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Tanner: Telstra split not a Labor back flip

Despite icing a 2002 plan to pursue Telstra's structural separation due to concerns Labor had for its private shareholders, Minister for Finance Lindsay Tanner today said its current position was no different.

Razor: Gershon and Tanner

Sir Peter Gershon and Lindsay Tanner.
(Credit: Brian Hartigan)

"Where, in effect, the government has landed in its initial position on Telstra ... over the past few months is actually very similar to what it was back then," Tanner said today, responding to a question by ZDNet.com.au at the launch of Telstra's The Government Productivity Report.

"Which is to say to Telstra: 'If you do not wish to fully separate into two companies — we are not proposing to legislate to [fully separate]; we are not proposing to force separation. We are saying, 'If you do not do that, then we want to head down the path of functional separation', which is in effect the position that we adopted in 2003."

"In 2002 I put out a discussion paper which canvassed a half a dozen structural reform options, perhaps the most radical of which was a formal break-up of Telstra," Tanner said.

By 2003 Tanner, then the shadow Communications Minister, was copping flack from Liberal Senator Richard Alston over Labor's "humiliating back down" on the issue. The report Tanner had commissioned was Separating Telstra: Protecting the Interests of Minority Shareholders.

Referring to the report, Tanner said, "It concluded that it would take a very long time, and would face all kinds of complex issues, and frankly would be too hard." Tanner said at the time that "minority private shareholding in Telstra" made it "an inappropriate strategy for reforming Telstra".

He said structural separation was the most "extreme" form it proposed and that the government's current position in relation to Telstra is "very similar" to what it was then.

However, one month ago at the announcement of the current telecommunications reform package, Minister for Communications Stephen Conroy said it was the government's "clear desire for Telstra to structurally separate".

A key threat to Telstra in its current proposal is barring the telco from future wireless spectrum auctions, which may prevent Telstra from upgrading its highly-prized Next G network to 4G or LTE technologies, unless it separates voluntarily.

But Tanner went on to say that the "underlying thinking" in Conroy's current approach was similar to his. "The core objective remains exactly the same: that we have world class broadband, universally available, and that access to the network is competitive and open and that service providers can compete on equal terms."

Tanner and Conroy are the two ministers that must approve funding in order for the NBN Co to acquire network assets. While the legislation is being battled out in Canberra, the NBN Co is believed to be in ongoing negotiations with Telstra over how it will vend in its assets such as ducts, pits, poles, and its copper network.

The finance minister went on to blame the Howard Government for creating a policy framework that encouraged Telstra to "game the system", noting that telecommunications lawyers were "cleaning up" because of it.

"They created a structure which had all the incentives for Telstra to dedicate as much of its enterprise, activity and innovation, to gaming the system... We are keen to get away from that kind of world," he said.

"Telstra ... inevitably have different perspectives to us on some of these issues — that's understandable — but ultimately they are the same kinds of objectives, which is to bring Australia into that new world of possibility, that maximises Telstra's competitiveness, innovation and capacity to earn money for their shareholders — well, we're neutral on those things — we want all telcos to do that."

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Talkback 35 comments

    I don't understand. Anonymous -- 23/10/09

    "Which is to say to Telstra: 'If you do not wish to fully separate into two companies � we are not proposing to legislate to [fully separate]; we are not proposing to force separation. We are saying, 'If you do not do that, then we want to head down the path of functional separation', which is in effect the position that we adopted in 2003."

    Could someone please translate these sentences to English for me plz?

    He took the tack, that bullsh!t baffles brains Vasso Massonic -- 23/10/09 (in reply to #320389398)

    Don't be confused and keep your brain.

    Fair Go or Fight. Anonymous -- 23/10/09 (in reply to #320389426)

    As a Telstra Shareholder, if the Company and the Government can't come to a consensus decision. acceptable to all concerned, I call on the Telstra Shareholders to commence a Class Action against the Government based on the fact that the Rudd Government said publicly that they had no intention of splitting Telstra.

    @fair go Anonymous -- 23/10/09 (in reply to #320389436)

    yeah yeah and lets do another for the never ever gst, too.

    @fair go Anonymous -- 23/10/09 (in reply to #320389440)

    Fine you start your own GST caper I'll get a group together and go in hard for compensation for the Rudd blackmail and damage of Telstra.

