Telstra uses plastic bags and tape to fix phone lines

By Jo Best and AAP

30 January 2008 08:01 AM

Tags: cutbacks, repair, sydney, telephone, telstra, cepu, sol trujillo, technician

update Plastic bags and tape are being used to waterproof phone lines across Sydney, as a union blames Telstra's move to slash thousands of technicians' jobs.

The remaining workers have resorted to using temporary patch-up measures as they try to cope with a surge in phone-line faults, the Communications Electrical and Plumbing Union (CEPU) said today.

"These rising volumes of faults are caused by Telstra's ongoing program of retrenching skilled communications technicians and major cutbacks to the maintenance of Telstra's copper cable network," union assistant secretary Steve Dodd told News Limited newspapers.

The use of plastic bags to waterproof phone lines in underground footpath boxes was so widespread that some areas of Sydney were referred to as "Baghdad" by Telstra technicians, the newspapers said.

According to the Daily Telegraph, the number of faults rose to over 5,000 during the rainy period in mid-January, compared to around 1,000 for an average week.

The increase in faults comes against a background of workforce reductions as part of Telstra's five-year plan to revamp its networks and services.

"Hundreds of skilled communications technicians have been made redundant in Sydney over the past 18 months following Telstra CEO Sol Trujillo's announcement in 2005 to reduce its workforce by 12,000," Dodd added.

Half of the job cuts are expected to be completed by this year, with the remainder scheduled to be completed by 2010.

A Telstra spokesperson said the higher than average number of faults was a result of the severe storms earlier this month, adding: -Telstra's infrastructure is highly electrical in nature and often located underground, and therefore is vulnerable to storms and flooding. Some of our network is currently under water, making it impossible and dangerous for our people to access and fix the damage.

"When it is safe for our technicians to enter, our first priority is always to restore our customers' services as quickly as possible, and sometimes this does mean implementing a temporary fix until a more permanent fix can be applied."

Talkback (80)
Print
E-mail
Share
- del.icio.us
- Digg
- Reddit
- Slashdot
- StumbleUpon

Talkback 80 comments

Add your opinion

What more could one expect? Lord Watchdog -- 30/01/08

This is typical of a company that does just about everything by halves.

I am glad I am no longer a customer of Helstra but it is a shame that I still have to rely on their network for my otherwise excellent (read: RELIABLE and VALUE FOR MONEY) ADSL2 service with Spin Internet.

Credible little Article Steve McArthur -- 30/01/08

I can't understand the rationale behind posting this article. It sounds almost farcical.
I am sure that ZDNet (or the AAP in this case), with all their journalistic integrity, requested interviews with someone at Telstra who is responsible for the quality of work that is done on their precious network, to get an explanation for this 'bagging and taping'. And furthermore, I am sure that many of the Sydney technicians were interviewed so it could be proven beyond doubt that these methods are how Telstra instructs them to waterproof the network.

I doubt that such practises are condoned by the telco, and I certainly doubt that they are encouraged. But we won't let that get in the way of the story. Seems as though we all need an anti - telstra article every morning to go with our coffee...

You will Lord Watchdog -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094521)

"I can't understand the rationale behind posting this article. It sounds almost farcical."

Next time you dial 000 and nothing happens you will understand the rationale quite well.

I know for a fact that it is condoned because I know people who work and have worked for Telstra. There may well not be any video-taped evidence yet but that is just a matter of time.

Look at how QANTAS maintains its planes now. There's no reason why Telstra wouldn't be taking a similar approach to save a few bob.

Keep reading Lord Watchdog Steve McArthur -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094534)

If you read the next article LW, you will notice that a current Telstra tech gave a very reasonable explanation for this.
Luckily for us all, when there is a water related problem, the techs take enough time to at least put something in place until it can fixed permanently.

By the way, isn't Qantas one of the only, if not the only international airline that still hasn't had a fatal crash? Don't take my word for it, I am a mere blog reader and wouldn't want to appear as a subject matter expert.
Unlike our Gracious Lord Watchdog, who has no hesitations in sharing his omniscience with us. Actually LW, would you be kind enough to share the call capture rate on 000 calls? It will no doubt add more gravity to your statements above.

"Lord" Watchdog animal lover -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094537)

We all know that watchdogs are only good for two things, barking at everything they don't recognise (or won't feed it) and producing lost and lots of s**t. So which do you do, bark constantly or crap everywhere?

No need Lord Watchdog -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094537)

If Telstra's current management regime had any idea of how to carry out maintenance activities (a field I have been employed in for around 20 years) then they'd know that having the correct spare parts in stock and on hand in case of an emergency or preventative maintenance activity being carried out.

Placing plastic bags over electrical connections DOES NOTHING to solve any problems that may arise and before you shoot your mouth off again, yes I AM appropriately qualified and experienced enough to call this a professional opinion, unlike you who merely admits to being a blog reader.

So in future take more notice of professional opinions instead of Helstra's commercially-motivated propaganda.

In 20 years have you ever not had the right parts in your truck? just another dog -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094555)

What did you do? leave the fault as is or find a temporary fix and came back as soon as practical with the correct parts, I worked as a PMG / telecom / telstra technician from 1963 until 2002 and encountered these types of issues almost every week for close to 40 years so don't pretend your expert opinion is the only opinion. You also never say anything positive about Telstra in all of your professional posts on various sites and only pop up when you think you can have another shot at them.

heh Lord Watchdog -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094558)

Unlike Telstra I don't allow anything I own to fall into disrepair. Your point about improvisation is moot since it is irrelevant to the article. Getting one's self out of trouble is a bit different to what we are talking about here. Let's compare apples to apples shall we...

As for my opinion, I never mentioned it being the only one. I simply said to the person I replied to that qualifications and experience amount to more than a blog reader. That said, you will notice that I am not the only one in this thread that disapproves of Telstra's maintenance standards. You say you worked for Telstra until 2002 - did they give you the big A like 12,000 others that your mate Sol is getting rid of or did you leave of your own accord?

