Telstra slams ACCC court foray

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's (ACCC) decision to take Telstra to court for allegedly lying about being unable to provide wholesale services to other carriers was a waste of court time and money, the telco said today.

Quilty

David Quilty (Credit: Telstra)

"The ACCC is suing us for something we proactively and voluntarily reviewed and fixed a year ago," Telstra's group managing director, public policy and communication, David Quilty said in a statement this afternoon.

Since we fixed the problem a year ago, the ACCC has not once suggested it had problems with our new processes

Telstra's David Quilty

Telstra said it had started a review of its processes for determining when an exchange building was full in the beginning of 2008 and that the ACCC had from July last year received good insight into what the company was doing by introducing new regulations which forced Telstra to keep a record of activities in telephone exchanges.

Until now, Telstra said, the Commission had not notified the telco of any problems with its processes.

"There was an issue and we fixed it — without the involvement of the ACCC. Since we fixed the problem a year ago, the ACCC has not once suggested it had problems with our new processes," Quilty said.

Telstra has more than 5,000 exchanges, according to the company, which said that originally 76 had been listed as full, but that as a result of the review, 24 exchanges were immediately removed from the list with 24 others listed as "potentially capped". According to the ACCC this means an exchange is capped until out-of-the-ordinary works have been completed.

"You have a situation where a company proactively checks its processes, finds minor and inadvertent errors, immediately rectifies the problem but is hounded through the courts regardless," Quilty said.

Telstra is obliged to sell unbundled local loop and line sharing services to other telcos who want to provide voice or ADSL2+ broadband to their retail customers. The ACCC has alleged that Telstra refused access to seven key metropolitan exchanges because there wasn't any space for the access seekers to install their equipment in the exchanges when there actually was space or could have been with some action.

iiNet's chief regulatory officer Steve Dalby said that the case showed the need for "substantial and wide sweeping" regulatory reform, including complete structural separation of Telstra and the National Broadband Network (NBN) regardless of who built it. He also said it showed why Telstra should not be given the keys to any new network.

He said that Telstra had prevented iiNet from servicing customers by falsely claiming exchanges were capped on numerous occasions.

Today's action is by the ACCC shows why delivering the NBN with clear regulatory guidelines is the most important decision ever made for Australian Broadband consumers

Optus' Andrew Sheridan

"Customers have been, and will continue to be, the losers with slower, more expensive and less broadband competition until full regulatory reform is undertaken and Telstra is broken up," Dalby said

Optus was quick to point to its NBN proposal as a way to end the pain. "Today's action is by the ACCC shows why delivering the NBN with clear regulatory guidelines is the most important decision ever made for Australian Broadband consumers," Andrew Sheridan, general manager of regulatory at Optus, said in a statement.

"Optus' NBN proposal clearly outlines how to mend and thus unlock the true benefits of broadband — availability, choice, high speeds and affordable prices."

He said that the action showed that a regulation-free industry was impossible with Telstra. "If we did remove regulation can we really trust Telstra to guarantee open and equivalent access for its competitors?" he asked. "The current dysfunctional state of the fixed line market would indicate that the answer is a resounding no."

The Competitive Carriers' Coalition said its members had been complaining for years about access to Telstra exchanges and the case showed why no National Broadband Network operator could be a wholesaler and a retailer of services.

The Federal Court is holding a directions hearing on the matter on Friday 17 April in Melbourne. The ACCC will be looking to slap monetary penalties on Telstra if it succeeds in its case.

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Talkback 53 comments

    God help Australia. Sydney Lawrence -- 19/03/09

    Get these trumped up idiots off Telstra's back. They are in the process of creating the greatest foul-up ever seen in Australia's history.

    Please keep going Anonymous -- 19/03/09 (in reply to #320126159)

    Keep going ACCC - it's time we broke these arrogant pricks once and for all. If we really try hard we can get the share price sub-$1. Bad news to Telstra is great to me!

    Sickening. Sydney Lawrence -- 19/03/09 (in reply to #320126167)

    This sort of comment could not be from a fair dinkum Australian. Telstra employs 44 thousand Australians and is vitally important to every Australian. Shame on you Anonymous, I understand why you refuse to reveal your identy.

    Amusing Les Tapuska -- 19/03/09 (in reply to #320126174)

    Sydney I would love you to be CEO of Telstra at least we could have an honest manager and not one full of spin.
    But as Don Chipp once said "You need to keep the bastards honest" And who can blame Telstra for trying to screw their competitors isn't it what competition is all about?

