Paedophiles force NineMSN chatroom closure

By Patrick Gray
24 September 2003 12:30 PM
Tags: chat, msn, messenger, ninemsn, abuse, chatroom, irc, child
Australia's NineMSN has announced it will close its chat-rooms in the interests of child safety, effective 14 October.

A spokeswoman for NineMSN told ZDNet Australia  the Australian chat-rooms are among those that will be axed -- both the moderated and unmoderated chat-rooms are to go -- with only "occasional celebrity chats" to remain. The service currently has 300,000 users in Australia alone.

MSN's U.S. chat-rooms will stay but will be shifted to a subscription model to promote accountability. Users will have to pay a subscription by credit card, a move that is hoped will strip them of true anonymity and promote better behaviour.

The cloak of anonymity afforded to Internet chatters has made it a popular way for paedophiles to meet impressionable children. NineMSN's spokeswoman says that's not something the company wants to be associated with.

"In the U.S. they've decided to keep chat but it will become a subscription service," the spokeswoman said. "It will be easier for them to monitor that site and for people to be held accountable."

However it's a different story in Australia and the U.K. -- the services are simply being pulled offline. "In Australia and in U.K. we've made a decision that it's in fact best to close the site altogether," she said. "We think that increasingly chat sites are being misused and we want to ensure people have a safe and enjoyable online experience."

While recognising that the abuse of Internet chat is an industry-wide issue, the spokeswoman said NineMSN believes the move will "make a difference".

Chat channel operators on AustNet, an Australian Internet Relay Chat (IRC) service, strongly disagree. One operator, known as "maddog", told ZDNet Australia  in a chat session that children will simply use other chat technologies and the paedophiles will follow them -- the key is supervision.

"I don't know that closing MSN chat rooms will protect children at all. They'll just move to another form chat, ie IRC or ICQ," he said. "Parental supervision is the only effective way really. Parents wouldn't let their children hang out near pubs or any other area where their safety might be compromised, so why allow it to happen over the Internet?" he asked.

Another operator, who declined to be named, agreed. "IRC will always have a huge base of users... IRC is fast, secure, great for peer to peer file sharing, and it's versatile," they said. "The other thing about IRC is that it's not controlled by a company like Microsoft who can come along and shut it down.... IRC is owned by individuals, not corporations."

A seasoned AustNet chatter, Nitr0, broadly agrees. "Paedophiles will target wherever the children are, so they would go to MSN because it has more kids. If [the kids] start coming on IRC the paedophiles will just follow them," he said. "The only real way to stop paedophiles is to educate our children and supervise their Internet access until they're at a suitable age."

The move to a subscription model in the U.S. was a positive one, he said. "It's a lot easier to stop children going to adults area's if they are registered on the chat network, and their details are verified," he said.

A good idea might be "a children's username which wouldn't have access to where adults go, and you could have a 'childcare' system organised where only specific adults are allowed in that area," he added.

Unlike the operators, nitr0 says the closure might actually make a difference, at least in the short term. "I think it will make people spread around the net more because alot of them just dont know IRC... they know Microsoft chat," he said.

Free, moderated MSN chatrooms will remain in Japan, Brazil, Canada and New Zealand. Unmoderated, subscription based services will remain in the US, Canada and Japan. The changes will not affect MSN Messenger.

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Talkback 13 comments

    As usual, everyone is made to ...Keith Styles -- 24/09/03

    As usual, everyone is made to suffer, due to the behavour of a very few. Unfortunately, the dogooders respond with a kneejerk reaction. They think the way to fix a problem is censorship. As an adult I suggest it is the parents responsibility to control their children's activities. The previous writer has said it all, although I don't agree with his approach to solving the problem. Credit cards are not the solution either. Children can easily obtain their parents credit card information and use it for at least as long as it takes their parents to wake up to their cards misuse. That could be forever for some kids!!!! The heavy handed approach has never worked...Sorry MSN, but you are as dumb as many parents seem to be.

    what i wanna know is what abou ...Anonymous -- 24/09/03

    what i wanna know is what about all the innocent chatters that use msn where are they gonna chat and talk to friends and meet new people?? Just because there are some sick people out there that wanna prey on young kids, the parents of those kids should be the ones to take responsiblity of what their children do on the net. Being a parent and myself a chatter i wouldnt let my children into some of the rooms in the first place.