The reason I ask is because if you were still working for Telstra you may not have ended up having a say in the matter. If Sol can't stomach keeping 12,000 people on his payroll then he's hardly likely to ask the remaining workers to employ the same attention to detail that has been applied in the past. Correct or not?

"You also never say anything positive about Telstra"

When they do something positive for their customers, and the nation as a whole, I will be only too pleased to give them the due credit. I don't endorse crap and that is why Telstra scores badly with my current appraisal of the situation. If that is too much for you to bear then you are frequenting the wrong websites. Maybe the Women's Weekly is more your style.

phonelinee! Anonymous -- 29/03/08 (in reply to #320094521)

my phoneline is f*kd becos of telstra !

plastic bags? what plasitc bags! Robbert Veerman -- 24/03/09 (in reply to #320094521)

A telstra technician took off the terminal box protecting 10 private lines 10 years ago.
My tenants move about every 1-2 years so we get lots of telstra techies come through in any year. about twice a year i catch them and ask for them to fix it. they never do, nor do they know who to call.
One tenant's line died this week so nameless, telstra techie (contractor(?) arrived , opened an underground pit and said the joiners had to be replaced because some were wet.
He suddenly left with the pit open, the plastic junction box open, and the wires poking up into the air!!!
and now it's raining!!!
nice one telstra!!!
nice one techie!!!

Union BS Telstra tech -- 30/01/08

The unions are scared of Telstra's desire to eliminate unions in the company and will say anything to rally support. I know this has happened a few times to seal cabling until the tech can return with the correct parts but this is not as they would want you to believe a standard or regular practice. They fix the line anyway the can with resources available in their trucks and return with the correct materials to make it permanent. If they carried every part they needed with them they would drive an 18 wheel truck.

Telstra Using Plastic bags for telephone repairs Anthony Webster -- 30/01/08

Doesn't surprise me at all.

This is what you get when governments fail in their bid to privatise telcos properly.

I was a Telstra Fanboy once, now I loathe the poor service, higher costs, and general overall poor customer service.

Bagdad, well not quite but thanks to the politicians we are well on the way there.

And the lies spew forth. Sydney Lawrence -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094531)

You people are beyond pathetic. I call on Sol and the powers that be at Telstra to unleash a barrage of serious competition upon the anti Telstra (anti Australian?) campaigners that will send you all down a gigantic whirlpool to the regions of abject poverty.

How any self-respecting Australian Telstra worker could suffer this rubbish and not expose the childish light-weight lunacy for the silly beat-up fabrication it is surprises me. Those who wish to damage Telstra for their own devious advantage will fail miserably, and soon.

smoking crack Anonymous -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094557)

anti australian?

get off the crack pipe

Damage? Lord Watchdog -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094557)

Sydney Lawrence,

Telstra seems to go out of their way to damage themselves. Telstra doesn't need any help with that and it is only the narrow-minded and ignorant that do not see it.

As for your comment about "Australian Telstra Workers" before long there won't be any left. Telstra seems to favour contracting out their operations to companies in Bombay rather than Sydney or Melbourne.

As I said in reply to another post here, I would support any positive moves made by Telstra in their dealings with customers and rollouts of new products but their agenda is currently to put people out of work, rollout new infrastructure in a haphazard way, charge the earth and mars for it and then disclaim any responsibility when things go horribly wrong.

I am not paying good money for that and there is no reason why anyone should.

Yeah right! David Skully -- 30/01/08

I have to laugh at you Tel$tra supporters trying to spin out of this.

Tel$tra has been screwing money out of people for many happy years. Now it has bitten them on the behind. So is this what people pay their line rentals fee for? This kind of half arsed repairs?. For an "Australian" company that holds so much "American" type of work ethics. Tel$tra your a crock of a company and you deserve to get bitten largely.

American work ethics? Chris -- 30/01/08 (in reply to #320094560)

Is this the new catch phrase now that the CEO is a US Import, will this change to British work ethics if we ever get a CEO from the UK? The board is still 100% Australian, the staff are Australian and in many cases were employed by the company when they were still called Telecom and 100% government owned. Once again someone wants to post a comment simply to get their name published and has nothing read to add.

There is not one employee that has direct contact with the consumer that works outside of Australia so when some of you talk about outsourcing to India get your facts straight.

Wrong Lord Watchdog -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094583)

Chris,

"The board is still 100% Australian"

You obviously don't realise that the CEO is a board member and with Sol in that position it would be easy to come to the conclusion that the board is not Australian. I will add that two dozen of Telstra's most senior executive have been dragged out here by Sol and are known as 'the Amigos'.

Your comment that Helstra's staff are all Australian may be true but as Helstra is in the throes of sacking some of them and replacing them with Indian contractors the comment about staff is irrelevant.

"There is not one employee that has direct contact with the consumer that works outside of Australia so when some of you talk about outsourcing to India get your facts straight."

I have. I was rung by an Indian call centre as my cable connection was being set up and the caller asked if I was pleased with how the work was done. Whilst I appreciated the call I didn't appreciate the fact that it was from India and made by someone that really didn't give a rats arse whether I was happy or not.

How did I know the call was from India? Quick and easy answer - the line quality was dreadful so I asked the caller where he was from and he told me.

I suggest you get your facts straight next time.

The call centre you talk about is not Telstra's Lord Bull(sh**)Terrier -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094630)

You mentioned getting a call from India asking if you were happy with the work. These surveys are outsourced to another company who only do surveys and who do them for organisations around the world. If you want to get anal about it THEY ARE NOT TELSTRA EMPLOYEES.

Also haven't you contradicted yourself, you talked about getting away from Telstra in the first comment above and I quote "I am glad I am no longer a customer of Helstra but it is a shame that I still have to rely on their network for my otherwise excellent (read: RELIABLE and VALUE FOR MONEY) ADSL2 service with Spin Internet." Here you are talking about putting in Telstra cable. All I will ask now is which version of the truth do you expect us to believe?

Board 100% Australian? Anonymous -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094583)

There are 8 members of the board, two of which (Trullio and Zeglis) are Americans, you do the maths maybe....

