SmartyHost responds to customer backlash

Web hosting provider SmartyHost has admitted mistakes in a botched data centre migration that has infuriated customers and left their Web sites inaccessible.

On Tuesday night, SmartyHost migrated several thousand sites from Primus to its new hosting provider, Optus. However a number of sites subsequently stayed offline for an extended period of time, causing the hosting company's customers to complain bitterly to ZDNet Australia over the migration.

The injured parties rejected comments by SmartyHost managing director Anoosh Manzoori that customers were at least partially to blame and raised issues with the timing and wording of an advisory issued by SmartyHost prior to the Tuesday migration.

SmartyHost today admitted the migration could have been better handled.

"We made a number of announcements prior to the migration, and have now learned that they were not comprehensive and personal enough. Also, the scale of the migration was too ambitious, we should have broken it down into more manageable chunks and we have learned many valuable lessons from this," Manzoori told ZDNet Australia today via e-mail.

"In retrospect the planning, management and implementation of this project could have been much better and we completely recognise this."

Responding to one customers' claim he did not receive an e-mail notification shortly before the migration, Manzoori said he was "absolutely sure" SmartyHost distributed the message to all customers affected by the change.

Another customer was critical of the fact that both primary and secondary domain name servers were shifted at the same time, "thus removing all visibility of domains registered on [SmartyHost's] name servers".

"We had to change both as they point to the same server," said Manzoori.

"If we changed one then we have the issue of a domain pointing to two completely different servers and configrations at the same time.

"We are upgrading from a single server model to an enterprise EMC [Storage Area Network] on clustered Dell blade servers in Optus' data centre, which has a completely different architecture. Due to the scale of our migration, this is not as simple as some may think it is."

Manzoori also addressed concerns that customer passwords were changed and databases accessed without permission during the migration.

"SmartyHost has an obligation to ensure its system is watertight at all times to prevent security risks. Operating in a shared hosting environment, the security of one customer can become an issue for others. For a variety of operational reasons it was necessary to alter the details of some accounts," he said.

"Throughout this process SmartyHost operated within the privacy guidelines set at a federal level and no customer's privacy was compromised at any time."

He conceded though that the e-mail account details of one customer, inactive at the time, were accidentally sent to some other customers.

"SmartyHost staff were alerted to the mistake immediately and rectified the situation," he said.

"The company has now put a new system in place to ensure this is never repeated in the future."

SmartyHost has also flagged plans to offer compensation to those affected by the botched migration.

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Talkback 49 comments

    Lost income?Creative 9000 -- 16/05/06 (in reply to #120134435)

    A valuable client of mine could not make a sale to his client (he sells JSA software which he developed) because the web site was down. The timing could not have been worse. The client had his credit card ready and I was horrified to learn the web site was not working when he called me about it. It took Smarty Host 7 days (yes 7 - count 'em) to rectify the problem. In the meantime, several thousand dollars of missed opportunities.

    Even if the web site was working, it would have been painful as my client was also without email! When ever someone purchases the software, he gets an email with all the relevant delivery details etc...well, he would have.

    Then there is my time. Because of the botched migration, I have spent countless hours of my time dealing with my angry clients and even more hours trying to get some sort of assistance from Smarty Host.

    Anoosh: What sort of compensation will you offer offering in instances where this has occured? Free hosting for the month? What a joke.

    Down SiteAnonymous -- 17/05/06 (in reply to #120134436)

    In response to Anooshs comments -
    > we are paid up to date - we have a number of sites with Smarty and have always been really happy with the help they have given us
    > our tech support details we up to date but unfortunately used smarty hosted emails so didnt get any message at all. To blame the customers is not on really.
    > We were due to launch our site on Sat and had 4k in adverts already running. We also had staff fly in to QLD to complete and approve our site content on Thursday.
    > Obviously we lost all of this.
    > Our site is still down and they seem to having problems in restoring it which is not surprising as I would have problems restoring it - if I had had notice of course it could have been packaged for a straight reinstall but there we go.

