Apple sweet for WA's Education Dept

Western Australia's Department of Education and Training (DET) has recently commenced a new project that will see an array of Apple Macs installed in a large number of selected schools throughout the state.

Through the program -- Learning with ICT Schools Technology Upgrade Project -- the department will purchase Apple's Intel-based iMac, Mac mini and MacBook machines for the designated schools.

The effort is the successor to the department's 100 Schools Project, which kicked off in 2003 and was the initial phase of an overarching program to upgrade IT and communications infrastructure in schools.

"Apple desktop and notebook computers were procured as part of the 100 Schools project," the department wrote in tender documents recently released. "This contract will expire in 2007."

The education sector has traditionally been a heavy purchaser of Apple products, although Microsoft-based PCs have also made in-roads into that market in recent years. Schools are able to select other Windows-based or Apple products beyond this rollout, as per their needs.

DET has gone to market for a supplier of the Apple technology, noting that the establishment of coordinated government procurement guidelines meant the successful vendor would supply other institutions in addition to public schools in the state.

"These agencies include TAFE colleges throughout WA, the Curriculum Council, the Department of Education Services, the Western Australian College of Teaching and the Country High Schools Hostel Authority," DET wrote in tender documents. The new contract will be for a period of two years.

DET did not respond to a request for comment by the time of press. The department's ICT function is headed up by chief information officer Bevan Doyle.

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Talkback 44 comments

    100 Schools Project a success? Jegar Priddle -- 27/02/07

    Whaat? you must be bloody joking, little do people on the outside know what a big stuff up the 100 schools project was and still is. for a start:
    Before the 100 Schools project came along, everything in nearly all of the high schools involved was running at least 15% faster and more efficient, why? because they run at least 150 different login scripts before the systems are ready to be used by the students, it takes on average between 1 minute - 8 minutes depending on system specs for a machine in my high school to be ready to be logged into.

    They won't allow "qualified" network administrators/network managers/mcse etc to logon to Domain controllers, why? because they are control freaks, why else, because they are scared someone might do something to make it work better, and not receive a hand behind the back scheme between it's two preferred IT contractors.

    They make us use a useless email system which has between two & twelve outages a month for a period of sometimes days, because: its Oracle they won't allow each school on the 100 schools project to run their own internal email system, we are forced to use RIS to re-image workstations, which is so time consuming and bandwidth intensive.

    Want more complaints? sure:
    They make us buy crap computer systems from two vendors, that are over charging us by at least $400.00 i can build the same computer system with better parts including a operating system license for $800.00 inc GST under their pricing: $1,300 ex GST but we still have to pay the GST.
    They say that kid's (students) love webmail, hahaha they can't even forward on their school work to their home email providers,

    They don't provide adequate internet filtering software, they make us pay top dollar for things we don't want or need to buy.

    I don't know of one person out a very large contingent of schools that is happy that everything is being controlled by little men in little cubicles in Silver City (DET) especially when skills of people are being wasted.

    I also am annoyed at the fact, that they won't give out Local Machine Administrator Passwords I have had to LophtCrack them to get the passwords

    Why??? because of people that have know idea how the IT world works run projects such as: 100 Schools Project and the Learning with ICT projects

    They make us instead of buying a new mainboard, processor, ram, larger hard drive etc and utilizing old computer cases that are still in good condition throw them away and buy new ones.

    Not only do they do this but they stay at least 6 versions behind on nearly all available software why? because they say they have to test it, rubbish they still won't allow Office 2003 and how long has that been out? they were supposed to have Fully Tested & Ratified the entire Microsoft Office 2003 suite at least two years ago, well this hasn't happened. We instead are stuck with an outdated out of shape useless office Suite Microsoft Office XP which BTW Microsoft no longer supports unless its a security related vulnerability.

    Have I complained???
    Of course I have complained, what good does it do?? nothing i get told to be quiet but enough is enough!!!!

    100 Schools Project a success? Anonymous -- 27/02/07 (in reply to #320075389)

    How is this related to the original article?

    Mate, you are just a whinger with no idea how an enterprise network should operate. Just becuase you dont get full control over your little sandbox and your job description is now obsolete.

