Charity tells Bill to "get real"

The embittered battle between Microsoft and PCs for Kids continues, with the charity outraged over the software giants so-called "gesture of good will".

Microsoft has released a statement saying it will provide 150 packs of Windows 95 and 10 refurbished computers worth a total of AU$65,000 as a -gesture of goodwill" to Australian charity organisations -- the Rotary Club of Geelong and the Geelong YMCA.

-As the founder of PC's for Kids I am ashamed at this half-hearted offer by Microsoft...," PCs for Kids owner Colin Bayes said.

Bayes, angered by the software giant's decision said, "Microsoft has offered us zilch, zero. As far as they're concerned, we're going to fold."

Microsoft's corporate affairs manager Julie Inman told ZDNet that under-privileged kids in East Timor will receive the technology donation via the Rotary International project, -in association with PCs for Kids".

A spokesperson for the Rotary Club of Geelong, however, expressed concern for the charity's future saying the software giant's technology donation -does not help PCs for Kids at all".

PCs for Kids provides the Rotary Club of Geelong with recycled computers for its own charitable work.

Rotary says while the Microsoft donation will help the Club in the short term, it does nothing to support PCs for Kids' long term charitable work.

-Really the work is done by PCs for Kids. If Microsoft wanted to benefit them they would've been better to give it to them,"

-If in the long term their aim is to shut him down, they might achieve it," the spokesperson said.

Bitter battle
PCs for Kids have been embroiled in a battle with Microsoft over the installation of obsolete Operating Systems on recycled computers, which it donates to underprivileged kids.

The charity and Microsoft met early last week to discuss a way for the operation to continue its work without impeding on copyright laws.

-Given concern about PCs for Kids, we are doing everything to expedite the application process and are hoping to ensure continued support...," a Microsoft statement said.

PCs for Kids application for 2,300 copies of Microsoft's software valued at over AU$400,000 was knocked back. Inman says, "we weren't able to help them out in this particular instance, it's quite an extraordinary ask given that we try to reach a broad range of charities."

Bayes says Microsoft's -kind" gesture to donate software to disadvantaged children in East Timor does not solve the copyright issue and has left hundreds of kids on the charity's waiting list without assistance.

PCs for Kids has received international acclaim over its fight for the right to donate computers to needy kids.

According to Bayes, United Kingdom Prime Minister Tony Blair has even sent the charity a letter outlining his support for its efforts in bridging the digital divide.

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Talkback 28 comments

    What more did PCs for Kids rea ...Paul Snedden -- 01/08/01

    What more did PCs for Kids really expect to get out of The Beast from Redmond? Micro$oft have shown time and time again they do NOT have their fingers on the pulse of reality, and play the game according to their own agenda.

    Keep up the fight, Colin.

    PC's For Kids have brought thi ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    PC's For Kids have brought this on themselves. I do not doubt that they do great work for the community, but did they ever consult Microsoft up front about breaking the licencing agreement and selling the operating system software on "second hand" machines?

    As noted by others, maybe it's ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    As noted by others, maybe it's time to give MS the flick and go Linux/KDE/K-Office (as an example) Let us train the youngsters with open/free OS and software before they become MS-drones.

    Licencing is there for a reaso ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    Licencing is there for a reason. I agree with Pete Mitchell regarding his comments, but one thing he failed to address was the use of "abandoned" Operating Systems. How do you differ between people leaglly using "abandoned" operating systems and those illegally using it to gain access to upgrades to the newer systems?

    Surely, when these PCs were pu ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    Surely, when these PCs were purchased, they were licensed with WIN95, WIN98 or NT. Therefore, MS have already got their money. Why should they get a double payment? Further to this, Microsoft's offering of end of life WIN95 licenses is pathetic.

    It's great for PC for kids to ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    It's great for PC for kids to 'give away' other people's property, then getting pissed off when they take offence!

    The bottom line is the boxes they were given, didn't have licences because the person donating them kept them.

