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Telstra to fight separation Bill

update Telstra said today it will oppose the passage of the government's Bill which would allow it to force separation on the big telecommunications company.

David Thodey, not so toothless, it seems (Credit: Telstra)

In its submission to the Senate Standing Committee looking into the proposed legislation amendments, Telstra said the new legislation would stop Australia achieving the National Broadband Network (NBN), reduce competition, harm consumers, not necessarily result in industry reform and potentially destroy value for the 1.4 million Australian shareholders who purchased Telstra shares from the government.

"Therefore, Telstra has no choice but to oppose the passage of the Bill in its current form," the telco said. "It is unworkable."

Why Telstra didn't want the Bill
It was not only unworkable, but unnecessary, according to the telco, which denied the market wasn't working, and vehemently denied that, if it were so, it was at the heart of the trouble.

Telstra said it didn't like either of the alternatives offered to it in the central part of the Bill; to voluntarily structurally separate or be forced to a functional separation.

Functional separation disrupted network and product innovation for years, the telco said, pointing experiences from the UK and New Zealand, and said structural separation implemented in the US had largely been rolled back. Both would divert resources from the NBN, it believed.

Instead, it suggested remodelling its operational support systems to operate in a customer-agnostic fashion, with the wholesale and retail business unit "plugging in" at the same level and functionality, ostensibly giving wholesale customers the ability to compete with its own retail facing units.

The telco was not better pleased with other components of the Bill, such as those that could deny Telstra access to spectrum. It would gain nothing for the NBN while damaging the market, consumers and Telstra employees, it said.

"Given that the NBN delivers the government's preferred industry structure and that wireless is not a regulated service, there is simply no policy rationale for such an exclusion," Telstra said.

Forcing Telstra to divest Foxtel and its hybrid fibre-coaxial cable would also serve no public interest, the telco believed. There was a competitor's network in the case of the HFC cable, and as for Foxtel, media heavies such as News Corporation and Consolidated Media Holdings would likely snap it up to the detriment of Australian consumers.

The changes to the access regime didn't confine the way the Regulator, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, could use its powers enough and enabled it to ditch procedural fairness, Telstra said — creating regulatory uncertainty as opposed to ending it.

The Bill was wrong
Telstra then pointed out what it considered to be factual errors in the Bill. It said its level of integration wasn't unusual, claiming that "virtually every major incumbent telecommunications carrier in the world is vertically integrated". Even its horizontal integration wasn't strange, it said, naming examples such as Deutsche Telekom and AT&T.

Neither was the level of competition insufficient or ineffective, it claimed, talking about the number of its competitors, listing those involved in backhaul. It also implied that separation had been more global flop than global trend, saying that only a handful of OECD countries had implemented functional separation and a number of European regulators had spoken out on it.

The Bill had also said that Telstra's retail market share was on the rise. Au contraire, the telco said, flourishing statistics for 2008/2009 which showed it had lost retail market share.

Last of all, Telstra denied it was the only one to benefit from regulatory arrangements, saying that competitors had benefited from the ACCC's decisions over the years.

At least change it
For the case that the government did decide to continue with its plans, Telstra put forward a number of changes to the Bill to make it more palatable for its board, management and shareholders.

The telco wanted the parts of the Bill dealing with its voluntary structural separation and loss of Foxtel deleted completely.

The telco said the Bill should also be changed to say that functional separation must not:

  • Be unduly burdensome and degrade Telstra's retail or wholesale service quality
  • Impede Telstra's ability to compete fairly
  • Force Telstra to physically separate information systems or networks
  • Stop network and wholesale using common information and network operations systems directly through equivalent interfaces
  • Stop Telstra from creating internal network units to provide in-sourcing of services at arm's length to the retail business unit and network/wholesale business unit
  • Stop Telstra from using common HR, legal, technology and network planning services

Telstra also wanted Minister Conroy's discretion curtailed on certain matters and said that the spectrum section of the Bill had to be deleted entirely. It wanted the legislation to include rules governing the ACCC's conduct and allowing the review of the ACCC's decisions, as well as asking for changes to the parts touching the universal service obligation.

