RailCorp targets rogue iPhone app

NSW state corporation RailCorp has threatened a Sydney software developer with legal action if he fails to withdraw a train timetable application that is currently the second most popular application in its category in Apple's App Store.

The Transit Sydney app
(Credit: Alvin Singh)

The idea for the application, Transit Sydney, came to web developer Alvin Singh after he began teaching himself how to program in Cocoa Mobile, the Apple-created programming language used to build applications for the company's hugely popular iPhone.

"In December I had some spare time and thought I would learn to program for the iPhone," said Singh, whose day job developing for a News Ltd online property requires a daily commute on Sydney trains.

During that month and January, Singh developed and worked with App Store reviewers to refine the look and feel of Transit Sydney, an iPhone and iPod Touch compatible application that lets users search timetable information for services on Sydney's lines.

The $2.49 application, published by Singh's one-man company FunkWorks, was an instant success, and is currently the second most-popular travel application in the travel section of Apple's Australian App Store.

The application, which displays upcoming train information in a format similar to the monitors found in every Sydney station, ranks just behind a timetable application for the London Underground and just ahead of a similar application with information on Melbourne's trains.

Transit Sydney is selling several dozen copies per day — an encouraging result for Singh, who acknowledged it needs additional functionality and was testing the waters before spending additional time and effort developing the application.

Users are clamouring for more functionality — including weekend timetables and live-updated information on track works and cancellations — but Singh has been planning on adding those enhancements in a future version. "I eventually got it to a point where for most people it's usable, and if you're a weekday commuter you can use it," he says.

Yet within days of its 18 February release, Singh received a cease and desist notice from Rail Corporation NSW, the government body that administers Sydney's CityRail network.

"I advise that copyright in all CityRail timetables is owned by RailCorp," said the email, which has been seen by ZDNet.com.au. "Any use of these timetables in a manner which breaches copyright by a third party can only occur through the grant of a suitable licence by RailCorp."

The notice came as a surprise to Singh, who believed that timetable information about public transport systems was public information and pointed to a wealth of similar App Store applications providing timetables for train systems in Melbourne, Perth, Singapore, Paris, London, and even another application with the same Sydney information.

As a government body, RailCorp information is protected by Crown copyright, a contentious provision in copyright law that has recently been used to block attempts to access information on the location of Victoria's bushfires and even seemingly innocuous information as the locations of public toilets.

At this stage, it is not possible for RailCorp to grant third-party developers access to our internal passenger information systems.

RailCorp spokesperson Paul Rea

A 2005 inquiry by the Copyright Law Review Committee recommended relaxation of Crown copyright provisions to allow for more easy access to public interest information, but those changes have yet to be implemented and RailCorp is standing by its challenge.

"RailCorp's primary concern here is that our customers receive accurate, up-to-date timetable information," RailCorp spokesperson Paul Rea explained. "This includes details of service interruptions, special event services, track work and other changes."

"At this stage, it is not possible for RailCorp to grant third-party developers access to our internal passenger information systems. As such, any third-party CityRail timetable application would contain inaccuracies and have the potential to mislead our customers."

Asked under what terms a developer could get access to a "suitable licence" as per the email sent to Singh, Rea said such licences are currently unavailable to developers while RailCorp firms up its own mobile development strategy. A timetable application for iPhone and other mobile users is expected later in the year, he said, although it was not yet clear whether this would be provided for free or at a price.

Singh is taking a wait-and-see stance for now while he gets further legal advice on the situation or a formal legal letter of demand from RailCorp, and is considering escalating the dispute over availability of public information to the office of NSW Ministry of Transport or the NSW Ombudsman.

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Talkback 66 comments

    win-win James -- 03/03/09

    so let's summarise:

    * man develops app
    * people love app
    * railcorp concerned that people get wrong info and ask man to stop

    so how about railcorp employ man:
    * pay him to continue app development
    * give him access to better data
    * keep the people happy

    or am i making too much sense?

    look at the reviews Anonymous -- 03/03/09 (in reply to #320124663)

    not so sure people are loving the app!

    iPhone appliaction Tom Wolfe -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124668)

    ... and why would that be????.... and why are you anonymous????

