NBN - Everything you need to know about the National Broadband Network

Telstra: It's a B-grade slasher movie

In what the telco likens to a B-grade movie, Telstra says its rivals have forgotten about the goals of the National Broadband Network (NBN) and are instead using it and the government to gain market advantage and tear the incumbent apart.

"It's like watching a B-grade slasher movie but, in this film, the knives are out for millions of Telstra customers and shareholders," Telstra group MD, public policy & communications Phil Burgess said in a statement.

The calls for separation are not for the good of the nation, according to Burgess, but a ploy to kill the competition.

"In a case of clear vested interest, they actually want to use separation as a means to reduce the competition they face in their particular markets," he said.

It's Telstra against the world, according to Burgess: "Mobile operators want to see Telstra's mobiles business broken up; ISPs want BigPond broken up; content providers want BigPond and Foxtel broken up; telcos want to put an axe to the lot; and Acacia wants to shield its NBN from all competition, even from wireless. Google, of course, wants everything for free."

"The most likely outcome in all the gaming that is now going on is even more delay in building the NBN — or, even worse, that the NBN may never be built at all."

How open is Telstra's open access?
Telstra itself has copped some flack from the Competitive Carriers' Coalition (CCC), which represents non-dominant Australian carriers.

The Coalition is concerned about Telstra's "open" access, saying the telco is being deliberately vague in its submission around what form of wholesale access it will be providing.

Telstra has stated that open access should apply to "bottlenecks" in the network, an economic term for a piece of infrastructure that is unique — or a monopoly.

The problem with such a definition is that not all parties have the same idea of what comprises a bottleneck, according to Ovum telecommunications analyst David Kennedy.

"They're deliberately vague at the moment because they want to negotiate details with the government," he said.

When asked to clarify exactly what the company meant by "bottleneck", a Telstra spokesperson said: "We can't discuss what is going into our bid. I don't think any of our competitors would be able to offer that sort of detail."

Ovum's Kennedy said the term "bottleneck" could mean only the most basic components of the network would be available to access seekers.

Telstra's argument is, according to Kennedy, that if it is technically and commercially feasible to build competing elements of the network, Telstra shouldn't be forced to provide open access.

It is even possible, he said, that fibre and cabinets not be considered as bottlenecks, with rivals having to build their own.

"What's technically feasible and commercially viable is open to interpretation and changes over time," he said, using DSLAMs as an example. At first there was not much interest in putting DSLAMs into place, but then their price came down, making it commercially viable.

The CCC says such an approach is wasteful and not economically viable, and that if the proponent had to be structurally separated, that there would be no reason to operate that way.

"Under the separated network model proposed by every other telecommunications participant, the network owner/wholesaler would have no reason to withhold some services from any retail competitor," CCC executive director David Forman said in a statement.

"In fact, a separated wholesaler would have an incentive to offer the most options to the most competitors to drive consumer interest and uptake," he said.

Forman says Telstra's model transfers the risk from itself to consumers and competitors.

"It has presented a model of industrial organisation that would have been right at home in the Soviet Union, except that Telstra has assumed the role of the all-powerful State," Forman said.

Telstra says, however, that it is offering an open network. "The commitment we'll be offering is an open access network. People will be able to offer the same sort of retail services that we'll be offering, but there'll also be the opportunity to differentiate themselves," the spokesperson said.

Talkback 95 comments

    Keep Telstra strong. Sydney Lawrence -- 04/07/08

    The arguments from Telstra opponents, who desire Telstra broken-up for their own financial gain, are so self-servingly obvious as to be ridiculous and dangerous for Australia.

    Their claim that a non Telstra roll-out will make the product cheaper for the consumer is a deceipt. The fact is that no matter who is granted the NBN build the investor will require a suitable return on that investment. So be it Telstra or others the charges will be similar.

    It is also a fact that should other than Telstra be the NBN builder Australians will suffer from a situation no Government should allow. Telstra opponents demand that no opposition be allowed to them and in fact would be themselves, a monopoly.

    Not only that but Australian's would be the victims of a system that must remain unchanged for twenty years despite technology advances in other countries. No, this Telstra breakup is not about fairness it is about advantage for Telstra opponents.

    Love the trash talk S. Richmond -- 04/07/08 (in reply to #320105802)

    Sydney, almost your entire argument holds ZERO substance to it. Going above and beyond your argument and this article, you only need to look at Telstras immediate history (past 5 years) to see what they're capable of in terms of anti-compedativeness. ANyone remember when they tried to sell ADSL services cheaper than their wholesale service to other ISPs? It was one of many such incidents.

    Based on Telstras history alone i would be VERY hesitant to even look at allowing Telstra access to the australian tax payer money, let alone handing them the role of our future telecommunications.

    Yes too cheap, how dare they! SJT -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105812)

    Yes... got to hate it when Telstra are too cheap! Most consumer unfriendly!

    So what you guys want is our NBN to be as cheap as possible - as long as Telstra aren't the cheapest, then you're willing to pay a bit more!

    That's the competitive (compedative?) spirit!

    Predatory behaviour, how dare they! James Bell -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105837)

    SJT,

    There's a difference between being cheap and anti-competitive. i.e. providing the same retail service at a lower rate than the going wholesale rate is anti-competitive

    That's only one example however. What if we look at all the other times the ACCC has had to step in. One could not be blamed for believing Telstra strategically take these actions knowing perfectly well they'll only end up with the ACCC, and when the ACCC doesn't rule in their favour (over 95% of the time) what does Telstra do? They take it to court.. and it's been proven before that they've taken things to court even when knowing they weren't going to win, but the fact that they have the ability to delay these outcomes by abusing our legal system allows Telstra to maintain their monopoly for longer, create uncertainty in the industry and screw smaller competitors to the ground... not to mention the Australian public.

    Telstra currently have 47 ongoing legal actions against the ACCC; that's 47 legal actions against the very independent body that's sole purpose of existence is to protect the rights of consumers.

    This is the reason why I, and the majority of others would rather see the NBN be provided by an entity that is not allowed to compete at a retail level, or at the very minimum be functionally separated to remove these conflicts of interest. Telstra is a perfect example today of why we can't allow the same vertically integrated, monopoly exist through the NBN.

    Oh btw I read your two part thesis on why you believe competitors in your words are "leeching" off Telstra's equipment . Thanks for the laugh. I particularly found your analysis on iiNet's costs very amusing. Were you by any chance one of the Telstra legal team using this rationale when trying to justify why Telstra should increase their ULL rates by over 300% to the ACCC and ACT? lol

    #6 - weasel! SJT -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105839)

    My we are conveniently evasive, aren't we James?

    #6 - Put up or shut up in relation to your libelous comments in relation to Mr. Morgan.

    It must be terrible being too gutless to back your own big mouth?

