Telstra's Basslink response: It's all lies

Renai LeMay, ZDNet.com.au

11 November 2008 12:47 PM

Tags: aurora, basslink, iinet, internode, netspace, tasmania, telstra, yesterday

Telstra has used YouTube to post a vehement video denial that its backbone prices have caused problems for internet service providers wanting to operate in Tasmania.

Major ISPs such as Internode and Netspace yesterday re-committed to providing high-speed broadband services in the state after a long-awaited agreement was signed yesterday to light up the Basslink fibre-optic cable and provide competition to Telstra's transmission between Tasmania and the mainland.

But in this video, senior Telstra executives say there was never a problem in the first place.

Do you live in Tasmania? Let us know your thoughts on the state of broadband by posting your comments below this article.

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New Cable - No DifferenceAaron Clauson -- 11/11/08

I live in Hobart and have a Telstra Bigpond ADSL connection, $99.95/month for a 25GB cap.
I'm no fan of Telstra's and don't pay them anymore than I have to.

When David Bartlett announced the new cable deal he stated that there would be immediate reductions from Telstra in response, there haven't been. The thing I find illogical about that claim is that Telstra's broadband prices are the same Australia wide so if there is no Telstra price difference for Tasmanians at the moment why would that change?

For

"True Competition"Anonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116049)

I am with Telstra on this one (& no I am not a shareholder). It is well known that the operators were "milking" big dollars of the "Tassie" government while the cable layed dormant & unused & at the same time running of to the ACCC complaing about bid bad Telstra & the so called "monopoly" they had.

If Tasslink or whatever thay call themselves truly wanted to compete & in the interest of Tasmanians thay should have activated this cable years ago instead of playing their little games. In the interest of "True Competition" all of us now in Tassie could enjoy lower prices with costs coming down!!

Re: "True Competition"Charles Gregory -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116051)

It is true that the Government was paying $2m a year to CitySpring for the cable. But at full capacity, at the rates Telstra were charging, they had the potential to make $150M a year from their cable system. No doubt the cables aren't anywhere near maximum capacity, but at those prices who is surprised!

The Tas Government's incompetence is not cancelled out by Telstra's greed. Both have caused pain to Tasmanian consumers over the years - but at least now the Tas Govt is doing something about it.

@rened kelly -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116074)

potential to make $150M a year by *gouging ****head tasmanians* like you, do you mean charles

re: gouging tasmaniansCharles Gregory -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116090)

Actually Mr Kelly, it is from gouging victorians (like netspace), south australians (like Internode), western australians (like iiNet), new south welsh (like Soul), and new zealanders (like AAPT). Tasmanians suffer from lack of high speed choices, but the actual financial burden falls back to the ISP.

Re: New Cable - No DifferenceAnonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116049)

What he would've been referring to is Telstra Wholesale reducing the cost to competitive telecommunications providers of transmission between Tasmania and Victoria because there is now solid competition on the way. Telstra retail customers will see no benefit, but they will have the choice to obtain better-value cost effective services from other telecommunications companies (eg. iiNet, Internode, Netspace) who have up to now been neglecting the Tasmanian market because of its widely-reported negative profitability.

@re new cablened kelly -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116052)

so why didn't ii, internode and netspace unite to make the g3 and build their own. after all charles tells us they would make $150M per year.

because it would have meant investing money and we wouldn't want them to do that now, would we, rofl.

re: new cableCharles Gregory -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116092)

Because there is an existing cable there - the Basslink cable. No doubt that if that wasn't there, Optus, along with the ones you mentioned above, would have probably done such a thing - but with an unused cable sitting there, they are hardly going to do that.

And no, they couldn't make $150m per year, that is the kind of profit that only a greedy monopoly could return.

By the way, I was wrong with that - its closer to $256m a year. Telstra charges $2m/yr for a 155Mbps link. Each fibre can run at 10Gbps which can carry approx 64 155Mbps channels. $2mx64x2 = $256m.

Of course I have stated that is a theoretical maximum which would only be reached IF they ran at max capacity and IF Telstra didn't use any for themselves, and IF they didn't use any redundancy - not a practical limit by any means, but to be able to make enough money to pay for the installation cost of the cables every 10 weeks shows something is wrong!

@new cablened kelly -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116106)

i thought there were 2 cables. one being utilised and one lying dormant, gouging $2m per year?

but wow, funny the lengths some will go to to show one side to be the *baddies* and the other to be the *do no wrong* angels, isn't it. i see someone working overtime on the old calculator there charles.

but i'm sure you have no agenda or personal financial involvement . so thanks for the *unbiased* info, most interesting angle.

once again, although demonstrating a little sarcasm and apprehension towards you, we should all heed everyones input.

re: @new cableCharles Gregory -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116126)

There are three - two Telstra cables, and one Basslink cable.

I'm not saying that The Tas Goverment hasn't been completely pathetic in it's management of the commercialisation of the cable. But this particular article is about Telstra's response. Both groups are to blame, but Telstra had the ability to "fix" things at anytime; the Tas Govt wasn't competent enough (until now).