    Typical incompetence from CityFail Gerard -- 03/03/09 (in reply to #320124663)

    The guy was developing a program that CityFail failed to bring out themselves. Obviously its popular and they are just are realising their own incompetence yet again.

    I agree with James. Give the guy a job. He seemed to be able to do what CityFail wasnt able to do, without their budget and red tape.....Funny that. Maybe they should also outsource timetabling, train driving, signalling, security, cleaning, management, organisation etc etc to someone else, because they seem to be incompetent at everything they do.

    smells like IceTV Dan -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124669)

    what a shame - this is the same battle IceTV have had with channel 9 of using public info.

    shame shitty rail - shame

    incompetent and arrogant

    Outsourcing JohnH -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124669)

    Gerrard, if you want CityRail to outsource everything please please please come and take Connex away from Melbourne. We will willing give them to you. Then and only then will you see what a good job CityRail probably does. I had no complaints with their service on my last trip to Sydney in January.

    Outsourcing Rich -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124739)

    Don't blame Connex in Melbourne, the trains and the lines belong to the state government, it is they who have let them fall into disrepair. Connex is simply a glorified labour hire firm. No, I don't work for them, but yes I do remember the absurd overmanning in the 'good old days'.

    Not a good argument Chris Sherlock -- 06/03/09 (in reply to #320124739)

    Last time I visited Melbourne, I had no problems with the trains. You can't possibly judge the sheer stupidity of Railcorp based on one journey!

    Better functionality needed Anonymous -- 06/03/09 (in reply to #320124663)

    The cityrail timetabling site sucks as it is right now, especially for anyone who doesn't use it everyday.
    If someone can make it more user-friendly, why not? Also I would say that no program is perfect, and it's just taking time for that to become obvious with iPhones.

    Melb Train System Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320124949)

    I lived in Melbourne for a while and i found the train always comes on time. And their Tram system is awesome, they have GPS on every tram so they gets accurate information.

    hmmm city rail, they should at least provide RSS for timetable so developers can create better app for them

    RailRort exposes themselves Mel Sommersberg -- 03/03/09

    How can RailRort be concerned with the "accuracy of information" provided by them when the frequency of late and cancelled trains prevents this anyway?

    If only... Rich Buggy -- 03/03/09

    If only CityRail would spend as much time making the trains work as they seem to be spending to stop this guy...

    what's that muffled sound? Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    Oh, yeah, it's the stifling of innovation, here we are in the midst of a global crisis and the Railcorp is so lame that one, it doesn't even have a mobile strategy yet, and two that it would even bother coming up with one.

    I say make all the information public and let smart innovators figure out what to do with it, that will probably save a few million per year in meetings and strategy consulting.

    Waste of money Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    I'm all for new innovations, but the timetables are rubbish. It's a sloppy app development typical of one man's novice efforts to get rich quick. I wasted my $2.49 and if there are dozens of people purchasing this app a day, I'm not the only one. It's fraud and iPhone should remove it.

    Waste of money?? Anonymous -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124716)

    $2.49 is hardly a large amount of money considering what you paid for the fone. Do you work for RailCorp by any chance??

    Waste of money Tom Wolfe -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124722)

    HA, HA, LOL, yeah he / she probably does work for Railcorp, and i bet its not in IT Development!!

    Cityfails again!! Peter Jay -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124716)

    same price as one stop one way ticket.. how many times has CityFail cost you this in late arrivals?

    FFS they can't even do a mobile (slim) version of their own timetables on the web that looks good @ 320x240. Instead, wade true pages of rubbish to work out you just missed the last train.

    I had his app on previous (non iPhone) phones - he developed these out of necessity, not get rich quick.

    Wake up CityFail - someone is providing a service you do not - put up of shut up.

