Group releases Xbox exploit amid MS prosecution threats

A group of Xbox hackers called "Free-X" claim to have broken all security measures on the games console without any hardware modifications whatsoever, prompting Microsoft to threaten a legal attack against its members.

The claimed exploit was posted to a mailing list minutes ago.

Free-X had been trying to negotiate with Microsoft, and was requesting the release of a "signed" Linux boot loader, which would allow Xbox owners to run the open source operating system without any hardware modifications or the exploitation of the console. Microsoft would not negotiate, group members have told ZDNet Australia.

Group representatives reject claims they are encouraging piracy and accuse the software company of failing to protect its game developers' intellectual property. A signed boot loader won't allow the console to run pirated games, whereas the exploit they have developed will. Free-X say piracy is not something they wish to encourage.

"If Microsoft had agreed to sign Linux then it would have been possible... to prevent the illegal use of pirated software," the statement said. "It is a shame that Microsoft appears to not share our concerns about protecting the intellectual rights of those who develop software for their console".

Far from seeing the group's actions as anti-piracy, Microsoft has threatened to come down on them like the proverbial tonne of bricks.

"We do need to inform yourself and this... contact that Microsoft Xbox takes pirating of videogames very seriously," a Microsoft spokeswoman told ZDNet Australia by e-mail. "The protection of our intellectual properties and copyrights, and those of our partners, is a top priority and therefore we reserve the right to pursue and take action against anyone facilitating piracy of videogames".

When the group initially approached ZDNet Australia  several weeks ago it did not disclose its most serious claimed exploit, instead saying that all of the hacks they had developed required the soldering of a few pins on the Xbox motherboard. Free-X now says the console can be modified through software only, and Microsoft has run out of time.

"Today is a very sad day for Microsoft," a statement read. "One month ago, we began an attempt to make contact with Microsoft, we did this because the first software only mod-chip solution was developed and proved working. This solution meant that there was no need to open the XBox anymore".

The only way Microsoft can protect its console from the exploit is to release new firmware or revised Xbox "Dashboard" software, they say.

The Free-X members say they are frustrated by the public's perception that it is trying to blackmail the software giant into releasing the Linux boot loader.

"Since our attempts to contact Microsoft have become public knowledge our team has been accused of attempting to extort or blackmail Microsoft, this is not true as we have made every attempt possible to make contact with Microsoft," a group member said in the statement.

Free-X offered Microsoft a summary of all the exploits it developed, help with securing the console from other attacks, source codes, full confidentiality and further research into Xbox exploits.

"Our team was more than willing to co-operate with Microsoft and would have most likely accepted most of the terms of agreement coming from our discussions," the statement said.

The Microsoft spokeswoman says the group's claims are being "evaluated".

If the claim by Free-X turns out to be true they may be eligible for the US$100,000 prize on offer by Lindows chief executive Michael Robertson for the first group to run Linux on the console without hardware modifications.

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Talkback 75 comments

    This is nonsense. They can't simply use the Xbox however they want. It's not like they own it, they're just leasing. I think Microsoft needs to install cameras that monitor ussage to insure it is used properly. It seems like it is the only way. And whAnonymous -- 04/07/03

    This is nonsense. They can't simply use the Xbox however they want. It's not like they own it, they're just leasing. I think Microsoft needs to install cameras that monitor ussage to insure it is used properly. It seems like it is the only way. And while were at it the ability to freely share ideas, thoughts and programs is obviously a bad idea especially on such a global level. We should get rid of email. If you want your tickets to the internet go talk to the ticket master.

    Absolutely right, Prince. What right has any user got to use their console the way they want? Didn't they know that when they buy their Xbox they also "sign" a licence agreement to only ever run Microsoft approved discs on it? What iAnonymous -- 04/07/03

    Absolutely right, Prince. What right has any user got to use their console the way they want? Didn't they know that when they buy their Xbox they also "sign" a licence agreement to only ever run Microsoft approved discs on it?

    What increadible cheek to think users would ever, ever try to use a product for some other purpose than that expressly permitted by the vendor.

    Got balls these FreeX people, don't they?

    It works, just tested, great work free-x. And im glad it can only work with linux or all these lamers would start pirating xbox games.Anonymous -- 04/07/03

    It works, just tested, great work free-x. And im glad it can only work with linux or all these lamers would start pirating xbox games.

    M$ suck sooo much!! they are so money hungry.. oh well, viva le linux ..Anonymous -- 04/07/03

    M$ suck sooo much!! they are so money hungry.. oh well, viva le linux ..

    This is bad very bad :( The Scene is going to get a lot bigger :(Anonymous -- 04/07/03

    This is bad very bad :( The Scene is going to get a lot bigger :(

    Apparantely Nicholas has no idea what he is talking about.. (no offence, but it is true). Free-x or whatever they call themselves released a "proof of concept" that will allow linux to boot with only software based modifications. This does notAnonymous -- 04/07/03

    Apparantely Nicholas has no idea what he is talking about.. (no offence, but it is true). Free-x or whatever they call themselves released a "proof of concept" that will allow linux to boot with only software based modifications. This does not however mean that someone else will not (probably within a matter of hours/days) release a modified version of that code which will allow any xbe (xbox executable), not just linux, to be launched. This will inevitably encourage more game piracy and will also make it possible for people too scared to open their xbox and modify it with a "mod-chip" to just modify it in this way. Xbox will go the way of the Dreamcast unless Microsoft finds a way out of this predicament. Name a game company that will want to release games on an insecure console knowing full well that they could release it on a different more protected console and receive larger revenues due to less piracy. I believe that this could be the demise of the xbox console in more ways than one, but of course only time will truly tell.

    I knew this would happen.....and I can confirm that this expliot does allow you to play copied games.......see what happens when you ignor the little guy.......he bends the big guy over......lolAnonymous -- 04/07/03

    I knew this would happen.....and I can confirm that this expliot does allow you to play copied games.......see what happens when you ignor the little guy.......he bends the big guy over......lol

    This message is to Bill Gates...I hope you don't think the PS2 is a more "secure" console because anyone can copy any ps2 game that's not burned on a DVD9 disc. The only system that wasn't cracked was the Gamecube but that ended last month whenMega Million -- 04/07/03

    This message is to Bill Gates...I hope you don't think the PS2 is a more "secure" console because anyone can copy any ps2 game that's not burned on a DVD9 disc. The only system that wasn't cracked was the Gamecube but that ended last month when 2 games and tools were released on the internet........face it...there will always be pirates.....and they will always cost the us more money.......I'm afraid to release my software mainstream....because if it ever went big I know i'd have to worry about the same thing. I guess the only way to stop piracy for a long period of time would be to hire the guys that worked for !Bleem because those Playstation Emulation disc they released for Dreamcast were the only thing I have never seen cracked.....and the funny thing about that is it was finally cracked 2 months ago......how many years after the DC died.........

    Well !!!! We all know the only way they have for now is to make protection on the game himslef with encrypted and packed code with checksum and inside it verifying if the original bios is in place and all original unmodofied hd files! ect eSomeone Somewhere -- 04/07/03

    Well !!!!

    We all know the only way they have for now is to make protection on the game himslef with encrypted and packed code with checksum and inside it verifying if the original bios is in place and all original unmodofied hd files!
    ect etc etc

    It's looking like a PC now ..But with a way to check original XBOX and MODIFIED one! now the BALL is in the camp of MS to find way to protecs games if they want to see company stay in the xbox market and if i was BILL ...Holy %$^$^

    I think he will take phone and try to reach best CODER arround the world to severaly stop this as soon as possible!

