iiNet was asking for legal trouble: Exetel

By Suzanne Tindal, ZDNet.com.au
21 November 2008 05:12 PM
Tags: iinet, dalby, exetel, linton, court, afact, federal, isp

Exetel CEO John Linton said today that iiNet brought the federal court action upon itself by not forwarding Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft (AFACT) complaints to its customers.

(Credit: ZDNet.com.au)

According to Linton in his blog, it was obvious from the first letter from AFACT that the federation was "following a strategy designed by its legal advisers to take one or more smaller ISPs to court to test the provisions of the current newer clauses in the copyright act".

At this, Exetel took action to shield itself, he said, sending AFACT a letter that said Exetel was doing everything to make sure it wasn't aiding copyright infringement. It also started forwarding copyright infringement notices to the customer alleged to have infringed copyright.

"An action such as the one now being taken against iiNet was inevitable and it was going to be costly. What also should have been clear to anyone with half a brain was that the 'head in the sand' attitude adopted by iiNet, among others, just courted the exact result that has now transpired," Linton said.

Telstra and Optus were out of the question for an action "due to their track record and long experience of using the Australian legal system to their continual advantage and their immense legal budgets [being] already in place and fully funded", Linton said.

From the list that was left, iiNet made itself a target, he continued. "iiNet has selected itself as the defendant in this test case by not only ignoring the requirement to deal with AFACT (in whatever sensible commercial manner it may have chosen to do so) but its MD has run to the press alternating between grandstanding and whining and making his company a very obvious 'target'."

iiNet's general manager of regulatory affairs Steve Dalby didn't believe it was true that iiNet had stuck up its hand for the legal action, saying only that AFACT had worked down the list until it had a company small enough to take on.

Dalby also said it was nonsensical sending notices to customers when there was no direct link between an IP address and a person. "When we get notification from AFACT all they do is provide an IP address. It's not the equivalent of a phone number," he said. "There's no pointer that this IP address is Steve Dalby."

"The whole exercise is flawed on the basis that AFACT says it has identified offenders and we say it has not," he continued.

He said it was obvious that AFACT wanted a court case. "There's no doubt it is looking for two things: A lot of publicity and a precedent." He said that such action had not had success anywhere in the world, which would make it a global precedent.

ZDNet.com.au contacted some of the ISPs to see if they had also been receiving letters from AFACT. Internode, Adam Internet, Soul Telecommunicatons have received such letters.

Soul and TPG's policy was to follow up with the customer issue a warning. If the infringements were to continue, they could disconnect the customer.

"I think all of the ISPs have been receiving letters for quite some time," said Scott Hicks, CEO of Adam Internet. "There are a lot of smaller companies out there that are incredibly worried."

He said that his company had told AFACT it needed to go to the South Australian Electronic Crime Division to follow up on the alleged infringements.

Netspace's MD Stuart Marburg said that his company had been receiving notices, but was not sure if they had been from AFACT. When the company received complaints, it tried to get in touch with the customer, which he said took up a lot of time.

Internode did not provide information on what it did when it received complaints, although MD Simon Hackett did comment on the issue. "The industry remains of the view that ISPs aren't policemen. The content industry should take legal action against end users if it believes they have broken the law. ISPs are like Australia Post: we [just] deliver it."

Telstra said it hadn't received messages from AFACT for months. If the pirated content was on its network it would have it removed, but otherwise, it required a court order to act, a spokesperson said.

"It would be a dangerous world indeed if ISPs were forced to sit in judgement of their customers, particularly on a mere allegation. Every ISP should enforce legislation of elected parliaments enforced by courts but no individual ISP should sit as judge, jury and executioner. It would be as foolish and unworkable as holding the postman accountable for the content of letters he delivers," the spokesperson said.

Amcom and Optus would not comment on whether they had been receiving notices or not.

However, an Optus spokesperson said: "It is unfortunate that the rights holders are targeting an ISP because under Australian law, Internet Service Providers may generally be considered "conduits" which provide carriage services, and as such are not responsible for copyright infringements carried out by customers using their internet services".

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Talkback 17 comments

    Of course Anonymous -- 21/11/08

    Of course they were "asking for it", but at least iiNet had the balls to stand up to them. I'm with exetel and I remember getting the email from them saying "we're going to be complying with these guys because we're too scared to do anything else."

    My best wishes to iiNet and I hope they win!

    Can you smell an even nastier mandated internet filter ? Yeebok Shuin -- 22/11/08

    I mean come on .. it's a nice lead in to "the current filter won't save your children from evil pirates so we'll make it even gooder!" 12 months after the filter gets put in and this action's finished. Call me paranoid but at least wait 'til then. :)

    Right James -- 22/11/08

    Just as well John Linton has zero credibility then isn't it.

    Exetel's opinion matters? bwahahahahahahahaha Anonymous -- 22/11/08

    I was with this pathetic excuse for an ISP. They can not even provide customer service and are constantly shaping even if you do not use torrents. When your service goes down it takes a month or more to get it working again.
    I think John should go and sit in the corner and work out how to fix his mess and leave his obnoxious opinions out of this.

    Service? peterh_oz -- 24/11/08 (in reply to #320116826)

    Funny, I, and people I know, have been with them for years. Never been shaped, though some obscure bittorrents can be slow at night. The popular ones (eg linux releases) are actually much faster due to their P2P caching.

    And whenever we've needed service, which is rare, the problem has been fixed usually within a few hours unless it required a Telstra line test. And that was after waiting on hold for only about 2 mins to talk to a service tech (yes a tech, not a customer service officer). Try getting through to other ISP's techs within 2 mins of dialling!

    yay iinet! joe -- 22/11/08

    I've had enough of hearing about the various media copyright corps running around playing policeman and enforcing the law as they see fit! screw that and go iinet! if they have an issue then go to the police, what do you want iinet to do? bust down the custs door and lock em up in a broom cupboard they have?!

