Telstra kills nowwearetalking site

Telstra has confirmed it closed the shutters on its nowwearetalking.com.au website, which at times has been used as a mouthpiece to promote its telecommunications sector regulatory ambitions.

It might have been so associated with Phil Burgess and the Sol era that it couldn't get rid of that stench of propaganda.

Mumbrella editor Tim Burrowes

The site, which hosted a network of blogs written by various Telstra staff, has been produced since 2005 while Telstra was still under former chief Sol Trujillo. At the launch of the site, then group managing director of Telstra public policy and communications Phil Burgess said a shareholder came up with the idea as a way for investors to see where Telstra stood on certain issues.

A spokesperson for Telstra this morning confirmed the site will shut down. Telstra has since unveiled plans to launch a new yet-to-be-named site which will sit under the Telstra.com domain.

"The end of NWAT will not mean the end of Telstra's online outreach — far from it," the telo told its subscribers via an email today.

A spokesperson for Telstra today confirmed the site will shut down, but was unable to provide further details at the time of writing.

The site was managed by a handful of Telstra's public relations managers, but was initially headed up by Rod Bruem, author of a blog who last year suggested Optus chief executive Paul O'Sullivan see a counsellor and accused parent company Singtel of being an arm of the Singaporean Government, and proceeded to call it "one of the most hideous totalitarian regimes in Asia".

Tim Burrows, editor of media and marketing online publisher, Mumbrella, said he was disappointed by Telstra's decision to shut the site.

"Bloody hell! I saw [the site] as hugely positive. I know it was seen by some as a propaganda arm, but to me it was becoming a genuine conversation. I thought it was a good place for Telstra to tell their story when the whole Fake Stephen Conroy [Twitter issue] was going on," Burrows told ZDNet.com.au.

Telstra recently launched its own Twitter identity, after reclaiming it from a cybersquatter. Burrows said the nowwearetalking site would make a perfect companion to its Twitter account for more complex arguments.

As for why Telstra has decided to take it down, Burrows speculated: "It might have been so associated with Phil Burgess and the Sol era that it couldn't get rid of that stench of propaganda."

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Talkback 35 comments

    It won't be missed Mel Sommersberg -- 07/09/09

    NWAT was just a marketing vehicle for Telstra, rather than what it was originally supposed to be - a site where people coupld openly discuss issues between Telstra and their customers.

    I found NWAT a propaganda machine driven by a bunch of sales-oriented overlords.

    hmm Davoe -- 07/09/09

    Whatever will Sydney Lawrence do with his time?

    Goodbye to a load of old nonsense Anonymous -- 07/09/09 (in reply to #320271035)

    Brilliant - Sydney has been figuratively castrated. The only downside is he may appear more often on this site, mouthing his proposterous Telstra propaganda.
    NWAT was a complete load of crap anyway..

    @Goodbye to a load of old nonse ... Terry -- 07/09/09 (in reply to #320271105)

    bah, NWAT was always good for a laugh. If you ever needed a place to relax and read one sided egotistical views, NWAT was the place :-)

    Hate to be the one... RS -- 07/09/09

    Lol...

    About 4-5 weeks ago, I mentioned to our friend Sydney that, with NWAT only being updated every other day, it was on its way out.

    It was obvious that with Mr. Thodey's more concilliatory approach, the us/them, ridiculous Tijuana Trujillo approach, still being clung to by 3 or 4 greedy TLS shareholders on NWAT, just wasn't on.

    In Sydney's typical Telstra are sugary perfect style, he called me a "fool" and said that NWAT was going stong.

    Since then I reminded him that NWAT was only being updated twice a week, once a week and then?

    So Mr. L, just like you were wrong about Telstra MD (misleading and deceptive) wrong about regulations (which are laws) wrong about Telstra shares which have plummeted, you were, umm, wrong again, lol.

    You do get an A+ for consistency however, Mr. Lawrence!

    A new journey of a thousand leagues began with a few first steps today. Vasso Massonic -- 07/09/09

    Bigger and better and more attuned to current events.

    Happy Telstra Shareholder.

    @ a journey Anonymous -- 07/09/09 (in reply to #320271221)

    now without nwat, agreed.

    Congrats RS -- 07/09/09 (in reply to #320271221)

    Congratulations Mr, Massonic.