    Nice try James Bell -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105842)

    SJT,

    There's nothing to "put up or shut up" about. As I'm sure you've picked up from some of your google searches many believe your friend Mr. Morgan to be heavily biased towards Telstra. This bias in my opinion is simply illogical without some form of financial insentive. What more do you want me to say? I'm not taking anything back and I'm not putting anything else forward. My opinion is my opinion and unless you've got something you believe can change it then this point of discussion really has nowhere else to go. I don't "weasel" out of anything, and I certianly don't divert or use arugments out of context like others; however unfortunately I am not always privileged with time to respond.

    So instead of changing the argument again, like you so often do and focusing on my opinion of a so called independent consultant (who may well be independent, but just heavily biased.. although I'm not quite sure how that works) why not actually argue about the points that matter?

    Reality certainly does dent your ambitions James! SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105848)

    James, a dose of reality!

    So put your paymasters wishes to one side, feed the mouse, take a tablet and then sit down, because reality may hurt?

    Q. Have you ever thought why (apart from you're ridiculously adolescent and libelous, anti-Telstra prognosis of being on Telstra's payroll) "independent telecoms experts" like Mr. Morgan and Mr. Lynch, with their many years of experience and knowledge, may appear pro-Telstra?

    A. Because - they and "Telstra are right"!!!!!!!!!!!!! and you and your paymasters are WRONG !!!!!!!!

    Noooooooo....LMFAO.

    SJT Anonymous -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105910)

    ...to say that some one is being pubescent when you yourself use terms such as 'LMFAO'
    is very disturbing.
    i believe that children meaning teenagers or all those below the age of 18 should be seen and not heard when it comes to our countries technological future.

    thank you.

    Yes ok! SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105924)

    Yes thanks for the input - LMFAO

    Amazing Mr Bell Anonymous -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105839)

    You have used the 47 argument so many times over such a long period of time that I would have expected the number to have changed slightly.

    As soon as your employer changed their tone and started pushing the separation line you have also changed you tone to suit.

    When will you stand up and admit to the world who you work for.

    Telstra apparently James Bell -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105844)

    Anonymous apparently I work for Telstra.

    Yes I've highlighted the fact that Telstra has 47 legal actions against the ACCC a handful of times over the last couple of months. While it emphasizes the incumbent's disdain for consumers and competition it's also tangeable, unlike the SJT's and Sydney's of this world who love to accuse competitors of "leeching" off Telstra in every second post without a scrap of evidence to back their claims.

    If I recall our legal system unfortunately isn't the fastest (to Telstra's benefit) and I don't believe this number (47) has changed.

    Leeching proof for the 3rd time and counting. SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105853)

    He really is precious our Mr. James Bell isn't he. Bit like talking to the proverbial brick wall!

    So YET AGAIN in relation to leeching and Mr. Bell's claims of not a shred of evidence, for the 3rd time in just 5 months, here is a link to Telstra's half yearly, official presentation pack to the ASX - 21/2/2008. So unlike you're libellous "opinion" (lol) Mr. Bell, this is actually an official doc - do you understand? Within, amongst everything else, it clearly outlines wholesale.

    HELLO JAMES - YOO HOO! Just a quick shout to make sure it sinks in the 3rd time. I'll even wipe your bum for you with the exact locations. So please pay special attention to - pg 3 #6, pg 5 #9 and particularly, pg 6 #11, ULL and LSS PRICED BELOW COST!

    http://imagesignal.comsec.com.au/asxdata/20080221/pdf/00814077.pdf

    Now, let me pre-empt your typical mundane reply - it is either Telstra spin or out of context? Hang on while I toss a coin - lol!

    Addendum SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105912)

    Extra bum wiping for JB - also refer to pg5 #10.

    Sloppy use of the word "proof" James Bell -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105912)

    I find it amusing SJT that you continue to use a Telstra slideshow as as if it contained unambiguous evidence, when I'm fairly confident you know perfectly well that this really does not account for anything. Telstra even acknowledges this in page 2 of the disclaimers where it states the following "Actual results, performance or achievements could be significantly different..". Telstra could try to tell us that blue is green in this document and it wouldn't matter.

    I consider the following links to hold substantially more merit than your Telstra rara pack:

    http://www.competitiontribunal.gov.au/Telstra%20ULLS%20Summary%20May%202007.doc

    http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/787667/fromItemId/142

    A few interesting quotes from the Australian Competition Tribunal's rejection of Telstra's proposed pricing model for you:

    "The Tribunal has reached the conclusion that it is NOT satisfied.. (that):

    - Telstra's estimated network costs represent a reasonable estimate of its projected network costs

    - The PIE II model can be relied upon to estimate accurately Telstra's costs of supplying the ULLS

    - Telstra's allocation of its ULLS specific costs across ULLS lines only is reasonable with the consequence that the Tribunal is not satisfied that Telstra's estimates of its ULLS specific costs are reasonable"

    So in other words, what you are using as "proof" from Telstra is not deemed accurate by two independent statutory bodies based on the information Telstra has provided.

    I also find it interesting that Telstra originally agreed upon a ULLS Band 2 rate of approximately $7 only a couple of years before they decided they wanted to charge $30, but what really makes the argument difficult to swallow is that a Telstra customer can currently receive line access for $19.95 per month. I suppose Telstra, being the noble charity that it is, is providing all its services at below cost?

    some proof You can ring my bell, ring my bell -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105929)

    You pull out a couple of url's that talk about one ruling against Telstra. This is a very widely known ruling and contains no new information to warrant a long winded post by an employee of TTTT. The cost of the ULL will always be in dispute, at least with an entirely new network the cost basis will be known and all of this rhetoric will be much easier to substantiate.

    The ACCC has issues a huge number of draft determinations which force Telstra to follow abide by but at the same time do not provide recourse options for Telstra.

    Missing link - lol SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105929)

    Your first link was non-existent and the 2nd to an obscure ruling from August 2006 - lol!

    It's almost dated to the very same date as the ridiculous Sydney Lawrence share link you supplied, from 2006.

    You do know it's 2008?????? If not ask the chaps down at T4 (then again they probably wouldn't know either) - LMFAO at you yet again.

    But at least you tried, at last - good for you! Keep trying boy!

    Worked for me Rodney -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105939)

    Both links worked for me

    It worked! SJT -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105943)

    Yes the first link worked at work but not at home - curious!

    We all do know however, that since this doc. in 2006, the ACCC were found by the courts, to have treated Telstra unfairly (April 2007). So what does that tell you!

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/Telstra-wins-ACCC-court-battle/0,130061791,339274717,00.htm

    Little wonder Telstra have the much claimed 47 legal proceedings against them.