Customer service guarantees had to add a requirement of reasonableness, the telco said, and wholesale providers shouldn't be measured by performance standards or benchmarks because they didn't have control of external systems to interface with.

Telstra also asked that if the bill were to go ahead, that the Senate delay debate on it until after Telstra had finished its discussions with the government over the NBN and the NBN implementation study had been completed.

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Talkback 59 comments

    Learn the truth Vasso <assonic -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374652)

    29 page submission to the Seanate enquiry.

    http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/investor

    I'm not a big fan of Telstra Asmodai -- 09/10/09

    but I support this move.

    Let them compete with the NBN, let them all innovate, cut costs, work out economy and deliver a better solution for the end user.

    Fair enough. Vasso Massonic -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374792)

    The most important bit in the 29 page submission, in my opinion is, ....." and have a significant detrimental impact on our employees."

    All 30,000 of them. The forgotten asset in the equation.

    uh... Anonymous -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374804)

    No offense but thats a bit rich - Telstra is its employees worst enemy anyway.

    Fire away anon... RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374808)

    Don't worry about being offensive towards Vasso.

    This delightful [sic] retired, Telstra shareholder, just referred to me as rat sh*t and an ignoramus in another ZD thread, lol...

    Simply because he has lost so much money on Telstra shares, but mainly becasue of that "never to be" harbourside mansion and Ferrari he was actually expecting to buy with his TLS windfall, lol.

    Unfortunately he can't handle the truth and this is how he reacts, so fire away, the rules have been torn up...

    The rules the rules RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374825)

    I must follow myself every where as my demented mind can no longer keep track of what I have done ....

    My unending spiral into the depths of hatred of all those who are more successful than myself has now become my all consuming passion.

    If I cant have it no one else can and I shall do all in my power to bring them to their knees....

    As I spiral further and further from reality to try and escape my inept life..... The rules are becoming lost in the blue and orange of my most hated antagonist.....

    PLease please RS save me from myself.........

    Successful RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374857)

    Ooh I wish for $100000 of losses like you, successful Telstra puppet. lol...

    Let me remind you - $3.16, lol

    Unsuccessful RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374884)

    Yet again I can but o no more than to try and drag those who are more successful than my own foolish self, down into the depths of despair that is my life......

    Whom shall I belittle and insult now so as to be able to further my empty life

    Forever to be able to look up to myself as the failure that I am.

    Junior RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375040)

    Drag those who are successful down, lol...

    A successful TLS shareholder - there is no such thing o junior wise one!

    Have I not taught you properly? To the dunces corner with you for 3.16 minutes.

    No suprise. Anonymous -- 09/10/09

    Nothing unexpected here. The only suprise to me was how weakly they argued the case for non-seperation.
    Basically begging not to be seperated, but if you're going to do it, please let us talk to the Government first so we can make it as painless as possible.

    Unfortunately their arguement that customers would be worse off, to me seems just false. They should have been treating customers better in the first place then maybe it wouldn't have got this bad.

    As for the Telstra shareholders. Tough luck sorry. Did you read the prospectus? It DID mention that seperation etc may have an adverse affect on share price, but you bought anyway....

    Prospectus RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374856)

    As with all share purchases as you have said the prospectus should be read.

    The only part of this argument should be is "why is the government wanting to do this?

    Are they afraid to compete against Telstra?

    Yes share prices fluctuate and no doubt we have all suffered the fate of telstra shareholders at some stage!!!

    Let us continue with the time honored tradition of bringing down any Australian success no matter how we do it.

    Oh no, my life the spiral the never ending spiral.........

    re prospectus Reality Check -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374864)

    Are you for real? Are you from planet earth? Maybe not, so greetings.

    They want to take Australia's telecommunications back out of the hands of self promoting bunch of profiteering racketeers.

    re re RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320374917)

    And put it in the hands of a bunch of self promoting no hoper politicians who are busy pissing in the pocket of singtel and others.