    @@fair go RS -- 23/10/09 (in reply to #320389472)

    Had Sen. Conroy said, we are going to give the NBN to Telstra to do with as they wish and the share price doubled overnight, would you be complaining about the governments' involvement?

    No.

    Governmental decisions impact upon companies and their share price all the time. This time they impacted upon yours.

    But as has been mentioned here numerous times, regulatory changes were outlined in all 3 prospectuses!

    Maybe instead of rubbing your hands together in anticipation for those TLS shares to increase ten fold and reading the Ferrari brochure, it may have been prudent to have read the prospectuses, instead.

    Grow some balls and take the blame "you" bought TLS and knew this could happen or should have known.

    But then, off to court is the Telstra way, isn't it?

    @@fair go Anonymous -- 24/10/09 (in reply to #320389474)

    I didn't buy Telstra shares, but honestly forced Telstra separation has wider implications than just the telecommunication sector. Who would invest in Australia when the government can rob a company of its assets at will

    Class Action against the Government Anonymous -- 26/10/09 (in reply to #320389436)

    Unfortunately all politicians have legal protection from being sued for any statements they make so all parties can lie to their hearts content.

    Your sins will find you out. Sydney Lawrence -- 24/10/09

    RS you still don't get it do you.

    This is not about Telstra shares. This is about a dictatorial Government seeking to destroy competition to help an election promise (which Australia could never afford) and which should have been costed before being promised.

    Now Mr Rudd finds that to have any chance of success opponents must be banned and worse, their assets and customers must be confiscated. Naturally, RS and others like him who hope to gain from the Telstra destruction urge the Government on.

    Hopefully, as a result of present negotiations between Telstra and Government will come a conclusion that allows a happy situation to emerge for all concerned but, if this is not the case Australians should not accept a situation where a Government is allowed to ride roughshod over the Australian people.

    Much has been made of regulation warning in the Telstra prospectus but no mention was made of a forced Telstra breakup and I am sure no investor, after careful perusal of the document, imagined that the referred to warning related to a devastating and destructive tearing apart of Telstra.

    It is my belief that past and present Governments have stated that this proposed Telstra breakup was not envisioned. What other Australian company can now feel confident that they, as Telstra, will not have devastating regulation enacted against them should they have need to exercise their rights to question a vindictive Government.

    You see RS it is you who are disingenuous and greedy in your promotion of self interest, and I call on you to desist from your vile and misinterpretation of this situation, recant your ways, and become an honourable Australian citizen.

    Mr back flip RS -- 24/10/09 (in reply to #320389492)

    Sydney you are a goose and a greedy disgusting goose. You have argued from day one because of your wife's shares and no other reason.

    But only yesterday heres what you said -

    Sanity prevails. Sydney Lawrence -- 23/10/09 ..."Sensible and undeniable truthful comment from Don Argus, Mel and RS"...

    So I'm "undeniably sensibly truthful", yesterday and "just don't get it" today, Mr back flip, lol? So much for undeniable, Sydney style.

    I see you've also found a new excuse to unsuccessfully try to hide your greed. You've dropped calling other disparagers, dropped the pseudo patriotism, stopped comparing yourself to the ANZACS and Jesus and now you've grasped the "dictatorial government/blackmail angle", lol.

    This might say it better. Ode for Sydney (in the form of a limerick)...

    "There once was a greedy fool named Sydney.

    Stupidly bought Telstra shares... didn't he.

    Now prays to the gods each night

    For his worthless shares to come right

    Just $4 each... he'll sacrifice a kidney"

    Sydney Lawrence is a cleverly written ZDNET bot! Am A Boy Not A Bot -- 24/10/09 (in reply to #320389502)

    How can I not think this, when at *every* Telstra article on this site, I inevitably think: "Hmm.. wonder if that goose Sydney Lawrence has commented on this." Then lo and behold, there he is. Like clockwork, like gravity, like the twinkling of the stars. Sydney Lawrence is both the strong AND weak nuclear force keeping us glued to these Telstra articles.

    ZDNet, you are geniuses!! Way to build community, by creating these intelligent bots that unfailingly stay on topic and say the same thing over and over and over in so many different ways. You guys should be in Google!! hahahahah

    And this news just in: Telstra shareholders ARE NOT the same as the Australian public. There's a lot of you, but there's more of us.