    This could mean the xbox will follow the dreamcast's fate. But hey Microsoft had there chance. The xbox is certain to fly off the shelves now, and as what was said above the scene is about to get a whole lot bigger. Mr SmithAnonymous -- 04/07/03

    This could mean the xbox will follow the dreamcast's fate. But hey Microsoft had there chance. The xbox is certain to fly off the shelves now, and as what was said above the scene is about to get a whole lot bigger.
    Mr Smith

    Of course every console has been hacked.. that is not the issue here. The PS2 needs a modchip as DID the xbox. The GC has only had a handful of game releases so far and there are no mods for it at this time that I know of (soon though i assume). The Anonymous -- 04/07/03

    Of course every console has been hacked.. that is not the issue here. The PS2 needs a modchip as DID the xbox. The GC has only had a handful of game releases so far and there are no mods for it at this time that I know of (soon though i assume). The playstation 1 was hacked fast, and although u only needed a modchip, or the game shark trick it was enough to deter pirating somewhat. The Dreamcast on the other hand did not require any modifications which is why EVERYONE pirated DC games and also a large reason its exsistence (and software library) was so short. It is the "dummy-proofing" that makes the pirating easy enough for everyone and that is what will be harmful in the long run..

    To correct myself before anyone else does.. I said that the xbox needed a modchip before, which is not entirely true if you wanted to open up the box and write enable the tsop.. but like I said that is only for people who are somewhat technically incliAnonymous -- 04/07/03

    To correct myself before anyone else does.. I said that the xbox needed a modchip before, which is not entirely true if you wanted to open up the box and write enable the tsop.. but like I said that is only for people who are somewhat technically inclined. Not everyone can solder, but everyone can pop a disk in a drive and attach a memory card for the first/only time necessary..

    If you buy a house, you own it, if you buy a car, you own it, if you buy an Xbox, you own it and should be able to do anything you damn well want with it.Anonymous -- 04/07/03

    If you buy a house, you own it, if you buy a car, you own it, if you buy an Xbox, you own it and should be able to do anything you damn well want with it.

    This is a great Public Relations for M$. After all, this approach has worked so well for the RIAA. If you buy a house, you own it... If you buy a car, you own it. If you buy anything from Microsoft... you're a damned fool! "YoAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    This is a great Public Relations for M$. After all, this approach has worked so well for the RIAA.

    If you buy a house, you own it... If you buy a car, you own it. If you buy anything from Microsoft... you're a damned fool!

    "Your potential [to be exploited]... Our passion."

    First of all, Prince of weasels, your the biggest idiot ever...they'll never do what u want, second, i think that its great what Free-X is doing cuz we will be able to unleashe the power behind the mysterious black box...I think M$ could have done somethiAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    First of all, Prince of weasels, your the biggest idiot ever...they'll never do what u want, second, i think that its great what Free-X is doing cuz we will be able to unleashe the power behind the mysterious black box...I think M$ could have done something better in the interaction between both groups but their hothead fu***** em up

    It's very impractical to use this method to run pirated games. When you have the original BIOS the Xbox can only "see" 8GB of the HD. Big deal, you can backup one, maybe two games to the hard drive at a time to play on Live. Very, very impracAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    It's very impractical to use this method to run pirated games. When you have the original BIOS the Xbox can only "see" 8GB of the HD. Big deal, you can backup one, maybe two games to the hard drive at a time to play on Live. Very, very impractical and not worth it. You still need to have a mod chip to use a bigger hard drive, this is NOT going to promote a lot of piracy. It is just not a viable or practical solution to backing up games. I am sure some people would be willing to waste their time to do it, but in the long run, this isn't going to hurt Xbox the way people think it is. If they discover a way to play backups from the DVD easily with the original BIOS intact, then there may be a problem. As it stands now, the Xbox won't turn into the Dreamcast, and piracy wasn't even the reason the Dreamcast went down the tubes. Sega just didn't have enough game developers for the console, end of story.

    Why is it not possible for games to be played from the dvd rom drive? Big deal the hard drive can't be used without a modified bios, people can easily download pirated pre-patched games and burn them and use this trick to play the copied dvd-r's or whateAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    Why is it not possible for games to be played from the dvd rom drive? Big deal the hard drive can't be used without a modified bios, people can easily download pirated pre-patched games and burn them and use this trick to play the copied dvd-r's or whatever.. If the only way to launch xbe files was from the hard drive, then I would agree with Brian, but I assume (correct me if i'm wrong) that these xbe's can just as easily be launched from the dvd drive. SO... it isn't very impractical. The 007/Mech Assault hacks were impractical w/o flashing the tsop, but I don't feel that this hack falls into the same category. BTW.. how long do you think it will take for almost every feature available to "mod-chip" users to be available for the users of this hack? I don't know enough about it to say whether or not the 8gb limit with the original bios will be overcome by some other method or not.. but there's always a chance.

    The "You own it so you can do what ever you want with it" analogy isn't 100% correct. If you buy a house you still need someware to put it and the land it taxed. The state controls what you can/can't build on it, and can tear it down if they dXDeck -- 05/07/03

    The "You own it so you can do what ever you want with it" analogy isn't 100% correct. If you buy a house you still need someware to put it and the land it taxed. The state controls what you can/can't build on it, and can tear it down if they don't like it. The same is true for a car; speed limit, seat belts, vechicular homicide.

    In retrospect I can buy a screw driver and use it to poke holes in the ground, open a can of paint, ect. All of which is not the intended use of the tool. But If I kill someone with it, you get the idea.
    But the question remains. Do you own it. YES! I can own the car and turn it into a rollbarless dune buggy just aslong I I never drive it on the "roads".

    The XBox is the same but the programming is protected by copyright laws thus the cars... road.

    The hack can be modified to run code off the DVD, BUT ... it will fail because the BIOS will not allow it, it can only play off the HD. If you modified the BIOS to allow it to work, then this release is not any different than just installing a mod chip. Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    The hack can be modified to run code off the DVD, BUT ... it will fail because the BIOS will not allow it, it can only play off the HD. If you modified the BIOS to allow it to work, then this release is not any different than just installing a mod chip. That's the point, this is no biger a deal than mod chips are. People that only use this released info to play a backup might as well just get a mod chip instead, it is NOT practical enough to just use this exploit to play a backup.

    HIPPIES! ALL HIPPIES! Man, these people need to stop worrying about Linux being supreme and need to start worrying about how they can afford to buy their wives from russianbrides.ru Seriously. Time can better be spent. -NAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    HIPPIES! ALL HIPPIES!

    Man, these people need to stop worrying about Linux being supreme and need to start worrying about how they can afford to buy their wives from russianbrides.ru

    Seriously. Time can better be spent.

    -Not a Microsoft Lover, just an objective thinker

    Mr Smith wrote: [[This could mean the xbox will follow the dreamcast's fate. But hey Microsoft had there chance. The xbox is certain to fly off the shelves now, and as what was said above the scene is about to get a whole lot bigger. Mr Smith]] Joe -- 05/07/03

    Mr Smith wrote:
    [[This could mean the xbox will follow the dreamcast's fate. But hey Microsoft had there chance. The xbox is certain to fly off the shelves now, and as what was said above the scene is about to get a whole lot bigger.
    Mr Smith]]

    Maybe Microsoft has a hidden agenda. (Read: Maybe. I'm not accusing Microsoft, I just like conspiracy theories. ;) So don't jump down my throat about it TOO much.)I read that it wouldn't be hard for Microsoft to install new "dashboard" software over XBox Live that would disallow FreeX's program from working. And, as Mr Smith put it, "the xbox is certain to fly off the shelves now." Maybe that's -why- MS didn't give FreeX a contract or rights of any sort.