Remember, if Telstra charged reasonable rates on using their cables, we wouldn't even be thinking of a third cable.

Ah reasonable ratesned -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116128)

i stand corrected 3 cables, cheers. this is really making the old monopoly theory look thin.

but c'mon charles, don't try and tell me that if you were the only person in town in your line of business, that you' wouldn't use the old supply and demand and be a bit dearer too, be honest now?

without sticking up for any of the grubs, you do realise that if internode, iinet or the rest were in the same boat they'd do it too, don't you?

Re: @re new cableAnonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116092)

1) unnecessary duplication of infrastructure
There is a limit to appropriate investment in cable systems, as was discovered in the dot-com boom/crash. Telstra and Basslink already collectively have three cable systems servicing Tasmania. Unfortunately, at present, they are not effectively serving customers - the former overcharges, the latter twiddles fingers.

2) not part of their core business
iiNet, Internode and Netspace do not invest in cable systems - they are focussed on providing retail services to consumers by predominantly utilising existing infrastructure. Companies with fibre as part of their core business are more suited - eg. Telstra, SingTel, PIPE Networks.

3) unable to fund such a project
Given that the retail-level telecommunications sector is such a competitive environment, profit margins are fairly slim - and given that Telstra will undercut any transmission competition when it arrives - there is no business case for these ISPs to invest in such infrastructure and as such it would be extremely difficult for them to obtain funding.

Agree butAnonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116108)

With point 3 if Telstra constantly undercuts competition when they enter an area they will certainly be hit with ACCC predatory related fines. I look forward to true competition allowing the transmission to no longer be "a declared service" meaning that true market forces will prevail and that the likes of iiNet & Internode will be proven to be simple whinging publicity seekers when wholesale backhaul prices do not plummet. Given there will be a reduction simply because of competition but as Telstra is the only one with any form of redundancy most decent companies will still subscribe and pass on costs for the Telstra backhaul. Then again they could do an "Optus" and not have a decent contingency plan meaning they leave tens of thousands of people susceptible to days without internet access is the cable is damaged in the middle of the straight.

@@new cablened kelly -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116108)

1 duplication.

can be viewed in 2 ways, commonsense says duplication is a waste or duplication is competition.

hmmm 2. ii net and internode *do not invest in cable systems*!

interesting, they obvioulsy then, as many have suggested, aren't serious about terria and an nbn build and are only pretenders.

#3 unable to fund such a project.

investment is an integral part of all businesses. surely if you can't afford to be in business you shouldn't be in business? you can't expect to forever suckle from the teat of others. i'd love a successful business (who wouldn't), but realistically i can't afford the upfront investment required. but going by your telecoms logic, i should simply open the business and have an already established business, cover for me.

but unfortunately reality seems to get in the way of what i want . but not in the pretend reality known as telecoms.

No difference for Telstra retailSean -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116049)

There will be no difference for Telstra retail customers. However the other ISPs will be able to offer better deals, and even offer larger data caps as these hopefully will now move into the realm of profitability at a reasonable price to consumers
For example, Iinet could now make a profit off of Tassie customers using the same pricing as it offers all it's aussie customers. Unlike previopusly with the gouging Telstra backhaul prices.

@no differencened kelly -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116055)

thanks sean, im sure theres a nice tttt bonus awaiting you.

u guys should know by now i don't take sides. whilst i'm here having a go at those who ridicule telstra today, i was having an argument with sols brother sydney yesterday, lmao.

so if youre a telstra ***khead or a terria ***khead, i will make fun of you accordingly, if you deserve it, that's why i'm ned kelly.

sorry sean i don't mean to pick on you singularly, but really, r u guys serious? r u so anti telstra that you refuse to use any commonsense at all?

basslink/temasek/ OPTUS have had a cable lying unused, getting $2m per year and you guys still blame telstra?

time to stop the bias and start weighing up the situation on it's merits, without all the obvious anti/pro telstra ***kheadedness, ***king up your logic. ROFL

Re: @no differenceAnonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116073)

I don't know what common sense we're missing?

Sure, the way that the Tasmanian Government and CitySpring have handled this mess is - quite frankly, appaling - we can all agree on that one.

However, it is clear and simple fact that when Telstra have a monopoly on infrastructure - in this case, the only lit fibre connecting Tasmania with Victoria - that they charge monopoly rates, which results in competitive providers being unable to reach or maintain profitability.

When Basslink comes online, Telstra is going to drop wholesale prices to retain customers - industry high-ups have stated that historically this is the case when competition arrives. For many, this prompts the question "well, if they can still make profits on it in a competitive environment, why didn't they drop them before?". Quite simply, it's like taking candy from a baby. There is nothing stopping them from charging top dollar on it until competition enters the game.

Looking at it from a solely $$$-oriented business perspective, where Telstra are out to make a buck for their shareholders, I can't fault their approach. But from a pro-competition, consumer perspective, what they are doing seems wrong, and is quite worth the time to whinge about.

