A lesson in logic



COMMENTARY--Fundamentalists are people who can't tolerate the idea that there are legitimate points of view other than their own. Publish something negative about Linux, and you'll soon find out what I mean.

"It is a feature of strongly held dogmas that they steadfastly resist not only unpalatable truths but even the faintest suggestion of the barest possibility of the most tangential reference to an unacceptable fact. Better that men should die and cities be overrun than that the sacred teaching should be found wanting."--Norman Dixon, On the Psychology of Military Incompetence.

From the responses to last month's patch management column, I learned a lot about people's attitudes to patches--and was repeatedly reminded of several other points. For the record, it's true that Linux patches only apply to one application at a time whereas Windows patches update numerous programs simultaneously. Does this mean a Linux patch could still screw things up? Definitely, but you'd never hear a Linux person admit it.

The problem with discussing an issue like this: anyone writing negatively about Linux is immediately bombarded with supercilious invective--plus a good dose of righteous indignation and withering sarcasm--from Linux supporters.

The flame mails and Web site posts my colleagues and I receive have in common--as well as the tone--a catalogue of trite and formulaic tactics. Here are some of the most popular elements:

  • Insinuating journalist is on Microsoft payroll. It appears Microsoft has nothing better to do than spend its money bribing journalists to write bad things about Linux. Obviously there are no bad things about Linux and journalists could not possibly come to think otherwise without being paid off.

  • Use of "Micro$oft" or "M$". This is not only a very clever pun, but also devastating social commentary. How intelligent and original!

  • Faulty logic and appeals to higher authorities. For example, a post on the luv.asn.au mailing list about my last column referred to an article by well-known Linux fascist Andrew Grygus, whom the author referred to as "an extremely experienced IT consultant". The fact that Grygus is a veteran Windows basher and Linux fanatic is irrelevant, of course. The logic seems to be, if Grygus says it's so, then Mehlman must be wrong, QED--Grygus knows The Truth.

  • Technical arguments that are false, outdated or based on generalisations. In the article referred to, Microsoft Hides Behind Linux, Grygus claims "Many experts [such as himself, perhaps?] consider [Windows] too broken to fix, ever." He argues, for example, "If something goes wrong, Microsoft provides no way to back the patch out, you have to completely reinstall Windows."

    This is taken as gospel in the Linux community and is true, to an extent, in Windows 98 or NT 4.0. In Windows 2000 or later, there are facilities to go back, such as the System Restore function, and most patches can be uninstalled. To be fair, under some circumstances this doesn't work, but to claim it never works is--quite simply--a lie. Either Grygus hasn't used Windows in the last five years, or he's willing to tell porkies in order to prove his point. Either way, deferring to his expertise as a consultant is a bit rich.

    The Linux fanatic will then claim that by contrast, Linux suffers from none of these problems due to its inherently better design and moral superiority.

  • Lectures on unbiased journalism. It seems the average Linux HaX0R knows more about journalism than any IT journalist who dares to criticise Linux. Apparently the True Purpose of IT journalism is to promote Linux, because it's better than Windows.

  • Personal abuse. And of course, since the journalist can't see The Truth about Linux, the journalist must be stupid, not know how to use a computer, not understand logic (ha!), and be slightly less popular than genital herpes.

All this explains why I found the quote I used at the beginning delightfully appropriate. As long as Linux proponents are so insecure that they constantly need to reinforce to themselves and everyone else that The Truth is out there, and starts with an L, Linux will lose the propaganda war.

Josh Mehlman is acting editor of Technology & Business.

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Talkback 44 comments

    Hey, if you are writing storie ...Anonymous -- 03/10/03

    Hey, if you are writing stories in support of a bloated corrupt corporate giant and say mostly good things about them plan on being bashed. (Try doing political stories about President Bush and constantly say mostly good things and see what happens). People will wonder about your objectivity.

    If you base your stories on any published materials from Microsoft or a study Microsoft may have even so remotely funded, people will wonder about your intelligence and integrity.

    If you are writing stories based on your inability to take the slams from people that like Linux, remember that everyday these people suffer the same from Microsoft and Microsoft's lovers. Hey, Microsoft has made it a personal thing.

    About Micro$oft, in 1996 I realized that Mirco$oft's sales and business paradigm was not going to work for the long run. I told my boss that Linux and open sources was the wave of the future. Note: I worked in the software industry. As I saw it at the time, I believed that Micro$oft probably knew this and intended to rape their customers for every last nickel and dime for as long as it lasted. This in my opinion was what Apple's plan was in the early 80's, good product, way overpriced.

    The bottom line for Micro$oft has always been $. Somewhere up from the bottom was a good reliable product. I use "Micro$oft" to remind myself of this and to keep my goal in mind.

    My goal is an operating system that people in the poorest countries can afford, that they can extend without "$" paying lots for it, that will allow them to develop skills that can be used at home and abroad and will allow them to cheaply connect to the internet.

    Micro$oft doesn't fit the bill but only can increase the bill.

    Logic

    Why, Oh, Why, must everyone ha ...Anonymous -- 03/10/03

    Why, Oh, Why, must everyone have someone to dump on ?
    Fundamentalist or not, I think the only reason people have to find fault in others (whether it religons, cars, or O/S's) is because they feel threatened.

    Microsoft and the open source movment may campagn against each other but at the end of the day does either actually stop you from using your preferred platform (or both) ???

    The world is big enough for all of us so why not just live and let live so we can all concentrate on making money (which after all, the OSS movement need to do to fund their labour of love, right ) ???

    Balance children, balance. Com ...max doc -- 04/10/03

    Balance children, balance. Communicate, debate , respect different opinions or don't expect to be respected. That's all the story was about. Intollerance and insecurity on display is not pretty. In this display the IT journo wins and you look REAL bad. Want to play? Learn some rules of conduct or go back to your playpen and sulk.

