Telstra tells Coonan: Get your facts straight

By Jo Best, ZDNet Australia

18 September 2007 04:35 PM

Tags: telstra, letter, coonan, broadband, advertisement, adsl2+, letters

Telstra is up in arms over letters it says Communications Minister Helen Coonan has sent to homes located in broadband-enabled areas, telling them they have no high-speed connection available.

The letters, sent to locations across rural Australia, tell recipients: "To date, your street address has not received a commercial upgrade to enable access to ADSL or wireless broadband." According to Telstra, some homes who received the letters are already able to access ADSL or ADSL2+ broadband.

The letter continues: "I am pleased to inform you that the recently announced Australia Connected programme has targeted "under served" premises and is likely to bring broadband to your address."

According to a Telstra spokesperson, one of the letters -- which promote the forthcoming bush WiMax network -- was sent to a Telstra exchange. Other broadband-enabled homes which received the letter include premises in McLaren Vale, Toowoomba and Ballarat.

Although only 50 of the 500,000 letters are known to have hit broadband-enabled homes, Telstra is planning its own letter-drop and advertising campaign to counter the Minister's message.

Like Coonan, Telstra has also been taken to task this week over its promotional strategy. Communications watchdog the ACCC announced yesterday it has started court proceedings over claims made by Telstra about its Next G network. The regulator alleged Next G taglines including "Everywhere you need it" misled customers.

The telco's spokesperson said: "The hypocrisy of legal action against one Telstra advertisement on one hand and the lack of action on the government's taxpayer funded advertising blunder is staggering."

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Talkback 41 comments

Add your opinion

What hope Australia. Anonymous -- 18/09/07

What an incompetent idiot this woman must be. For a Minister of the Crown to make a mistake like this shows she is either a fool or a dumb fake. Please Senator Conroy take over from this impostor.

Interesting viewpoint. Anonymous -- 18/09/07 (in reply to #320086359)

I would have thought that such a vitriolic attack could have waited until you had all the facts. There are a number of ways an error like this could have happened, especially when using a third-party to process mailouts. Anyway is a 0.%1error rate that bad, or is it just that you work for Telstra?

You think Conroy will be any better? Anonymous -- 18/09/07 (in reply to #320086359)

Conroy doesn't even understand the difference between WiFi and WiMax! I believe the intent of the letter was to inform an overwhelming majority of the recipients that soon they will have access to affordable broadband for the first time. So what if 50 or so ended up in the wrong location? Opel will be good for competition in this country and WiMax has huge potential.

Viewpoint on a Viewpoint Anonymous -- 19/09/07 (in reply to #320086371)

50... This is the number of people that have actually bothered to read it, then realised the stupidity of Coonan's claim and then sent a copy to Telstra.

Lets make some basic and very conservative assumptions:
- 50% of people who noticed the error actually advised Telstra
- Each of these 50 people lived in different streets
and
- 2 neighbors on each side and across the road could also have ADSL,

We would have 50 * 10 * 2 people as a minimum, this would make the error, not 0.1% but a minimum of 2%

So what is different between Coonan's 98% accuracy and the ACCC taking Telstra to court for allegedly misleading people with the difference between 98.8% and the word "everywhere".

Once again politics, rhetoric and a very loud minority want everyone to believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows.

American spelling Anonymous -- 19/09/07 (in reply to #320086374)

In Australia its Neighbours in America its Neighbors...

Makes you wonder, eh?

Once again you can't stick to the subject Your Neighbor -- 19/09/07 (in reply to #320086391)

As usual anything you to try and turn the subject away from the real story.

I use Firefox which has an Americanised spell checker in it so that accounts for the error.

For your information I am an ex-Telstra employee working for one of the companies you are siding with. I am an engineer and helped design some of the infrastructure so I think I know how it (and the industry) works.

The only reason I left was that my current employer offered me a 55% increase in salary package to switch sides. Now that I have seen both sides I would hand it all back today if I was given the chance to return.

Having seen both sides of the fence and knowing a lot about what is in the ground and soon to be over the airwaves I know that at present there is almost no engineering around the new government solution, the mapping hasnâ��t even been done accurately so I am not sure how any of this could be claimed to be truly representative of the final coverage.

