ACCC exposes punting software program

By ZDNet Australia Staff
10 August 2001 11:33 AM
Tags: accc, punt, program, injunction, bet, promoter, accused
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has accused the promoters of a horserace betting software program of misleading punters into a no-win situation.

The Federal court has granted interim injunctions against the promoters of a punting software program, which claims to analyse the rise and fall of dividends paid and tracks bets on horse races. The program plugs a success rate of between 70 and 95 percent.

The injunction has been bought against Solutions Software International, and two related companies formerly known as Acepark and Offtrack Investments.

The ACCC has claimed various Australian TAB services were also linked to the program.

The program allegedly fools punters into believing it can place successful bets, according to the ACCC. Furthermore, the companies are said to have received AU$8000 a month from the program's earnings.

The programs sold for up to AU$12,500 each.

The software companies have also been accused of false advertising, touting the service as an investment program rather than a gambling or punting system.

The ACCC is seeking a permanent injunction on the service and a refund to customers for the purchase price of the program and any costs incurred.

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Talkback 116 comments

    Has there been any acton by AC ...Anonymous -- 13/08/01

    Has there been any acton by ACCC against a company called National Software Australia who market a product called Horizon. I was pushed into purchasing one of these packages also under the guise of an investment package. Since I have had a back injury and can no longer work full time I mistakenly thought that I may be able to earn some income through this package, so I parted with $5500. I guess its a case of "buyer beware" and I didn't. Anyway I would be interested to hear from anyone who has the same package.

    When does that maggot go to ja ...Glen Lyon -- 02/03/02

    When does that maggot go to jail.

    Tell us, we need to know

    There is nothing wrong or misl ...Brian Hopkins -- 02/03/02

    There is nothing wrong or misleading with the Offtrack Investments or Bankers Trust Programs. The Programs simply provide detailed graphical portrayals of TAB server inforamtion that is availble to the public etc.

    How I interpret and use the inforamtion is up to me - in the same way as watching dividend movements/win mover changes in a TAB or at a Racecourse.

    Advertising is not misleading or unfair - you have to use it yourself and understand that the programs provide information only.

    I have been using the programs successfully for nearly 2 years and believe them to be ethical, practical, interesting and good value for money.

    Yours sincerely,
    Brian Hopkins JP
    New Zealand

    I bought the off track program ...Richard Obers -- 02/03/02

    I bought the off track program and it is for information on betting prices it shows me all the betting action winning and losing its the ultimate video game its not a toy to be used by people with no real passion for racing and want to get rich quick It takes many hours practice to get to learn how to pick winners but it takes years to learn HOW TO BET WITH PRECISION BASED ON SUTTLE MOVMENTS OF MONEY NOW I DONT WANT MY MONEY BACK I WANT MY TAZ FREE INCOME THAT OFF TRACK GAVE ME BACK

    I bought the offtrack program ...Sandra -- 02/03/02

    I bought the offtrack program approx 3 years ago.
    Although they gave me a lot off customer support, to this day I still loose on races which they tell me havethe perfect graphs. I have lost about $2000.00 over the past 3 years, and have come to the conclusion that I am either stupid and can't use the program, or they have conned me into beleiving I could use the program to win.
    The money I used could come in very handy as my husband was in a car accident about 18 months ago and can't work like he used to,so if they are a scam and there is a possibility of getting my money back, I will do anything except let you print my name and email address.

    Sandra

    I purchased the Offtrack progr ...Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I purchased the Offtrack program two and a half years ago. Had all types of problems and of course the problems were always related to other things. e.g. I purchased two new computers over the two years, tried numerous ISP's to receive the downloads etc. to no avail. I spent all the money I had for an "investment" for my future, was in so deep that I had to keep trying to get the thing to work - that did not happen. I started insisting on having my money back a few months after I purchased it, as they had told me that if it didn't work, I could have my money back. They finally promised, in writing to give me 'some' back - 18 months later - I am still waiting. All up I have lost over $20000.00, including the cost of program, new computers, ISP's, bets, phone calls, etc,etc.

    I purchased the "Offtrack ...Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I purchased the "Offtrack" program approx 3years ago & have had no real success with it. Fortunately I have only lost about $150 plus my initial outlay for the program/computer etc. But it is not capable of earning me the income which I had hoped for. There have been numerous changes of staff over the years & very little help in using the program. I had one training session with a so called expert over the telephone but he seemed to me to be quite inebriated and subsequently I got very little from the "training". I am very interested in the outcome of the action being taken by the ACCC.

    I have had this program for al ...Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I have had this program for almost 12 months. I have had no luck making any money out of it.I thougt that prehaps it was me missing something important somewhere.Have spent about 15 hours per week approx trying to get it right,trying different combinations.I would like my money back!!

    Previous posting "When do ...Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    Previous posting "When does that maggot go to jail" by Glen Lyon was written by an impersonator.
    This is not the first time this has happened and they have been warned once before. Some people are just looking for trouble.

    I really don't know what the p ...Peter H -- 02/03/02

    I really don't know what the problem is!!! I find if I remain centred with myself and analyze the information accurately it is a wonderful way to make money. ""It is about letting the program tell me when to place investments and not trying to look for them"". If I am looking for them I am not operating it successfully - I am beginning to have many successful days/evenings and will be pissed off if the providers of this program can no longer allow me to keep doing this because of the idiots who abuse it - CONTROL YOUR DESIRES and you may find it does work - STOP when you hit your daily win!!!

    I bought the program just over ...Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I bought the program just over 12 months ago. At the beginning I tried to back every race. I soon learned that was a sure fire way to lose money. I now look for the professional money and am having great success. Some days I reach my goal for the day in only 1 or 2 races. I soon know if the Proffessionals are not out there. A maximum time outlay of around an hour or two. Where can the average "Joe" earn approx $100 - $200 an hour or more some days??? Those of you who are losing heaps need to dry run and not just gamble.

    I too succummed to the lure of ...Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I too succummed to the lure of easier money especially when i was going thru a very bad time in my life. I thought this was a way out.
    After the initial purchase and between $5,000-7,000 down in losses is that in hindsight i was a fool.
    I hope the Accc can help me and others get their money back and prevent any others doing the same mistake.
    gabriel

    I bought Bankerschoice in Sept ...Anonymous -- 02/03/02

    I bought Bankerschoice in September 2001, after they had been warned. How do they ignore the warning? I too thought I was just stupid but who is really stupid to throw away $10000.00?? They obviously lied. I had been called every three months to buy this program when it was still Offtrack investments. After a year, fresh blood got me signing on the dotted line. My husband earns a very good salary ion the I.T business and I was told that I would get my money back in 8 weeks! I have $11.00 in my TAB account, have done what all three trainers trained me to do. By the way, they all have a different way of teaching you how to gamble, which by the way I have never done in my life! My marriage has suffered becasue of these sharks because I have thrown away $11000.00 which also includes the software for Dynamic Trading which is the same crowd of liars. I do think that the program works however, for hardend punters ((((I AM NOT ONE OF THEM)))))).I was lied to and told that it is investing, its gambling. After complaining I was given another trainer. They love firing their staff all the time too by the way. Its a pity we have to wait so long for the real culprits to be fired from ever owing a business!! What is wrong with the system out there or are we being punished for trusting. At any rate, I think its also time to expose them to Channel 9 Current affair to stop them from selling this program to other unsuspecting people. They advertise falsly and should've have been honest and then its up to the individual to buy the software with open eyes and know that it is a fantasmagoric opportunity for gamblers. Never buy something that doesn't offer a money back guarnetee. This is an expensive lesson i have learnt, one that cost over $10000.00. They have to pay us back. I have complained to the ACCC. Thank God for them. I just hope that they can deliver. If anyone is keen to expose them post your message and lets get them on TV the little moles. By the way, sionce I wrote them a few weeks back, they didn't even the decency to write back and tell me to get lost or anything. Their silence says it all and they CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE.... SECOND TO NONE. Can you believe it. Its time they were stopped, so lets go get em!!!!!

    these software programmes work ...Richie Obers -- 03/03/02

    these software programmes work at helping people make winning bets based on live information downloads the problem that some people have is that they have been under the illusion that they can win reasonable amounts in a short time.I believe it takes years of steady practice to be able to sucsessfully make money out of the offtrack programe .Picking winners through money movments is very difficult and it seems some are more better at it than others I warned the sales lady when I purchased mine that they should not be making income earnings projections as this is the main reason many people invested into the programe .

    We purchased Offtrack about 3 ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    We purchased Offtrack about 3 years ago and like many other people on this comments board have had no success, even with the "perfect indicators".
    We are also very interested in any action that may help us get our so called "investment" back.

    Stongly suggest that all those ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    Stongly suggest that all those that have lost money in these investments either phone or email complaints to the ACCC.
    Emails can be sent from their web page.
    The more complaints they receive the more chance we stand of getting any money back.