    Im a linux user. I like java. ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    Im a linux user. I like java. I like objective-c. But do I announce it here in Manila like a preacher? I dont because I get insults from the windows programmers who thinks that windows is the best OS in the world, that java is obsolete and objective-c is not a programming language. They want to see windows on their phones on their settop boxes and play games on xbox. To them palm is obsolete because it does not have an office suite and mobile 2003 is the future.And linux just cant be good because it is free.

    Well i dont mind. I am earning money from linux and knows how to program because i got a free compiler which i think is much better than the free 16 bit compiler for dos that we use in school.

    If you use windows go ahead. Im not because i cant afford it and i cant fix it and customize it at all. I also cant make money out of it because the license is too expensive that i cant compete on price against other products from bigger companies who can afford the license. When my friends ask me if they should migrate to linux? I tell them no. I tell them to upgrade to the latest windows release. They will find it cheaper than trying to use Red Hat Linux and go back to windows because its too complicated to setup and vulnerable to attacks.

    It's not so strange, really. ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    It's not so strange, really. People get in brawls over sporting events, too... they rant and rave about a ref making an unfavorable call. They argue about which team is better.
    Linux just happens to have some folks who feel very passionately about it and don't react well to people putting it down in any way.

    It's like going to a football game, making your way to middle of the most ardent supporters of one team... and start critiquing their favorite players... you'll most likely find yourself getting drenched with the occasional beer... with a few names being called just for good measure.

    Much the same concept.

    -JH

    It is well known that journali ...None K. None -- 04/10/03

    It is well known that journalists in general are whores that sell themselves to whoever is their master at any given time.

    I have some comment on a coupl ...Ka-Hing Cheung -- 04/10/03

    I have some comment on a couple points that you have made:
    1) Use of M$: This is by no mean a description of Linux users. Many people who I know never used Linux uses M$ to describe Microsoft. It's also possible for you to be laughed at when you use M$ in front of some Linux users for being immature.
    2) Regarding patches: System Restore isn't really a way to back out a particular patch, but rather a way to go back to a snapshot of the system. So in this interpretation, Grygus is at least partially correct that there is "no way to back the patch out".
    3) biased journalism: While I doubt that the average Linux user has studied journalism, I also doubt that the average journalist uses Linux. While the average journalist is only exposed to Windows, many Linux users use Linux at home and Windows at work, so the average Linux user may have a more unbiased view on the two Operating Systems.

    For a article entitled "A ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    For a article entitled "A lesson in Logic" a little less sarcasm and vilification of those who who disagree with you might be in order.

    As a journalist, you must get a lot of comments from the public. As one who attempts to throw mud at another OS you obviously know little about and don't care to know anything about, you also must expect to get a rise out of supporters of the opposite point of view.

    For you to object that the volume of the abuse is not to your liking, suggests that you really ought to consider changing your line of business. As the possessor of the "bully pulpit", objecting to the thrown vegetables being hurled at you suggests that you badly misjudged the temper and inclinations of your audience. That doesn't bode well for your future career as an orator.

    To address only one of your points of logic. It's true that any patch can cause problems. That's why any administrator worth his salt will test them before widely applying them. However, the size and complexity of patches for Open Source applications and OS's simply do not compare with the same animal in the Window's world. Microsoft's patches are MUCH more extensive , and therefore, almost expoentially more error prone, than what is called a "patch" in the Open Source world.

    That is because MS, being a commercial concern, cannot afford to offer a patch for every little bug, they have to save up a bunch of changes and fix them all at once. So to compare the VOLUME of patches between the two worlds is highly misleading at best and immediately raises a red flag to every Open Source supporter. In the Open Source community, changes are quickly and immediately addressed and a patch is issued as soon as possible for each and every bug and vulnerabiltiy that is found. Those patches are very small and very specific and aimed at fixing one very specific problem.

    That, by definition, means that any problems they are likely to cause will be limited as well. So the chance that any patch will so be so destructive as to not allow the machine to work at all is very slim. Add in the fact that only major kernel changes even require rebooting, and that almost all patches can be applied whle the OS is running without affecting performance at all, and perhaps you can begin to see why your comments strike most Open Source supporters as utter nonsense.

    I have little hope that I have changed any of your opinions. I only hope that anyone who reads this will realise some of the pitfalls hidden behind such simplistic comparisons as the number of patches issued by each camp.

    By they way, I don't use Linux. I am writing this on a computer running Windows 98SE. I am, however, considering the move, and so I take the trouble to get to know the competition- and so should you.

    Good day,

    Frank Love

    My $0.02 worth: Here's what's ...Joseph Nicholson -- 04/10/03

    My $0.02 worth:

    Here's what's logical to me --
    In the fall of 1998 I made the switch from Windows 98SE to SuSE Linux 5.3, and I haven't looked back. Despite the high learning curve, it was well worth it to me. I learned more about how computer systems operate in 6 short months than I could possiblly have learned from the ground breaking days of Win95 until said time.

    Linux simply WORKS well for me, and for several other people I know.

    THAT is logic.

    Patches smatches. Previous posters have put it very well when comparing the very real and detrimental effects of any Win-based patch versus the much smaller patches for Linux systems.

    Insult to Journelism. Well I t ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    Insult to Journelism.

    Well I thought I had read the worst in a journelists trite of recognition. Have now...

    In a case of "fighting fire with fire" the constant insolence in this behaviour shows nothing other than inordinate vanity with a lust for technical intellectual gluttony.

    I'm sure you can change your Windows wallpaper, pretty up your Windows mouse cursors and hey, maybe file share throughout a Windows network. Disreguarding your multiple talents is an option obviousy justified through your incompetence of reporting a possible major turning point in technological history and opening valid arguments to the oblivious public which includes yourself.