    I'll be moving to iinet as soon as telstra will let them into the exchange to install some equip... which unfortunately looking at my local exchanges que telstra hasnt booked them in for quite a while

    No balls M@TT -- 24/11/08

    Exetel doesnt have the balls to take on Telstra or Optus. It is a weak, poorly lead organisation with no vision and no credibility.

    The boots are on Brenn -- 24/11/08

    Way for fledgling ISP's to try and kick a man while he's down.
    Would be interesting to see if Linton puts the boots on if it were a larger provider under the spotlight such as Telstra/Optus.

    FIGHT THEM iiNet Legendary -- 25/11/08

    All the best to iiNet in winning this case.

    No balls? Anonymous -- 25/11/08

    RE:
    "Exetel doesnt have the balls to take on Telstra or Optus. It is a weak, poorly lead organisation with no vision and no credibility."
    Exetel provides Naked-DSL for $55 with 60G (12/48)... WOOT!? We pay telstra f*** all? I say that's big balls!
    Slow download speed? I think that's your sorry **** modem mate! or Telstra's line! Mine's top 5% in Australia.
    Slow or no customer service? Maybe you should take it personal mate, you annoy them too much probably.
    Weak and poorly lead? I think the guy is just covering his **** With the world financial crisis lurking... IMO, that's NOT leading the organisation down the gurgle...
    Scared? Maybe... I mean, who wouldn't be? I see ISPs come and go...
    The company does not spend millions on ads and instead provide cheaper service...
    Adieu!

    AFAT Andy Gummer -- 30/11/08

    Telstra, Optus, and the other big big industry Players need to be making their legal recourses available to help iiNet fight this case. If not an AFAT victory will set a precedent that will see them also being targeted .

    Better to help iiNet now and put the onus back on AFAT to procede directly against the infingers not the postman.

    Failing to do so will see ISPs becoming judge jury and executioner.

    The people who manage Channel 7 and Co. Anonymous -- 06/12/08

    It's ironic how the people who manage channel 7 are off in hot pursuit of IInet given that:

    The people hwo manage channel 7 -

    Work in collusion with "child psychologists" to Deliberately target children - to pressure parents to buy them things; without which they will not be whole;

    And they keep them glued to the screen, eating junk food, and buying what ever they are told too; while the people who manage channel 7 profit from raising crop after crop of feel good addicted fat and diseased consumers.

    The people who manage channel 7 profit psychologically targeting peope to make them sick, and then they blame the government.

    The people who manage channel 7 also sensationalise and trivialise matters of importance, and turn the act of getting things done into point scoring and popularity contests - playing enemies and allies mind games.

    The people who manage channel 7 also promote car racing and the sales of gas guzzling "keeping up with the Jones junk" for a buck - even as we start to tumble into the precipice of no return....

    They train people to medicate themselves into their graves with sex, food, drugs and gossip; keeping them glued to the screens - in order to make a buck - and then they say "Oh aren't the people who we have shown how to do any thing for a buck bad" when we can catch them out doing what we have been doing for decades......

    Lying, cheating, miseading, manipulating adn robbing people... anything for a buck.

    As the SS said, "I was only following orders" - and as long as the people who manage and work for channel 7 don't have to take personal responsibility for everything they have done - then they are no different to the nazis - and their responsibility shifting.

    And in every individual in channel 7 doing everything they have done and not taking responsibility for it, and changing their ways - they are the ethical nazis of the past, today, tomorrow and the future - for all time.

    If everyone had of said, "No" then there would have been no world war 2; and yet, here we are sailing through the cross roads saying "What in the hell has happened - "I made the car, I sold the car and I bought and drove the car..... - and as long as non of us have to take any person responsibility - none of us are to blame."

    Oh wait a second.... there are lots of people watching stuff without paying for it... that's it - it's their fault - they are keeping us out of the money loop, they are keeping us from selling them junk food and keeping them glued to the screens, telling them that if they don't have the latest model gas guzzling car - they what will people think of them... they might think they are a loser, a failure - some one who couldn't make it.. up to the standards we set for them as being normal..

    The fat, the diseased, the cancer ridden - from eating the **** we tell them too and not getting out and exercising....

    The people who manage channel 7 are the liars and thieves. They steal life and health and self esteem - and destroy the planet - all in the name of a fast buck.

    Wall of Text! Anonymous -- 26/02/09 (in reply to #320118162)

    ok... no more red coridal for you

    IINET Serive Anonymous -- 01/01/09

    I have been using I net for around 4 years now their service is second to none :)

    Channel 7 at it again Anonymous -- 08/02/09

    If channel 7 didn't tippooypoo on our favorite shows, changing the times on the fly, people wouldn't pirate.
    If iinet looses, expect big protests.

    And we'll see more angry callers over the phone, because their neighbour hacked into their wifi network and downloaded illegal stuff

    An Observation Anonymous -- 26/02/09

    Edmond Burke said, "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. " which has been made modern by the requested quote according to one source I found.

    Which is usually quoted as: "all it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing"

    John Linton advocates doing nothing. He Advocates capitulating with extortion and stand over tactics and he justifies his position by ridiculing others as having their "head in the sand".

    I am sorry Mr Linton but it is time for good men and women to stand up to inappropriate, untested and threatening tactics from AFACT and others. It is time to say no to assumptions and demands. It is time for good people to do something.

    Even the much maligned Telstra have now come out in defence of iinet with legal support. Yet Exetel does noting. It is a pity you do not wish to be counted amoung the good guys. I hope your customers take note of your stance. I am glad I am not with your company.

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