    Get over it, they didn't give me a free Rolls either.

    Load Linux, which is fine for all you need anyway, and stop bashing Bill. It fair enough he doesn't want his stuff stolen.

    I learned when I was very, ver ...Dee Temple -- 01/08/01

    I learned when I was very, very young to say "thank you" when someone gave me gift.

    A little reality please and a ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    A little reality please and a few facts.
    Fact 1 : When a PC is first sold with an operating system pre loaded it is provided with a certificate and a CD which is required under OEM licencing agreements to stay with the PC for the life of the PC. Instead of rubbishing Microsoft Mr Bayes, maybe you should speak to your generous supplier of PC's and find out who is pocketing the income from the illegal sale of this software.
    Fact 2 : Yes Microsoft is worth Billions of dollars, and they also donate billions of dollars every year to charities of choice. Let me ask some of the many short sighted, narrow minded morons who continually knock companies like Microsoft how much of their income they donate to charitable organisations. I would expect zero.
    Fact 3 : If I was Microsoft I would not submit to the bullshit propaganda tactics of Mr Bayes either, however I would recognise an opportunity to benefit youth (which is the major area of support for their charitable programs)and set up my own program to provide systems to disadvantaged. Congrats to Microsoft for their donation to the Rotary clubs.

    A suggestion to Mr Bayes - Maybe instead of whinging and carrying on like a complete moron once caught out doing something you should have known was illegal (charitable organisation or not, law is law, can I go out and drive my car at 200 kms an hour because I work for a charitable organisation, I think not!)you should do your research in the first place and provide legal PC's. Speak to your supplier. The original software exists somewhere. Find it and you solve your problem. But then someone will loose out on thousands of dollars selling illegal software!! And you will miss out on all the misleading publicity you have gained by bagging Microsoft.

    Or was that the whole point, Mr Bayes.

    Shane, you are spot on! But I ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    Shane, you are spot on! But I dont understand the reason why such a charity exists.. sure we shouldnt deny kids computers.. but what about food and shelter.. maybe Mr Bayes should rather organise an auction of the PC he has left (with or without OS) and use the money to address issues such as world hunger.. Im sure the kids will survive without a PC.. but ones without food or shelter will not..

    Get a brain Mr Bayes..

    To Shane - From Pc's For Kids ...Colin Bayes -- 01/08/01

    To Shane - From Pc's For Kids in Geelong Victoria - 1st I would expect a comment like this to come from Microsoft employee but then again it seems you are not understanding the facts. So let me guide you through the maze. We are all volunteers with one common goal (Assist A Childs Education) with their 1st home PC. 2nd we collect your old redundant canabalized systems and other IT junk, our loyal team refurbish this into a system to assist our Less Fortunate. 3rd Every system (PC) received has either Win95 or olders M$ operating system , the donors information is WIPED to protect them from their info going to another person. We never receive the original system disks that was purchased with this system. So we did "Hardload" from our master the OS back on. 4th We work with other charities and overseas aid org's to locate a needy child. 5th We install the system and load it up with Freeware Educational Programs 6th This system that was destined for your Cleanaway Bin, has just made a child's day. 7th And this is for you Shane, when you make a comment like you just did, we hope you never lose your job and have children, as you will need help then from the good community driven projects like Pc's for Kids Inc ......To the others who support Pc's for Kids Thanks....http://www.pcsforkids.org
    To the M$ readers, I think your PR dept is in for a long battle, from Pc's for Kids view you have lost your (Kodak Magic Moment)

    To Colin First, I do not work ...Anonymous -- 01/08/01

    To Colin

    First, I do not work for Microsoft, and do not defend them if they have done something wrong.
    Second, I think what you are doing providing PC's for the less fortunate is a great thing
    Third, I think you are running an excellent marketing campaign, playing off your illegal use of Microsoft software and the media to popularise your cause
    fourth, if you despise Microsoft so strongly, don't use their product, install Linux for Christ sake
    fifth, as I said before, the original software which was sold with these computers exists somewhere, maybe you ought to try asking your source of PC's for the software also, then you would have nothing to complain to Microsoft and the rest of us about.
    Problem solved!

