Optus NBN plan would kill DSLAMs humanely

Optus this week said that although it would bypass telephone exchanges and the ADSL infrastructure within them when building its National Broadband Network, it would do so in an "orderly" manner and guarantee wholesale pricing to ISPs whose assets were made redundant.

There won't be a DSLAM graveyard
pileup under Optus' bid

(Credit: Dead Cities by mugley, CC2.0 )

"That asset is going to be stranded at some point in time," Optus director of government and corporate affairs Maha Krishnapillai told ZDNet.com.au, stressing that it was inevitable when rolling out a FTTN network. DSLAMs are the networking equipment in telephone exchanges that make ADSL broadband possible.

However, that did not mean that companies such as iiNet and Internode, whose businesses are currently based on having their own equipment in exchanges, were heading for sudden and disastrously high write-offs, he said.

"We will work with the suppliers who have those arrangements to have an orderly transition, which is one of the main reasons they are part of the bid," Krishnapillai said. Terria, which has as its members Internode, iiNet, Optus, Macquarie Telecom and iPrimus, is backing the Optus bid to build the national broadband network.

Not only will DSLAM-centric companies receive a smoother ride under an Optus bid, their margins will be protected, Krishnapillai said. "We will guarantee that the pricing will not be any higher than they have [now using DSLAMS]," he said.

Krishnapillai said he didn't think that there would be any hesitation by rival bidder Telstra to cut off its competitors' infrastructure as soon as possible, and he thought that the big telco wouldn't use kid gloves when it did. "I suspect there will be a couple of court cases there," he said.

Telstra was unable to comment on the issue in time for publication, however in the company's regulatory submission to the government in June Telstra said:

"The Government will need to make a decision as to whether it will compensate the owners of DSLAMs that are rendered obsolete as a result of its commitment to the rollout of the NBN. To inform this consideration, Telstra advises it has DSLAMs deployed in 2751 exchange service areas as at 17 June 2008. Telstra estimates that non-Telstra providers have deployed DSLAMs to approximately 530 exchange service areas."

Krishnapillai didn't go into the details of how this "orderly transition" would go ahead without delaying the schedule for the network's rollout.

David Kennedy, research director at analyst firm Ovum, said that the idea of the outside-in rollout could be how the company planned to progress, explaining that if the regional areas received NBN infrastructure first, the exchange infrastructure in metropolitan areas could remain in use for longer.

"It could be a little more self-interested than they're letting on," Kennedy said of the regional-first strategy Optus is proposing to let the bush have a fair go.

However, when iiNet managing director Michael Malone was sounded out on the issue, he said that over 90 per cent of households in metropolitan areas already had access to ADSL2+ speeds, meaning the priority had to be elsewhere.

"No matter who wins, I reckon that if it is done "inside then out", then regional Australia will never ever get done," he said. "If the builder is forced to start in the under-serviced areas, they are incentivised to get them done fast, so they can get to the more lucrative metropolitan exchanges as soon as possible."

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Talkback 75 comments

    iinet Anonymous -- 03/12/08

    Maybe iiNet should be the ones leading this NBN rollout - they are the only ones who seem to say things that make sense and without doublespeak. All other comments seem to be put through a marketing filter with all useful content stripped out.

    Optus to milk dslam and defer fibre for as long as possible Anonymous -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117793)

    Yes iinet seem to make comment's that are less camourflaged.

    But what's interesting now is finally your getting a little more detail about Optus's motives.

    Optus suggesting running fibre in the regions first is not about anything else but protecting the dslam investments.

    As well as optus continuing as long possible to lease from Telstra at the current copper pricing.

    Otherwise as the winners of the NBN it would seriously lose money if it were using its money first (as oppsed to the govt's) to run fibre to uneconomic areas first.

    That why it does NOT WANT to run the NBN,
    It is NOT CAPABLE of running the NBN,
    It has not and will not find the money for the NBN
    And It WILL NOT be running the NBN.

    pffft! joe -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117797)

    yeah its horrible and evil of optus, running fibre in woop woop first, you know, where they dont have anything currently... this only serves their own interests of course! (im going to point out im been a tad sarcastic here for humourous effect, and to make sure no1 things i may o gone pro-telstra for a moment *shudder*)

    NO no No! Anonymous -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117797)

    You sir dont have a firm understanding of the BB infustructure. Optus are Protecting thier Cable invesments in the metro areas by roling out regional first :)>

    In saying that, The only one the SHOULD NOT BUILD THE NBN IS TELSTRA. We will end up with less than we have now for more if telstra win the bid.