    "Monopoly Myth" Anonymous -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105839)

    Oh the old Telstra Monopoly Myth" trick...go to whingepool with the other Whingers. You will be at home there with all the Telstra Haters!!!

    Dont get your point? Davo -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105909)

    The whingers at Whirlpool are customers, funny that you think customers are telstra haters?? Maybe think about why customers would complain about their Telstra experience?

    Sorry but it had to be said. Anonymous -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106004)

    The whingers at whirlpool are mainly tech geeks [excuse my tongue] who know nothing but pc, mac, downloads, speeds and cost. They do not represent the average person on the street.

    You are wrong Sydney Simon -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105802)

    I have no financial interest other than as a consumer of telecoms services and my hopes for Australia's future and that of my kids. Any person who has any knowledge of telecommunications has known since T1 days that separation of infrastructure and retail was essential for Australia to succeed. Telstra has repeatedly acted against the interests of Australia and consumers, whilst continuing to litigate and market against existing regulation.

    Lets be very clear about this, industry analysts have been calling for this separation for over a decade. Politicians and Telstras opponents have only picked up on this very recently. The majority of people demanding separation have no commercial interest but rather a national interest. Telstra breakup is about getting the framework right in this country and repairing the damage caused to the telecoms industry over the past decade.

    SYDNEY - WHERE'S JAMES? SJT -- 10/07/08 (in reply to #320105802)

    Sydney if you bump into the paid antagonist, please pass on this info. He probably already knows or was involved in the arrangements.

    http://www.aicc.org.au/event_detail.cfm?id=15

    It's a dream come true for him, his perfect company and the messiah for one command peformance only. A little shindig he won't want to miss. He could probably pop round and pick up the "mangy lapdog" on his way too - lol.

    To whet your appetite here's the headline: -

    The chamber and OPTUS are delighted to invite you and your guests to a lunch with Graeme Samuel, Chairman ACCC.

    Did I hear someone accuse Mr. Morgan of being on Telstra's payroll - ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Think of the children Anonymous -- 05/07/08

    Sydney, it is true that whoever builds the network expect a return on investment but you fail to realize that Telstra are seeking a much higher ROI compared to others.

    What this means for the consumer is higher broadband prices.

    People should also realize that organizations such as Optus and Terria don't mind if Telstra build the network, in fact they suggested a joint venture but Telstra refused.

    The whole issue is equal access and this is why people want Telstra separated.

    If Telstra build the network and continue to operate as they do. Do you think they will provide access to other ISP's at the same price as they would to BigPond? I didn't think so.

    History shows what Telstra does and is capable of, they don't care about the Customer, only how much money they can make, like any other business.

    But the consumer cares, allowing Telstra to build the NBN is suicide for the consumer and consumers need to be informed to make the right choice.

    Yes like any other business! The penny is finally starting to drop! SJT -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105838)

    They (Telstra) don't care about the customer, only how much money thay can make, "like any other business". Too right Anon and TERRiA is no different at all (just x 8 - lol). That's reality and now that this stark realization has finally hit home, perhaps the rest of the TERRiA folly will also become apparent!

    If TERRiA wins, what's the bet the $4.7b subsidy, will soon need to become $5b, $7b, $10b or? And unfortunately, to save face, the government who want this delivered come whay may for political advantage, will throw money at them and that is what TERRiA are banking on (pun intended). That is, if they actually win, which all non-dreamers know they don't really want to - they are just in there to attempt to force separation of Telstra!

    Regardless, no matter who wins, the opposition should keep the gov. and winner accountable and restrict the subsidy to $4.7b. "Which surely we can all agree on". Yes/No?

    Thing is, no matter who wins, we will pay. However, (think OPEL now), Telstra will get it done, done in a timely fashion and possibly within budget. But if they blow the budget, they'll still have the capacity to fulfill their obligations.

    Conversely, there are (again think OPEL) just too many ifs with TERRiA, to chance our technological future on. And why, because they have said they will save us a few dollars "initially" but have given no guarantees afterwards?

    So let's stop dreaming and just let Telstra get on with it!

    ... Anonymous -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105841)

    Why should I let Telstra control such a big and important aspect of Australians?

    Telstra are asking $80/month for a basic subscription where as others are quoting $40/month.

    There's no need to doubt Telstra competitors and not being able to complete the project within budge and time frame. If one starts doubting one organization, you can equality have doubts in another organization.

    Should also be noted that Telstras majority of hardware related work is contracted and 3rd party companies do the work for them.

    I personally do not care who builds it or owns it, but customers like myself expect a decent service at realistic prices.

    We can all agree that Telstra is not a company which provides such a service. Just look at their current pricing structure.

    The penny still needs to drop for some! James Bell -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105841)

    As always you seem to miss the key argument or you merely divert from it. Yes nobody denies businesses want to make money, but there are different models here which will affect what we receive as consumers. As the previous poster has stated, the reason why TERRiA want to have a role is to ensure all players, regardless who they are will have access to the network on equal terms. This is not something that exists today in our current environment. How difficult is this to comprehend SJT?

    And then you dedicate two paragraphs to OPEL, somehow insinuating that they were responsible for the delays when we all know perfectly well that no business (Telstra included) is going to expose itself to potential losses until they have a rock-solid contract in place, which was what OPEL was waiting for.

    Let's keep our dreams alive and hope for the wellbeing of this country and our future generations. Let's not fall into a false sense of accepting the status quo and "just let Telstra get on with it". Let's hope whoever does win the tender (not just Telstra) that at the very minimum functional separation is a requirement of the network's delivery, and structural separation is looked upon favourably.

    Not expose itself to potential losses? /b/ -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105846)

    Other then spending about $500 in registering a company name what else did they do?

    There was a contract and that contract was signed by Opel and the former government. The contract was eventually ripped up because Opel did not meet a single one of the milestones required of them before they would start receiving payments.

    You would expect a company that has the potential to go from $0 to $ billions to at least invest in a web site to publicise itself, possible an office on a monthly lease arrangement and even produce a company logo.

    You have no idea James, they never intended for this project to proceed and no matter how hard you try to re-write history it will not happen.

    Laughable Lord Watchdog -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105849)

    "There was a contract and that contract was signed by Opel and the former government. The contract was eventually ripped up because Opel did not meet a single one of the milestones required of them before they would start receiving payments."

    /b/, I think you are the one with no idea. I think you will find that Labor tore up the Opel agreement because they like rolling in the hay with Telstra. Whether that is simply out of disgust for the Liberals beating them to the privatisation agenda or because of some secret pecuniary interest is something we are yet to find out.

    Ha Ha Lord /B/ -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105990)

    Wondered when you would show your bias attitude on this story.

    Your logic goes something like this: Any good news for any Telstra competitor is due to their great service, fantastic prices and for the good of the public. Any bad news for a Telstra competitor is because Telstra are low life scum and the Labor government will do anything to make the liberals look bad.

