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Telstra submits non-compliant NBN bid

update Telstra this morning submitted what appeared to be a non-compliant mini-bid to build the National Broadband Network, in what appeared to be a 'middle-ground' approach after receiving no certainty on whether a successful bid would force it to separate its operations.

Donald McGauchie

Telstra chairman Donald McGauchie
(Credit: Telstra)

The full Telstra bid can be downloaded here (PDF). Telstra had been threatening not to bid because of the looming spectre of structural separation of the network's operator, where the network arm would be operated as a separate business to that of the retail and wholesale arms.

The government had been unable to provide clarity on whether the telco would be required to separate if it won. Telstra had held a last minute board meeting today to decide. A few minutes after 12 noon, the company published its bid documents, consisting of a mere 13 pages, compared to rival Terria's approximately 1,000.

"Unfortunately these issues [such as separation] have not yet been able to be addressed in a manner that would enable Telstra to submit its fully detailed bid under the RFP today," Telstra said.

Telstra was also concerned about other issues such as the use of its information and the contract terms issued by the Commonwealth.

The telco's bid documents included what appeared to be non-compliant components, such as building a network which would not reach 98 per cent of the population. Telstra said its current bid would reach 90 per cent.

"Telstra has spent very considerable time and effort attempting to find a way to reach coverage of 98 per cent of the population that is the target in the RFP. However, three factors have made that unreachable at this time," the bid said.

They were that the cost rose exponentially as the population coverage reached 98 percent and that current economic conditions had increased build costs and the cost of capital. The telco also mentioned the possibility of slower customer take-up rates in a sluggish economy.

However, the coverage could turn out to be even less, according to the bid, perhaps sinking as low as 80 per cent.

"The actual population coverage will depend on a range of factors relating to Commonwealth funding, forecast build costs at the time contractual commitments are made, take-up levels and the suite of regulatory settings," the bid said.

Telstra would commit $5 billion of its own cash to building the network, according to the document, with which it said it could even roll out to five of the capital cities without the government's $4.7 billion, in the case that the government required the money for something else in the current economic environment. However, to reach 80 to 90 per cent population coverage, it would need the government's money, preferably as a loan at favourable interest rates, Telstra said.

The details
In 65 to 75 per cent of the footprint, downlink speeds would be 25Mbps to 50Mbps, according to the company, with speeds of 12Mbps to 20Mbps for the rest of the footprint.

Entry-level access to the network would be at 1Mbps/256Kbps for retail users, the company said, with a 200MB download quota costing $29.95 with an "NBN telephone service" and $39.95 without one. Business users would have access to 1GB at speeds of 1Mbps/1Mbps for $65 with a phone service and $75 without one.

Telstra would try and reach as many people as quickly as possible with the roll-out, according to the company's bid, which would steer it towards starting in metropolitan areas.

"Because Australia is highly urbanised, the majority of those currently without fast broadband are located in the major cities, where homes and businesses located more than 1.5 km from their local telephone exchange cannot currently get fast fixed broadband using Telstra's existing telephony network," the documents said, saying that the roll-out priority shouldn't be based on geography for its own sake. The build could be "well underway next year" according to the bid.

The company confirmed that Alcatel-Lucent was its chosen vendor partner, to supply the equipment and know-how for the roll-out of the network.

Despite the shortness of the bid, Telstra reiterated its beliefs that it was the prime bidder, saying it had the right experience, the workforce and the wherewithal to finance the investment, especially since it claimed the work would only be an upgrade of the company's own network.

"Telstra believes the Government can consider its proposal under the existing terms of the RFP and should agreement be reached on outstanding concerns a possibility exists for more detailed dialogue."

The company did not seek any protection against competitive networks, according to the documents.

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Talkback 62 comments

    They don't need government help Brett -- 26/11/08

    This bid reads as though they are simply responding to shut up those who said they would not bid and those who said they would paper to the government's whim.

    Let someone else win the $4.7B and let Telstra build this themselves, I would welcome two competing networks. If one offers 12Mbps to 98% and the other 25Mbps to 90% I would pick the 25Mbps option even if it was a few dollars more.

    Heh Anonymous -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117112)

    Even with only 500MB of included downloads? You'd run out after less than 3 minutes! :p~

    Check the strategy M0TT -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117113)

    In case you hadnt noticed, Telstra is moving away from capped plans to unlimited plans with bandwidth limiting.