    Fingers crossed anyone other than telstra get the contract!. Say NO to High prices, crap service - Say NO to Telstra

    Get real Anonymous for Australia's sake. Sydney Lawrence -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117831)

    With respect Anonymous your above statement of lunacy contains not one redeeming feature.

    Do you understand the horrific financial dilemma the Australian taxpayer will find themselves in if other than Telstra win the NBN build.

    Do you think it a good idea that Australia's vital communication system be under the control of foreigners. Do you consider it sensible that a company without financial capability be granted the build.

    come the war joe -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118001)

    come the war with singapore sydney I'm sure it wouldnt be to hard for us to send the soldiers into the HQ of fibre and make sure they dont hit that big red detroy all button... but also, syd, if we go to war with america? 1 of them are in charge of telstra at the moment, should we be worried about that as well, and while were at it, perhaps we could round up all non-patriotic aussies, you know, lest they sabotage us as well...?

    If Telstra win then foreigners will still rule the roost Mel Sommersberg -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118001)

    If Telstra win the bid then Sol (a foreigner) and the Amigos (foreigners) will still be running the show Sydney so your point is moot.

    I'll remind you again too that Singapore Telecom has a local shareholding and via Optus, an Australian as CEO.

    And... Mel Sommersberg -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118037)

    Singapore Telecom already have experience at rolling out fibre networks for Internet use. Telstra don't.

    @ if telstra win ned kelly -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118037)

    helloooo, i think you'll find optus ceo is (a foreigner - your words) mel. hes *irish*. rofl.

    regardless, optus is owned by singapores singtel. this isnt a racist comment, its fact. go to the optus website and they will say so and next to the comment is a link to the *bosses, singtels* website too.

    again let me reiterate, i use an optus mobile.

    here's a few prophetic words for you mel. by a gent named charles, from a previous zd blog dated nov 4. words from a guy possibly just like you and i, but one who doesnt comment with mindless selfish bias, like some.

    *isn't it time to just take the facts for what they really are as opposed to which company they relate to*.

    all summed up sensibly in less than two dozen words. nice work charles.

    please listen to these words of wisdom mel, for goodness sake.

    Words of Wisdom Mel Sommersberg -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118044)

    I note that you have completely evaded the FACT that Singapore Telecom has an Australian shareholding. We all know that Optus' parent company is Singapore Telecom and I am merely reminding the evergreen amnesiac Sydney Lawrence that Singapore Telecom (and therefore indirectly Optus) has an Australian shareholding via a listing on the ASX.

    "*isn't it time to just take the facts for what they really are as opposed to which company they relate to*"

    Facts aren't facts unless they relate to something. It is therefore a fact to say that Optus is more Australian than Solomon Trujillo.

    Putting all that aside, I really don't care who builds the FTTN because I don't want it built. I want FTTH instead, as do a lot of other people, and I want any winning bidder to provide it to everyone (naturally this would take a bit more time) and provide it at an affordable cost.

    I fail to see what is unreasonable about that.

    la, la, la mel ned kelly -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118061)

    just shut your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and scream out la, la, la so you can't hear anyone else, consider any sort of compromise or hear the voice of reason mel.

    you are precious. you appear to have absolutely no idea about anything, just a stupid belief that telstra is evil and the rest are angels.

    what a mission statement.

    newsflash, they are all the same, just telstra is more established and the rest need to do more to attract customers from telstra. these aren't angels, they are simply businessmen and women, nothing more. this is basic commonsense, which seems to elude you?

    ftth would be far superior agreed. what is unreasonable is the cost to build it (probably fttn x 3, 4 or 5) and you will still want ADSL2+ and better speeds, 12GB minimum downloads etc for no more than $50 per month. unfortunately whoever were to build ftth, would be in debt to the tune of many $b's and would need to charge more. so the figures simply dont add up, you cant have your cake and eat it too.

    perhaps its best to think before you write.

    but mel really, no rational human who is simply an everyday citizen, could possibly be so ridiculously biased or hold such a grudge, as you do, against the evil Telstra. i believe there must be a reason for all this unhealthy aggression? You are either -

    a) a stakeholder in an opponent
    b) been sacked/retrenched by telstra and obviously hold a grudge (as would I)
    c) overcome by unhealthy, irrational hatred
    d) all of the above.

    so cmon mel, fes up, which is it?

    ive got a lazy redback on d) myself.