    You do know what SOE stands for don't you? Do you have any idea how much money is saved by standardising all aspects of an enterprise wide IT network? Or perhaps we should go back to each individual site maintaining its own network, wasting heaps of man hours and money sorting out the same IT issues?

    A whinger Jegar Priddle -- 27/02/07 (in reply to #320075401)

    yes i may be whinging, I do have an idea about how an Enterprise network operates and runs, and in terms of SOE it doesn't require versions of software that are out of date by at least two versions. and don't tell me about cost cutting mate instead of having to spend $71,000 on CUA computer systems last year we instead only had to spend $40,000 because of my cost cutting for the same computer systems as what we would have bought if I didn't get parts to build the systems. And for another matter the Education Department gets its Office Suites site license for each school at such a cheap rate its almost free, and in Terms of standardization, these turkey's wouldn't have a clue one of the IT contractors at a Feeder primary school last year installed a non Department approved wireless access point why? because the head doesn't talk to the rear end.

    and are your children attending a public? or private school? chances are they are attending a private school somewhere that has money to waste.

    And if you think I have a little sandbox let me tell you something about experience:
    I have implemented more than 800 workstations using office 2003 instead of office xp without any issues, I also look after/manage/maintain 7 schools in my area, thats right (seven) not one, I am placed in a tough spot every day because people in Silver City just don't care, and when i cause a ruckus people generally situp and payy attention

    Re: Whinger Anonymous -- 27/02/07 (in reply to #320075403)

    Just to recap on what you have stated so far. Most of it sounds inaccurate or overly exaggerated

    - "they run at least 150 different login scripts"

    A number around 20 is probably more likely, you'd expect something like this where an organisation locks things down a bit for

    their end users. As we know, students are the most malicious network users of them all. A lot worse than corporate users

    security-wise.

    - "They won't allow "qualified" network administrators/network managers/mcse etc to logon to Domain controllers ... they are

    scared someone might do something to make it work better"

    No, in Enterprise networks, it is quite common to use something called Delegated Admin rights. That is, you only give enough

    rights to an individual or group that they require, best practice is "Least privelege required". That is something you learn

    when doing your MCSE. If you dont have enough privelege, its because you dont need it. If you want it, like all business

    Enterprise networks, justify your business case for elevated priveleges and present it to someone in the business that can

    decide on these matters for you.

    - "useless email system ... won't allow each school to run their own internal email system"
    Again, Enterprise network design is to use a homogenous system, not a bunch of individual email systems cobbled together,

    specific to each site. Why? Manageability, economies of scale etc. From what i know of Oracle webmail, it is also accessible

    from anywhere, regardless of which site you are at, with enterprise features like shared calendars etc. These are just some

    basic things that your solution will not be able to do.

    - "They make us buy crap computer systems ... over charging us by at least $400.00"
    Have you considered that PC vendors include 3 years onsite warranty? For $400 that sounds pretty good to me. Also, by using a

    proper company to do your PCs you get extra benefits like, insurance, leasing (another standard feature in Enterprise networks)

    and limited liability, Common Law claims against poor workmanship. Have you included the cost per machine of any Windows

    licences in your PC builds? Also what if you stop working at that site in the near future, where does that leave the school if

    you are unable / unwilling to provide free on-site support and warranty replacement of any faulty parts?

    - "They don't provide adequate internet filtering software"
    Actually they do, most sites in the category of p0rn is filtered, and a few default categories. There are workarounds, of

    course, there are for any internet filter. No filter can stop everything.

    - "...when skills of people are being wasted"
    Maybe they dont want to access the skills of individual site techs, maybe the "common good" of using one enterprise SOE

    outweighs the perceived benefits of individual techs running their own networks. I'm sure if you had some good ideas, and could

    back it up with a good business case, you could submit those ideas through the correct channels for them to be heard. Most

    large enterprises use something called Change control.

    - "I have had to LophtCrack them to get the passwords"
    Are you admitting to hacking passwords at a government site? I thought that would be illegal. Certainly then to publish the

    tool you used (seen as encouraging others) would not be a good idea either?

