Microsoft: Firefox does not threaten IE's market share

Internet Explorer (IE) is no less secure than any other browser and does not lack any important features, according to Microsoft. But the managing director of Cisco admitted that he wouldn't use IE without additional protection.

At a security round-table discussion in Sydney on Thursday, Microsoft's security and management product manager, Ben English, told attendees that IE undergoes "rigorous code reviews" and is no less secure than any other browser.

"Because IE is ubiquitous you hear a lot more about it, but I don't think that Internet Explorer is any less secure than any other browser out there," said English.

However, Ross Fowler, managing director of Cisco Australia and New Zealand, said the network giant uses IE internally but only after deploying its Secure Agent, which is a desktop utility that monitors all activity and alerts the user if it spots something unusual -- such as a keystroke logging program.

"Internally we have deployed Cisco Secure Agent to prevent those day-zero attacks and we have more and more of our customers -- particularly in the University sector -- deploying the Cisco secure agent," said Fowler.

No threat from Firefox
Microsoft Australia's managing director, Steve Vamos, said that he did not believe IE's market share was under threat after the recent high profile launch of Mozilla's Firefox browser.

Vamos said that although he has heard other people mention the threat posed by Firefox, he does not believe the threat is real.

"I'm not sure that that is the reality. I have seen comments around that but there is nothing I can refer to that really supports that," he said. Instead, Vamos added, users needed educating about all the features already offered by Microsoft's browser.

"We probably need to do a bit of work to communicate the features that are in IE," he said.

Vamos, who admitted he has never used Firefox, said there is a lot of hype surrounding the open source movement and if Microsoft's customers wanted new features they would have told the company about it.

"I don't agree is that just because a (competing) product has a feature that we don't have, that feature is important. It is not. It is only important if it is a feature the customer wants. There are plenty of products out there with features we don't have. We have plenty of features that our customers don't use.

"If there are features in our products that are sub-par or need to be added then I have great confidence that we are an organisation that responds pretty quickly and effectively to that," said Vamos.

Microsoft's English reiterated that features such as tabbed browsing were not important to IE users.

"I don't believe it is a true statement that IE doesn't have the features that our customers want. We take user feedback very seriously. If you have that feedback then you should feed it back to us because we will feed it to the product team," said English.

If ZDNet Australia  readers have suggestions for features they would like to see in IE, either use the talkback below or e-mail the edit team . We will pass your messages on to both Ben English and Steve Vamos.

Talkback 29 comments

    > "Because IE is ubiqu ...Anonymous -- 11/11/04

    > "Because IE is ubiquitous you hear a lot more about it, but I don't think that Internet Explorer is any less secure than any other browser out there," said English.

    Good one. Always blame the number, eh? How about the fact that IE integrates soooo deeply into Windows that any hole causes complete meltdown. Ah, never mind that...

    > "We probably need to do a bit of work to communicate the features that are in IE," he said.

    Ain't that grand. Fix technical shortcomings with more marketing. Anyone remembers the "technical" letter that explained why graphical subsystem has to go into the kernel with the release of NT 4.0? Sounds a bit like that...

    > Vamos, who admitted he has never used Firefox,

    So, all the comparisons of Firefox and IE are actually quite meaningless, coming from Vamos, aren't they?

    Well, actually tabbed browsing ...Anonymous -- 11/11/04

    Well, actually tabbed browsing has been really nice cleaning up my desktop. I used to have a lot of browser windows open and now it's easier to have a "dashboard" view over all the things I'm researching.

    Also the fact that a lot of other people are constantatly adding features to the browser, though on occassion not reliable, has produced some nice utilities that I wouldn't have though I wanted. For example a weather update tool that sits in my status bar.

    My point is that you don't always know what you want until you see it. And MS has been conservative in trying new innovative features for IE.

    So all we have to do is ask fo ...Anonymous -- 11/11/04

    So all we have to do is ask for features and MS will include them? I would love to see tabbed browsing in IE...