    Waste of money Dmitri -- 06/03/09 (in reply to #320124716)

    Yeah, who need timetables? Who needs to know when the train arrives?

    And all the information is already there on 131500.info site. Nice and clear and convenient.

    Frankly speaking, I personally have problems finding my way around there. But that is beside the point, that is my own problem. I've heard that other people are fine and do not need any iPhone app to help them out.

    Hell, if you really need to know when your train arrives - just carry your laptop around!!

    yes yes Chris Sherlock -- 06/03/09 (in reply to #320124933)

    It's still useful. And Railcorp hardly runs their trains to schedule anyway.

    Oh woe me Anonymous -- 06/03/09 (in reply to #320124716)

    I spent 2.49!

    the proof of the pudding Anonymous -- 07/03/09 (in reply to #320125001)

    Good on you ... I hope you use this app and rely on it. I'd like to see how smug you are once you've had to stand around for ages waiting for a train that is only late because the iphone app says so. Then you'll see what Cityrail are talking about. The timetables on this app are useless.

    Typiocal Corprate Thinking M0TT -- 04/03/09

    Litigate first
    Negotiate second

    get a grip RailCorp

    You provide a dodgy website that is not up to date

    You think you are bigger than you actually are

    Shoot the lawyers Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    Sack whoever is responsible in the RailCorpse.
    This is the sort of stuff that will make Australia fall behind the rest of asia.
    What a crock.

    This isn't the only app CityRail has bullied to death Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    There's another app called Metro Sydney that is made by a developer who has provided Melbourne and Perth with good apps that integrate all forms of public transit. Metro Sydney did the same, until CityRail threatened again and had the app pull the rail information. Metro Sydney holds the timetable information locally on the device, so it works without access to wi-fi or internet (which is great for iPod Touch users) We've been complaining on the MacTalk forums for ages, but CityRail has forced the removal of good functionality out of the app. Get some more PR around this story!!! a big enough outcry will force their hand.

    Railcorp have been at it a for a while Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    Railcorp have been playing this game for a while. Later last year they killed Metro Sydney and my old favourite Trainview (J2ME - http://www.grofsoft.com/tv.php) that had been around for years.

    I am sure they will get around to completing their mobile timetable application strategy, right after they work out how to make the trains actually obey a timetable.

    This also relates to Railcorp denying timetable information to other service providers like Google Transit.

    TrainView / TripView Nick Maher -- 04/03/09

    I have developed a couple of similar apps over the last few years (TripView for iPhone and TrainView for standard Java-based phones), but was also asked to remove them by RailCorp last October.

    Ironically RailCorp actually approached me back in 2007 to ask about licensing TrainView, and back then they said they had no problem with me using their data. Seems like they've changed their minds since then.

    I'm not sure why they think it's such a big deal - surely a suitable disclaimer message to indicate the times are not official would be sufficient.

    Apple should remove app from store Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    It uses stolen content and it must be breaching some terms of service.

    Just because you can build it, doesn't mean you should be allowed to release it.

    It's not stolen content... Tim -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124731)

    It is not stolen content. It is publicly available factual data. The free to air TV lawsuit against IceTV made it clear that factual data such as this cannot be copyrighted. RailCorp do not have a legal leg to stand on, but they're going after the little guy who can't afford to fight back. Nice one.

    Who owns the timetable? Anonymous -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124731)

    Isn't RailCorp a government organisation?
    If so, doesn't that mean that we own this information anyhow?

    Doesn't this also mean that any lawyers getting money about this topic is indirectly being paid by us, the humble taxpayer?

    Freedom of....... Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    Sorry where do we live?
    Do we fall under a Communist country?

    CityRail should be ashamed and publicly shamed, timetable information is part of public domain, they serve us, they should be happy of any assistance/available service to help them with their, on a global scale backward service.