Take note â�¦ 2009 rollout will soon become 2011.

Bad workman... Anonymous -- 19/09/07 (in reply to #320086396)

It accounts for you clicking on a correctly spelled word and changing it? I guess they always said spell checkers would dum people down.

Maybe as you know so much, you should be a whistle blower? Surely Telstra would welcome you back with open arms with all your skills?

you should be a whistle blower? Anonymous -- 20/09/07 (in reply to #320086397)

DON'T DO IT

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A WHISTLE BLOWER THAT ENDS UP HAPPY, YOU WILL BE OUTED AS UNTRUSTWORTHY.

LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO NURSES IN SOME NSW HOSPITALS, THEY ENDED UP LOSING THEIR JOBS AND HAVING TO GO TO COURT TO GET THEM BACK.

Learn to do maths Anonymous -- 20/09/07 (in reply to #320086374)

****uming your unproved statistics is correct, for a start 50 out of 500,000 is only 0.01 %.

Following your computations results in a mailout error of only 0.2%

This is 99.8 % accuracy which exceeds 98.8%.

Anyway, everywhere means everywhere eg 100%. Try selling a product that claims to cure every cold and see how long the advert lasts.

0.001% or 99.99999% which is better? Carlos -- 20/09/07 (in reply to #320086450)

I think the point is anything other then 100.0000000% is unacceptable by the government's and ACCC's standards.

Toshiba laptop claims to "WEIGH NOTHING DOES EVERYTHING". On Billboards and their web site. Will the ACCC ever take them to court over a claim that makes a claim that is to put simply IMPOSSIBLE?

How about ISP's that were advertising 24Mbps ADSL2+ and is only available to <5% of subscribers in ADSL2+ enabled areas although the advertising was also in non-ADSL2+ areas. The ACCC forced them to stop advertising in this fashion and then only by adding the words up to. This was not after the fact like they have done with Telstra, did they decide to take any one of these ISPâ��s to court? Simple answer NO.

Give me 5 minutes and I could find another dozen or so examples of claims that are much more blatant and where the ACCC has done nothing or has simply sent a friendly notice to the company.

I would like to know how many times the ACCC has sent warnings to companies after the company has withdrawn the advertising campaign themselves and how many of these resulted in court action. I would be surprised if there is more then a few of the former and any at all of the later.

Carlos -- 20/09/07 - you twit! Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/09/07 (in reply to #320086483)

We are talking about a monopoly carrier here. They hold ownership of the hardware. Your point is not only invalid, it shows you are blinkered. The ACCC is attempting to make things better for the whole of Australia & Telstra, now Trujillo & before Switkowsky have basically done everything they can do to destroy the company.

If you were to check Trujillo's credentials you will find that he has already done this to 2 telecommunications companies in the US & purposely. Tell me why the ACCC shouldn't believe that he's doing the same thing when that is the reason for employing him in the first place?

Grow up & realise that the ACCC are basically attempting to haul in a company that has forgotten its promise to supply a service to every Australian & they are not. They fiddle the systems to the point of putting up temporary towers when a Gov't minister travels so that service appears to be something more than it really is. I know this because it happened near my home town in far West NSW. The uproar ended up with Telstra having to make the tower permanent to save face.

The fact is, Telstra is scum & you shouldn't be supporting a company that is not providing reasonable service to the people who own the company.

Takes one to know one - Rex Alfie Lee Carlos -- 21/09/07 (in reply to #320086521)

Apples and Oranges...

I was using real life domestic examples to discuss the fact the ACCC is applying the Trade Practices Act against one company in a biased fashion while allowing other simular or worse cases to be ignored.

At no stage did I raise overseas examples which could not be replicated in Australia due to population density and carrier penetration.

I also did not at any stage make any reference to service or brand performance, I focused on one subject and one subject only. In case you still havenâ��t gotten it through your extremely thick skull it was all about applying one uniform standard when setting rules regardless of industry, political relationships or brand.