    My guess is that the bandwidth will be reduced to the basic standard entry offering for the NBN(read the bid document) of 1MB/s.

    that's much better... Anonymous -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117128)

    So, for the first 2 minutes of the month, you get the full 25Mb/s then you hit the 200MB download limit and are stuck on the lowest speed for the next 30 days, 23 hours and 58 minutes. Heh, yeah, I'll pay extra for that!

    lol Paul -- 01/12/08 (in reply to #320117128)

    I recon you might be a bit unrealistic there.

    Currently capped plans cap down to a min of 64kbps to make it pointless to try and leech more on your "not included" data.

    If they put the base speed to 1mbps, guaranteed 90% of the people who previously would have put up their plans would happily continue to broswe and consume on 1mbps.

    so i think its highly unlikely, I think the most they will give you after your cap would be 256k and I recon that might be pushing it

    Speed, Data and Excess Fees RL -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117112)

    If the network that offered 12Mbps also offered 5GB of data a month, while the 25Mbps network offered 500MB a month, then I would definitely pick the 12Mbps network!

    Speed is not the only issue here, mate!

    Please sir, may I have some more... Terry -- 26/11/08

    Off page 3 .. "Firstly, the cost to build increases exponentially towards the 98% level, thus requiring a much larger Commonwealth contribution if the NBN is to reach that far".

    Interesting quote, considering throughout the entire NBN process one of Telstra's key arguments have been that they are the only ones with the skills and support to build the NBN and that any other bidder would ultimately requirement a government bailout. They aren't asking for a bailout, they're cutting straight to the point and asking for extra funding to meet the required 98% from day 1.

    @please sir Anonymous -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117118)

    yes a trick learnt from opel, no doubt.

    @@please sir Terry -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117188)

    "yes a trick learnt from opel, no doubt."

    OPEL never asked for any extra funding, the only time money was requested from the government was after the deal was canceled and that was the cover the already spent funds on a previously agreed upon contract.

    If you sign a contract to do a job for someone, spend your own money implementing, then they drop the contract, then you have a right to reimburse those costs which is exactly what OPEL was asking for.

    So I'm not really sure where you're coming from for this one, besides just creating more FUD that is.

    der! Anonymous -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117215)

    $600m offered before the winning bid + an extra $300m which magically appeared = what tezza?

    you are obviously too biased to see opel were a joke and their sister terria a joke too.

    i've been through it all with you before and left links for you to educate yourself so that wouldn't look so foolishly naive in the future. but alas you are just too stubborn or ***king stupid to realize it.

    if you are our university student future we are obviously ***ked engineer boy!

    This is a bid? Anonymous -- 26/11/08

    It would seem Telstra don't want to build the network after all. Do thery really expect to win a 4.7 billion dollar contract with a 13 page submission that says they can't build what is being asked for?

    Telstra really are crazy!

    Go or woe. Sydney Lawrence -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117120)

    Anonymous please get the facts straight. Telstra is asking for a 4.7 billion LOAN (fully repayable) from the Government. Telstra can deliver the others can deliver too. DISASTER.

    1Mbps???? RL -- 26/11/08

    I don't believe this! The government promised a "minimum" of 12Mbps to 98% of the population. Yet Telstra is offering $29.95 per month for a lousy 1Mbps connection and a lousy 200MB per month.

    Is it me, or do I get the feeling that if Telstra wins, we'll be paying more for the same services that we're getting right now?

    Well I guess I shouldn't really be complaining. Besides it'll only be "5 YEARS" before I can even experience this high-speed internet revolution! Sigh!

    Well Done Telstra. Tailgator -- 26/11/08

    Just keep going. The longer you do, the better the reasons for separation become.
    And 'I did it my way' will become a fitting epitaph for McGauchie and Trujillo et al.

    For shame Telstra Anonymous -- 26/11/08

    LOL rubbish download quota's from Telstra
    Nothing has changed 200mb? What a joke! Whats with Telstra and crappy download quotas?.

    Telstra your a freaking joke I don't know how anyone would support such a greedy crummy company/

    Gee - eve this didn't shut up the Telstra bashers M0TT -- 26/11/08

    Telstra did not submit a complaint bid - which is what I said they would do weeks ago.