@@no differencened kelly -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116110)

*telstra have a monopoly on infrastruture - in this case* you say.

enter commonsense. the reason they have your so called monoploy is because their competitor, who has competing infrastructure, *isn't using it*.

once again, i don't give 2 hoots about telstra, optus, terria, or whoever, these are all money hungry companies, who are no different to each other (which is why i giggle when i come here, with all this intelligent, i love/hate telstra adult attitudes, priceless) but monopoly seems like an odd accustaion under these circumstances, surely.

Re: @@no differenceAnonymous -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116131)

But we've already been over this - CitySpring might have the infrastructure in place, but it is as good as not there.

Therefore, Telstra have a monopoly on services - owning the only two lit cable systems servicing the state.

I personally don't have love/hate relationships with any telecommunications providers. I couldn't care less about any of them or their shareholders - I'm viewing the situation through the eyes of a working-class consumer who has to live with a telecommunications infrastructure monopoly resulting in expensive and poor value services - I'm not in Tasmania, I'm in a NSW regional centre and currently am somewhat better off than Tasmanian consumers - however the core problem is still the same.

@@@no differencened kelly -- 13/11/08 (in reply to #320116155)

yes we have been over this.

it may as well not be there you say, *but it is there*.

cityspring and the tas governement aren't utilising the cable, because cityspring were getting $2million per year for nothing from the government. so what does this *exact issue* have to do with telstra or anyone else? how can any rational person possibly blame anyone else for the situation, between cityspring and the tas government? it has nothing to do with telstra, they are getting on with business.

as a consequential side issue, telstra are apparently charging more, as would any other business. not fair, but that's business and optus, ii, and the rest would do the same given the same circumstances.

but just to agree, let's call it a monopoly if you wish, but its a claytons monopoly at best.

no good blaming telstra for something which isn't thier fault. there's plenty of other things which are their fault to pick on, no need to invent other stuff.

what about a conspiracy theory. telstra were/are also paying citspring $m's not to commission the cable.

you guys are slipping, would have thought one of you would have started that rumour by now.
you disappoint.

Telstra in TasAnonymous -- 11/11/08

Telstra not only charge like a wounded bull, they also cherry pick the easy customers to service. I'm 1km from fibre optics and Telstra refused to supply me with ADSL. I'm 15kms from the centre of the state capital and on 2 way Sat for want of a better option.
Bring on Internode ASAP.

LOFLDan Kelly -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116054)

You won't do any better with Internode for ADSL, you should simply cancel the 2 way sat and get a wireless broadband. I am sure Virgin, Vodaphone or Optus will have plenty of service there for you ... NOT.

your a moronAnonymous -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116054)

Telstra Cherrypick? Without the TELSTRA CABLE you wouldnt have been getting JACK for the last X amount of years anyhow. go check your facts, they would have refused you service because it wouldnt work via your line or technology, and realistically, absolutely noone else has even bothered to TRY and give you a service, so grow up.

Kettle this is pot, overAnonymous -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116153)

Who exactly do you think owns, operates and maintains the very cables that are in such poor condition that they prevent the service from being delivered you genius?

Don't live more than 10km outside Hobart or LauncestonAnonymous -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116054)

Here 18km from the Melbourne CBD I have reliable broadband. But the same distance from Hobart CBD and its back to 1990s dialup speeds. That wireless broadband is great except for Tassie's lovely hilly landscape complete with radio null spots and no line of sight to satellites. I still remember in the 1980s in southern Tasmania we had to use a radio telephone because Telecom refused to lay a cable. Even a friend of mine in suburban Hobart couldn't get broadband because his phone line was on a shared-party line (in the 21st century). Bottom line is while the extra backhaul is great, outside Hobart Tasmania's telecomms are still woefully antiquated.

ahhuhAnonymous -- 11/11/08

biggest load of BS ive heard all day....

Typical Telstra hypocricyAnonymous -- 11/11/08

Why didn't they interview people other than Telstra employees for a fair and balanced view? We saw Telstra renege on a chance to speak in an open public forum this week because they claim it was unbalanced, and biased, and then they produce rubbish like this to "prove" a point.
Typical Telstra double standards!

TelstraFull name -- 11/11/08

Spin Spin and more spin. The arrogance is astounding. www.nowerebullshitting.com more like it.

I agree, more spin from telstraAnonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116058)

Telstra like compition?? yer bloody right, they are fighing it constantly.

Telstra constantly refuses other ISP access to install equiptment into excahnges by claiming they are full!.

Telstra needs to be split WHOLESALE and RETAIL. then lets see how much compitions there is in the market!

I take itAnonymous -- 11/11/08

that telstra now wont , under any circumstances, revise their bacK haul pricing downwards?

Telstra don't get it...Charles Gregory -- 11/11/08

No-one has ever mentioned Bigpond retail prices in relation to the Basslink cable. The changes will come in WHOLESALE costs to other ISPs, not retail costs.
For some reason, Noel Hunt and Grant Wiltshire get a bit confused, and don't really understand what is happening.. either that or they intentionally attempt to deceive Tasmanians by changing the topic.
I don't think that you are going to see any change in the wholesale backhaul rates from Telstra until the Basslink cable is up and going, at which point they will drop their prices by 60, 70, 80%... which, for some reason they couldn't do this BEFORE there was competition?
Of course Telstra are allowed to charge what they like to use their fibre optic cables, but for Hunt and Wiltshire to lie through their teeth by saying that Telstra does good things for Tasmania? What a joke.