    You mean blah blah blah don't you? Mel Sommersberg -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118067)

    Your price comparison between FTTH and ADSL2+ is ridiculous. Remember back to the days when we paid $40 a month for 150MB of dialup access? It wasn't too long ago and we were paying that upto three years after Telstra and Optus rolled out their cable networks.

    Your question about ownership of shares is fair, as it is often asked of other people here. I don't own shares in any ISPs and never have. Last February I sold $27,000 worth of shares in other companies and paid off all my debt so I guess I am lucky in some respects.

    I've never worked for Telstra so it is a bit hard to be sacked by them. I also don't hate Telstra. Only people with a school-age child mentality would even bring up the issue. The fact is, if Telstra could ever compete on price and value for money, I would use them. They don't and have no intention of competing on either price or value for money so why should I use them?

    You owe me $20 sunshine. :-)

    Anyone who uses Telstra when they have access to better deals are basket cases. Those who don't have access are excused for obvious reasons.

    Lastly, your first comments demonstrate that your shoe size is greater than your IQ. They also prove that a best-selling author you will never be.

    @ you mean blah [mr impartiality] ned kelly -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118084)

    yes they are ridiculous figures, because they were your figures mel. rofl. this is what you said you pay now (i think you said $51 for 12Gb, so i gave you a dollar off ) which i simply elaborated on if ftth were to be built. you quoted these in another zd blog, so i ran with them, der. but dont be too hard on yourself. we understand.

    interesting that you make an issue of mere (your) figures just to hide the crux. that being your adolescent bias.

    i love it went the likes of sydney says he doesnt hate telstras opponents and you say i dont hate telstra, then both make daily statements completely to the contrary. lmao.

    you guys genuinely are so blinded, i think you actually believe your own lies. so technically they aren't lies then, i guess? just poor sorry individuals, who know no better.

    i'd gladly pay you the $20, if you just admit that you are irrationally biased, with no idea whatsoever about anything. so do so and $20 will be on whisking its way to you, even though d) is still the obviously logical conclusion, to everyone but you and one other, below.

    so, obviously i have a bigger foot than you, mel!

    Fact versus fallacy Mel Sommersberg -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118114)

    Ned you just argue for the hell of it. Your arguments never make rational or practical sense and you constantly strive to see yourself as right all the time. With that in mind I will prove your latest theory wrong by making a basic comparison. "My figure" of $51 is what I am paying at the moment for a very good service. This figure is not something I plucked out of thin air like your projected estimate of FTTN pricing but right off a piece of paper called my invoice.

    Ned, every time you open your mouth you make life so much easier for me and I'll admit I enjoy giving you a battering each time. It is a welcome precursor to the festive season and whilst I am likely to continue to disagree with you on a great many things I do wish you a Merry Christmas.

    fact vs. phallus more like it ned kelly -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118156)

    whats so hard to comprehend mel?

    yes, you quoted $51as your current happy price, with people (who are telstra resellers, doesn't that make you a pseudo telstra customer, that must hurt). so i used that figure you quoted as a hypothetical figure, you (mel), would probably want to pay for ftth.

    what you neglect to consider is the billions more it would cost in comparison to fttn, let alone vs. what we have now. i was simply highlighting your possible unwillingness to pay more than you currently do, even though it would obviously have to be so, telstra or not. it's not lambda calculus mel, its pretty simple.

    if i was wrong in my assumption i will certainly take it back and apologise, because *i dont want another battering with a feather now, do i - rofl* see i dont think i'm always right and will apologise when wrong. cant do anymore than that.

    as for argumentative, go back and read and you will find it was you who started the argumentative stuff. i simply asked you to listen to charles words of wisdom and you said *my shoe size was greater than my iq*, so cmon.

    contrary to your accusations and unlike you, i am most open minded and have spoken on behalf of telstra, against telstra, for terria, agaisnt terria and if you did the rounds you would know that is so..

    as for that battering, yes, whatever, lets just say you are the terria of battering and leave it at that shall we.

    but without trying to offend you, the reason i started on you was, you know when you read sydney and he says all that soppy telstra stuff and everyone then says, stop enough, of the rhetoric. well you do realise that you always say nasty things about telstra and usually for no apparent reason, dont you?

    because of this mel, you simply remind me of sydney, but the flip side thereof.

    you may have noticed that although we disagree, unlike you, i havent bagged telstra or telstra's competitors at all. i did say terria were a fraud and by not bidding they proved that. i have simply played the devils advocate with you, as i have also done for the other companies against sydney and the likes.

    however, we will actually be on the same side soon. that is of course when telstra gets up to no good and deserve a serve and i'll give it to them alongside you.

    however i guess it would be too much to ask you to do likewise and join me, when one of the others deserves a serve, just to prove that so called impartiality of yours?

    which brings us all the way back to the crux of my correspondences to you. but thank you for the kind wishes and i certainly reciprocate.