    The Government now will have to decide if they exclude Telstra from the remaining prcess.

    My guess is they will disqualify them.

    Telstra will then go off and build its own network (because they havwe the funds to do so) and not be required to share it with anyone.

    They will be able to buy from the new non-Telstra NBN to provide services where they do not reach.

    sensational outcome for Australia - NOT.

    @ Gee - eve this didn't shut up the Telstra bashers Anonymous -- 28/11/08 (in reply to #320117127)

    Telstra will not build a new network on top of the NBN, it's uneconomical and NOT in the best interests of their share holders. Which is (by law) what they have to keep in mind every time they make a decision.

    Bring back OPEL Furious Rural User -- 26/11/08

    So glad the govt canned OPEL.....

    That 8% being ignored by Telstra's bid are those that OPEL was designed to cover.

    Thanks for f***g rural users Telstra and Comrade Rudd.

    moron Anonymous -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117134)

    sorry to call you a moron, but the only people who service that 8% at the moment besides satellite is telstra Next G, so stop your whinging? or whinge at one of the companies that actually does nothing instead of just bitching about the larger one.

    Who is the moron? Furious Rural User -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117141)

    Who was is that didn't submit a proper bid for OPEL, then threatened legal action against OPEL, and scared the new govt into canning it?

    Yes, your beloved Telstra.

    Why - because they wanted to protect their backhaul rural monopoly.

    for ***k sake, enough. Anonymous -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117143)

    opel was a joke like terria. please awaken from your stupor, stupid.

    optus, iinet and the rests shareholders should be most angry over their funds being wasted over this terria sham, now that terria didnt bid - shock, horror, haha!

    monopoly? Anonymous -- 01/12/08 (in reply to #320117143)

    monopoly wouldnt exist if one of your heroes paid out the money to extend without wanting a handout.

    Don't be so fricken naive, the other companies dont give enough of a rats **** to even let you have a usable mobile phone.

    You obviously dont have any idea what your talking about, and OPEL wasnt even going to do what was promised due to the limitations of what they were offering.. by the laws of physics.

    If your a true rural user, you'd know the only people who have ever done jack fucken **** for you is Telstra, and its pathetic that you sit here and bag them out. Personally I hope your stuck on dialup until one of your hero companies comes along on the white horse to rescue you, because Im sure thats going to take a very very long time.

    Typical really, when they extended out the ISDN to try and give more people faster or workable dialup, people were happy. Then in comes ADSL which wasnt even on the table at the time, and you all **** because you have to change from ISDN to get ADSL.

    P A T H E T I C

    OPELess Anonymous -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117134)

    wake up to the fact that OPELess was another scam for OPTUS to milk the taxpayer!!

    What's the point? Colin -- 26/11/08

    I'm not new to the NBN debate but I must confess I find this perplexing. To do a fibre rollout and still stick with their same unbelievably stingy plans - 1Mbps, 200MB quote (that's 30 minutes of d/l a month) - what a ridiculous outcome for Australia. Unless 12Mpbs or more is being actually provisioned to homes, with quotas to match, the dollars are better spent elsewhere.

    Speed Throtling costs more than allowing unlimited data Anonymous -- 26/11/08

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole idea of FTTN (FIBRE TO THE NODE) is to INCREASE the amount of throughput and data to end users. $29 for 200 Meg... C'mon, I can download over 300 meg a month via dial up on a 56.6K Modem up if I have it on 24/7. for just less than $10 a month.

    Paying for, and monitoring the equipment used to throttle speeds once a download limit is reached costs MORE (A LOT MORE) than allowing an unlimited amount of data through.

    Think about it. Does a 100 megabit switch use less electricity if it's on and sitting there not having traffic running through it, or does it use more electricity if it is working at 100% capacity... IT'S THE SAME !!! No more no less... I know, I checked with a Amp-Meter myself. Need I mention the servers, backups, manpwer and infrastructure needed to monitor and manage the throttling???

    Telstra thinks the $4,700,000,000 is an investment in it's stock, IT ISN'T. It's to Pay for the cost of the infrastructure. And to get me and every other Aussie FASTER and CHEAPER internet access. From Telstra it will be SLOWER AND MORE EXPENSIVE than it is now!!!

