Fighting FUD with FUD



OPINION: The total cost of the unending Linux-Windows argument is a great big headache--this latest attempt leaves us none the wiser. Mehlman

A few weeks ago an Australian company called Cybersource released a study which claimed to compare the total cost of ownership of running a 250-person organisation's IT resources on commercial (mostly Microsoft) versus open-source/free software.

At Technology & Business magazine we're constantly reminded how important the issue of TCO is to IT managers, and that just looking at the upfront cost never gives you the complete picture.

This story was reported in local IT media such as the AustralianIT site, and even further afield, like The Register in the UK. For some reason, Slashdot ignored it.

Most people upon reading a report like this would--or should--wonder what sort of organisation Cybersource is.

According to the company's Web site, Cybersource is "Australia's leading provider of IT services in the areas focusing on Linux, Unix, TCP/IP, and Windows". Ahem. If that's not enough of a giveaway, Cybersource's CEO Con Zymaris has in the past offered to write a Linux column for ZDNet Australia--for free. Impartial? Hardly.

Most people would also want to look at the assumptions made in the study to see if they were realistic.

The study claims that, all other things being equal, the savings on software client licenses minus the additional cost of Linux-savvy staff would come to US$251,393.55 over three years. All other things being equal. Right.

Let's say every bit of commercial software in an organisation can be replaced with free-software alternatives. Leave aside that the study doesn't even consider support contracts, and claims Linux is not vulnerable to viruses. Ignore that it quotes off-the-shelf prices for all the applications, when a company buying 250 copies would pay considerably less. Why quibble over details?

The 245 desktop systems in this organisation would have Linux OS installed, OpenOffice instead of Microsoft Office, GIMP instead of Photoshop, and so on.

Sure, the savings on licences would be enormous, but what of the productivity losses in retraining all the staff to use an unfamiliar interface and applications? Does the study assume everyone in the organisation could make the transition with no training, without ever having to call helpdesk or read a help file?

Then there are the ongoing productivity losses when staff discover that even though OpenOffice is "compatible" with Microsoft Office, that doesn't mean "compatible all the time for all documents".

Likewise, all the commercial server software in this organisation is replaced with free-software alternatives: Windows 2000 Server with Linux, IIS with Apache, SQL Server with PostgreSQL, Exchange Server with Sendmail, and ISA Server with iptables. The savings on client licenses would be impressive, but there are hidden costs the study once again conveniently ignores.

It doesn't take into account, for example, how much more time IT staff would have to spend installing, configuring, maintaining, and integrating all this software using Linux.

Friends who work in IT have told me horror stories about having systems down for days while trying to work around library incompatibilities.

They've told me about finding an obscure reference in a French Linux discussion group about a configuration file in a totally illogical location without which the application won't do what it's supposed to.

Given there are only so many hours in a year, if the same number of staff are expected to maintain the same sized organisation, they'll either be working much longer hours, or the company will have to hire more staff. Staff who are overworked are more likely to leave, thus there's the enormous expense of recruiting replacements.

These are some of the more obvious holes in the methodology. I'm sure there are others.

Before you Linuxheads out there start bombarding me with hate mail, I'm not saying Linux has no place in the enterprise, just that there's a tradeoff--the software is free, time isn't.

I'm also well aware that Linux is fighting a propaganda war against an enemy with vast marketing resources and the social conscience of a uranium mining company executive on a dirty weekend. But fighting FUD with FUD leaves you with as much credibility as The Enemy.

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Talkback 39 comments

    In response to this piece rega ...Con Zymaris -- 03/06/02

    In response to this piece regarding our Linux vs. Windows: Total Cost of Ownership Study (which showed that Linux as 34% less costly than Windows to run) I wanted to make a few clarifications and highlight some issues:

    1) Cybersource is not a firm of analysts, but 'in-the-trenches' techies who have over a decade's experience in managing and supporting both platforms.

    2) I can categorically state that Cybersource received no payments to research and produce this or any other report. Few supposedly
    'independent' analysts can do likewise.

    3) Josh claims that the report was anti-Microsoft FUD, but cannot fault
    the numbers given nor the process by which they were arrived at. In return, he proffers once-off opinions provided by friends. In short, it's not FUD if it's actually true ;-)

    4) Further, he misread the Study vis: "IT staff would take more time to deploy Linux...". Linux-trained staff were enacted to operate these systems, being efficient in their deployment and support, thus obviating
    this issue.

    5) Josh claims a "time and training burden" for Linux on the desktop, but offers no research or proof. My own research and discussions with a number of organisations in the US, Korea, Finland etc. indicates that
    "minimal or no retraining" of end-user staff is needed to migrate non-power-users from Windows to Linux. Specifically, discussions with the IT Manager for Mastertrade (an appliance wholesaler with 47 branches
    across New Zealand) indicate that for their migration of 300 workstations, no retraining was required.

    6) Josh claims that "a company buying 250 copies would pay considerably less" due to volume discount. I disagree. Take for example the recent Victorian government licence deal, for 40,000 Victorian public servants, to use essentially the same software as was reported in our TCO study. We calculated a cost of around AU$2,000 per user for the Microsoft solution. The Victorian government deal, which one would expect for 40,000 users should attract the highest possible discount,
    worked out to cost AU$80 million, or AU$2,000 per user. I don's see much of a volume discount at all.