Pathetic...Anonymous -- 11/11/08

This is honestly the biggest piece of bs I've heard this week.

Myth #1 - Then how come your links are congested and you're refusing to lay more fibre optic cables?
Myth #2 - Then how come it costs 3x more to send a packet from Tasmania to Victoria than it does to send a packet from New South Wales to USA. By the way I'm quoting YOUR PRICES.
Myth #3 - A small ISP doesn't have billions to build their own infrastructure
Myth #4 - Then how come Tasmanian Residents have been complaining for years about packet loss?
Myth #5 - They meant from an ISP which doesn't try to scam its customers
Myth #6 - MYTH BUSTED! And I agree. :) Telstra is a rip off no matter where you live in Australia.

Telstra's debunking debunkedAnonymous -- 11/11/08

Myth 1- Telstra doesn't care about Tasmania.
They do care about Tasmanian's money. Agreed.

Myth 2: It costs too much for ISP's to use Telstra's fibre optic cables.
I assume that all ISP's are staying with Telstra once Basslink is operationalised because Telstra charges fairly and competitively for their services. NOT AT ALL- most signing up for Basslink because Telstra IS charging exorbitant prices.

Myth 3: Competitors are forced to accept Telstra's prices.
No other competitor can afford to build its own link as none have the resources Telstra does... so it goes without saying they are forced to use Telstra's link at Telstra's pricing. Alternatively they can choose to not compete in Tasmania which some companies have chosen to do.

Myth 4: There is a lack of capacity across Bass straight.
There is not a lack of capacity across Bass Straight as the video points out. However, competitors of Telstra, in order to reduce exorbitant costs, are forced to buy smaller bandwidth pipes than they need in order to not run their business at a loss. It makes commercial sense to get customers even at zero profit, so that once Basslink is operationalised and an affordable alternative to Telstra comes, these businesses can begin to make a profit with an existing customer base.

Myth 5: Tasmanians can't access high speed broadband services.
Sure they can with wireless 3G. Most of Australia can. That is NOT a myth. The FACT is that Tasmanians cannot access AFFORDABLE high speed broadband services.

Essentially Telstra is saying:
â��Stop complaining Tasmanians that you can't connect to Internode's Extreme ADSL2 $59.95 plan with 25Gbytes download and up to 24Mbs connection speed. Your friendly Telstra have provided you with a plan at the exact same price; a "Super G Fast" plan with 1Gbytes download and typical speeds of 550kbs-3.0Mbs. Even though you get far slower speeds, and downloads, you have the benefit of portability which is something all you families want.â�� Nooooooooot.

Myth 6: Telstra charges more for Bigpond services in Tasmania
No one says that. That is a myth Telstra created. People do, however, say that Telstra charges COMPETITORS more for services in Tasmania to the point where some cannot find it viable to offer the plans and services in Tasmania which they offer to the rest of the country. Why? Exorbitant pricing and lack of competition across Bass Straight.

you are all mythned kelly -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116076)

is that you simon (hackett) or is that michael (egan, simmons, malone) take your pick.

again i don't take sides, but your onesided absolute drivelling ***t is disgraceful.

you obviously are one of the above gents or work for them, lmao.

Yeah right..Anonymous -- 01/12/08 (in reply to #320116089)

Ned, really, he is not dribbling ***t as you put it. It is fact mate. Do your homework before you bag ppl out. And honestly, who cares if it is Simon Hackett, Michael Malone etc. They are the ones that deal with Telstra on a daily basis, so they should know..

3G - the Optus, vodafone, 3 fraudband swindleAnonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116076)

Yeah okay, why dont any of the other wireless providers get the wireless network up to scratch before they begin to sell it?

Vodafone 3G is abysmal, constant drop outs, speeds slower than dialup. Optus and 3, not much better.

Telstra are too expensive!Anonymous -- 11/11/08

I can't speak for or against most of the accusations in this thread. But I can say this. for someone like myself looking for good bandwidth (ADSL 2+) with decent download (30 - 40 Gig) and possibly naked DSL then I just can't afford Telstra Bigpond. their prices are so far away from the competition that I'm amazed they are still in the business of selling retail.

Companies like IINet and Internode etc are much more competitive than Telstra and yet Telstra are still around. This surely indicates that Telstra have a sound marketing plan, but I honestly don't know how they do it, except to openly rip off mums and dads out there who don't know better.

I look forward to Internode, IINet, Netspace etc really investing in Tassie infastructure. This means lots and lots of those ADSL 2+ DSLAMs everywhere.

Leave Telstra alone for the mums and dads. Let the serious competition in for those of us who are serious about our internet.

Regards,

John.A

WHINERS STILL WHININGAnonymous -- 11/11/08

You will not find much investing by the leech ISP's in Tasmania, they are worried about what happens when Telstra get the NBN

Aurora / BasslinkAnonymous -- 11/11/08

The real test is whether Aurora continue the trend and screw this up too.