    ROFL.....ahahahhahahahahahahahah Anonymous -- 24/10/09 (in reply to #320389509)

    i need a rest...oohhh...hahhahahahahahahah

    ROFL.....ahahahhahahahahahahahah Anonymous -- 26/10/09 (in reply to #320389513)

    You may need a rest, however you most certainly need a lobotomy.

    re rofl Anonymous -- 26/10/09 (in reply to #320389648)

    what and be like you, no thank you, telstra moron?

    @Your sins RS (not anonymous like some, eh Syd) -- 24/10/09 (in reply to #320389492)

    BTW Sydney, my initial comment was directed at "anonymous" not you.

    But you took offence on anonymous" behalf"... yes...ok, lol!

    Only a fool loses his cool. Sydney Lawrence -- 24/10/09 (in reply to #320389527)

    RS I do honestly appreciate our jousts and do believe that at times we both are capable of utterances that have merit.

    Hence my sincere referral to your Post concerning Mr Don Argus. My constant advice to you, and I believe your shortcoming, is your tendency to become exceptionally abusive.

    If possible try to emulate my balanced, objective and enlightening manner of debate and note that no matter how devilishly provoked I never lose my cool or stoop to abusive rhetoric.

    I know that you do have much knowledge to impart but your delivery and robust attitude must be refined. Please believe me when I tell you that my opinion is not one eyed but encompasses a fair go for all industry participants.

    Hello then FOOL RS -- 25/10/09 (in reply to #320389530)

    Sydney Lawrence 24/10 ..."and note that no matter how devilishly provoked I NEVER LOSE MY COOL OR STOOP TO ABUSIVE RHETORIC. I know that you do have much knowledge to impart BUT YOUR DELIVERY AND ROBUST ATTITUDE MUST BE REFINED"...

    Then later the very same day -

    Sydney Lawrence 24/10 ..."You see RS it is you who are DISINGENUOUS and GREEDY In your promotion OF SELF INTEREST, and I call on you to desist from your VILE and MISINTERPRETATION of this situation, recant your ways, and BECOME AN HONOURABLE AUSTRALIAN CITIZEN".

    So much for not losing your cool or stooping to abusive rhetoric!

    Can you ever tell the truth Sydney (simple answer - NO)!

    Maybe it's time for you and tour "ROBUST (shareytale) ATTITUDE" to become a little more "REFINED", by you not letting those shares overule your entire existence, disgraceful, greedy, L I A R..

    .................................Only a fool loses his cool. Anonymous -- 26/10/09 (in reply to #320389530)

    You surely must realize by now that you are wasting your time Sydney. You cannot communicate with a brick ! (Purposely left out the p this time)

    What about comms RS -- 26/10/09 (in reply to #320389650)

    Why are you too scared to put your name to your many comments Mike?

    Although I guess with the absolute childish idiocy, you ridiculously always conjure and your obvious lack of intelligence, I suppose it's obvious, you are simply too embarassed and rightly so.

    Also, why don't you comment on comms Ne win? You come here everyday with stupidity and never a comment on comms. Why?

    Because you have absolutely no idea have you? You're just a burned little shareholder who is bitter because you have lost so much money.

    What a shame.

    What about common sense Anonymous -- 28/10/09 (in reply to #320389665)

    Why do you use so many aliases, answer your own comments, continually throw crap, suffer from such ridiculous illusions of grandeur, and generally act like a crazed and raving lunatic. I guess the answer is obvious to any intelligent person. Unfortunately that is something you certainly are not. So I will say it once again, why don't you Get a Life , bird brain.

    Re:Your sins will find you out. Anonymous -- 26/10/09 (in reply to #320389492)

    Seems Syd is rather confused regarding the villain in his comments. It should have read:

    "This is about a dictatorial Telstra seeking to destroy competition."
    &
    "Australians should not accept a situation where Telstra is allowed to ride roughshod over the Australian people."

    Consider your verdict. Sydney Lawrence -- 26/10/09

    M'lad I rest my case.

    Rest (in peace) RS -- 26/10/09 (in reply to #320389616)

    Your typical one rule for you/Telstra another for the rest, pot and kettle case, is resting in peace not resting!

    A level playing field Anonymous -- 27/10/09

    Gentlemen, and possibly ladies, a bit of perspective seems to be required here.