The CEO is always a board member Anonymous -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094633)

Sol's position on the board was automatic when he became CEO, he can also have one additional person with him on the board.

Finally...the truth comes to light Anonymous -- 30/01/08

We have seen Telstra cable run across sheep fences, across the ground, through open flooded pits etc etc. Why should a plastic bag water seal be any different?

Not overly surprised to be honest.

Why do any more when there is no return Chris -- 30/01/08

Everyone keeps commenting on outsourcing, cost cutting and lining pockets but has anyone stopped to consider that the actual return of Telstra's investment in copper is diminishing? The ACCC is mandating Telstra provides copper services to competitors for under $100 per annum and in many cases under $50 per annum.

The cost to maintain lines at the highest standards everyone expects means upgrading the copper, upgrading the pits, training technicians, equipping vans with start of the art equipment and spare supplies, maintaining exchanges, staffing call centers and all at a time inflation is adding to the burden.

If Telstra was making a killing in profits I would understand it but Telstra's profit growth has been non-existent for the past decade (below CPI on average). You are all expecting Telstra to act as a benevolent orginisation and be everything to everyone without delivering a reasonable return to shareholders.

No company will invest in an a section of their business if there is no expectation of returns let alone if the investment will actually result in the competitors benefiting and a reduction in returns elsewhere.

Instead of everyone simply name calling why don't you suggest something that would work for the consumer, the company and most importantly for the entire country.

Free and open competition is best. Sydney Lawrence -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094578)

Chris you are correct, and rather than dreaming up and manufacturing silly Posts to attack Telstra for their own selfish reasons, Tel$tra Haters would of more assistance to Australia if they were truthful and sought solutions that would advantage all Australians.

Australia, being huge in mass and small in population is difficult for service provision at reasonable cost. We have seen, over time, hundreds of small ISP's and others who (because of misguided Government policy) have managed to survive with Government handout and misguided assistance from the ACCC.

Being economic conservatives, the Labor Government, with the guidance of Rudd and Conroy are unlikely to continue this taxpayer funded waste. We have seen obscene amounts of public money ($1 billion, Opel) dispensed with no advantage to the Australian people via services and price.

It is now the time for our Government to bite the bullet and establish a sensible and sustainable system of communications in Australia. True competition must be allowed to operate without the blundering interference of the ACCC. Parasitic handouts and market destroying Regulation must stop.

All participating businesses must operate as should be expected in a free market system. If a Company, by excellent service and system provision, dominates a market, so be it, and if they extend their charges beyond fairness another Company, seeing an opportunity will enter the market and undercut the major company. The Rudd Government must restrict the ACCC, who are in fact the problem and cause of anti-competition and a free market in Australia.

Sprung! Lord Watchdog -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094623)

"Being economic conservatives, the Labor Government, with the guidance of Rudd and Conroy are unlikely to continue this taxpayer funded waste."

So you are a financial member of the Australian Labor Party Sydney?

If KRudd and Conroy are economic conservatives then I am an opera singer.

You are fat enought to be one! Dutches of Bark -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094632)

We all know the motives Sydney has for his defence of this company, he has openly admitted he supported Labor's policies going into the election but how does that make him a financial member?

Whereas your motives for bagging Telstra are based on being removed from a bunch of servers for breaching the operators own guidelines. You have a deluded belief that you liked them before this happened, you hated them and were attacking them using their own servers.

Even the stupid name you gave yourself shows how deluded you are, nothing regal or lord like about you and the only thing you watch over is your own personal interests.

Looking after number 1 Lord Watchdog -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094639)

"the only thing you watch over is your own personal interests."

Sticks and stones. However it is disappointing that all the Helstra Bogpond Chat fanboys have come here and tried to hijack a discussion about Telstra's commercial activities.

No constructive replies have been made, just personal attacks and uneducated rants. Those here who have acknowledged the failings of Telstra listed in the original article have managed to stick to the point and debate in a mature and constructive way.

No constructive replies? Craig Jones -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094646)

How about these posts?

In 20 years have you ever not had the right parts in your truck?

Why do any more when there is no return

Free and open competition is best.

Sounds familiar

So who pays?

At the end of the day

Each of these have valid points both for and against your stance, have you noticed that other then streams you are involved in the comments are generally productive?

Copper Line Problems not Just NSW Shaun -- 30/01/08

I live in South Yarra, Melbourne. Over the last 4 months I have seen 6 separate times whenTelstra techs have been lurking around my street doing inspections and performing band aid repairs to the copper lines in my street.

I was myself was without internet and home phone for nearly 2 weeks in Dec. I made 4 complaints to my non- Telstra provider. The first 3 times Telstra responded to them by saying it was not a line fault and on the 4 they finally sent someone to find copper line eroded from the street to just before it terminated at my prop. Telstra even tried to bill me but I told my ISP that I was refusing to pay and would go to the TIO. Telstra backed down. I actually chatted to the tech who came out and he said the whole street and nearly every other street in South Yarra between Punt rd and St Kilda road needs to redone as the copper lines in some of the streets are over 40 yrs old which in it self is not to bad but due to water damage and the oxidising minerals in the soil which wash on the copper and the age combined its really just big mess.

This guy was actually a Telstra employee with 25 years experience but he did not expect to have his job after xmas as he was refusing to sign an EBA which based stripped him of a lot of benefits making no better of then a sub contractor.

The issues in my area a widely known by Telstra yet nothing is done, back in the good old days it would have been one call to a group called NDC and the street would have done in a week

I live 1km metres from the South Yarra exchange which in theory should mean I get up to the full 24mbit on adsl2, but my line is synced at 11mbit bit because anything after that makes it too unstable and packet loss is out of control I was told this is in part due to the type of copper as itâ��s a thicker gage and has more resistance then the modern stuff. It was only ever designed to take analogue phone calls. 6 yrs ago I paid over $300 to have the copper lines upgraded from the street into my house with broad band in mind. Clearly Telstra should have picked up where I left off and replaced the line from the street to the exchange

Wireless is faster for me then adsl2. Telstra has been run into the ground. That mexican should be focusing on the company he directs and not spending his time pissing on and pissing off public servents that will be around long after he has got back on the plane with a nice payout

Jilted Brett -- 31/01/08

Here's the real reason Lord Watchdog bags Telstra.