    In closing, a proposal to the staff of Technology and Business: conduct an independent study into how easily a group of Windows users can perform a set number of day-to-day business office tasks on a modern
    Linux workstation, with no training and with no help. You may find the answers are a pleasant surprise.

    Retraining comments are ignora ...Anonymous -- 03/06/02

    Retraining comments are ignorant to the extreme, crawl back in your cave and start painting the wall, or go find your quill pen , maybe an abacus is more your speed and it would be to hard to retrain you to use a slide rule. Continuous training is reality of modern computer use. ie it is to hard and expensive to train people to use computers in the first place.

    Josh, why do you state that tr ...Anonymous -- 03/06/02

    Josh, why do you state that training people in using Linux costs money and neglect to mention that training people in the use of Windows costs money too?
    Actually reading your article I got the impression that you assume that there is no cost associated with Windows training.
    At least that is how your article comes across.

    Furthermore, once a Linux machine is set-up it requires dramatically less maintenance than a Windows machine.
    I know, because I administer both type of machines.

    Hans -- a reasonable question. ...Josh Mehlman -- 03/06/02

    Hans -- a reasonable question. I'm not saying there's no training costs associated with Windows. But if an organisation is already using Windows and switches to Linux, there would be a cost associated with retraining the staff to use a new system.
    Cybersource's study assumes the company exists in a vacuum, but a real-life company is pretty much guaranteed to be using some version of Windows right now -- so if the company did switch, there would be costs.
    Con -- you may not agree with this point, but the people who actually make Linux do. Keep an eye on the T&B letters page next month to find out more.
    Robert -- Unlike you, I'm not of the "Anyone who can't compile their own kernel doesn't deserve to use a computer" school of thought. Since you seem to assume I'm an idiot, you'll be pleased to know I wouldn't need any training to use a Linux desktop. But I wasn't writing about me.

    Josh, I would still recommend ...Con Zymaris -- 03/06/02

    Josh,

    I would still recommend that an entity like T & B, whose readership is within the realm of users who are beginning to seriously look at Linux on the corporate desktop, consider a trial of migrating non-techie, non-power users, from a base Windows desktop, to a Linux one, using OpenOffice instead of MS Office.

    Establish a benchmark of perhaps 50 tasks, such as opening documents, making changes, saving as HTML, embedding spreadsheets, saving the final document, sending it as an attachment, browsing the Web, etc etc., and see how much these users can do, with no re-training, and no assistance.

    Our research shows that most non-power users are well served, and are at-ease with this migration. This is also re-iterated by the recent Gartner piece which claimed that the needs of 80% of corporate users can be met through switching to Open/StarOffice, leaving the remaining 20% to use MS Office on Windows.

    Finally, while it is true that most non-techie users will likely have problems adding drivers for digital camera, installing software or changing their new Linux systems too much, from my background in systems support, this is a Good Thing(tm). Users should leave these activities to systems support staff, and not muck around with the corporate SOE. Linux helps considerably here, and allows the desktop to be locked tightly down.

    >gnore that it quotes off-t ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    >gnore that it quotes off-the-shelf prices for all
    >the applications, when a company buying 250 copies
    >would pay considerably less. Why quibble over >details?

    Let's add in the real possibility of a BSA/Microsoft audit... Hmmm. double the licensing costs, weeks of productivity lost for large parts of the organization
    Oh, but why quibble over the details?

    >Then there are the ongoing productivity losses >when staff discover that even though OpenOffice >is "compatible" with Microsoft Office, that >doesn't mean "compatible all the time for all >documents".

    Then there are the times you don't want to be on Microsoft's 'shake all the money out of them' oh, sorry, 'upgrade' schedule, and you discover that your versions of Excel, Word, etc will not open the Excel, word, Etc.. files some people are sending you. Compatibility issues never happen in the other direction do they? Oh, but why quibble over details?

    >Friends who work in IT have told me horror >stories about having systems down for days while >trying to work around library incompatibilities.
    These friends must be real hot stuff, putting stuff in production before testing.... And let's not forget where the term DLL Hell came from. Oh, but why quibble over details?

    >They've told me about finding an obscure >reference in a French Linux discussion group >about a configuration file in a totally >illogical location without which the application >won't do what it's supposed to.
    Same friends, huh? Quite a lot of details here, bro - more than enough for us to verify the truth of what you're typing. Obscure config files, eh? Oh, but then again, for whom was the term 'registry corrupt, reinstall OS' invented? And what large OS vendor is now moving completely away from a binary registry which cannot have embedded comments and back to text file configuration after 10 years of users' howls of protest and pain? Oh, but why quibble over details?

    If the Linux numbers look a little better because of the issues that you raise, I can assure you the Windows numbers look a lot better than real life because of the same issues.Before you Linuxheads out there start bombarding me with hate mail,

    If you have to retrain your st ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    If you have to retrain your staff to change software then your training in rubbish in the first place.