    It reminds me of the same bull we are experiencing with free to air digital program information constantly being blocked by Channel 9, I have a digital dual tuner on my mac and subscribe to IceTV (Costs me money), 9 is always missing evening and weekend information on films.

    If you buy an app you are not happy with post comments on the Apple store (let other buyers know the downfalls, send an email to the developer help him make the app better, many a time I have received benefits from doing this.

    This is a real important application, one that should not be suppressed, I live in Melbourne well quite far out of the city, and I like to do my bit for the environment and not drive everywhere all the time. I would be absolutely lost without "Metro Melb.app", heck it even provides concise information for where I live (an hour and a half out of Melbourne CBD by car).

    Everybody lumps it on USA for how they sue everybody all the time, but in cases like this it is time for us Aussies to have easy abilities to joint sue companies that are giving us bad deals. How can CityRail, Channel 9 or any other company dare dictate to developers or customers of services utilizing free to air public interest information.
    Duh...! It’s basically free advertising you drongos...!

    Wrong procedure Michael -- 04/03/09

    As we have learnt from recent ICAC hearings, the developer didn't follow the normal City Rail procedures.

    He needed to find a dodgy Contract Manager in IT, and enter into a corrupt arrangement with suitable kick-backs up the chain.

    Then it would have been plain sailing all round.

    Transit Sydney iPhone appliaction!! Tom Wolfe -- 04/03/09

    This is a FANTASTIC application, WELL DONE Alvin!! Railcorp should of developed this ages ago and as per usual like there buses, trains and ferries there always too late!!!!!!!!!!

    Traindb JR -- 04/03/09

    My friend developed one previously for older mobiles a few years back, recently he was also told to not develop it for iPhone. CityNazi's. What kinda govt runs our public transport? Be sure not to vote Labour next round.
    Such a disappointment for Australia's biggest city.

    Ridiculous copyrights Fred Janon -- 04/03/09

    It's ridiculous to think that publicly available data (and the ones paid by the tax payer) can be copyrighted. What's the purpose of the lawsuits? Being like the US maybe, lawsuit country? Certainly not improving the public service. Ask the rail users if they approve the legal action taken with their money...
    +1 for sacking the idiot that spent the time doing that instead of doing his job running the rail correctly.

    Best of luck Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    I wish the developer the best of luck here. Hopefully this can end up a win for consumers.

    The state has no business seeking to prevent free flow of what is public informa Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu) -- 04/03/09

    Just like the state trying to "keep secret" the location information on public toilets, this is another crazy case of the state trying to prevent the free flow of information. it all started with Telstra's crazy claim that they "owned" all of the address information for all Australians. In reality, Australian citizens did not entrust Telstra to keep their information private, but rather provided it TO GO INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
    The state ought work out what are "state secrets" that should be protected, rather than public information that ought flow.
    See my comments on this regarding the Victorian Bushfire's CFA attempt to prevent Google on-providing information of a safety nature!

    Write to RailCorp Rich -- 04/03/09

    Could someone provide a link to an appropriate site or address (MP? RailCorp Exec) where we can tell them how cross we are.

    NSW Minister for Transport Michael -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124758)

    David campbell is the NSW Minister for Transport. His portfolio includes City Rail.

    david@campbell.minister.nsw.gov.au

    Try Getup Anonymous -- 04/03/09 (in reply to #320124758)

    I love this, Getup is probably just the place. Get an online petition up and running and they will take it to the minister.
    http://www.getup.org.

    Getup are a bunch of nutters Mel Sommersberg -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320124816)

    No-one is going to listen to a bunch of radicals who protest against everything. If you want your plight to be listened to and recognised then steer clear of anything to do with Getup.

    Easy Fix Anonymous -- 04/03/09

    It's simple. make all the times inaccurate by 1min. Then it not a copy of data elsewhere. Simply state all times accurate to within 1min.

    plug Anonymous -- 05/03/09 (in reply to #320124767)

    if you wanna widget that does something similar try this:

    http://widgets.yahoo.com/widgets/transportnext

    But... Anonymous -- 06/03/09 (in reply to #320124767)

    ...the trains never run on time anyway, so it would make the inaccurate times even more accurate than those in Cityrail's timetables, which is a win-win!