    Refuel moron RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378772)

    Poor mans RS (the unfortunate RS with the TLS junk bonds).

    Seriously dude, I think you may need to urgently, source enriched uranium to refuel the flux capacitor? Seems the space/time continuum, has been upset!

    Your obvious cerebral void has unfortunately made contact with your knowledge vacuum, creating a "black hole" between your left and right gluteus maximus. This is known as musculus sphincter ductus choledochi.

    Quick dude I want to help you, but if you don't refuel soon a cataclysmic reaction will result, whereby you and your TLS shares will be sucked into and swallowed whole (pun intended) by your own black hole!

    Ahhhhhhhhh!

    re re re Anonymous -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378772)

    dear racist are you afraid of those from singapore?

    Prospectus Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320374864)

    Read the prostpectus and sold all mine at $8.90. Can't believe people held on to them, must of been all that internet bubble hype at the time..

    Separate Telstra for the good of Australia!

    Godd Move THODEY!!!o Anonymous -- 09/10/09

    I also are not a big fan of Telstra, however, I support this decision not to DECIMATE a great Australian company at the behest & advantage of foreign owned Telco's like SINGTEL owned OPTUS!!

    A win for all Australians!!!

    You fail to realise that... Wakie -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320374904)

    1. Telstra has foreign investors
    2. A lot of telco's are 100% Australian owned

    SINGAPORE OWNS OPTUS!!!!!!!! Anonymous -- 10/10/09 (in reply to #320375202)

    FACT : SINGTEL OWNS OPTUS 100%!!!

    ...but Telstra is great Australian company & has a lot of Mums & Dads shareholders and KRUDD/CONJOB should tread carefully!!! Telstra continually invests more than any other Telco!!

    ..and another thing as pointed out by Telstra Team is that these foreign owned Telco's continue sponge off the Australian taxpayer.

    Why?? Because it is easier tp sponge than invest like Telstra!!

    The OPTUS DNA is all about spongeing...they need to get off the gravy train ! Start investing & stop spongeing!!

    Tell us then... RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320376627)

    Since you know so much (or so little, depending on whether you are wanting the truth or not) and since Sydney (who isn't you) won't answer, why don't you tell us about TelstraClear sponging off Telecom NZ?

    Then tell us all about Optus' D3 satellite, Optus' mobile network, HFC, etc?

    Since Optus haven't invested they must have been inherited it all from the government/taxpayer?

    Oh no, wait, that was Telstra's PSTN wasn't it!

    re: Optus Sponging!!! Anonymous -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378247)

    iT IS not AN INHERITANCE WHEN THE pstn HAS BEEN REPAID in full TO THE tAXPAYER!!

    I would like to see OPTUS/SINGTEL repay what they have sponged over the yaers back in FULL!!

    You are the leech RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378782)

    Repaid in full? How so?

    They inherited the PSTN and have made $b's off it and built an empire on the profits thereof.

    Disgraceful leeches.

    re OPTUS/SINGTEL Gravy Train!!! Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320378911)

    Pull your head in SINGTEL/OPTUS stooge!!! You are obviously very ignorant or a complete idiot!!

    Paid in full steve -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320378911)

    RS in 1975 when Telecom and AusPost split the govt valued Telecom's borrowings to the govt. Telecom paid this back in full. When Paul Keeting was in power he revalued Telecom's borrowings (to fill a govt blackhole). Again Telecom repaid in full. The govt then SOLD govt ownership to Telstra as part of T1, T2 and T3.

    Telstra the public company did not inherit or recieve the PSTN for free as indicated by yourself but it was purchased from the govt.

    So what is the issue in making a profit.

    another twist Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320381183)

    heard it all before, but always a little different.

    the debt was highlighted in the budgetary figures in1975, not repaid in 1975.

    it was repaid using funds gained from the float...

    Twisted logic Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320381379)

    "it was repaid using funds gained from the float..."