    - "They make us instead of buying a new mainboard, processor, ram, larger hard drive etc and utilizing old computer cases that

    are still in good condition throw them away and buy new ones."
    Standard practice in the business world, in large enterprise environments is to encourage the use of leasing, or at least, not

    hanging onto computer equipment once it has passed its warranty period. Why? Because the cost of maintaining individual pc's

    mounts up over a period of time, and studies have been done to weigh up the costs of this compared with the costs of just

    continued... Anonymous -- 27/02/07 (in reply to #320075406)

    - "They make us instead of buying a new mainboard, processor, ram, larger hard drive etc and utilizing old computer cases that are still in good condition throw them away and buy new ones."
    Standard practice in the business world, in large enterprise environments is to encourage the use of leasing, or at least, not hanging onto computer equipment once it has passed its warranty period. Why? Because the cost of maintaining individual pc's mounts up over a period of time, and studies have been done to weigh up the costs of this compared with the costs of just deploying new hardware. Yes it is wasteful (we live in a consumerist society), but there are avenues for donating older, slower, outdated pc equipment to charities etc.

    - "they stay at least 6 versions behind on nearly all available software"
    You may notice in the business world, especially large enterprise environments, that they dont usually roll out bleeding edge software, unless there is a genuine business case for doing so. Usually there is some feature in the new software that is a "must-have" that the business really wants. Even then, proper practice is to go through some sort of life-cycle approach, or change management, to ensure that any other software within the SOE is not affected in some way.

    - "stuck with Microsoft Office XP"
    Again, what business requirement is there to move to Office 2003, or even 2007? Is it just for familiarity sake? 95% of what people use office for they can still get from much older versions of Office. Word, Excel and Powerpoint are the main apps still used worldwide.

    - "having to spend $71,000 on CUA computer systems last year we instead only had to spend $40,000 because of my cost cutting"
    As far as I am aware, schools in WA receive a bunch of money to go towards buying pc's based on how many students they have. Most schools get a generous amount, so if you dont have enough, that must mean your school is siphoning those funds to use somewhere else within the school.

    - "And are your children attending a public? or private school? chances are they are attending a private school somewhere that has money to waste"
    Nope, not at school age yet. Considering sending to public primary, and private high school, mainly from the specialised subjects they can offer, like music etc.

    - "Implemented more than 800 workstations using office 2003 instead of office xp without any issues"
    Thats not an enterprise, I'd classify that as a SME. Not arguing the issue of deployment. MSI's with MST transform files make stuff like that easily manageable. The issue comes down to a business need, and what other unforseen effects new software has on an SOE.

    - "I also look after/manage/maintain 7 schools in my area, thats right (seven) not one"
    I used to work for a company where I installed / maintained / supported / consulted over 100 different sites. A lot of the time to clean up stuff that "qualified" individuals had done to their particular site, not knowing that their way of doing things was either non-standard, inefficient, or breaking some sort of security / SOE standards.

    IT Cowboys R us Jack Black -- 27/02/07 (in reply to #320075389)

    Jager - Silver City should keep you as far away from a PC as possible - Enterprise need It professional not cowboys., I never heard such ranting. any IT professional will be reading your post rolled over laughing.

    IT cow boys r us Jegar Priddle -- 27/02/07 (in reply to #320075412)

    Yeah, i admit 90% of what i have said is a cowboy move but when you have exhausted all other avenues, what else is there to do? stay and fight, put up and shut up, or leave?

    I choose to stay and fight, not for me, not for staff but for students, who absolutely hate the way the networks run at 100 schools project schools or Learning with ICT schools, changing their passwords every thirty days, screen saver's activating after 10 minutes of inactivity,

    Yes I do cause a lot of grief but for good reason, do you have 80+ teachers nagging at your heels like a bunch of chihuahuas probably not, In the flesh I am not this careless, and I don't go around changing things, but when you need to change things to get your job done, so be it, especially if the powers that be won't allow it because the business case you have given them isn't enough to warrant a move to a newer version. People often forget, the Education Department is the governing body, and the schools are 700+ individual businesses, that need to have their individual needs catered too, not being told what they can and can't have by people that have never lifted a screw driver, or even looked at a computer system's components, or even have a remote idea how to run a network.

    short and pointless Bill -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075412)

    I can mow lawns, so of course I do a better job than Jims Mowing.