    A day we may live to regret Vasso Massonic -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126186)

    Sydney, I agree with your comment, time for action.

    Dear Premier of Victoria

    The day after Telstra Salutes its Victorian bushfire workers (
    http://www.nowwearetalking.com.au/news/telstra-salutes-bushfire-workers-148 )
    The ACCC took court action against Telstra which cost, Telstra investors, the community and, in particular the retirement nest eggs of millions of Australians, $871 million.

    Telstra refutes the allegation, see below, and would, no doubt, welcome somewords of support from your good self.

    Vasso Massonic
    Retired Telstra Shareholder.

    Posted by: nowwearetalking editor
    19 March 2009

    The ACCC�s court action against Telstra today is a transparent attempt to pave the way for further legislative shackles on Telstra.

    Telstra's Group Managing Director Public Policy and Communications David Quilty said it was a complete waste of court time and taxpayer money.

    "The ACCC is suing us for something we proactively and voluntarily reviewed and fixed a year ago. This case relates to a small number of inadvertent process issues. There was an issue and we fixed it � without the involvement of the ACCC. Since we fixed the problem a year ago, the ACCC has not once suggested it had problems with our new processes.�

    In recent years, there has been tremendous growth in the number of access seekers to Telstra exchanges, and Telstra has accommodated � and heavily subsidised - these competitors. There are now nearly 1.2 million unbundled local loop and spectrum sharing services in operation through Telstra exchanges. In July 2003, there were just 18,000 unbundled local loop and only seven spectrum sharing services.

    The ACCC was informed about Telstra�s review of access to its exchanges. In July 2008, the ACCC instituted a reporting regime to keep an eye on the process. To Telstra's knowledge, no issues have been identified by the ACCC under Telstra's current processes.

    Now, some nine months later, the ACCC has sued Telstra for a past failure to allow access to a handful of exchanges.

    �The ACCC has consistently campaigned for greater powers to meddle in the telecommunications industry,� Mr Quilty said. �Taking court action a year after this issue was resolved is a clear demonstration of what is wrong with the current regime and the way it is administered."

    At the beginning of 2008, in response to industry concerns, Telstra proactively reviewed its processes for determining when an exchange building was full and hence unavailable for competitors to install their equipment. Telstra has more than 5000 exchanges. Originally, 76 were listed as full. As a result of the review, new processes were put in place and 24 exchanges were immediately removed from the list, while 24 others were listed as potentially capped, leaving less than 1 per cent of exchanges categorised as full.

    "You have a situation where a company proactively checks its processes, finds minor and inadvertent errors, immediately rectifies the problem but is hounded through the courts regardless," Mr Quilty said.

    very sickening indeed Anonymous -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126174)

    It's so sickening Sydney that your beloved Telstra intends to layoff 10s of thousands of workers! By my reckoning it's been 12,000 so far. if that's fair dinkum Aussie behaviour, then I do not care what happens to Telstra. How do you explain this behaviour by your beloved Telstra mate? Or is this just 'necessary' downsizing. IBM worked out a long time ago that market reputation and integrity are the basis for corporate longevity. Telstra has not worked this out and is therefore suffering. Market dominance means sweet f.a. when nobody wants to work with you or buy from you (think government, suppliers and employees).

    What Is Your Point Sydney? Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126174)

    "This sort of comment could not be from a fair dinkum Australian" - funny how Sydney I would have said exactly the same thing about you.

    I reckon Sydney, that you come either from the good old USA (pronounced user) or you're just paid by Telstra to make your inane commentary to support Telstra blindly. Anyone who loves Sol so much couldn't really be a shareholder bcoz he hasn't really done too well, also couldn't be a Telstra service user bcoz their service is adequate but at a higher than reasonable price for pathetic upload/download, doesn't live in the country where the Telstra service provision is rudimentary at best, so what are you Sydney?

    You're too bright to be a robot but never have anything to say that really means anything in the scheme of these debates. You profess blindly your love of everything Telstra & exude the same Australian zealotry of a cricket official but I fear your technical misinformation is gleaned only from what you read here & you actually have none of your own.

    Your dispassionate remarks at others who make bold statements about their own personal feelings about Telstra & Sol, always supporting these 2, leaves you with little to no credibility at all bcoz you disregard their comments with no excuse, no reasoning & no point. You side with those who agree with you making note of how brilliant they have been for coming up with a POV that suits you but still I have yet to see you come up with any argument whatever to support your dismissal of someone else's POV that disputes yours.