    How could it? Telstra didn't sell itself. The government owned it and the government (read taxpayer) received the benefit. Any debts Telstra paid came from its own earnings.

    The 'taxpayer owned/built the network' line is as old as it is wrong.

    twisted alright Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320381583)

    telstra built it then?

    @twisted alright Anonymous -- 13/10/09 (in reply to #320381617)

    "Telstra built it then?"

    Yes it did. It was called PMG and Telecom Australia as well as Telstra when it did, but it did built the network from money it received from its customers in exchange for a service, or by borrowing money that was repaid from the same revenue stream. It is just like any other business you care to name.

    oh Anonymous -- 13/10/09 (in reply to #320384567)

    nice try, whether it was called pmg, telecom, telstra or martha, it was still in the end, owned by the government and built with funds that came into the government.

    you can only polish a t%rd so much.

    but if it built itself and was wonderfully self sufficient, where did this massive debt come from, you were telling us all about yesterday, which martha repaid.

    quick revert back again.

    Telstra is not great Anonymous -- 10/10/09 (in reply to #320374904)

    Telstra is definitely not a 'great Australian company'. Please point to me anything it has done that can be considered to be 'great'? Bill Gates giving away his entire multi-billion fortune earned at Microsoft could be considered 'great', but simply enjoying a monopoly and employing (and treating badly) thousands of Australians cannot in any way be considered 'great'.

    Time for Truth. Sydney Lawrence -- 09/10/09

    Now Senator Conroy please explain your Win, Win solution for the NBN to us.

    Time for the truth RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375031)

    You may have noticed that I've stumbled across a new poster, who is pretending to be me, lol...

    Do you condone such things in your quest for Telstra wealth?

    You guys are getting pretty desperate, you can feel it all imploding, eh?

    Time for the truth RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375149)

    Is it me or is it me?

    Why is it that I should be the one pretending or is it that I am me or should that be the other way around

    Why shall though condone anything that is said or done in the name of 15min of fame.

    My life on its endless spiral of nothingness continues to plough me toward the oblivion of the continuous and pointless endeavors of those that continue to debate a topic that is so .....

    Sorry I stumbled and looked in a mirror and realised that I am really me and the spiral of nothingness that I call me life will continue here and forever more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    RS RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375244)

    I'm back again, because my lies haven't worked and RS is still here telling everyone the truth about a few greedy shareholders, damn...

    Even my obvious stupid ploy hasn't scared him off, quite the opposite.

    No good trying to argue that Telstra are fair, they admitted to be misleading and deceptive. No good talking about my shares, I'll look greedy like the others. No good arguing Telstra's obvious monopoly position. No good talking about the premium this and that, when TPG does three times as much for the half the price (and probably where my mentor that truthful, handsome and intelligent RS will be going when his contract with Telstra expires)!

    So since I am so gullible, I'll pretend to be someone who hasn't fallen for all this selfish bullsh!t. Particularly as I have no thoughts of my own and no idea about what is required in relation to Australia's comms.

    I'll be RS, cool..lol.

    Ooh, maybe "thou" (sorry though) should stumble into the dictionary .

    Don't worry. We can tell. Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320375149)

    Don't worry. We know the difference between the real RS and the fake RS. Just as the Fake Stephen Conroy was smarter than the real one, the Fake RS is smarter than the real RS.

    It is..... TIME FOR TRUITH Anonymous -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320375031)

    Sydney, Can we kiss goodbye to our 50% in Foxtel?

    PRIME Minister Kevin Rudd stayed with billionaire media mogul Kerry Stokes at his lavish mansion in Broome last weekend.

    Mr Rudd and his wife Therese Rein spent the night of October 2 at the Channel Seven owner's Cable Beach compound as part of a three-day trip to Western Australia.

    Courtesy:

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26194332-421,00.html

    re. Optus Sydney Lawrence -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378637)

    Me too Vasso.

    I think I've been wrong all along.

    Fraudster is a serious offence Vasso Massonic -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378637)

    under the Telecommunication act.