    Also, for the about cost of a Win 9x, you can have Codeweavers CrossOver Office - that solves the MS office retraining (assuming you are using MS Office 97/2k)!

    If I follow your line of thinking: Then pay for one Linux distro (might just be the cost of the blank cds) versus very single pc (and perhaps every computer that could run an MS OS given their licenses). All other user applications are the same (eg OpenOffice, Mozilla) and you have a real administrator.

    But there are multiple scenerios associated TCO but this part holds regardless!

    Josh has written an article th ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Josh has written an article that has responded to the study that questions it, but totally fails to support the questioning. He just gives opinions and hearsay responses. (how many people have horror stories of Windows installations?)

    He has responded to the more vitriolic comments, but has totally failed to acknowledge Cal's responses that do appear to give clear real world examples of why Josh's comments are wrong.

    Is this a case of FUD fighting FUD with FUD?
    Josh, either answer Cal's comments or amend your article.

    Library incompatibilities? Thi ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Library incompatibilities? This can happen with Windows too, only with open source software you can usually find the cure pretty quickly on the internet. I've had buggy Linux applications fixed within two days by the developers. I use Linux in my business because it doesn't keep breaking, and if something does occasionally go wrong it allows me to fix it. The article wasn't entirely unfair, especially the points made about retraining costs, but I think it played down the reliability problems of a lot of commercial software (and the reluctance of the vendors to admit there's anything wrong).

    I just have to laugh at your a ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    I just have to laugh at your article. I have used Linux since RedHat 5.1 and Slackware 3.5 so I know that their is a learning curve to it. But when it comes to ordinary people using it I would have to say you are just flat wrong.

    As I said I have used Linux for a long time. I am no expert at it I will admit, but it does what I want to do.

    Anyways back to why I replied to your article. My Dad knew I use linux and noticed that it never CRASHED on me and did everything that I needed it
    to do including run a few services. So when he asked me to install Linux on his system I was a little bit leary of doing it but I thought if I
    can install it and set it up so that it will do what he needs then he won't have any reason to fool around in root. So I went ahead and
    installed it. This was back around Oct. or Nov. of 2000.

    When he told me on New Year's eve 2000 that he thought most if not all of his files had been converted from windows to linux, and plans to use linux as his primary OS now I was needless to say a little bit shocked. He hasn't let me take windows off his system yet so he can be M$ FREE but but he has had me upgrade Linux and shrink his windows partition down to a little over 1GB to give more room to Linux.

    I know many, if not all of you, are probably thinking so what is the big deal about all of this?

    Well,....... He was 71+ years old and all I did was gave him a functional and working linux system, explained some of the basics like proper
    shutdown and such and, well...... He did the rest with very little help from me. He will soon have a windows coffe cup coaster for his computer desk. ;o)
    True story based on FACT.

    Many valid arguments, but Wind ...Alex Chejlyk -- 04/06/02

    Many valid arguments, but Windows reboots have to count as time! I timed the MS Windows reboots in a standard network install at a client with 15 older machines (PII 400's). I spent one hour and 48 minutes in reboots as I was installing hardware (NIC's) and software (MS Office, Photoshop, Acrobat) and Windows networking. I had to reload Win98 on two machines. We also had 5 linux boxes running RFB to connect to a Windows Terminal Server. OpenOffice and Gimp were installed in case the users ever wanted to try out the programs.The linuxboxes only had to reboot when we opened the case to add the new network card. Most of my time in the field is wasted on reboots, I do 2 minutes of config for 2 minutes of reboot time when dealing with Windows.

    I really hope this guy didn't ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    I really hope this guy didn't get paid for this article by anyone other than Bill Gates. What a load of crap. He completely misses the cost of re-training users on every new version of Microsoft Office - and don't even TRY to tell me they don't change the features/functions/interfaces between versions. Been there, used them. There IS a learning curve! And here are some other unmentioned perks to Linux in a workplace environment. If 'Joe Schmuck' worker wants to install his favourite windows games from home to play on company time, he can't - it won't run. So I guess he'll just have to work after all, huh? How about this - without root access, you won't have to worry about what they're installing - or trying to install, you won't have to worry about the next Klez or Code Red or Nimbda or I'm A Moron virus that comes along, you won't have to worry about the next forced upgrade (and that re-training on the new software! And those file incompatibilities! Oh no!), you won't have to worry about anything happening that you don't want to. The OS has no learning curve if you're not administering the system really. See the 'Start' button in windows? KDE and Gnome have one too. Even works with the Windows key on keyboards! Go up and down the menu, select your program (from the ones available to you that are needed for your job) and PRESTO! It runs. Just like Windows. Scary, isn't it! From an end-user point of view, there is nothing to learn really. Heck, my wife came off a 68K Mac before we were married, was confused as all out by Windows (and constantly mad at it's crashes), and had very little trouble with Linux - after I set up a user account for her with the "Mac-look" enabled (including Mac icons and window decorations) and all of the programs she used ready to run. Don't confuse an administrator's learning curve from an end-user's. Yes, Windows admins will have to learn fast or find a real job ... but *nix admins can do magical things with a few lines in a text file quickly!

    just one question ,how much di ...john doe -- 04/06/02

    just one question ,how much did M$ pay u
    to write this article ?
    how can prooving that TOC using linux
    is less than TOC using M$, be labelled as FUD.