    Spin doesn't resell Telstra Mel Sommersberg -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118159)

    Again you have been proven wrong and this time you can blame your own overworked phallus because again you just comment for the hell of it.

    Please do some research before opening your mouth. I'll add that Spin was offering ADSL2+ well before Bigpond made it available.

    By the way Ned, who do you use for connectivity and how much are you paying?

    disgraceful lies mel ned kelly -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118179)

    i was going to tell you about my comms, in another zd forum, but flicked over here first to discover that youre obviously nothing more than a blatant liar mel, so nothing you say or have said, can be trusted.

    you are saying now that you are a spin internet customer? so youve just happened to have changed in the last 2 days then?

    here's what you said just 2 days ago, on zd

    [* I hope M2 get rid of People's disastrous pink corporate colour scheme. Every time I visit their website I have to sit in a dark room for half an hour to sooth my optic nerves.

    OTHER THAN THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN A FAIRLY GOOD ISP FOR ME

    and I hope that M2 don't use it as an opportunity to go Telstra-esque with pricing* ]

    couldn't even get through one comment without that telstra gibe, could you?

    strange, *no talk of being with spin or changing isp's there*? have been, not *were* fairly good for you? *you didnt say, you previously were, or as a former people customer*? then you went on to hope m2 didnt up your prices (yes like the evil telstra). but now you magically aren't a people customer, youre a spin customer? oh, ok then?????????

    so which was the lie, the first or last comment, or both? hard to tell now mel, you have obviously said so many.

    you lie about this and you are probably lying about not having a stake in telstra's opponents or having been sacked by telstra.

    obviously you are such a chronic liar that you are unable to keep track of them all. i think you owe me $20 sunshine : )

    as i said before, no rational human could hold such a grudge against anyone for no reason and you've just been found out.

    lets hear your rational explanation (more lies), rofl.

    even in debate there are ethical guidelines which you have broken.

    therefore *you and your lies do not deserve further acknowledgment. you are absolutely shameful, mel*.

    Errrrm... I have two connections Mel Sommersberg -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118190)

    Ned, I'll admit you have pissed me off right now. I don't appreciate people calling me a liar however I will retain my composure a little longer as I show you a picture of my modems, on the wall in my kitchen, side by side, serving me well - Free of Telstra's ravenous clutches. Link to the picture of my modems, one on Spin and one on People is at http://iserv.com.au/photos/modems.jpg

    Haven't you been embarrassed enough Ned?

    rofl!! joe -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118219)

    Uh oh ned, the bushrangers be on the way now >.< and damn I'm jealous you been able to afford 2 connections there Mel!... btw what state/city are you? Cause over here in perth I've never actually heard of People or Spin...

    Stand and deliver :-) Mel Sommersberg -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118220)

    People Telecom used to be called Swiftel, which was originally Perth-based. Not sure who owns Spin but they are attached to Comcen in some way as they share a network and even have identical websites.

    I reckon Neddyboy will hate life when he sees the picture though. He was a bit too quick with the flintlock pistol this time. heh

    well they sure not perth anymore.. joe -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118225)

    lol, they musta pulled up shop and ran then, only people I know servicing metro perth now is telstra, optus, westnet, internode and iinet, though TPG has got an exchange in central perth... anyone else here in Perth could give some good ISP's? I'm looking for a better deal :)

    and agreed mel, you did pull the 2 modems out of the proverbial hat there, but me thinks you are rubbing it in to much ?

    Almost time to upgrade Mel Sommersberg -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118226)

    I am thinking of changing the People connection to someone else anyway as the connection needs to be upgraded to ADSL2+ but because I host websites, mail servers and the like each connection has to be on a different ISP for redundancy purposes. What a dilemma. Anyway that is something I'll have to ponder on over Xmas.