    The only reason you are not willing to get of your high horse is you are afraid of showing the world how much s**t has developed on the saddle.

    #7 - lol! SJT -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105846)

    #7 and counting, James!

    No one will think any less of you James, if rather than formally accusing Mr. Morgan (and Mr. Lynch) of impropriety (as you snidely inferred) you simply say - in the heat of the moment, I wrote things I know regret and apologise. That's what I would do!

    Or of course if you so desire, you could also bite the bullet and formally accuse him/them.

    Either way, it's time to grow some cocunuts my friend.

    When will people wake up? Carlos -- 05/07/08

    People talk about Telstra's high prices and their business but there appears to be little consideration of several factors:

    1. Most companies have nothing else to compete with except price, they tend to have inferior mobile coverage, inferior data networks that are engineered for cost not quality. If they do not use the "look at the cost" argument they will normally not win business.

    2. Telstra is the market focal point. Anything that Telstra does everyone else needs to act as if they are better or cheaper. If Telstra starts slashing prices everyone else will do the same just to make sure point 1 stays active. Given enough cycles either the ACCC will step in and demand Telstra drops wholesale rates / they stop acting predatory or we have another OneTel on our hands with some of these smaller players pricing themselves out of business.

    The fact that Telstra announced they profit goals prior to the tender closure date simply enabled the G9 to play the game of saying 18% is a rip off and Tierra will be cheaper. This simply reinforces the fact there will need to be compromises somewhere (and it will not be the investors in Tierra).

    3. Publicity, the Australian population has become accustomed to hearing and believing negative comments about Telstra. We are at a point where many people will believe anything and many companies prey on the gullibility of the masses. Optus and Internode are classic examples of this.

    4. Political fortitude, governments have no courage when it comes to doing what is right, they will normally follow what will help their reelection chances. Due to point 3, they have traditionally applied rules that will be detrimental to Telstra.

    5. Corporate meddling, Telstra owns several companies and they openly publicise these. There is a massive web of financial agreements between many Telstra competitors which are never disclosed, yes we all know Singtel owns Optus but they also have financial relationships with over 2 dozen so called competitors. Telecom NZ owns AAPT & Powertel which has business interests in Macquarie Telecom. The list is so convoluted that even professionals in the industry find it hard to keep track off. These 'competitors' have been known to bid against each other for business while covertly sharing details about their bids to ensure one of the wins instead of Telstra or one of their true competitors.

    5. Buying business, these companies have often bought business to improve their client bases or to simply snag a few high profile clients. If you are unaware of what I mean, buying business is the act of supplying a service at an unsustainable price to selected clients so other orginisations want to become your client (albeit at a much higher price). If Telstra was to do this the ACCC would be all over Telstra so quickly we would all hear a sonic boom.

    This industry is a tough industry, some companies have advantages that others may not but do not fall for the hype that Telstra has all of the advantages and the market is skewed in their favor. If anything Telstra is burdened by so much red tape and political / competitive policies that the playing field has been shifted in everyone else's favor except theirs.

    Do you mean Terria? Anonymous -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105843)

    Can't spell

    Tierra! Carlos -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105847)

    It is a 20 year old computer simulation that modifies and self replicates itself. Depending on who you talk to it was classified as a form of artificial life whereas it could also be classified as a virus.

    That reminds me of them, well chosen name!!!

    Tierra indeed! Anonymous -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105851)

    How apt Carlos - you're a legend!

    LOL "Tierra" gary -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105873)

    LOL...good one!!

    Smarty pants Anonymous. Sydney Lawrence -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105847)

    Live and learn Mr No Name it is TERRiA.

    Wrong Sydney Lord Watchdog -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105857)

    It's "Terria" because that is the way the logo has been designed.

    I refer you to the following website for verification purposes.

    http://www.terria.com.au/

    Tierra is a more suitable name /B/ -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105991)

    It's good to see that they have at least invested $10 a month to create a single page web site with an e-mail link.

    That's $10 a month more then Opel ever spent.

    In excess of $15 million James Bell -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106002)

    It would appear your information is limited to the verbal diarrhea of Phil Burgess

    http://news.smh.com.au/business/singtel-futuris-lose-on-opel-contract-20080402-2365.html

    Opel had a website too for the record

    OPEL - lol! SJT -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106009)

    Still crying over spilt milk. Never mind!

    But thanks for the link, you're actually getting the hang of it, although the link has no substance and is totally irrelevent to this topic. But point for trying sonny!

    To be fair now, OPEL did have one thing going for them - Elders! A much respected good old fashioned country company. Although following the OPEL signing many Elders execs resigned (in disgust maybe)?

    As such, without the Elders association, TERRiA has absolutely nothing going for them - lol!

    Yes, I'm sure OPEL did have a website, but no one probably bothered to do anything to it for 9 months - sound familiar? - lol!

    lol Substance James Bell -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106014)

    Substance hey? You're one to talk with your Telstra slideshow which even Telstra admits may not be correct ;)

    LOL indeed! SJT -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106015)

    What sort of lame reply was that - you're becoming jaded and have an OPEL-esque defeatist tone about you, my friend

    Also you never replied to my reality comment above - don't tell me reality has actually dawned on you and you finally see how naive you've been to believe the T4 BS - lol!

    Not worth responding to James Bell -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106017)

    The only reality that has "dawned on me" is that certain posts are simply not worth responding to... such as the one you are referring to where you have alluded to something as being factual when it clearly is not the case. You are trying to compare a document which even Telstra acknowledge may not be accurate vs two legislative outcomes by independent, non-profit bodies who exist only to protect consumers. No further efforts are required from my part as you've already made yourself look like the fool.

    Selective responses For Whom the Bell Tolls -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106039)

    James, the only posts you consider as not worth responding to are the ones that can not be answered by a smart a** comment, a link from your selective bias list, a convoluted confusing comment or by personal attacks. I am happy to respond to every one of your posts even if it is to stoop to your low standard by writing something that makes no sense and attacks you instead of focusing on the story.

    LIKE THIS REPLY...

    Have I hit a nerve? James Bell -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106046)

    To Whom the Bell Tolls,

    I believe I have welcomed you on at least two other occasions to point me in the direction of an argument where you believe I should have responded. And I'm not talking about ridiculous examples like above where STJ cannot substantiate his "leeching" claim, but legitimate arguments which warrant a response. I'm reasonably confident you won't find one, but if you do my apologies for not having had the time to attend to it.

    And since when is posting links to government websites and independent statutory authorities being selectively biased?

    You professional For Whom the Bell Tolls -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106071)

    James Bell. You earn your income by attacking Telstra. For someone who will spends most of your waking hours on this site (and others) attacking Telstra I am not surprised you run out of time and can not reply to every reply to your comments.