    Why does it have to be the inn ...Anonymous -- 24/09/03

    Why does it have to be the innocent who always suffer due to sick minded people who prey on the young but once again it should come on the parents as well and i would like to know why Australia which has 300,000 users alone has to suffer come on get a grip and let the aussies
    be able to subscribe there is good out there who follow rules and guidelines.Id join if it was via subscription.come on msn rethink why does oz miss out and america can subscribe a very disappointed Aussie Msn User who adheres to rules and guidelines.

    Sasha I have been an owner of ...Anonymous -- 24/09/03

    Sasha

    I have been an owner of an adelaide chatroom for 2 years now and to think all the hard work we put into making it one of the longest and best chatrooms is about to be killed off because of a few sickos out there isnt fair. We worked hard to keep out the under age and we dont stand for pornogarphy in our room and yet a room of 80 - 100 ppl per night and a community room of 1670 members has to suffer Plz reconsider :(

    why do hundreds of thousands o ...Anonymous -- 24/09/03

    why do hundreds of thousands of chatters have to suffer because of the minority. Yes there are paedphiles out there but if your children are raised properly to be aware of strangers on the net exactly the same as in real life the problem wouldnt be so big. How many of our children are taught not to talk to strangers, what is the difference, they dont close swimming pools , parks or shopping centres where paedophiles also prey on the young.
    But you will close down a chat that is in some form the only social life some people have whether it be due to an illness or just personal choice or single parents stuck at home with small children and no way of venturing out.
    I say if there is way of policing it do so but closing down altogether is not the answer the kids will just go elsewhere and will be followed.

    why do we have to be penalised ...Elaine Sullivan -- 25/09/03

    why do we have to be penalised because some parents cant supervise thir kids properly...passw ord protect your computer, there are ways and means of stopping children from accessing adult sites,and some are free just take the time to look for them..atlot of people will be affected by the closure i know i will.....surely their can be another way of doing this... think about it....

    Ifeel that the New Zealand way ...Bertil Lynden -- 27/09/03

    Ifeel that the New Zealand way is the fairest chat room system.God knows, we pay in so many ways money to ultra-rich corporations.Also remember all PCs have a password faculty to help protect the childern and it is ABSOLUTELY the parents resposibility to warn them about the dangers of cyberspace child molesters.Refuse to allow them to use a PC,unsupervised untill they are 18.If the kids insist, as a last resort callthe police to come to the home and warn to the child it is for the kid's own safety,just as I was warned by my father at 13 to watch live footage documentary on the ruious effect hard drugs have on people (drug addicts).
    Also the whole social/economic system must be made so both parents don't have to work obscenely long hours,keeping them both with preciously little time to lovingly warn their kids,as my father did to me,way back in 1973.

    While I agree that peadofilia ...Anonymous -- 27/09/03

    While I agree that peadofilia has became a problem on the net, it will always be a problem in society, until our legal system starts punishing this filth properly, it is going to be hard to stop it. By closing MSN chat, all they will suceed in doing is redirecting the problem to places with less rescources to fight against it.

    MSN have had the ability to trace a users IP address which in turn, would allow them to locate any person found to be breaking the law. MSN should stay open and work with police and government to help catch these criminals and put them where they should be.

    If MSN got the reputation of being the ones that catch the peadofiles instead of being the ones the handball the the problem to somebody else, they would find that they would have one of the best, most secure services on the internet. I would be that many companies and corporations would love to be associated with a company that has proven itself to be safe and secure for all users.