    There is some truth in all that has been said about the forced separation of the Telstra entity, but consider the situation. Telstra is a private enterprise, the government long ago gave up its stake in the company. Whether this should have occured is a moot point, but it cannot be said that since the sale the services and facilities offerred have not grown many times faster than when under governent control and when the governments of the time extracted their pound of flesh from the generous income stream it generated.

    Telstra, like other telcos, invested heavily in infrastructure to support their products, even where the costs outweighed the benefits. It's called the universal obligation and it weighed more heavily on Telstra than the other telcos. Did the Vodafones and Orange and Three et al networks ever have to put in a phone booth in the back of beyond to fulfill their obligations? Did they ever have to run copper cable to a house 30 kms out of town to ensure a phone service for everyone? I don't think so, but they can take the cream of wireless and mobile phone systems without the encumberance of copper and terrestrial services to factor in. Optus has a wholesale division just like Telstra. It may be smaller and it may not compete at the same scale, but it nevertheless resells services to other carriers, including Telstra. Where is the legislation forcing Optus to separate their wholesale and retail arms and divest their share of cable TV interests?

    A level playing field for all should be the outcome, not simply whip Telstra because it is the most obvious and most influential telco in the country. If Telstra is forced to separate wholesale then let the government bid for the company and pay a fair price, and do the same for Optus and any other carrier with wholesale divisions. Then make all carriers have to offer all services equally, not just mobiles because that enjoys the greatest profit margins. When Vodafone and Orange and Three (or whoever the latest carriers after the last round of buy outs and mergers) have to provide landlines and cables and DSL services as Telstra and Optus and AAPT do, maybe the NBN will stand a chance of being successful. Right now it doesn't stand a chance in hell of being the universal godsend the government is praying for whether they split Telstra or not. Work it out - if the whole of Australia and not just the 93% who live in the coastal fringes are to have the same access to high speed broadband, would you want to pay an average cost for your Sydney or Melbourne line as for someone in Bourke or Cooper Pedy or Banana (yes, it exists). I think I'd rather stick to my old Telstra DSL at $40 a month than pay $200 or more for the government mandated super highway, thank you very much.

    It will be a level playing field thanks to Conroy Anonymous -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389707)

    All moot points, because as usual you forget the main point of why this is all occuring.

    None of the companies you mention were given an Australia wide network to profit from, apart from Telstra, which is why Telstra have to do the tasks you mention for their yearly profit bonanza.

    I'm sure if you asked Orange, Vodafone, Optus whoever would they run a 30km cable or look after phone boxes in exchange (pun intended) for a complete network, they can not only profit from themself but charge others to use, I bet they couldn't say yes quick enough.

    If it's such a burden why don't Telstra give the network to someone else or sell it cheaply to rid themselves of this terrible burden? *As if* it has been and will continue to be, until the NBN, the goose that lays the golden eggs and they know it!

    Time to stop the charade, Telstra have had it too good for too long and the party is over. About time. Goodonya Conroy!

    Propaganda and Spin. Sydney Lawrence -- 27/10/09

    Anonymous, your disjointed unsupportable litany of smoke and mirrors is childish and cannot be accepted by any Australian who understands the English language and has some knowledge of the Telstra situation.

    The Australian owners of Telstra were not "given" anything, they paid $60 billion for it. Why should Telstra give their network, or sell it cheaply as you demand, to satisfy your desire to advantage opponents who will not invest the necessary billions to compete.

    The facts are simple. Before the last election Mr Rudd promised the Australian people a FTTN network for $4.7 billion. When this promise proved unworkable, in a moment of foolish enthusiasm, he then promised a FTTP roll-out for $43 billion.

    When this latest promise was examined, Mr Rudd was told that to be a success his FTTP would need to acquire Telstra plant and equipment. Not only that the Rudd NBN would need to force transfer of Telstra's customers to it, to be viable.

    Naturally all Telstra opponents, hoping for some advantage and their eyes on the $43 billion on offer mounted a disingenuous campaign of propaganda against Telstra and in the hope to continue the freeload on the new NBN.

    Everything is for sale at a price and I would think Telstra assets are no different, but the price must be determined by Telstra in negotiation with Government and acceptable to Telstra shareholders.