As for Telstra - what else did you expect by way of a response. They tell half the story and expect it to be swallowed as the truth. Telstra must really take the Australian public for fools.

Other ISP investment?Anonymous -- 11/11/08

LOve or hate Telstra, at least they were investing in broadband for Tas. The questions need to be asked of the other ISPs who have contributed nothing. If they had, then the Tas Govt wouldn't have had to pursue its own cable.

The great 3G swindle.Anonymous -- 11/11/08 (in reply to #320116100)

Sick of competitors whinging. Okay Telstra's NextG is expensive, but tis because they invested in building it, while Optus/Voda/3 are trying to swindle consumers in phoney wireless services that constantly drop out and run at dialup speeds.

Its easy to point the figure, but there is a great deal of hypocrisy going on here.

Just wasted 3.24 mins of my lifeAnonymous -- 11/11/08

And what is worse, I now want to punch every person appearing on that vid.
Talk about spin. Nothing but half truths, and superficial incomplete information.
Don't you get it Telstra? People are more aware, better informed, and more cynical than you obviously believe. Or you wouldn't have produced a vid expounding logic that only a 10 yr old would accept.

Excuse me, I have to throw up.

the same alwaysAnonymous -- 11/11/08

Nothing but krappola from telstras pr machine, i did have 8mb connection with them, but then saw the light, same connection more d/load limit and 3o$ a month cheaper, so stick that up tour telstra thingymajig

black Beard is back to help australian broadbnad woesBlack Beard -- 11/11/08

hoist the jolly roger! We'll shanghai some of the finest rum and deliver it to these tasmanians in need! yarrr! Black Beard be here with what seems the only solution to this poor state of affairs!

Go Ned!Sydney Lawrence -- 12/11/08

The self promoting anti Telstra fabricators are on the back foot. Australians are awaking to their cunning ploy to disparage Telstra for their own financial gain.

One area of enlightenment is the arrival of Ned Kelly who is so obviously a straight shooter with favour to none and truth for all. I hope that others, as myself, will seriously consider his views.

Fabricators?Anonymous -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116129)

That's hilarious Sydney, coming from you. You know someone is desperate when they claim Ned Kelly's posts makes sense.

thanks for now mr lned kelly -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116129)

thanks mr lawrence, i have been having a bit of a go at terria lately, but also telstra before that and i'm sure telstra will be due again soon.

so i hope unlike the below ***khead *fabricator*, who obviously is worried about his employment or shares with telstras competitors and refuses to accept that someone like me can actually comment without his level of stupid childish biasness, when it is telstras turn again, i hope you keep the same open mind then.

sorry mikened -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116145)

oops the *above* ***khead - sorry mike.

but if there's 3 cables already mike, why not just build another easy. but that would be an outlay wouldn't it!

the above ***headAnonymous -- 12/11/08 (in reply to #320116146)

either way (above or below) that would be you ned.

roflned -- 15/11/08 (in reply to #320116161)

thank you. coming from you thats a compliment, because you aren't intelligent enough to ever even reach ***khead status.

Wrong Sydney - Again...Mel Sommersberg -- 14/11/08 (in reply to #320116129)

"The self promoting anti Telstra fabricators are on the back foot. Australians are awaking to their cunning ploy to disparage Telstra for their own financial gain."

Not so Sydney, Australians are waking to Telstra's deceitful existance and that is why Telstra had to make that stupid video - because the masses have revolted in reply to Telstra's bastardry

"One area of enlightenment is the arrival of Ned Kelly who is so obviously a straight shooter with favour to none and truth for all. I hope that others, as myself, will seriously consider his views."

You don't have to tell the truth or comprehend the situation to be a 'straight shooter'. Sydney, it is painfully obvious that Ned Kelly supports Telstra's price gouging habits just the same as you do.

wrong as usual melned kelly -- 15/11/08 (in reply to #320116315)

as usual mel you are wrong!

i do not support telstra at all and do not support their competitors. nor do i have political allegiances. whoever is best at the time.

seems you are just upset because i had a go at you previously, about your liberal loving/anti telstra comments. once again telstra (you hate) are an arm of the liberal party (you love). rofl

mr. lawrence currently likes me because terria have shown them selves to be amateurish at best. and my comment *currently* reflect this. but the tide will turn and i will again (as i have done before) go telstra too. then you can be my friend mel, how lovely.

now i'll say it again, since some cant comprehend even simple stuff. i do not support telstra.

would you like me to say it again or say it s-l-o-w-e-r for you mel(vin)!

I am right - I am always rightMel Sommersberg -- 19/11/08 (in reply to #320116374)

You on the other hand, Ned, are wrong. Firstly, my name isn't Melvin - good guess though.

"mr. lawrence currently likes me because terria have shown them selves to be amateurish at best"

I am glad that you think that Mr Lawrence likes you because of that. That piece of trivia has made my day. That doesn't alter the fact that Mr Lawrence finds favour with you simply because you've been blinded by Telstra's folly. Their video is a pack of lies.