    It has finally taken the closure of the Trujillo us/them propaganda site, for you to actually see what we have been telling your for months and in some people's cases, years.

    Now that the ego which is Sol Trujillo has gone and so too his hatred site, as you say, Telstra can focus on becoming more attuned to current events.

    Instead of resting on their inherited PSTN laurels (profits), they may now actually (have to) do something.

    Even happier non Telstra shareholder (phew)!

    Congratulations Mr, Massonic Vasso Massonic -- 07/09/09 (in reply to #320271328)

    Sour Grapes.

    goodness ungracious, lol RS -- 07/09/09 (in reply to #320271331)

    What an odd comment coming from NWAT's #1 comments man.

    As usual Mr. Massonic you are both ungracious in defeat and ungracious in... defeat. Lol.

    Bye Bye Sol.. Paul Grenfell -- 07/09/09

    About time.. Thanks David for undoing the hugely propaganda machine formed by the Sol era..
    NWAT was never about customer service or consumer complaints or any real purpose other than for Telstra and some die hard loyal Shareholders to tout their gross propaganda. The stench lives on, and so it needs a freshman to take its place.I am sure David will be able get some other worthwhile project up and running to take its place. �Nowwearelistening�?

    Play the game. Sydney Lawrence -- 08/09/09

    Please contributors let us be sensible and do not descend into the depths of unsustainability or the delusion of a victory of some sort with the repositioning of NWAT.

    NWAT served its purpose as a forum for all to express opinions concerning the telecommunication industry in Australia. To some extent it was hijacked by Telstra opponents for their own purposes. That's fine and pro Telstra people gave as good as they got.

    I hope that the revised forum will be the catalyst for the new Telstra ( new CEO and Directors) and be used as a platform for genuine suggestion or complaints, after other normal channels of appeal are exhausted, and be answered quickly by Telstra experts.

    Without doubt Telstra is Australia's favourite telco and this will continue, and accelerate, as Australia moves ahead with communication facilities. I would advise Telstra opponents to forget their hope of unfair regulation and untruths to be their salvation and invest, like Telstra, to compete and perhaps win favour with the Australian consumer.

    Favoritism Queen Bee -- 08/09/09 (in reply to #320271596)

    "Telstra is Australia's favourite telco" Favorite to who? Dont assume that you speak for everyone. Monopolizing the market and therefore have the most customers most certainly does not make it a favorite.

    Quite right Sydney, quite right Mel Sommersberg -- 08/09/09 (in reply to #320271596)

    "Please contributors let us be sensible and do not descend into the depths of unsustainability or the delusion of a victory of some sort with the repositioning of NWAT."

    That's right, there's been no victory celebrations, no tickertape parades, no popping of champagne corks. NWAT is gone but Telstra's high pricing, low-spec products and lousy customer service are still in place and running wild.

    Out of the two choices I'd rather the site stay and have Telstra offer more features and higher download limits on their broadband products.

    Move on Sydney Terry -- 08/09/09 (in reply to #320271596)

    "NWAT served its purpose as a forum for all to express opinions concerning the telecommunication industry in Australia. To some extent it was hijacked by Telstra opponents for their own purposes. That's fine and pro Telstra people gave as good as they got. "

    Hijacked by Telstra opponents? Seriously Sydney? NWAT was a Telstra propaganda site through and through, the new Telstra board is smart enough to realise that and have wisely removed it.

    Here I was thinking you were going to embrace the new Telstra management team and their efforts to moving forward and improving the company, but instead you're hung on the crap the old Telstra spilled (like NWAT). Move on, Telstra is better without NWAT.

    sydeny you big funny silly guy Anonymous -- 08/09/09 (in reply to #320272602)

    ha.

    sydney says. nwat served a purpose as a forum for ***all*** to express, blah, blah.

    the says. it was hijacked by telstra's opponents.

    but you just told us nwat was for ***all** sydney? including these hijacking telstra opponents? this way we could get balance, from both sides, rather than just your telstra yeh opinion?

    now youre saying anyone but telstra weren't really welcome? make up your mind, ha.

    no, by *all* you mean *all* telstra supporters only.

    but obviously the telstra crew didn't give as good as they got or nwat we still be up and running. they must have been smashed so badly telstra had to shut it down, ha.

    let it go sydney, it was a big mistake by telstra, like sol and the linebackers, they know it and are rectifying it.

    all you are doing is relighting the fires as thodey is putting them out.

    who cares? Davo -- 09/09/09 (in reply to #320271596)

    telstra is no longer relevant, it will blunder along for a few more years but its day has passed.