    So get your act together and stop hiding behind your finger

    You'll soon have some mail.

    Yes it is... RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378936)

    And it works both ways, doesn't it?

    That's what happens when you play dirty, it lowers everyone to your level.

    But it's interesting that I have friends I do not even know, who will willingly support me when you Telstra puppets play your typical, greedy stupid games.

    Thanks guys

    At last Davo -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320378637)

    Well done Vasso, I didn't think I'd ever see you admit your mistake and join the ranks of the real world! I look forward to reading a proper discusion rather than that tired old marketing spin..

    How about this? Anonymous -- 09/10/09

    If Conroy and his mates are intent on destroying this great Australian company maybe they should look elsewhere to invest their capital and innovation. Call their bluff David!

    Good luck Telstra Anonymous -- 09/10/09

    Which employees does Thodey consider to be at risk? Certainly not all of the jobs that Telstra has outsourced to call centres outside of Australia.

    Telstra has ignored the bush, replaced CDMA with reduced next-g coverage, withheld ADSL2 from their customers and generally ripped off Australia.

    I expect labour voters will support Rudd and many of those voting for the nationals are likely to agree with the government. Labour stands to gain votes by standing up to Telstra so there is no incentive for them to go easy on Telstra.

    Who has ignored the bush steve -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375052)

    If Telstra has ignored the bush that what do you say about Optus and the other 150+ telco's that are registered in Australia. Telstra service may not be the best but at least it is there.

    As for CDMA I think you will find it is a shinking market worldwide and a decision had to be made at some time to shut it off. Supporting CDMA just for the bush was not an economical decision. Yes coverage was generally poor to start off with but is has improved since.

    Telstra has ignored the bush RL -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375265)

    It was the government that build the infrastructure to provide services in the bush, steve. Optus and the other 150+ telcos don't have the money to provide services in unprofitable areas such as the bush. Only the Australian Government can offer telecommunication services to the bush, and Telstra is reaping the profits from it since its privatisation. All infrastructure should belong to the government, thus belong in public hands.

    Or maybe steve -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375331)

    RL on reading the submission from Telstra I notice the wholesale price set by ACCC for band 3 and 4 is higher than what the telco can change the customer at retail. Personally I see this as a major disincentive for telcos. No wonder very few telcos are in the bush and most concentrate on the cities where the most profit can be found.

    Outnumbered... Wakie -- 09/10/09

    The fact remains that there is less than 2 million Telstra shareholders and 10 million voters.

    The majority always wins.

    Price of Telstra Offerings Anonymous -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375204)

    AS an Aged Pensioner with Grand children 4 years to 12 years, i need a speed which will bitstream, therefore stuck with a $ 79 dollar plan.

    Many approaches to Telstra, as i do not use their free internet sites, and all i get is the same answer, we got you by the short and curlies, like it or lump it,

    So like all the other people David Thodey is talking about, i am going to bail out to another ISP, despite the fact that Telstra will know who i am, and leave me off the net as long as they can.

    Legally, this is not correct, morally, i suppose they may have had some rights, which they abandoned by not holding meaningful dicussions.

    Cie La Vie

    but...but... but ....but...... Salami Chujillo -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375204)

    Telstra's got 1.44 mil shareholders, we should be the first priority, stuff the other 10 plus millions voters/consumers, who cares about them as long as my company can rip them off who caressss (from a TLS shareholders point of view). Hey greedy TLS shareholders, i just read your mind. lol. Tell you what, why stay on a sinking ship, sell your shares before they sink even lower. You can buy shares in my company, Salami NWAT Pty Ltd and you wont regret.

    and another but... RS -- 09/10/09 (in reply to #320375302)

    http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,26181507-15306,00.html

    Telstra shareholder Wade M**** said: "The current proposed legislation is unfair to all Telstra shareholders and must not be permitted to proceed in its current form. "If the government wishes to proceed, then I AM CALLING FOR MY PURCHASE COST OF MY TELSTRA SHARES (from the government) TO BE RETURNED TO ME WITH ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION and I will transfer my shares back to the government."