He use to be an IRC (chat) boy with them until he got kicked off the network for harrassment. Before this he licked everyone's behind even remotely associated with Telstra IRC.

Now he's been spurned and dishes out criticism against Telstra at every opportunity.

Too late he already ran away King Guard Dog -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094609)

He also tends to ender a discussion, throws around a few nasty words at Telstra and hopes people will listen. I doubt we will hear from him in this story as he knows his so called argument has been defeated, thinks no one knows who he is and will forget this embarrassment in the next few weeks.

Not so fast sunshine Lord Watchdog -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094627)

I'd hate to disappoint you but I haven't run away - I never run away.

Whilst I will agree that Helstra's IRC server is poorly managed the fact remains that when you find a better thing you switch to it. Your poor attempts to spam a service that is losing users every day is laughable. What is also laughable is people who claim to know me come on here and won't identify themselves.

"He use to be an IRC (chat) boy with them until he got kicked off the network for harrassment."

If you refer to the fact that I try to be truthful in my dealings with people and giving honest and compentent advice about the various corrupt conduct displayed by others on that network then I guess I was guilty of harassment. What I can do however is sleep well at night, knowing that the IRC network I co-own and run is kept in good condition. How's Helstra Chat these days? Four servers down to two, the operators (all of them) are clueless gits who don't have the courage to stand up to Helstra's condascending and monocratic way of dealing with people.

I never run away Anonymous -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094635)

Tell us "Lord" Watchdog, how many years of experience do you have in the telecommunication industry?

Are you or have you ever been a network engineer?

What does your hobby activity have to do with commercial operations of corporation such as Telstra?

His lordship - LOL SJT -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094635)

Truthful, honest and competent advice? Really!

To one who has only just entered this forum/blog towards the end and has read every comment, your comments appear to be most irrational and resemble nothing more than ramblings of a bitter child. You seem to be looking for retribution through taking cheap shots at others and simply cant help yourself (please typically respond with a barrage of adolescent expletives - now)!

By making such mindless gibes at hardworking people from any company, who are simply trying to do their jobs to the best of their ability and particularly by describing them as a gits, pretty much sums up your so called competence in just a few words. Also, by referring to Telstra as Helstra, obviously demonstrates a definite negativity towards the Telco and as such, any of your comments in relation to Telstra, should be viewed in this light and thus taken with a grain of salt. So truthful, honest and competent ~ all down the proverbial 'your lordship'!

Also you mention people who come here who know you, but who wont identify themselves? Most have written their pseudonym names, just as you have done! Difference is, they havent made a laughing stock of themselves, like you and made their biases and inadequacies so apparent, such as to readily identify themselves! But to me the outsider who doesnt know you (thank goodness) trying to correspond with one so irrational, in a rational way, will most likely prove to be totally fruitless?

So Mr. predictable, once again, typically whip out the keyboard and start your feverish reply, fresh with new expletives, as Im sure we all look forward to more enlightenment from the exalted one. BTW, thanks so much for the laughs ~ mate you are funnier than Rodney Rude ~ seriously!

But I guess any publicity is good publicity in relation to your co-run IRC network, hey!

You think so? Lord Watchdog -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094645)

I didn't mention the name of any IRC network. Helstra's fanboys did though. I guess that adequately identifies the modus operandi of myself and them. They have come here to spam a dying service run by the same mob that are allowing the copper telephone network to die. Any service, without naming any service in particular, run or owned by me is subject to a programme of continual improvement whereas Telstra is allowing the tumbleweeds to roll over theirs.

As for the decline in the quality of the debate here I don't mind if people come here and disagree with things I say. I respect everyone's right to their point of view but what I can't stand is when someone claims to know me and then takes the **** out of me without having the courage to make themselves known to me. The fact that this hasn't happened and probably isn't likely to shows that Helstra's arrogance rubs off on their blind followers like powder-coat on a rusty pool fence.

Brettt Anonymous -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094647)

Mr Watchdog (Brad Leet from Sydney according your DNS records),

Your opinion is somewhat blurred by the fact you've been excommunicated by Telstra themselves. This thread has bought this fact to the fore. Do you think you can gloat on your 'weblog' that you have 'won' this conversation and get away with it? Shows how much of a nob you are.

Secondly, you sound like you suffer from the Tolstoy Syndrome. That is, if you immerse your brain in so much falsities, in the end your going to believe in what your thinking, despite what evidence is bought to you by others.

How about you go and gloat on your IRC server to all your fan boys and leave this conversation to the experts.

So tell us are you a liar or not Anonymous -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094647)

reading above which one is it... you use Telstra cable and take calls from india or you don't?

Sounds familiar Anonymous -- 31/01/08

My line developed a fault a few months ago. Voice died and DSL quality/speed went way down.
A T$ contractor arrived within 24 hrs (on a Sunday!) thanks to priority assistance.

At first glance he said, "oh that pit's got problems". He showed me how the 50 pair cable feeding my area had been slashed at some stage in preceding 10 years and had been wrapped with plastic wrap and electrical tape.

He found the fault was where my line (one that was slashed) went into a scotch lok which was inside this wrapping. When the lok was wiggled the line just broke off. Corroded thanks to water permeating the "waterproofing".

His sig on the "pride tag" on the joining "bubble" in that pit showed he was the last one in there 2 years ago. He said he would have reported the issue at the time but unless another tech reported the same issue within 12 months the request for a permanent fix would lapse.

This indicates that T$ has a policy of not acting on problems unless its affecting more than one customer.

It's becoming clear that T$ want copper to die so they can push Next-G and FTTH to exclude other players.

So who pays? Aaron Saunders -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094620)

We all know the copper network is at the end of it's life, if we get another 20 years out if it we would have experienced a miracle.