Lastly, I am not upset at you or anyone else. I don't take comments on forums personally. if I did I'd be a nervous wreck due to the amount of petty insults hurled by the pro-Telstra camp. It's a bit much when people have to resort to name-calling and character assassinations. This nonsense seldom comes from the anti-Telstra camp who seem to be (rightly) more concerned with Telstra's greed than personal attacks.

hear hear, well kind ofyo -- 19/11/08 (in reply to #320116569)

I disagree with you Mel on the point that Ned is wrong, he mearly said that who evers case is backed up by what ever his opinion may be that day likes him... well i agree, Ned has 'changed' sides about 6 times in this topic alone...

But i do agree with Anti-telstra seeming more interested in attacking telstras greed than the other camp, I've never been called a knuckle f***head by anti-telstra...

@i'm rightned kelly -- 22/11/08 (in reply to #320116585)

thanks yo.

glad you aren't overcome by bias and your own self confessed, self importance, like i'm always right mel (bourne).

yo, you can actually see that, unlike mel (ancholy) and his/her close associations with the liberal party and his/her equally close association with telstras competitors, that i really don't give a ***k about any of these grubby money grabbers in telecomms or politics.

i'm glad I made your day to mel (anie). but the fact that the video may or not be a pack of lies mel(edoen) means exactly what to me?

about time you come down from your pedestal, or just woke up. because while you believe you are on moral highgound and put **it on mr lawrence because of his telstra affliction, to me, you and he are like identical twins, but just on different sides, mel(vernator)

Again missing the pointMel Sommersberg -- 24/11/08 (in reply to #320116844)

Kelly, whilst you sit here engaging in pathetically childish name-calling I will remind you that the thread isn't about the moral fibre of any of the commenters but about Telstra's inability to be straight with anyone.

The only time I questioned Mr Lawrence about an affliction with Telstra is because some time ago - too long ago now for it to be relevant - he was asked by many if he had a financial interest in Telstra. He confirmed that he didn't and everyone got over it and moved on however it looks like you haven't - you therefore stand alone here as someone who waits on the scrolling comments page for somebody to oppose ANYTHING you have written in any thread and you return fire with pure drivel just for the sake of trying to make yourself famous. You stand almost alone in that regard too.

@againned kelly -- 04/12/08 (in reply to #320116932)

no need to get so excited mel. i see i have hit a nerve. rofl

seems when you are in the hip pocket of one side or the other, as you are, you cant accept anyone who isnt.

so please keep up the *unbiased* wisdom and continue the comedy act. we all need a good laugh from time to time and you are it.

Very rich Ned, very richMel Sommersberg -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320117974)

....Coming from someone who goes around calling people liars only to have the weight of the world thrust upon them when shown the proof in living colour.

Ned, you are such a prime example of an airhead that I am surprised that you are able to climb out of bed every morning. Then again, anyone who wanders around with a perpetual supply of saliva dribbling from their bottom lip and still able to turn the gentle art of bullshitting into an artform deserves some credit. Well done Ned.

Telstra Link Pricesmike -- 12/11/08

I work for a competitor to Telstra and we have had capacity issues between Tas and the mainland for years, user congestion etc.
We've priced up business cases on more than one occasion but they are never viable, with the cost of using the Telstra cable the killer.
Telstra are quite within their rights to make it uneconomic for the competition, but the real losers are the Tasmanian public who are left with the exorbitantly priced BigPond, at a service level of Telstra's choosing.

Maybe/Maybe notBelieveItWhenISeeIt -- 12/11/08

BS attempt to justify Telstra's profit margins. Ignoring the forum Trolls when it costs the same for a data packet from Sydney to the US as it does from Hobart to Melbourne there is an issue. The cost of the Pacific cable would have been a little higher than Bass strait requiring a higher return on investment.

ISP's all have their faults but the consumer should get enhanced competition at the wholesale level allowing more players into the market and investing in their own infrastructure, cable aside and if Telstra grants access to the exchanges. Albeit it is possible that Aurora will stuff it up or the Tas Govt will if their pricing on fibre to the home was any indication.

This Taswegan says Telstra is talking crapAnonymous -- 12/11/08

Yes Telstra has a monopoly but as they say the taste is in pudding. If the press releases are correct and wholesale prices drop 60 to 80% when (finally) the bass link going live, and if Telstra then drops the wholesale price by the a similar or substantial amount, would that be enough proof that Telstra is overcharging for their backhaul now?.

At the moment Hobart does not enjoy services such as NakedDSL. True thats not Telstras fault; its up to the ISP to rollout their infrastructure. However there is no incentive for ISPs to roll out their equipment at exchanges if it means getting the data back to Melbourne costs 8 times more than it cost to transmit from Melb to USA. Tasmania will benefit from extra competition.

And making comments that there are 100s of ISPs providing plenty of competition. I wonder what these ISPs would say to that, after all we Taswegans and ISPs have to pay the proverbial ferryman, to get our data to the otherside.