    I started off with $3000 in th ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    I started off with $3000 in the TAB account a year and a half ago. I stuck to Offtrack's and Bankers Choice criterias, tried all 4 of them and now I am $3000 plus in the red .
    The software does not deliver live data, if it did it wouldn't have a 1 - 2 minute delay and also stop getting feeds 1 minute before the race. Thousands of dollars can be put on in that time just before the race and you don't get to see it?
    It humours me when Offtrack/Bankers Choice keeps using the terms: Invest, investing, investment, professional money, smart money, professional spike it goes on and on.
    Reallity: by purchasing this program is a gamble and not smart money, making a bet is gambling not investing, a hundred people state wide sitting at the Pub TAB making $20 bets (total $2000)a minute before the race starts is not a professional spike.

    We bought the Off-track progra ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    We bought the Off-track programme nearly three years ago, made the change to Bankers Choice when the bought Off-Track. There is nothing wrong with either of these programmes. Bankers probably has an edge on Off-track. The problem is the idiots that believe if quick fix's which unfortunately is the great majority surveyed here.If one follows the programme one will make money, fact. Betting on every race is at no time recommended, betting on two year olds is a no no, betting over 14 in a race out. How does one bet on every race with those rules? What we have here is people looking for Santa to appear on Christmas Eve. When we purchased Off-Track there was a money back guarantee plus a thirty day cooling off period. We never asked for our money back. They should make selecting their clients a rule as well. Does anyone write to the ACCC when they don't win Lotto? Come on fellows live in the real world. Why would anyone wait for three years etc, then ask for their money back. I wonder will the ACCC interview anyone that knows how to work the programme, I doubt it. If any person require my email post the request here. I don't want a bunch of idiots writing to me.
    Rhonda

    Hi, this is Peter H again. I p ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    Hi, this is Peter H again. I posted a message earlier and wish to add a little extra. Firstly I appologise for calling the people losing their money idiots - as I too started on this win/lose cycle until I learnt to master 'time', rather than 'time' taking control over me, which causes you to look for the winners in every race. Personally, if Offtrack, or Bankers, who now own this program, are forced to stop providing this program to me by the ACCC after all the disciplinary tactics that I have learnt to apply upon myself whilst operating it, then I feel that the ACCC should be liable for the initial stress - financial outlay (computer /connections/etc etc )and losses I experienced, as well as all the future loss of earnings I will suffer. I do however recommend they modify their advertising strategy to ensure people don't think it is an easy game - IT IS NOT. It works providing you remain honest with yourself and learn when to cease betting (investing). The advantage I had, I guess, is that I was already a punter on a casual level and knew full well what I was purchasing from the very beginning. Now I wait in 'silence' and even try to read a book etc during quiet times, until a graph that suits my preferential selection criteria (and I have devised many options for myself) basically sais "here I am - pick me!" If this loses - don't despair - realign yourself again to avoid chasing it back. Anyhow I am counting on the continual use of the Bankers program for a real time income (short term - but for the long run - every graph/race/day is different - DON'T get carried away!) Please guys - think carefully about the one's you witness that do win - even if you have to invest on two horses/dogs in the same race - there are definite styles of graphs/pools etc that quite simply come storming in! By the way, I spent many, many, many hours to realise this! I hope this aids the people who are obviously very distressed about losing their money.
    Regards Peter

    my partner and i purchased thi ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    my partner and i purchased this program around 1998. we never made any money on this program and after a while stopped using it. i spent alot of money , time and effort in trying to break even..on a crap program which alot of the time had time out or downloading data errors. these guys ripped us off and i think we all deserve a refund of at least the program price we paid for.
    cheers. and i thought you were all straight up!! marion and company.

    Illegal software.............. ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    Illegal software..................
    I wonder if Bankers Choice is still telling clients that they are affiliated with the TAB's?
    or...
    letting clients know that you are buying software that is illegally using data from the TAB web sites which is against TAB copyright...Please if anyone disagrees with me contact the NSW and QLD TAB's.Email direct to their webmaster.
    Trev

    We too bought Off Track and ha ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    We too bought Off Track and had the same bad experiences with the program as others. We found it impossible to pin down the criteria for selecting the winning graph. In the end, we realised it was probably a rip off. Goodbye, $10,000 plus bets!

    After months of research into ...Anonymous -- 03/03/02

    After months of research into the vast number of programs available on the market, my wife and I decided to go ahead with the BC program. It was quite scary since we are both sceptical about gambling. Given the way the product was promoted, it did make some sort of sense. Admitantly, we did make some obvious and silly mistakes in the early stages. After analysing some of these decisions, we have become alot more disciplined in our approach and are starting to see the benefits filter through. To avoid large losses, we started off paper trading to prove the methodology of the program. This was followed by 1 and 2 dollar bets. To extract the full value of the program I believe bets in the vicinity of $50 to $100 range are required. Realistically, we are a long way from this but I'm sure as our confidence grows so to, will our success. We are still well short of recouping the initial outlay of $5500 however, we still remain quite positive about the program.

    With regard to TREV's comment ...Bankers User -- 04/03/02

    With regard to TREV's comment about the "illegal software" I have made a couple of enquiries about this to NSW TAB and VIC TAB and the customer service reps told me that info was there for the public. If the info is for public display on a public domain then it cant be illegal to download it. There is nothing illegal about downloading from public domains. It is information for the public.
    If the TABs did not want you to download the info they could stop it. Some sites enable "interlectual property" clauses and dont allow you to "right click" and save info.
    The TABs want your business. They want as much money bet on every race as they can get as this effects their profit. They make profit on the size of the pool not who wins and definitely not who downloads off their website. Why do you think they have all have online betting. THEY WANT YOUR MONEY. If you win thats good. If you loose they dont care. They have shareholders saying get the money in on as many races as you can. Its quite logical if you think about it. Bigger pools means more profit. They take a % off the top of each pool.
    I am surprised that they don't promote programmes that utilize their publicly displayed information.
    If you want to discuss this further email me.
    I have a BA in IT and MASTERS of BUSINESS COMMS. I work for a large educational institution in Sydney.
    I prefer to remain anonymous as I have a publicly listed phone number and do not want to be answering the phone all day and all night. Please feel free to email me at felicity_edu@hotmail.com and will endeavour to answer any questions.

    hi I have been reading the co ...Brian Hopkins -- 04/03/02

    hi

    I have been reading the comments and just want to add that I will be off to the NZTAB today to pick up winnnings made over the weekend. I am also expecting cheques from the NSW TAB. these are significant and regular and all made using information I have learned since buying offtrack and using the latter Bankers choice programs.

    It is real folks but you can't bet on every race or on every "spike" - Wait for the ones that hit you in the eye. Use a "count-down" alarm clock to remind you say 2 minutes before a race is starting. Then you can go about your business between races and simply check the graphs in time to bet if you want to. NOTE THE EMPHASIS "IF YOU WANT TO" - THE PROGRAM DOES NOT BET FOR YOU!"

    Happy to talk to anyone on Auckland 09 638 7031.

    I wouldn't be using the program if I didn't want to!

    Brian Hopkins

    Okay to you guys (real punters ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    Okay to you guys (real punters)and gamblers who are making money using the program. I was lied to by the sales person that I would make my $11000.00 back in 8 weeks. How can that be possible. I challenge anyone out there who has this program to make $11000.00 in 8 weeks. Now remember, I was not told that 5 weeks would be of training of 1 hour per week. That would leave me three weeks to have officially been a professional. NOT? I am not a stupid idiot who thought I would make tons of money without having been told I would. I have never watched or betted on any race in my life. I told the salesperson this too. With glee I was encouraged to buy this unique program that would make me rich. Remember the Offtrack video. Does it look like it has taken years of "practice" to earn a few Bob?
    Does it look like you still stay in your regular job? No it looks like you are stinking rich with allot of time on your hands because you have made heaps of lovely money. Are we not in it for the money. Or do you punters just love going to the races and that is the reason for buying the software?

    So, I will stand by my guns. Another example of hard line selling is that my husband earns a huge salary. I was drawn into buying this program to save my husband the hard life of working to death. I told this to the salesperson and he said, wait for this one, my husband could leave his job in time!
    Thank God he didn't pack it in. I am angry for the lies. If I was told up front that this is great for people wanting an " edge' on the average punter out there. A gambling tool, then I would not have touched it. Its that simple. But lets be honest here. You can't have a company like this tell you the truth. God no, then we non punters would not be buying their program. Where is their "second to none service "now.?
    You keep your customers happy. They are in it for the money and its time Australians stood their ground and demand some decent service out there. I will reitterate that its a gambling tool and they should stop selling this program as an investment opportunity. Jees, for goodness sake, do you ask a punter sitting in a pub, hey man, how much are you investing today? I can assure you, he is also not "backing" losers, which we are constantly told as part of our training.
    I am still waiting from a response from the company but still nothing. I just wish that I had the common sense to find them out first before parting with money. We are in the red because of these liars and I will do anything to get my husband's money back. I do not feel that there would be any danger to the happy customers out there unless the company will not honour their commitment to customer service, as you can see sorely lacks in integrity.
    They should still offer software updates and service and I do not think that any law would prevent them from keeping their commitment to the happy ones out there.
    I just want them stopped from lying to more people and to advertise the truth, then they have nothing to worry about!!!
    By the way, has anyone got their telephone number(s) and address. They are unreachable. Have you noticed that you can't get into their website?
    Great customer service.