    In the USA I can pay $99US for Unlimited Phone calls and SMS on my mobile and Landline and unlimited unthrottled internet access 24/7 in the one package. They can afford to do this as they don't have the bandwith monitoring and throttling, and other overheads.

    NBN Anonymous -- 26/11/08

    It is quite likely that Telstra will take the 4.7n, declare their existing NextG coverage of 98% of the population as satisfying the NBN requireents and pocket the 4.7b, thank you, job done!

    Telstra = National Disgrace, Joke, Pathetic Phil hopkins -- 26/11/08

    Telstra is a national disgrace. Entry level plans of 1mbps and 200mb download for $29. I currently have access to 24mbps, and 25 gigabytes a month for $60 a month. Why would we spend a cent to have people on anything less than that!

    I feel sorry for anyone in the country who had OPEL cancelled on them - you've got no hope of a good broadband service for at least another 5 years now.

    Can someone get rid of the greedy mexican and his band of fools.

    Conjoint Ownership fixes Separation Issues Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu) -- 23/12/08 (in reply to #320117142)

    Telstra has said an entry-level sign-up for just 200MB would cost $29 (on top of your phone service). Note that there was no mention of what the other 90% will pay! Telstra has a long history of having 'entry-level' offers which seem cheap ('to the masses'), but actually bill in units people can't easily monitor till it's too late. There have been thousands of cases of people getting 'bill shock' when parents sign up for entry-level internet accounts and later discover kids downloaded movies etc, to cause a 20x-100x increase in the final bill. If you've allowed for decades that people be shocked to discover thousands of dollars in 19 sex-chat line billing, download bill shocks can be seen as just a continuation of such parasitic corporate behaviour. Other competitors are prepared to have fixed monthly internet billing, or speed-throttling only, but Telstra has made billions from ad-infinitum per-unit 'extra billing'... and this NBN submission indicates an intention to continue these past practices.

    I agree with other commentators that it really just confirms the need for structural or proper separation, and the need for more competition, not less, in any new higher-bandwidth services.

    Indeed, the only REAL answer to separation is (IMHO):
    Step1: The government's expert panel to decide what the NBN roll-out should comprise. An example would be NBN service to those within 3km (whatever technical limit) from an existing exchange, provided the number of telephone services within such ring was greater than 400 (say).... and the rest to be serviced by subsidised satellite dish service (per current rural subsidy).

    Step2: Once such network design/service parameters were known, determine rough overall network price worked out via pricing queries to likely infrastructure suppliers Alcatel, Lucent, Cisco etc,

    Step3: Offer to ALL existing telcos an opportunity to take up equity in new backbone network owning corporation (a government-endorsed regulated monopoly). Share entitlements ought be offered pro-rata to existing telco market share (contributors could also proportionately take up shares not taken up by others who elected to not participate). Add a sweetener of government funding and/or guaranteeing of up to $5b of total borrowings.

    With this 'level playing field' approach, every telco would want to take up its full entitlement, even though network would be owned conjointly, and wholesale prices would be regulated based on achieving target ROI. A refusnik telco faces the risk of being 'frozen out' by not getting its proportion of shareholder returns to off-set wholesale charges paid.

    The above arrangement would even bring Sol to the table, and in one swoop fix the 'separation' issue.

    dont worry Anonymous -- 26/11/08

    telstra cant win with that bid, and will have to build there own network to compete, which means large network competition for once

    7,6,5,4 bottles on the wall. Sydney Lawrence -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117144)

    It would probably be better if Telstra proceeds to roll-out their own FTTN. Forget the Government 4.7B that will quickly be swallowed up by the Optus/Terria/whoever pretenders before they go broke.

    if Anonymous -- 26/11/08 (in reply to #320117149)

    if telstra can build there own network, and convert there current customers over that could happen

    LMAO Anonymous -- 26/11/08

    Telstra fans thinks its OK for people to be ripped off by them.. Poor Telstra fans the poor sods blinded by the T.......

    Telstra submits non-compliant NBN bid Anonymous -- 26/11/08

    Simple contract/tender law...non compliant bids are rejected. And this what should happen to Telstra's bid. And lets see how smart the bastards are then. For years they have tried dictating to the consumers of this country and they have been let get away with it. I call on the government to proceed and select someone else. I particularly like Optus one that plans to start at the country end..as the city already has far better services. Burn in hell Telstra

    Free and open competition. Sydney Lawrence -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117199)

    Anonymous (this is boring why don't you identify yourself) you insult the Australian people by your dubious claim that Telstra dictate to the Australian consumers.