    If MS bends, FreeX can release their product legally. MS loses.

    If MS doesn't bend, FreeX releases their program. XBoxes start to sell like hotcakes. Microsoft then changes their "dashboard" software via Live, and alters production to sell already-fixed XBoxes. Anyone that uses Live, loses. Anyone that buys an XBox later loses.

    The only hole in the plan is if you didn't use Live, I suppose..

    Well if it isn't possible to boot games from the dvd drive then i do agree.. but is it not possible to patch the xbe before burning a backup? The bios allows you to boot from dvds (obviously) since that is what you are SUPPOSED to do.. again I could be Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    Well if it isn't possible to boot games from the dvd drive then i do agree.. but is it not possible to patch the xbe before burning a backup? The bios allows you to boot from dvds (obviously) since that is what you are SUPPOSED to do.. again I could be wrong but it just doesn't sound logical that games can't be played from dvd with this exploit at all. Maybe not yet, but if all that is needed is a patched xbe in every game then most "release groups" will more than likely pre-patch every release so that it can be burned/played without incidence using this exploit, thereby making piracy easier for the people who won't modify their console. BTW if you know WHY it wouldn't work to boot from dvd then just tell me and i'll shuddup. :p

    Gill Bates wrote: > The GC has only had a handful of game releases > so far and there are no mods for it at this time > that I know of (soon though i assume). Does the phrase "Free Loader" mean anything toAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    Gill Bates wrote:

    > The GC has only had a handful of game releases
    > so far and there are no mods for it at this time
    > that I know of (soon though i assume).

    Does the phrase "Free Loader" mean anything to you? Because I've seen them at the local GameStop for the last 6 months or so, and they seem to be an import-hack boot disc.

    I believe there's a modchip for GC also.

    Gill Bates wrote: > Name a game company that will want to release > games on an insecure console knowing full well > that they could release it on a different more > protected console and receive larger revenues Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    Gill Bates wrote:

    > Name a game company that will want to release
    > games on an insecure console knowing full well
    > that they could release it on a different more
    > protected console and receive larger revenues
    > due to less piracy.

    Well, everybody who released games for the PS1 did just that, since the thing could easily be "modded" with a plug-in module in the back and a spring.

    And everybody who releases for the PS2 does the same thing, since there are modchips that plug into the USB ports.

    Microsoft's in no real danger here.

    Heartburn kid: that was not the point. I was speaking about publicly available GC releases.. not bootleg sh*t made by an actual disk press. The point was that it would still require additional hardware to play copies.. be it a boot disk or a modchip or Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    Heartburn kid: that was not the point. I was speaking about publicly available GC releases.. not bootleg sh*t made by an actual disk press. The point was that it would still require additional hardware to play copies.. be it a boot disk or a modchip or whatever. there is no "do it once and now u can boot anything every time" solutions for the GC(except a possible modchip if you are right about there being one).. check out the gamecube section of nforce.nl if you want to see what publicly available pirated games have been released for GC. There aren't many.

    Maybe if they had written a decent OS for it, and maybe designed significantly different chips, this wouldn't be a problem. My question is: What drove people to try and *nix it in the first place?Benjamin Kaplin -- 05/07/03

    Maybe if they had written a decent OS for it, and maybe designed significantly different chips, this wouldn't be a problem. My question is: What drove people to try and *nix it in the first place?

    OK.. i understand that you could easily mod a ps1 by getting an action replay or whatever or a ps2 for that matter.. but YOU STILL NEED ADITIONAL HARDWARE! Any little deterrant stops lots of people. Look at the Dreamcast where there were no deterrants bAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    OK.. i understand that you could easily mod a ps1 by getting an action replay or whatever or a ps2 for that matter.. but YOU STILL NEED ADITIONAL HARDWARE! Any little deterrant stops lots of people. Look at the Dreamcast where there were no deterrants besides the size of the actual games. So people ripped some movies or whatever from the game so it would fit on cd's. And for the most part, that was the end of Dreamcast. When there is nothing hardware based at all stopping it.. that is where trouble lies.

    Goodby Xbox..who in there right mind is going to develope any kind of game for the xbox now...Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    Goodby Xbox..who in there right mind is going to develope any kind of game for the xbox now...

    I've just recently heard about this hack... Tell me, does this mean that I can go out and buy a relatively cheap Xbox and make it my new Linux system at home, for not-so-intensive computation, like web-surfing, etc.? What are the specs of the Xbox? WilAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    I've just recently heard about this hack... Tell me, does this mean that I can go out and buy a relatively cheap Xbox and make it my new Linux system at home, for not-so-intensive computation, like web-surfing, etc.? What are the specs of the Xbox? Will it be somewhat equivalent to a ~PIII-500, or so? How about ethernet connection, my own hard-drive, externals, CD-burner, etc.; is that easy to install, or is it already in the system?

    Thanks, and sorry about the stupid questions.

    in all honesty linux on the xbox is not great. I would personally wouldn't compare it to a 500mhz system to be honest, simply because of only having 64mb of ram. It is very slow and kde is not an viable option. Resolution is also somewhat of a problem, Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    in all honesty linux on the xbox is not great. I would personally wouldn't compare it to a 500mhz system to be honest, simply because of only having 64mb of ram. It is very slow and kde is not an viable option. Resolution is also somewhat of a problem, but is better now than it was when the first version of xbox-linux was released. the gentoox distro is very user friendly, but as i said.. SLOW, but it comes pre-configured for optimum performance with an xbox. If you use windowmaker or other alternatives to the bloated kde, it might be alright. I think you would be much better off buying a bargain pc for your needs at a cost of maybe 100 or 200 more dollars than that of the xbox. Of course this is only imo.

    Think of the bigger picture, i.e., beyond games piracy. This opens up opportunity to create content for the xbox without huge royalties to MS. I think this is a +++ for MS. Think of 3D Mail, Instant Messenger, etc.. This will make the xbox or whoever alloAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    Think of the bigger picture, i.e., beyond games piracy. This opens up opportunity to create content for the xbox without huge royalties to MS. I think this is a +++ for MS. Think of 3D Mail, Instant Messenger, etc.. This will make the xbox or whoever allows the running of 3rd apps/content to become the center of home entertainment. Let the race begin.

    I'm a bit impartial here. Both sides have their valid points and their mistakes. As far as the usage of what is in all legal technicality one's property, a person can use it however they want, as long as it does not harm or hinder another personAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    I'm a bit impartial here. Both sides have their valid points and their mistakes.

    As far as the usage of what is in all legal technicality one's property, a person can use it however they want, as long as it does not harm or hinder another person or company, physically, mentally, or financially. Now, let's say I just mod my Box, and I primarily use the mod to change out my hard drive, so I can backup more music (Highly unlikely, but just an example). Since the system does not back up MP3's but rather the actual CD files (Not sure if it compresses it in the ripping process though, feel free to correct any technicalities) I am expected to supply the original CD's (Expected, but nothing stopping me from using copied or burned CD's). Now, I am modding my Xbox, to meet a space limit, that is hindering an action that the Xbox originally allowed me to do. I am not harming anyone by doing this action, in fact I am helping, because I do need to buy the hard drive after all. The Xbox, and whatever mod software may come out, is a tool, just that. It is the person whom uses it that determines wether it is bad or good. A scalpel, which is just a really sharp knife, can be used to kill, or can be used to save lives. This mod, can be used to enhance gaming experiences, but at the same time, raise the level of piracy.