In relation to submitting a personal attack on someone you donâ��t know I would be more then happy for you and me to compare notes in relation to who is the bigger twit, which is about the only time I think I would ever lose to you.

its our money on government advertising Anonymous -- 19/09/07

The real story is she sent 1/2 a million mailouts using our money for political advertising.

Real story Anonymous -- 20/09/07

The real story is that even if;
you live within range of an ADSL enabled exchange,
have no Pair Gain on your line,
there is a spare port in the exchange,
there is no regulation that forces Telstra to maintain the line to a standard capable of carring ADSL. Even the TIO can not help.

Telstra declares your line a 'dirty ticket' and you can not get (or keep) broadband.

Ah Telstra! Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/09/07

Wobbly one day,
Crumbling the next!

A farcical company of poisonous rattlesnakes spitting in the eye of the user,
Oh scumbucket of magnificent proportion that thou art,
How lasciviously thou rakes the coffers in,
Tongue licking lips in glee,
Preys upon the unknowing children,
Testimonials abound from the A triple-C,
The frolicking fantasy of broadband technology,
Telstra, thou art True-ee-o no more,
For thou doth screw with the people.
Ar$e-holes!

That we would see ourselves as others see us. Sydney Lawrence -- 23/09/07 (in reply to #320086520)

Rex Alfie Lee... your attitude interests me.

Would you explain the motive for your intense hatred for the great and glorious Australian company, Telstra. I would think that you have a financial interest in a company that opposes Telstra and perhaps you are in a losing situation which you find detestable and intolerable.

Persons who are driven to such unreasonable, self destroying and, to the intelligent observer, over the top fantasies of self delusion and unfounded hatred have a serious problem.

I certainly wish you well but you must understand that your attempts to weaken and possibly destroy Telstra (this would be in your moments of extreme mental delusion) are entirely figments of your imagination and can never be obtained in reality.

Hate Telstra Simon Goslett -- 24/09/07 (in reply to #320086601)

The reason many of us hate Telstra is past experience. They treat their customers with contempt, provide sub standard service and delay, delay delay! Most of us have been ripped off either by mobile phone billing - if the bill is ever correct, or by Bigpond gouging. I've helped quite a few Seniors and non-technical families understand the billing and gouging practices. Telstra never acts in the best interest of it's customers, otherwise services such as BigPond would have been rate limited years ago. The current gouge scam is to force normal mobile users onto 3G with the intent of growing data revenues substantially. There will be a spate of outcrys over the next twelve months as data costs spiral mobile phone bills. The old, the very young and the IT illiterate are the targets, as they always are.
Unlike others on this page, I do not work for Telstra or any other telecoms business. My only vested interest is wanting a fair and reliable telecoms industry service Australia's needs rather than shareholder needs.

Another unjust attitude towards Telstra Anonymous -- 24/09/07 (in reply to #320086635)

Another constant and quasi-professional Telstra bagger. Your last line is the most interesting ... you complain when they are government owned and now they are private you argue shareholders shouldn't be the prime focus. What a joke. Find any private company that seeks to minimise returns to shareholders and I will eat my words.

Allow Telstra and any other telco to build any infrastructure they want and sell it at any price they want and pretty soon market forces will determine the winners. In regional areas the government can provide a subsidy for each active service, to simply hand out money to a company to build a network that will generate plenty of shareholder returns and an uneven return to the country is not the right way to go.

Telstra Simon Goslett -- 25/09/07 (in reply to #320086664)

You're right about being a constant Telstra bagger and I'll keep it up until things change for the better.
For your information, I was a Telecom/Telstra supporter until the organisation was privitised. I was vocal then about the selloff and like most Telecoms specialists at the time, our opinions were ignored. Back then Telstra was world leading in telecommunications infrastructure and TRL led the world in advanced R&D.
To compound my sins, I am also a socialist and believe that critical infrastructure is a national assett and should never be handed over to private ownership. I think the results of the privatisation stupidity speaks for itself. Australia has painted itself into a corner created by greed and short sightedness and Telstra does not help the situation by gouging its customers.
Finally, current corporate best practice is to maximise shareholder and customer value alike, as this is viewed as the path to sustainable growth. Telstra business practice is old school 80's mentality of short term bonus achievement. If you think you have a valid view, you should have the courage to put your name to your post.