    Isn't every web browser breaking copyright then? Anonymous -- 05/03/09

    This app is just another web browser which displays information coming from cityrail's web server. It happens to format it in a way that is more useful for iphone users than just using firefox.

    If this makes it copyright infringement, then firefox and internet explorer are just as guilty.

    No. Mel Sommersberg -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320124869)

    If you'd bother to read the terms and conditions on most websites they will include a clause that says words to the effect of "you may make a temporary copy of this page for your personal use only" This means that you can open THEIR page in YOUR browser but you CAN'T repeat the information for the benefit of others.

    I'm not buying into whether RailRort is right or not - just clarifying a point.

    Railcorp Mobile Strategy Suggestion Pieter Pieterse -- 05/03/09

    The point on the internet at the moment is to free your information for others to reshape. That is the thinking behind a growing number of winning strategies.

    Railcorp should actually just transmit 2 live feeds. One of how trains are running currently and one with the static timetable. That way others can re-purpose the information for multiple uses and audiences and probably make it available within a very short time-frame.

    timetable app Anonymous -- 05/03/09

    The former Rail Access Corproation demonstrated a similar app on a mobile phone in 2000. But the neolithic SRA refusd to let 3rd parties such as Optus access to the timetable for their users.

    Seems rail management is still neanderthal!

    PR Disaster Alternative Reality Anonymous -- 05/03/09

    Businesses are proving slow at learning the new rules of engagement. Social media is increasingly powerful. CityRail should buy this application from the developer and/or offer him an ongoing development role. Alternatively, the developer should withdraw his application (if he feels there is a genuine litigation threat) and create an application where users can submit their real-time experiences of CityRail delays, breakdowns and incidents. CityRail could be named and shamed on a minute-by-minute basis as users log their problems on their mobile phones and PCs into a publicly available application. Imagine the PR disaster that could create, when the bad news cannot be spun by misleading definitions and statistics. This is just another large business which is about to get its bottom spanked in public because it does not understand or embrace new media.

    RailCorp Aoudrious Pouicha -- 05/03/09

    I just wanted to express my thoughts in relation to this matter.

    I cannot believe what I�m reading, this guy is obviously a smart guy & I do not see any wrong doing by the individual, only wrong doing by RAILCORP and the stand over tactics, and not to damage the incompetents that Railcorp management have.

    See Railcorp problem is that they are not just trying to make him stop but also trying not to look so incompetent as they didn�t think of the Idea first and Mr. Singh did and invented it instead of talking about it to Mr. Singh they just shut him off and not work together.

    I share my views on this matter as pathetic and stand over tactics on Mr. Singh by Railcorp & may be Railcorp instead of having to stop him from future projects may be considered introducing Mr. Singh to create something more efficient for our timetables to be more effective and have the freedom to check were ever you are.

    CityRail was actively giving this data for use on your PDA Martin Visser -- 06/03/09

    I am surprised that no one has the fact that CityRail were actively promoting and making the data available for PDAs , Personal Digital Assistants (which the iPhone is definitely one) as recently as 2006. There is no explicit copyright statement for this data and how it should be used, beyond they do with the regular timetable. It was formatted for use on a PDA web browser, which in those days was almost ubquitously a 320x240 Windows Mobile device. I have looked at the included data and I cannot see why should wouldn't be able have an iPhone or other PDA app grab that data and import it when it needed (rather than including it in the app). Funnily enough even though they don't link to the data today, it is still there. I don't know whether there was notice given, nor a reason. Maybe they were hoping for a commercial offering. This data should remain free - it is publicly fund, there is no commercial competition to Cityrail, and it is for the public good.