    I wonder if your argument is based on all things Australian, but no, you're happy to have overseas running Telstra. I wonder about your technical prowess which I figure is fairly average at best. I wonder if you really have anything worth saying at all if you can't come up with a POV that has something behind it that makes sense in the current issue. Rather than just disagreeing with someone or agreeing with them bcoz they're on your side Sydney, have you anything to offer? What is it that you know that makes your point so worthwhile reading? What is it about my point that makes your point so much better Sydney?

    You never actually have a point, that is my point. You disagree, you side with & you judge as do we all but you have no point when someone has made a point you just decry that point if you don't like it but you never have anything of substance to support your commentary.

    Et tu Brute! Sydney Lawrence -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126304)

    Rex, what's your point?

    rex Anonymous -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126320)

    he doesn't have a point. he's just a senile moron, with a strange fixation to you sydney.

    Please keep going Anonymous -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126167)

    Are you for real or just trolling? What a tosser!

    Time to speak up Australia. Sydney Lawrence -- 20/03/09

    Les Tapuska you nail the problem exactly when you identify the basis of true competition.

    Telstra opponents demand a fair go from Telstra, the use of Telstra plant and equipment etc, but do not disclose their true agenda which is to infiltrate Telstra facilities, pilfer Telstra customers and eventually defeat Telstra.

    This is competition, and we all accept it, but not when one party (Telstra) is forced to fight with one hand tied behind its back and also with direction from the ACCC to help opponents, who deviously scheme and plan destroy Telstra and establish themselves as a monopoly NBN owner.

    How any Australian Government could plan to have foreigners take control of Australia's vital NBN communication system is beyond me. Also, the possibility of up to 10,000 Australian Telstra workers losing their jobs as a result is a sad reflection on the Rudd Government.

    Foreigner Bogey Tassiturn -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126213)

    Sydney

    I thought you'd have realised by now that the "foreigner" bogey doesn't work.

    Comparing Australia's Telstra backwater with what they've got overseas, I think Australians (patriotic Australians!) realise we need outside help if we're ever going to progress.

    @foreigner Anonymous -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126258)

    Bring back Sol maybe? hehe!

    SOS SOL. Sydney Lawrence -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126258)

    Agree Tassiturn and Australia and Telstra got it with champion Sol Trujillo.

    Re: Time to speak up Australia. James Henstridge -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126213)

    The complaint everyone has about Telstra is that Telstra's wholesale arm is giving their retail arm an unfair advantage.

    Rather than Telstra fighting with one arm behind their back, they are fighting with a pair of brass knuckles.

    Whether the current matter was intentional or not, Telstra benefited from the situation: Telstra's retail arm could sell broadband services in those markets while competitors couldn't.

    If there is no penalty for this, then there is no incentive for Telstra to make sure it never happens again. They'll just continue to "unintentionally" disadvantage Telstra Retail competitors. If the ACCC didn't take this seriously, then there would be reason to complain.

    Ridiculous Sydney Rex Alfie Lee -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126213)

    "One hand tied behind the back". Well unfortunately Sydney that was the state of the union when Telstra became private. They had to share, they had to provide service to everyone in OZ & share their resources which they got bcoz Australians paid for it. Australians paid for it when Telstra were Telecom Australia & it was provided as a monopoly. There was no-one else to compete with.

    The creation of what we grew up with which was 1920's technology, was hardly upgraded until the last 20 years. Telstra's monopoly is based on billions of dollars of telephone calls overcharged for 30-plus years. They hold a monopoly still that was delivered by the taxpayers. This monopoly continues to screw each & every user of its so-called service & scream & carry on when it doesn't get its own way with the ACCC. This behaviour is American, not Australian. It's about crying poor when the company continues to pour billions into its own coffers, paying out the reprobates who interfere with the running of the company, removing the workers that built the company & providing a basic service for high cost.

    They have staved off sharing their service to their competitors, another demand in the becoming a private company by using antiquated patching that immediately interrupts the competitors service & cannot be replaced by this company. For this alone the board of directors should be imprisoned. Sol should be imprisoned & his pay forfeited. If this type of behaviour was displayed in any other business it would be seen as anti-competitive besides being anti-progressive.

    Agree davo -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126291)

    Well said Rex, Telstra agreed to the rules when privatised and then changed it's mind. Telstra either plays by the rules or it must structurally separate retail and wholesale.
    Any flag waving nonsense about linking "Australian" and Telstra is just that, nonsense.