    I think you should come out of that bathroom... you and M$.

    P.S. This is an Australian site with Australian viewers and most persumably Australian comments which you have now downgraded through lack of your own technical expertese.

    I'd have you licking envelopes for a month!

    I have to admit that in genera ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    I have to admit that in general I didn't like this article either (well, who does?).
    But since a journalist is a public person and it's the Linux people who are especially internet aware and thus more vocal on the internet, journalists will receive many emails from the Linux community. And conceivably sometimes also much less than positive mails, unfortunately... (especially if a journalist's article leaves some suspicions to be had).
    Anyway, let's make it clear that I fully support using M$ or Micro$oft (and that's still a rather positive term - one could also easily justify using Mafia$oft or similar...):
    Since Microsoft could be characterized as a money-grubbing blatantly anti-consumer and also anti-competition convicted predatory monopolist, using the M$ term is certainly justified IMHO to keep reminding about this company's continuing problematic practices.

    About patches: while Microsoft HAS made some progress here, I still view Linux's patch management (breakage, amount of time to wait for a fix) as VASTLY superiour, and Microsoft still has to play a LOT of catchup here (last time I visited
    http://www.pivx.com/larholm/unpatched/ (i.e.: right now in order to find out the URL ;), Internet Explorer still had an outrageous number of 31 mostly critical security bugs, with some critical bugs taking as long as a horrible two years to get fixed!!).

    On Microsoft's payroll: well, Microsoft does do FUD campaigns from time to time, so people do suspect such a link sometimes (sometimes wrongly, of course).

    The other points were ok, IMHO, but all in all this still leaves us with a substantial amount of writing in this article that I disagree with.

    In closing, let me say that one should try to view terrible mails by some Linux people in a slightly more moderate way, since it was mostly Microsoft who declared war on us, not the other way around.
    Microsoft's (mis-)deeds simply provoke such actions of the Linux community. And with a broad community, there will always be some substantial part who is more extreme than some other...

    Dear Josh Mehlman (Technology ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    Dear Josh Mehlman (Technology & Business magazine),
    about the Microsoft and Linux way of dealing with patches, I tell you that the argument that a multiple-patching policy is better that a single-patching policy is flawed. You prooved nothing, you just gave out some (unsunstantiated) words. Just to make you an example, a multiple-patch released by Microsoft can fix problems on his stuff alone, but what about third party components, drivers and plugins that are not under control of Micorsoft but that are strongly tied with the rest of the system? Graphic Card Drivers for instance, they live in the kernel space and if Microsoft finds a problem in its code whose fix could affect also the graphic card driver, what can MS do? Nothing, tell it to the vendor and wait for the fix... if the vendor is interested in that support and it is still in business.
    So your argument is weak, for every problem there are one or more suitable solutions, depending on the context each one chooses what suits better the situation and a winning solution on one field could lead to poor results onto another field.

    Journalist Needs Thicker Skin ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    Journalist Needs Thicker Skin

    "For the record, it's true that Linux patches only apply to one application at a time whereas Windows patches update numerous programs simultaneously. Does this mean a Linux patch could still screw things up? Definitely, but you'd never hear a Linux person admit it. "

    I admit it. I'm a Linux person. Are you now going to retract your unjustified insult against all Linux users?

    "The problem with discussing an issue like this: anyone writing negatively about Linux is immediately bombarded with supercilious invective--plus a good dose of righteous indignation and withering sarcasm--from Linux supporters."

    Well if you're writing negative things about Linux then you're hardly likely to get invective and indignation from Linux detractors! They'll be cheering you on.

    "All this explains why I found the quote I used at the beginning delightfully appropriate. As long as Linux proponents are so insecure that they constantly need to reinforce to themselves and everyone else that The Truth is out there, and starts with an L, Linux will lose the propaganda war."

    Well, if you're going to tar us all with the same brush. that says more about you than the Linux proponents. "All Linux users are insecure". "All Linux users are abusive". "All Linux users write M$ instead of Microsoft". Similar vilifications have been happening for years. "All muslims are terrorists". "All politicians are corrupt". "All blondes are stupid". Your world sounds nice and simple but not very logical. A logical person would recognise that those people who speak the loudest (and rudest) are not representatives for the entire community. They're just the cranks. Ignore them. We do.

    Yes it's possible for a patch ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    Yes it's possible for a patch for a piece of software that runs on GNU/Linux to break something.

    Happy? These are operating systems after all, there is no such thing as a completely bug free OS.

    I just get annoyed when people see patches for some free version of a game like Tetris that has the possiblility of a buffer overflow, and assume it's a critical flaw in 'Linux' that will have every sysadmin running to patch their servers.

    In real life, you just keep an eye on exposed apps like apache and openssh, and the rate of patches is pretty lesiurely.

    HO my... please stop to insult ...Michel Galle -- 04/10/03

    HO my...

    please stop to insult ALL linux users.

    it's true I don't TRUST JOURNALIST because I read MANY MANY stupid and TECHNICALS (facts) Mistakes on ZDNET !

    not different opinions, perfectly respectable, but FALSE things.

    I remember , one day linus had not "software setup management" (and RPM ?) an other day linux was bad for to communicate in a windows network (ho ? and I was making the impossible ?)
    an other day zdnet simply repeated the GPL was "anti american" and "anti-economical", I still waiting Redhat and Stallman take over the world...

    the main problem is not Linux or Windows, is ZDNET

    ZDNET is BAD informations , not useful

    you say mostly the same amount of stupidity about any subjects

    sometimes you don't know Java
    sometimes you don't know Windows
    and sometimes it's Linux

    ho, and I'm still laughing when I read some old zdnet articles about Sun...

    zdnet is only repeating some business bias (whatever microsoft, ibm, hp intel , redhat, suse, any big man say )
    and never has some good TECHNICAL knowledge to bring the readers some INSIGHT.

    here is MY opinion
    and I'm NOT fundamentalism

    I used DOS, I used UNIX , I used windows, I now used Linux AND macos X for perfectly SANE reason, and a long processing , a long thoughful interrogation.