    I dont understand all the fuss ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    I dont understand all the fuss.I purchased the OFFTRACK program and i am now with BANKERS CHOICE and I THINK IT IS THE BEST SOFTWARE OUT THERE.I have made good money because i get incredible live information on the races but this also means it requires patients and dicipline.It also requires self responsibility as it is not a pokermachine.THANKYOU BANKERS FOR YOUR GREAT PROGRAM and allowing me to make a great income.
    Yours Sincerely
    Luke

    Having had the offtrack progra ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    Having had the offtrack program for the last 2 years I"ve had mixed results breaking even overall the trouble seems consistency when you have a good period of following your own criteria all of a sudden what you think is right goes out the door.I have spent countless hours studying the program and it does seem to be impossible to make the thousands the sales people say.Most disapointing is the extremely bad customer service its very difficult to get into contact with the operators either by phone or via the website.Would it be possible to get in contact with the people who do well out of the system to see if they can give any advice on where our problems lie in selections.It may not be possible as it effects the dividends

    I too would like to talk to ot ...Martin Wheeler -- 04/03/02

    I too would like to talk to other people who have been successful with Offtrack/BC but my previous message was deleted. What is going on here?

    I purchased OT back in Feb 99. ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    I purchased OT back in Feb 99. For the first 18 months I broke even. Over the next year I realised that discipline is very very important. I then did quite well and was making more per hour with OT than I was at work. Then I went silly and lost my discipline and hence my money. I am know diciplined and patient and doing well again. AT times I have had visitors while using Bankers and their comment usually is that they wouldn't have the self control to operate the program in the profitable way that I do. I agree with Peter H. I do not want the ACCC to remove a financial cornerstone from my portfolio. Stopping the software updates would as detrimental to my situation as purchasing and ineffectively using the software has been to others.

    In reply to Bankers User...... ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    In reply to Bankers User.............
    Yes you are right in saying it is not illegal to download data from TAB sites...
    But you misunderstood....
    What is illegal is manipulating, scraping, copying etc. someone else's data into a third party software eg. Bankers Choice, and on-selling this software....
    Please take the time to read the copyright information on the NSW TAB site for clarification of this....
    I personally have spoken to the TAB legal teams and they have confirmed that Offtrack/Bankers Choice is not affiliated with them nor have they the authorisation to use the data the way they do....
    It does not take a BA or a Masters to read the copyright provisions on the TAB web sites....
    Trev

    i purchased offtrack in 3 year ...john kelly -- 04/03/02

    i purchased offtrack in 3 years ago and was transferred to bankers choice. I believe the programme gives information that with intelligent interpretation can yield profits. discipline and a professional approach is necessary. i want my access and updates restored. i would like to get in touch with jim champion and rhonda dixon

    after having read thru all the ...COLIN THOMSON -- 04/03/02

    after having read thru all the comments several key points keep springing to mind after reading the comments of happy successful users of the programme like myself
    the need for very strong selfdiscipline to only bet on races where all parameters and criteria are met no exceptions
    patience to wait for above conditions to be met,
    and not chase races to catch up after a loss
    understandind that the programme does not select you do.you need to build up your experience and
    interpretation of late movements this should be started with dry runs and then started with small
    bets and increased slowly,reverting back to dry runs if you have ongoing problems
    analysis of your bets so you can eliminate errors
    evaluate trends and form some criteria of your own to increase your returns
    the system is not 100 percent correct all of the time sometimes all criteria has been met and still tou experience a loss however the results do stack up if you have patience and discipline
    for this calender year my results have been
    place bets 196/301 at 2.46 divy thats 65 percent
    trifectas 64/298 at83.27 divy very profitable
    if you are not the sort of person who after taking two straight losses that weren't your
    fault and then wait 1.5 hours before placing another bet which meets the criteria then either you should learn to be or you shouldn't be using the programme
    while i beleive it is fair for the accc to stop the marketing and sales of the programme while investigating the possible misrepresentation of it ,and the possible refunds depending on their findigs.i beleive the continued access use and updating of the current version should be available to all satisfied paid up members who do not want a refund .
    why should i and my family be deprived of the income source i have paid for and spent time learning and refining

    Look at the date on the Znet p ...Martin Wheeler -- 04/03/02

    Look at the date on the Znet page - it is Aug,01. I think this is BC's way of saying "Get Lost Suckers!" I have written my own software so I am okay but I feel very sorry for the rest of you.

    Have been a member for nealy t ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    Have been a member for nealy two years having paid $10,000.00 and have had no profit to speak about the problems that i have encountered are to numerous to list some are down loads from the server, program faults, etc. Was sold the program as an investment, that i could infact make a living from this.What a take.I would love to get my hard earned money back if it was possible????

    This web page is a set-up this ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    This web page is a set-up
    this page is designed for people who bought offtrack and no longer have access to bankers choice. so i do not understand why bankers choice clients are bothering to post messages, after all,
    bankers choice keeps claiming they have nothing to do with offtrack.
    why is it that when the bankers choice name took over the offtrack name they continued to support all clients, now out of the blue bankers choice is snubbing off offtrack clients? i would like bankers choice to explain to us the reasons why since this web page is their idea. show some professionalism instead of rubbing salt into the wound.

    So what happens now.I stuggled ...Anonymous -- 04/03/02

    So what happens now.I stuggled for 2 yrs to get this right and just when i get it sorted out it may be taken away.I never really lost,just broke even, that was untill six months ago.Now i'm starting to make money,i feel i've been cut off at the knee's, like a sportsman thats trained for 2 yrs and then told he cann't compete.It's all been said don't look for a bet it will hit you in the eye.I to used to look for a bet,panic if i lost,not any more, ignore the loss and carry on.You may have to wait till the next day,or the day after,but you will win more than you loss.So how long will this take to be resolved,do we just sit and wait,or what.

    looks like i have done my mone ...Emilio -- 04/03/02

    looks like i have done my money ,i can tell you this dose not work ,i have tried for about 2 years with no luck, could some one please let me know if there is any way of getting my money back
    please email me
    thank you

    Jim Champion or Rhonda Dixon. ...j kelly -- 05/03/02

    Jim Champion or Rhonda Dixon. Please supply e-mail for frustrated "non-idiot".

    love my Offtrack and Bankers C ...Anonymous -- 05/03/02

    love my Offtrack and Bankers Choice. What is going on here.
    Spending 5 months every day for 2 hours studying the info and teachings and working on a criteria with enormous self discipline without even a bet, certainly helped me.
    I have never had a free lunch, and do not expect because I pay for a software program that it is a license to make money. If it is to be it is up to me. Even when in lessons my strike rate was above what was stated. I had no doubt that with a little effort I could achieve what I wanted with the material provided.
    Bear in mind I am not a gambler and no nothing about horses.
    Will be bitterly disappointed if my program is removed from my availablity. I so look forward to it. Such a pity for those of us who followed through that all this is happening.
    Thank you Bankers Choice for allowing me to continue with my program. I am a very grateful participant.

    Original add that appeared in ...Bankrupt Punter -- 05/03/02

    Original add that appeared in Best Bets.
    Cash Flow Business
    $6,000 per month*tax free*take advantage of our live demonstration
    No selling,not M.L.M. 6 hrs per week to earn an axtra income from home,$1,000 to $3,000 per week
    For a free corporate brochure call
    OFFTRACK 0800 448-261

    i have been using bankers choi ...geoffrey lloyd wood -- 05/03/02

    i have been using bankers choice for some time now and have had success.
    look if you are unable to operate the programme,start training. this program works.
    stop blaming, bc for your incompetence

    geoff wood n.z happy punter.

    I have had Offtrack for 4 year ...Broke Investor -- 05/03/02

    I have had Offtrack for 4 years and yet to make ONE Dollar

    I have used Offtrack for Three ...CONNED INVESTOR -- 05/03/02

    I have used Offtrack for Three years. What I have made I have given back PLUS

    After making many comlaintes I ...Anonymous -- 05/03/02

    After making many comlaintes I asked for my money back and was refused WHY!

    I can not find any one that ha ...Pipe Dream -- 05/03/02

    I can not find any one that has consistently made Money Win punting Gallops with this Software package for any considerable time period.

    I have made nothing in two yea ...Dave -- 05/03/02

    I have made nothing in two years operating the program all ways.

    Money Back or better still sho ...Simple Solution -- 05/03/02

    Money Back or better still show everybody how to make money with the program.