    Telstra is the number one service provider in Australia because they are freely chosen by the vast majority of Australians as the company that best serves their personal needs.

    insult? Simon -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117234)

    Actually Sydney, you insult the Australian people by trying to defend the indefensible.

    I find it a bit sad (and puzzling) that anyone would spend so much of their spare time doing Telstra marketing and spreading the latest propaganda. Telstra purposely harms Australians and you do your best to spread that harm too.

    Insult? I agree Mel Sommersberg -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117240)

    Sydney spends a lot of time thinking that he echoes the voice of the vast majority of Australians. I disapprove of this almost as much as I hate people who try and tell me how to vote.

    Sydney should start speaking for himself and stop marketing Telstra as our communications savour.

    How much are they paying you syd? Leon -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117234)

    Because really from just reading a small amount of articles on this topic [and site] you do seem rather overly defensive of telstra on this issue.

    Im not saying that the optus led terria bid should be taken mind you, but if its a choice between a sh*t sundae and going back to the drawing board, I still wouldnt be eating that sundae.

    Syd how can you be in anyway satisfied with this situation, how can this offering which brutally double F****s the australian people, who will now need to fork out 10bn for the network and then be overcharged for a service that offers nothing new as far as price and download quantity, not to mention a bit of vision.

    EVERYTHING TEL$TRA DOES IS NON-COMPLIANT Mel Sommersberg -- 27/11/08

    What Telstra has done here is admit they don't have the capacity (or in fact the desire) to cater for the national interest. Their bid is C R A P and if Senator Conroy has any brains at all he will take the document and wipe his backside with it.

    cut the bs mel, pleeeeeease! ned kelly -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117244)

    i tend to agree with the basis of your comment mel, but minus all the childish rhetoric. yes it was a bit of a left of field tack telstra has taken.

    but me being the eternal fence sitter, let me ask you to also tell us about the company you supported, terria's bid too?

    tell us about how great their bid was (as you indicated it would be, previously) and how fantastic terrias network will be!

    they didn't even bid did they?

    so really, even telstra's CRAP bid is better than terrias constipation.

    about time you took a more even handed approach mel. you, keith, charles, terry and akira are all looking more and more like sydney, but in reverse.

    War of 2 companies? joe -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117304)

    lol i hope the fence isnt 1 of those spiky 1's hey ned, :P but I'm placing all my hope in that dark horse acacia! i never supported terria other than to say I'd much rather have them than telstra

    Go ACACIA!!!

    @war ned kelly -- 27/11/08 (in reply to #320117317)

    rofl joe. yes mate it is certainly a bit spikey.

    unfortunately i can never win, when i attack telstra the fan bois want a piece of me and when i do likewise with terria, optus etc the other sides loose cannons attack me too, lmao

    oh well, all part of being a bush ranger i guess. good thing i have my armour!

    Ned Kelly, the "eternal fence sitter" Anonymous -- 28/11/08 (in reply to #320117304)

    I'm getting a bit sick of you and your fence sitting claims ned, nobody cares and we can all tell by your comments where you really stand

    Superb fearless Aussie. Sydney Lawrence -- 28/11/08 (in reply to #320117415)

    Ned when they start to attack a straight shooter like you their own bias really shows. Keep up the good work and call it as you see it. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    The Telstra in your Ear Sir Redmond Barry -- 29/11/08 (in reply to #320117449)

    but Syd! he's said bad things about telstra! our beloved australian icon! when someone says something bad about telstra all the australian children cry! He obviously is biased if he said anything bad about telstra, cause telstra is perfect... I bet its a singaporean made fence he's sitting on!

    Ah yes, perfect Telstra! Anonymous -- 29/11/08 (in reply to #320117510)

    Telstra is such a great company, they are perfect and nobody should dare question them about having the best interests of the country at heart in what they do. That's why it just took me three weeks of dicking around continually chasing them to connect the phone to my new house and eventually got an ex-Telstra linesman mate to over and do it - join the lead-in conduit from the house to conduit coming over from the pit on the other side of the street and pull the cable through from the pit. And this is metropolitan Adelaide. Yes, Telstra truly are an infallible Australian Icon of Perfection!