    In MY job, sometimes I will put Microsoft Exchange, sometimes it will be Sendmail (yes) , it depends of the needs, of the quality, of my knowledge.

    so, STOP to tell "linux users" are fundamentalism

    you only insult your OWN READERS !

    many people are now using Linux or freeBsd because it's better for them , simply that . think about it , it gives for a minimum price, a very powerful unix-based system, with many tools, with the possibility to IMPROVE (not only the source code, but unix is easy to modify its booting process, some scripts, what services it uses, it's "transparent" )

    and professionnaly, it's true, it's easier to adapt a opensource products to a _specific_ task than the windows products

    but it depends of what we need.
    mostly, people use linux to very professionnal and sane reasons.

    some others, use linux because it's "fun", we don't understand that, but for some, it's fun to "hack", to use it, to watch linux, gnome, kde, bsd, mplayer and others projects improve.

    some others thinks it's politically and SOCIALLY important to keep OPEN the source code of _basics_ software (like the ones which manages internet, network, computers)

    all of that is respectable

    and often, they are perfectly intelligent and sane people

    NOT fundamentalism

    there are some "fundamentalist" which use linux without good reason but "it's cool"
    it's true, there some who believes linux is so perfect there are no problems, and everything else is crap.

    and then ?
    it's not a reason to INSULT everyone.

    Tell WHAT you want about linux or flowers
    but it's very painful to read insult.

    I hope you will understand that.

    >All this explains why I fo ...Anonymous -- 04/10/03

    >All this explains why I found the quote I used at the beginning
    >delightfully appropriate. As long as Linux proponents are so insecure
    >that they constantly need to reinforce to themselves and everyone else
    >that The Truth is out there, and starts with an L, Linux will lose the
    >propaganda war.
    >
    >
    Sorry. Linux "proponents" as you so ignorantly slander them have never asked for the so-called "help" from moronic idiots like you. Get over yourself. The Linux community has thrived over the past 12 years without the "support" of worthless clowns like you, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.

    In other words, sod off.

    PS. The Truth is out there and will eventually surface. Just as Bush and Blair are to their utter horror now discovering.

    If you can't take these critic ...Anonymous -- 05/10/03

    If you can't take these criticisms (bashing as you call it) i guess you better stop writing about anything not just Linux.

    Linux and its army of developers have had their criticism and worst than you may ever imagined but they're able to carry on.

    You say they are whining but look at you, are you not?

    You say they are fanatics, are you not?

    You think they are wrong, are you not?

    We all are because we're free to do and think:)

    There, the post by Byran Lee a ...Abe -- 05/10/03

    There, the post by Byran Lee along with all others summed it up for you and I certainly agree with all of them including Byran's.

    You see, the Linux community/proponents is very diverse. It consists of the technical, the intellectual, the good, the bad, and the ugly. The smart one, the limitted one, and certainly the harsh one.

    Responses to articles depend on the contents and on how each individual reacts to them. To generalize like you did was total ignorance and show of idiocy. Like one poster said, you probably are better off changing careers unless you are intentionally saying what you did for financial compensations by you know who (M$).

    Linux proponents beleive in the Open Software concept. We beleive in the GPL. And we defend it, each in his own way, so we cover all the bases. You see, there are the good reporters, the bad ones, the intelectual ones, the liers, the stupid, and the ignorant ones.

    Linux, just like the Universe, was designed and created to expand and evolve but always for the better.

    Your logic works by the same p ...Collins Richey -- 05/10/03

    Your logic works by the same principles you claim to despise: post something negative (or informative) about M$ (yes, this is a commonly used and appropriate symbol), and you are immediately a Linux biggot (as opposed to afficiondado). Since M$ is the biggest $$$ in commercial software and since increasing $$$ in M$ contracts is considered a problem by many businesses, this moniker is entirely appropriate. Using the moniker "well-known Linux fascist' (not well-known to me, but that's beside the point) would imply that the referenced authority (QED) couldn't possibly know what he is talking about, in your own words this journalist can't see the Truth about M$ and must be stupid. What's the difference between your personal abuse of the wll-know Linux fascist and his abuse of your opinions?

    Clean up your own logic first.

    Just to get a little fact righ ...Christophe Thill -- 05/10/03

    Just to get a little fact right: I don't know if A. Grygius is a "Linux fascist". To me he just sounds as a technically competent person who know about what he writes. But, although he's a Linux supporter, it's also clear that his favourite systems are actually OS/2 and BSD.

    When reading the article " ...Denney Abraham -- 05/10/03

    When reading the article "Patchy coverage" I got the impression that Mr. Mehlman gets really annoyed with certain statments in the article written by "columnist Sam Varghese at the Fairfax newspapers". And he responds in kind! Tsk, tsk, Mr. Mehlman! Where is your journalistic objectivity? When a columnist makes a comment you do not like, you are not supposed to villify and insult that person and pooh-pooh what they wrote. Defend yourself like a gentleman! Present valid points and arguments, and move on. After all, Mr. Sam Varghese did not go insulting you and your writings. Shame on You!!