"fantasies of self delusion" Anonymous -- 24/09/07 (in reply to #320086601)

Come on Sydney.... You are deluding yourself if you belive Australians view Telstra as a"glorious Australian company"

They are a telco company they don't invoke these romantics images that perhaps Qantas might... (not so sure about that though these days either)

Not such a Rural Problem... Ay Toowoomba? Anonymous -- 21/09/07

Well the last few comments appear anonymously could well be from Telstra employee's. I live in good ol' Toowoomba City here in QLD and I can't get Telstra or anyone else to give me ADSL connection at my residence. However, when I was living on the other side of town, mmm, about 3 Klm's away no prob's. I live only 400mtr's from the nearest exchange and about 500mtr's from the University (as the crow flies). So does Telstra get my vote on broadband, not until they give me access, but hey I do have a Telstra mobile and home phone connection. Regards...

Ah Rex Alfie Lee! Jonathan -- 23/09/07

You may have some talent in writing poems but what value are you actually providing to entire discussion? Just because you have a carrot up you %um you donâ��t need to get on a soap box a show it to the world. You have left the company well over a decade ago, when it was still called Telecom, and you have some personal gripes but donâ��t try and pretend your technical knowledge makes up for your lack of commercial knowledge.

Why don't you publish the fact that you have financial interests in wanting Telstra growth and innovation to be constrained; companies such as Telstra who are trying to improve services and make network based applications better will mean less work for you. I might post some of your CV and contact details next time around.

You will never read this on these anti-Telstra sites Anonymous -- 27/09/07

Telstra Wins at the First Global Telecoms Business Innovation Awards

The first ever Global Telecoms Business Innovation Awards were presented in London on the evening of September 17 2007.

Telstra won the IT innovation award, specifically recognizing Telstra's IT transformation projects, mostly undertaken in Australia.

You armchair experts might hate Telstra but the real experts seem to think the other way!!!

Bunch of bum feelers Anonymous -- 03/10/07 (in reply to #320086823)

You can buy an emmy if you don't get one. They are all a bunch of bum feelers.

Are you jealous? Anonymous -- 03/10/07 (in reply to #320087134)

They were not feeling your bum?

How about best Australian MPLS network by Gartner?

Frost & Sullivan IST Award

Telecom Awards 2007 Company of the year, CEO of the year, Best ISP, Mobile carrier of the year?

Telecom Asia awards Best transformation Telco.

Global Telecoms Business Innovation Award.

All this in 2007, must have cost a pretty penny? or is it simply the experts really know more then you **** wipes.

Monopoly wins awards! Anonymous -- 05/10/07 (in reply to #320087137)

Try:
"General pins medals on himself."
or
"Favourite wins one horse race."

You know ****-licking is an American sport unbecoming of Australia.

D---Head posts comment on ZDNet Anonymous -- 05/10/07 (in reply to #320087297)

You have no idea d-wad.

To win award on a global scale by global experts who know more about communications and business then you or I would ever know is not a-licking. If you know anything about the industry the awards listed are all by independent organisations that are held in high regard by carriers across the globe.

I am proud when my daughter beats her class mates and wins an award at school and I am also proud when a great Australian company is recognised by its peers.

What I am not proud of is how many Australian's who claim to love the country turn their back on one of their own.

I am also not proud of the fact your only comeback to this will be "oh yeah but look at the dumb yanks that are running it". We all know Sol and his mates are here to do one thing, transform the company into a world class company and then leave and they don't care about making mates with governments or the likes of you.

touched a raw nerve eh! Anonymous -- 10/10/07 (in reply to #320087310)

By world standards, Australia's telecoms are low class and they should be better.

But there is too much back rubbing down under for it to ever improve.

If only I never travelled overseas, I would not know any better.

Have a nerve & a spine Anonymous -- 10/10/07 (in reply to #320087575)

Australia's global ranking has improved in almost all reports since deregulation. I look forward to the future of this company and this country.