    Good riddance to telco mediocrity.

    NWAT ****? Anonymous -- 08/09/09

    It seems that the unlamented (by all sensible people) NWAT site may have seemed like part of the ominous sounding Telstra news service.

    It all appeared a bit like Orwell's 1984, complete with the relentless involvement of the newspeak activists. Pity the Sol conga line missed the boat by about twentyfive years.

    New NWAT can work. Sydney Lawrence -- 12/09/09

    On reflection of the above Posts, Mel Sommersberg offers the conclusion that makes the most sense and best understands, without bias, the NWAT situation.

    He offers serious and sensible comment which would be considered by those in command at Telstra when he states and suggests "out of the two choices I'd rather the Site stay and have Telstra offer more features and higher download limits on their broadband products".

    See, this is intelligent comment presented in the hope of advancement of quality of product for all Australians and not reflective of the Anti Telstra bash by Telstra opponents we see so often.

    Hope Mel sets the pace and we see the new Telstra Site working in a way to receive suggestions for an improved Telstra service and happy and contented customers.

    NWAT 2 = JOKE, I believe! RS -- 12/09/09 (in reply to #320288102)

    Telstra's NWAT MK2 is less than a week old and is a joke even more so than the original, already, in my opinion.

    They say we listen, but as Sydney prays for too, apparently ONLY if you are all sugary Telstra positive and there to tell them how wonderful they are, as Sydney ALWAYS does.

    In just 4 days I have already had 3 posts omitted for criticising the old regime and a few blind shareholders but praising the new more open Thodey Telstra, and urging these shareholders to stop the whinging, stop underming Mr. Thodey by relighting all the Trujillo burnt bridges just as Mr. Thodey mends them, but...

    No, there were no expletives, no personal attacks. Ironically, I actually posted a referral to here, where Sydney attacked Simon and questioned his mental capacity for simply disagreeing with Sydney's portfolio driven comments! Just as Sydney was asking everyone to make the new NWAT the holding hands/kumbaya Mr. Trujillo had told everyone Telstra were not and would never be.

    Telstra listen, pffft - I then (and it was also in response to another who had similarly questioned) had a typical sarcastic reply from resident Telstra spokesman Rod Bruem which said this -

    RB 11/9 .."Please no more CRAZY POSTS about leeches, Xenophopes (xenophobes), Telstra "the most profitable company in the world" Telstra's network being "inherited". WHAT A LOAD OF GARBAGE FROM THE TESTRA (Telstra) HATERS. Time to move forward.{end}

    For the record, as usual, there had to be spin - I SAID MOST PROFITABLE "TELCO" - NOT COMPANY.

    So Telstra listens? Let me reiterate. This above comment came from one of Telstra's upper echelon spokespersons, not a member of the public or a shareholder, one who is supposed to be a professional and listening!

    Seems however, he considers anything but Telstra yeah, yeah, "crazy posts and garbage from Telstra haters".

    Especially when you highlight THEIR words - leeches. The fact they inherited the network from the government (which they did, shareholders bought Telstra, after they inherited the network). Deny being the most profitable Telco in the world (but claim to be on investor days, nice).

    I then asked how come Mr. Nassar was hung, drawn and quartered, for making blog comments which were less than Telstra flattering, but it's ok for Mr. Bruem, to make nice sugary comments and attack a Telstra customer x5 (me)! No answer.

    I then asked a few questions which of course mediator Craig Middleton replied with utmost UNprofessionalism, in my opinion, only with short sarcastic replies.

    At least Jeremy Mitchell at NWAT, tried to be open and fair Messrs Bruem and Middleton.

    NWAT 2 is again a Telstra propaganda site, but worse. Where no one but Telstra supporters, shareholders and all round uneducated comms fools are welcome, I believe.

    Obviously that's why me and most here aren't welcome.

    As I suggested, following Mr Bruems nasty reply and particularly following his miserable failure NWAT being closed, Mr. Bruem should have absconded to Tijuana with his mentor when he had the opportunity.