    Let us see Offtrack/Bankers Ch ...Easy Solution -- 05/03/02

    Let us see Offtrack/Bankers Choice in NZ operating on a live race meeting and making what they claim the program makes. Front up to back your product.

    Program has been for sale for ...KC -- 05/03/02

    Program has been for sale for NZ$2,000 in Tauranga paper.

    How come those of you who are ...Angelique Combrink -- 05/03/02

    How come those of you who are enjoying the program knew what you were getting into?
    Perhaps you were told the truth?
    I was not and that has made me very angry. Its not a mere couple of hundred bucks thrown away on a stupid investment. I would walk away then. But I cannot and will not walk away from this. They lied and that's that. If I had known up front what was what and that it was not a get rich quick thing, then its a different story. Its not sour grapes and I am not a stupid idiot ANYMORE! Some of us have been conned. So how much are you making then? Have you left your day jobs and supporting your families generously. Remember the flashy yachts and trips, going on holiday. Someone posted a copy of the ad that got him. Now tell me are you all making about $6000 a month? I was told I could get double that. There is apparently a couple in Queensland who are earning $250 000. a year. Is this just another lie? They apparently work every day and all day.
    I do not believe that the ACCC or any law would prevent customers to not be serviced and given updates by the company. That would be wrong, however, those of us who are unhappy should be refunded. I did not know what I was getting into because I was not told everything there was to know. The reason they don't guarentee is because they can't. I just wish I had not been gullable.
    So I wish those of you luck because that's what this is, just luck! And that's gambling.
    By the way, I have been blocked from entering the web site to bankerschoice. I still own the program. They have not refunded me. This means that they must know that I am taking action against them. They are just proving to me what they are really made of, so be careful. Have you checked out the website lately?
    So does anyone have a contact number for Bankerschoice and their location?

    Comin suckers, like the old sa ...roman -- 05/03/02

    Comin suckers, like the old saying goes. There stood an open door to a kings cross strip bar with a pimp by it showing the way to the promised land. fortunately at 16 I knew the difference be it instinctively. But at the ripe old age of 24 allowed myself to get completely pulled in by easy money. Come in suckers. Said the sleazy smiling yet lying pimp. A land of faulty product with a poor excuse for training and support awaits. Very similar to my experience in kings cross. But this time i smiled forked over 6000 clams and led the way myself.

    To my surprise the dam thing showed signs of working. Win some lose some, still up absolutely no compensation for your outlay or time involved.
    Then the program stuffs up. What? Hello Bankers boys, Hello. No response. Mnnnn. Email. OK. "Oh sorry correspondance is only done via email." OK no worries. After all this thing looks like it might start paying out soon.... Bull dust... 4months later. Getting confident enough to actually start putting money on the races hahaha.
    one week the program stuffs up again. They own me. I own nothing. Now there is is no more responses to my email. No more upgrades. Even a new password on there website which doesnot allow me access.

    Thankyou bankers choice you cant even satisfy a person who can successfully use your program.
    Bastards. But dont worry I always get my money back.

    Offtrack/BC address from anoth ...Anonymous -- 05/03/02

    Offtrack/BC address from another web site if anyone is interested.

    Suite F11, Redwing Plaza
    47 Ashmore Road
    Bundall QLD 4217 (Gold Coast)
    support@bankerschoice.com.au

    Apparently they share the same office as www.sovereignsoftware.com.au more betting software and some of the same Offtrack employees.
    Sovereign Software also uses support@bankerschoice.com.au as one of its email addresses.

    One final thing, how strange that people posting messages on this web page claiming they are doing very well with the software but does not share their criteria with the people who are struggling?
    They can't be using Offtrack/BC's criteria (which one)because none of them work. I'm still using their criteria and I'm still losing and that's still with paper trading.

    If Sovereign Software is the n ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    If Sovereign Software is the next link in the chain (after Bankers Choice, Offtrack, Acepark and Solutions Software - my, they have been busy over the past couple of years!), then I suggest you try the following telephone number for them: 07 5531 8755.

    It looks like their scam is finally beginning to unravel. See how they run!

    The class action line starts a ...Price Miller Curtin and Assoc -- 06/03/02

    The class action line starts at the bottom end of NZ and all the way to Perth WA
    Are you in it?

    I bought Offtrack. I have los ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    I bought Offtrack. I have lost money with it and really want my money back. Being paid my investment would be wonderful. I have invested a lot of time and money into a bad investment that I was lead to believe was profitable.

    When will you realise that all ...Jon -- 06/03/02

    When will you realise that all the Offtrack program does is tell you how money has been bet on animals at certain times before a race starts. It does show when money is placed and if the people that put it on WIN, then so do you. If the animal doesn't do what these punters think it will do, is that the programs fault or theirs? The program just shows where money was bet. Most times these bets will run a place. The big punters are putting the money on for the WIN. Don't blame the program for being wrong, because the program is always right. The money did go on those animals. The animal doesn't know that it is supposed to run 1st. That's RACING. The program delivers pure data, all you have to do is find something out of the ordinary. Just be patient and it will work. The otherside of the coin is the way some people market the program. Sometimes people say things that are not true. I don't think that Offtrack is the first or the last company to do that. Some have said that they were "bullied" into buying the program. If that is so, then blame yourself, not a salesman trying to make a quid. All said and done, we are all responsible for our own actions. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

    WELL SAID JON. PATIENCE AND SE ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    WELL SAID JON. PATIENCE AND SELF DISCIPLINE ARE A VIRTUE, EVEN IF YOU ONLY BET (INVEST ON 1 OR 2 EVENTS PER DAY/SITTING)

    But the software has too work ...Martin Wheeler -- 06/03/02

    But the software has too work first. I agree that working out the right bet is hard work that takes time, dedication and patience. But if the software is not working because the company has done a runner then you are out of business. And that is the current situation. Thoses that are being successful need to get themselves into a position where they are not dependent on a fly-by-night operation.
    I have done this by writing my own and now I do have the freedom that BC talks about

    Has anyone heard of the B.D.R. ...Chris -- 06/03/02

    Has anyone heard of the B.D.R.S. programe.
    It comes out of Melbourne.It is a more soffisticated version of offtrack.

    "Reading Everyone's Comme ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    "Reading Everyone's Comments Again"
    The software backing Offtrack/Bankers Choice is the same software behind most share trading programmes in the world today. Any proffessionl person knows the data downloaded from share trading programmes are not live, it is always at least two minutes behind. If you want live you pay a lot of money to have this. Once again I say the people using Bankers Choice are not following the programme correctly. We find Bankers Choice brilliant. You can make three hundred dollars a day without a problem. Of course you have to sit & wait for the correct information to appear. Paper trading is not the way to go. We love Bankers Choice and would recommed it to proffessional punters anywhere. Investing in anything is gambling, don't delude yourselves. Look at how many people loose with the share market or throw in Enron for an example. You have to work at this, if everyone could make some of the examples quoted on this forum not one person in Australia would have to work; I don't go out to work however can live quite well with what I have here and I do know other people that do the same thing to reach this stage they have put in the hours like us. At no stage were we ever told we would have our funds back in five weeks, had we been told that probably wouldn't of bought the programme. We bet on race horses many years before this programme came along I've seen every punter in the book believe me Bankers makes the betting life a lot easier. Follow the rules and you will make money, most importantly only bet ten percent of your pool, if you have three losses stop and come back the next day. If you have three wins first up stop and come back the next day. Also with computers you have to keep upgrading have a good ISP provider that is very important not just for Bankers but anything. There are some people with computers that just can't download any information correctly at all. One other thing you can download any TAB information without having Bankers. We have TAB accounts in three states & don't need any software to get into the TABS. We hope Bankers run forever.
    Jim Champion & Rhonda Dixon

    If anyone from BC is monitorin ...j kelly -- 06/03/02

    If anyone from BC is monitoring these posts, and I'm sure they will be, it seems to me the fair and honourable solution, as far as I am concerned, would be to offer upgrades at a price, reflecting the fair costs of programmer time to write the upgrade etc.
    We can't stop the TAB websites from changing from time to time. I have invested a lot of time (over 3 years)and some punting money to finally make the programme profitable, and I resent that final ownership and control is out of my hands. The present situation will not be good for the principals of Bankers Choice in the long run.

    Bankers is still available usi ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    Bankers is still available using victorian data source.Do as I do and use this in conjunction with TAB sites. I am happy to use the programme but very pissed off that downloads have been removed for OT purchasers.If this is not resolved then I will join the chorus baying for justice! All I want is to be able to use the info BC was providing and that I paid good money for.

    I can see that there are there ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    I can see that there are there are people who have not been successfull with Offtrack/Bankers Choice and thats their business to follow up their complaints, but there are others such as myself who have worked out how to run the system successfully and now find ourselves not able to update .
    I took a while to come to grips with Bankers Choice but I am now very pleased with the system and hopefully will be able to continue - somehow????