    Then comes the issue of Linux vs. Windows. It is interesting that you chose to compare Windows and Linux on a matter you clearly do not understand - patches. It is important to understand your subject matter thouroughly before critiquing it. C'mon, Mr. Mehlman, you know better than to print out an article containing 'facts' which when thought through diligently, will fall apart. Case in point: "When new patches come out every other day, as they do with Linux, you can imagine the nightmares this could cause." Any journalist who did some reasearch (talked to a real Linux SysAdmin) would never have made that statement because he would have understood the point that Linux does not have patched every other day! Several third party applications which run on Linux might have patches coming out regularly, but those patches do not need to be put into the system; those patches have nothing whatsoever to do with Linux itself. As I stated already, Mr.Mehlman, you clearly did not do your homework.

    I hope your future articles contain facts which are more researched and valid.

    Have you ever actually used Li ...Mike Johnson -- 05/10/03

    Have you ever actually used Linux, I wonder.

    If you had -- and I mean, really switched over, you might come to realize that there is an incredible amount of uninformed press out there. Maybe you have and a few people overreacted, but I strongly doubt you've ever set up a Linux server, for example.

    I doubt you have much history applying patches to a Linux box.

    For that matter, I doubt very much if you've ever patched a Windows machine just to see it fail.

    I don't really mean to make this personal. My only point is that there are a great number of journalists out there that feel perfectly qualified to give the view from the trenches, or the top-level overview of the Windows and Linux comparison, and yet those same writers have never actually used either in the environments they speak of.

    You may argue that it's not a journalists job to actually experience the battle, to fire the guns, but to collect impressions from the soldiers. That may be, but you must realize that leaves you open to manipulation. How can you be sure you're getting the story straight? Are you interviewing enough from both camps?

    If some people were harsh to you, it is simply because the suspected you didn't have your own experience to draw from or that you were (knowingly or unknowingly) manipulated. Oh, and they obviously disagreed as well. Maybe in the future you can pay a little more attention to what they're saying -- these are soldiers with impressions of they're own, after all. And they're saying you've gotten the battle all wrong.

    Well-known Linux fascist? Hey, ...Andrew Grygus -- 05/10/03

    Well-known Linux fascist? Hey, Dude, we run OS/2 here - and have no plans to change because it still does what we need very well- with total reliability and no worms.

    I always appreciate valid corrections to my articles, and I will change that part about not being able to uninstall patches to reflect you're pointing out that it sometimes works.

    I still think a prudent administrator will reinstall after a patch screwed up the system to avoid the possibility of finding something didn't restore properly during month-end closing (which is when those things generally crop up).

    I haven't used Windows for 5 years? Well, that's true, I don't use Windows except for testing. The majority of my time is spent installing Windows and getting Windows to work again on computers it worked on yesterday, and cleaning out adware, spyware, trojans and worms. I don't have time left to actually use it.

    My clients are still about 80% all-Windows shops, running every version from 3.1 through XP (no 2003 yet), so I get to do a lot of fixing.

    System Restore? I hear it does sometimes work (except on Windows Me), but I get to see mostly the ones where it didn't work.

    Linux? I love it on servers - I've had clients actually forget they even had a server. I certainly look forward to the day when a lot more of my clients are using Linux on the desktop - then I can get get back to worthwhile work instead fixing Windows all day.

    So you got some flaming emails ...Anonymous -- 05/10/03

    So you got some flaming emails, big deal. You didn't mention if you also received polite, well-reasoned responses, which I suspect you did. Anyway there is plenty to criticize about Linux, but you picked the wrong topic, even Microsoft is recognizing there is a problem:

    "Microsoft moves beyond patches"
    http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5085251.html

    Anyone who administers Linux AND Windows machines knows which one is easier to patch, and believe me if there is a Linux patch that "screws things up" you'll hear about it.

    He's right, our community need ...Anonymous -- 05/10/03

    He's right, our community needs to grow up.

    Recently, I've seen a number of traditional media publications on the internet community in general, FLOSS in particular, and we are always shown as a bunch of belittling know-it-all fanatics. Now this might prove impressive on slashdot or IRC, but in real life it'll only work against us in the long run. Respect thy neighbour and he might respect you...

    I consider myself a 'linux per ...Anonymous -- 05/10/03

    I consider myself a 'linux person', I use linux wherever I feel that I can efficiently and I promote it's use within my "close network".

    I accept there are problems [heck, I could write a book on the things I dislike about linux] - but I've never writen to journalists/anyone else with my opinions... what they choose to write is entirely up to them. [btw. I have no time at all for anyone that does write the things you complain about - they accomplish nothing, and do damage to the good arguments for linux].

    But, this article is crazy...

    The fanatics: "all journalists are paid by MS to print lies"

    The author's response? "all linux proponents are rabid fanatics that refuse to accept any negatives" [please re-read your article if you are unsure as to why I say this].

    If it is unfair for the fanatics to immediately consider all journalists "guns for hire", then surely it is unfair for journalists to consider all "linux people" as "fanatics/unable to accept criticism"... [unless you honestly believe that 'all linux people are unable to accept flaws" as your article states? In which case - "pot meet kettle"].

    um I have a computer, i think ...Ralph Hudson -- 05/10/03

    um I have a computer, i think it has a operating system as it operates.it has one place it shows the name linux so i was wondering if it is a linux system. it has a place where i click to do a update,has not had any thing come up now in several weeks maybe 10 weeks now. maybe my patcher needs patching. i got another computer that said it had a system called windows 98 on it and it keeps shutting down for no reason and losing all my photos and jokes. so i use this one now, it has not done that yet. so i guess it is better.it did not do this untill i did a up date as microsoft recomended. did I do somethng wrong.

    I sure would like to be able to use my other computer had a lot of my e-mail addresses on it.