    You can see what the index page used to look like at http://web.archive.org/web/20060624160102/www.cityrail.com.au/timetable/downloadPDA/index.jsp

    An example zip of the data still be found directly at Cityrail's website at http://www.cityrail.com.au/timetable/downloadPDA/zips/CityRail_Timetable_for_PDA-Airport-East_Hills_Line-280506.zip. Beware, they may take this down once this link gets out!

    Is anyone really surprised about this? Soren Krumrey -- 06/03/09

    These guys are responsible (and getting paid for) the worst and most unreliable train system I have ever encountered in my whole life. Does anyone really expect anything else from them than sueing this poor programmer for something that they should actually provide to their customers for free themselves? I moved to Sydney from Europe a couple of years ago and really tried hard to use trains and buses here. Just ended up purchasing a car a few months ago as it seems to be the only way to get around in this city which is really sad if you ask me.

    Reviews Anonymous -- 06/03/09

    Is it possible the Apps bad reviews are due to using Railcorps timetable(TM) which seems to have little to do with when a train might be at the platform. Because that would be, I dunno, useful.

    That's why I think RailCorp want to stop it. Because it will make GLARINGLY obvious how useless their timetable is at predicting when or if a train will arrive.

    Railcorp plainly ignorant Anonymous -- 06/03/09

    Nothing they have said (through the media) makes an ounce of sense.

    I have decided to respond in kind. Bought the app as a donation. I don't even live in Aust. I don't care if it is crap - my purchase is a vote against RailCorp.

    Transit Sydney amoral creeps Anonymous -- 06/03/09

    Typical, some old greedy stupid lawyer thinks he has a chance to attack the little guy.
    Disgusting.

    A schedule is not copyrightable! Anonymous -- 06/03/09

    Copyright only applies to "literary and artistic works", and lists of facts (such as telephone books) have been held to not qualify.

    While there can be artistry in the layout of a paper schedule, the raw times are factual, not expressive, and the lawyers are talking out of their collective arseholes.

    Others disagree Felix Yu -- 07/03/09 (in reply to #320125019)

    Don't think so... http://blogocrats.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/iphone-apps/

    Copyright protects Cityrail customers Anonymous -- 07/03/09

    Copyright can also be used for protection of information. The Cityrail timetables published by these app developers are out of date - and will mislead CityRail customers. The only 'legal' course CityRail has is to cite copyright ownership and ask them to take it down.

    the app is (was) the best thing about CityRail Brendan Bouffler -- 08/03/09

    ... becase the trains and the service certainly aren't.

    that this is not news is so shameful- I'm in AMerica but.... Hust GO -- 08/03/09

    I do not believe that this has happened routinely before.

    I discovered this in the transit group at google. I have previously posted there seeking a talking or at least triplanning gadget like a now so common gps brick for giving people turnkey like access to superior transportation choices other then horrendously expensive asphault and absurd contraptions to bankrupt and destroy on it barely getting anywhere.

    Yes this should of been available long before it was for cars. But now it's been available for cars for years and they are advertised brand unspecifally! Cost less then a cheap cell phone! And work really well.

    So guess where they get the data? MOst countries using GPS paid not a cent for it, nor for the data about there roads used by those boxes.

    Please write me if you are also ashamed. We can do something about this. It must not be kept secret as it's claimed to have been before. Cars can't survive if we can get a hold of our transportation options, and we can, and survive ourselves instead!

    GetUp now Dmitri Kozlov -- 09/03/09

    We should act.

    There is "Fix Transport" campaign at Getup:
    http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/FixTransport&id=355

    It is a generic and a less focused one (that means it is harder to make something happen) but we may use it to express out view on this particular matter. Of cause we may suggest a new campaign.

    Nathan Rees wrote on Twitter: "I've asked Minister Campbell to speak to RailCorp. They will meet with the app developers to negotiate how to use the info accurately"

    Which doesn't guarantee any positive outcome, but public reaction may help.