    @ned Anonymous -- 29/11/08 (in reply to #320117415)

    if you dont like what he has to say ignore him, or even better ***k off.

    @ ned kelly Anonymous -- 29/11/08 (in reply to #320117415)

    is that you mel?

    believe what you want, but it seems most people realize that unlike you and the majority here, i am legitimately open minded and have no favourites, because my wallet wont change either way, like yours will, depending on the nbn winner.

    i'll tell you now that up until the bids went in my preference was for a telstra nbn build, only because the main competitor terria were a farce. since then, terria didn't bid, which simply proves this.

    however, with legitimate bids coming from acacia, axia, transact, tassie government and of course one from optus/terria (and btw, optus are my mobile supplier) which im still sceptical about, let me say, if these others can build it in a timely manner, within budget and provide it to the consumer for less than telstra can, great, go for it!

    but lets be realistic, they'd have to do it without using telstra's equipment or compensate telstra owners if they use their equipment.

    whether us non shareholders like it, accept it or not, this is the system we live by and telstra was sold. It is now owned by shareholders, so lets be fair and reasonable to the actual owners, even if we hate telstra and trujillo.

    I don't support Terria's bid Mel Sommersberg -- 01/12/08 (in reply to #320117304)

    Ned, as per usual you interpret what people say incorrectly. I don't sit here and back Terria to the hilt. All I want to be sure of is that Telstra doesn't win the FTTN contract. Why? Because I don't want one company owning two networks. It isn't fair and it doesn't make any sense. Australia isn't a socialist or communist state so we shouldn't allow one entity to control everything.

    As for your comment about fence sitting - I wouldn't lower myself. I am not afraid of doing some research and basing my opinions on fact, even if you are.

    @ i dont support ned kelly -- 01/12/08 (in reply to #320117634)

    read my lips mel, i have no favourites.

    you can use semantics and be pedantic all you want, but instead of focusing on me, what about you?

    rofl, of course you dont support terrias bid, they dont have a bid. your just being facetious, surely?

    but by the tone and degree of your hatred towards telstra (and i repeat hatred) i believe you will personally gain financially from any negativity towards telstra. people don't get that excited for nothing.

    you say, Aust, isnt a communist state, so we shouldn't allow one entity to control everything. mel thats a contradictiory statement. are you requesting open competition free of regulations? it is regulations which make us closer to socialism than a private, non state/government owned utility having a capitalistic monopoly!

    regardless of that strange interpretation i do agree with you, one entity shouldn't control everything.

    so i guess thats the argument. some say telstra is a monopoly and others say, there are 100's of competitors with open access to telstra network, there is no monoploy!

    so back to me, because i wont directly gain either way, doesn't mean i don't have thoughts on who is best for what! i just dont feel the need to jump up and down and shove my opinion down your throat as you do me. i do not support anyone, because 'again' they are simply businesses to the average person who isn't a stakeholder.

    so once again let me repeat, i will not directly gain, like 99% of people who comment here, simply for their own selfish agendas!

    Good luck.

    Telstra has no credibility at all. Mel Sommersberg -- 01/12/08 (in reply to #320117648)

    I'll admit something to you Ned, just so that you know where I stand on certain issues. I'll admit quite readily that I will back the bidder that makes the best promises to both the Commonwealth and prospective customers for a reasonable return on investment and fair treatment of customers. If that is "selfish" as you have called it then yes, I am selfish, along with dozens of other users here and hundreds of thousands of people out there that want a choice in who they connect with.

    Telstra currently does not qualify for this because their plans are restrictive, support is poor, prices are too high and plan options either not available or again too expensive.

    Solomon Trujillo has openly admitted that Telstra's shareholders are more important to him than his customers. I have already told people at Telstra that I respect his wishes to serve his shareholders before his customers as this is his choice to make as Telstra CEO.

    However I also have a choice as a customer to refrain from supporting or endorsing that philosophy and again, perhaps because I am selfish. But what is so bad about being selfish when this company is taking my money and giving it to their shareholders whilst refusing point-blank to offer me as comprehensive a product as can be offered by someone else for less outlay?

    I can't honestly list one single product offered by Telstra or their subsidiaries that gives better value for money than similar products offered by Telstra's competitors.