    1. Grow up! If you can't tak ...Phillip Soltan -- 05/10/03

    1. Grow up! If you can't take a few nasty emails then I suggest finding another job.

    2. What I, and hopefully most people, know about journalists is that they know how to spell and create readable articles. What journalists for technical journals sometimes DON'T know is much about technology. If people start criticizing you're grammar then feel free to blow them off. If they criticize what you are writing about then take a minute to see if you've missed something by either not talking to a wide enough range of people or by not taking the time to ACTUALLY undestand what you're talking about.

    Well you said you were going t ...Doug Walters -- 05/10/03

    Well you said you were going to get blasted and you did. I use Windows 2000 which Microsoft stole from os2. I also use Suse Linux 8.2. Which is better? I love both. 2000 is stable and well built. Suse Linux is even more stable and well built. Next I am going to try Mandrake Linux. I used to have Redhat but that was the worst piece of crap I have ever tried. I almost gave up on Linux but I decided to give Suse a try. Glad I did.

    All right, a Linux patch can s ...Anonymous -- 06/10/03

    All right, a Linux patch can screw things up. I'm a Linux user and advocate, so I suppose it's incumbent on me to admit that. Mixing applications compiled for different library versions is a good way to do that. There's actually a good deal of discussion on the Debian mailing lists about how to manage that sort of thing. It's also possible for a customized configuration file to be overwritten during a package update, and while Debian is particularly good about respecting customization, I did run into one instance of an overwrite and had to restore the file from a floppy.

    Lazy, inaccurate "journal ...Anonymous -- 06/10/03

    Lazy, inaccurate "journalists" deserve withering scorn. Much of what passes for "tech news" is little more than warmed-over press releases, and token quotes from whatever little stable of "experts" a particular "reporter" has at hand. Until you decide to do some real reporting, and real journalism, you're going to receive criticism. You don't want to do this, anyway- you're after clicks at any cost. Accuracy, facts- feh, who needs these. Better to get people angry. Then you get more clicks.

    This e-mail is in response to ...Anonymous -- 06/10/03

    This e-mail is in response to your article a 'Lesson in Logic'.

    While in the various 'IT Wars' over the years there have always been extreme comments published and sent by many people, your article fails to mention that this actually happens on all sides. Your article could more than equally apply to some of the - shall we say dubious - material and articles that has come out of Redmond and its many advocates over the years. I thought you were talking about Microsoft and the people who write their many reports! The only way to get around this is to forget about Linux and Windows and look plainly at what people are saying or writing. This you have failed to do.

    When I use the name Linux or 'Linux-based' this could equally apply to many 'Unix-like' systems such as Solaris, BSD etc. It is not limited to 'Linux'.

    "Does this mean a Linux patch could still screw things up?"

    Yes it does. Is that good enough for you? Sometimes when you update a package it doesn't always work immediately as certain configuration files need to be moved around, dependencies satisfied etc. - but the point is I CAN GET IT WORKING because I know or can find out what is involved.

    It is much less likely to screw things than on a Windows system. Why? Because a Linux-based system consists of many different pieces of independent software produced by many different projects it has to be truly modular. This ensures that a patch made to one piece of software applies only to that software. If anything adverse happens you can track it down without affecting or reinstalling every other bit of the system. In a Windows system this is not the case. You simply have to rely on Microsoft's 'tools'. There are many components and bits of functionality that are linked together and bypassed like a Christmas tree. Look at the nature some of the security exploits within Windows. The MS Blaster worm was able to get around the whole Windows permissions system to get System level access within a few lines of code - it's that easy. This just cannot happen in the same way on a Linux, BSD, Solaris, AIX or a Mac system. To get 'root' access an exploit needs to find some software running that it can attack and exploit. If it isn't running or it is different it can't. It is much harder on a non-Windows system - not just Linux.

    Remember, many 'Linux advocates' are 'Unix admins' and also administer large networks of computers which also number large amounts of Windows machines. When was the last time you patched several hundred or thousand Windows desktops? Tell us. If you haven't, or haven't at least went out 'into the field' to see first-hand then you are not qualified to talk on these kinds of issues. Have you?

    "Insinuating journalist is on Microsoft payroll. It appears Microsoft has nothing better to do than spend its money bribing journalists to write bad things about Linux."

    If you've read some of the many 'reports' that have come out - the Gartner Linux Desktop one being prominent - and the many strange postings to mailing lists etc. on the internet supporting Microsoft products without saying why, people have a right to be suspicious. It is a well documented fact that Microsoft has encouraged its employees over many years to post favourable postings etc. about Microsoft software. You can spot them fairly immediately.

    Given that Microsoft really sees Linux and free software as a massive fundamental threat to their business they are actively commissioning many reports and articles that are of highly dubious quality. If you aren't aware of this then you are a bit naive to be an IT journalist. You should go out and read some of these 'reports' use your logic as an IT person and make a judgement on them. Report back and tell us what you think.

    Can you prove to people that you are not on the payroll of Microsoft? Look at the Windows Server 2003 advertisement now on your article's page :). Could this be because Microsoft think they may be able to sway some of

    > Insinuating journalist is ...Peter Yellman -- 06/10/03

    > Insinuating journalist is on Microsoft payroll.

    Dear Mr. Mehlman, young grasshopper, I regret that it has taken so long for someone to bring to your attention the well known and documented fact that Microsoft is notorious for secretly funding research reports, essays by so-called "journalists", false "grass-roots" campaigns, and the like. Quite a number of examples of these tactics have come to light, and a sensible person would conclude that those that have been exposed are only a fraction of total. I would be glad to do your research for you and deliver to you links to the requisite information, if you would only make a public request for assistance on this forum.