    Thats a healthy attitude. MS s ...Anonymous -- 11/11/04

    Thats a healthy attitude. MS should not pay attention to OSS. That way less people will be pissed by the marketing and we can focus our energy on improving our software. I wish they have the same attitude towards linux.

    I have been using firefox for ...Anonymous -- 12/11/04

    I have been using firefox for a long long time - unless I have to use IE, I avoid it at all costs. 4th attempt of opening IE my browser was already hijacked by some spyware company. At least mozilla doesn't have that problem.

    On the assumption that MS can' ...Anonymous -- 12/11/04

    On the assumption that MS can't be so stupid as to employ a complete dork to run their Oz operation, one can only assume that Vamos is just astonishingly arrogant.

    "Vamos said that although he has heard other people mention the threat posed by Firefox, he does not believe the threat is real."
    - You're one of the leaders in the MS operation here and you've only heard second hand knowledge/comments on the widely publicised (but unbelievable to you) threat posed to one of your prime products? Arrogance, ignorance or incompetence - you chose.

    "...if Microsoft's customers wanted new features they would have told the company about it"
    - web developers have been screaming for years about the misinterpretation of CSS standards in IE. Which deaf ear has MS been listening with all this time? Or is standards compliance not considered a feature?

    The crux is, I don't really care about whether MS add _new_ features, just fix the ones that are there and above all, bring the standards compliance up to par. It won't make a difference to me, I'll still use Firefox as it has basic "features you don't have", but it's frustrating that I still have to develop to MS poor standards implementation.

    Damn right! Anonymous -- 30/11/05 (in reply to #120110084)

    Web standards! Comply to them!

    And: PNG support! What the heck, people have been demanding it for years!

    I have been using firefox for ...Anonymous -- 12/11/04

    I have been using firefox for a long long time - unless I have to use IE, I avoid it at all costs. 4th attempt of opening IE my browser was already hijacked by some spyware company. At least mozilla doesn't have that problem.

    Such an odd way of looking at ...Anonymous -- 12/11/04

    Such an odd way of looking at it. Hey Microsoft, are you concerned this application people give away for nothing might be a competitive threat to this application you also give away for nothing?

    Microsoft has spent gazillions developing Internet Explorer, destroying Netscape with predatory pricing, and using anticompetitive bundling to ensure it cornered the Web browser market . . . And for WHAT? No revenue, millions of disgruntled users and a bottomless pit into which it keeps pouring money to try and plug the never-ending stream of security flaws which the company is now obligated to fix at no charge.

    Great strategy, Bill!

    Microsoft always cracks me up! ...Anonymous -- 12/11/04

    Microsoft always cracks me up! They _know_ people who care about the web wants, and they know that IE doesn't have it. Still they claim IE keeps up with competition. Obviously, this is _only_ a business thing. The more money you can make by doing nothing, the better it is. I feel bad for the people who actually believe the BS these people come up with.

    I've been using Firefox for 2 ...Anonymous -- 12/11/04

    I've been using Firefox for 2 months now and I love it. No viruses, no syware, no popups. Looks great, lot's of cool features and add ons. I'll never use IE again. Who needs Microsoft?

    This is fantastic! I love you, ...Anonymous -- 13/11/04

    This is fantastic! I love you, M$! You guys just keep right on believing all of that crap, while OSS, and Firefox in particular, mows your **** over! Denial is a very good way to lose ground. But, hey, at least you don't have to deal with reality.

    I've said it before (for at least 10 years now) and I'll keep saying it: M$ is their own worst enemy!

    The only reason that IE users ...Anonymous -- 15/11/04

    The only reason that IE users don't ask for features like Tabbed browsing is probably because they don't even know those kind of features exist in the first place... Microsoft is worried, believe me. They're just trying to hide it for PR (or they're really more stupid then I thought).