    From Pc's for Kids in Australi ...Colin Bayes -- 02/08/01

    From Pc's for Kids in Australia. Please read this before you post any comments as a few readers are not understanding the facts. M$ decided not to offer (Pc's for kids)any support, they opted for the easy way out, by offering our local community (YMCA and Geelong Rotary Club) the joint assistance. Thus leaving Pc's for Kids in the cold. (Fine) We asked for under the guideline from M$ a 12-months supply of Win-3.11 and Win-95 OS the total is (750) and we asked to use M$ Word at the wordprocessing ....We at Pc's for Kids are glad that M$ offered assistance to the YMCA but the offer to Rotary is confusing, as we (Pc's for kids) build these systems for Rotary. If we fold then who builds the 150 donation of Win95? (Regardless) Lets make it clear, we at Pc's for kids are all Volunteers and NOT PAID one cent, we receive little sponsorship and re do not run raffles or collect $$$$$ - we just want to assist our Less Fortunate Kids get a kick start in the IT world. If Mr. Gates wants to fight and close a charity who is trying to do good for kids then Bill we at Pc's for Kids have to lable M$ (Lower Than A Snakes Belly) Get Real Bill !!!

    Let the evil empire fall. Linu ...Don -- 02/08/01

    Let the evil empire fall.
    Linux and sun office would seem to be the only answer, but where is microsofts alleged heart?
    How long does M$ expect to keep raking in profit on 3.1 & 95? It's surely fairly obvious that anyone who can really afford an OS is not going to choose either.

    It is good that articles like ...Anonymous -- 02/08/01

    It is good that articles like this appear in the media.

    Schools and Colleges do not teach Linux which I consider unfortunate.

    People should be able to make informed decisions on what software to use on their PC.
    If they only learn Microsoft packages they will not be able to critically analyse the pros and cons of various systems and packages.

    Furthermore, the Australian tax payers would like their money spend judiously. Why is it channelled to Microsoft for products which could be easily replaced with equally good products for a fraction of the cost?

    I believe the media has a morale duty to question the waste of tax payers money.

    Has it come so far that we are all working for Micrsoft either directly or indirectly, with people even being asked to dob in moneyless students just that Microsoft can produce an even greater record profit.

    Something is really going wrong!

    Australian tax revenue should go to the benefit of the Australian society.
    Why so much money is wasted on over priced products is beyond me.

    I wonder how long it will take until more people complain about their taxes being burned.

    Frank Osterman

    I am really astonished! This h ...Marek Samulski -- 02/08/01

    I am really astonished!

    This huge debate over what..?!! OS for kids who's parents cant afford a PC? Are all of you so short sighted that you don't see what's going on in the world. I'm sure those kids (without PC's) would gladly donate the money raised from the sale of those PC's to hungry kids.

    For example : <a href="http://www.muslim-aid.org.au/app_ch_iraq.htm">Save the Children of IRAQ</a>

    Why don't you try and donate a pc to one of those kids.. I'm sure they will appreciate it. <sarcasm>

    But there is a way that you can help both kids.. By organising that parents of the children or children them self's who received PC's from you, donate 50 Cents a day to such charities that help the hungry orphans around the world. Now that is a just cause.. and I would bet that Mr. Gates would be more inclined to support a more worthy cause. And before we drag Bill Gates' name through the mud, read his biography.. you will see that his generosity is limitless.

    By the way Mr. Bayes.. before you go on at me like you did at Shane.. I have 2 kids.. I am also on the board of charities.. and I don't work or have worked for Microsoft.. so I do understand.

    <p align="center"><a href="http://www.muslim-aid.org.au" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.muslim-aid.org.au/images/banner_orphan.gif" border="0"></a>
    </p>

    Don't confuse the issue ! The ...Francis O'Connor -- 02/08/01

    Don't confuse the issue !

