Telstra to sue Coonan over CDMA threat

By Jo Best, ZDNet Australia
11 September 2007 05:23 PM
Tags: canberra, cdma, coonan, court, government, sue, telstra, minister

Telstra is keeping its lawyers busy: the telco has decided to take the government to court once again, this time over the planned closure of its CDMA network.

Telstra said in a statement that it has begun proceedings in the Federal Court on the matter, accusing the Communications Minister Helen Coonan of "hamper[ing] the Next G network broadband deployment by prejudging the outcome of her consultation with Telstra on the draft CDMA licence condition".

Telstra had planned to close its CDMA network in January of next year, by which time it claims its Next G network will offer equal or better coverage.

However, the Minister ruled last month that Telstra will not be allowed to switch off the CDMA network without government permission, after repeatedly expressing concerns over Next G's performance.

On announcing the licence condition last month, Coonan said: "I have just spent the last six weeks on the road across Australia and based on the level of frustration in the community, it is clear that this issue needs Telstra's urgent and genuine attention."

Telstra said it has filed documents with the court which show the Minister ruled on blocking the closure before the telco had given "submissions and evidence" on why the obstruction was not needed. Telstra Country Wide group MD, Geoff Booth, said in a statement: -By law the Minister was required to consider the matter with an open mind and recent comments by her and her colleagues show that this was clearly not the case." Should the legal challenge be successful, Coonan will not be able to issue the licence condition until Telstra's objections are heard.

The Minister's Office did not respond to request for comment.

The Communications Minister and Telstra are already engaged in another court battle, over funding for the recently announced AU$1 billion bush WiMax network. In that case, Telstra alleges that only the winning bidder for the network, OPEL, was made aware that an extra AU$300 million in funding was available for the scheme. The telco also accused Coonan of refusing to make documents pertaining to how the tender was selected available for public scrutiny.

Talkback 28 comments

    If Telstra Win this will be a win for the people Anonymous -- 11/09/07

    Coonan really is the worst and backward minded communication minister in Australian history, it is because of ministers like Coonan that we are getting further and further behind the rest of the world. As a country we hardly rate in the broadband speed take-up. As for delaying the closure of the Analog TV Network, well you decide but it all goes to show how Australia is becoming the backwater of the information technology world. As I never thought I would agree with Telstra but this it one that they need to win if Australia is serious about staying a first world country.

    First they need to make Next G available to the masses Anonymous -- 12/09/07 (in reply to #320085972)

    Working as a computer tech, I had someone come in with a laptop running vista and a telstra (not bigpond) next G usb wireless device, they couldn't install it using the software provided, and low and behold, on the package it had written, supports 2000/XP, now most new laptop pc's come with vista, its almost impossible to get XP unless their is an option to downgrade yet, given the fact that telstra are touting that their Next G products are going to replace CDMA yet, they haven't released software to work with vista, even though Vista was out before Next G started roll out is just disgusting. There was a way to get this Next G device to work on vista, I had to follow directions from the company who made the device for telstra, and the method is involved and way out of the league all but the most tech savy PC users. (knowing where to find the directions was also not documented anywhere), unless telstra start supporting their own new devices properly, then removing CDMA from the community before all these problems have been sorted satisfactorily (which will need to be confirmed by the government), then it is a step forward, I for one would rather be on something that works all the time, than some new technology that breaks all the time, or cant get working because telstra won't support it, and all the while your paying for the "service" which im sure has a clause that says they won't refund moneys for any downtimes.

    Stick to the argument Anonymous -- 12/09/07 (in reply to #320085997)

    If you want to bag one device how about we bag some others.

    Most HP Printers had to wait until July before they released an approved driver.

    Many mobile phones on the market that come with CD software are still not listed as Vista compatible, these include Nokia, Motorola, Samsung and others.

    My mums washing machine doesn't have a Vista ready sticker, shall we blame Telstra for this as well?

    As a consumer I would notify the retailer of what I would consider unusual and even today Vista is still the exception, not the rule.

    Prior to July most manufacturers were struggling with getting updated drivers and your comment about XP no loner available on new devices is incorrect as many suppliers are still providing this as an option due to the backlash at Vista.