    The government web sites you refer to are not selectively bias, it is you. There are some sites and reporters that also openly against Telstra any you constantly refer to them but to trawl through thousands of pages of government & industry sites just to make reference to a small number of selected comments is a farce.

    Fool - lol! SJT -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106039)

    FYI James.

    "Selective responses" was NOT from me (in case you thought it was)!

    So obviously I am not the only one who recognises your complete rot and ridiculous childish hatred of Telstra for what it is. Also, I don't see any of your cronies supporting you and your twisted views, excuses and total lack of substance (although what's the bet they magically start to appear) - lol.

    My friend you have proven once and for all what an absolute disgrace you are, if the best you can come up with in answer to my comments is to describe me as a fool.

    I think it's time for you (if you can actually grow some marbles first) to do the honourable thing, for once, and apologise to Mr. Morgan and Lynch. Then (like hOPELess before you) bow out "disgracefully".

    After all i'm sure the village must be missing their entertainment!

    Need a tissue? James Bell -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106057)

    Ok so let me get this straight.. you'd like me to apologise to Graham Lynch because I disagree with his views on separation, and to apologise to a biased consultant because he's.. biased?

    I regret if you have taken offence to me saying that you've made yourself look like a fool (not that you are one) because you're unable to substantiate your claim that Telstra competitors are receiving ULLS rates at below cost. Don't worry SJT it's not your fault that you can't validate it, Telstra can't either and they run the network! Would you like a tissue?

    Yes tissue! SJT -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106076)

    Yes tissue please!

    As my eyes are watering from laughing at your perpetually mundane, T4 inspired stupidity!

    Bye for now!

    To For Whom the Bell Tolls James Bell -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106084)

    Can I have your permission not to respond to SJT's post?

    Of course James For Whom the Bell Tolls -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106098)

    You don't get paid overtime so you can go home and take a break, you can get back to you Optus / TTTT / Terria work tomorrow.

    When will people wake up? Anonymous -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105843)

    The problem in the hands of Telstra is that people are waking up.

    As a tax payer I don't want to see a blurring of the lines between what I paid for and what a private corporation paid for.

    Telstra is tasked with building and maintaining the Australian network infrastructure for us and to allow fair and equitable access to that infrastructure. That meant no favours, even to their own retail arm.

    Telstra have proven time and again that they cannot be trusted to do this. Under the newer infrastructure builds on their Fibre networks they lock out all competition. If the money to build any components of these networks comes from the public purse then where are they upholding my interests as a consumer and an investor (as a taxpayer). This behaviour is upholding the interests of private investors.

    Not fair, not equitable.

    If Telstra wish to privately build networks, with their own money and lock out competition, then that is their business.

    Telstra is not longer the innovator of years ago, the investment dollar that used to go into R&D is gone for the sakes of profits. Every innovation we see from Telstra in this day and age comes from someone else, somewhere else. I no longer see the value of Telstra as our national infrastructure manager in the wholesale space as they no longer care about what the infrastructure was put there for. That would be the people of this country.

    Just go back to sleep. Anonymous -- 05/07/08 (in reply to #320105860)

    BHP doesn't make steel for Rio. Holden doesn't make cars for Ford and I'm sure you don't let your competitor use your equipment. Either does Telstra (with newer investments) and why should they/you?

    But by your strange gauge of ethics, you are all not fair and equitable.

    nice analogy xBeanie -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105877)

    Holden and Ford dont make the roads.

    re: nice analogy yBeanie -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105919)

    as of about a dozen years ago our taxes stopped paying for the copper in the ground. It is now the responsibility of the private enterprise to maintain that infrastructure.

    Just go back a step Anonymous -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105877)

    I stated that I don't care if Telstra invest their money and maintain a stranglehold on their infrastructure. The problem is that not all of their infrastructure is theirs. It's held and maintained in trust for the country.

    Fair and Equitable is with relation to public assets and public money.

    Infrastructure? Anonymous -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105923)

    All the infrastructure is Telstra's!

    Brain washed!!!! Anonymous -- 13/07/08 (in reply to #320105843)

    Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed Brainwashed

    James yes or no please. Sydney Lawrence -- 05/07/08

    James Bell two questions for you.

    1. If other than Telstra are chosen for the NBN build do you agree with their request that no competition to be allowed thereby making them a monopoly and denying the Australian people any new technology that may be developed in future years.

    2. If other than Telstra are chosen to build the NBN and Telstra, in the spirit of true competition, decide to build an opposing system to give the Australian public a choice of supplier, would you support Telstra's right to do this?

    I have asked these questions before but have never received a "yes or "no" answer.

    yes or no please Anonymous -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105859)

    1. Yes, the government will ensure whoever wins the tender has the necessary time to establish the network free of competition. It will be in the Govenrments interest to ensur it's NBN Builder does not fail.

    2. Telstra wont lay a competing wired network without government subsidies; they had plenty of opportunity to do so upto now, with more favourable conditions then those they will face if they lose the NBN bid.
    True competition to the NBN will only come if delivered by a different medium. Telsta already has a competitor to the NBN should it fail to win the contract to build it. I reckon we will see their wireless prices plummet should this be the case.

    I await, James Bell. Sydney Lawrence -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105897)

    Anonymous I am surprised that you so openly admit, by your answer to question 1, that you accept that the builder of the NBN should be a monopoly. You demolish years of argument and calls for competition by Telstra opponents.

    Your answer to question 2 is a riddle and is incomprehensible to me as to your meaning. I retain the hope of an answer to my two questions from James Bell in the near future.

    The simple answers are hardest for (accused paid?) antagonists! SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105903)

    Sydney, by making it a simple yes/no, you have inturn made it impossible for these antagonists to cloud the issue with their ridiculous BS and thus you will never get a basic yes/no answer from such people.

    Unfortunately getting Mr. Bell to give such a straight forward answer, is like asking Mr. Forman why he believes 2 + 2 = 3 (or on the other hand somtimes 5, but never 4) when Telstra clearly says the answer = 4!

    He will of course argue that the answer depends upon the ACCC, government, competition, competition, competition, structural separation, ULL/LSS, monopoly, 800lb gorilla, what is happening abroad etc.

    So you see Sydney, it's not quite that straight forward for some (accused) paid antagonists to ascertain, or rather to actually admit, what 2 + 2 actually equals.

    1. Yes & 2. No James Bell -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105907)

    Yes Sydney, SJT has somewhat summed up (minus the drivel) my thoughts on your questions , although essentially you are really only asking one question aren't you?

    I personally am uncomfortable with overbuilding infrastructure as it's a waste of capital resources and in the correct environment it shouldn't be necessary. Creating two fixed National Broadband Networks has the potential to severely backfire, and it will not only impact the companies that build them. Using HFC as an example, if there weren't two competing networks then it's very likely that more of our cities and suburbs would have been cabled instead of only Sydney, Melbourne and small parts of Brisbane.