    Free-X made both a mistake, and smart move, by going to MS before taking actions with the finished product. Their choice of words was not all to well thought out though. They wanted to legally some out with software for the Xbox, and went to MS for permission and assistance even. They even offered to help by explaining the exploit, and even possibly giving countermeasures in the process. If MS would have taken the offer, they would have gotten technical info to further secure the Xbox, and a new sales group, by offering the Linux software for the Box. Not to mention they would have somewhat detered piracy (Probably, not saying some other bored hacker couldnt figure a way out). The comaony wanted to avoid leaking the product out all together, but they at the same time wanted to be able to share it, without placing it in the wrong hands. They wanted a controlled release of it, which is difficult to due without the means of doing it. By MS not going though with it, they acknowledged the free release of it. They knew that the action they took would lead to such a problem, and still did nothing to detere it.
    If they determined that what was said was a threat, they should have taken action BEFORE the release of the product, instead of waiting for said release to happen. The essentially invited it, possibly by alterior motives as mentioned before, or just by shere ego alone. While the choice of wroding wasn't all to bright, the message still was a good one. "We would like to release this product, if you don't want a say in it, then we'll just release it as shareware, but we would appreciate your assistance in this matter." That's what I interpreted from their message. It is possible MS thought differently, responding to what they thought was a threat, or just didn't care. because it's just a group of people wanting to release a product, which they never liked in the first place.
    As far as the Xbox going the way of the junk pile, we'll just have to wait and see.

    Microsoft is only suffering from a taste of their own medication and the lack of understand of how to truly make robust software. Microsoft has literally strong-armed itself into every corner of the technology world and it is only fitting that this shouldAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    Microsoft is only suffering from a taste of their own medication and the lack of understand of how to truly make robust software. Microsoft has literally strong-armed itself into every corner of the technology world and it is only fitting that this should happen.

    I admire what Free-X did, they gave Microsoft a chance to truly expand the capability of an XBOX by letting them release a legit Linux Boot Loader. At the very least, Free-X identified a weakness to Microsoft and recommend an immediate course of action. But, as everyone knows, Microsoft has little love for Linux or anything not named Windows.

    Not that this exploit will change the lives of many people. With incredibly stagant sales (even with the unfortunate exploitation of Nvidia) and not too many (I not TOO many, I do not mean NONE) games even worth pirating, its only a matter of time before XBOX and Microsoft disappears off the console market.

    When you buy an xbox console you may own the console but the copyrights still belong to microsoft under this DMCA thing it makes it a criminal offence to break any technological measures applied my MS to prevent the use of copied games and DVD's being useCarl Robertson -- 05/07/03

    When you buy an xbox console you may own the console but the copyrights still belong to microsoft under this DMCA thing it makes it a criminal offence to break any technological measures applied my MS to prevent the use of copied games and DVD's being used. You own the console but the software belongs to microsoft. Same thing goes with all the games you own the rights to play them, not to copy, modify, hack, dissasemble or re-assemble any part of the game. You only have to look at the situation between Tecmo and all the hackers hacking Dead or Alive 3 and Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach volleyball creating nude patches. they may say its legal (just like all modders) but at the end of the day the only rule that counts is the DMCA and thats a government law not just a made up one. Like the backups are legal one it is illegal to make copies of the games, it says so quite clearly on the discs "do not make illegal copies of this disc" which means no copying. If you can't look after your own games and DVD movies its your own fault the get broke.

    The only arguments I have on this is the idea of pirating software of an elevated scale. A lot of people have worked very hard to develop their own software development kit for the XBOX, and have released many good "homebrew" programs. I don't"Moo" -- 05/07/03

    The only arguments I have on this is the idea of pirating software of an elevated scale. A lot of people have worked very hard to develop their own software development kit for the XBOX, and have released many good "homebrew" programs. I don't see how that is illegal, but what do I know. I understand the previous point of the User Agreement, and mostly agree, but what was that about installing cameras and getting rid of e-mail? I'm sorry, but your opinion would not have even been heard if it weren't for the free exchange of ideas on a global scale. But anyway...
    I have a mod-chip in my xbox. I payed for it, I installed it, and I must say that before I did enjoy my XBOX, but now that I have been able to tap into the amount of power it actually possesses, I am blown away. The "Big Black Box" is, in my opinion, one of the best developments from Microsoft since the original Windows. It beats the hell out of other consoles, just like Windows beat the hell out of Tandy's desktop. (HA!)
    I think I speak for many others who have modded their XBOX the hard way when I say that most of us believe that piracy is wrong. I do backup my games, and I use those backups, because I don't want to damage the originals due to scratches and the like. I play games off my HD (which, due to the modchip, I was able to upgrade to a 30gig, but I'm told you can go as high as a 120gig!). And you know what else? I watch media files from my PC on my big screen TV... all because of a little thing called the XBOX Media Player. This my be illegal in the eyes of a User Agreement, but I don't see it hurting anyone.
    These are all things MS could have released on their own, but didn't. I don't see it as a good buisness move to stop these developments completely, because these could be used by MS themselves in later software developments. And most of these programs are open-source, so MS could step in any time and lend a hand, and possibly make a buck in the long run.
    I think this hack by Free-x was a good thing, but like all new ideas, this can be used for good or evil. It's up to the people now. I hope all will be mature about this and not abuse this new privelage. Support homebrew software, support open-source work... but bite the bullet and buy a few games. You can always trade it in at EB games later!
    that's my two cents, for what they're worth.

    To Big Swifty, who is obviously no older than maybe, say, 14? When you buy a house, you DO own it, but that doesn't mean you can do what you want. It's called "being within code", you can NOT build expansions and extensions without perAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    To Big Swifty, who is obviously no older than maybe, say, 14?

    When you buy a house, you DO own it, but that doesn't mean you can do what you want. It's called "being within code", you can NOT build expansions and extensions without permission, you can NOT change the wiring without having it inspected, etc etc..

    Yes, the law gets in your house and car too.. if you knew anything about anything, which you obviously DON'T, you wouldn't have posted such an asinine message.

    if this were ANYONE besides microsoft, it would be the end of the console. But with pockets as deep as theirs.. you can not be so sure.Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    if this were ANYONE besides microsoft, it would be the end of the console. But with pockets as deep as theirs.. you can not be so sure.

    To Farlander: I agree, you must not modifiy your house without permission. BUT! In case you want to make significant modifications to your house (or car), you ask for permission from the authority (and you probably get). And that's the point nowAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    To Farlander: I agree, you must not modifiy your house without permission. BUT!

    In case you want to make significant modifications to your house (or car), you ask for permission from the authority (and you probably get). And that's the point now. What can you do when you don't have a chance to get permission for even mounting a clock on the wall? Instead you're obliged to use their ugly, unprecise uniform M$ clock. No thanks. Microsoft refuses opening, no matter how nicely you ask or threaten. They stay the same big clumsy dinosaur.
    So I think you chide Big Swifty unjustly. From certain aspects it is completely respectable that he's indignant.