    Yes you hit the mark right on. HP does suck too. Anonymous -- 12/09/07 (in reply to #320086008)

    HP should have updated their drivers i agree, that doesn't mean that the Largest Telco in Australia can slack off and say, well if some people dont' release vista drivers, we can just sit on our hands and wait till we get enough complaints before we start work on it.

    Bigpond have the same devices, yet have vista capable drivers and work arounds for problems they have encountered listed and supported on their website, Telstra have none, but wait, isn't bigpond the Internet side of telstra? but of course bigponds software won't work with telstras devices, wtf is up with that?

    CDMA Anonymous -- 15/09/07 (in reply to #320086012)

    Don't care about HP, Your mothers washing machine or what operating system your laptop runs. Simply put next g don't work in the bush. lots of drop outs and more impotrantly, only one provider. Watch out for the monopoly.

    CDMA Anonymous -- 17/09/07 (in reply to #320086222)

    Just right - bag Telstra because they were the only ones to have the guts to spend $1B to get first rate technology to the bush. Why don't you bag the other mobile operators that won't invest in their networks.

    Telstra Spends Big Anonymous -- 18/09/07

    I am truly glad that Telstra has in fact spent so much on such an inefective system. ineffective due to significant areas of at best "shady" coverage (try outback NT). After all its abouut time that the monopolistic entity that is Telstra spent some money on infrastructure of their own. After all Wasn't it us the tax payers that provided the money to buy all their current exchange buildings, all the original cables and fibres? yet we still have to pay, pay, pay. And God forbid if a possible competitor wants to install cables of their own. Telstra refuse access to the poles we the taxpayer paid for and to their cable pits and trenches dug by our hard earned dollars. If Telstra wants a fair go , how about they extend it to everyone else as well.

    You Pay a Lot Because It Costs A Lot Anonymous -- 22/09/07 (in reply to #320086345)

    We the people did own Telstra, all that it had, and was and did, but, T1...T2...T3...SOLD. We got the money and those who bought shares got Telstra, and all the infrastructure, assets, technology and profits. I own some Telstra shares. Telstra is no longer a public service, it is the property of the shareholders. You should have no expectation to take my money and think you still own Telstra and it's assets. You have no right to take my property without fair compensation. Telstra as a Government corporation was the best chance rural Australia had of getting services. No other company would operate services at such a loss. No more. If you want services provided where it makes no economic sense to provide them, go see your local Member of Parliament. Why do you think the Government just stumped up a billion dollars for rural broadband? It was because no company would do it without subsidies. I think it would have been better spent extending the existing 3G networks. A billion dollars buys a lot of base stations, maybe even enough for you.
    If you have CDMA coverage now, you will have NextG coverage before CDMA is turned off. Every site with a CDMA base station has a NextG base station, and many more where there is no CDMA base station. The NextG network is the best mobile network this country has ever had bar none, and it will get even better. I know how good the NextG network because it is my business. The other carriers can provide competition any time they want. All they have to do is spend a billion dollars and hope they can get a better return than spending the money somewhere else.

    3G swifty Simon Goslett -- 24/09/07 (in reply to #320086594)

    I'm glad someone thinks so highly about Telstra and their 3G network. I'm certainly glad that I'm not locked in with Telstra as I like CDMA and have no need of anything else. Shutting down the CDMA network is just an excuse to charge more for the same service (or a worse service if you believe users rather than vested interests)
    3G was kicked off ten years ago as a marketing exercise to generate revenues for vendors and carriers and never had a compelling argument to support it.
    My hope is that the woeful customer service of the past ten years will force consumers to become educated on telecommunications and they will cease to be hoodwinked into paying more for less (or services they really don't want) and the gouging becomes a practice of the past.

    Was NextG new or just an upgrade? Anonymous -- 27/09/07 (in reply to #320086594)

    Rumour has it that the reason it took 10 months to roll out nextG was because it was just an upgrade of the old CDMA network as it uses the same base stations, the same frequency (850Mhz), and even the same antennas.

    The $900 million bill shows us how sheep are fleeced in Australia and makes Telstra shareholders very happy.