Telstra will not invest heavily in it for 2 reasons.
The first being that copper in Australia will be phased out over the next couple of decades so any investment will need to be depreciated at such a rate that a profit on the investment would never be realised.
The second being any investment will simply be handed over to the competition at ACCC set rates that will not return a profit and that stifles the competition from wanting to invest in infrastructure themselves.

At the end of the day it all comes down to money.

Are you willing to pay a few extra dollars to ensure funds are re-invested in this infrastructure or to force the competition's hand and have them start investing some of their profits into providing their own and not just reselling Telstra's. Alternatively Telstra could supply the copper at say 50c to $1 a month cheaper but when there is a fault you have to pay for the technician to come out and fix it, that would be a $200 to $500 service call.

People talk of the good old days, NDC, government ownership, a flat earth and $20 a barrel old. Wake up and smell the crap you all spew out. There are over 680 registered (and so called) telecommunications companies in Australia and everyone seems to expect just one of these to prop up the others.

Split off Copper Anonymous -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094631)

If Telstra don't want the burden of maintaining copper, they should be all for splitting it off into a separate company that will provide and maintain that service for use by resellers at a reasonable price. But I assume you don't speak for Telstra, probably just own a few shares.

I'm not happy now paying $240 a year which is the bare minimum so that I have the opportunity to pay more for ADSL. Again Telstra take their cut at every stage of the connection from my exchange, out of Tasmania and to the rest of the world.

Don't cry poor for them. With at least 10 Million fixed lines in use across Australia, Telstra is raking in at LEAST $2.4 billion a year (@ $20/m min.) in line rental. The least they can do is keep the copper infrastructure, which they were gifted with, working for the benefit of all Australians until there are alternatives available.

At the end of the day Anonymous -- 31/01/08

consumers want cheap. there is a culture of cheap in australia, and you got it. companies either make profit thru pricing or thru cost reduction. so get over youselves. you get what you pay for

Pied Piper Lord WatchDog. Sydney (Admiral Lord) Lawrence. -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094622)

Irrespective of the dreams of Lord WatchDog and the hopeful fantasies of his Tel$tra Hater friends the fact is that Telstra is and will continue to be the superior and dominating Media Comms company in Australia and indeed the world.

Could His Excellency the Lord answer a suitable question with a sensible reply. I ask him how come Telstra is the most popular and respected (except by the lunatic fringe) Telco in Australia if its service and pricing is so bad?
To dream is good My Lord but reality is better.

By the way a million thanks to ZDNet one of whose Sites solved my longstanding CHKDSK Defrag problems. Many experts were stumped but ZDNet come up trumps. Thanks muchly.

Obvious Anonymous -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094668)

"Could His Excellency the Lord answer a suitable question with a sensible reply. I ask him how come Telstra is the most popular and respected (except by the lunatic fringe) Telco in Australia if its service and pricing is so bad?"

I think the answer that you're looking for is called advertising. Advertising which quite clearly prays on the ignorant.

Yes advertising Lord Watchdog -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094675)

"I think the answer that you're looking for is called advertising. Advertising which quite clearly prays on the ignorant."

Yes, their advertising does prey on the ignorant. To be fair to Telstra they have the right to advertise their products like anyone else but there is another issue here - previous market dominance and the momentum that comes with it. There would be a lot of people in Australia who simply don't know they have a choice or that there are only a few choices and Telstra tries to take advantage of this all the time.

You are quick to answer when you feel like it Lord BULL Dog Anonymous -- 31/01/08 (in reply to #320094682)

So tell us are you a liar or not?

reading above which one is it... you use Telstra cable and take calls from India or you don't?

Yes I confess Lord Watchdog -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094699)

I actually like and admire Telstra and only act like a bitter and spiteful person as I run a service that competes with Telstra and it would not like good if I said nice things. And yes I do use Telstra services when I can as they are normally of a very high standard.

It might be 2 months early but April Fools!

The April Fool is you Lord Watchdog -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094746)

ZDNet should invoke user registration here I think. Then again, the people who can see through Telstra's nonsense will notice that the post above is a fraud.

Pay rise for the punce at the top though... Anonymous -- 31/01/08

Seen it happen... not in sydney though.. lunch wrapping used to waterproof new connections..
What a farce Telstra management are... how long can this joke go on for?
Then again, look at the NSW Govt joke... The local councils joke.. The embarassing jerks we now have as Fed leaders now...
Really, it is not funny at all, it's just a reflection on how stupid Australian voters are. Very sad.

Look for the silver lining. Sydney Lawrence -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094714)

Anonymous you have my sympathies. You would be one of the saddest and most self defeating individuals I have ever encountered.

We live in one of the greatest, if not the greatest, countries in the world and still you whinge. To be living in Australia is to have won the lottery of life. Still you cry.

Perhaps the plastic wrap you despair about happens to be the most efficient way to waterproof the cable. Us Aussies are good at invention. Still you complain.

Sol and Team Telstra position this great Australian company for worlds best practice and the provision of excellent services for Australians and yet more negativity from you.

My only assumption from this is either you are a bitter and twisted person who probably has a declining financial interest in a Telstra opponent or you are just one of those sad losers in life. Don't wish to insult but you do sound in a bad way.

Another vitriol Lord Watchdog -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094734)

SL, Why are you repeatedly abusing people? You lot who are supporting Telstra in their wicked ways have done nothing but hurl personal attacks at everyone else here and it is not necessary.

"Perhaps the plastic wrap you despair about happens to be the most efficient way to waterproof the cable."

It is not an efficient way to do anything. Condensation buildup inside the bag will do further damage, not reduce it. How many languages do I have to say this in?

"My only assumption from this is either you are a bitter and twisted person who probably has a declining financial interest in a Telstra opponent or you are just one of those sad losers in life."

I would say that unfortunately the real losers, in a financial sense, are the people that invested in T2 shares when they were valued at around the $8.00 mark. The current share price is about $4.50 and it has been as low as about $3.80. Show me where investing in Telstra has been the mark of a true winner.

"Sol and Team Telstra position this great Australian company for worlds best practice and the provision of excellent services for Australians and yet more negativity from you."