    Real Truth Michael Saunders -- 20/03/09

    The real truth is the government sold Telstra the network on one condition. The condition is companies like mine "TSN" are giving a fair go in being able to purchase on the network

    I am not going to state specific cases but I can tell you I don't believe this is happening. I am not trying to rob Telstra I am just trying to use the network based on a condition it was sold.

    Great news! TelstraSpinMakesMeDizzy -- 20/03/09

    This is great news. Should have happened earlier. Hopefully competitors get their rightful compensation for lost earnings out of this. More importantly, it highlights Telstras continued arrogance and its constant role as a roadblock in the advancement of broadband in this country. The Australian consumer has to be the winner. The NBN and separation of Telstra will drive us a long way towards that end.
    Telstra made their own bed. Its time for them to lie in it.
    Isnt it a shame the gutless American management team arent sticking around to be answerable for the damage they have done.
    Rats from a sinking ship?? Absolutely!

    Always two sides. Sydney Lawrence -- 20/03/09

    Michael Saunders, by your written expressions you are a well balanced and intelligent debater.

    You do have grounds for arguement and your concerns seem factual. In fact I would think that with your sensible attitude Telstra should and, I expect would, work with you in the interests of yourself and Telstra.

    As a wise person once said "no matter how thin the pancake, there is always two sides". As adult and reasonable people we must always consider the points of view of others.

    Can I Lick You Michael, Please? Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126230)

    Oh Sydney, that is so sad. Adult & reasonable is something that Telstra have shown themselves to not be. When you don't like someone's POV, you just dismiss it without understanding & get all untouchable bcoz they respond in a way that you don't like. Get a POV that has some reasoning in it rather than just disputing someone else's POV that doesn't agree with your own.

    As for acting holier than thou as you are right now, wow, how phoney are you?

    @ SL and VM Tailgator -- 20/03/09

    Telstra's customers had been complaining for years about being unfairly and incorrectly blocked from some exchanges. Yet Telstra did nothing until just months before the ACCC announced an inquiry into the matter, and a subsequent increase in monitoring and also reporting by Telstra. (Surprise surprise)

    FACT. Telstra broke the law. It is now being taken to court for that breach.
    FACT. That Telstra fixed the problem (in the face of a looming enquiry) does not change the fact that it broke the law.
    FACT. Telstra is not above the law and should pay the penalty for breaking the law.
    FACT. No amount of abuse, nationalist rhetoric, nor Orwellian revisionist history writing will change the first four facts.

    Simple really.

    @SL Anonymous -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126264)

    Even though it's just Telstra, I believe innocent until proven guilty still applies?

    So does egg on face, if the charges are overturned.

    So although gratifying, it may be best to wait for the outcome, Tailgator?

    Egg Can Fall More Ways Than One Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126269)

    I wonder Mr Anoni-mouse what you will say if Tailgater has hit the nail on the head. I guess you'll just not write for a little while until everything blows over rather than being upfront & admitting you were wrong.

    I for one would be very surprised if Telstra were found innocent but would be even more surprised to know how they got out of it. I'd like to know how when they've been pulling the wool for so long over so many faces. It would be harder for me to believe they are innocent than OJ is of murdering his wife.

    Innocent until proven guilty? Tailgator -- 20/03/09

    "There was an issue and we fixed it "

    Sounds like an admission of guilt to me.

    Guilty! Anonymous -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126279)

    Ok, but watch out for those eggs.

    Garbage In, Garbage Out! Rex Alfie Lee -- 20/03/09

    "You have a situation where a company proactively checks its processes, finds minor and inadvertent errors, immediately rectifies the problem but is hounded through the courts regardless," Quilty said. What a load of bollocks. This is just propaganda to shift blame away from your dysfunctional organisation. Anyway, Quilty, you're a liar. You're company has done nothing but ignore problems as much as they can get away with for as long as they possibly could.
    1/ "Immediately" couldn't be further from the truth.
    2/ "Proactively checks its processes", always have done as most of the system processing is about faults anyway (I know bcoz I used to work in that area & this has been running long before Telstra became private)
    3/ "Finds minor and inadvertent errors" but ignores them is more to the point unless it means a loss of major revenue. Most minor faults take up to 4 weeks to be looked at. Major ones are dealt with immediately bcoz it's a loss of revenue. The techies on the ground are too thin on the ground to fix the number of minor faults in anything under 2 weeks. Telstra just couldn't care less.