PS Telstra just won another global award for their engineering standards for the Next G network. For those of you who say this was bought by Telstra you should know who gave the award. It was The IEC (International Engineering Consortium) who is the most respected engineering group in the world.

Letâ��s see what you say now!

Dear strawman Anonymous -- 11/10/07 (in reply to #320087585)

I say stop brushing your coat and start listening to your customers. What could be more obvious than that.

If Telstra were building cars they would build one that few can afford to buy and run.

A good start to address this would be to outsource Telstra's executives to India and keep it's engineers.

Listen to your customer and you wouldn't throw a tizzy when people disagree with you.

Right back at you Dorithy Anonymous -- 11/10/07 (in reply to #320087640)

How many times do we have to hear about the high pay of the executives, my bank's CEO gets paid more then Telstra's CEO.

The simple fact is they are improving, based on world standards Telstra was much lower in rankings years ago and is improving.

What will you be saying in a few more years when Australia is leading the world in more then just mobiles.

Just remember no matter where you are there is no place like home.

We do not want smoke and mirrors. Anonymous -- 12/10/07 (in reply to #320087643)

This person exemplifies everything that is wrong with Telstra at the moment.
1) This person cannot fix anything.
2) This person does not listen.
3) This person indulges in self-serving propaganda.
4) This person becomes obnoxious, rude and offensive when he does not get his own way.
5) This person has no concept of value for money.
6) This person has a lot of spare time on his hands.
7) This person is probably a middleclass city slicker who is oblivious to current country issues.
8) This person cares for nothing less other than personally benefiting in some pecuniary way from Telstra.

And worst of all,
9) This person does not want to believe or is incapable of understanding that people are sick of having to put up with his kind of behaviour.

The Australian community wants cheaper telecommunication services. If you cannot fix it, or cannot hear it, or cannot focus on it, or cannot discuss it, or cannot deliver it, or cannot be bothered about it, or cannot be fair about it, or cannot represent it, or cannot understand it, then kindly go away.

Iâ��m sick of arguing with this selfish person.

Stick to the topic News reader who wants to read news -- 12/10/07 (in reply to #320087896)

Reading these comments by both of you makes me wonder who you work for, it is obvious one is a Telstra employee or massive fan but the second could work for any one of several dozen companies who will only ever succeed if Telstra fails. Please stop your personal attacks and focus on the subject, the government and opposition have a plan and that plan is to win an election being held in a few weeks, they will say and do anything to do this. They are targeting the popular subjects such as roads, taxes, immigration, indigenous affairs and of course Telstra under the disguise of caring about the country's communications needs. Face reality, in the new year we will have a government that will have 3 years to run, will drop many promises and they will reconcile with Telstra until the end of 2010 when the next election comes around. I voted for Labor in the 70's & 80's, voted Liberal since then and will vote liberal again this time around, not because they hate Telstra, I don't, not because of the Opel decision , I disagree with that, but because I see the bigger picture and this county will have a much better future under the Liberal plans in place. And you forgot number 10 - you also have too much time on your hands and if anything the person who started this argument was you and I am glad you gave up when you realised you had nothing reasonable to say.

Fraudband Tyler Gale -- 27/09/07

I live in an ADSL enabled area in range of an exchange that has ports open, but the phone line on our street is pair gain as the telstra technician has told me, so I am unable to get broadband. I live in Brisbane, so if I can't get broadband where I am, I feel sorry for the other people who live in the country and how useless their attempts at getting broadband are.

I have attempted to get ADSL for over 2 years now, but each time Telstra refuses to transpose my line, even though the people on the next block have ADSL (and I know they do because my parents live in that block and have it).

I can understand how those who have spoken unkindly feel because it is simply frustrating trying to get broadband if you are not in the right settings. The problem I have is that the only reason why I can't get broadband is because Telstra decided to cut costs with my phone and because of that I am left out with nothing. Furthermore, the money they spent laying down these cheap lines were from my own tax money!

So while I don't hate Telstra, I do believe they need someone to show them how to look after their customers. I think we need another large telecommunications company that can say, "We'll give you broadband", like many other well developed countries have. I'm just frustrated because I want someone to do something to get broadband going!