    If MSN do close on October 14, it will not take long before there is somebody offering an altenitive that is easy to find and use, and with a lot of people out there looking for a new place to chat and meet friends online, it will be a great market place for that.

    with M S N closeing its chat ...Anonymous -- 03/10/03

    with M S N closeing its chat rooms i hope its cutting its throat..its stupid its been after people paying for ages,they dont have a hope theres 1000s of places free even freeserve are keeping there rooms open

    with M S N closeing its chat ...tommy simkins -- 03/10/03

    with M S N closeing its chat rooms i hope its cutting its throat..its stupid its been after people paying for ages,they dont have a hope theres 1000s of places free even freeserve are keeping there rooms open

    The paedophiles have had there ...NOELEENE BURROWS -- 20/10/03

    The paedophiles have had there daily fix taken away from one source but yes there are many , many more. One solution is for PARENTS to take responsibility for what there children are doing on line & who they are chatting to. I have been a host in a number of MSN rooms for a few years now & I have had 14 yr old girls in an Adults only chat room looking for sex!!. No dont get me wrong I am not backing the sickos what I am trying to say is the PARENTS of these "Children" have to start checking on what there kids are viewing and which chat rooms they are actually in!! Yes there are a lot of sickos out there even blokes that are disgusting and rude to adults also.
    Some of the things I have heard, "My God"!!!
    I hosted for approximately 3 1/2 yrs all totally voluntarily, rising at 5 am in the morn to be on line & hosting by 6 have computer running all day and be hosting till 10 or 11 that night depended on how many people were left in the room.
    They taketh MSN away the Sickos' will find another source.
    We need to have hosts of these rooms who are properly trained to deal with idiots and to be paid as well for there services, the abuse that we deal with on line is Unbelievable!!!!!!!
    To have to subscribe is also a good idea because then everyone would have to register eg: DOB, Full Name & Address, phone number & Drivers Licence Number if you do not hold one an 18+ card, but then again the other half just suggested the new "Smart Licence" thats been rumoured to be surfacing and replacing the old, so maybe this is the way to go.

    Paedophiles force Nine Msn chatroom closer Silverwind -- 30/10/05

    These sort of people are the most coniving manipulative sort of waste of space u can come across. They know how to prey on innocent young children. As a result the police have had to resort being children themselves. These paedophiles have to be stopped but closing down a chatroom. Arent we playing into their hands. They will just find another way to get to our innocent children. Yes im a responsible parent my children don't know the password to login to internet. But how many other parents do the same thing but these waste of space or oxygen stealers still get in. Its about time we gave these people stricter penalties of more jail time. Not just probation. These people r the first to cry depression after theyve been caught. This has to stop. We cant read their minds they so cunning its unbelievable. What about the destruction they bring to their families and friends especially when they didnt suspect they where that kind of person. Unfortunately some people of children to these waste of space and find they cant get the support or help to rebuild their lives. But these waste of spaces can. By closing down this website its not going to deter them we need harder and Stricter sentences and penalties. We know our drug rings, petty thieves, Mafiea we know not to get involved with these types but paedophiles r a completly different entity we need to clean up our own backyards first of this crap before we can critise other countries. What can we do to stop them 4 once and 4 all. If we stand up and make more of and outcry to these people and start fighting against this sort of crap we may get somewhere. But being silent is not going to deter them and closing down websites isn't either.....

    im 14. Kay (: Anonymous -- 17/06/07

    Tbh i have MSN myself.
    reet. im not silly enough to chat to people over the net who i clarley dont no its pathetic.
    and if parents are gettin so worried why cant they shut there msn down off there computer.
    i mean ffs its not too much to ask your just caussing more problems. and its stupid.
    if you dont like ure child using msn delted it off ure files and block it.
    or get a keylogger so u no everything and no what your child is talking too.
    i no a few technology for computers and about them so tbh just look for some kind of tracker and there should be no problems if there if remove there fone off them or make shure it can onli comunicate with the numbers you gave them.

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