    It is unfortunate but understandably true that these strategies by Microsoft to abuse the public trust, and the willingness of certain so-called journalists, market research firms, and nominally unbiased publications to make themselves tools in this effort in return for monetary compensation has created an atmosphere of suspicion in regard to the essays of self-appointed experts such as yourself. You do not help to dispel this suspicion when you engage in the very same rude and obnoxious behaviors you attribute to certain members of the linux "community", or when your essays demonstrate such shallow and trivializing grasp of the subject matter at hand.

    Sincerely,
    Peter Yellman

    zdnet is going down hill when ...Anonymous -- 06/10/03

    zdnet is going down hill when they actually publish articles like this? take it to the play ground... please

    You have it all! This is surel ...Anonymous -- 06/10/03

    You have it all! This is surely the first time you got it rigth, but it's never too late to realise that you were wrong all this time.

    Now you just have to appologize and maybe we could be friends. :)

    By the way, this is the kind of "text" which should not exist because it does not bring anything the whole. Don't be surprised if you receive e-mails!

    > Fundamentalists are peopl ...Anonymous -- 06/10/03

    > Fundamentalists are people who can't tolerate
    > the idea that there are legitimate points of
    > view other than their own.

    First sentence and you're already wrong. And worse, you've got me on my soapbox.....

    "Fundamentalist" is a word without much meaning in itself. A fundamentalist Muslim and a fundamentalist Christian are two entirely different things. In fact, a fundamentalist Christian describes a movement with a direct historical context and meaning, referring to the "fundamentals" of the Christian faith. It arose out of a series of books in the early 1900's which sought to define the fundamentals of the Christian faith. It was never in contrast to modern civilization, but opposed to a religious movement which called itself "modernism" that sought to redefine the Christian faith to remove or redefine such old-fashioned ideas as sin, redemption, resurrection, miracles, and the supernatural. Fundamentalism took the position that some doctrines were so fundamental to the Christian faith that you couldn't change them and still have any kind of faith called Christianity.

    In contrast, a fundamentalist Moslem (very) generally is one who sees America as the "Great Satan", believes modern civilization is corrupting to the Muslim world, practices terrorism and suicide bombing, and believes in jihad in its original meaning as warfare to advance the cause of Islam. However, it's perfectly possible to believe in the fundamentals of Islam without calling America the "Great Satan", without rejecting modern civilization or terrorism, or condoning suicide bombing. So "fundamentalist Muslim" is inaccurate anyway. It's usually used as some sort of catchall for Wahabbi Sunni Muslims or for the type of Shiite Muslims found in Iran.

    Which is all off-topic, except to say this kind of fuzzy thinking and ignorant misuse (though, regrettably, a common ignorance) of words doesn't offer a bright start for an article titled, "A lesson in logic."

    You seem unwilling to consider that many of your critics might just think you are wrong, and have a passion to put the record straight, as they see it.

    In fact, it just may be that your critics see you as just as guilty, or more guilty, of refusing to consider opposing viewpoints or listen to reason.

    Myself, I love Linux and I certainly have seen no good reasons why the Windows version of patch management is necessarily better than the Linux version. In fact, the Windows version is easier, but ONLY IF THE PATCH WORKS THE FIRST TIME. The Linux type of patching, by sticking to smaller patches, makes it far less likely a patch will break things instead of fix them. This does not make Linux perfect, just better designed.

    And of course the best patch management is in the Debian distribution of Linux. It's slightly more work to get started, but it's easily the most thorough and pan-free patch management on the planet. In fact, the typical Debian user only installs the operating system once. When a newer version of Debian is out, he changes a few lines in his "sources.list" file to point to the newer versions and types "apt-get dist-upgrade" as the root user, and then the system itself checks the sources, figures out what can and can't be upgraded, fetches the upgrades, and installs them.

    Is that oversimplified? Of course. But not by that much. Windows can't touch it.

    The point is, just because Windows does it one way doesn't mean that's the best way.

    We expect fair and unbiased re ...Anonymous -- 06/10/03

    We expect fair and unbiased reporting. We expect articles to be without invective and written without the use of terms meant to incite. This article is less a commentary and more an opinion piece. We expect a balanced account of the facts in reporting.

    The use of language is colourful and so difficult to accept as a reasonable request for a change in behaviour of the parties in question. You would expect that were the journalist to have inspected some of the pro-Microsoft comments on the ZDNet (US) forums that he would have found examples of the same ill-considered and spiteful language that he decries here.

    Rarely does an article like this persuade one to change one's mind. The language is meant to provoke reaction. It does, in combination with previous articles, define a pattern that exposes the mindset of the writer, much as the narrator reveals himself in Browning's "Porphyria's Lover".

    This is perhaps cynicism on my part, but I feel that it is not that some journalists can't see the Truth. It's that they can't sell the Truth.

    "All That is Required for Evil to Succeed is for Good Men to do Nothing".

    Sadly True. I LOVE Linux, use ...Roger Williams -- 07/10/03

    Sadly True.

    I LOVE Linux, use it at home (where I do most of my work, and use Win2K (via VMWare) only because the vast majority of my customers do. I find that a tiny but extremely vocal minority sometimes manages to give Linux a bad name. The majority of Linux folks that I run across (newsgroups, etc) are intelligent and reasonable people who have solid reasons for rejecting Windows, yet do not deny that Linux is still (thankfully) a work in progress.
    Just my 2 cents.

    That's really weird. I know Mr ...Anonymous -- 07/10/03

    That's really weird. I know Mr. Grygus. If anything, he could be described as an OS/2 bigot, not a Linux bigot; he uses OS/2 in his office almost exclusively outside of test beds.

    I believe that the inconsisten ...Anonymous -- 07/10/03

    I believe that the inconsistencies and hyperbole of the advocacy-kind within your article - speaks enough to the careful reader. I need not balabour the points nor give more than one example:

    Where you berate Mr. Grygus for accurately protraying the perennial situation with *most* M/S patches re rollback; this just after accusing him of exaggeration, being a *fascist* and beating his wife with the other hand. Ad-hominem is always the last refuge of the scoundrel, right after Patriotism™.