    When upgrading time comes arou ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    When upgrading time comes around you have a training cost and frustration cost when setting up a new version of any software. You stated some obscure problems, these can be just as frustrating MS land if not worse, getting told its a user problem at $250 an hour went it is not, is annoying.

    I generally agree with your comments though, the article is not an indepth piece of writing being somewhat simplistic (but what do you expect for a small paper?), however its a start. I would expect a CIO to read it and then adapt and improve its model to his/her environment treating it as indicative only, at leat its assumptions are laid out so they can be challenged.

    regards

    Thing

    I support David's comments re ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    I support David's comments re the relative ease of transitioning from Windows to Linux. I recently reinstalled Windows 95 on my mother-in law's PC after an elderly friend had made some hardware improvements. The friend is over 80, and runs a PC in his home. He asked me if I had considered installing Linux. He runs Linux (I think he said Debian) on his PC and had done it all himself. He gave me an amazingly coherent and considered basis for his change. I felt embarassed for not doing likewise, but thought my mother in law would not cope with "something new". A lesson for us all.

    You have missed the main cost ...Grant Johnson -- 04/06/02

    You have missed the main cost of all. Sure that article mentioned licensing costs only, and although it is a substantial savings, it is still a drop in the bucket of the whole thing. As for training costs: Moving from Windows to Linux are similar to moving to a new version of Windows and Office. As for sysadmin cost, the initial install is high, but more than made up for within the first year by reduction of maintenance effort, and ease of use for administrators, since everything is text and scriptable. If we count the licensing cost as such a small portion of the total that it is a wash, the savings are still amazing in a corporate environment. In a small business or home environment where you do not have dedicated sysadmins, it may make sense to stay with whatever you have, but new GUI Linux admin tools are making the small business use more of a reality, and the fact that lost data costs more to you than a little install time makes it viable in the home. Besides, next time you have to re-install Windows because of a corrupted registry or DLL hell, Linux is easier to install than Windows anyway.

    Why Josh is throwing good FUD ...Sgt_Jake -- 04/06/02

    Why Josh is throwing good FUD after bad = From the research it is stated the total savings could be up to US$251,393.55, based on what seems to me to be very solid and pretty well researched numbers. You state it's FUD because of the following un-quantifiables;

    1) Retraining the staff on software.
    2) Support contracts.
    3) Productivity loss.
    4) More time the IT staff would have to spend configuring and maintaining.

    And I'm sorry to see it Josh, but your response is not-quite-but-almost-FUD for the following reasons -

    1) Retraining 250 users on software products that are very similar in form and function? It won't cost a fraction of that $250k. My team of 12 were given _no_ training, and so far they're doing fine with Star Office (I've had no calls, and I AM the ONLY support for that product).
    2) Support contracts - The numbers for Windows support contracts weren't considered either, but I'm willing to bet that a Linux support contract won't be $250,000 more than a Windows support contract.
    3) Productivity loss - FUD. If your secretary uses Word, it'll take her an hour to figure out StarOffice (or the other alternatives). Special functions won't amount to $250k in lost productivity. Short of a total system failure, I can't even imagine any productivity loss for 250 people would amount to that.
    4) A properly configured network is much much easier to maintain (as true in Windows as in Unix). Your assumption is based on the incorrect notion that Linux is inherently harder to maintain or manage - as I admin Windows, Linux and Solaris boxes, I can tell you that's simply not true. Anyone who tells you different (from either camp) is biased. Period. I'm sure your readers can provide numerous of examples from windows that parallel your friends experience with the library problem.

    Josh, you're in publishing so I can see why you'd balk at going to an alternative office suite. For finance, I can see the horror at losing excel. But for most industries, the functions that are like second hands to you have never been heard of by the rest of us. And the fact is, you could leave all your users on Windows desktops, changing the infrastructure to Linux for a considerable savings that the users wouldn't know or care about. (Again, you may feel compelled to sight the additional work involved, to which I can only tell you that a competent Linux admin is at least as good as a Windows admin.

    At the very least cybersource bothered to put some hard facts down, backing it up with links to pricing, products, and examples. All you've done is speculate as to why their research could be (or in your opinion, should be) FUD. You should leave that kind of speculation to the myriad of forum users. Or at least have the courtesy to try and prove that the numbers lie.

    Sgt_Jake

    Why Josh is wrong: I may have ...Sgt_Jake -- 04/06/02

    Why Josh is wrong: I may have overdone my last response, but I finally get why this article struck a cord (probably with all of us). He responded to Hans with -
    "Hans -- a reasonable question. I'm not saying there's no training costs associated with Windows. But if an organisation is already using Windows and switches to Linux, there would be a cost associated with retraining the staff to use a new system.
    Cybersource's study assumes the company exists in a vacuum, but a real-life company is pretty much guaranteed to be using some version of Windows right now -- so if the company did switch, there would be costs."