    I repeat Quilty, you're a liar.

    question answered sydney Anonymous -- 20/03/09 (in reply to #320126289)

    you just got your answer about rex's association with telstra sydney.

    Dear Anony-mouse Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126292)

    You tool. I have acknowledged that I worked for Telecom Australia many, many times in the many discussions with Sydney. I have also mentioned many times that I worked in computing for Telecom in those years. This is not news Anony-mouse, you tool!

    rex don't like d truth Anonymous -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126308)

    does the truth hurt rex? you, ill tempered imbecile.

    if you did disclose to sydney in many discussions, why did sydney ask you this, only 2 days ago?

    from fake stephen conroy is telstra staffer

    Come clean Rex.
    Sydney Lawrence -- 19/03/09 (in reply to #320126022)

    Rex I note you say " the last thing OUR industry needs" could be very enlightening.

    Rex just who do you represent with your continual demonising of Telstra????

    -

    you are nothing more than a lying, bitter, senile old man. which would explain why telstra sacked you and why you hate them.

    so how about another of those halfwitted, non cohesive poems, so we can all continue laughing at you? perhaps you could call it anony-mouse, thats's a very clever start, clown.

    Absolute Outrage!! joe -- 21/03/09

    Shame ACCC shame!!!

    Telstra is fair dinkum true blue burnt snag on a barbie, qantas'sy australian company!! how dare the ACCC plot and scheme against australians in the depths of their dungeon of malevolent hatred, surrounded by their hawks of optus'sy satanism! (they had a sale of 'sy words)
    Telstra should be able to do what the hell they want! their australian!!! fair competition, yeah f that, their australian, they should be allowed to kick in doors and search every domicile for optus branded equipment!! bloody foreingers i tells ya mate!! right now sitting in singaporoarean'sy land with their pointed beaks and devils horns, laughing evilly at how australians are buying their cheaper, yet comparable on service plans!! haha! the fools! dont you realize there not australian!!

    The ACCC is a shadow puppet of evilness, bloody foreingers mate, there the source of everything wrongs i tells ya!! I say every australian should take it upon themselves to find every non telstra customers and deport them back to where ever they came from, I tells ya!!

    I personally am super dooper burnt snag on a barbie aussie, hence i am ringing up telstra right now to give them my every bank detail, credit card and deed to my house, because by george their australian, and its their right to a** r*pe us all till kingdom come!!

    Too Funny Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126300)

    If it weren't the truth it'd be funny.

    Telstra's Reputation Anonymous -- 21/03/09

    I think it speaks volumes about Telstra's reputation that on any given Telstra story (here or on any other site) typically the number of supporters is very small and they are usually shouted down by a tidal wave of anti Telstra sentiment.
    Can any of the Telstra supporters really believe that Telstra has done nothing to deserve it's reputation as an arrogant and antagonistic company that consistently abuses it's monopoly position in the market?
    I also find it hard to believe that anyone could be such a fierce supporter of Telstra as Sydney Lawrence, without them having a vested interest in Telstra's future prospects.
    (Anonymous because I wouldn't want any of my opinions to be falsely attributed to my employer who is a supplier of Telstra).

    Sydney's Reputation Rex Alfie Lee -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126301)

    We wonder where My Lawrence gets his fierce supporting stance from. We think it's a bought one. There's a new name out there for someone who gets on these lines & blindly supports an organisation in the way that Mr Lawrence does, without facts, without points & without any kind of acknowledgement of another's POV unless it's pro-Telstra or pro-Sol.

    I believe their job description is to disrupt the POV's of those who have points to say by confusing the issue without adding any real information to the issue. Microsoft uses this ploy regularly to hold up processes. They did this with their XML document format by handing over reams of information that had little to do with the document format itself. What it did do is buy them time by forcing the members to read this spam information so M$ could overrun the board with M$-friendly people & eventually won them their case with software that is junk. Unfortunately I've forgotten the term for these paid solicitors of spam information. Nevertheless I'm sure Mr Lawrence is one of them & uses more than one pseudonym.