    To clarify the need for the image I showed, it sure hell beats being called a liar although at this time of the year I won't reply in kind to Ned. I wish him well for Christmas.

    no arguments here joe -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118228)

    no arguments here about the image and the hosting there for all to see, personally good call on that, lol, im refferring to the "neddyboy" comment, rofl, it ruins the sophisitcation of a well rounded rebutal if you ask me, but you did make your point that something is not always as it seems

    wow neddyboy (c/- the dynamic duo) -- 08/12/08 (in reply to #320118229)

    well joe, it seems you and mel are twins after all.

    i have tried to *dumb it down for you both* as much as possible, since your powers of perception are obviously miniscule,

    see *people NOT spin*.

    so in between ***sing in mels pocket because he has two connections and a camera, big deal, see if you can work it out?

    but who in their right mind would take a pic of their connections and say someone else will hate life. you guys have gone past irrational and are becoming moronic. not everyone is impressed by such nothingness!

    i couldn't care less if mel has 40 connections and 40 different isps, but as long as you are impressed joe, rofl.

    back to the pc boys, reality is getting in the way again?

    people NOT spin?????? neddyboy (newly christened by mr honest) -- 08/12/08 (in reply to #320118220)

    lmfao - no not on the way yet joe.

    not before i demonstrate mels dishonesty and running for cover, which does not deserve reply.

    so since you guys wish to be pedantic and play games, let's play!

    mel now magically has 2 isps, ok so be it. he has isp -

    1) people telecom. who have been a fairly good isp for mel, he said - zd 5/12

    2) spin. who magically appeared as a 2nd isp after he said people was his isp?

    6/12. I (ned) said to mel - your current happy price, with *people [telecom]* (who are telstra resellers, doesn't that make you a pseudo telstra customer, that must hurt).

    7/12. mel replied - Spin doesn't resell Telstra - again you have been proven wrong.

    what the hell does spin have to do with you admitting to being a people customer and me saying people are telstra resellers???? helloooo!

    are people telstra resellers? yes! so how's that wrong?

    so let clarify. one of mels *two isps* *people telecom* the one he actually told us was his isp (as opposed to the other isp which conveniently appeared to cover up) are telstra resellers. AS I SAID.

    so whats the problem and you tell me please joe (cant get a logical answer from the horses mouth) where is that wrong?

    as i said in the other zd blog. he certainly must have two, *no one is that silly playing with one*.

    Spin does not resell Telstra Mel Sommersberg -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118297)

    Spin does not resell Telstra Ned, certainly not where I live anyway. The reason I have two connections is because I hopst my own mail and web servers and Internet convention requires two connections for this purpose.

    Being the short-sighted person that you seem to be you just assumed that I was bignoting myself and I'm yet to receive an apology for being called a liar - not that I am expecting to ever get it. Narcissism seems to take precedence over humility in your MO.

    umm Ned... joe -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118359)

    i have no idea what you were going on about there, having only skimmed through it... when i said mel got you... I was reffereing to the point you were jumping up and down on the couch in joy at having 'caught out' Mel with his 'magical ISP switch in 2 days'... and then he simply posted a photo to prove you wrong, lol, i personally think he over did the taunting, hence me saying in what i hoped tactful way, "but me thinks you are rubbing it in to much "

    Also, the moment i question your impartiabilty with a philosphical point im suddenly "minscule" among other things... (btw, i admit it, I hate telstra as much as syd loves it, big surprise, I've admited it before)

    If i could figure out how to do a raised eyebrow emoticon i would...

    umm joe... neddyboy -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118398)

    finally, see below, someone who has intelligence, can understand basic english and sees what i was saying, before mel started to cloud the issue. thanks paul - refer below *no but people do*

    what i was going on about joe, was your childish carry on (go back and read your last few comments) in general and towards me, when mel said he had two isps. wow.

    if you havent already, both joe and mel, please read what paul says and see if it then makes sense to you at all?????

    ... joe -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118414)

    I believe i asked him what 2 carriers he was with, if he knew any good 1's in perth that i might get a kickass DL limit from? also yes, i expressed 'wow' in him having 2 Adsl connections, the geek in me finds that interesting to be honest, whether he has a reduncancy set, a Web server that selects the most approiate link, what routing protocol does it employ if so... the geek in me finds that pretty interesting actually >.< I believe also that i said him posting a photo of his 2 modems was a good response to you calling him dodgy with his magic ISP switch... i never mentioned anything about re-sellers or such?