    So if you're after closed answers at this point in time I'd say 1. Yes (if there's an open & competitive environment for all players) and 2. No (if there's an open & competitive environment for all players)

    LOL SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105931)

    1. Yes - IF

    2. No - IF

    I rest my case!

    Tough competition. Sydney Lawrence -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105937)

    O.K. James looks like that's all I am going to get but thanks anyway. I think we all understand the complexities of Senator Conroy's world and the sooner he gets this thing going the better it will be for all.

    James, I do not agree with your invest and overbuild objection and I think that for full and open competition, companies should be allowed to consider all options, and if they are thought to be feasible in the provision of profits for owners and helpful for consumers should be allowed.

    Really you can't restrict competition without destroying it.

    Fair review Lord Watchdog -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105907)

    SJT: The reason you and Mr Lawrence will not get a yes or no answer is because you two don't understand the meaning of the world "monopoly". Terria comprises the combined resources of nine companies that compete with Telstra and other companies still.

    If Telstra is allowed to construct the FTTN unilaterally and without any oversight from the ACCC then we will see a situation where there is no access for any other ISP with fair pricing or simply no access what-so-ever. This is a monopoly situation.

    The same can not be said of Terria because, at worst, under the conditions I described above you will have nine choices when you go to sign up. That is not a monopoly no matter which way you look at it.

    That said, I doubt the ACCC will allow Telstra or Terria to block wholesale access.

    9 or 1, it's still a monopoly /B/ -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105992)

    You would be happy to allow 9 companies act as one to monopolise the infrastructure. Having these 9 share confidential information between them would give them an even stronger monopolistic capability. They can actually give an impression of competition when together these 9 would work together to destroy the other competitors.

    Once again using your logic: If Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia and Google got together to destroy all competition this would not be classified as a monopoly.

    Stop pretending your opinion is not based on your complete and utter hatred for Telstra.

    "True Competition" Anonymous -- 11/07/08 (in reply to #320106001)

    What we need for the new NBN is "True competition". Not the over regulated stuff OPTUS has come to love under the previous Government. Separating Telstra would only be beneficial to Singtel/Optus and would discourage investment and hinder the building of this new NBN. Ultimately this will harm all Australians. Telstra has been quoted as saying the new network will be "open access" so I fail to see why they Singtel/Optus are scared of "True Competition"

    Monopoly - do not pass go and do not collect $200, LW! SJT -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105992)

    Farex online dictionary: Monopoly - "exclusive possession or control".

    400ISP's doesn't equal exclusive control! An ACCC regulated PSTN with cheap access for all, whilst the incumbent is liable for all repairs, doesn't equal exclusive control. Don't you keep telling us that investment is occurring from Telstra's competitors? You can't have it both ways, they either are or aren't? So where's this "exclusive possession/control/monopoly"? You even tell us yourself that you are with an ISP, which you believe superior and cheaper - so monopoly? Telstra do not have exclusive possession or control over you, do they? Obviously you do not understand the true meaning of monopoly, only the T4, trumped up, Telstra hating version - lol!

    You know, I was at my local Stocklands the other day and within we have 1 supermarket Coles. 1. Newsagent. 1. Butcher. 1. Fish monger. 1 Fruit shop. 2. Budget type stores. An Athletes Foot. Kmart, Target. Etc! But guess what? Within 100m of each other we have Telstra, Optus, Vodafone, Strictly, Tandy and another whose name just slips my mind (plus Kmart). Then up the other end we have Allphones, Dick Smith (plus Target) all flogging mobiles! So monopoly!

    Also a consortium is one! Regardless of whether there are only 2 partners or many. They are one. Although I see they are all squabbling amongst themselves - lol! So let's trust them with the build!

    http://business.theage.com.au/consortium-telcos-at-odds-over-national-network-broadband-bid-20080706-32pb.html

    Anyway, why don't you tell us about your thoughts on the actual topic - structural separation? I'd be most interested to hear them!

    Sad, so sad. Lord Watchdog -- 09/07/08 (in reply to #320106008)

    I typed up a huge speech in reply to your drivel SJT but then I thought to myself "why bother" - one can tell a fool what to do but one can't educate an idiot so I am not going to bother wasting time trying. To reply specifically to each aspect of the crap you speak is to give you the opportunity to keep arguing just for the sake of it.

    Your whole post is a litany of hyperbole.

    LMFAO - amateur! SJT -- 09/07/08 (in reply to #320106213)

    Why thank you for sharing that with us!

    Yes one can tell a fool (oh look, I am corresponding with one now - how ironic). But guess what? I actually agree with you - one can't educate an idiot!

    But don't fear we wont give up on you that easily, there's still hope for you yet!

    In the meantime: -

    Just go back to your amateur little business, run by your amateur little ISP and live your amateur little life, in your amateur little world.

    Amateur.

    Wow how about that, I can be nasty too!

    Amateur what? Lord Watchdog -- 14/07/08 (in reply to #320106230)

    What business?

    By the way, since issues relating to competition and return on investment have been discussed I will add a little substance about Telstra - late mail on iPhone plans: Telstra's $80 plan comes with $70 worth of calls and a 5MB data download allowance. Optus' $79 plan comes with $770 worth of calls and a 700MB download allowance.

    If that isn't an attempt by Telstra at self-preservation as far as ROI is concerned then I don't know what is. Thank Christ there are lots of little amateur ISPs around giving far greater value for money to their customers than Telstra ever could.

    Selective Anonymous -- 14/07/08 (in reply to #320106710)

    I could pull out a small number of facts to make the others look bad.

    How about this:

    8GB Model - Optus minimum spend $960, Telstra $999, Vodaphone $1,845.

    16GB Model - Optus minimum spend $4,296, Telstra $2,400, Vodaphone $4,056.

    Connection fees and per minute charges are lowest with Telstra.

    To rephrase your last sentence:

    Thank Christ there are lots of little amateur ISPs around cherry picking products and services allowing them to offer cheaper prices while leaving the low margin and high maintenance products to Telstra to deal with.

    Very selective Lord Watchdog -- 16/07/08 (in reply to #320106759)

    And who would honestly stick to a minimum spend when they are offered a lousy 5MB monthly data allowance? Don't flatter yourself simply because you beat me on such a weak point. The FACT remains that if one plans to use the iPhone to its potential then clearly 5MB will not be enough. Some of my e-mails weigh more than 3MB. If I download just two of such e-mails then I am already into extra time and coughing up a MAXIMUM SPEND to Telstra.