    Good thing is they do seem to be making an effort to get things going, hopefully they will end up with a better service. They must be in full disaster, nightmare zone right now and this will surely hit their profitability for a considerable period in the future, poor b**tards

    CompensationAnonymous -- 19/05/06 (in reply to #120134436)

    Our website is still down, its been 14 days, and tech people informed us that it was something to do with our account, which is entirely incorrect, we are paid up!! So after being informed that we would be called back "first thing" Monday, here we are waiting still, despite further calls to Smartyhost. l would dare say we are not the only ones losing money, and l doubt the free hosting will compensate for loses. A friend of mine, who is professional gambler has email hosting through Smarthost and relies on it completely...well imagine how much he lost, and he's spewing at us for recommending Smartyhost. Anoosh, you think you will retain customers, l doubt it, when it all comes down to it, l think it will hit your pocket hard, because it appears to have hit everyone elses. DON'T RULE OUT A CLASS ACTION, SMARTYHOST! So seeing that your availability management and change management plans are useless, make sure you risk management plan is in order, because you may need to manage that risk of group legal action.

    Not so SmartyHostAnonymous -- 23/05/06 (in reply to #120134625)

    When you are ready to sue let me know, I will join you.

    Spend moreAnonymous -- 22/05/06 (in reply to #120134436)

    You lost several thousand dollars in sales in 7 days? Then why the heck are you only spending $100 a year on your hosting? Stop whinging.

    SMARTYHOST IS NOT TAKING ITS CUSTOMERS SERIOUSLYAnonymous -- 31/05/09 (in reply to #120134436)

    I have been with Smartyhost for over 3 years and their service and support has been consistently poor. They like laying the blame on their problems to others such as Optus. They take days to respond to problem tickets. They treat customers like crap. This is displayed by their Mon-Fri 9 to 5 support hours. A REAL ISP offers afterhours and weekend support!
    If you are seeking a robust and caring ISP, look elsewhere as I will. I've had enough!

    So Anoosh is out of hidingAnonymous -- 16/05/06

    It has taken 7 days+ for this disgraceful company smaryhost to comeout of hiding and start admitting they are the problem, and all along they have been blaming their own customers, supposedly not paying there accounts or not updating their admin details. That has just been absolute lies and more lies. My account is paid up till Novemeber, and my admin details are perfectly valid. Yet I was NEVER notified and my website fanished! It's a disgrace SMARTYHOST it's about time you sacked all the people who did this migration/destruction! And get some real people with a brain to work for you. Or if if was you well then you should close your Useless Company down!

    Picky CustomersAnonymous -- 16/05/06

    Another customer was critical of the fact that both primary and secondary domain name servers were shifted at the same time"

    That didnt worry me at all. I am only critical of the fact our webpage went down and we didn't know about it until we wondered why we weren't getting emails for a while, our email was also down, and we couldn't contact anyone at Smartyhost to get it back up for 4 days until we eventually got a new host. Also at least a day or two of work to sort it all out and a couple of grand in lost sales. And no response to a refund of the money we just paid them for "hosting". Up until that point, our Smartyhost website was only down around once a week for a while. Maybe I am just being picky.

    smartyhostAnonymous -- 16/05/06

    I recieved details notification of the change 2 days pre migration (10th May). Not near enough time.
    On the 14th my site was semi operational. Email sent to my site did not appear in email inboxes nor did it bounce back to the sender. It simply disappeared.

    Poor service Smarts when SmartyHost don't answerPhil Brumby -- 22/05/06 (in reply to #120134443)

    Well we are all smarting from the problems that www.smartyhost.com are having.
    For me my sms gateway via web at www.smin123.com has not worked since the shift. Yes the websites visible but the service doesn't work.

    I am only a small player but the www.smartyhost.com stuff up is really hurting.

    If only they would answer call, email and voice messages we might be able to have patience with them

    But no contact is just rude.

    This is past a joke

    Phil

    rubbishAnonymous -- 16/05/06

    so zdnet is just whacking up Press releases from Smartyhost without even editing let alone rewriting or checking now?

    Over a week without email. And email not even piling up in inbox - just bouncing. Problems still not resolved. Check out the threads on the Whirlpool forums.