    Kinda like saying I can use a computer, so anyone that doesn't do what I think is right doesn't know what they are doing.

    I think your horse is running off...

    medication time Bill -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075389)

    You make some valid points if you were talking about an isolated small business. You don't seem to think about the size and complexity of the entire project. Any money with a screw driver can build a PC from parts, but who is going to support it when the monkey is off somewhere else? What's going to happen with the mainboard explodes in 35 months - you going to replace that for free, I mean it should be covered by the three year warranty? How's your insurance cover, for when the school sues you over lost data because you put in what you should have known weren't enterprise class components?

    There are lots of details that you need to consider, and the complexity is not something you can just brush of by assuming everywhere can be managed the same as your little feifdom.

    And don't get me started on your lack of respect for the IT staff at DET - your attitude almost ensures you are never going to be happy, and you are going to find fault in whatever they do. I will say it right now, I used to work with those people, and I count myself very lucky to have had the chance. It's just like every IT department, some people know more about some things than others, and they might not be able to help you on the first contact, but that doesn't give you the right to question their abilities or professionalism.

    considering you admit to using cracking tools to violate Education department policies, I don't think you should be questioning anyone elses work ethics.

    mis information Anonymous -- 05/03/07 (in reply to #320075450)

    The idea that someone is trying to usurp others authority is misguided. i thing the whole point here is that when such a large organisation throws billions of dollars at a project there needs to be some accountability. this means right to the top. the initial decision makers and everyone down the line needs to be made accountable for their decisions. if there are cheaper more effective means of doing things surely these need to be investigated, not just brushed aside. All vendors need to resubmit their quotes and specs continually and also need to justify why they use the systems they use. ever herd of 6 sigma. if not let me explain. this is a system that spells out what needs to be done and how. it looks for inconsistencies and hopefuly eliminates potentially damaging errors. so if the ed dept are worried about losing data via one of their schools then they obviously havent got the systems in place to protect it. do you think banking organisations have this problem? No they dont why? because the protect their data from all possible threats. as should det.

    mis information Anonymous -- 05/03/07 (in reply to #320075450)

    The idea that someone is trying to usurp others authority is misguided. i thing the whole point here is that when such a large organisation throws billions of dollars at a project there needs to be some accountability. this means right to the top. the initial decision makers and everyone down the line needs to be made accountable for their decisions. if there are cheaper more effective means of doing things surely these need to be investigated, not just brushed aside. All vendors need to resubmit their quotes and specs continually and also need to justify why they use the systems they use. ever herd of 6 sigma. if not let me explain. this is a system that spells out what needs to be done and how. it looks for inconsistencies and hopefuly eliminates potentially damaging errors. so if the ed dept are worried about losing data via one of their schools then they obviously havent got the systems in place to protect it. do you think banking organisations have this problem? No they dont why? because the protect their data from all possible threats. as should det.

    100 Schools Anonymous -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075389)

    The DET executive has known for some time that the 100 schools project is a fiasco but admitting this after 5 years and millions of dollars is not easy.

    Just cause you say it doesnt make it true Red -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075485)

    I love this sort of response.
    Make an unsupported statement them comment on why no action is taken.
    Give me a break

    Just cause you say it doesnt make it true Red -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075485)

    I love this sort of response.
    Make an unsupported statement them comment on why no action is taken.
    Give me a break

    Holy Smoke Anonymous -- 01/03/07 (in reply to #320075485)

    5 years and millions of dollars, are they building the pyramids, might qualify for an entry in the new wonders of the world

    Cash Cow Marcie -- 02/03/07 (in reply to #320075567)

    This project is a cach cow, too many vested interests and free lunches, it will still be running 5 years and 10's of millions od dollars from now

    Re: cash cow Mr Ed -- 03/03/07 (in reply to #320075643)

    Probably will be still going, but if they have taken 5 years to do 100 schools, how long until all the 800 are done? By then the first school should be pretty out of date. But anyways, they all get given heaps of our money to waste each year, they might as well get something out of it

    Briefing the Minister Anonymous -- 01/03/07 (in reply to #320075485)

    It might be prudent to brief the the Minister on this fiasco before it hits the fan

    More funds needed I think Red -- 02/03/07 (in reply to #320075572)

    $5 million divided by 300,000 public school students = $16.67 ea divided by 5 years = $3.33 ea per year. Thats the price of a cup of coffee in town.