    Pretty much sums up the "concern", some TLS shareholders have for Australia's comms and Australians. "My purchase cost of my shares" - not even worried about other shareholders, lol.

    But at least Wade has the guts and honesty to say, he doesn't care about comms or Telstra, it was a "bad investment", so good on him, in one way! He isn't hiding his "financial agenda" behind stupid, desperate comments, pseudo patriotism, continual back flips and irrational blatant lies, like some..

    Jumping Fleas. Sydney Lawrence -- 10/10/09

    Careful Stephen (Conroy) it looks like all the fleas, who for years have freeloaded on Telstra, are looking to transfer and freeload on your NBN.

    Don't expect to make any profit Stephen with the ACCC setting prices below your operational cost. Ask Telstra they'll tell how it works.

    In NZ too... RS -- 10/10/09 (in reply to #320376089)

    Also ask Telecom NZ, where that freeloading flea Telstra (TelstraClear) have been doing the same.

    But even though we know it is happening there too, we'll pretend it doesn't.

    Kiwi Telstra Davo -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320376204)

    Sydney please respond to RS comment on Telstra Clears freeloading on Telecom NZ.

    I am waiting!

    Sponging RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378119)

    What about all the other "Telco's" That exist here in Australia,

    TPG, Netspace, Iprimus and the list goes on and on, that refuse to invest in external plant.

    They find it easier to sponge off the incumbent Telstra for their carrying capacity.

    As for singtel they use Telstra mobile towers to install their aerials so they don,t have to build new ones and pay for property aquisitions, ,power etc. They then use Telstra fibre for backhaul, because it is cheaper than installing their own. Their hfc only covers a very small part of three major capital cities!!!!

    It is about time all these other companies and their supporters stopped bleating and whining and make them spend some money and actually build some of their own network, then they wouldn't have to complain.

    How many of these other companies can be regarded as full telcos when the most they do is resell mobile access, are isp's only.

    How many of them actually supply public phones? Non as they would have to spend some money on maintainence and infrastructure.

    Hey all you great nbn supporters is the nbn going to provide public phones?

    Poor mans RS (the cheap imitation) RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378511)

    THAT'S THE LAW - re ACCESS!

    Like the law in NZ where TelstraClear refuses to invest and accesses Telecoms network.

    For the record TelstraClear are doing nothing wrong. Neither is TPG or the rest, THAT'S THE LAW.

    You see oh uneducated one, the laws for access were made to offset the undeniable monopoly Telstra had and still have.

    Just because you bought shares and are crying because of their underperformance, doesn't change history, although you want it to.

    Telstra inherited a monopoly so access laws were introduced. Is it not that hard to comrehend?

    If you actually have intelligence and no financial reason not to understand!!!

    Just another one sided rant RS -- 11/10/09 (in reply to #320378599)

    Am I as good as I think that I answer myself oh cheap imitation.

    So telstra clear is doing nothing wrong what is the problem? I know it is telstra!!!!!!

    Once again I have proved that I am an inconsolable moron with nothing better to with my time than pose questions so I can answer them myself so as to feed my all consuming ego.

    I have yet again proven that I am incapable of carrying on an argument without mentioning shares or money.

    I wonder how long it will take me to answer this post as I sit here unable to leave or remove myself from the love of my life zdnet!!!!!

    If I actually had the intelligence to understand.

    Re Sponging Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320378511)

    "TPG, Netspace, Iprimus and the list goes on and on, that refuse to invest in external plant."

    So all telcos should use their own equipment rather than a common integrated service such as Telstra's inherited cables & plant or the proposed NBN.

    I can see it now...150 towers in every suburb & a similar number of trenches dug in every street, not to mention all those extra exchange buildings dotting the landscape lol.

    re Internode/TPG/Netspace etc etc Anonymous -- 12/10/09 (in reply to #320380878)

    Mate these guys aren't full Teco's.

    They would like to think they are.

    Basically they are ISP's...not a full Telco!!

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