    Just shows you what a poor ser ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    Just shows you what a poor service Bankers provides. I only got the new version today and have to wait for the "key" to continue.
    I know it won't be today. They haven't bothered to email everyone and tell them that they have been delayed in getting on with it. They don't care. What is going to happen in 10 to 20 years from now, or is this a fly by night thing. I think so.
    I want my money back and I am glad that some of you are getting it right. You must have know what you were getting into.
    I didn't, they lied and therefore I want justice but feel that the owners of this software are entitled to updates.
    As for paying for updates, what, that'll be the day. Is $10 000. for this software cheap to some?

    Criteria that works...C'mon. O ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    Criteria that works...C'mon.
    Out of all these postings not one supposedly successful "investor" has mentioned the criteria they use or how much they "invest" on each race.
    It looks like they are just as loyal and honest as Bankers Choice / Offtrack.

    Criteria that works...C'mon. O ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    Criteria that works...C'mon.
    Out of all these postings not one supposedly successful "investor" has mentioned the criteria they use or how much they "invest" on each race.
    It looks like they are just as loyal and honest as Bankers Choice / Offtrack.

    Hi Rhonda Dixon I would like t ...Steve -- 06/03/02

    Hi Rhonda Dixon

    I would like to make contact with you about the programme (Bankerschoice) and cleam more info from you.

    Steve

    it is quite obvious what is go ...russel -- 06/03/02

    it is quite obvious what is going on here, they are getting ready to do another midnight run. it is irrelevant whether the software works. it has taken me a long time to get the program to deliver a modest profit, certainly nowhere near the figures they quoted in the sales pitch. the bottom line is that they have withdrawn all future access from people who have paid for that access. if this mob of crims were so above board, why have they changed their name so often and why have they not complied with previous accc rulings. all those who are singing the praises of ot/bc need to realise that whether you make the thing work or not pales into insignificance compared to what these mongrels are now doing. they are so contemptious that they have made a joke about it in this forum. yes, price, miller and curtin are behind all the previous names including ot/bc. what robert james price, william greg millar and ronald james millar need to realise is that cannot hide forever. somebody has already posted their addresses, vehicle rego's and that of their families on another web forum. i live along way from qld, (and fortunately can afford to walk away and treat it as one of lifes bad experiences) but i am sure some disgruntled ex user (who needs the money) will one day decide to take the law into his or her own hands. i suggest you 3 criminals use the money to have eyes inserted in the backs of your heads.
    in the meantime every person who has now lost access needs to register their complaint with the accc. every person who has put money into this dishonest mob is now being treated with utter contempt so it is of little benefit whether the program works or not. if you have bc with access it will only be a matter of time before you loose it, history does repeat itself.

    G'day Russell Now that we know ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    G'day Russell

    Now that we know bankers choice is winding up...as a guess, hence now selling www.sovereignsoftware.com.au from the same office and www.dynamicsharetrader.com.au. This info also came from another web site. And discovered Ron Curtin is a manager for www.transvisiondata.com.au another racing package. The internet is a wonderful thing. I'd say bankers choice is sitting back laughing their heads off watching this web page. If they took it seriously they would have answered alot of unanswered questions from some of these baaaad postings.

    READ THIS! no matter how you f ...Bruce -- 06/03/02

    READ THIS! no matter how you feel about the success of O/T we have been cut off from down loads from NSW (try it & see).Vic data is still working but for how long? I have requested a new password but still no reply, nor do I expect one. I think BC are probably trying to distance themselves from the OT name.
    Check out the ACCC web site - www.accc.gov.au
    The trial starts 2 September 02.
    I would be interested to know who the "winner" was for the prize offered as the result of a questionaire closing April 30, 1999, drawn 1 May 99 - winner to be notified thereafter! The all expenses paid holiday for two was "to the beautiful Gold Coast(valued at $5,000)". WAS it any of YOU?
    We have all expressed our displeasure at the treatment we have received both in the past & now as an outcome of someone registering a complaint with the ACCC and it would seem to me that some of the sales practices were a bit dodgy but that is now in the past and we all need to look at what is going to happen after the trial. Firstly, I would suggest that we have some form of contact with each other in the case of those of us who feel we should receive some form of compensation. This site is too open. My email address is alligator@ozemail.com.au

    WHAT A SNAPSHOT The idiot who ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    WHAT A SNAPSHOT

    The idiot who posted the previos message BAD LADEN (really, what sort of a person would use that for a name) prompted me to post this. I can not use my real name as some of you would probably like to hurt me.

    FACT - BANKERS CHOICE IS NO LONGER FOR SALE.
    FACT -
    FACT - BANKERS CHOICE MANAGEMENT DOES NOT WANT TO DO OFFTRACK INVESTMENTS DIRTY WASHING ANYMORE.
    FACT - PEOPLE THAT HAVE WORKED FOR OFFTRACK NOW WORK MOSTLY FOR TRANSVISION DATA, A COUPLE AT SOVEREIGN SOFTWARE, ONE AT BANKERS SUPPORT, SOME AT HAMLYN CREST AND OTHER HORSE RACING RELATED BUSINESSES ON THE GOLD COAST.
    THEY DO NEED TO MAKE A LIVING. A lot of people move to the Gold Coast and find it hard to get work. That is why they end up working for these companies, USUALLY FOR A SHORT PERIOD. SO THEY TELL LIES MAKE A FEW SALES GET PAID AND THEN **** OFF. The staff turnover is enormous. NOT THAT IT'S AN EXCUSE, MORE LIKE A PROGNOSIS. I was sucked in by the EARN HUGE COMMISSION, ONLY WORK 20 HRS A WEEK. IT WAS ACTUALLY 40-50 HOURS A WEEK FOR A $300 RETAINER.
    MY UNDERSTANDING OF THIS 'POWER PLAY' IS IF YOU BOUGHT BANKERS CHOICE FROM MCGREGOR WHELAN THEN YOU DONT HAVE A PROBLEM.
    IF YOU BOUGHT OFFTRACK THEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
    I LEFT OFFTRACK AFTER SEEING PEOPLE (STAFF MEMBERS) GET TREATED LIKE DIRT.
    QUEENSLANDERS ARE GENERALLY NICE, FRIENDLY PEOPLE. MOST OF THE STAFF HAVE TRIED REALLY HARD TO SELL FAIRLY AND THE SUPPORT PEOPLE HAVE DONE MIRACLES WITH SOME AND HAD NO CHANCE WITH OTHERS.
    THE GARBAGE THAT COME FROM ELSEWHERE TO PROFITEER SHOULD BE DEPORTED.

    I received my access to Banker ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    I received my access to Bankers but I don't think my threat was heard as either they are just thick skinned, or the emails are automated to answer eventually. I am not taking the program as seriously as before. It made my life a misery like you won't believe. My marriage has suffered dearly because of these people. We are entitled to upgrades as long as we own the software. I do not believe that I will ever be able to recover the lost money spent.
    Yes, why don't the winners using this program devulge their secrets.
    Keep an eye on this site and see what will happen. The best thing to do is to report the running wolves to the ACCC, that way we will be united. I have posted a few strong messages on this posting site and will continue to have my say. I felt so alone and stupid while trying to use this program. I would fetch my husband from his crappy day job. He would carefully ask me if I "played" the horses today and would have to EXPLAIN why I had lost money. He would say, but other people are making money, What are you doing wrong. I would love to know too. This $11 000 spent on this was his money. Imagine where that puts me? We have had hard lives and respect money and what it can do for you. It took a year to fall to our knees and accept puchasing these programs. They would call me every three months to buy it and I said no the last time until they got new blood to lie big time. Its too late now,the spirit is gone, I know how to use the programme but will not put anymore of my husbands hard earned money back into the TAB. How do I make $11.00 earn me $11 000 in 8 weeks?
    I have written to them complaining above board, without being rude and still nothing. Their customer service sucks. Why can't we just phone them? Maybe they just don't know how to answer the phone anymore, ha ha ha, I have lost count as to how many names they call themselves now. Have you seen the latest story about them? They can keep operating until their court case in September, I bet they are still advertising and telling lies.

    WHAT A SNAPSHOT , YOU ARE A BR ...Anonymous -- 06/03/02

    WHAT A SNAPSHOT , YOU ARE A BRAVE PERSON to acknowledge what type they are really about. I know that they hire and fire like crazy and that there are a small few who can and have helped the "lost" to see what is going on in the program. I got suckered into Dynamic Share Trader too, but the training was appaling after Colin was told to leave. He had a great personality even though it was taking a long time to get anywhere. After that it was dwon hill and that is when I sniffed a stink going on.