    The report clearly states at the top "An examination of the purchase and total operational costs of running an enterprise on Linux/Open Source in comparison to Microsoft's Windows computer system platforms".
    And at the bottom [A note on upgrading...] "As you by now would have realised, this study makes the assumption that the model organisation in question is implementing systems and application software from scratch." And continues to explain that they did it this way to accentuate the licencing differences and make them amenable to study and discussion. This report at no time even tried to discuss the cost of transition, nor did it try to lead the reader to believe that it was addressing this.

    In short Josh, it's not FUD after all. Their numbers are accurate as presented. The cost of transition from Windows to Linux would be a one time cost, not part of the TCO of your enterprise system. As far as I read, the only person who is accusing them of misleading anyone is you, because you either didn't read it very well or are prone to a particular opinion on this matter. Basically, you just made a mole hill, and in doing so, created a mountian.

    Sgt_Jake

    Ok, your article sites retrain ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Ok, your article sites retraining cost must be taken into account before a TOC evaluation can be done. Granted.

    However, developers and IT departments are currently at a cross roads as to which direction future development strategies. If they choose to continue to use, as a primary development environment, Windows, then all developers are going to have to learn the DOT.NET framework. If they go the Linux route, the same concentration of new development paradigms may or may not come into play, depending upon what they will be using to develop internal and customer based applications.

    If they chose the Windows route, all of the tools they would normally use (i.e. Visual Basic, Visual C++, Delphi, C++ Builder) will have to be changed to the DOT.NET language equivalents. This in and of itself brings retraining and rewrites of current software into the equation. If they have been using Java based development, then there is no change or little change in moving to something like JSDK 1.4.x and the upcoming J2EE 1.4. The current code base does not change and thus no retraining cost for the development. The platforms can be Windows currently and if TOC figures proved to be less using Linux based systems, then the software can be migrated from Windows to Linux, with little if any code rewrites.

    If they are using C/C++ and/or Perl/Python/Cobol, then there is no need for the strategic shift on the Linux platform.

    Of course if they are migrating from Visual Basic or Visual C++ to Linux, this would play a huge role in the decision making process. These applications would have to be rewritten for the most part, unless they could run under Wine (which I would not consider for Enterprise Applications for the most part. WineLib might be OK, but not Wine itself, IMHO).

    If a Windows future enters into the equation, then this will definitely require retraining of IT personnel, unless Java or a similar xplatform structure is utilized. This is much more costly and tedious than retraining Word Processing staff. This is a Microsoft forced issue, it is not an option for future development strategies. If any IT firm is doing Linux now, there is no such planned paradigm shift and they can be more assured that the code they write today will have a much longer shelf life.

    Since the organizational internal software is going to change using Windows or non-xplatform language(s)/platform(s), then retraining must occur regardless. If Office.NET becomes a reality, more retraining, not to mention the license fees that will have to be taken into account on a yearly subscription basis has to be taken into consideration.

    Personally, I think it foolish to put all of your eggs into one basket. Choosing Windows and Windows based technologies with such a major strategic change in direction of software development seems foolish and imprudent. Couple this with the fact that DOT.NET is not a proven nor an Enterprise tested technology with no guarantee that you can write your code on Windows today and tomorrow it will work flawlessly on other than MS platforms, without major code changes, is too huge of a gamble, IMHO. Linux cost are much less than Microsofts and this cannot anywhere be reasonably and rationally denied.

    If I am a Microsoft shop, I am going to have to retrain and retool my developers anyway. I might as well start looking at how I can maximize my IT investments in application programming today and not worry about how my current code base is going to be short-lived. So if I am at this crossroads by necessity, my evaluation would be as follows:

    (1) What programming languages/platforms are going to provide me with the longest shelf life and the most leverage of my existing code base?
    (2) Which OS guarantees me the lowest cost, highest performance, most scalability, and best security and stability?
    (3) What kind of support is available for the system(s) I chose?
    (4) How long must I wait until critical updates that could prove vit

    Oh Uh also, Are u same Josh in ...Sancar Saran -- 04/06/02

    Oh Uh also,
    Are u same Josh in LinuxToday talkbacks ?

    Not to bad Josh. Not to bad,

    Just like a M$ Product.

    Jack Bryar tried to a make a s ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Jack Bryar tried to a make a similar point over at the Linux-centric NewsForge site, this week, and got carpet-bombed with hatemail for his troubles.

    I am the IT Director for a 125 ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    I am the IT Director for a 125 employee shipping firm. In the past year, I have migrated 14 servers from Microsoft products to Linux. Our IT costs for 2000 was estimated at $84,000USD. In 2001, I spent $14,791.23USD. We are now running 100% linux servers, my users have noticed a giant increase in speed and downtime is almost non-existant. I am currently testing 10 users on linux machines. They are EXTREMELY happy with the stability and ease of use. The only two costs incurred in the migration was ONE cd to install, and 4 hours of my time to setup 1 pc and mirror it to the other 9.

    By migrating to linux servers alone, I cut IT staff from five full-time employees to me alone. I work on average 30 hours a week, and run the entire IT department in 8 locations worldwide. I couldn't have done such a great job without linux.

