the many keyloggers and Trojans if you wouldn't run their favorite broken system?

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   3. inferior???? Anonymous -- 28/07/08

      inferior????
      um... dude please stop and think before you speak. like we don't get viruses blue screens of death or have any problems. ok so Because a few apps atm only run on windows doesn't make it superior. the article is directed at promoting software that should accessibly by all. But you know i take it your wouldn't be using the vastly inferior bsd tsp/ip stack base for your networking oh wait.... windows took their tcp/ip code base FROM BSD oops.

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   4. actually Anonymous -- 28/07/08

      The TCP/IP stack in Vista was completey re-written from the ground up. Windows is superior in so many ways. Its more secure than Mac (vista is anyware, compare the number of vulnerabilities and the recent hacking contest). Serious virus's are a thing of the past with the last major virus being years ago.
      
      Windows has massive massive hardware and software choices with unlimited potential, not some boxed in solution.
      
      P.S Blue screens of death are so 2000. Wake up.

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   5. Oh yeah sure dude. Anonymous -- 29/07/08

      http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/Bulletin/MS08-001.mspx
      Oh really yeah I believe you.. totally rewrote the tcp/ip stack ....
      Look you can't just knock an os and say its inferior and provide the reason that one piece of software doesn't work on it. This isn't about my os is better than yours. This is about standards and open access. If i see you having a heart attack I will call an ambulance -- are you not going to do the same for me because I am not like you ? NO. well .. at least i hope you would save me -- i would save you / try too. This is an extreme example, yes but it has to be given to those who want to be silly and act in a child like manner. Also, go tell the end users of vista that its ok that their new os doesn't do what they did in windows xp (easily ) it can't use certain old hardware (??? ) and it requires newer hardware to run on. I have yet to find an end user who actually enjoys using vista and hasn't had a problem with it .

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   6. Yes and Anonymous -- 29/07/08

      Yes and I'm saying vista is crap, i'm saying that its not as good for certain end users these days. If you want to just go blah is not good do it elsewhere and provide full reasoning. I don't want to here how vista works for you... you are not an end user. I have played with vista.. my friends on vista etc. all agree that its not ready for your average joe yet. Windows xp should be continued on for those kind of users... i know microsoft wants the hardware vendors to write drivers for vista / better ones but... its not ready yet ... its no where as finished or as polished as mac os x in my opinion.

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   7. oop meant to say the reverse *--- Anonymous -- 29/07/08

      oop meant to say the reverse *---vista is not crap -- is what i meant to say NOTE the NOTE.

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10. E-Tax Anonymous -- 28/07/08

    Why should I install this software on my PC just for the Tax Depts convenience - and to save them money?
    
    What crap doe it leave behind when I uninstall it?

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11. Anti-competitive? Anonymous -- 28/07/08

    I don't know about Australian law, but under European law this would be an example of the state distorting the market.. Tackling it is non-trivial, however, as it takes sustained effort. This same issue has been raised in UK Parliament by a British MP, to no response by the government (which doesn't mean it's all over)

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12. ? Lord Watchdog -- 28/07/08

    What about simply implementing a web form? They could then use VB6 in the form of ASP and because it is a server-side technology it will work, no matter whether it is viewed in DOS, Vista, OSX or whatever.
    
    Am I missing something? Is there a specific reason why a form on the ATO website can't be used? If verification and identification are issues I am sure that a few of these highly paid public servants could bang their heads together and come up with a way around it.
    
    We can do our banking, apply for loans and credit cards, apply for insurance and even apply for a job by filling out forms on websites. Why can't we claim refunds from the ATO the same way?

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13. e-tax Anonymous -- 28/07/08

    Of course all Aussies have a PC with M$ Windows and a internet connection, and of course they are all PC literae and Tax savvy.

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14. don't hold your breath Jeremy -- 29/07/08

    if you've tried to download etax you'll get the message on how anti-usable the ATO is (takes four screens of obfuscatory gumph with almost hidden links in each before the download starts)
    
    I thought they had employed a bunch of Interaction Designers in the last few years.. but looks as though etax is one channel that is resistant

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15. e-tax Anonymous -- 29/07/08

    It's delphi not VB6 and was written 8 or 9 years ago. it has been updated every year since (tax changes are yearly basis). it's design was outsourced as developing something as complex as tax software is very expensive and time consuming. there is very little competitive advantage into redeveloping from scratch unless the ATO dish out multiple seven figure sums. As a competitive decision windows is the way to go simply becasue the majority of people in Aus use windows based machines - get off the high horses and think from a business perspective, why create a comercial software package for 2% of the market, it is not cost effective

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16. Linux + Wine works Anonymous -- 29/07/08

    I'm a tax accountant who inevitably does all the friends and family tax returns in exchange for some alcoholic beverages.
    
    I've lodged 2007 using E-tax and wine under Ubuntu and got 2008 working no probs, with the exception of pre-filling (which is a joke anyway on so many levels). Never had an issue. To install download the file, double click, let it install and then double click the icon on the desktop to use it (Linux is so difficult *sarcasm*).
    
    Other issue is that I doubt the security and integrity of the program.
    
    Also, i would rather use my professional program as the way E-tax is designed frustrates me as I just want to be able to jump to the right item straight away. Their website is awful too. Sorry ATO, love the portal, hate the public site.
    
    As for retards saying "windows is superior, the others are inferior" - please leave your ignorant, trolling comments alone. No-one likes an idiot. If you have to re-learn windows from XP to Vista, why not learn Linux - it's free and you won't have the AFP knocking on your door at midnight because someone has used your pc to forward packets to an illegal site.

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17. Mac support Anonymous -- 14/08/08

    Virtual PC support for Mac was discontinued two years ago. Why doesn't the tax office support hardware that is over two years old? They are not serious.

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