    I agree the minister should be contacted with a demand for more funds.

    Another State Govt Screw up? Anonymous -- 07/03/07 (in reply to #320075572)

    ..or will this join the list of gov IT screwups in WA? Shared Services...TRELIS... is this next?

    100 schools Anonymous -- 27/02/07

    I especially love the bit about students loving webmail. This week at our school there was a huge outcry when our school banned hotmail, yahoo mail etc and encouraged students to use the school's webmail. The overwhelming response from students in the discussion on our intranet is that the webmail doesn't work properly and there are so many things wrong with it that they prefer using free email services like hotmail instead. Love the webmail indeed. Not just us staff who think it's bollocks.

    webmail Bill -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075395)

    You haven't said why they hate it - having worked with school kids and their adult equivalent (developers and programmers), I would put money on them hating the SOE webmail because it doesn't let them do things that aren't necessary - such as attach gazillion meg attachments, send exe files etc etc.

    very funny Anonymous -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075448)

    Haha Jegar, you barely passed your Cert 4 in networks from TAFE, and you are mentioning MCSE's like you have one hahaha! I hope no one here thinks you actually know anything about what you are talking about.

    What they don't like about it? Anonymous -- 15/03/07 (in reply to #320075448)

    Like a lot of schools, we were running an exchange server which is not exactly uncommon (or hard to support) and far more capable than the oracle system. I'm not a fan of outlook but exchange server allowed us and our students to do far more than we can do now. Yes we can access it from home but we could do that before anyway. Plus we also had calendar features which staff ans students were doing to plan tasks, meetings etc. After being stuck with oracle for almost 2 years we don't have any of those type of features that were initially promised.
    As witty as your comment about hugs attachments may have been, I fail to see how our exchange server maintained by a competent full-time tech (who more or less has his hands tied now) would be any less secure than a system maintained by people 600km away who know far less about our situation.

    What is the true cost of your upgraded PC Red -- 28/02/07

    I am interested in your comments about building your own PCs on at least 3 fronts.
    1. The true cost. You state that it cost you $800 to upgrade PCs.
    What components do you replace? The monitor, the key board , the mouse the power supply, or do you reuse the old components?
    How many hours of your time goes into each PC upgrade and what is your hourly rate?
    What warranty do you provide and what is the value of the warranty?
    Do you actually record the number of failures on your upgraded kit? What is the cost of these failures measured in number of lost student hours?
    Do you use students to help upgrade the PCs? If so what is the cost to their education? What are the Oc health and safety issues? Are their parents happy that they are working in a sweat shop instead of learning?

    2. It is my understanding that the 100 Schools project was a government initiative aimed specifically at low socioeconomic schools, with a sated aim that these students would not be disadvantaged by poor, old technologies. Funding was provided specifically to allow these underprivileged students to have access to modern flat screen PCs running on a reliable network. The psychological impact of having modern NEW equipment was a key component of this EDUCATIONAL objective. You seemed to have taken it upon yourself to completely ignore these government Educational objectives because “you know better”. This degree of arrogance is stupefying. As a tax payer I say how dareyou further disadvantage these students with you ill informed opinions. Hang your head in shame.

    3. It is also my understanding that funds were provided with a specific contractual and state procurement policy requirement that equipment was purchased from the mandated 100 Schools contracts. Are you now confessing that you and or your principal have breached state procurement requirements? Who did you buy the spare parts from? Was it from a state government approved vendor or was it from one of your mates? As a tax payer what level of confidence can you proved me that the funds were used in an approved manner?
    Do you understand the consequences of what you have done? Do you understand the legal issues here? Do you understand the potential for the current contracted vendors to seek compensation for your ill informed and arrogant actions?