    All of this is hypothetical of course. I think the iPhone sucks and I agree with wide-ranging sentiment that HTC make a better product. That said, I still think it is necessary to expose Telstra for what they have become in the last five years or so - a greedy corporate entity with a self-made licence to print money.

    Regarding your claim that Telstra is left to pay for the maintenance of their infrstructure - that is a load of bull. That is paid for, at least in part, by the humble taxpayer in accordance with USO legislation and also from part of the funding Telstra receives from its wholesale customers.

    Fell for it again Lord guarddog -- 16/07/08 (in reply to #320106934)

    Like most stupid dogs out there show him a bone and he will bite.

    I use a third party e-mail application on my PDA and it works wonderfully and all e-mail data is included in the e-mail package's plan. We were talking about a PDA here were we not? If you get a data card then you would have to be stupid to choose a small plan for a device designed to go into a computer and carry lots and lots of traffic. But then again I am directing this to you Lord Watchdog.

    As for the USO and part funding from wholesale customers. The USO was actually taken over by Optus many years ago after convincing the government of the day that they could manage it. They took it over, very quickly realised that they could not turn a profit from it and walked away. Any reasonable government would have forced them to continue maintaining the USO until it would be put out to tender 5 years later but they didn't, they simply forced Telstra to take it back.

    Optus and co have a choice about offering services to the bush but they don't, Optus has deliberately told clients to move back to Telstra because they do not wish to service regional Australia. This means Telstra do not get both the wholesale income and the USO in the vast majority of cases as you imply.

    In other words they are regulated to wholesale services at a price that is close to making a loss for the orginisation and then is forced to maintain regional services via the USO which is a loss making exercise.

    How does this make them "a greedy corporate entity with a self-made licence to print money"?

    I challenge you to swap the name Telstra and Optus (or another company if you wish) in every news story for the next month and see if you are able to have the same opinions afterward. The first thing you would notice is the obvious bias by certain paid writers against Telstra.

    No need to swap names Lord Watchdog -- 17/07/08 (in reply to #320106996)

    "Optus and co have a choice about offering services to the bush but they don't, Optus has deliberately told clients to move back to Telstra because they do not wish to service regional Australia. This means Telstra do not get both the wholesale income and the USO in the vast majority of cases as you imply.'

    Ahh Hem... Every ISP has a choice of whether to offer services to the bush or not, including Telstra. They've proven this with their flat refusal (until now) to be the first cab off the rank with ADSL2. Whilst this 'choice' was made in the capital cities too, it still shows that the big tough and mighty Telstra can still get away with behaving like morons.

    "The first thing you would notice is the obvious bias by certain paid writers against Telstra."

    Be that as it may - some people might get paid to take the mickey but I don't. I base my opinions on previous experience. At some time in the past I was content being a Telstra customer. At this point in time I wouldn't entertain the thought of buying products off them. That may change in the future but that looks unlikely with their current attitudes. Telstra rank with the likes of Google and Ebay - get big on the promise of good intentions and then when they think they have the market sewn up they treat the customer base like piper's pit.

    The only people here that are pro-Telstra are Telstra shareholders and Telstra staff. Anyone else would be just plain daft to think Telstra is anything but completely arrogant and self-protecting.

    Load of B.S. Anonymous -- 17/07/08 (in reply to #320107046)

    Lord you have interests outside a love for this country, stop denying it.

    Telstra is the only company that MUST provide a minimum service (256Kbps) to all locations within the country, ADSL2+ is far and away much higher then this and they had a choice just like any other company so stop twisting the truth.

    Next thing will be you pulling out the USO argument and the world knows that the USO funding does not cover the true costs to deliver this across the country, give it to Optus and see what they will do with the USO. OH hang on that has been done, they saw there was no profit to be made and gave it back.

    Surprised?? Jackey J -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105903)

    Why would you be surprised, I dont have an agenda? The government would be crazy not to offer some sort of action to protect their $4.7 + Billion investment, no matter who wins (Telstra, etc....) The type of protection and the length will be negotiated during the contract tender..

    Didnt realise the 2nd para would be so hard to understand, I guess thats why there was a request for simple 'yes or no' answers.

    Even if there is no granted monopoly period, should Telstra lose, they wont build a wired network to compete with an opposition that will have $4.7 + Billion warchest supplied by the Government. Legal action will be their reply.

    Competition to wired (copper/fibre) NBN will only come from a different medium (BPL, Wireless etc). Telstra already has a capable wireless network capable of causing harm to the NBN should they drop their expensive data rates.

    Two national NBN infrastrutures? Anonymous -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105859)

    God help us if we start replicating infrastructure in Oz, its too big and only has 20M people to share the costs.
    Its about as crazey as someone building a competing rail line between Melb and Syd. Would you seriously invest money in a parallel rail link and expect any return?

    All competition allowed please. Sydney Lawrence -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106006)

    Anonymous do you understand what competition in a free enterprise competitive capitalistic system is?

    Obviously you don't. If any company wants to provide finance to build a project to competitively challenge another they must be allowed. Naturally they would not do it if they did not consider it to have some chance of success

    That's the way competitive business works and must be allowed to work otherwise we are creating monopolies. We are awake to your scheme Anon, your plan is to create a monopoly of your own under the guise of competition. Ha Ha, I don't think our Government will fall for that one.

    Please tell me Sydney Brock Stevens -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320106007)

    Sydney you know I generally support you and still do but please tell me one thing...

    If Terria were to win and roll out a network, do you really think Telstra will bother to put up $$$ and roll out their own.

    I'm all for competition but am not sure it would be a smart decision on Telstras behalf...

    Thant said, we all know at the end of the day Telstra will most likely win the contract anyway, odds are against anyone else

    I already have many friends Anonymous -- 06/07/08

    Now that it has become common knowledge that ADSL can coexist with FTTN. Does this government have any idea of the backlash it will be receiving from people like myself that will be forced to pay more for FTTN, when we are very happy with the ADSL services that we are currently receiving. Can the government provide assurance that we will still be able to receive the same services (ie prioritization of VoIP traffic) that we are enjoying now. As it would be in the best interest of a structurally separated company to provide prioritization of service traffic, but not for a non-separated company that has a competing service.

    I'm guessing that the vast majority of people who live in the cities are happy with their current broadband speeds.
    To you I ask: Please write to your member in parliament requesting assurances that you will not be paying more internet access after FTTN is installed. For the people who live in the country, I would be asking why is a large portion of 4.7 billion being spent on city people who do not want FTTN.

    For those interested, I work for the government and have discovered that all my colleagues have a very good understating of the FTTN proposals. They all are very passionate about the amount they pay for broadband and are looking to this government to make the situation better by structual separation.