    The mistake by Sydney here is that each opponent to Telstra has a real problem that hasn't been dealt with by Telstra in an appropriate manner. These writers tend to not be blown off by Sydney even though he does try to blow them off without respect of their issues. My own issue with Telstra is that I seriously dislike abuse by monopolies, not just Telstra & for Sydney's background info, M$ is my fave, George Bush, then Johnnie K-K-K-Howard, then Telstra & finally Sol. I don't really have a personal angst against Telstra but I like fairness. I do however dislike issueless cretins who write diatribe here without a point. Over to you Sydney.

    sydney and rex, twins Anonymous -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126309)

    perhaps he was sacked by optus and holds a grudge, just like you were with telstra, senile imbecile.

    you and sydney are like twin brothers, just on opposing sides. so if you think sydney looks foolish, go look in the mirror, clown.

    Let Australians decide. Sydney Lawrence -- 21/03/09

    Rex Alfie Lee, your responses are dynamic and very entertaining but sadly I think you are consumed by two problems.

    Firstly, you have an issue with Telstra caused by some happening that occured when you were in their employ. Only you, and possibly Telstra, would know the origin of your hostility but it is sad that is is causing your such mental hostility and confusion.

    Secondly, for whatever reason, you have joined those whose financial survival dictates that they continue their demonization of Telstra. Their, and probably your, hope is that if you throw enough mud some will stick.

    Your devious trick has had little success as is shown by the undeniable fact that Telstra remains Australia's favourite telco services provider. Quality of product is superior to your masters and Telstra is upgrading service.

    I do understand your intense desire to damage Telstra as the NBN gives you an opportunity to appeal to Government and call for the banning of Telstra as an opponent. Also, and to your discredit you call for confiscation of Telstra equipment and customers.

    But to the credit of Australians the Australian people are awake to your tricks and will never allow, by deception, an Australian icon to be hounded and destroyed by others for greedy self gain. Competion is good and I am sure Telstra welcomes the NBN builder whoever it is but Telstra must be free to compete for the benefit of all Australians.

    As always, I do wish you well and look forward to your your reflective and challenging discourse in the near future.

    Australia is deciding... joe -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126322)

    Why else would the ACCC be allowed to do what it does to telstra... it must have some form of political backing / support of the majority to do this, everything 'super mean' that happens to telstra, majority of australia allows it to happen, quite happily, not really caring in the slightest about the 'tru blue (cough cough) aussie company' I personally happily give out the TIO's phone number to anyone who is having major issues with telstra, cause i know there not going to get anywhere trying to take it up with telstra....

    Sydney, there is quite a large number of disgruntled unhappy customers of telstra out there, perhaps telstra isnt as super dooper as you make out... or perhaps the customers just arent patriotic enough? ;p

    Easy target or not? Tony -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126336)

    Joe, you have a point but seem to be against Telstra? You'll give out the TIO's number to anyone having a problem with Telstra. Why not hand it to anyone who is having problems with any company. You display the easy target theory, which perhaps others, even the ACCC display - but I don't know, just giving food for thought.

    To give you a comparison, I work for an organisation with a turnover of around $120m per year and 2000 employees, *not in IT or Comms at all*, so I take no sides. However I can assure you that our safety procedures and documentation is gone over with a fine tooth comb, by WorkCover, while smaller companies who do not have the capacity to pay fines and justify WorkCovers existent get off.

    We need traffic control and traffic/pedestrian control plans, dial before you dig, site management plans, risk assessments/matrix', safe operating procedures etc. Without them we are unable to start work. Also these docs cost maybe $m's per year to compile and update and if the i's aren't dotted and the t's crossed we are fined.

    Being personally involved in these documents preperation, I can assure you that I have actually seen smaller companies, who have none of the above docs, who have been caught working without signage, no traffic control and in total breach, let off with a warning.

    Now I do not know if this is the case with Telstra at all. But again from personal experience I can assure you this sort of thing does occur to those with the capacity to pay, so as to justify other bureaucratic, highly paid, pen pushers existence.

    Agreed joe -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126338)

    Telstra is an easy target, but it sticks its neck on the chopping block by posturing itself as the mean bully who owns the block, everyone loves to see the bully get kicked around... and to be honest, I've had issues with westnet and optus, Westnet phone support, excellent, top notch, they resolved the problems within 24 hrs... Optus, despite not understanding their damn accents and their rigid adherence to protocol (yes i own the account, why do i have to verify myself for the 20th time) resolved the problem in roughly 72 hrs... Telstra,

    (and excuse the long story, i just want to include a perfect example of my extreme hate of telstra)
    Telstra is the epitome of corporate nastiness... I took a customer complaint when i was working there, hadnt had a functional phone service for 7 weeks, been through the complaints process 3 times, she'd already spoken to my managers managers manager, she'd spoken to infrastrucutre co-ordinator for her area, still, nothing