    Long live the penguin.

    Oh, I love it! How much did Mi ...Josh Mehlman -- 04/06/02

    Oh, I love it! How much did Microsoft pay me? How much would YOU pay someone to say you have the social conscience of a uranium mining company executive on a dirty weekend?
    Oh wait, you mean there was something after that guy said something bad about Linux? I didn't read that far!

    >oh I love it!! MS don't ca ...sam -- 04/06/02

    >oh I love it!!

    MS don't care one whit about your namecalling. There nothing anyone could say to reduce Microsoft's reputation in business practices.

    Your cluelesness is incomparable.
    What you're alleged to have been paid for is trying to convince people not to move off MS. What you are alleged to have accepted payment for is trying to FUD a well documented study with 'I heard from some guys at the local pub'. MS has a long and well documented history of paying people
    for this. The term Astroturfing came to IT exclusively because of MS.

    A few things missing in this a ...Sam Varghese -- 04/06/02

    A few things missing in this article:

    The qualifications of these "friends" - are they MCSEs?

    What are the library incompatibilities that you talk about?

    If I were to say that my grandmother's sister's cat can't use Windows but can use Linux, would that be a useful bit of anecdotal evidence in this debate? You seem to be clutching at just such straws to produce your 800 words.

    Slashdot probably ignored the story for the same reason that it ignores virtualy all Austeralian stories - it is US-centric and makes no bones about being so. Read the Slashdot FAQ, please.

    Come back with facts and figures, Mehlman. Tell us about your own bona fides and give us some meat when you try to mount an attack like this. Else, hold your peace.

    Fighting FUD with FUD. I do ag ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Fighting FUD with FUD.

    I do agree with some of your article, For those
    interested in conversion to LINUX, There may be
    some training involved. It basically depends on the individual using the workstation.

    I can also agree that FUD to FUD is not a good choice, given the fact of Linux growth in such a short time frame, I would have thought Mud Slinging could have been done away with. But such is life. I can tell as a department head, I
    am converting an entire facility to Linux.

    What seems to me to be the most Important Issue
    however is not the Fight for the best operating system, even though I'll never go back to Win-What ?. The Issue is the right to CHOICE, something Microsoft seems Hell bent on preventing.

    So yes FUD to FUD isn't really a good Idea, But
    choice IS.

    Some friends told me Josh wear ...Sam -- 04/06/02

    Some friends told me Josh wears women's underwear.
    By Josh's own logic that must be true.

    If anyone is following my posts, I apologize for posting so much. I've never posted so much about one story. The obtuse, ignorant BS in this piece just felt like a large boil that you have no choice but to sit on.

    Where did this person learn any rules of logic?
    More accurately, how did he manage to absolutely fail to learn them?

    Anyway, my last post on this. This guy joins Fred Moody as another ... individual who I've learned to avoid for anything substantive.

    IT isn't true that Josh wears ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    IT isn't true that Josh wears womens underwear. Nor has he ever been paid by Mircosoft. In fact he hardly ever gets paid as it were. :)

    Hey Sam, which part of an &quo ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Hey Sam,

    which part of an "opinion column" don't you understand? Josh doesn't have to agree with you, and I don't believe that childish name-calling tactics are change his mind but maybe I'm wrong, because you see I have that right as well. Not only have you missed the whole point of the article, but you are simply adding to my opinion that Linux's standing in the industry is constantly undermined by the actions and words of narrow-minded zealots like yourself. There isn't one savior operating system for everyone, and anyone who has worked for any period of time in the industry knows this. Why do you think application servers and frameworks for integration like J2EE and .NET are so popular these days? Go learn some social skills, then go get a real job.

    I challenge the author of this ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    I challenge the author of this article to find a document that's easily referencable and verifiable via the internet, that SHOWS the discounts you get via volume discounting. we ALL KNOW you CAN get them. show us numbers that show that you DO get them, and how much they save.

    the only reason the TCO document listed was not able to use these numbers was because they couldn't be found for reference.

    we made every effort to find the correct numbers. (yes, i work for the company that made the document. no i didn't write the document, i only saw it after it had been published).

    Valid points. Unlike many oth ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Valid points. Unlike many other responding here, I too roll my eyes at the various TOC "studies". The bias sets in early in most of them and, strangely, none of these studies ever provide comparable solutions.

    Case in point, Microsoft Exchange (a groupware product) provides more functionality than does sendmail (and RFC-compliant MTA). Photoshop provides CMYK support, which is necessary for print media, while the gimp does not.

    I would expect a well-grounded and open-minded TOC study to end up with a heterogeneous solution in order to meet the needs of any sizeable company. Who knows -- we might even see Macs in the final mix. :-)

    Now, how's this for a FUD spre ...Anonymous -- 04/06/02

    Now, how's this for a FUD spreading article? :))

    Telling your readers about friends of yours and their "horrible stories", talking about hidden
    costs wihout showing where they are (hmm.. they must be very good at hiding, those costs...),
    whining about "productivity loss" due to the need
    to learn a new user interface (yeah, sure! GREAT hurdle indeed!), and speaking about need for
    looking for obscure references in french linux
    groups in order to be able to configure a linux
    system... at best it's laughable!