    IN REPLY TO BRIEN JOHNSON: It may very well be possible, using this hack, to copy the game to the HD, ftp it over to as pc equipped with a DVD burner... yadda yadda yadda... Of course, MS caught on to this plan once, and added some code to check if t"Moo" -- 05/07/03

    IN REPLY TO BRIEN JOHNSON: It may very well be possible, using this hack, to copy the game to the HD, ftp it over to as pc equipped with a DVD burner... yadda yadda yadda...
    Of course, MS caught on to this plan once, and added some code to check if the original media was in the DVD drive, otherwise the program wouldn't run... but oh ya... they hacked that too... hmm...
    I don't think the XBOX will disappear. But I do not doubt at all that the XBOX2 or whatever it's gonna be called will be darn near unhackable.

    Then again, IMO the scene is full of geniouses (who can spell much better thatn I can).

    They broke the Enigma code during the war, didn't they? lol

    I hope Free X doesn't get too cocky. If thier claim is legitimate I would hate to see them brought down over this.~Zerocool_ -- 05/07/03

    I hope Free X doesn't get too cocky. If thier claim is legitimate I would hate to see them brought down over this.

    "Gill Bates" is OBVIOUSLY a paid employee of Microsoft. It is common knowledge that they have employees whose sole purpose is to drown out anti-Microsoft dissent in chat rooms, web boards, etc. This "Gill Bates" hasAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    "Gill Bates" is OBVIOUSLY a paid employee of Microsoft.

    It is common knowledge that they have employees whose sole purpose is to drown out anti-Microsoft dissent in chat rooms, web boards, etc.

    This "Gill Bates" has nothing better to do with his time than spout pro-MS drivel. He is being paid for it after all.

    Think about it. Read his posts once more. Have you EVER met anyone so pro-Microsoft who wasn't being paid in some way or another?

    I wonder what other names this same employee uses, and what other boards he's visited today?

    Mr. Bates, #$&^%*#^%#&^&^*# you.

    First off, to Microsoft: Ha. Ha ha ha *HA* haha. Now, then, to the specific concerns: Piracy - don't worry, it'll be just as much as before. X-BOX game DVD pirating was possible before this; while it does offer a documented method oNicholas Eckert -- 05/07/03

    First off, to Microsoft: Ha. Ha ha ha *HA* haha.

    Now, then, to the specific concerns:

    Piracy - don't worry, it'll be just as much as before. X-BOX game DVD pirating was possible before this; while it does offer a documented method of getting around M$ security that can be easily adapted to nefarious purposes, and some will inevitably use it, it's not like that's news.
    Linux - point proved. Free-X shall find himself shortly to be $100,000 richer, thanks be to the gracious owner of Lindows. Hopefully, considering the current economy and profit models, the man shall be able to afford it.
    Gaming - what does this have to do with us? Unless, of course, someone wants to write some games in Linux for an X-Box, which is just about the wrong way around; you might as well make them PC games. We knew all along that this was simply a PC made up to look like a console; moreover, I personally await the day when the hard drives on these things start failing, taking all the saved games with them.
    Big picture - not much, but, of course, what does? :-)
    Microsoft - to you, it is personal. Your closed system isn't. Even more importantly, it has become increasingly obvious (likely, to everyone but yourself) that we, the insane little people on this ball called Earth, are bound and determined to do what we feel like doing, and take umbrage to anyone pointing us in a set direction. Of course, the mulitudes are herdable, but, once again, the individual, just like Issac Asimov's Mule from the Foundation novels, is completely unpredictable and seemingly bound and determined to ruin your carefully laid plans. Oh, well - you're still entirely too rich for the moment to care, I guess....

    It took a fair amount of time for me to resolve how I felt about all this, especially the seemingly spirited debate over what one may or may not do in their own time with a product that they paid good money for. At first, the staunch view of having full dAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    It took a fair amount of time for me to resolve how I felt about all this, especially the seemingly spirited debate over what one may or may not do in their own time with a product that they paid good money for. At first, the staunch view of having full discretion over the product in question insidiously creeped into my head. I believe that "I payed for it, so why the hell shouldn't I do what I want with it?" would be an adequate paraphrasing. After carefully reviewing all of the comments in this "Talkback" section, I have arrived at several conclusions.

    1) I NOW hold a belief mentioned earlier that stated something to the effect of, "Can I change that clock on the wall? No? I just want to change the clock on the wall. It doesn't keep good time. What do you mean, no? Well then, F*** YOU!" The people at Free-X did the right thing by going to Microsoft first and merely asking for a viable (and legal) alternative to what was already in place. If Microsoft had listened, it could have appeased the Linux geeks (dubbed so with my full respect) and helped to eliminate a potential security problem that future hackers may have exploited. Instead, Microsoft, being the feeble-minded, albeit wealthy, fools they are, decided to ignore Free-X, not concerning themselves with the "common man," especially not the contriving, scheming ****(by the way, that's sarcasm people, I know some of you are slow like that) that likes Linux. Microsoft COULD have earned revenue by releasing a signed Linux boot loader, but now, due to their extreme arrogance, they stand to possibly lose a good deal of money due to piracy. I suppose that this is the "F*** YOU!" in action.

    2) Some of you are extremely slow (just some, don't take offense if what follows isn't "you"). To the likes of Bryan Dery, are you that mentally retarded? Prince of weasels is using what is oft called "sarcasm." Honestly all, if you didn't decipher what he was truly trying to say by the time he mentioned the abolition of email, then you truly have no place or right to communicate with others on this vast network we all enjoy. Leave now.

    3) For all you whom own an Xbox and refer to Microsoft as "M$," why in the hell did you bother buying an Xbox if you dislike Microsoft's financial status that much? As astonishing as it may sound, YOU are the one lining their pockets. Why don't you smash your Xbox with a hammer? That will teach those cretins at Microsoft! From now on though, don't go around hurling imaginary epithets at the beast you helped create. It just isn't proper.

    hahahahahahaha.. a microsoft employee. sh*t, come on man. I do WISH i was, cause I could sure use the money.. :p Would Gill Bates be a good name to use for someone not wanting to be associated with microsoft? I just thought it was an appropriate name fAnonymous -- 05/07/03

    hahahahahahaha.. a microsoft employee. sh*t, come on man. I do WISH i was, cause I could sure use the money.. :p Would Gill Bates be a good name to use for someone not wanting to be associated with microsoft? I just thought it was an appropriate name for the discussion, or maybe you didn't even catch the name thing at all.. Either way that was the funniest thing I've heard in a while. P.S. go to hell.. oh, wait you're already there... (hope u at least caught that lame pun Pinus).

    Microsoft is doing the right thing by stopping the group from further developments. Pirated games are ILLEGAL, and should not be tollerated in ANY shape or form. Quite how they think there software is HELPING is beyond me.Anonymous -- 05/07/03

    Microsoft is doing the right thing by stopping the group from further developments.

    Pirated games are ILLEGAL, and should not be tollerated in ANY shape or form.

    Quite how they think there software is HELPING is beyond me.

    You guys are saying like I buy a pen and I am only allowed to write with it. I can do whatever I want with it, only problem is I void the waranty if I use it to drill a hole on the wall. :P I wonder if I can use the Xbox as a murder weapon...Anonymous -- 06/07/03

    You guys are saying like I buy a pen and I am only allowed to write with it. I can do whatever I want with it, only problem is I void the waranty if I use it to drill a hole on the wall. :P I wonder if I can use the Xbox as a murder weapon...