    "nagh, thats not right, surely telstra would rather replace the cable than perform a temp fix every 4 days..." so i phoned up, after 5 hrs of searching (i stayed back after my shift and everything) i got the man who points the trucks where to dig and decides what gets done where, ahaha! the system works i thought, all it takes is dedicated staff, I explained the situation to him, that the line would fail ~ 6 - hrs after been fixed, and then she has to wait another 3 days to get another tech out there, an interim phone doesnt even work (handset that runs over mobile towers as a replacement) because the tech closes the case each time, hence the computer auto disables the interim, and sends another tech out there to collect it,
    His response, "ahh yes thats Ms blah blah, i know of her, look unfortunately we dont want to allocate the funds to fix that line at the moment," ... hold on wait, sorry mate did you say dont 'want' to.. "yeah well with a budget review coming up soon my manager gets allocated bonuses according to how much he stays within it, dont worry though we'll probably get round to it after the review" .. oh yeah how long does that take.. "oh its due sometime this month, or early next" (i was talking to him on the 3rd day of the month...)... your kidding me mate, shes not going to have a phone until sometime next month "yeah sorry mate, thats how it goes" .. what, but thats not good enough, she cant even change provider, its the line at fault here... "look mate, as i said, theres nothing we can do" ... you cant even talk to your manager, you know as an exception "okay, look what department are you from" .. res faults... "what the hell are you doing even talking to me, my god who even gave you my number exactly,, look, what your going to do is go back to her, and tell her she's going to have to wait, theres nothing she can do, as you said, shes not going anywhere, so long as she keeps paying her bill the world will keep spinning and all will end up happy, now get the hell off the phone and go push the crap telstra paying you to push'... and then he hangs up...

    There, thats telstras resolution, that is the maximum resolution that this customer was going to achieve through any avenue telstra is offering, hence i reffered her to the TIO, and mentioned it might be worth calling ACCC about the fact she still has to pay her bill...

    (lol again, my apologies for the length, but its a good example and i didnt want to leave anything out)

    so to some up, in my opinion Telstra deserves everything bad that goes its way, the hatred towards customers is so pervasive and ingrained in that company that i seriously doubt it will ever become right, the staff as individuals are great, wonderful people, but if all of telstras buildings were to simentanoulsy catch fire and burn down, i would be all the much happier to see telstra disappear...

    Watch for false charlatans. Sydney Lawrence -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126339)

    Joe why go on with such a diatribe when all was revealed when you said you had worked for Telstra.

    Obviously you departed unhappy and have an axe to grind. I think you protestest to much or maybe you are the little boy calling "wolf".

    Yeah your right joe -- 21/03/09 (in reply to #320126341)

    Caught me out once again sydney, was it the fact that i was saying something bad about telstra that gave it away?? Lol, I left that in there as the give away i was making it all up, theres no way telstra could ever do something bad, there australian ey, the land where corporations backsides shine...

    And yeah i have a slight axe to grind i spose... although i quit my entire department was off-shored roughly 2 weeks after that... although im sure telstra did it for the quality of service, i can vision it now, the mumbai call centre staff have such a deep understanding of australian payphones and conditions, defintely quality motivating that decision... Telstra's assertion that it's tru blue is a furphy at best sydney, frankly its offensive telstra blowing that trumpet when the decision to off-shore an entire department to india takes less than 2 weeks to roll through management

    Why did it take so long? Steve -- 23/03/09

    David Quilty,

    If Telstra is doing the right thing by other Telco companies why then, when netspace is a wholesale customer did it take 2 months for Telstra to redirect my phone line through the dslam equipment at the exchange so I could have my adsl2 connection. It was supposed to take only 5-10 working days to complete.

    I work for Telstra and am dropping my pathetic $49.95 400mb cable plan for netspaces 5g $39.95 adsl2+ plan even with the employee discount (which I will not reveal) the cable service was still overpriced.

    So come clean David Quilty and stop the Telstra spin which no one believes any more.

    By the way expect service levels to drop further as Telstra makes at least 10-15% of its workforce redundant before the end of this financial year to combat the introduction of the new IR laws that come into affect on July 1st.

    White-anting, backstabbing troublemakers not wanted. Sydney Lawrence -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126410)

    Steve with friends like you we don't need enemies.