    The above is really lies from smartyhost

    No SupportMame du Bois -- 16/05/06

    I already have made comments in another Smarty story on this site, the one thing that I did forget to mention was that they have removed all links to their support ticket system on their site. I have only managed to access the support ticketing site from old links in my signup emails. Poor form, when the going gets tough, SmartyHost gets going - in the opposite direction!

    deleted support ticketsAnonymous -- 25/05/06 (in reply to #120134448)

    mate they deleted my lodged support tickets - but i still have the emails confirming the lodging. Still I dont expect them to do much good, smartyhost just suck bigtime and seem to have vanished

    ReallyAnonymous -- 17/05/06 (in reply to #120134455)

    If you actually read the whirlpool post on Smartyhost you would realise alot of the user's have arrived at Whirlpool after doing a search on google or the like trying to find out what's happening with there hosted service. I for one loged a help desk ticket a week ago with Smartyhost, no reply, it was only from the help of whirlpool user's that i managed to get my site back up and running Monday morning.

    Me dog?Anonymous -- 17/05/06 (in reply to #120134455)

    I belive many people joined whirlpool because to get information about what had happened, myself included.

    It has proven very useful technical resource for customers who are not getting response from nonexistent SmartyHost support, including myself.

    Well... interesting tiradeAnonymous -- 21/06/06 (in reply to #120134455)

    Sorry but I don't accept these comments. I only recently joined the WP forum because I found it while searching Google for some answers as to what I could do to resurrect my business site and sites of 2 customers. Calls and trouble tickets to SH brought zero response so I was getting desperate. I don't think that posting (twice) comments and relating my experience was whinging / unfair criticism or anything like what this idiot claims. (Wonder if its Anoosh or whatever his name is?) I agree with one part of his comments though - the legal arguments are getting silly. Look - even those with 3-4 hosting accounts have only lost a couple hundred bucks and we've learnt a valuable lesson - trust your instincts and leave a crowd like SmartyHost the second time they don't give you service & support. I'll give a guy a break - once.. after that cheerio suckers!

    its "there" not "their" you dorkAnonymous -- 15/08/08 (in reply to #120134455)

    its "there" not "their" you dork

    Dude... You're THE moron.Anonymous -- 30/01/09 (in reply to #320109827)

    If you're replying to "Mame du Bois" regarding her spelling, you're dead wrong. She correctly uses 'their', as appropriate.

    By the way, it is "it's" not "its". It's you that's the dork.

    Silent MajorityAnonymous -- 17/05/06

    Rhetoric , banter , blame , abuse . Ultimately it will be the silent majority that will determine the outcome of this issue. Yep, mom and pop ,small business type web site owners. People that dont spend all day on web forums lampooning back and forward because they are too busy trying to survive in the real world . I am not a "dog" thing and know my parentage but assure you I have contacted my "web person" to find a more stable and professional web host ASAP. This current issue with Smartyhost is the straw that has finallly broken MY back.

    Mindless comments...Anonymous -- 17/05/06

    What a sad, sorry and unoriginal comment. Whirlpool and similar sites, whilst it is true can sometimes verge on being the "current affair" of the net, also give the ordinary bloke a voice. Insipid and brainless comments like this are more of a waste of time than theirs.

    Legitimate complaintsCreative 9000 -- 17/05/06

    If you had actually followed the Whirlpool thread, you would have realised there are a lot of legitimate complaints.

    Apache ConfigurationAnonymous -- 17/05/06

    The AllowOverride of the new server only appears to only allow AuthConfig. This is a great problem for myself as I use many other features including mod_rewrite, indexing, redirects and custom error pages. If this problem cannot be rectified I will have to leave smartyhost as it is essential for the opperation of my site.

    Whirlpool forums have genuine complaintsLocomotion -- 17/05/06

    The complaints on the Whirlpool forums were legitimate, I for one have 3 domains affected by the outage, and yes I did voice my thoughts on the matter to the Whirlpool forum.
    I must say I was rather annoyed though at Adam from Jumba trying to capitalise from the whole situation, this I found discraceful. I will certainly not be using Jumba

    DisapointingAnonymous -- 17/05/06

    As the tech contact for a site for a small business that hosts with smartyhost, this has been a very disappointing experience.

    It is a shame to see the lies perpertrated by smartyhost in this matter.