    Some of your points sound good, but the way you
    present them is most definately NOT. It's a shame
    ZD Net publishes articles like this one.

    Alex.

    Josh,Josh, Josh. I read the Cy ...Dean R. Pannell -- 05/06/02

    Josh,Josh, Josh.

    I read the CyberSource report when it came out. I also scratched my head over the software cost element, but that was about it.

    Some companies can't put users on Linux. If you're a CAD shop, you are SOL. If you do graphics that are intended for print, you're likely to be unhappy.

    However, lots of other businesses can save a bundle, even if you consider re-training costs, which tend to be horribly overblown.

    Re-training for end users is a much smaller problem than people pretend to think. People move from one graphical interface to another and are comfortable within a day. Secretaries can be productive in StarOffice within minutes, proficient within days.

    But -- that's not even the real point. The most painful part of re-training is a one-time expense. Once you're there, you have a staff of Linux-trained people. New people to you organization always need training in the way you do things, anyway. What they will learn is the way you do things with Linux.

    Oh -- and there's one little training cost that people leave out, but that I have seen firsthand. I call it "Cubicle Trak". It's the phenomenon that you will see in any organization that relies on Microsoft Office, thanks to its inconsistencies and bugs. It's the "Y'know, I think John ran into that same thing last week, let's go down and see how he got past it." kind of training. I sometimes wish companies could attach pedometers to their workers to capture how much money is spent and time is wasted because workers are going to each other trying to find workarounds to Office bugs.

    This writers has been brainwas ...Anonymous -- 05/06/02

    This writers has been brainwashed by the fat client Microsoft world, like so many others. I've converted sites over from MSWIN to Linux - using X Windows XDMCP. Instead of sites of 50PCs + N Servers, I now manage sites of just N servers, that's 50 less hosts/site!! That's 50 times less work. The dumbest thing to do would be to try run linux just like MSWIN - one fat host on every users desk. It couldn't have been any easier, www.ltsp.org provides simple reliable packages and info.

    What a terrible article. It r ...Anonymous -- 05/06/02

    What a terrible article. It reads more like a stream of consciousness-slam-poetry-screed than a well thought out argument.

    First, we have the character assassination of Con Zymaris. ZDNET.au would be wise to take him up on his offer to write a column for free, as his writing in his response to this article seems much more lucid, better laid out, and factually based than the article it replies to. Oddly, while trying to make him and cybersource look partial, you mention nothing that really makes them seem partial. They consult on Linux, Unix AND WINDOWS. Con offered to write a column for free. I fail to see the connection to partiality there.

    Then you argue that the study says that "all other things being equal" Linux costs less. Well, the report's purpose is to point out the startup costs of using Linux versus Windows. Plus, many companies may find that "all other things are equal" if they are looking at either a) A BSA audit that could result in a million dollar fine, or b) upgrading a bunch of outdated boxes running Windows 95/98 that can't handle WinXP or 2K now that Microsoft has decided for you that Windows 95 will no longer be supported.

    Licensing costs for Windows are soon to be "ongoing" if Microsoft gets their way with with their licensing model. You'll rent your software each year, and what you'll pay will be decided by Microsoft. That's an ongoing cost. Recurring costs make TCO stay high, since you can't ever get rid of them.

    Training, the first "Linux Boogie Man" you throw up, is the least of most company's concerns. Companies train employees all the time. New software comes out for Windows, you train for it. New software comes out for Linux, you train for it. Most modern software is so damned simple that "training" consists of reading the manual and asking your cubicle neighbor how to do X.

    Star Office is so much like MS Office, and the Gimp is so much like Photoshop, that only the most clueless of users (you know, like tech reporters that can't write articles with valid, coherent arguments) would need training. Need to change the font of a paragraph, drag-select it, then select the drop down for your new font and size. It could take seconds for joe user to figure that one out.

    As for the incompatibilities of Office versus other packages, first, why is it the "other packages" fault they can't read MSOffice's UNDOCUMENTED format? Secondly, if they already have MSOffice, then you just install it under Wine and be done with it. Cripes. Just use office if you really have to use it. They'd already own it right?

    As for replacing Windows Servers with Linux, it's easy peasy for about 90% of those tasks. Samba, Apache, Postgresql and Sendmail just work. Seriously, I can build a SINGLE Linux box to handle 250 users with all that on board by just installing RedHat 7.3 and configuring it in an afternoon. Gimme a couple days to load test it and make sure the hardware's stable and it's ready for production. And it won't spontaneously reboot when you least expect it (i.e. under max load.)

    Most companies have whole teams to support Windows Servers, and mostly they spend their time scratching their heads for a day or two until they just reinstall the OS because no one, including Microsoft, can figure out what went wrong. Or trying shotgun methods (i.e. reinstall packages, set odd registry settings, so on and so on.)

    I've never had that happen to any flavor of Unix, ever. If you can't figure out what's broken on a Unix box, you're not qualified to sysadmin it. With Windows, not being able to fix a broken box is so common that many companies keep whole images of their Windows machine's hard drives ready for quick installation. When somone makes an image of a Linux box it's generally so that they can install it over and over on multiple machines.