    Anybody who desires to 'hack' the X-Box is a jackass. Plain and simple. Oh, boo hoo. Microsoft doesn't want to alter an object they made. What a bunch of bastards right? But, wait. If you don't want to use it, then don't bloody buy it. You went out, took 8bd -- 06/07/03

    Anybody who desires to 'hack' the X-Box is a jackass. Plain and simple. Oh, boo hoo. Microsoft doesn't want to alter an object they made. What a bunch of bastards right? But, wait. If you don't want to use it, then don't bloody buy it. You went out, took out your (mother's, I'm willing to bet) wallet, and bought this system and signed into contract with Microsoft. Stop being pathetic 'haxxors' buy your games, n' stop bothering Microsoft.

    Ive been using windoze since I knew how use operate a computer (and only b/c thats what I was brought up on), and only started using linux a few months ago, dont think ive mananged to crash it yet. I think what free-x have done is awesome, considering micAnonymous -- 06/07/03

    Ive been using windoze since I knew how use operate a computer (and only b/c thats what I was brought up on), and only started using linux a few months ago, dont think ive mananged to crash it yet. I think what free-x have done is awesome, considering micro$ofts anti-linux fund they have to 'bribe' by offering discounts etc to schools to continue to use their software. Bring your kids up on Linux, use linux at work, and everywhere. If we can stop the next generation from using windoze M$ can be stopped. Anyone who is anyone in the IT/Electrical Industry knows linux is better we just need to convince the masses. DOWN WITH MICRO$OFT

    If you buy a house you own it. If you buy a car you own it. If you buy an X-Box you own it. If you paint a large **** on your house you're forced to change it. If you make certain mods to your car it is considered illegal to drive in the streetChris Woj -- 06/07/03

    If you buy a house you own it. If you buy a car you own it. If you buy an X-Box you own it.

    If you paint a large **** on your house you're forced to change it. If you make certain mods to your car it is considered illegal to drive in the street.

    If you mod your X-Box you make it illegal to use in certain ways as well.

    The if you own it you do what you want claim is complete bullshit, please refrain from being morons.

    If you paint a large **** on your house you're forced to change it. If you make certain mods to your car it is considered illegal to drive in the street. If you mod your X-Box you make it illegal to use in certain ways as well. The ifAnonymous -- 06/07/03

    If you paint a large **** on your house you're forced to change it. If you make certain mods to your car it is considered illegal to drive in the street.

    If you mod your X-Box you make it illegal to use in certain ways as well.

    The if you own it you do what you want claim is complete bullshit, please refrain from being morons.

    If the **** is on the inside of my home, like my xbox, away from public view, I will not be forced to change it.
    No matter the mods to my car, if I drive it on private property, like where I use my xbox, then it is not illegal.

    "If you own it you can do what you want claim" is a legitimate analogy and perfectly understandable, unless of course you happen to be a moron.

    If they claim they were not blackmailing Microsoft, they should seriously re-evaluate the definition of blackmail. It's not only a "sad day for Microsoft", it could also be a sad day for a legitimate online gaming public with the gaming hacks thAnonymous -- 06/07/03

    If they claim they were not blackmailing Microsoft, they should seriously re-evaluate the definition of blackmail. It's not only a "sad day for Microsoft", it could also be a sad day for a legitimate online gaming public with the gaming hacks that could follow in the wake of this exploit.

    Good LORD, I have seen some of the stupidest comments on this board EVER... Seriously, this hack isn't for just anyone... this is a complicated hack, and even IF low end tutorials are made, it still is not a practical way to hack the xbox. Anonymous -- 06/07/03

    Good LORD, I have seen some of the stupidest comments on this board EVER...

    Seriously, this hack isn't for just anyone... this is a complicated hack, and even IF low end tutorials are made, it still is not a practical way to hack the xbox.

    God damn, you guys, if you don't know what you're talking about, shut the hell up. seriously.

    on a sidenote: the gamecube has not been hacked... at least not yet. Just because releases have been made, means nothing. the first xbox releases were made before the xbox had been hacked. the panasonic Q (dvd enabled version of the 'cube) hasn't even really been "hacked" it actually runs backups without any modifications... (it has been modded to play all region games and dvds).

    I repeat, this will NOT make the xbox "scene" tremendously bigger... nor will it make the xbox easier to hack. The xbox will be constructed differently, starting very very soon, and even if you have an older version of the system--if you use xbox live, it's going to make it very difficult for the average xbox user to use this mod. it's ALREADY very difficult for the average user!!!

    one last thing. if you buy something, and it becomes your property (which is what happens when you BUY something) you should be able to do whatever the *%*& you want to it, as long as you don't infringe copyright laws. if i want to make my toaster into a lawnmower, I should be able to &*^% convert my toaster into a lawnmower. It's in the privacy of my own home, I'm not hurting anybody...
    on the other hand, If i want to run burned xbox games on my toaster, that's not cool.

    hey geuss what people with poll up **** tyou can already play all the pirated games you want with this hack (and another program) I think you peole are funny, so like if I get a car I can't put new tires on it? You people are old gay farts with no idea whMelee -- 07/07/03

    hey geuss what people with poll up **** tyou can already play all the pirated games you want with this hack (and another program) I think you peole are funny, so like if I get a car I can't put new tires on it? You people are old gay farts with no idea whats happening in the workd of warez and console-secnes.

    anyone that wants this **** go to
    efnet
    #xbins

    loader only works for v1 xboxs with Kernel 4034 and the 4920 dash. so for now onyl v1 xboxs with the updated dash (though xbox live) can play back-ups...now. expect a new release today.

    What makes Free-X think that Microsoft has any obligation to run anything but what they want on THEIR machine. That's right, MICROSOFT makes the X-Box, and they decided to run their own software on it, which is the most logical thing to do. And why the Anonymous -- 07/07/03

    What makes Free-X think that Microsoft has any obligation to run anything but what they want on THEIR machine. That's right, MICROSOFT makes the X-Box, and they decided to run their own software on it, which is the most logical thing to do. And why the hell would you want Linux on an X-Box anyway? No one is going to send a virus to an X-Box, and if they do, what is a virus gonna do to a video game console? Just tell Microsoft and they'll fix it for you. And if you surf the net on your X-Box, you have broadband. And if you have broadband, you probably have a computer anyway, so having Linux on your X-Box to surf the web is completely pointless.

    Wow Free-X, blackmail. Tough guys do blackmail. And by tough guys, I mean asshats.

    My god, cars can be used to kill people, let's make those illegal! Heck, what about guns? That's the sole POINT of them! Let's make them illegal too! I've heard this debate before. Let's ban crowbars because they can be used to break into houses. AsAnonymous -- 07/07/03

    My god, cars can be used to kill people, let's make those illegal! Heck, what about guns? That's the sole POINT of them! Let's make them illegal too! I've heard this debate before. Let's ban crowbars because they can be used to break into houses. As for mod chips, they are not illegal to own, as far as I know, so if they're used for legitimate legal purposes, what's the problem? I also agree with the person who said that they can change their toaster to a lawn mower if they wanted to. I bought _____, I should be able to do whatever I want with it, within legal limitations. They could tack on a "contract" saying you won't buy Nintendo products or Sony products, either. Once the product enters your purchased hands, you're allowed to do whatever you want. They can RECCOMEND you only use Microsoft products, but they can't contract you to that.