    It's still not too late to take the broom to Mr. Bruem and Mr. Middleton and bring back Mr. Mitchell!

    Ooh, I now look forward to a dispargaging lie fest from Sydney. But Sydney this is a place where people come to air their views and this is my view. So no matter how much you and your portfolio argue with me, you will not change my view.

    You will also not change the fact I have had 3 comments omitted by your wonderful new NWAT in just 4 days and you have conveniently and like NWAT, had none omitted, I'm sure.

    network questio SR -- 12/09/09 (in reply to #320288365)

    You continually say that Telstra inherited the pstn (I gather you mean the copper network alone, not the combined fibre /copper network)

    Question one, what proof do you have of this statement and are you prepared to provide evidence as a back up for your claims?

    Question two, in your opinion who would own any new copper network that has been installed since Telstra shares have been sold?

    Just an interested by stander.

    @New nwat can work Anonymous -- 12/09/09 (in reply to #320288102)

    I agree with Mel too Syd, here's a copy/paste of what he said -

    NWAT was just a marketing vehicle for Telstra, rather than what it was originally supposed to be - a site where people coupld openly discuss issues between Telstra and their customers.

    I found NWAT a propaganda machine driven by a bunch of sales-oriented overlords.

    - glad to see you've finally woken up and can see what NWAT was all about too Syd.

    Let's be friends Robbie. Sydney Lawrence -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320288841)

    Anon, Mel is free to express his opinions which are respected and valued, that's what it's all about being an Australian.

    RS you mind is obviously closed and rejects sensible and factual debate. For your information RS, I also have had a Post to "Working Together" ( my name for the new NWAT platform) deleted. The Moderator decided that it was not helpful and acceptable and that fine. Every society has rules.

    Rod Bruem is a great gentleman and wrote with a certain levity and it's a shame you didn't understand his friendly sarcasm. But why your foolish racial remark about Tijuana? Surely an educated man like yourself RS, would know that Sol lives in San Diego, California?

    It is still my fervent hope, RS, that you will correspond with the new NWAT and in good faith contribute genuinely with suggestions and constructive criticism. You will be judged (as we all will) by those who read our writings and I do implore you to stop your propaganda crusade from now on.

    Could I take this opportunity to sincerely thank ZDNET for the kind extension of this platform that allows serious and at times genuine comment.

    Ripley's Sydney RS -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320291578)

    Sydney IWBYF - I will be your friend.... if you listen (like Telstra, lol), admit the ills of the past and stop the shareytales, G R E E D.

    There is only one reason you are here and that is your wife's shares, just admit it. No one will think less of you, in fact all non-TLS shareholders would probably say, about time, worst kept secret and may actually start to respect you more (more than the current zero).

    Your so called sensible and factual debate is nothing but greedy NWAT MK 1 & 2, lies based around your wife's portfolio. You change your opinion from left to right and back again, to coincide with Telstra's latest spin.

    For example, you still swear the antagonistic Tijuana Trujillo approach was right and now the conciliatory Townsville Thodey (sorry about all that racism, lol) approach right. Two extreme opposites, can't both be right.

    It is disgusting that you simply overlook all commonsense and decency and everything you say and do, revolves around the portfolio.

    Typically above, like all you shills, you conveniently overlook the entire gist of my comment and avoid the issues, by wanting to argue over a little throw away line, like where you and Rod's hero lives.

    Those Australian's who are (or were) ashamed of Telstra and Tijuana Trujillo do not care where he lives, as long as he's not in charge of Telstra. It's a pity your greed can't let you see my friendly, jovial nautre in my Tijuana Trujillo comment. But as you wish San Diego Sol, it is. San Diego sounds more Tijuana than Tijuana anyway, lol!

    Sydney you need to chill, look past the portfolio and regain minimal commonsense (i'm sure you had at least a little pre-TLS - but then you did buy TLS, so).

    FYI - I have been commenting at NWAT 2 in good faith. Unlike Mr. Bruem, I am not a highly paid employee, who is supposed to "toe the company line"! Mr. Bruem needs to demonstrate more professionlism and composure, in relations to others who aren't gullibly or greedily taken-in, by his highly paid rhetoric, if he wants NWAT 2 to be taken seriously. Then he was the architect behind NWAT and we all know what happened to that. So again, he should have absconded to SAN DIEGO with his hero, when he had the chance.