    Was NextG new or just an upgrade? Anonymous -- 27/09/07 (in reply to #320086845)

    If it was an upgrade then how are both networks working at the same time?

    They paid for the 850Mhz spectrum band and don't want to throw it out simply because an old technology will no longer need it.

    HSPA is not CDMA, the network was built using the same physical base stations and once the CDMA networ is switched off some of the equipment will be put back in to use elsewhere ... but not until the CDMA is switched off.

    The simple fact is it is Telstra's money to spend any way they deem suitable and I don't see them putting their hand out asking for taxpayer funds to build a wireless network that will cost twice as much and cover 30% less land mass.

    Was NextG new or just an upgrade? Anonymous -- 27/09/07 (in reply to #320086849)

    Yes it is Telstra's money to spend, but they seem to spend a lot of it on lawyers and marketting rather than fixing that boody NextG thing.

    NextG could have been good if it were not left to a bunch of corporate flunkies to build it.

    Shutup and fix it Telstra! Anonymous -- 26/09/07

    It's all marketting hype which Telstra seems to spend lots of money on rather than fixing the bloody thing. I noticed that harvey norman is paying people $200 to connect to nextG - that says it all on how bad it really is.

    Just shutup and fix it Telstra!

    $200 rebate and 3G Swifty steve -- 26/09/07

    Having had a CDMA phone and pc card I have taken the rebate to buy one new Next G phone. A payment to switch is not what it is for, it is to rebate me for getting a new device. How can I complain when I now carry one less device as it doubles as a modem, no extra power supplies as it charges from my laptop and lowers my phone bill as I am not paying for 2 services.

    No compelling argument you say, I use to connect via CDMA on the road or in my hotel room and sit and wait for my e-mails to download or enter my daily logs into our CRM, it would take ages waiting for the screen to refresh and I would have to enter 30 or 40 different screens each afternoon meaning I could spend 2 hours or more in front of my computer each day, now it is under an hour every day meaning I am planning additional meetings each day. My data usage hasn't increased because I do not surf the web or mess around on the internet when traveling so my bill hasn't increased.

    I may not be the biggest Telstra fan but for me this is a massive winner.

    Another way of working Anonymous -- 27/09/07 (in reply to #320086812)

    Wouldn't it be smarter to send your e-mails/logs to a server with a high speed internet connection and remote into it when you are on the road? This would only take seconds rather than hours. Many tools are available to do this e.g. VNC, Norton, PCAnywhere, etc.

    Or is coverage of the NextG network not at Telstra's claimed 98%.

    Read the comments steve -- 27/09/07 (in reply to #320086843)

    My e-mail synchronises with my companies exchange server (VPN client) and at the same time I have to visit an intranet site where I enter my activities. With CDMA I had to wait for one to finish before I could start another because the speed was comparatively slow. Even doing one task each screen took 30 seconds plus just to come up before I could enter data into the different fields, now each screen is only a couple of seconds.

    To date I have been through much of regional Tasmania, South Australia, Western Australia and the NT and have not failed to get coverage once when I needed it. I have even been able to get coverage at 11,800 meters on a flight from SA to WA and this was to base stations on the ground.

    Yes but... Anonymous -- 27/09/07 (in reply to #320086851)

    I still hold hope for NextG as technically HSDPA is proven. Your story is imppressive with respect to data rates, my experience with NextG is that once you get connected data wise (not voice) then chances of a drop-out are rare.

    But there are serious problems that telstra needs to fix. Even though the network is faster we still talk at the same speed.

    WCDMA limitations Anonymous -- 03/10/07 (in reply to #320086885)

    One of the root causes of perceived no coverage in a WCDMA (NextG) network is the degredation of signal power limitations and signal to noise ratio after all the coding algorithms have been applied when someone appears to "hog" the base station's available spectrum.

    It's this area that Telstra needs to address to fix it's coverage problems.

    BTW, what happenned to Sol T's 200km range base station? Is it working, even just a little bit?