    Why Run Linux on the X Box? A few reasons, and only one of them (tha tI can currently think of is entirely serious). 1) Linux is |337 it like totally pwnz 2) XBox's make cheap and with linux flexible and reliable servers if you get your insAnonymous -- 08/07/03

    Why Run Linux on the X Box? A few reasons, and only one of them (tha tI can currently think of is entirely serious).

    1) Linux is |337 it like totally pwnz
    2) XBox's make cheap and with linux flexible and reliable servers if you get your install on. Well theoretically anyway.
    3) Because it like totally shows M$ that we aren't afraid of them just because they're a multi hojillion dollar a year company who more or less control the PC industry. Fight the power man! Let's bring about the Neo Socialist Anti Fascist Brigade of Super Linux Hax0rs.
    4) Because some technologically minded people enjoy exploring the limits and possible applications of a given piece of hardware. Some people enjoy sports, other people enjoy lying to children about evolution (It's a fact and a theory, try to keep up)

    So in summary, XBoxs could make cost efficient dedicated gaming servers. or people migh tjust like doing that kind of thing - people like doing up cars and slapping on sneezers and spoliers and whatknot even though the net effect isn't that great with all this "speed limit" and "road rules" nonesense.

    And as for calling Microsoft M$ or Micro$oft I think Gabe and Tycho say all that needs to be said. http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-07-22

    Apotheosis out

    Microsoft (like all console companies with their respective consoles) sells x-boxes at a lost, they recoup and plan to profit by selling software people who buy x-boxes for servers are defrauding MS and causing them to lose money on the xbox, and screw ovAnonymous -- 08/07/03

    Microsoft (like all console companies with their respective consoles) sells x-boxes at a lost, they recoup and plan to profit by selling software people who buy x-boxes for servers are defrauding MS and causing them to lose money on the xbox, and screw over the people who have bought the consoles for gaming as it pushes the console closer to being scrapped the more it loses in the profit area. Thats why Emulaters can be useful so long as the games being played on them are legal, they remove the cost of x-box hardware from ms. Why would MS give the group a linux bootloader anyways, why the hell would they want their x-box to be less profitable? For people to believe that was the right route for MS to take is pure stupidity. With that said i want to buy an XB but increased profit loss may cause MS to can them and that would destroy 3rd party support.

    I think this is a good thing. what the hell is that crap about "your leasing it" i payed for the xbox and if i want to mod it i will. Ok think piracy is bad but as long as me modding my xbox or doing what i want to it doesnt affect anyone else. Anonymous -- 08/07/03

    I think this is a good thing. what the hell is that crap about "your leasing it" i payed for the xbox and if i want to mod it i will. Ok think piracy is bad but as long as me modding my xbox or doing what i want to it doesnt affect anyone else. i dont remember signing a contract at game stop that states microsoft owns it still and im "borowing it". If i want to run linux on it im going to. whats next? not being able to install linux on your PC thats has windows? whats the difference. you payed for both.

    ...another thing that bothers me is on the xbox version of Phantasy star online it doesnt let you use "linux" as a charecter name. i dont get that. is microsoft scared? theres nothing affensive about the word "linux" i can understand bAnonymous -- 08/07/03

    ...another thing that bothers me is on the xbox version of Phantasy star online it doesnt let you use "linux" as a charecter name. i dont get that. is microsoft scared? theres nothing affensive about the word "linux" i can understand blocking otherthing that i wont get into but for gods sake linux. there that paranoid?

    God of Ketchup, Linux is totally awesome. If you don't know that (which you clearly don't) you haven't used it-- or you have, and you just don't understand it. So, Free-X doesn't believe that M$ has any obligation to run anything else, but they Anonymous -- 08/07/03

    God of Ketchup, Linux is totally awesome.
    If you don't know that (which you clearly don't) you haven't used it-- or you have, and you just don't understand it.
    So, Free-X doesn't believe that M$ has any obligation to run anything else, but they do have a legal right to run linux on it, and so do other people. The xbox is not microsoft's. If they want to run linux on it, let them efn do it.

    They tried to contact M$ so that they could have a fair chance at releasing a linux package that won't allow piracy! M$ had a golden opportunity, Free-X was being NICE and giving M$ a shot... and they **** it up.

    Now, linux is running on the xbox anyway, and people can play pirated games without a chip. M$ got bent over and **** in the **** I think the right choice here was obvious.

    This really is sad, a group of people trying to help out Microsoft only to have it spat back in their faces. We dont want pirated games - that has NEVER been the mission for Xbox-Linux and has never been the mission for Gentoox, we want linux, nShALLaX -- 08/07/03

    This really is sad, a group of people trying to help out Microsoft only to have it spat back in their faces.

    We dont want pirated games - that has NEVER been the mission for Xbox-Linux and has never been the mission for Gentoox, we want linux, nothing more. I don't see anything illegal in using opensource software on the Xbox.

    Operating Systems = religion? I think so... Why should M$ allow other OS' to run on their hardware? I wouldn't if I had to give away my hardware to a very low price. If Linux is so nice and free, then the Linux users should go and and Anonymous -- 08/07/03

    Operating Systems = religion? I think so...

    Why should M$ allow other OS' to run on their hardware? I wouldn't if I had to give away my hardware to a very low price.

    If Linux is so nice and free, then the Linux users should go and and buy a cheap PC, not a console like Xbox. They know what they buy and what the agreements are, so why bugger?

    There got to be many old PC's with Pentium 2 or 3 with around 1000mhz available now where INTEL has released those 3 GHZ f**kers.

    So dear Linux people, go buy a cheap PC or something else that was meant to be "free" installable. The software might be "OpenSource", but the hardware is NOT "OpenHardware" so forget about it. Grow up people, spend less money/time on bragging and use the saved amount for something easier.

    Well, that's just my opinion, but okay, I have been on the Commodore 64 and Amiga, before PC... I guess I am brainwashed - in those days, I also thought that my computer was THE only system to own, everything sucked! Now I have grown older. :-D

    it's the uber cool factor... people have already been running linux on the dreamcast, ps2, and xbox. linux freakin owns, and when you buy something, and it becomes your property-- it becomes "openhardware." you can do whatever the hell you wantAnonymous -- 09/07/03

    it's the uber cool factor... people have already been running linux on the dreamcast, ps2, and xbox. linux freakin owns, and when you buy something, and it becomes your property-- it becomes "openhardware." you can do whatever the hell you want to it.

    why bugger? why NOT???

    Why should M$ allow other OS to run on their hardware? simple:
    it's not up to them whether or not linux will run on xbox. it WILL run whether they like it or not. they could've released an official package to avoid piracy, but they didn't. they **** it up. simple as that.
    If I was given the choice between working with a group to release an official linux package that avoids software piracy, and just letting them release a package that allows piracy... well, the choice it obvious.

    I don't know how many times I'm going to have to say that.

    Wow, interesting discussion. First Off, I'd like to say that Tinus Lorvalds, you might be right. There might just be a Microsoft Employee posting here... -------- Carl Robertson, I'm not a lawyer, but this is my understandiBrett Havener -- 10/07/03

    Wow, interesting discussion.
    First Off, I'd like to say that Tinus Lorvalds, you might be right. There might just be a Microsoft Employee posting here...

    --------

    Carl Robertson,
    I'm not a lawyer, but this is my understanding as an I.T. person:
    1. Making a backup copy of a game you own is not illegal(in the US).
    2. Not everything on license agreements are legally binding. No matter what the agreements say, reverse engineering code(a form of software hacking) is legal and a protected right. Without this protection we would quickly fall into a tyranny. As programmers would not be allowed to break apart MS windows code to write programs correctly for it.
    3. Duplicating disks(or CODE) AND selling or redistributing them(or it)is illegal without the concent of the copywrite holder.
    4. It is illegal to play a game you haven't paid for(unless you borrow a legitimate copy from a friend, or the copywrite holder allows you to).