    For example, one of my connections to the Internet is ADSL2+ with a static IP, all ports open so I can run servers, 15GB of downloads, free uploads and more often than not a possible 24Mbit download bandwidth. This costs me $51.00. Line rental of $27.00 is on top of that however as I signed up to a 2 year plan I got 6 months of free line rental to kick things off. I've had the plan going for close to a year now and there has only been one dropout lasting more than a few minutes and around six dropouts over the whole time. The closest plan from Bigpond is the 12GB Liberty plan for $90.00 - who knows what they charge for line rental but it would certainly be on top of the $90.00 and you get 3GB less downloads and a static IP is extra.

    So as you can see, I am perfectly justified in being selfish. I am glad I don't pi$$ into the pockets of Telstra shareholders because I can save around $40 a month in not doing-so.

    @ ned kelly Anonymous -- 02/12/08 (in reply to #320117659)

    "there are 100's of competitors with open access to telstra network, there is no monopoly"

    In theory, yes. In theory, if you have had your eyes and ears closed for the past 15 years, yes that statement is correct. But I think you'll find that there have been countless complaints and reports about Telstra not allowing access to their network, for up to 18 months. This is something they are supposed to be LEGALLY required to do. Not only that, but several ISP's have reported telstra approaching their customers days after the ISP's have said that Telstra has told them they don't have any 'room' for them. Which can only mean that the form of separation in place now is not working or simply being ignored.

    @ ned kelly, well a lil bit joe -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117711)

    "degree of your hatred towards telstra (and i repeat hatred) i believe you will personally gain financially "
    I have probably the same degree of hatred, and telstra's the 1 paying me... I think Mels just experienced the same degree of anti-customer service that i'm paid to dish out every-day...

    and as for anon with the blocking access to exchanges i'd have to agree with him that they do, it takes iinet 6months + to get in, but a telstra ADSL tech gets a booking within 2 days

    Telstra employee, yes. Anonymous -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320117775)

    Joe,

    If you are actually a Telstra employee, which seems highly improbable by the tone of your comments, I think you need to stop bagging your employer just for the sake of it and start having a good look at yourself and your own work ethics, which are highly questionable at best.

    @telstra employee Paul -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320117876)

    Good point. If he is a Telstra employee???? he will say what have I done, and be the first to cry foul when his job is outsourced overseas. So Joe, 'when this happens', instead of blaming anyone else, just go back and read all of your comments and see what kind of 'wonderful employee you are, sorry, were'.

    @joe ned kelly -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320117894)

    touche` in relation to joe, gents.

    also we know mel wouldn't have an unbiased bone in his body and really is getting a reputation like sydney, but visa versa in his content of course.

    as for anonymous, he or she only seems to use quotes from previous comments to attempt to discredit and then push their own biased agenda, rather than actually making a worthy comment.

    just like joe and terry do and james bell used to. coincidence? maybe, mabe not.

    @ ned Anonymous -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320117903)

    .. I thought it was a worthy comment. You don't think it's interesting that almost every other ISP using telstra's network has reported unhelpful service and unreasonable difficulties in getting access? I'm all for open access but I think my definition and telstra's definition may differ greatly.

    not worthy ned kelly -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320117924)

    of course the isps will say that and of course telstra will say no we dont.

    you obviously, and perhaps without any proof, blindly believe the isps, whereas i believe that telstra must be doing it, but nowhere near the extent the other isps claim. I also believe the others would do it, if the roles were reversed.

    but google the topic and you will find that although the accc are again looking into it, graham samuels formerly did so and found no grounds to support the isps claims.

    so to answer your question. no i dont think its worthy, but thats just my thoughts.

    really, unless you are associated with isps and receive fringe benefits, you need to realize none of these companies are our friends. they are all out to do the same, look after themselves and their stakeholders with our money.

    you obviously believe telstra are the main culprits in relation to price gouging and you may be right. because really when one company is dominant, the others need to be more attractive to lure business. this isn't them being kind, its just business, they want our money too. surely you understand this, it is commonsense!

    so dont be naive enough to believe the others are any better than telstra. they are all the same.

    Compromise Anonymous -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320117937)

    Alright Ned, I'll agree with you there. But I think we still disagree on the structural separation topic. It's my belief that a company that provides a network to ISP's shouldn't also be competing with them - take away the motivation to do it and there's no reason for them to do it.