    There was a Telstra before you bought, you know? Anonymous -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389715)

    Speaking of disjointed and biasedly so, I didn't say you as in investors, didn't buy Telstra Sydney. What I said was Telstra, before you bought it, was given the network and because of this they have certain obligations.

    Obligations others would be happy to take on having been "given" the network.

    So when did the giving occur steve -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389723)

    As I recall Telstra was a rename of Telecom Australia. Telecom Australia was formed when PMG was split in 1975. PMG, Telecom Australia and Telstra all had the network. So can you please advise when the giving of the network actually occured.

    1992. RS -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389734)

    I can answer that for you Steve, 1992 - Feb 1st, I believe?

    Seems like all Telstra puppets you recall incorrectly Steve. Don't believe me, then how about the...

    "High Court of Australia" - March 6 2008

    - The public switched telephone network [PSTN] which Telstra now owns (and of which the local loops form part) WAS ORIGINALLY A PUBLIC ASSET OWNED AND OPERATED AS A MONOPOLY SINCE FEDERATION BY THE COMMONWEALTH'. The Court held that the operation of Part XIC did not result in an acquisition of Telstra's property otherwise than on just terms.

    - The successive steps of corporatisation and privatisation that have led to Telstra now owning the PSTN (and the local loops that are now in issue) were steps which were accompanied by measures which gave competitors to Telstra access to the use of the assets of that network. In particular, THE TRANSFER OF THE PSTN TO TELSTRA (FROM THE AUSTRALIAN TELECOMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION) IN 1992 was preceded by the enactment of the Telecommunications Act 1991, which gave other carriers the right to interconnect their facilities to Telstra's network and to obtain access to services supplied by Telstra. Thus Telstra's bundle of rights in respect of the PSTN has always been subject to the rights of its competitors to require access to and use of the assets. The introduction of Part XIC into the TPA in 1997 merely continued the right of other participants in the telecommunications market to have access to Telstra's network .

    - IN 1992, WHEN THE ASSETS OF THE PSTN WERE VESTED IN TELSTRA, Telstra was wholly owned by the Commonwealth. As a result, the 1991 laws vesting the PSTN in Telstra and establishing a regulatory regime providing for access by Telstra's competitors to Telstra's network and services could not be laws with respect to the acquisition of property for the purposes of s 51(xxxi) because, insofar as those laws dealt with matters of property, they simply effected alterations in the property interests of one Commonwealth statutory corporation (the Australian Telecommunications Corporation) and another corporation wholly owned by the Commonwealth (as Telstra then was). {END}

    Page 5 ... http://www.ags.gov.au/publications/agspubs/legalpubs/litigationnotes/LN16.pdf

    http://www.minterellison.com/public/connect/Internet/Home/Legal+Insights/Alerts/NA-+Telstra+fails+in+its+constitutional+challenge

    It's all there Steve - Monopoly, vested to Telstra in 1992 and the rights compeitors have to access the PSTN - all as quoted from the "High Court", not by me, but I'm sure "you recall better than the courts", as do all the puppets (wrongly)!

    So can you, Sydney, Vasso etc now please again tell us about Telstra not ever being a monopoly, not being publically owned and those leeches illegally using Telstra's network?

    I do enjoy a good laugh at the old shareytales.

    re There was a Telstra before you bought, you know? Anonymous -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389723)

    Its no wonder you post as anonymous, because most of what you say is sheer nonsense. I think you simply have nothing better to do than keep on making stupid statements, and continue to berate anyone that supports Telstra.

    Dear anonymous RS -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389751)

    Berating an anonymous poster, anonymous, lol.

    Please reute the courts words above then, oh wise [sic] one!

    Dear RS Anonymous -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389753)

    Why don't you do us all a favour and just shut up RS.

    Dear Anonymous RS -- 27/10/09 (in reply to #320389820)

    Why don't you do us all a favour and comment on the High Courts facts above!

    Either that or sell your shares and leave the discussion to the non greedy, Anonymous!

    Dear RS Anonymous -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320389822)

    Why don't you do us all a favour and just shut up RS.

    Dear anonymous fool RS -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390108)

    Glad I'm getting to you Telstra puppet. I feel so much better now.

    Why not comment on comms.

    Oh that's right you have absolutely no idea about comms..or anything else do you?

    How's those TLS losses, lol?

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