They position the company, or should be trying to, for the benefit of shareholders. Like most large companies they have the volumes of scale in place so they don't have to give a rats about their punters.

Tiem for you to take the blinkers off and see the whole picture.

True winner? Anonymous -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094747)

Show me where investing in Telstra has been the mark of a true winner?

Simple:
T3 @ $2.
Currently $2.84.
42% increase.
Add the 28c (2 x 14c) franked dividend p.a.
= true winner.

Seems telecoms isn't your only weak subject? Or do you simply babble before you think?

Watchdog low on IQ. Air Chief Marshal Sir Sydney Lawrence. DSO and Bar. -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094756)

Lord Watchdog did you take the trouble to read the Post to which my remarks were addressed?

If you consider that expression to be from a well adjusted person I question your powers of observation and even your mental capacity.

You highlight our concerns re Telstra share price which will improve when all the freeloading parasites are compelled to pay their own way.

True Winner? Anonymous -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094756)

Anonymous - I think you should re-visit your perspective on this issue.

The T3 price you quote was the INITIAL instalment price. At the end of May 2008 a further instalment of $1.60 per share is due for payment by the private investors (i.e., non-institutional investors) that opted into the purchase of T3 shares. That means the total share cost to these investors is $3.60 per share.

Do the math - your purchase cost is $3.60 for an article you can only sell at $2.54? Sounds like a big loss to me, and a bad investment.

Do you still think it should be classed as a winner?

True Winner? Ian -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094762)

Oops - just noticed a small typo - mea culpa.

I stated a sell price of $2.54, when I meant to type $2.84 (the 5 is right below the 8 on the number pad - seems my fingers have gone dyslexic).

Nevertheless, it still represents a significant differential - one that I believe makes the T3 shares a very poor choice, even with the $0.28 dividend factored in (which, as far as I can tell from Telstra's publicly issued documents, is not guaranteed beyond the first 12 months after the initial instalment - it looks to be simply a sweetener to mollify investors or perhaps induce them into purchasing shares thinking it was a good deal).

Poor choice - can you count? Anonymous -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094764)

Use simple sums my friend.

A buyer buys 10000 T3 shares @ $2 = -$20000

Has already received $0.28 dividend for each share = +$2800

Sells them today at $2.84 = +$28400

$28400 + $2800 - $20000 = a profit of $11200!

Never mind the $1.60 owing in a few months time, we are talking about now - it is very simple!

Yes, very poor choice indeed - LOL!

I think you need to count again Anonymous -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094767)

T3 effectively gave purchasers the ability to pay for the shares in installments. The shares as previously stated were purchased for $3.60.

So..
Person buys shares 10000 shares at $20,000
Receives Dividend 0.28 x 1000 = $2,800
Sells them at $2.84 = $28,400
Total = $11,200

In May customer owes $16,000

Total Remaining = -$4,800

Woot!

I think you need... Anonymous -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094783)

Mate, please just get your facts straight, because you come here to tell us "how it is, when you have absolutely no idea yourself."

The additional $1.60 "IS ONLY PAYABLE IF YOU KEEP THE SHARES" - we just sold them today for $2.84 (remember it was only today).

SO THE $16000 DOES NOT APPLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you still don't get it and would like me to explain in further detail how T3 Instalment receipts (TLSCA.IRS) shares relate to TLSFPO shares and where the $1.60 comes into it, please just ask?

Don't just talk without substance!

By selling today, we are $11200 up!

Woot Woot

Poor Example James Bell -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094786)

Your example is poor as one would quite easily assume you are posting here as a loyal Telstra supporter who wouldn't have dreamt of selling their beloved Telstra shares so soon after purchasing. The fact remains that an overwhelming majority of Telstra shareholders have either already been or will be burnt!

Based on your evidence there is very little to support that investing in Telstra is a smart decision (as is investing in just about any telco at present)!

And I forgot to add... James Bell -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094795)

If you were a broker you'd be advising anyone with T3 shares to sell based on your single example. Not exactly demonstrating confidence in the company now is it!

Poor example Anonymous -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094795)

No my example is not poor, it is factual! Your powers of perception or basic math seem poor though?

It wasn't neither a comment defending or attacking Telstra, it was simply sums! Which had you cared to read the previous comments, you would have seen was in response to a question asking - 'Show me where investing in Telstra has been the mark of a true winner'? So that's simply all I did, nothing more nothing less! Just sums showing + 42%, so!

I would have thought to most, my sums were just that, sums! But not you. So just where have you plucked some of your cospiracies from? 'Based on your evidence there is little to support'? What evidence? I wasn't suggesting anything, just doing basic sums! 'Loyal Telstra supporter who wouldn't have dreamt selling, blah, blah - wtf has that got to do with the sums? And the icing, 'If you were a broker you'd be advising anyone with T3 shares to sell based on your single example. Not exactly demonstrating confidence in the company now is it"! Hello, it was just sums! My you overreact!

So come down from your high horse and tell me, are the sums wrong? If so and you can demonstrate how, I will admit it and apologise! Simple!

If not, one can only assume you are simply a TTTT, who just doesn't have it in him to accept facts, even supported by actuals, when these facts are Telstra positive?

I do agree investing in telecoms is risky at the moment and that T2 shareholders have struggled badly. But again that wasn't the reason for my sums!

In case you still don't get it, it was all about sums. That's why I have mentioned sums about 500 times, so that you'd know not to read between the lines. So please now feel free to re-read my sums on face value and leave your conspiracy theories elsewhere.

Up 42% - THE END!

Look for the silver lining Anonymous -- 02/02/08 (in reply to #320094734)

Read half your reply and started to nod off...
Its through floaters like you who happily accept everthing that is dished out to them as "the best there is" that we end up with the crap we do,.
I have lived in other countries my friend (i bet you have not) and i do know we have it good here but that is no reason to sit back with a grin and accept crap all the time...
Enjoy your Commodore that you would drive like the other "sheep".