    As one who know of Mr. Grygus for many years, feel that I also now 'know him', having exchanged enough e-mails for that opinion:

    If you knew more about him than your facile caricature, you'd realize (if you possessed a senseof humour and less of a commercial axe to hone) that - as remarked by another person who knows him well, and also finds your screed offensive for being flat silly:

    "OS/2 Bigot" might fit.. in a waggish sort of way, as he runs his own systems on that rock-stable system (so rock-stable that many ATMs run on it).

    OTOH - I'd characterize Andrew as perhaps the least-bigoted commmentator upon the sordid mess that monopoly-IT has created for the entire world, among those few excellent other candidates who are well-informed, minutely experienced -- and also capable of speaking in clear English from their experience over decades.

    Shame on thee for such gratuitous slander - so especially unwarranted in the particular. Ever check your material? (I know - it's such a waste of time best spent innovating.. ironically so much of the same sort of innovation as.. the OS-marketer you prefer to defend against the indefensible)

    Ashton Brown
    In 'big-science' a lot of years..
    Despiser of language murder.
    And of mediocrity swamping competence.

    M$??? I just went over the doz ...Anonymous -- 07/10/03

    M$???

    I just went over the dozen or so talk backs posted to the previously mentioned article. There were exactly ZERO of them that had the word Microsoft spelled Micro$oft or M$ in them.

    Also, most of them are fairly politely worded, although there are plenty of them that make the point that Mr. Mehlmen has little or no clue about actual Linux / Open Source patching, which seems to be obvious by the wording of both his previous article and this one.

    I write THREE talk backs to his article. All of them took on different points in his article, none of them used the word Micro$oft, nor did they directly attack Mr. Mehlmen for anything other than his obvious journalistic incompetence. I.e. there was no name calling, (i.e. he called linux enthusiasts "linux heads" in his article, I pointed out that his knowledge of the subject was substandard and he might want to do some actual research next time.)

    While he may have received many a flame mail to his private mail box, the fact of the matter is, the talk backs he received were succint, to the point, and generally speaking, every one was better written than the screen he called an article.

    Yes, I'm double posting. In ...Anonymous -- 07/10/03

    Yes, I'm double posting.

    In this article he states:

    "Does this mean a Linux patch could still screw things up? Definitely, but you'd never hear a Linux person admit it. "

    Really? Well, in the previously posted article, the following talk backs ADMITTED it. Maybe he should try reading the talk backs instead of simply assuming what they said.

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback/index.htm?PROCESS=show&ID=20034583&AT=2000048630-20278053
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback/index.htm?PROCESS=show&ID=20034905&AT=2000048630-20278053
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback/index.htm?PROCESS=show&ID=20034946&AT=2000048630-20278053
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback/index.htm?PROCESS=show&ID=20034965&AT=2000048630-20278053
    http://www.zdnet.com.au/talkback/index.htm?PROCESS=show&ID=20034968&AT=2000048630-20278053

    That's five talk backs that mention rolling back patches. Why would one talk about rolling back patches if one were never to admit to patches causing a problem.

    Simple, one has already admitted patches may cause problems. One can only wonder how poorly researched Josh's other articles are if he can't read and comprehend something as simple as the talk backs listed above.

    P.s. he still owes linux users an apology for calling them "linuxheads". I would remind everyone that he did in fact start the name calling. I believe the measured and well reasoned responses posted as talk backs to his previous article prove that his readership really are better suited to being a journalist than My. Mehlman is.

    There will always be people wh ...phil long -- 07/10/03

    There will always be people who pitch a fit when they feel their 'cause' has been attacked, but I certainly hope you don't think that the fanatic posts you got characterize _every_ linux enthusiast; not all of us are bananas.

    I like open source better than proprietary source because the latter almost by definition comes from organizations run from the top down. This in and of itself is not a bad thing (such an organization puts the bread on my table!), but for every significant decision about product direction, a manager must decide which way to go, and just statistically speaking, no idividual _always_ makes the right decision. In the former model, if a maintainer makes a silly decision, anybody else _in_the_world_ can take the source, modify it to his own tastes, and make his own distribution. The better code will be more widely accepted - it's survival of the fittest code. In the latter model, one bad decision can doom a product, and nobody can do anything about it until the vendor gives up the code or goes belly up and loses it.

    There is nothing at all wrong with proprietary software, but I like a business model in which the tools that I use are being directed by more than a single entity. I've been writing code since 1973, and regardless of the product, if my employer was not a big enough customer, my suggestions to the vendor would as often as not fall on deaf ears. When I purchase software now, I make _certain_ that I have at least two sources to play off against one another, but given a choice, I will opt for open-source code so that I can modify the code if I so desire. This is an issue of robustness, not ideology - at least for me.

    Linux has not created market s ...Anonymous -- 09/10/03

    Linux has not created market share, "M$" has created Linux market share. People use "M$" because they were customers of "M$" who become sick of the greed driven abuse of customers by M$. "M$" is not about Linux it is about angry ex customers. What always seems to be forgotten about Linux is that it is an OS written by customers for customers, when M$ competes with Linux it is attempting to compete with potential customers and making an enemy of them at the same time. Like other posters I post for fun. When I do my bit to promote Linux, I do it because I honestly believe it is the best way to go, and I am fully aware that I am attempting to compete against a well funded M$ marketing engine (it is not about the product it is about the profit - the difference between a hack and a craftsman who takes pride it what he produces). Did you take pride in what you have written. Besides talkback on ZDNET was getting a bit flat and pointless - top points for a bit of marketing and getting talk back a bit more active.

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