    Why would Telstra have to do the right thing by other Telcoo companies? They are competitors and to keep prices low for the Australian consumer Telstra is duty bound to compete, not assist weaker opponents.

    Naturally, Telstra will abide and comply with all requirements of the regulation as would be expected of Australia's leading and fovourite company. If it is a fact that you are employed by Telstra you are a trouble making traitor and should be sacked forthwith.

    Who are you? Steve -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126413)

    It is the law Telstra should comply, why am I a trouble maker? why should I be sacked? Just because I choose to get more for less.

    Hook Line and sinker I think is t e comment needed here. Get a life!!!!!

    Do you work for Telstra? Are you a share holder? Are you happy with the payout to Sol? Are you happy with the current share price? Are you happy with the current management ?

    Why should I not be able to choose any isp I want regardless of I am an employee or not?

    Yes I am an employee and have been for over 10 years and the changes I have seen over that time have not been good. I still support Telstra and enjoy my work and no I don't agree with the regulations that have been put on Telstra, but it wouldnt hurt the reputation to comply with the current laws and regulation as they stand.

    If they want to compete why dont they offer the same or better plan than netspace?

    Need I go on!!!!!

    Lets see if you take the bait and I will have to reel you in -- sucka.

    Watch your back. Sydney Lawrence -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126414)

    Steve, having spent extensive time in the front line serving my country I know and appreciate the value of having people beside me who are reliable and trustworthy., Nuff said.

    Nuff Said Steve -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126417)

    Couldnt find answers to my questions? So you come up with the above comment.

    Nuff said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Front line? Anonymous -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126417)

    I hope you're not trying to say you were a grunt and that means anything special? 90% of all grunts still alive never saw action, other than something scary in Thailand. I hate the line that armed forces are anything special, you need trust and teamspirit whether you're a boundary rider, miner, firey, cop etc.

    Were you a social worker or a cop?

    Bulk Brasso needed. Sydney Lawrence -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126428)

    Take your point Anonymous, just say that come Anzac day it's a big job to clean my gongs.

    Steve I understand that you may have a disagreement with your employer, Telstra, but surely the best action would be to work through internal avenues.

    Why wash your dirty linen in public unless you wish to cause Telstra harm?

    no probs anon -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126434)

    just stating things that are common knowledge and i have no probs whth my employer just trying to get better value for my money

    Re: White-anting, backstabbing troublemakers not wanted. James Henstridge -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126413)

    Telstra's retail division has every right to treat other ISPs as competitors. No one is disputing this.

    However, due to Telstra's monopoly position in the wholesale market, they do need to be regulated to prevent them destroying the retail market.

    Telstra's wholesale should be treating other ISPs as customers, the same as it treats its own retail division. They should be charging all parties an amount necessary to maintain and upgrade the network infrastructure. Anything less should be chased up by the ACCC like it is here.

    While Telstra is an Australian company, so are many of their competitors (iiNet, Internode, etc). There is no patriotism based reason to prefer Telstra over these competitors.

    Based on my own past experience with Telstra, Steve's comments sound believable. There are some good people working at the company, but there is also some in-grained institutional problems that need fixing.

    Competition, not self annihilation. Sydney Lawrence -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126442)

    James your reply is tempered and contains some logic but the proplem is that when Telstra supplies facilities to opponents the opponents then use those facilities to pilfer Telstra customers.

    competition? Anonymous -- 23/03/09 (in reply to #320126463)

    until snother telco builds a competing netork with the same footprint as telstra this is what goes for competition in this country.

    Seperate telstra and have the retail arm compete for line space then you would have true competition. But can you see that happening -- no.

    So if it does not happen then we have to put up with the regulated ull market as it stands.

    Re: Competition, not self annihilation. James Henstridge -- 24/03/09 (in reply to #320126463)

    When ISPs buy local loop service from Telstra wholesale to connect with a customer, Telstra wholesale is getting a cut from that customer's ISP charges.

    That person may not be a Telstra retail customer, but they are indirectly a customer of Telstra wholesale. If Telstra retail wants that customer, they'll need to provide a competitive service without relying on special treatment from the wholesale arm.

    You portray this as being unfair, but that is the price they pay for holding the wholesale monopoly. Australia would be worse off if Telstra was able to leaverage the wholesale monopoly to create a retail monopoly.

    If Telstra isn't capable of maintaining the required separation, then it probably should be split. The network has value, so the wholesale division won't be annihilated. If the retail arm can't stand on its own, then perhaps it doesn't deserve to survive.

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