    Spoken like a true Bureaucrat Anonymous -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075473)

    Ever heard of "Just do It" now, today.

    Bill Bill Holder -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075487)

    yes, that's usually followed a few months later by 'why the hell didn't we do this properly the first time'

    Deja Vu Anonymous -- 01/03/07 (in reply to #320075489)

    Why didn't we do it right the first time? You hear that a lot at Education... Over....and over again. Will they ever learn?

    Less haste more speed Red -- 28/02/07 (in reply to #320075487)

    Reply to "Just do it"

    So if the desired outcome is to rapidly get new PCs into the hands of students using the funds provided by the government of the day. We have two approaches proposed here in these comments.

    1. Let Jegar buy some parts from who knows where and upgrade 800 old machines on top of his normal work; or

    2. Place an order with a vendor who is contractually bound to load the SOE software and deliver a working configured PC running legal software within a set time frame.

    I assume you must be supporting option 2.

    Office XP SOE Harry -- 01/03/07 (in reply to #320075492)

    That is making haste very very slowly, what proffessional organisation still runs software that is not even supported by the vendor.
    Not to mention educating children with outdated software.

    New concept - IT supporting the business Red -- 02/03/07 (in reply to #320075574)

    I am writing this slowly so you can follow it Harry.
    IT is there to support the business, it is not there as a play thing for a few ill informed techos. All decisions should be made with a clear business case. This includes understanding total cost of ownership. There is a cost in upgrading to a new OS. The cost of doing this needs to be balanced against the business case of spending that same money on other items , like building new schools, teacher salary increases, books etc.
    And here is some very simple maths for you. If it costs as little as $100 per PC to upgrade (and let me tell you it would cost a lot more than this in any organisation when you take the total cost into account) multiplied by 80,000 PCs = $8,000,000. I would want a much better business case to spend $8 than Harry thinks it’s a good idea.

    Firsthand experience Anonymous -- 15/03/07 (in reply to #320075473)

    I work in a country school that was part of the 100 schools project. When it was first offered to us we were promised the world. Yes we had new computers bought for us which was all very well but being attached to the DET network wasn't so hot. As one of the first schools to go on the network we were basically beta testers.
    A lot of comments on here are very critical of Reg but I can only assume those comments are based on ignorance of what has hapenned. I come from a corporate background and I can assure you that if any company outsourced a job and it was handled as badly as this was for our school they'd never get another contract. For most of the first year we had basic software not installed on our computers because our local people weren't 'allowed' to do it the central office people 600km away apparently couldn't. It might be ok for metro schools but the turnaround time for getting anything done at our school is a joke. At the end of the year we had parents of students threatening to take action against the school or the department because their students were unable to do their subjects properly as a result of having computers and operating environments that were inadequate and frequently not working.
    Now we're part of the network there's basically no going back. A lot of the bugs have been ironed out but it's taken almost 2 years and it's still far inferior to our old system which was run by a full-time competent technician. Those who are so quick to criticise the original article, I suggest you actually talk to some staff or students at some of these schools. I guarantee that what we're stuck with is nowhere near the standard that would be expected or even tolerated in the corporate world.

    Jackasses Anonymous -- 01/03/07

    I worked in IT for a time at the Education Department, but had to leave - the depth and breadth of incompetence was amazing. I just couldn’t take it anymore. These guys truly exist in their own little (amateurish) world...

    No surprise Red -- 01/03/07 (in reply to #320075499)

    So Jackass "had to leave" and he is bagging the organisation that made him leave.
    What a big surprise.
    Bit like Jegar’s line. I am a cheesed off low level technician, because the organisation doesn’t take my advice on how to implement a multimillion dollar educational program.
    Your expertise is clearly wasted guys; you both should devote your resources to solving the big issues like global warming.

    You are assuming an awful lot! Anonymous -- 01/03/07 (in reply to #320075547)

    You are assuming an awful lot

    O Rly Blue Blazer -- 02/03/07 (in reply to #320075565)

    "I worked in IT for a time at the Education Department, but had to leave - the depth and breadth of incompetence was amazing. I just couldn’t take it anymore. These guys truly exist in their own little (amateurish) world..."