    ARTIST, you must learn.... The ...Martin Wheeler -- 07/03/02

    ARTIST, you must learn....
    There are no hard rules to making money with BC. What works for 1 person will not work for another. So you have to work it out for yourself. As some of the emails say you have to stick at it. And for most people that is a long time. The problem with BC is that you can not save the results, nor can you set it up to download the day's racing automatically. So it makes it very hard, and laborious to learn. That is why I have made the effort to write my own version using Excel. The improvement has been great. But because the picking method has to be personalised I cannot help you there. But if you have excel 2000 or XP I can help you with the actual software.

    What gets me is these people a ...Anonymous -- 07/03/02

    What gets me is these people are either incredibly stupid or incredibly smart. I have had the Offtrack software for about 8 months and so far have made no money from it but, I have to say I still believe that out of all the 'dodgy' racing software out there this one is probably one of the best - and I was willing to 'keep trying'. I also have three friends who, had they seen me make a go of it would have gone out and brought it too. So with abit of 'geniune' support and getting me up and running they would have had three more sales that they didn't have to work for.

    I guess that puts these idiots that lied to us in the incredibly STUPID basket.

    I always thought one of the first rules of sales was to treat your customers right and then you can sit back and wait for all the referrals and repeat business to come rolling in. Surely there is alot more money to be made in the LONG RUN, with this kind of approach. I wouldn't have thought that lying to you customers was ever a good way to go - no wonder these peoply are continually on the run. You have to feel sorry for them - what sort of lives can they really have, continually looking over there shoulder, running from one scam to another. You know what they say - WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND and I KNOW that they will get there's sooner or later. Rest easy boys!!!????

    PS People beware - you have to know that anyone can post messages on here, all these so called 'winners' that are posting messages are probably none other than the very PRATS that took our money and lied to us in the first place.

    I have had the program for abo ...Mike Youens -- 07/03/02

    I have had the program for about 10 months without any success but getting better all the time. After reading all the positive comments from
    other investors I have been able to pick up the missing link that, for me, was holding me back.100% success rate tonight and it is really so obvious I can't understand how I hav't noticed
    it previously, after spending hours and hours trying to beat the system.I now want to see the program allowed to trade and for BC to update our
    progams that we've paid a lot for.

    So Mr Mike Youens, What is the ...Anonymous -- 07/03/02

    So Mr Mike Youens,

    What is the missing link or are you like the rest of the New Zealanders on this site who claim to be doing well but cannot prove it?
    If you or others who are claiming to be successful gave us the missing link we wouldn't be in this predicament.

    Surfer

    Hi Guys, It me again felicity_ ...Bankers User -- 08/03/02

    Hi Guys,
    It me again
    felicity_edu@hotmail.com
    If you don'y believe me ask the TAB's to take action against these people. Some people have said that's illegal to 'scrape' off TAB website. It is simply not true, If the programme uploaded information and them downloaded it to you in 'a revised manner' that would be illegal. If this was the case then the software would be running today. The programme logs on directly from your PC via your ISP to the TAB web server. It then delivers to you the info at varying intervals. This is not illegal. If it was do you think these people would br in business over 3 years later? I'll let you make up your own mind.
    Some people will do anything to undermine something they can't master.

    Felicity, Ms Educational Web D ...Anonymous -- 08/03/02

    Felicity, Ms Educational Web Designer.

    You too obviously haven't contacted the TAB legal teams or read the NSW TAB copyright. Go to the NSW TAB web site. Click on 'Terms of use' at bottom of main page. Go to the heading "Interllectual Property Rights". Go to paragraph 1,2 and 3.

    I don't have a problem with the software, it does work. What I am annoyed with is the way they lied to me to get me to sign the dotted line, the lack of support and training I received and finding out through the TAB's that they are not affiliated with OT/BC after all.

    Felicity, Ms Educational Web D ...Anonymous -- 08/03/02

    Felicity, Ms Educational Web Designer.

    You too obviously haven't contacted the TAB legal teams or read the NSW TAB copyright. Go to the NSW TAB web site. Click on 'Terms of use' at bottom of main page. Go to the heading "Intellectual Property Rights". Go to paragraph 1,2 and 3.

    I don't have a problem with the software, it does work. What I am annoyed with is the way they lied to me to get me to sign the dotted line, the lack of support and training I received and finding out through the TAB's that they are not affiliated with OT/BC after all.

    Jim Champion Rhonda Dixon Pl ...Chris -- 08/03/02

    Jim Champion Rhonda Dixon Please email me. Just about got it right.

    Peter I'm with you I think the ...Anonymous -- 08/03/02

    Peter
    I'm with you I think the ACCC should be held liable for taking Bankers away from us. It is a serious piece of software not a toy. I certainly see it as an investment. We have to pay for all our software this is no different..
    Rhonda Dixon

    Don't take BC away from the pe ...Anonymous -- 08/03/02

    Don't take BC away from the people who want it.
    I agree. However, I do not believe that the ACCC or any law would allow those of you who are successfull punters to be without the service that this company promises to provide. I want a refund because I am not a punter and was lied to. Why should i sit with a program that does not work for me.
    I do recall a part in the "Welcome to BC " and it goes like this.... " with Bankerschoice the hard work is done for you....".
    Why am I working so hard this way and that? Winning some and losing some and then all of it?
    This was advertised as an Investment, it is not.
    I hear someone say that this software is not a toy.
    $10 000 is not Monopoly money either!!!!

    Story by Glen Lyon I have bee ...Glen Lyon (the real one) -- 08/03/02

    Story by Glen Lyon

    I have been using Offtrack/Bankers Choice (OT/BC) for 12 months. I started with $50.00 in the TAB account. 12 months later I now have $37.00 and yes, during the 12 months I have injected hundreds of dollars.

    I don’t know what it is but I still believe the programme works, even though I have not made any money out of it…I don’t give up easy. You don’t cut your nose off to spite your face. We are talking about throwing away a $10,000 programme.

    I tried for months to get support and help but no one was returning my messages, either phone or email. At the end of last year I heard in the media ACCC had injunctions against OT. It clicked…no wonder I wasn’t getting any support!

    Hey presto; BC appears - same software, different logo. OK, I was confused at first but everything was falling into place. So I thought beauty, I can now get some support, but no. Still no one would reply to my messages.

    So I thought well, if no one is going to support me and provide help it leaves me with no option but to ask for a refund, for obvious reasons, some of which are also mentioned in the ACCC’s injunction. I emailed BC on the 16th December 2001 and finally got a response from BC and it was not a pretty one. Soon after this I found that certain individuals were impersonating me on the web and it’s still happening on this web page, insinuating that I am responsible for all sorts of things. I have reported it to the appropriate authorities and it’s being taken care of.

    So I don’t understand. BC says they have nothing to do with OT and yet they gave us access to BC as a member – but they still won’t provide support. Now I’ve been locked out of BC web site because I didn’t purchase the software from BC, it was originally purchased from OT. Even though, as an OT customer they gave me an upgrade of OT, now called BC. There seems to be 2 rules, one for OT, one for BC, although it is the same product, just different logo.

    I’ll try again next week to get a new login and password. OK it might fail because of my email on the 16th December 2001 askin for a refund, because of the lies and lack of support not because of the software. I still support the software; it just doesn’t make the money the sales reps claimed.

    For those BC employees who have read this posting, could you please send me a new login and password to my new email address: impersonated@optusnet.com.au. My old address, montessaheights@optusnet.com.au, was being abused.

    For everyone else, I’ll keep you posted.

    P.S. I would like to thank the ex-employee who helped me earlier this year in their own time…I may make a dollar yet – if I get access.

    WHO CAN HELP ME TO LOG IN BANK ...mysmartguy -- 09/03/02

    WHO CAN HELP ME TO LOG IN BANKERS CHOICE MEMBER AREA?
    I AM OFFTRACK CLIENT.
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH

    ROSEMARY HEARLE I also have en ...philip -- 09/03/02

    ROSEMARY HEARLE I also have enjoyed using OT and BANKERS. but they are no longer supporting us and have stoped us gaining access to their site and downloads. what is going on when they changed over they promised to support us. not only me but others. NOT HAPPY

    Story Part 2. As we guessed, w ...Anonymous -- 10/03/02

    Story Part 2.

    As we guessed, we have had no response or reply from Bankers Choice (BC) after asking for the new login and password. We sent them an email while they were in their office and we believe they saw a previous posting of ours because they have responded to others.

    So it looks like it's all over for some, this is what happens if you are an honest client who is still trying to get the software to work. BC wonders why people are complaining to the ACCC.

    Not only will Bankers Choice not respond to membership or any other questions, instead they contact Offtrack (OI)/BC members forwarding them sarcastic remarks.

    BC is offering members a choice - either complain to the ACCC asking for a refund or receive the new login/password. However, BC is saying you cannot have both.

    Claiming a refund back from OI should have nothing to do with BC, after all BC is the one saying they have no connections with OI.

    We believe all clients should have access and if there is a so-called refund, well then yes, we understand if BC takes the membership away from those who received a refund. However, that possibility seems a long way away, maybe even impossible.