    Thanks for the compromise and likewise ned kelly -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320117942)

    Thanks anoymous and no we dont necessarily disagree there. in a perfect world structural separation would certainly be best, no doubt.

    however some people cant see that unfortunately, this situation is anything but perfect. firstly we have telstra, who were sold to investors (again i am not one) but whether you believe the investors to be battling aussie mums and dads or greedy money grabbers, is immaterial. these people are now the rightful owners, whether we like it or not. this is how our system works!

    their property cannot be taken without just compensation and their company cannot be split unless management agrees and investors vote to do so. no matter how much you or i hate telstra.

    however the terms of the nbn could be made so, which would then by their own admission, exclude telstra, but bring in a whole different set of hurdles, if the winner wishes to access telstras network.

    then we have the global credit crunch. this is forcing large businesses to the wall and in need of bailouts. who would ever have thought, the big US car makers and banks would go belly up.

    to counter this companies are looking to merge. just yesterday news of qantas/BA and today japans nippon mining/nippon oil and many others, are all considering merging to become larger entities. plus with share prices at very tempting lows, companies are now prime takeover tagets. so companies are becoming bigger, not smaller, at a time when we are wanting australia's telstra to be broken into smaller companies, primed for takeover?

    quite sometime ago here on zd i read links posted about singtels argument against structural separation in singapore and also a link to an analyst (whos name escapes me, sorry) who spelled out the pros and cons of structural separation, with the cons surprisingly to me at the time, outweighing the pros. he went onto say that currently telstra subsidise different parts of their business. For example, if one area is profitable and another not so, they take money from the profitable area to support the less profitable, makes sense. but when structurally separated into 2 or 3 businesses, they (or anyone else) cant do this.

    which means if the nbn isn't profitable, the separate builder, cant subsidize from elsewhere, so any shortfall would simply *have to be passed onto to wholesalers*. and guess what they will do? increase prices and *we would pay more*.

    i dont know if this is so, but the way he explained it (which was better than i just did) made perfect sense.

    so in the current financial situation it would seem almost certain that the cost of the nbn will blow out and either the government (us the taxpayers) or the wholesalers (via us the customers) would have to pay more, whether there be no structural separation but *perhaps* even more so, if there is structural separation.

    so to be honest, i really dont know *what is best for us now*? might be easier to just bring on the perfect world.

    no? joe -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117876)

    I always thought my ethic was great, but apparently because I explain a customers case to them I breach telstra's policy, because I spent more than 5 minutes getting through to cable assign becase sales screwed up a new connection, because i gave a pregnant woman a free call to her husband from a payphone... all these i always assumed would come under good customer service, as I'm sure many here would probably agree, well, apparently not, I am Happy to fax a copy of my seperate warnings, naming those exact things as the source of tesltra's discomfort

    Also I'm not sure how i can prove I'm an employee without losing this super fantastic happy fun time job, I am currently searching for a new job, so I'll happily give you guys all my details then but until then, anyone any ideas how i can prove im tesltra without giving my name and my exact employee number?

    @no Anonymous -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118000)

    I hope if you gain new employment at another Telco or ISP and you aren't happy there too you will come back everyday to tell us how hopeless the new boss is too.

    But I thought your name was Joe? sorry Sol.

    oh no joe -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118019)

    im not that fussy, I used to work for coles, Awesome customer ethic there, customer needed something, coles would bend over backwards to get it, even if it wasnt going to make a profit on it, quite the opposite of telstra... and my one up boss, she is terrific, if sol could follow her lead then australia would have decent internet and good cust service, i truly believe she needs a pay rise, majority of my collauges, hard working people who make the work day bearable... My hatred is directed to the higher echelons, the people who can truly say their telstra, the one's who make decisions, these are the people that when i have a pit lid that a custs children have fallen in to, send a technician to put a barricade around it, then 1 1/2 yrs later when its still broken have the guts to turn around and tell the cust they've done all they legally have to with the barricade up, but hey her phone goes off when ever it rains, we dont care, the barricades up, I have come across so many broken promises, such shody treatment of custs and non-custs alike, so many corners been cut since working here, the only reason I'm here is im newly moved out and i need the job, lease renewal is up and 1 of the conditions is a stable job (1 yr+ employ) hence im stuck and cant move

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