That is why is it very important that when the NBN tender is evaluated, the power that be must factor in competition, or regulation, to ensure price gouging never happens again.

what about the topic - the cablened kelly -- 13/11/08 (in reply to #320116180)

nice speech, but the topic was the cable, wasn't it?

so you dont have a problem with your government gifting $2m per year to cityspring for a cable they dont use? paying $2m to a company *not to help you*? that's ok?

i'm sure your kids school, your local hospital or roads could have done with that $2m, or more depending on how many payments will have been made between purchase in 2007 and commissioning in 2009. maybe it will be more like $4m or $6m?

i hate them all (telcos/isps) and will give it to each of them when they deserve it. cityspring owned by temasek who own optus, deserve a good kick in the bum for this, yet you let them get away with it?

but why waste any opportunity to blame telstra, even when its not their fault.

Tell The Truth Time.Sydney Lawrence -- 13/11/08 (in reply to #320116180)

Let the lies and deceipt be exposed and those liars and deceivers be shown for the self-serving devious individuals that they are.

Australians are awaking to the fact that the anonymous Posters who constantly denigrate Telstra are nebulous characters who try, by disingenuous untruths and subterfuge, to line their own pockets.

Their continuous talk of a Terria NBN build is a smoke screen to appeal to Government to regulate Telstra for their own financial gain. They will be naked and exposed when Terria has to admit that their NBN talk is a dream that they can never deliver.

Tell The Truth TelstraWake Up Syd, Your getting left behind -- 14/11/08 (in reply to #320116206)

jeez syd.. that almost sounds like a line we should all be very familiar with... and syd... telstra for all its ranting and raving how regulation is the big bad boogieman in this world... well Telecom NZ is pushing for more... but syd? telstra = regulation bad! telecom NZ = regulation good!..there the same people, oh well, it okay, telstra would never act in its own financial interest, just the interest of australia... maybe thats why its taking the "parasitic leech" (to quote Mr Burgess) approach in NZ..

Yarrr!BlackBeard -- 15/11/08 (in reply to #320116206)

Yarrr I say ye need a good bol o rum there syd.. but judging by ye love o telstra, blackbeard thinks ye hav found the liqour cabinet already.... YARRRR!

anon postersSimon -- 18/11/08 (in reply to #320116206)

Sydney, time to see the shrink I think, you have definitely crossed into lala land and reek of paranoia.

So anyone who posts contrary to Telstra's position are nebulous characters intent on lining their pockets? Sorry to disappoint your conspiracy theories but I just don't agree with what Telstra does or how it serves it's customers. My only expectation of gain is to perhaps, someday, be offered world class broadband at a reasonable price. No gouging, no excess charges, no bullshit.

Yeah, let's tell the truthMel Sommersberg -- 19/11/08 (in reply to #320116206)

It's a bit too much to ask of Telstra though.

"Let the lies and deceipt [sic] be exposed and those liars and deceivers be shown for the self-serving devious individuals that they are."

When Basslink finally lights up and Telstra drops thir prices we'll see who's been lying and it won't be Telstra's well-oiled competition.

@yeahned kelly -- 22/11/08 (in reply to #320116570)

ah we find out more.

seems mel(drum) has an oil can in hand and goes around oiling telstras competitors....

and polishing mal turbulls boots (or helmet) of course.

keep up the great work champion.

More immature drivelMel Sommersberg -- 24/11/08 (in reply to #320116845)

On one hand you have Telstra fanboys bleating and moaning about competitors freeloading at the hands of the Commonwealth Government and then when a competitor lays their own cable the Telstra fanboys come out with responses like Ned Kelly's which are positively juvenile - all lower case, spelling, tennybopper smartalec cracks, grammar that is sadly lacking and no apparent relevance to the discussion.

competition?????Anonymous -- 17/11/08

If telstra and the tas. government are, lets face it " the same" in regards to telstra being previously government owned. Wouldn't it be in telstras best interests to make the state government pay $2000,000 a year to keep a cable from being used. (basslink)

Wouldn't 2 cables at max capacity, rather than 3 cables, bring you a monopoly?

I wonder if the vid. above is like the pulp mill attempt in MIS-INFORMATION.

Just a thought.

@competitionAnonymous -- 17/11/08 (in reply to #320116446)

yes of course, that's how businesses operate! no business anywhere wants competition, if they have a foothold. be it telstra here, singtel in singapore or microsoft in the us.

i believe this comes under the banner of ***t happens!

@ BasslinkAnonymous -- 24/11/08 (in reply to #320116448)

To all you BOPTUS/Tierra fanboys...the Basslink "case" is a classic example of how they have sponged off the Taxpayer & Telstra!!

I cannot believe this video.Adam from near Devonport. -- 22/04/09

Telstra want to play Myth Busters. Ok...

Myth 1 - Telstra doesn't care about Tasmania.
If Telstra invested $50 million of "their own money" to install two fibre optic cables, as claimed in the video, why did the current owner of the Basslink fibre cable buy it for $1 Billion?
Something doesn't add up here.
I live in Tasmania, and I am one of many people that sit in the "wrong line in the sand" (a quote from a Telstra Countrywide employee) when it comes to getting ADSL Broadband at home. I've been complaining about it for 10 years and nothing has happened. I live only a few minutes from the centre of Devonport, the third largest city in the state.
I am Tasmanian, do I feel cared for by Telstra? No.
Myth CONFIRMED.