    It’s a shame BC or OI does not have the integrity, manners or guts to tell all members what is going on.

    Here are some questions members would like to ask BC:

    Is BC still selling the BC software, and if not, how is BC surviving? Because how can you make money by just offering free support?

    Is BC slowly closing down?

    Are you selling another racing ‘investment’ software package?

    Why out of the blue have you locked out certain clients when you said you have nothing to do with OI and their history with the ACCC?

    Can you explain the sudden change of membership sorting?

    If OI clients were accepted as BC members originally and had full access to the BC member’s area, why the sudden change? Doesn’t the fact that they have BC make them a BC member?

    Why can’t members contact BC by phone or in person?

    Why are we getting responses from MRWA when they to cannot be contacted and have a blank web site?

    If OI/BC clients no longer have access to the BC member’s area, does this mean those clients should complain to the ACCC? If not, what is the solution?

    Dear BC, we would appreciate it if you would answer these questions by posting your answers on this web page.

    Remember these questions are asked by OI/BC members to BC staff or management.

    Your response would be appreciated.

    Regards,
    Members

    I believe that bankers choice ...Richie obers -- 11/03/02

    I believe that bankers choice has a wonderfull future and that we are all in a pionerring stage of an incrediable buisness opportunity .The main thing to remember is this is no get rich quick software program it is in my veiw the ultimate betting tool.But thats all it is a TOOL and we must learn to use these new tools and that takes tears and years and out of this will come EXPERIANCE THEN AND ONLY THEN will you see the constant income flow that you want. I have won ie highest wining div.aus $125 --$25pl (SPIN THE WHEEL)trifeca nz$ 30 000-BOXED 6 ANIAMALS @0.5O TOTAL INVEST NZ$60 RETURN =NZ$ 15000 .YES I ADMITT TO LOSING SOME RACES AND THOSE ARE THE RACES I STUDIED TO SEE IF THERE WAS SOME FORENCIC DNA LEFT BEHIND THERE WAS NONE BUT I DID NOTICE THAT THERE WERE UNUASUAL PRICE MOVMENTS THAT I NOW USE TO TELL ME THAT IF I INVEST ON THIS RACE I WIIL LOSE BECAUSE OF EARLY MONEY GOING ON THATS THE SMART MONEY THE BIG PUNTS THATS THE FOOLS MONEY THEY FOLLOW THE GUY ON TV WHO HAS NEVER HAD A BET THE ONLY TIME YOU TAKE NOTICE OF THE TV IS WHEN YOU SEE THE TRAINERS OR JOCKEY THEY KNOW MORE THAN MOST THEN I TURN DOWN THE SOUND AND WATCH BANKERS CHOICE THEN I GET THE BETTING PATTERN S THEN I DECIDE TO BET OR NOT TO BET . I HAVE FOUND THAT THE BEST RESULTS COME WHEN I DONT WATCH THE RACE AS I GET TO EXCITED AND CANT CONCENTRATE AND IF I lose it doesent affect my concentration

    Hamlyn Crest corporation are e ...Kevin Murphy -- 15/03/02

    Hamlyn Crest corporation are exactly the same as the other scum bags, we all thought Phil Hartley was a customer service manager--well he does not exist his real name is Stu Bennet. George Luckhart is the alledged owner but you will find another false name being used. Any other scammed Hamlyn Crest customers email me with your views and I also want to advise you of some prime viewing coming to your screens shortly.

    Ok I was ripped off by them to ...barry boyal -- 16/03/02

    Ok I was ripped off by them to. I can see by using the programme ( and I spent hours trying) that its possible to pick winners but in reality its just to unrealible. I feel they have misled a lot of people and whether or whether not their intentions were good a lot of people have lost a lot of money. We purchased in good faith its time they returned our money, they havent keep their end of the deal. Does anyone know if things are progressing in this direction or who to contact regarding further info.

    I have used the Offtrack progr ...Anonymous -- 16/03/02

    I have used the Offtrack programme on and off since I purchased it some three yrs ago. I never had any interest at all in horse racing or betting prior to purchasing and still know very little about the industry.
    Initially I had some difficulty making any profit from it but I perservered as I had spoken to a number of other people who told me they had learned how to make a good return using it. After doing paper runs for about 3 mths myself, I began to make steady profits. I kept records of all the races I looked at and then spent time analyising results. The programme does not tell you which runner to pick - just information to help you see where the professional punters are putting their money.
    It takes time to learn what not to pick, you need to have a mind good at analysing information, paitence to wait until the right criteria appears in the graphs and discipine not to pick any runner in a race if it looks promising and you have just lost a race or two. It appears from the letters on here that those that have not had success with the programme have not yet learned how best to interpret the information the programmes supplies. It also sounds as if the current marketers of the programme may not be providing the training neccessary for people to gain success and that is a real shame and this should be addressed.
    I learned some time after I purchased the programme that a friend of mine had also bought the programme. I shared with him the things I found had worked for me and he tells me he is now getting a 20% return on his bets on the dogs.
    I am still learning and have no doubts that eventually I will increase my returns using the programme.
    I will be very upset if the programme is taken away from me, ie closed down by the authorities, and am not refunded for it's inital cost.

    I got the program for $0.00, - ...Anonymous -- 17/03/02

    I got the program for $0.00, - In strict accordance with my policy of never paying for software - burned onto a CD, toyed with it for an hour, then
    pulled the code to pieces with softice and Wdasm89
    dis-assembler. The program is worthless BS contrived and programmed by a wingnut who is clueless. If you have paid a cent (or even more :-)
    for this excrement - my sympathy.

    MESSAGE FROM BANKERS CHOICE 18 ...barry boyal -- 18/03/02

    MESSAGE FROM BANKERS CHOICE 18
    March 2002.
    I have been in contact with BC trying to find out where I stand with my Offtrack software. I sent them an email stating I was informed Offtrack was now BC and wanted to get an upgrade on my software as my programme wasnt running. Heres their reply.....

    Barry
    Go to this site and register your complaint about Offtrack Investments
    not
    giving you what they promised.
    http://www.accc.gov.au/
    You don't get 'lifetime' support from a company that has been shut down
    by
    the ACCC.
    If you think that Offtrack, Bankers (MRWA) and the others are the same
    company then you should do a little bit more homework, and stop
    listening to
    morons who think they know everything.
    You are so far OFFTRACK it's not even funny.
    Bye bye

    As you can see they are wiping their hands of offtrack clients. So weather you are one of the fortunate ones who could make money out of offtrack or not we are all in the same boat we no longer have a piece of software that works.

    barry

    What big liars. I was called f ...Anonymous -- 19/03/02

    What big liars. I was called for over a year to purchase Offtrack. Then one day Peter Knobloch called and told me that OT had merged with another company now called BC and through his lies I purchased the program. So I don't know where tey get off blatantly brushing off people who still want to use the program. Its exactly the same as BC, nothing has changed except the updates tp the program. I stongly feel that they should be exposed on National TV, what do you say?

    TIME TO FIGHT BACK. Those of u ...Angelique Combrink -- 19/03/02

    TIME TO FIGHT BACK. Those of us who have been scammed and lied to have to take matters in our own hands. If we are going to wait for the ACCC or department of Fair trading to do something, with all due respect, we may not get anywhere.
    In numbers we can do something about "OFFTRACK and BANKERSCHOICE". They are the same people.
    We can find a lawyer to hear our cases and get started. Who would be interested in getting their money back? Time to expose them on National TV and stop them from further lies.
    I have read some notes posted here that some people do not want the company to be shut down. What do you think they have done to the ex OFFTRACK customers? Why couldn't they just give those people access to Bankerschoice as it is exactly the same program. They could do it to BANKERSCHOICE users too. They are scam artists and feel nothing for their customers, this is clear. So who wants to join the queue?
    email me.

    Copy and past the following ad ...Anonymous -- 19/03/02

    Copy and past the following address (it's a domain name lookup):

    http://www.cdomain.com/cgi-bin/cdomainpro4.pl?root_allowed=1

    Do a domain search on - bankerschoice.com.au.
    You'll find Bankers Choice's email contact is solutionssoftware, same company involved with Offtrack (If you read the ACCC media release it will show Solutions Software’s relationship to Offtrack).
    So how can Bankers Choice tell their members that there is no relationship with Offtack?

    Ignore Bankers Choice’s address it’s an old one.

    Now do a domain search on - sovereignsoftware.com.au
    Notice the email contact address is bankerschoice.
    So does this mean Bankers Choice shares the same address as sovereignsoftware.com.au?

    Furthermore, how come MRWA (McGregor Ross Whelan & Associates) do not mention their involvement with Offtrack? After all when Offtrack was operating they did say they were involved with MRWA.

    The plot thickens.