    Also unlike you portfolio puppets - who go there to sycophantically agree with everything they say and do - I have offered a number of suggestions, starting with dopey Telstra shill's having enough brain matter to just shut up and stop undermining Townsville Thodey's new approach, by talking absolute nonsense at every blog everywhere. Exhibit A above!

    Become a rational human being Sydney, as you aren't just embarrassing yourself you are embarrassing Telstra. A company who have made more headway in 6 months than they did in the previous 4 years.

    As I am commenting in good faith and as your new friend Sydney, I believe Telstra would like you to wake up to the ills of the past and then move on. Because Telstra are continually being embarrassed by a few loose cannon greedy shareholders like yourself, especially when those like me then take the stupid stuff you say and embarrass Telstra further, lol!

    You believe your lies are helping when all they are doing is underming the great work being done by Townsville Thodey, by getting more and more people, like me a Telstra customer x 5, off side with Telstra.

    You have been told - Ripley's (believe it or not)! .

    Ripleys believe it or not......... Anonymous -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320292182)

    Believe it or not, that was just nonsense

    Really RS -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320292521)

    And who might you be to make such an assumption, oh wise [sic] and anonymous one?

    Not big enough to put a name, any name, to your wisdom [sic]?

    Try using Mike, Sydney or Vasso! I'm sure one will fit like Cinderella's glass slipper.

    This is between Sydney and myself, what does it have to do with you, unless you are Sydney hiding?

    Perhaps you are another snivelling, greedy little Telstra shareholder, who simply see's his/her own reflection in my comments, lol!

    re Really Anonymous -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320292529)

    He's probably one of these Telstra clowns from Telstrabog, I mean blog.

    Still waiting SR -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320292182)

    You still haven't answered the question about Telstras network that was directed at you yesterday or is it you don't have an answer!

    Apologies and answers SR! RS -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320293073)

    My apologies SR (as opposed to RS) I honestly didn't see your question(s)! Must have been too preoccupied answering more of greedy shareholder #1's jibberish.

    I'm referring to the original network, Telstra received from the government.

    1. Telstra (pre- privatisation) inherited the network from the government, which included it's clientele. At the time, as this was Australia's only network, they received a monopoly, having all clientele.

    Please feel free to prove me wrong.

    2. Telstra shareholders own.

    Also an innocent bystander, who was lured here (well NWAT firstly) simply being sickened by 3 greedy, lying, sycophantic Telstra shareholders and no other reason!

    Smile is nice,but watch the knife. Sydney Lawrence -- 13/09/09

    RS, if you consider your reply to be amicably extending the hand of friendship and conciliation I would not like to be around when you decide "no more Mr nice guy" and decide to get nasty.

    Friend or friend? RS -- 13/09/09 (in reply to #320292950)

    Sydney if you were going somewhere important and you had a big booger hanging out of your nose, would you want a friend who would tell you, to stop you being embarrassed or a friend who would just let you go?

    Well... I am simply the friend telling you, you have a big Telstra booger hanging out!

    No Friend here................. Anonymous -- 15/09/09 (in reply to #320293345)

    Your reference to the booger, confirms that you are nothing more than a foul mouthed twit. You are a disgrace to this blog.

    NWANL? RS -- 15/09/09 (in reply to #320298681)

    I had a reply to you Mike, Sydney, Vasso (which ever one of you greedy shareholders this is) but after todays news I can't stop laughing, so it is no longer required. How's those shares, lol!

    To the topic. Here's a copy of my last mail to the new NWA(not)T, sent a few days ago.

    RS ..."Before totally writing NWAT 2 off as a total waste of time, I will give it one more go, Mr. Mid****on!

    I had 4 comments omitted here in just 4 days (addendum 15/9 - this one makes it 5). That's beaten even NWAT hands down.

    Again, they weren't personal attacks and were sans expletives, so surely, a little argy-bargy is allowed? It can't be all kissy cuddly, Telstra is wonderful [sic] if Telstra is actually serious about listening to everyone, and not just those with a financial stake, who will agree with you perpetually!

    NWATAO - "NOW WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF"?