    Anakin Berry Bread,

    I hear you man. Don't worry though.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/96369.html
    http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/05/15/HNeuantitrustlaw_1.html

    (Notice the quote from Microsoft's Chief Salesperson "Under NO circumstances lose against Linux,")

    Microsoft is afraid of Linux. Pure and simple. Microsoft dislikes Linux because it can not own or destroy it as it has done to it's competitors in the past.

    Linux is the fastest growing operating system. Yes, Linux is more secure and technically better in all respects except for playing games(though you can play quite a few windows games on Linux...). As a testiment to this, Microsoft uses Linux on it's own webservers. Most importantly, however, Linux is, day by day, becomming easier to install and setup(to appeal to the masses). Linux is an inevidability. Microsoft's best hope is to slow it's progress.

    ShALLaX(and similiar posts),

    Linux flys in the face of Microsoft. Microsoft would never legitimize it, especially on thier console. As far as Microsoft is concerned, the fewer people know about Linux, the better.

    -Brett

    X-boxes are sold at a LOSS. Computer hardware is not sold at a loss it is sold for profit. It is no where close to the same. buy a 600mhz pIII, a 8-10 gb HD, a 815 chipset based mobo and a 5.1 soundcard equal to the MCP-D, 64mb sd-ram(the x-box uses ddr),Truth -- 12/07/03

    X-boxes are sold at a LOSS. Computer hardware is not sold at a loss it is sold for profit. It is no where close to the same. buy a 600mhz pIII, a 8-10 gb HD, a 815 chipset based mobo and a 5.1 soundcard equal to the MCP-D, 64mb sd-ram(the x-box uses ddr), GF4ti 4200 64mb card and you have already gone far over the cost of the x-box but every company you buy from makes profit, not so if You buy a console but no games. How do console company's recoup their losses you ask, 1st party games and royalties only. For MS or any console company to have gave the say so for this linux bootloader they must be crazy and enjoy losing money.

    Xbox the way of the Dreamcast? are you smoking crack? seriously the dreamcast lost the war because sony beat the dreamcast to a pulp with their non stop advertising, they sold 50million consoles because of 3 games and thousands of ads on television, and pHomey Willaker -- 15/07/03

    Xbox the way of the Dreamcast? are you smoking crack? seriously the dreamcast lost the war because sony beat the dreamcast to a pulp with their non stop advertising, they sold 50million consoles because of 3 games and thousands of ads on television, and paper.... if dreamcast had the ad campaign of sony they wouldnt of lost right away (eventually do to lake of console power)...

    seriously if xbox dies because of piracy than i will stop playing games period, ive been playing since pong and have yet to see piracy ruin a system, the playstation was hacked, the playstation 2 was hacked, i think even the game boy advance was hacked, they are all still top sellers, so what are you talking about-

    ps,.. i cant wait for xbox to run homebrew on unmodded, less money to the crooks selling mods-

    I think this is awesome! I dont care what you stupid people think this is the greatest thing that has come yet to xbox modding! screw you all!Your Moma -- 16/07/03

    I think this is awesome!
    I dont care what you stupid people think this is the greatest thing that has come yet to xbox modding! screw you all!

    How is this going to effect someone like myself? Just use computer to compose writieings and to read information? I want an interface that will access any information source, play any video, acess any file, allow me to compress, and store every file in Jas. Thoms. -- 31/07/03

    How is this going to effect someone like myself? Just use computer to compose writieings and to read information? I want an interface that will access any information source, play any video, acess any file, allow me to compress, and store every file in a raid setup where one HD mirrrors the main one, so I cannot lose anyfile. Earth link is complained about. Want Storage Site. Perhaps Lindows and Yahoo? Where can I get all purpose reader? jetii5518@yahoo.com

    right on guys, bring'em downDavid Petroline -- 03/10/03

    right on guys, bring'em down

    i could be totally wrong about this, but someone told me that after that whole "update worm" that crashed so many pc's around the world, microsoft realized that their own backbone was at risk. its like this, there is so much windows software ouAnonymous -- 16/10/03

    i could be totally wrong about this, but someone told me that after that whole "update worm" that crashed so many pc's around the world, microsoft realized that their own backbone was at risk. its like this, there is so much windows software out there, and so many people hate that company, that they're own product is a huge target for such problems. thus, they switched their whole server backbone over to *drum roll*.... linux. its more secure and hardly has any problems getting hacked. at least in comparison to windows.

    ok, so lets say thats true. a total double standard on microsoft. "its ok for us to use this software, but the rest of the world shall bend for windows!" not that this is a reason to go along with free-x, its just that double standards make me sick.

    anyways, the only solution i can find is this. microsoft legally has the right to take linux, re-write the code and re-package it specificly for the xbox, and make money off it. its perfectly legal to do that. so why not? over two flavors of the xbox instead of one. let the people decide which they prefer. a linuxbox or a windows box. label it right on the packaging. go with the flow of the people, but do it in a way to make some money off it. i don't have a problem with that. hell, id rather pay for a linuxbox that is 'signed' by microsoft and set by them to run on their network rather then a hacked setup that may or may not work and probebly could get me into some trouble legally down the road.

    ms just seems to me to be some huge lumbering prize fighter that feels its brute force is enough win. rather, it should allow the people to form it. be like the powerfull force of water and simply flow where ever it takes it, using each oppurtunity to legally turn a buck. thats the way a martial artist fights, and would turn a prize fighter into putty by simply 'going' with his punches, moving in the same direction, but exploiting it at the same time to take the advantage.

    Good, hopefully it will be more reliable than the original Xbox. Mine died just out of warranty. Now Xbox want $200 to look at it.Anonymous -- 15/03/04

    Good, hopefully it will be more reliable than the original Xbox. Mine died just out of warranty. Now Xbox want $200 to look at it.

    Why hacking and piracy will never be stopped 'There are not enough jails, not enough policemen, not enough courts to enforce a law not supported by the people.' Hubert.H.Humphrey Why it is actualy done 'The Greatest pleaAnonymous -- 20/05/04

    Why hacking and piracy will never be stopped

    'There are not enough jails, not enough policemen, not enough courts to enforce a law not supported by the people.'
    Hubert.H.Humphrey

    Why it is actualy done

    'The Greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do.'
    Walter Bagehot

    Why it is uselesss to try and stop it

    'Good men need no laws, and bad men are not made better by them.'
    Ascribed to Demonax of Cyprus

    where do i download it from !!!!!!!! lol, i want this software like right now!Anonymous -- 03/12/04

    where do i download it from !!!!!!!! lol, i want this software like right now!

    where do i download it from !!!!!!!! lol, i want this software like right now!Anonymous -- 03/12/04

    where do i download it from !!!!!!!! lol, i want this software like right now!

    TP !!! I NEED TP FORMY BUNGHOLE!!!!!!!!!!BEAVIS -- 29/01/07

    CRAAAAAA CRAPACHINO DO NOT MAKE MY BUNGHOLE
    ANGRY THE STREEETS WILL FLOW WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NON-BELEIVERS SPLAGETTI araraggggggg &^$%^&$&%$%$(*&^*(&()*^ butbubtubtutututububt (^%(*%(*%*(%&

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