    1) the only email that was sent as notification, was later followed by an email saying it was a test email and to disregard it.
    2) The original email provided username and password for a different domain
    3) The website was migrated okay (its a very simple site), but none of the email accounts were. A call to smartyhost support indicated that they were lost for good, and I should recreate the accounts from scratch. I did so.
    4) Reading whingepool, I discivered that using an IP address I could still acees the old ensim management site. This shows that the email accounts still exist on the old server. I haven't worked out if the old webmail exists though, so I can forward all affected emails to other accounts
    5) The new management software is exceptionally poor, and barely satisfcatory. ie mail quota is removed from available quota, so you can't have "no fixed quota accounts". Also can't have multiple aliases for an email.
    6) Suuport and communication is woeful. The webiste has been altered REMOVING the majority of contact details.

    SmartyHost migrationAnonymous -- 18/05/06

    Cannot agree with Smartyhost's comments that no member's privacy was at risk - I received emails with passwords etc destined for other organisations, and despite complaints to Smartyhosse have not received explanation or apology. Have also had one website (and emails) offline for a couple of weeks now - again no response from Smartyhost and certainly no offer of compensation for this disturbance.

    PrivacyPeter Bate -- 18/05/06

    "Throughout this process SmartyHost operated within the privacy guidelines set at a federal level and no customer's privacy was compromised at any time."

    Well what about the email I received from smartyhost with another sites list of email addresses and password! I then received another saying to ignore the first!

    Major privacy breachBen Giddins -- 18/05/06 (in reply to #120134535)

    I temporarily had an abuse victims website's database copied into my account - and I have the screenshots to prove it. No privacy breaches, huh?

    3 Days Warning - Poor Planning more like it!Anonymous -- 21/05/06

    So.. its always someone elses fault, the customers, the DNS resource from VeriSign, the..., rubbish..! For SmartyHost with 25,000 customers and to give customers 3 days notice of service migration without checking ALL customer details and that they were verified PRIOR to migration is inexcusable.
    3 days is simply NOT enough time, 3 weeks minimum in my book would be borderline to confirm customer details, looks like they planned this project exceptionally well, not. And because of this sloppy planning, WebCentral will reap the rewards. SmartyHost? I think not, I have another name for them and you can use your imagination of what that might be.

    DNS on same server?Anonymous -- 22/05/06

    Smartyhost claim the primary and secondary DNS server IP's pointed to the same server?!?!

    These are supposed to be seperate boxes, on different networks, that's why we have primary, secondary, etc servers in case one fails!

    Not So SmartyhostAnonymous -- 23/05/06

    We are in the computer industry as well. Our domain has been down for 10 days now. Because we swapped isp's around the same time we thought it was something to do with that. When we eventually got through to SmartyHost, we were told we had a corruppted domain, we were told that there would be some slight delays in the repair of the account due to a server change-over. (9 days ago)We were also told if we upgraded our service (which we did) it would be rectified within 24 hours. To add insult to injury we were not told that they changed all of our email settings of which we still have not recieved. We have lost thousands of dollars in lost business. End result no website or email for ten days SmartyHost not answering calls. We are only one of thousands. Its a total disgrace.

    Smarty host failureGraeme Kinny -- 23/05/06

    I am certain no notification was sent to me regarding changes. I attempted around 20 times to contact Smarty Host believing the problem may have been at my end. I did eventually get a response days later. I now have my website and email back. My business suffered and compensation should be due.

    Optus not good enough for SmartyHost?Locomotion -- 24/05/06

    Obviously SmartyHost does not seem to think that Optus is good enough for them.
    Their main website www.smartyhost.com.au is still with iPrimus, yet they were more than happy to move everyone else over to their new dodgy Optus setup!
    What's wrong with Optus Anoosh?
    Why haven't you moved yourself?
    Obviously it's OK to move everyone else over to the new dodgy setup you have created!

    Check your factsAnonymous -- 26/05/06 (in reply to #120134945)

    It say's quite clearly in all the media coverage that only some of SmartyHost's customers have been migrated. The high quality of Optus data centre is common knowledge - which planet are you on?