    In fact the replies I received to my other comments, which some how snuck past you, the over zealous, go getter, Telstra guardian editor - which I received from Telstra spokespeople, Mr Br**m and you Mr Mid****on, were more disrespectful than anything I said, I believe. But of course, being Telstra spin doctors, you can say "whatever you want and refuse me the decency of right of reply, can't you"?

    NWAYAOC - "NOW WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF, CR**G"? WELL...

    Afraid a mere customer x 5 (soon to be an ex-customer x5, due to this episode and a few greedy shareholders who sicken me) will embarrass you in a comms debate? That you'll be found wanting and your highly paid position put in jeopardy, by a novice, lol?

    The people in charge of this site, obviously "do not want any controversy or anyone at NWAT 2 who will tell it as it is, warts and all. Although I'm sure if I sent in a rosy Telstra comment or a derogatory comment about Telstra's competitors it would be posted a millisecond after I sent it, lol. Just like NWAT did within minutes, when I applauded Telstra for securing a contract for being "the only company who had the solution" - again as I said before, well done Telstra, that's how it should be!

    But you need to listen even when you don't like what you hear, rather than putting your fingers in your ears and stupidly accusing anyone who disagrees of being a Telstra hater, like Mr Br**m did to me (now I know where Sydney gets it from). Not just wave through all the accolades from greedy shareholders who frankly, will wee in your pockets all day, because they believe by doing so their shares will rise. Funny though, it hasn't happened in 12 years (apart from the dotcom boom) so, what do they say about the dead horse?

    What a shame and how typical NWANL - "NO.. we are NOT listening"!

    Please feel free to omit this too Mr. Mid****on. If so, I will simply submit to Whirlpool, ZDNet etc, etc and also forward a copy to Mr. Thodey, if possible? So he knows, TELSTRA IS NOT LISTENING - thank you"... {END}

    So here's ZD's, the others to follow, lol!

    Disgrace to the Blog? lazerzap -- 23/09/09 (in reply to #320298681)

    After reading 85% of the comments.. I thought the booger comment was the best.. (so far..)

    Ahem.. Now that I have bothered converting from a "reader" to a "writer" what can I say that hasn't been said already..

    How about this "gem" from my wikiblog..

    "Devious Telstra games

    I think Telstra play devious games with their customers. Reading of the ‘fine print’ is mandatory when dealing with Telstra.

    But even then. Telstra have proven that their ‘conditions’ are always changable. (to Telstra’s benefit) So reading the ‘fine print’ will not help you in a self policing industry like communications.

    Game 1
    Telstra will still ‘stich you up’ with 200MB (cough) Broadband contracts that last for 2 years. (If you don’t know any better…)

    Game 2
    Telstra SIM card ‘Bonus Credit’ cannot be ‘allocated’ to your selected ‘plan’ and must be used at Telstras ‘standard rate’.

    Game 3
    Federal Government telephone rental ‘discounts’ can only be applied to certain plans. (Not the cheapest plan.. They don’t help the un-employed really..)

    Game 4
    Telstra advertise that If you are an existing ‘Pre Paid Customer’ they will transfer unused credit to your new mobile phone sim. What they fail to tell you is that you must have a ‘blank’ sim. You only find this out when you try to get the credit transfered.

    I think Telstra have many ‘devious games’ they play on the public. I will document more as I find them."

    Was NWAT a one sided corporate spin site?

    The question isn't worth answering..

    Anyone who saw NWAT as anything else must have somehow "lost" their ability to process data and draw obvious conclusions.

    Some people may lament the loss of "data" they contributed to the NWAT website.

    Well.. Perhaps those people would have been better off communicating within a well known community that allows greater freedom of speech?

    Whirlpool.. (Or maybe my "lazerwikiblog"? *wink*)

    I think that they must have been living under a rock, or maybe just not smart enough to realize that Telstra only ever cared for profit.

    The NWAT website provided a token "counterweight" to the (ever increasing) anti-telstra blogs..

    But thats what it's like living under a (near) monopoly.. It's still "cheaper" to make a spin site and then "remove" it than actually provide decent customer service.

    You now have my 2c...

    You now have my 2c... Anonymous -- 24/09/09 (in reply to #320329711)

    If the booger blog turned you on, you do need help.

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