    Microsoft IE7 witch probably will be released with the new version of Windows (codenamed Longhorn) will probably also feature stuff like Tabbed Browsing etc. But it will probably miss the add-on stuff that the Mozilla Firefox extensions allow.

    This guy apparently sticks his ...Anonymous -- 15/11/04

    This guy apparently sticks his head into the sand and hopes that the "baaaad" OpenSource movement disappears. Heh! OSS in general, and FF particularly are gaining popularity, man. Even if you don't say it loud, at least be a man and accept it!

    I'm not sure what planet this ...Anonymous -- 15/11/04

    I'm not sure what planet this fellow from Micro who!! is on Firefox and thunderbird are faster better looking and certainly a lot more secure, and to say people don't want tab browsing and that they do read all suggestions if they had then they to would have tab browsing. Is Firefox and Thunderbird a threat to Micro who!! well hell yes and about time they were knocked of their seat

    I'm not sure what planet this ...Anonymous -- 15/11/04

    I'm not sure what planet this fellow from Micro who!! is on Firefox and thunderbird are faster better looking and certainly a lot more secure, and to say people don't want tab browsing and that they do read all suggestions if they had then they to would have tab browsing. Is Firefox and Thunderbird a threat to Micro who!! well hell yes and about time they were knocked of their seat

    If the director of Cisco does ...Anonymous -- 15/11/04

    If the director of Cisco does not trust IE without any other additional protection, what does that show?

    If Microsoft wants to keep its IE in the market leader position in the future, they need to put more effort into it. i.e, put some tabbed browsing in it

    Microsoft claim to be "in ...Anonymous -- 16/11/04

    Microsoft claim to be "innovative", yet they can't even be bothered to implement new features. They say it's because there isn't the demand for it, but clearly there is because so many people are now using Firefox.
    So for them to state that they're "innovative" and that open source goes against innovation is clearly just a load of rubbish.

    Open IE, then Open Firefox, se ...Anonymous -- 17/11/04

    Open IE, then Open Firefox, see any major differences? Nope, neither do I. Personally Im happy with Internet Explorer, if it didn't have 95% of the market share I would use it, but its like the only bank in town and everyone is trying to rob it, so Ill goto a smaller out of town bank in the mean time....(http://www.opera.com/)

    Personally I think both Firefox and IE Lack any real features at all...tabbed browsing...how longs that been around...

    MS 0wns you, face it. Stop being Hippies and get on with your lives, Windows and Internet Explorer are superior to every other OS/Browser out there, and personally Im waiting for when Firefox gains 10% of the market share, it will have a New Security Exploit everyday!

    Firefox? Anonymous -- 20/05/07 (in reply to #120110203)

    I keep hearing about how many people have downloaded FF, yet I don't know any non-techie that uses it, and none of the companies I do work at even allow third party software to be installed. Even at companies were local admin rights have been given to users, I've only seen FF on desktops of IT dept.

    Gotta wonder who's using it.

    How can people know what featu ...Anonymous -- 17/11/04

    How can people know what features they want if they have never seen anotherproduct. after introducing users to tabbed browsing, they all loved it. However, they had never heard of the idea, and therefore never requested it. Microsoft makes a poor argument. People are usually content, but once they see a better thing they will want that. HOwever with the majority of windows users, they have never seen tabbed browsing and therefore they don't know about it. Once they find out about it and use it, they would certainly expect all browsers to have it.

    Features i would love to see o ...Anonymous -- 17/11/04

    Features i would love to see on IE:

    no index.dat files that keeps track of my browsing that cannot be easily wiped or removed
    no spyware and tracking cookies pushed to me and picked up by IE (110 spyware items a week w/ lots of various protection using IE6 and 0 with FF 1.0...)
    IE exploits not allowing system access
    Tabbed browsing
    intelligent Popup blocking for all versions and platform of IE, not just XP SP2
    More stability, less crashes.
    IE using less resources
    IE crashes not killing my desktop and systray icons
    Ability to easily uninstall IE from Add/Remove Programs
    More flexibility with saving passwords (never for this site only etc.)