A smattering of intelligence Mel Sommersberg -- 01/02/08

Lord Watchdog, I think you are wasting your time trying to reason with this lot (Telstra supporters). The article on your website has obviously attracted part of the Internet's idiot brigade and they obviously don't realise that constructive debate doesn't include the miasma of personal diatribe we are witnessing at the moment.

Your comments have been well researched and well presented and you have done well to ensure that your argument hasn't been reduced to the level of some of the other posts here.

I won't be buying into the debate surrounding the subject matter because the standard of some of the comments and the apparent over-use of the username "Anonymous" has just about butchered this thread to the point where many people wouldn't know who was for or against anyway.

Amazing John Hamilton -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094787)

Each and every day I look at the stories posted on this site and when I have time I try and read the posts, I generally focus on the teco stories as this is where I have spent over 30 years of my working life as a as an engineer, as a designer and a couple of years as a field technician. About 15 of these were with Telecom and the rest with various other telecommunications entities.

One thing I notice with everyone's comments is that when the discussion is based on fact and on the story there is generally some solid arguments made by each party, more often then not the Telstra supporters seem to have little or no constructive replies to their posts. When the discussion is "hijacked" as you put it is seems to be by the same people (the watchdog and Mr Styles) and they normally want to bring irrelevant and often personal issues into this.

The watchdog does raise a very valid point, introduce registration so we know who these people are (show their real names please), what types of topics they target and cross reference for ambiguity and lies (as the watchdog appears to have has done in this article).

There should also be intervention by the author of the article to remove posts that attack individuals, that simply say company X sucks (or similar) or that do not include valid contact details.

Yes, amazing Mel Sommersberg -- 01/02/08 (in reply to #320094798)

For the record John, I am known to some of the people who have posted in this thread and that is why I have chosen to remain on the fence - people I know have posted on both sides of the debate and as far as I can see one extra voice either way is going to achieve little in this thread.

I have been employed by Telstra/Telecom/PMG's Department as a linesman and also employed by Telstra through Skilled Engineering in pretty much the same role for quite a number of years. I have friends and relatives who worked in similar roles and also for VisionStream and Optus Vision when the cable networks were being rolled out. Whilst I am almost ready to retire, nothing said here is new to me.

I do disagree with your opinion on who has hikacked this thread though. Lord Watchdog's original post was short, relevant and to the point. It was only when a number of other posters used childish plays on his username and brought up old, stale and irrelevant issues regarding a chat server and Lord Watchdog's own website that things started to get out of hand. If you review this thread in its chronological order and disregard any allegiances you have to any of the points of view here then you will see the same thing as I have.

I agree that a high profile forum such as this one on ZDnet should also require user registration. You suggest real names be used and whilst there is no harm in that there is no way of verifying whether a name is real or not. This is why very few forums require real names. Certainly none of those I am a member of do.

I agree - to a point. SJT -- 02/02/08 (in reply to #320094806)

Mel, I agree with both you and John in relation to this threads denigration. However, like John I blame the likes of Lord Watchdog.

I come to many of these blogs/forums to have a giggle and perhaps throw my two bobs worth in! But following my perception of his many disrespectful comments, felt obligated to reply to him in a rather disrespectful manner (refer above: his lordship - LOL) to purely give him some of his own back. Perhaps he is most knowledgable, but calling average hardworking people (at Telstra) clueless gits and referring to Telstra as Helstra, clearly shows he is unable to comment without bias!

Strangely though Mel, although you suggest these threads not to be a tool for name calling, you too have clearly done so yourself? Claiming anyone with an opposing opinion to Lord Watchdog (and apparently you too, as you are seemingly a fan of the watchdogs website) as "the idiot brigade"! Strange double standards?

Mate, the Watchdog had much to say, particularly when he could readily jump on someone with opposing views. However I note on a number of ocassions when asked to clarify his statements he could not do so? Also, when asking for examples to disprove certain points, when provided, he again fell strangely silent.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and their opinion should be respected and replied to as so. But if the Watchdog chooses to live by the sword, well...

Clarification Lord Watchdog -- 03/02/08 (in reply to #320094824)

If people had to clarify every comment they made here the thread would be about six times as long. It would be far better for those seeking clarification not to let their emotions dominate their motives here.

However in this one instance I will highlight one obvious error you made and clarify it.

When I uttered the term "clueless git" I was not referring to Telstra linesmen but the operators on Telstra's chat service, admittedly in reply to an off-topic post. They are not employees of Telstra and I am sure that if anyone here wished to find out for sure they could ask one of them.

heh - Lesson learned: next time I will refrain from replying to off-topic comments. :-p

Feedback policy Jo Best -- 04/02/08 (in reply to #320094798)

Hi John,

We don't ask users to include their contact details or real names as a matter of course because it discourages people from posting, which we obviously don't want to do.

We do have a policy on removing posts: if a post is deemed genuinely offensive, for example racist or sexist, or is illegal, we'll take it down. If you see one of those posts, please report them using the 'report offensive comment' option at the bottom of the post.

For posts along the lines of 'company x sucks', people are welcome to share their opinion, even if it's not the most incisive opinion in the world.

We would ask however that posters keep to the topic in question and avoid personal attacks.

signal loss when it rained Anonymous -- 02/02/08

When I once had signal loss during rainy times, the Telstra tech showed be that they had this big bundle of wires taped up inside a Coke bottle. There was a bit of water which had got past the tape, so they added some more tape and the problem seemed better. I think the tech's name was Alby Mangles.

Well the Alby Mangles bit was made up, but not the coke bottle bit.

Problem solved Anonymous -- 04/02/08 (in reply to #320094825)

Thanks to global warming it doesn't rain anymore. Cross this off the todo list.

Long live unbiodegradible plastic coke bottles.

doesn't rain? Anonymous -- 05/02/08 (in reply to #320094920)

i guess you don't live in sydney, which has been more than a little damp over the past week...

Lucrative David Poole -- 08/02/08

Every time we report a fault, we pay for the call, I tried to do it without paying as I had good info for them, no chance. So the more faults, longer they take to fix, more money they make. So just buy the shares and shut up.