    The advice being given here by some people suggesting that we should feed hungry children first is way off the topic. If we did that, then we would have all these PCs lying around doing nothing, when they could be helping kids. I don't mean any offence, but these PCs could not realistically recycled and sold for any kind of profit. Afterall they are junk.(though not to a kid with no PC)

    The feeling here is generally that MS should support this charity - there is disagreement about can/should the charity just go ahead and do what it wants anyway. What we need is a way to lobby MS to assist this charity.

    Collin, is there something we can do ?

    Francis, you didnt read the re ...Marek Samulski -- 02/08/01

    Francis, you didnt read the rest of my post, why not approach MS with my idea, that there will be monetary donations sent to "orphans or hungry kids".. Maybe Mr Gates feels like I do.. why should he spend all that money.. or even donate obsolete OS, when there are starving, homeless kids.. if there is something more.. I just cant justify so much effort, time, and ultimately money being spent on such a trivial thing..
    sorry..

    <p align="center"><a href="http://www.muslim-aid.org.au/images/banner_africa.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.muslim-aid.org.au/images/banner_orphan.gif" border="0" alt="Click here for more details!"></a>
    </p>

    Microsoft Bashing ... This is ...Anonymous -- 02/08/01

    Microsoft Bashing ...

    This is what this article is all about. I do not work for Microsoft, and encourage people to try other products that do the job equally as well or better.

    Mr Bates, what you have done is "steal" the use of software from it's developer. Unfortunately, this is no different to any software pirate who illegally uses software.

    Microsoft's move to donating the computers directly to the YMCA and Rotary Club (please correct me if I'm wrong with these charities)should be applauded. The fact that PC's FOR KIDS 'configure' these machines for them is neither here nor there. The fact is that they have obtained these machines (complete with OS) legally. Companies donating old machines to charity, or destroying them all together, need to understand that they can't pass these machines on with the OS (or any other licenced) software, without passing on the licence as well.

    I understand, and applaude, that you and PC FOR KIDS are trying to close the gap on the "digital divide", but did you ask Microsoft for their assistance before installing illegal software on machines? Before you entered into this media bashing exercise?

    As for everyone who has posted their opinions against Microsoft, your jealously is laughable. If who were the one behind creating Microsoft, I am positive that you wouldn't like people stealing from you, hence would be taking the same stand.

    There are alternatives to Micr ...Anonymous -- 02/08/01

    There are alternatives to Microsoft that the charity could consider. Linux and Sun's Star Office for a start. This solution may start the next generation off on the right footing - ie - not Microsoft dependant!

    I have an old copy of Win95 fr ...the saint -- 02/08/01

    I have an old copy of Win95 from my old computer.
    As I no longer use it, I am prepared to donate my Original CD, Manual and License to PC's 4 Kids.
    I'm sure lots of people still have these floating around. Whats Microsoft going to do then??
    Why couldn't we donate these?
    That way everyone gets what they want:
    PC's 4 kids get software/licenses,
    Microsoft gets Shafted!
    Brilliant

    Marek there is nothing to stop ...Anonymous -- 02/08/01

    Marek there is nothing to stop gates from doing both they are not mutually exclusive.

    Apart form that he already gotten paid the first time round so this is certainly not stealling.

    Why should he be getting paid again for nothing in addition?

    Furthermore the "solution" they offered is infact a backhand trick designed to make the Charity look cheap and irrelevant and cutting them out of the picture.

    In other words the solution is designed to put an end to the Charity by undermining their work and making them look like an unethical organisation posing for a good cause.

    I can not say how disgusted I am.

    [ To Collin ]
    Could you please post the postal address of the Charity as I have two old Windows 95 CDs which I forgotten to through away when I threw the PCs away.