    Funnily enough, when I moved the home PC over to FF 1.0 PR and not 1.0, there were the standard family complaints (they don't like change) but now no-one will go back to IE.
    It would take alot of work and true confidence building (not marketing spin - those of us either with functioning brains and/or in sales themselves can filter through the crap...)

    IE needs to be much MORE secur ...Anonymous -- 24/11/04

    IE needs to be much MORE secure BECAUSE it is so ubiquitous. Microsoft and IE are going to be the main targets because (1) they are Microsoft and (2) because something attacking IE is going to be a lot more successful on a random attack on the population.

    However, not even Microsoft claims that it is anymore secure than Firefox.

    I'll stick with the best security of all (not being in the firing line at all) and great features:
    - tabbed browsing
    - strong ad blocking
    - broad range of user extensions

    I'll also hope that Firefox will improve its major problem: memory management.

    People choose I.E.? Well as it ...Anonymous -- 30/11/04

    People choose I.E.? Well as it comes bundled with with Windows & no alternative offered most new users dont know any better. I have used Firefox since its 0.7 beta (& before that Mozilla) & find it more secure & faster loading. Love the tabbed browsing & Popup Blocker but my default browser has these features & is faster again - Opera rocks but hasn't been getting the hype that Firefox has had lately. Both have versions that run on Linux & mac so changing to another operating system is a little less painful than it would be otherwise. Most users that I have installed Firefox & Opera for love its features.

    Well, it is over 10% Anonymous -- 30/11/05

    here in Europe. Actually it is around 16% already.
    And in Finland, Germany and Slovenia it is already over 30%.
    So? Haven't seen those "exploits every day"...

    Opera Anonymous -- 19/05/07

    Opera ftw. Firefox is ok, but Opera does everything for me and more in 1 simple package.

    IE 7 is not upto scratch pjdigital -- 19/05/07

    as a developer i find tabbed browsing a god send. microsoft need to pay more attention to the W3C standards and realize the dont control the web for start, and yes proper .PNG support for sure PNG is the best web image format by far. both IE and firefox have there security issues firefox can be hijacked ive seen it, firefox is simply more secure out of the box, IE can be secured if you know how to, but considering Firefox is open source and IE has a billion dollar budget behind it firefox is clearly the superior browser i find IE7 to be slower and a little clunky, i jst wish they would all conform to the standard so web development could be easier and faster, open source is clearly in front on the web though 95% of my clients run Linux,PHP,Mysql,Apache its cheaper to host theres a million open source web apps for PHP / Mysql and it can do everything and much more than its much more expensive .NET counterpart, theres no flashy GUis and useless Objects chewing up resources with LAMP its fast secure and reliable and i dont have to pay a company to use it. microsoft have a long way to go before ill even consider there technology for web apps.
    some info:
    60% of all webservers are apache
    over 78% of all Dynamic Web Sites are PHP / Mysql or other open source SQL and according to my servers nearly 38% of all browser hits are Firefox a couple of years ago Netscape based browsers like firefox made up less than 5% of my hits not a threat hey microsoft ? i think you should rethink that statement open source is better than ever and on the rise clearly, although MS will always have big business due to the support factor and theres always those folks who just use IE because it comes with windows. Now if linux could come up with a Directx Alternative i would be done with MS all together the only reason i still run windows is for the games support thats it.

    features Anonymous -- 20/05/07

    This Vamos guy should not be in the browser business for the simple fact that he has absolutely no clue and never taken the time to find out what his competition is up to.
    Besides that my favorite features on firefox has got to be the tabbed browsing and then the other is being able to highlight text in a web page and then doing an automatic google search with a right click on the text. Really handy because it opens the results in another tab and is good for finding definitions and clarifications for stuff that you are reading up on.

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