2. It costs too much for ISP's to use Telstra's fibre optic cables.
She says "depending on whose numbers you believe". They are currently the only fibre supplier - don't they know how many customers they have?
Do I really need to go and search for this? I know that ISP's absorb the cost of supplying Tasmania by charging the same price nationally. Netspace were unable to sell more 1500 ADSL services to Tasmania due to an unavailability of any more bandwidth.
They made it known that it cost many times as much to supply Tasmania as it did other states.
She says "they're finding a way of making their business work". Well, do they have a choice? Of course they don't. They have to pay what Telstra charge, or go without.
Myth CONFIRMED.

3. Competitors are forced to accept Telstra's wholesale prices.
She says competitors always have options, including investing in their own infrastructure.
Apart from investing in their own infrastructure, what other option do they have? Deal with Telstra, or go out of business. This video is so full of rot. She says if they get their pricing wrong people will build competing infrastructure. Read the literature, Basslink Fibre has been planned since the year 2000. Does that mean they have had their pricing so wrong since 2000? I suspect so.
Then she says "If we've invested a lot of money and time and energy in putting our own infrastructure in the ground, then of course we want to get a return for our shareholders"... Hang on, the first guy said "$50 million of OUR OWN MONEY". Their money, or shareholders money, which is it?
So $50 Million is "a lot" according to Telstra. They make a profit of Billions annually.
Myth CONFIRMED.

4. There is a lack of broadband capacity across Bass Strait.
Loads of capacity, they say. And neither are at full capacity. Why, then, were companies such as Netspace saying otherwise? What's the point of having that bandwidth if you are going to charge so much for it that customers are going to opt not to accept? See a CNET news article "Netspace cuts Tassie broadband plans" and I quote
"The effective price of that backhaul has essentially gone up four-fold," Dunscombe said. "And Tasmania was already significantly more expensive than anywhere else in the country."
Myth CONFIRMED.

5. Tasmanians can't access high speed broadband services.
A play on words here - there is a difference between "ADSL" and "high speed broadband services".
Again, have a look at the news article just referred to -
http://www.cnet.com.au/netspace-cuts-tassie-broadband-plans-339273235.htm
"We launched our 8Mbps plans on Tuesday. But we haven't made them available in Tasmania, and simultaneously we've stopped selling our 1.5Mbps services down there,"
And there's Noel Hunt saying Telstra has invested "very very heavily in Tasmania". Again, $50 million compared to the Billions of profit they make annually makes us Tasmanians feel duped a bit...
NextG Wireless network - what's that got to do with ADSL or Basslink? Nothing! Yeah, sell us a more expensive way to access the internet and say it's available, whatever.
Telstra has ADSL reaching over 93% of the population. Where does he get that figure? Is a few minutes out of Devonport that much in the minority?

Continued...Adam from near Devonport -- 22/04/09 (in reply to #320130950)

No room for the entire comment, here's the rest...

Telstra has ADSL reaching over 93% of the population. Where does he get that figure? Is a few minutes out of Devonport that much in the minority? I know many people that cannot get ADSL.
Then he has the cheek to say that 120,000 homes can get the ADSL2+ service. Go and have a look yourselves at how many exchanges are enabled for ADSL2+. Easy to say 120,000 in the Greater Hobart area perhaps? I don't know.
Myth CONFIRMED.

6. Telstra charges more for BigPond services in Tasmania.
That's the first time I have heard that said anywhere. Everyone knows they charge the same nationally. Wouldn't the ACCC tear strips off them if they tried to do that? This "myth" is nothing but propaganda and hype.

7. Telstra doesn't want broadband competition.
Well, why would they? Of course they don't. Neither does any other ISP, but they aren't going to publicly say it, are they? Why are they even saying this? They are getting desperate in this video.
Yeah, customers have plenty of choice, but apart from that lady saying they "welcome competition", I have never seen any evidence of it.
This doesn't even rate as a myth.

What about the future? The future is about "Telstra building the National Broadband network". I thought the Government was going to do that.

I am a Tasmanian and I have worked in the IT industry for over 25 years. These are my thoughts on this video.

Having said all that, I also think that the Tasmanian Government have dragged their heels for far too long on the whole Basslink thing, leaving it idle for so long.

New Bass Link CableAnonymous -- 22/04/09

If Telstra has invested so 'heavily' in Tasmania, why is it not switching on the fibre optic cable and generating revenue from it. ??

Telstra has enjoyed a monopoly on Tasmanian communications from the dawn of the telephone - and milked millions of dollars from Tasmanians for a poor service.

Australia, especially Tasmania lags so far behind the rest of the world we are seen as a third world country. Bass Strait is constantly used as a ploy for high costs of services, load of bulldust.

Telstra, get your finger out and let's have real high speed ADSL2 etc. across this island State.

UTTER CRAPAnonymous -- 22/04/09

Myth Bastards, I say