    <Francis, you didnt read the rest of my post, why not approach MS with my idea, that there will be monetary donations sent to "orphans or hungry kids".. Maybe Mr Gates feels like I do.. why should he spend all that money.. or even donate obsolete OS, when there are starving, homeless kids.. if there is something more.. I just cant justify so much effort, time, and ultimately money being spent on such a trivial thing..
    sorry..

    A final point from Shane It is ...Anonymous -- 02/08/01

    A final point from Shane

    It is sad that we are all missing the most important point here.

    Who are the big losers in this whole fiasco.

    The children. And not just the children of East Timor, but also the children of Australia and every other nation on Earth who has received media coverage of these events.

    For they have been shown by example, by an adult in what should be regarded as a high standing position in our community, that it is OK to steal and pirate what does not belong to you, and that if caught, it is simply a matter of creating a media circus out of the whole event to smoke screen the fact that you did the wrong thing in the first instance, and you will then come out the hero, the Robbin Hood, and he from whom you stole shall be once again portrayed as the evil empire.

    The message being sent out to all the underprivelidged or not so underprivelidged children is that it is OK to steal if you cannot afford the things you want.

    Shame, Mr Bayes, Shame.

    Applause to Microsoft for not directly supporting Mr Bayes, but instead recognising a worthy cause.

    And again, I do not work for Microsoft, I do not defend anyone or any organisation when they have done the wrong thing, I currently have no children of my own but several nephews and neices, and I give away a substantial percentage of my income every year to credible charitable organisations.

    They lost my goodwill. A re ...Anonymous -- 02/08/01

    They lost my goodwill.

    A responible corporate citizen would not try to beat a Charity virtually into submission.

    Good on Mr. Bayes that he has the courage to stand up to Microsoft, not many would.

    Neither would many journalist have the courage to report critically on MS, at least not as long as they have a mortgage.

    On the other hand I believe that people should look if there are viable alternatives to Windows.

    The real question is whether u ...Anonymous -- 03/08/01

    The real question is whether underprivileged kids should receive this sort of help. Surely the answer is yes. Does the charity have a genuine commitment to help? Again the answer is surely "yes". Perhaps a more generous community would consider options to help. Perhaps a more generous MicroSoft would as well. In any event, MicroSoft could and should create and maintain a better public image by assisting PC's for Kids to load basic software on these machines and it surprises me that their publicists haven't worked out a way to do that.

    MS is out of touch. They had r ...Anonymous -- 03/08/01

    MS is out of touch.

    They had received their rightly dues when the machines were sold, when they were new.

    Noone is saying that MS should not get paid for their work at all.
    However it seems like MS wants to be paid once again for offering nothing in return.

    Furthermore, if the Charity would pay for the already paid for licenses that money would not go to the intended recipients the kids.

    People who donate money for the kids expect the money to go to the kids and not being handed over to the worlds richest multinational concern.

    The worlds richest multinational concern does not need any donations and while I do donate to various Charities I would not donate to Microsoft.

    I believe many people would object to donating money to Microsoft instead of giving it to the needy as it was intended.

    MS is not losing anything, they already received their rightly dues when the machines were first sold.

    What really gets me is that MS is trying the take the money which Australian citizens donated in good faith to the Charity believing that it will go to the kids and then comes MS and is trying to prevent the money going to the kid by trying to take it for themselves.

    How many times does MS wants to get paid for the licenses?

    Who in their right mind would try to deviously enrich themselves at the expense of a Charity for kids?

    What Charity? 10 refurbished c ...Anonymous -- 03/08/01

    What Charity?

    10 refurbished computers @ 1000,-- : 10000.--
    150 licences for an old OS : 150.--
    Total cost : 10150.--
    Total used by Micro$oft : 65000.--
    Tax deduction win by MS : 54850.--

    Priceless...

    Interesting story. The story g ...Anonymous -- 03/08/01

    Interesting story.

    The story gets better with every episode. I really hope that we will be able to read about the final outcome when the matter is finally settled.

    I can't believe that MS would act like this.

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