    Building Linux boxes is WAY easier than Windows, as anyone who's done both (like myself and many other IT pros) can tell you. Main

    I switched to SuSe Linux about ...Anonymous -- 07/06/02

    I switched to SuSe Linux about a year ago. My experience is summarized as follows:

    1) No more reboots or crashes, really none!
    2) Machine seems to run faster.
    3) Cost me almost nothing for lots of great software.
    4) Much less frustrating than ANY MS OS.
    5) Computing is fun again.
    6) All my neighbors are switching because of me.

    Doug P

    I'm pretty surprised at the ta ...Andrew D -- 09/06/02

    I'm pretty surprised at the tack taken in this op-ed piece about training specifically.

    I've been using OpenOffice since 1.0 came out and I've actually uninstalled Office from my Windows box to put it on there. My wife saw it and liked it and she's not any kind of computer tech and Office is gone from her PC too. (Bit annoying about the money *wasted* on MSOffice but at least no more good money will go after the bad already spent...)

    I've looked at a heap of the linux desktop/window managers recently trying to see if the system as a whole has gotten to a "Joe Bloggs Home User" level yet and I don't think it has (going to command line to ./configure, make, make install an app when you want to just install it? Where is the reliable tarball compiler/installer that deals with dependancies?) but I *do* think it is an ideal package for a corporate environment. Lock down the system so users can't screw around, no more Outlook Virus Conduit and in KDE there is - imo - an almost completely transparent path for a Windows user to follow. Retraining? What retraining?

    For an office worker who needs to type some documents and do some spreadsheets and do their email (and browse a little on the side maybe ;)) there is no retraining required and lets face it, that is the single largest group of computer users in business. As to "Office compatibility", don't make me laugh. Office isn't even compatible with Office.

    "Leave aside that the stu ...Scott Middleton -- 11/06/02

    "Leave aside that the study doesn't even consider support contracts, and claims Linux is not vulnerable to viruses."

    How can you survey viruses on the Linux platform when their aren't any? Now come on you might not like Linux but be fair.

    "Sure, the savings on licences would be enormous, but what of the productivity losses in retraining all the staff to use an unfamiliar interface and applications?"

    Look a simple upgrade from Windows 2000 to Windows XP would require a retraining. Why would a switch from Windows to Linux be any different? Come on be pratical.

    "Does the study assume everyone in the organisation could make the transition with no training, without ever having to call helpdesk or read a help file?"

    How did your transistion from Windows 2000 to XP go? I know the very first thing I did on an XP system was look for the help file and I was using Windows 98 SE and know it backwards. In fact I couldn't find any of the programs I was used to and the one's that were there were completely different.

    "It doesn't take into account, for example, how much more time IT staff would have to spend installing, configuring, maintaining, and integrating all this software using Linux."

    This would be done by professionals people who know what they are doing. It wouldn't take that long it couldn't take any longer than a Windows system would anway. At least Linux is secure out of the box you don't need to install third party products to make it secure.

    "Given there are only so many hours in a year, if the same number of staff are expected to maintain the same sized organisation, they'll either be working much longer hours, or the company will have to hire more staff. Staff who are overworked are more likely to leave, thus there's the enormous expense of recruiting replacements."

    And as if there was no organisation that had employees resistant to change or leaving every 6 or so months for a better job?

    This comment about support and ...Anonymous -- 07/06/05

    This comment about support and retraining costs was by and large rubbish.

    I have ported our business from Windows to LINUX with negligable end-user cost. Modern desktop operating systems are so close to each other that the learning curve is near negligable.

    With respect to the applications themselves, power users might feel a learning-curve, (most company's have few to none of them unless of great size), most day to day users however learn the new applications in no time flat, since all the basics are usually durn near identical.

    There is a SHORT-TERM cost that being the traning of in-house IT staff in order to perform routine admnistration and diagnose the rare failings.

    This is cost is a drop in the ocean compared with the constant cost of upgrading, maintaining and patching the M***ft (<= no I don't want to be sued) environment with its unstable inefficient operating system, it unstable inefficient appliation and generally poor support even when you do pay for it.

    Having gotten over this rather small short term cost, you are then free from the constant barrage of upgrade costs, hardware upgrades due to the inefficiencies etc etc.

    I have a six year old PIII running at a meagre 400Mhz and running linux outperforming a brand-new Pentium IV (3.6Ghz) with twice the memory (1Gb) and size running win XP. The slower hardware outpeforms the faster machine by a factor of 4.

    In other words XP is performing more slowly (in real terms) by a factor of 36. TCO is the exact reason people are moving away from the commericial player beginning with M... the savings on initial licenses costs pale into insignificance compare with the cost savings LINUX and open source deliver in terms in improved reliablility, greater consistancy, and greater richness of available applications, combined with the complete lack of need for the various utilities one requies to cope the the inadequacies of the world's most common commercial operating system.

    The TCO savings would be even greater if most vendors did not insist on forcing us to by substandard commercial operating systems with out computers. And Yes DELL I am talking to you (amongst others).

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