Sure 25c goes a long way Anonymous -- 17/02/08 (in reply to #320095166)

Lets work it out.

1. Call center staff at $40k pa, $800 per week, $160 per day, $20 per hour, ~$0.33c per minute
2. Office space, power & equipment $5k pa, ~$0.04c per minute
3. Technician, van, fuel & equipment lets say $2 per minute.

Your fault that generates a 5 minute discussion with a call center operator and technician going out for 1 hour plus 20 minutes driving each way just cost Telstra $201.85

Assuming the 25c is pure profit they just lost $201.60.

Based on that I can see why they would want plenty of faults ... not!

I would guess on average every phone line has one fault every 10 years (some more, some less, my house has had 2 in the 18 years I have lived here), this means every phone line has an average maintenance cost of around $1.75 per month to Telstra not including ongoing work to try and avoid faults in the first place.

Sydney Lawrence Anonymous -- 17/02/08

Does anyone get the feeling the above is sucking up in hopes to reap some of Sols big fortune.

Telstra had its day with copper.... in years to come everything will be wireless so who gives a rats about copper

Telstra and Optus will lead the way with wireless networks

Everything wireless Anonymous -- 17/02/08 (in reply to #320095674)

Wake up, the inherent technical limitations and issues with wireless technology will never replace physical infrastructure.

How will people with latency sensitive or bandwidth guarantee requirements survive? Businesses need in ground services with certain guarantees.

I agree copper has had it's day but this will be replaced with fiber based services or if some of the technical discussions about increasing copper capability is true you may find renewed investment in copper and the discussion about the death of copper within 10 years becomes as big a myth as the G9 or Opel consortium's.

Two is company, hundreds a disaster. Sydney Lawrence -- 18/02/08 (in reply to #320095674)

Anonymous, like yourself I would not be human if I did not have hope to better my situation with regard to health, happiness and perhaps a little wealth.

Sol however, can rest easy in the knowlege that I have no desire to attempt to relieve him of his hard earned riches. When the day comes that we see the end of copper I would like to have a share in the amount of money it's scrap value will bring Telstra.

I totally agree that the reduction to two major tel-co companies, to alone supply Australia with the desired services at reasonable prices, would be referable to the hundreds of mish-mash minnows that demand subsidy without investment.

Not all wireless Anonymous -- 18/02/08

Whilst there will be some wireless services, fibre will be the way of the future. Copper is way to expensive to become a big network provider

25c goes a long way.. Sure Anonymous -- 18/02/08

From experience I can tell you from Optus side when sending techs out the whole process is very costly. Maintenance On call centres, rent of buildings, paying the faults staff, paying dispatch staff and finally the tech... it goes on. Basically per truck roll it costs Optus $400+

Telstra I have no idea but i'm sure its similar

Next time you get advised you will be charged $99 ($105 from telstra) if the fault was caused by yourself or your equipment shut up and stop wondering why telcos cant replace the line your dog chewd up for free

Snicker Anonymous -- 16/03/08 (in reply to #320095681)

I've read this entire topic from top to bottom. It's been truly epic and border-line lulzy.
I'd like to thank all participants for their macho crap-slinging arms and like to point out that anyone can sound like a collage professor on the internet.

Oh yes, I changed my Telstra account name from my grandmother's to my own and lost the net for ten days then had to pay Telstra 100 dollars for the privilege.
Thanks!

Ex Telstra Liney Anonymous -- 25/03/08

I have worked for both Telecom/Telstra and as a sub contractor for others; still working on faults in the Customer Access Network for around 14 years. The biggest problem in the network has been from the corrosion caused by a water barrier gel that was employed by Telstra for about 8 years. It was supposed to stop the ingress of water from the cable back into the joint. Over time the copper corrodes where the gel stops below the joint inside the cable. The reason for the bags in the network is usually the Liney having to cut below the joint to bypass the corroded section of cable. The official position from Telstra management for years was that you couldn't cut below the joint and bag it; but sticking their heads in the sand and telling us we could not use plastic bags was just relieving themselves of the responsibility. If the cable is too short to remake the joint, or the cable is wet, or the cable is direct buried and not in pipe, or the joint is larger than a 30 pair cable (which would then be remade later as a project) there is NO OTHER WAY to keep the customer working then to cut below the joint and put the opened cable and existing joint into a bag.
It's either that, or the customer has no service or crap service. As for the cables on farm fences etc. it is the same deal. It may take 3 or 4 weeks to have a project created and approved to replace cabling for hundreds of metres into farms or along driveways; in order to give the customer service, the Liney would run a temporary cable to get them working, and enter a report to have the original cable replaced. Once this is done, the Liney has no control over how long this will take; but at least they have tried their best to give the customer a service.

Whathe! Anonymous -- 24/06/08

I think this will be the last post i ever make about all this BS. I'm so sick of the mindless crap i read from like 90% of the people intent on fixing the blame and not the problem.

How about this, the next time you pick up the phone to dial 000 you get a recording that says;

"Telstra regrets to inform you that all the money your paying to our competitors to operate a network that was 50 yrs old in places BEFORE it was a private companies job to maintain, just isn't worth our time. If your so socially retarded that you cant find a single person within a 2 minute dash that will let you into their home to borrow a working telephone to make an emergency call, OR you live in a rural area at the end of more than 25km of copper cable that was buried at the Australian taxpayers expense more than 30 years ago and has developed a fault deep underground, please try dialing 112 on your mobile. If you were 'unfortunate' enough not to do some research when making the major purchase of a new and much improved mobile handset, and it is not equivalent in reception quality to your previous handset, you can use your spine as an external antenna by neatly placing the handset in the folds of your lower intestine. Telstra would like to apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. ..........To report a fault, press 1. To..........."

Fact: Telstra did not CHOOSE to be privatized, it was the Australian Governments decision to sell it.

Phew! Feel like I've been constipated since birth and a great weight has been pushed from my colon. If anyone can direct me to a site of intelligent debate and rhetoric on the state of Australia's Telecommunications and Internet services, I may just reconsider. The above is not the norm for me, I am usually interested in solutions, how about you?