    Sydney transport in far from the best in the world:

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21418282-2,00.html

    http://www.livenews.com.au/articles/2008/12/11/Sydney_transport_Worse_than_third_world_cities

    It is required much more to fix the system than opening a free access to timetables. But providing an accurate information on train or bus arrivals will be a proper step in that direction. It is frustrating when a train you are expecting is late, it is even more frustrating if you do not have a clue how long you will have to wait till that train, or bus, or ferry arrives.

    It is not very hard to implement a real time information system where vehicles are tracked and timetable information is updated on a fly. I guess that some work may already has started (have anyone seen a label on a bus saying "this bus is equipped with a tracking device"; I saw some). Also: "Thales announced that it had been awarded a contract to provide Sydney Ferries with software allowing commuters to access real-time ferry information "on the wharf, on vessels, over the internet, on mobile phones and PDAs".
    These are positive signs.

    Still we need an open access to information. Why? Because there is no solution that fits all needs; public needs different solutions. Also because it is more economical to have an open system. Openness in business is not a new idea anymore, social outsourcing is not a heresy too.

    Of cause applications like Transit Sydney are limited as they do not provide real time information. But they have all rights to exist and they are useful. What is most important in the story around Transit Sydney is the indication that Railcorp is unwilling to do even simple things which cost a tiny fraction of money. It is very easy to provide a live feed on timetables and updates and let third parties to develop data view applications. Data accuracy and public misleading issue? Let public decide which application it wants to use.

    If Railcorp shuts down applications like Transit Sydney today then I doubt that we will have a usable real time system information implemented in a nearest future.

    Why can't we in Sydney and in Australia have a system like http://thenexttrain.com/ ? Why BART (Bay Area) provides free feeds of realtime train information and we can't have similar here? http://www.bart.gov/schedules/developers/etas.aspx

    Shame.

    Why demonizing the the developer? Sri Panyam -- 09/03/09

    Is it me or should the developer be demonized with the "rouge iPhone app" title. Am I just overreacting and missing the obvious sarcasm?

    On a similar note, we developed a similar app last april (for the android platform). But had run into several verbal tiffs with the govt. We tried to get lattitude and longitude information for bus stops but we were told that it would cost around 1600 bucks and on top of that we were forbidden to put it into any meaningful use which would involve, giving it out to the public... yeah nice work encouraging innovation sydneybuses!!

    cheers
    Sri

    Make web services available - but app must be free Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    RailCorp should make web services available of their content, on the condition that all apps that use the content are free (no subscription fee, no ads).

    Best app written can be purchased by RailCorp.

    A mobile service already exists for the next train/bus/ferry.

    Here:

    http://mobile.131500.com.au

    I use it all the time. I bookmark the page for my bus stop and I can see upcoming buses. Not as sexy as an iPhone app, but it works fine on my phone. I'm sure it works just as well for trains.

    Govt caves Jono -- 09/03/09

    The SMH online is running a story that Nathan Rees has told Railcorp to work with the developers.

    Quick ZDnet ..... ctrl+C .... ctrl +V

    Stick to core incompetence Anonymous -- 10/03/09

    A railcorp insider told me they have been making losses running into a millions for a while. I don't want them to blow any more of public money on any jazzy apps. They should just stick to running the trains on time and the public will somehow figure out the timetables!!

    free license = good innovation that naturally rises to the top Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125278)

    exactly!!

    so many times, you can win by
    a) the gov giving the information a free license and,
    b) letting users do what they want. they best one will naturally rise to the top and solve the problem
    if one particular developer uses old data then the market will shift to one that is more reliable. RailCorp should not stick their foot in things that should not be under their jurisdiction.

    Taxpayer has already paid Anonymous -- 10/03/09

    What should not be allowed is that the taxpayer of which I am one has already paid public servants to produce this information for us, they now like to then charge the same taxpayers to access it. Its like the building standards information in Victoria, you have to pay an overseas company for the right to obtain a copy because our government has sold them the exclusive right to information produced by the taxpayer. When did they stop being public servants, and become private enterprise.

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