    200KM works well but not on every base station Anonymous -- 03/10/07 (in reply to #320087139)

    They have only increased the range to certain areas that are suitable, altitude, surrounding terrain etc. 5000 base stations with this only suitable for possibly 500 but these are typically in areas that never had anything before..

    Get your facts right 3GSM (what Next G uses) is not WCDMA and does not have the same issues you are talking about

    Why has Voda and Optus also chosen this technology instead of WCDMA. The difference is that Telstra has invested in developing enhanced capabilities, the patients are owned by them & their partners and access to these should not be provided to competing domestic companies without reasonable return.

    You might have some technical knowledge but it looks like it is just enough to provide you with a disillusioned belief of real understanding.

    correct your comment thomas -- 03/10/07 (in reply to #320087155)

    wcdma is used with 3gsm, it is the frequency spectrum used. two bands are used 2100 for short distances and areas with nearby base stations, 850 for longer distances and provides coverage up to 200km. the idea behind inreasing the range is to increase coverage over water and in regional areas where there there will not be many users and as such not subject to cell fading.

    So much coverage why the lack of service? Anonymous -- 08/10/07 (in reply to #320087162)

    A 200km range base station covers an area of 125,000 square kilometres.

    500 base stations of this type will cover 63 million square kilometres.
    That is 8 times the size of Australia which is only 7.7 million square kilometres in size. This is also 1/8 the surface area of the planet which is 505 million square kilometres.

    Even if we were to cover an area twice the size of Australia say 15 million square kilometres we could do it with only 120 base stations with a 200km range or alternatively using 500 base stations that have a 98 km range – which is probably the more likely scenario.

    With so much coverage being postulated here why do people in the country still get a bad reception to NextG? Because the issue is not coverage but more the corporate flunkies that built the network - rather badly.

    Something smells Sol T, I mean, fishy here, and as has been mentioned before, Telstra should shut up and fix it as NextG has the potential to be a good network for customers to voluntarily move to.

    What a load of garbage Mr So much coverage? Anonymous -- 08/10/07 (in reply to #320087404)

    In metro areas where coverage and distance is not an issue they use 2100Mhz services with a much lower distance between base stations (1-3km typically)

    In regional areas they use 850Mhz with coverage extending up to 50km depending on the location and population.

    In remote areas they use 850Mhz with much more directional antennas providing up to 200km range but the dispersion of this will be 5 or 10 degrees so the 200km distance is in targeted and is directional at selected locations.

    In terms of coverage issues, I have heard a lot of rhetoric and not much in the way of fact. Most people complaining have done so due to incorrect device choice or political reasons.

    The simple fact is that for every one user that may be experiencing less reception under Next G compared to CDMA there is dozens that are experiencing improved coverage and many that have coverage for the first time. If these people who are complaining go to the Telstra web site http://www.telstra.com.au/nextg/index.html they can lodge a blackspot notification and Telstra will investigate and try to fix, if you simply complain to your neighbour over a beer it will never improve.

    There's a thought Anonymous -- 10/10/07 (in reply to #320087409)

    harvey norman should be pedalling NextG handsets with free beer.

    I'll drink to that! Anonymous -- 11/10/07 (in reply to #320087576)

    Except that I don't have any spare change after paying my phone bill.

    McNextG Anonymous -- 11/10/07 (in reply to #320087641)

    Telstra should trademark the term "98% Coverage" just like macca's have done with the term "100% pure beef".

    They should also put out a warning label just in case - "Not fit for human consumption".

    If Telstra is so bad Anonymous -- 01/10/07

    Winner - Best Broadband Supplier, 2007 Australian Telecoms Awards

    Winner - Best Wireless Broadband, 2007 Australian Personal Computer Internet Technology Awards

    Winner - Internet Technology of the Year, 2007 Australian Personal Computer Internet Technology Awards

    Denial is a river in Africa Anonymous -- 03/10/07 (in reply to #320087046)

    Most people who pay bills forTelstra services think they are bad.

    Most organisations that get money from Telstra think they are good.

    Keep rowing Anonymous -- 03/10/07 (in reply to #320087138)

    YOu forgot to add most companies that wholesale from Telstra quietly love the prices that are set by the ACCC by out aloud complain they are still too high.

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