Fraudband? Anthony -- 27/09/07 (in reply to #320086830)

There is a misconception among many people that the pair gain system is a deliberate ploy by Telstra to hurt people. You need to remember that the copper in the ground was probably laid over 20 years ago and the exchange location chosen over 40 years ago, in those days data was an afterthought and even then 9.6Kbps was great. It is a different environment to the days of the postmaster general and telecom and now new services deliberately include upgrade paths. At the end of the day adsl needs an old technology to carry it and it was not a deliberate act decades ago to run pair gain cable to your premises to stop you of getting a technology that wouldn't be invented for another decade. As to transposing the service I am an independent dealer and have been through this several times, the biggest problem is that it costs a technician visit to the exchange and the pit in the street, there is a direct cost to Telstra of $200 - $500 for labour & equipment and this cost is not billed to you while at the same time you are then in a position to choose any adsl provider you want after the work is completed. This is a reality for all private companies and don't forget that the entire infrastructure costs were costed all the way back to federation, indexed for inflation and the shareholders bought the company from the taxpayers so please don't say your taxes paid for it. BTW there are many other companies that can go out and invest in infrastructure if they wanted to but the reality is they are private companies with shareholders and won't do anything to help because you are not seen as a profitable exercise.

If Telstra is so bad Anonymous -- 01/10/07

Winner - Best Broadband Supplier, 2007 Australian Telecoms Awards

Winner - Best Wireless Broadband, 2007 Australian Personal Computer Internet Technology Awards

Winner - Internet Technology of the Year, 2007 Australian Personal Computer Internet Technology Awards

House Built in 1996 Tyler Gale -- 03/10/07

I stated before that my area was in pair gains, well, the entire area was made in 1996, at a time where people had cable (albeit very expensive), and internet was going much faster then 9.6kbps.

TELSTRA Anonymous -- 11/10/07

Well who sold it in the first place,i know for a fact optic fibre was being rolled out nicely before the yankee mates of jh via gwb took over.

Oh what a mess our communication system has become its a dog eat dog situation in all areas.

Telstra needs to be taken over by the fed gov and let the mobile networks have airwaves whereby landline networks can progress.ISP providers whom want to cash in must contribute to the cost or if not too must be eliminated from the updated service "simple" I dont mind paying for adsl with telsra if required as long as I can get it.
Sounds fair to me.

2 pair user in west oz

Government run Telstra? Anonymous -- 11/10/07 (in reply to #320087605)

And then we will be 158th best broadband in the world, dollar will be at 56c again, unemployment would be 12% and for work I will probably move to a mine in WA and have to live next to you.

reply by 2 pair gains Anonymous -- 12/10/07

Well I did not say a Liberal Govt did I!!! as for your 12% is unrelated matter but if you are happy to work for budget wages on no choice agreements go ahead.As for working in the mines oh dear how uninformed you are go try your luck and see how much it will cost you to relocate.
As for Telstra under new management with a controlled salary platform(not 8 mill for 1 bloke) we might get somewhere.Costs again you spoke without thinking existing lines would remain as only the new connections would be deprived by private ISPs until they were paid for.Telstra could be given a mandate to comply with existing fees,so whats your beef.

Forest from the trees Anonymous -- 13/10/07 (in reply to #320087709)

The simple fact is there are many aspects to the country being competitive on the world stage and access to technology is a major factor, being non-competitive will lower the dollar value and increase unemployment. Fibre is a very broad term and many companies roll out fibre every day, the argument here is FTTN or simular, not fibre links for business use or long haul carriage.
As with many other people you have raised the Ã¢??CEO is paid too muchÃ¢?? issue, the simple fact is that based on the top 25 companies in Aust his salary is below average.
As to relocation costs, have you ever considered this person may be single, currently renting and have minimal furniture etc? Before you make judgements you may want to think twice about what is real and what is perception.
How is forcing Telstra to comply with fees set by the government / ACCC be considered a mandate? Look in your own backyard before commenting on someone else's garden.