    Experiences with SmartyhostC Waller -- 28/05/06

    I have three websites with Smartyhost. The commercial one was down for 8 days, its subdomain was down for 14 days. My email was out for 8 days.
    One of the websites hasn't yet been migrated to the new server and is working fine. The third site went across without problems, though the short notice meant some quick reorganisation.
    The real problem throughout the whole debacle was the inability to contact Smartyhost. I logged a couple of faults on their help site but had no response to those for 7 days or so. When I next logged on to the help site my fault logs had disappeared. When I eventually got to speak to a human at Smartyhost he told me their fault tracking system had fallen over and all their customers' logs were lost.
    It is interesting to hear that Smartyhost were focusing first on phone complaints. The first five or six times I called I was switched to recorded voice, and then after about 5 minutes the phone was hung up someone at Smartyhost.
    I've had reasonable service from these guys in the past but it is clear they were swamped by the results of their poor planning and decision making.
    I hope that my remaining website migration goes smoothly, but I'm not holding my breath. (It's non-commercial.)

    smartyhostrichard w martin -- 30/05/06 (in reply to #120135128)

    Sir: In USA this does not happen often. the result would be litagation for damages you suffered financially. Plus you find a different provider and do everything you can to pass info on that burries Smartyhost. sincerely rich

    Common KnowlegeLocomotion -- 29/05/06

    What are you talking about?
    It's well know that they were moving the rest of their customers over to the new services.
    Plus it was mainly the longer serving customers that have been with SmartyHost for yonks that got affected, because they are on the oldest servers.
    Don't talk to me about that Anonymous. Because it's a load of ........

    Refunds - Has anyone received one?Anonymous -- 29/05/06

    Has anyone received any refunds or tangible compensation yet? I was eventually contacted by phone from SmartyHost and when I told them I had changed hosters they didn't really seem care - until I asked for a refund. They seem shocked and upset that I wanted compensation. I am waiting to see how that will eventuate.

    Problems still ongoingDaryl Chambers -- 30/05/06

    The comments I have read suggest that DummyHost have resolved their issues - this couldn't be further from the truth. My clients site is still down and despite 10 attempts to contact them both via their online support forum and by phone, they haven't even bothered with so much as a call to give me a time frame as to when the problem will be sorted out.

    I can't believe the complete lack of regard they have for their clients business - just a phone call or email to say, "we are really sorry - we are working night and day to sort this issue out and will keep you, our valued customer informed."

    But no - nothing - it is particularly annoying to have to sit through their on-hold propoganda when you call them that raves on about how they stay ahead of the rest of the pack by putting their customers first.

    I feel particularly sorry for the staff who were not responsible for this botched migration yet are bearing the brunt of customers anger - and also potentially stand to lose their jobs as thousands of customers search to find a host that is more reliable

    Lack of Smartyhost SupportJohn Backer -- 31/05/06

    We too have had/are having similar issues with SH. Although, in reference to a comment made further up the line in this thread regarding no contact re the server upgrade. We did receive an e-mail that was sent to the wrong address. It was by chance that I was overseas and when I was unable to access my server mail I used my old ISP webmail and found the notification from SH. Since then I have attempted contact to in fact SPEND MORE MONEY and they still haven't bothered to respond. I'm keen to see what heppens when I attempt to change hosts and transfer my domain!

    Manzoori assumes his customers are idoitsIan McWilliam -- 31/05/06

    > Another customer was critical of the fact that both primary and secondary domain name servers were shifted at the same time, "thus removing all visibility of domains registered on [SmartyHost's] name servers".

    > "We had to change both as they point to the same server," said Manzoori.

    Wow, All smarty host customers should consider leaving. If this is smarty hosts hosting model then it's incredibly flawed. A Secondary Name server running on the same machine as the Primary. No backup redundancy there. A secondary is designed to take over when the primary fails or in this case taken offline.

    What a wonderful PR ploy. Manzoori has NO IDEA.

    Manzoori assumes his customers are idiotsIan McWilliam -- 31/05/06

    > Another customer was critical of the fact that both primary and secondary domain name servers were shifted at the same time, "thus removing all visibility of domains registered on [SmartyHost's] name servers".