    Members

    RE: Why does the plot thicken? ...Green Machine -- 20/03/02

    RE: Why does the plot thicken?
    Do you know something you are not telling us!
    Did OI become BC and then turn into SS? If so, would that not make SS the better of the three?
    Come on name dropper! Have you got what it takes to really tell the truth? Can you keep it to yourself any longer? Wouldn't you like to get it off your chest? Can you? Please let all of us know what you do. Your so good at dropping hints but never come through with the REAL facts.

    I'm a winner with Offtrack. Be ...EX cleaner -- 20/03/02

    I'm a winner with Offtrack. Because I have access to the other programme, BC and didn't have to pay for it. Thank the Lord for freedom of racing programmes. If you don't like the programme then go back to washing dishes. I pay a person to that for me now!

    Is your biggest problem....... ...Puppy Lover -- 20/03/02

    Is your biggest problem...............
    not knowing which race to put some money on?
    I always thought it didn't matter as long as the pool was over $2000. if you look at little doggie races and bet on the one that was favourite about 10 minutes before the race starts you'll find that in most cases it will run either 2 or 3 Sometimes it pays more for the place than the win! I always put $20 on these and it gets me through the week. I must say that when I go on the Saturday horses I don't do as good. But come Monday night I go well. I only go on Monday and Thursday night doggies. sometimes the div goes to just $1 but thats the way it is.

    When Offtrack folded certain e ...Anonymous -- 06/04/02

    When Offtrack folded certain employees went to bankerschoice.com.au,
    transvisiondata.com.au and sovereignsoftware.com.au.

    It's like playing dominos. These companies to are saying their software will make you wealthy and the software helps you make smart investments (sound familiar?).

    They still keep using these come-in-spinner words. It's a bit unethical when there is never a guarantee if you lose when using their criterias...like a refund.

    I have personally owned this s ...Anonymous -- 14/04/02

    I have personally owned this software and it certainly deserves to be burnt.In reguards to Geoff and Rosmary who claim to have success and as Rosmary said herself she has put lots of time into trying to get it to work ,time that could be used at a job or business,but thats 10000 your down to start with and the unearnt unproductive hours you put in.

    ( Remember that they said youd be making at least $4000/week minimum and it had what I was told 90% success).The point is that its false advertising and blatent lying+ the fact they stole the feed of the TAB illegally.Not to mention the company having such a rude arrogant director,Rob Price.Just put 2&2 together.

    Its Ok for me ,I still have many years of making money ahead without dealing with dodgey companys but it certainly isnt fair when older people have been ripped off.I tried hard to make it to work and even studying beforehand but it is just too inconsistent and you have to be doing 2 million things at once in the last minute.Not to mention delays that are common with internet connections.

    CERTAINLY DESERVES EVERYTHING THAT IS COMING TO THEM and thats fine Rosmary and Geoff if you want to keep yours,But for the rest of us,WE want our money back

    I just want my tax free income ...Anonymous -- 29/05/02

    I just want my tax free income back and I really feel sorry for those of you that don't realise the program is only as good as the operator. It doesn't tell you what to do ...your analyze it and you make a decision. Blaming others for your decisions is a bit weak ...I lost money too and learned from that. How else do you make something work when it's your decisions that make it work or not. They just provide a vehicle, you have to drive it and lets face it, there are some bad drivers out there. Where was the ACCC when "CODE XL" was (is) running it's scam. They actually told you what to bet on specifically and they never came in. Now that was a joke! Just give me my key ...I don't need the ACCC making decisions
    for me just because a bunch of people felt hard done by. Can't anybody take responsibility for their own errors of judgement?

    I just want my tax free income ...Anonymous -- 29/05/02

    I just want my tax free income back and I really feel sorry for those of you that don't realise the program is only as good as the operator. It doesn't tell you what to do ...your analyze it and you make a decision. Blaming others for your decisions is a bit weak ...I lost money too and learned from that. How else do you make something work when it's your decisions that make it work or not. They just provide a vehicle, you have to drive it and lets face it, there are some bad drivers out there. Where was the ACCC when "CODE XL" was (is) running it's scam. They actually told you what to bet on specifically and they never came in. Now that was a joke! Just give me my key ...I don't need the ACCC making decisions
    for me just because a bunch of people felt hard done by. Can't anybody take responsibility for their own errors of judgement?

    To Linus Lassiter. I too have ...Mark -- 03/06/02

    To Linus Lassiter. I too have disassembled the program, but have insufficient knowledge to modify the code to avoid the requirement for an entry key. Would you be prepared to help? If so, please send me an email.

    WANT A KEY ???? email ...CRacKed iT -- 08/06/02

    WANT A KEY ???? email keygena@hotmail.com with your name and serial number

    If you have a key generator wh ...Anonymous -- 08/06/02

    If you have a key generator why not allow people to download the key generator?

    i have had offy bankers for pr ...smokey -- 13/06/02

    i have had offy bankers for probably the longest of all 0of you just do this ... wait till the last minute d/load , pros lately are 1000 down ok we see this we go for the place dont be greedy youll get stung in the **** unless you know how to evaluate horse flesh only two plp in aussie can they are ronn papps and larry olsen but be carefull with form analysts. ok now winter is very hard to get targets so if theres no 1000 tail at the last minute dont go.. ok now you almost . not all 1000 tails are the ones this is where you need to practise . ok lets say hores 5 has already 3000 on it at the one minute download you can see the tail, then 0 minute d/load comes theres another 1000 put down on top of the 3000 tail this is a no go this is where you are loseing your money the correct tail to go on is where there is little or no action on the other runners then i minute to go wamo 1000 down tail is up ,it hits you in the face yes this is it yahoo............... and thats the ball game folks .. for the last two weeks the pros have been in action so its been good .. but i urge you all dont bet outside your budget .. softley softley catchy monkey with a mouse trap..........

    i have had offy bankers for pr ...smokey -- 13/06/02

    i have had offy bankers for probably the longest of all 0of you just do this ... wait till the last minute d/load , pros lately are 1000 down ok we see this we go for the place dont be greedy youll get stung in the **** unless you know how to evaluate horse flesh only two plp in aussie can they are ronn papps and larry olsen but be carefull with form analysts. ok now winter is very hard to get targets so if theres no 1000 tail at the last minute dont go.. ok now you are almost there. not all 1000 tails are the ones this is where you need to practise . ok lets say hores 5 has already 3000 on it at the one minute download you can see the tail, then 0 minute d/load comes theres another 1000 put down on top of the 3000 tail this is a no go this is where you are loseing your money the correct tail to go on is where there is little or no action on the other runners then i minute to go wamo 1000 down tail is up ,it hits you in the face yes this is it yahoo............... and thats the ball game folks .. for the last two weeks the pros have been in action so its been good .. but i urge you all dont bet outside your budget .. softley softley catchy monkey with a mouse trap.......... sorry about the comprehension i not well got flu

    Can Jim Champion and Rhonda Di ...Bankerschoice User -- 12/08/02

    Can Jim Champion and Rhonda Dixion please contact me for some tips and anyone else who is having success with the BankersChoice. And also
    to Crackedit,email me .

    Rob Price is now NetGain - see ...Net scammer -- 16/08/02

    Rob Price is now NetGain - see www.netgain.net.au
    Its the same old Offtrack Investments program. Graphs and last minute spike. Even some of his old favourite workers.

    Can anyone give me information ...Anonymous -- 24/05/04

    Can anyone give me information on a horse betting program called eridium. I was one who was Ripped off by Hamlyn Crest to the sum of $8,000 for this program which turned out to be a scam. Has anyone had any success in retrieving money for the program as the company does not exist anymore.

    Can anyone give me information ...Anonymous -- 24/05/04

    Can anyone give me information on a horse betting program called eridium. I was one who was Ripped off by Hamlyn Crest to the sum of $8,000 for this program which turned out to be a scam. Has anyone had any success in retrieving money for the program as the company does not exist anymore.

    i aint buying it! harry nuts -- 30/08/05

    ive just been reading over these comments from a hell off alot of people who have "invested" in these various types of racing/tab software. i'm about half way into being conned into buying this smartmoney package. The way they have these "traing sessions" is amussing! they tell you what you need to look for to make your bets/investments make money for you, fare enough, it could work if you really know what your doing ye! but i'm glade i did some research first, to me it looks like 1 out of say 5 people have had some success with these projects, sorry i mean investment, no sorry gambling... oh im lost already!!! well just from what they have taught me in the training session, if the sorftware package was a horse in a race about to be run then i sure as hell wouldnt be making any bets/investments on that one then would i!!! not with a 1 in 5 chance!!!!! at the end of the day the safest way to earn an honoust days pay is to GET OFF YOUR **** AND GO TO WORK. some people might not beable to work, then thats even more of a reason not to get into these scammes. hold onto what you have, its better than not having it.
    id just like to add something in for the little computer geeks who have made some money! go f__k yourself, not everyone is like you little tossers and it really isnt as easy as these companies have made people believe it to be. go out and get some sun siber freeks.

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