    - Really? You worked in a place where people were so incompetent that you had to leave? Were these your managers or something, because if they were your peers wouldn't you have stood out as a friggin genius? Surely if everyone else you work with is truly incompetent then your status on a corporate ladder would be swiftly raised?

    Unless the true reason you had to leave was for something totally different

    Interesting Thread Anonymous -- 07/03/07 (in reply to #320075630)

    ..but how naive are you? You really think that competence = seniority or tenure length? You both have odd perspectives.

    Incompetence Anonymous -- 15/03/07 (in reply to #320075630)

    I'd have to agree about the department's incompetence. I once had a consulting business that had a contract to do some IT work for the education department and it really was a joke. The left hand had no idea what the rigt hand was doing. As an external observer I was staggered by how much time was wasted. As a contractor I routinely got conflicting instructions from different people who all thought they were the boss and the work took twice as much time and money as it should have done as a result.
    Now I'm a teacher in a school I'm never particularly surprised and any screwups coming from the department's IT.

    Interesting Bluebeard -- 07/04/07 (in reply to #320076308)

    I work in a large beauracracy, and what you're describing doesn't sound particularly unusual. Admittedly, IT departments in general are well known for lacking IT expertise. Very unfortunate.

    I'm not sure how any of this is relevant to their decision to go with Apple. Are you implying that because they went with Apple becausethey are a badly run IT department? That a dubious claim. I know plenty of badly run IT departments that use Windows or Linux.

    Are Apple Mac's worth it? Blue Blazer -- 03/03/07

    "The education sector has traditionally been a heavy purchaser of Apple products, although Microsoft-based PCs have also made in-roads into that market in recent years."

    Hah thats funny. Yes, some schools seem to be heavy Mac users, but to state that MS PC's are only making inroads is a bit rich. Most schools that have Macs only have a handful, compared with the amount of PC's on site. There wouldnt be too many schools left that have entirely a Mac network these days.

    Macs do have their place, and they are really good at some things they do, but they cause so much headaches in a network environment. Like they can join an IP network OK, get to the internet, email and print. But try do anything more advanced from a network administration point of view and it all gets too hard.

    I'm not that familiar with open source OS's in terms of network administration. But you'd think that this DET would look at spending a bit of money on developing these type of systems to help save a fortune in ongoing license costs...

    Re: Are Apple Mac's worth it? Anonymous -- 07/03/07 (in reply to #320075647)

    I'm a mac switcher and even I think it's a bit rich to insinuate that education is all mac. Kids really should learn both platforms - best tools for the job. Are they more difficult to manage than a PC? Absolutely not, provided you are using the right tools and you have the knowledge. Any computer can be made to query active directory, after all it's just a glorified/modified/extended/steroid-injected ldap. I've got qualifications in both ms & apple and to get the best out of both you need a server to administer them. The caveat is training, knowledge and experience is required by the administrator, but that is the caveat for many things

    DET pushing past the inertia; taking some initiative Jill Gates -- 19/03/07

    After the swap to Intel, everyone is on an equal playing field and, despite the some of the knee jerk comments on this page, the Apple machines continue to garner very positive reviews from all corners of the IT world (the latest one I noticed was in this month's Australian PCAuthority).

    Further, despite the slew of recent security fixes, and despite what Microsoft says and does, there are still no publicised exploits in the wild for OS X. Much more importantly, thousands of Windows hackers, including extremely well resourced criminal gangs foreign governments are *many* man year's of effort ahead in attacking Windows, so the headaches for Apple users will continue to remain dramatically lower than for Windows users for the foreseeable future.

    Given the release of both Vista and OS X 10.5 (recent and immanent, respectively), if I was a school administrator, I would most certainly consider switching.

    Well done DET for pushing past the inertia and taking some initiative. I am sure it will pay off in spades.

    HaHaHa Anonymous -- 19/03/07 (in reply to #320076495)

    Yeah right - the IT Dept ARE the inertia

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