    > "We had to change both as they point to the same server," said Manzoori.

    Wow, All smarty host customers should consider leaving. If this is smarty hosts hosting model then it's incredibly flawed. A Secondary Name server running on the same machine as the Primary. No backup redundancy there. A secondary is designed to take over when the primary fails or in this case taken offline.

    What a wonderful PR ploy. Manzoori has NO IDEA.

    Still waiting for a responseAnonymous -- 06/06/06

    We had to urgently update our site guess what the password for the site were inaccessable contacted Smarty Host twice by email once on phone still could not get the proper response because they will only email me the passwords and still 48 hours waiting, I am very upset I will be moving my domain somwhere else soon.

    Smartyhost debacle - loss of credibility.Carl Cristie -- 06/06/06

    I have moved all accounts hosted by this company. The lack of professionalism exhibited by this company will make very sure i never do business with or recommend them to anyone ever again. I now have to mend frayed tempers with my clients, this debacle has been of major detriment to my client relationships and therefore business. I am appalled at what has gone on with this no service provider. It must also be noted that their lack of customer support is also the worst in the business. Why would anyone do business with a company that treats its customers like this? We are seeking legal advice on this matter.

    fault reports tickets closed without resolutionAnonymous -- 08/06/06

    As a client of Smartyhost, I reported that (a) my emails had not been migrated across to the new server and, even worse, (b) my address list had not been migrated.
    The tickets I put in to report these problems were closed with not remedy to these problems. Reporting the unwarranted dumping of these problems met a stone wall.
    I won't be renewing my subscription.

    Over a month and Still No action from SmartypantsAnonymous -- 08/06/06

    My web site is still disabled since these jerks moved to the Deadly Dell servers. They still have people that they call tech support who have no idea what the problems are. Why dont you get Dell to help you Mr Arrogant Smartypants

    Web site off lineAnonymous -- 15/06/06

    I have been unable to get a reply from Smart Host regarding my web site being unavailabe since May 2nd. How do you get these companies to take notice. I was not notified of their change over.

    Customer Service =0Anonymous -- 02/10/07

    Just to add my 2 cents, as a freelance webdeveloper smarthost has the worst customer service that i have come accross. I would never ever endup hosting another website with these guys. My emails and phone calls have not been answered after 9 days. DONT NOT EVER MAKE THE MISTAKE I DID AND ENDUP HOSTING YOUR SITE WITH THEM. I have screen shots to prove the original conversations over emails and im still waiting on their feedback.

    SMARYHOST DOWN AGAINAnonymous -- 05/11/07

    Smarthost told their customers the move to Optus hosting would provide reliable and scalable growth to its customers...... Well, guess what, their web hosting has had a major hiccup today.
    A customer rang their technical support line and their voice prompting system did not once mention their is a major outage yet the recorded message played how reliable their site is with 10,000s of satisified customers and lots of new features..... a great deal of good that is if you can't access the site!
    After 15 mins of waiting on hold and getting repeated assucrance from the chirpy voice message that someone will attend the call shortly, the customer decided to leave a message advising Smartyhost of the problem and that their customer 'service' and technical support VRU needs a significant overall.
    This customer eventually, bypassed the so-caleld technical support route and got hold of a sales person who confirmed their has been a major outage at the Optus Data Centre. The customer then asked how they could lodge a complaint. The sales person said you do this via the Smartyhost website .... to which the customer replied that's fine if the website was UP! The sales person reluctantly agreed to take the customer's details and said someone will contact them 'when it's humanly possible' ... whatever that means.... they've never heard that term used in a service level conversation before.
    Well, it's been almost 3 hours now and the customer is still without an operational website or a call from Smartyhost.
    Need it be said that the cistomer and I'm sure many others are losing customers, revenue and their patience with this ISP.

    smarty host poor serviceJo -- 15/12/07 (in reply to #320089158)

    Our domain name went down last saturday and they made us pay because they said there was a large email in the mail box. HOWEVER, THERE WAS NO LARGE EMAIL RECEIVED. They have blackmailed my asking for credit card details or they will delete the mail que. Now again this saturday, same problem. They are PROVIDERS OF SYSTEMATIC POOR SERVICE!

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