    "True Competition" steve -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105896)

    A very short sighted approach. Ultimately fibre should be installed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What we need for the new NBN is "True competition". Not the over regulated stuff OPTUS has come to love under the previous Government. Separating Telstra would only be beneficial to Singtel/Optus and would discourage investment and hinder the building of this new NBN. Ultimately this will harm all Australians. Telstra has been quoted as saying the new network will be "open access" so I fail to see why they Singtel/Optus are scared of "True Competition"

    Work for government - wanting separation? SJT -- 06/07/08 (in reply to #320105896)

    Anon. tut tut.

    You're not suggesting that by "working for the government" you and your colleagues have "insider information" that Telstra will win FTTN, since you are outwardly promoting separation, are you?

    After all, if your "insider information" was that TERRiA had the upper hand you wouldn't need to promote SS of Telstra would you?

    I find your approach most inappropriate!

    A different opinion. Anonymous -- 07/07/08

    Every time zdnet writes anything about Telstra or NBN all these nuts jump on and write the same stuff either for or against Telstra as though these are the only 2 positions you can have.

    As far as I am concerned it is insane for any government to give billions of dollars in cash and tens of billions in competitive advantage and regulatory protection to any company.
    Especially considering the rapid changes in technology that will likely make this all moot within 5 years.

    Leave the cash in the future fund and use the education budget instead to extend Arpanet over time by purchasing Gigabit Fibre loops and backhaul to every public school in Australia and furnish them with wifi hotspots.

    If home broadband users want better speeds then they should pay the price or wait for the technology to improve and come down in price.

    Finally if this boondoggle does go ahead I would prefer Telstra not run it due to their long term practice of massive overcharging for tiny download caps.

    Anti -Telstra nut Anonymous -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105976)

    So you're obviously an anti-Telstra nut then!

    FTTN all the WAY!! Anonymous -- 07/07/08 (in reply to #320105978)

    Too late!! If Australia is to go ahead as Mr Rudd has eluded to, then the only solution must be FTTN!!

    ISP's like internode will be the only ones benefiting from holding back progress

    If only Lord Watchdog -- 09/07/08 (in reply to #320105978)

    "Finally if this boondoggle does go ahead I would prefer Telstra not run it due to their long term practice of massive overcharging for tiny download caps."

    If only for the above reason, so am I. Shame that the pro-Telstra sheep never have anything constructive to say.

    Yeh Sure Dumb Dog -- 09/07/08 (in reply to #320106214)

    For someone who talks about quality and claims to know how to run a quality business why is it all you can talk about is cost?

    Dumb arse Lord Watchdog -- 14/07/08 (in reply to #320106218)

    I often talk about far more than cost. In fact I am more likely to raise the subject of value for money than the actual amount of money charged.

    For a given amount of money I expect service, support, reliability and the specifications that I have been promised at the time of sign-up. There are plenty of ISPs that rarely offer any of that and Telstra is but one of them.

    Many are called but few are chosen. Sydney Lawrence -- 08/07/08

    Brock Stevens thank you for your excellent question which is serious and needs thoughtful reply.

    Brock I believe that the Telstra opponents are playing a devious game and that in reality they have no desire or capability to build the NBN Network. Their hope, and plan, is to play a spoiling game and obtain any advantage (such a Telstra break-up) they can from their actions.

    I do not believe that in reality (eg TERRiA) could obtain the finance required for the NBN build. Who in their right mind, in the current unstable world monetary situation, would lend such vasts sums when they are told that the return on the investment would be small?

    Concerning a competitive overbuild Brock, and I do not know if you will agree with me here, I think that the best option for Telstra may be to withdraw for the NBN Tender and simply compete with whatever those inclined produce.

    I am sure that if this situation developed Telstra has the financial and technological ability to successfully compete with whoever did build the NBN and by their supply of superior products and services would prove disaster for their competitors.

    It is a fact that Telstra opponents will try to have competition to them banned, and in the process make themselves a monopoly, something surely even the anti Telstra ACCC could no allow. I say let competition rule and let the Australian people decide who survives.

    Really don't get it Davo -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106061)

    Like others have commented, I really don't get this argument. If you have concerns about the serious structural issues for telecoms in this country you are branded anti-Telstra. When did this come about? Telstra is just a listed company, same as Optus, BT, Verizon, so why this evangelical pitch for Telstra?

    Surely the infrastructure question is a national issue independent of any private company's interests?

    Besides, whoever wins the NBN contract will likely use the same resources to roll out the network. The only difference will be who does the billing. Why don't they just award it to Leightons and be done with it.

    Really don't get it Pt2 Anonymous -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106096)

    Like others have commented, I really don't get this argument. If you have concerns about the serious structural issues for telecoms in this country you are branded a TELSTRA FANBOI. When did this come about? OPTUS is just a listed company, same as Telstra, BT, Verizon, so why this evangelical pitch AGAINST Telstra?

    Surely the infrastructure question is a national issue independent of any private company's interests?

    See if you take off your rose coloured glasses Davo, it actually works both ways! So you are actually part of the problem!

    Leightons aren't that silly! SJT -- 08/07/08 (in reply to #320106096)

    You actually bring up an interesting point about Leightons, davo.

    The likes of Leightons can proabaly see what a waste of time, effort and shareholder resourses as well as being a pain in the butt, the NBN is, even with $4.7b of govermental assistance!

    Why would they even want to invest in: -

    1. Such a high risk investment. New technologies could sooner rather than later, equate to obsolesence.
    2. Immense Cap Ex required (particularly in the current worldwide economic downturn).
    3. Having to deal with meddling, vote hungry governments(of either political persuasion - both federal and worse, the self centred states).
    4. Investing in a most highly regulated sector (for infrastructure owners). Therefore probably having your prices adjudicated externally.
    5. Questionable return for such an immense cost.
    6. Competitors dictating terms of your proposal for their own benefit.
    7. Competitors dictating the structure of YOUR company, for their own benefit.

    And the list goes on.

    That's just a few reasons amongst many more, of why the likes of Leightons wouldn't touch this with a 40ft barge pole, when they can invest in say China and the US, where they would welcome someone with $b's to offer........

    Like, say, Telstra - lol!

Add your opinion

Latest Videos

Sponsored content

Power Centre - Content from our premier sponsors

Blogs

  • Brad Howarth The key Topik is always money
    One of the big problems of the internet is that is practically impossible to keep up-to-date on preferred topics. You can limit your sources, but this can mean missing a lot of valuable data.
  • Array Do we need the legislative blackmail?
    Virtually everyone in the telecommunications industry has their say in the Senate Standing Committee's public hearing into the pending legislation to split up Telstra, in this week's Twisted Wire podcast.
  • Array Give Tax a break for a Change
    Considering the circumstances the Australian Taxation Office's (ATO) Change Program has been operating in over the last few years, it really hasn't been going too badly.
  • More blogs »

Tags

Back to top

Featured