    rofl, its a valid point i raise Ned, not an attack on you, you present your view on the facts you see, hence you are unbiased, the facts influence whether your pro-telstra, anti-axia or what ever it may be of the day... Now dont get all offended, but I dont believe your always going to know every little fact, I certainly dont, mel doesnt, syd doesnt, K'Rudd doesnt, No1 does, so maybe Mel's just been presented with consitently anti-telstra facts on which to base his opinions where's you have a had a more varied mix?

    fair enough neddyboy -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118421)

    i was actually referring to this -

    Uh oh ned, the bushrangers be on the way now >.< and damn I'm jealous you been able to afford 2 connections there Mel!

    just sounded a bit sucky to me.

    but rst assured, i dont take personal offense, otherwise i wouldn't be here would i? lol.

    and quite the contrary, i certainly dont know every little fact - BUT I AM WILLING TO LISTEN, RATHER THAN ALWAYS BLUNTLY CATEGORIZE ONE SIDE AS ALWAYS THE INNOCENT VICTIM AND THE OTHER THE VILLAIN.

    thats why i choose to take the middle ground, and why blind bigots, get up my nose, because they know no better, but *arent willing to listen and learn*.

    really no one is right or wrong and i reiterate, all these companies are the same, its *just business*. which brings us all the way back to the beginning again, rofl.

    so i certainly agree with your last comment.

    regards neddyboy (love the new name).

    No but People Telecom do and I think that's the point? Paul -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118359)

    Mr Sommersberg.

    You still haven't replied to my previous mails. But have replied to Mr. Kelly many times. He seems to have gotten under your skin.

    I do think it was a bit over the top him referring to you as a liar, but really, you certainly are avoiding his actual comment and being very coy and rather childish, I feel.

    It's quite obvious to me that Mr. Kelly isn't questioning Spin as being resellers. What he is saying is, People Telecom resell Telstra and looking here on ZDNet it appears he's right, they do resell Telstra.

    So why all the 'spin about Spin'? Just admit it. It won' t transform you into a 'fanboi'

    Paul, you are wrong Mel Sommersberg -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118412)

    Kelly didn't mention anything about People reselling Telstra and even if he does it would be irrelevant. Paul, like Ned, you should stick to the topic and stop hijacking threads for your own ends.

    Also, nothing makes me a fanboy. I buy services when I see good value for money. When that supply line stops I bail out and look for something better, regardless of who is selling it.

    No Mr Sommersberg, read it again. Mr Kelly was right and you are WRONG, sorry. Paul -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118453)

    Mr Sommersberg.

    I mean you no disrespect, but although pretty immature, this has become the topic. You and Mr Kelly have made it so.

    Had you read correctly or actually took note of what Mr. Kelly said, this farcical situation may never and shouldn't have eventuated.

    Also by saying "Kelly didn't mention anything about People reselling Telstra", you are again leaving yourself wide open to another accusation, much like the previous one. Because yes he did, in black and white above.

    Here's a copy/paste of exactly what Mr Kelly wrote - "yes, you quoted $51as your current happy price, with (((((PEOPLE))))), (who are telstra resellers, doesn't that make you a pseudo telstra customer, that must hurt)".

    Mr Sommersberg, although of no real importance, it is as clear as day. Mr. Kelly is 100% right. He clearly said this and his information appears to be 100% correct, People are Telstra resellers. Just face it you made a mistake, we all do it.

    I think he owes you an apology for the cheap liar shot. but I also think you owe him one too.

    Or are you going to argue further, but now with me, even when it must have now dawned on you "that he was right".

    Paul, you are wrong Mel Sommersberg -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118461)

    Paul, you are wrong, as you were with the nationality of the Optus CEO. You can quote till you are blue in the face but you are wrong because you are not quoting from Kelly's original post. Like Kelly, you are just bending the truth to suit yourself. You are wrong.

    Look what the cat dragged in. Hi Brad Bradley -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118463)

    The moron that is Mel is actually serial moron Lord Watchdog.

    You can tell by his moronic ranting like, 'I host websites and servers', a classic comment from the moron.

    You will not get any sense from this moron because 'he is a liar'. He will argue when he knows he is wrong because as a moron he knows no better.

    He does hate Telstra and has been fighting with them since being banished by them, for being a moron. Im sure others out there can fill in the gaps.

    I don't like to bring these forums down, with insults, but this is how this moron operates.

    It doesn't matter which side you are on, please be civil to one another, but not this moron. This child needs to be treated like he treats others and as the moron he is.

    Go back and play with your radios, moron.

    What can i say following that? Paul -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118463)

    Mr. Sommersberg?

    I had a comment for you in relation to your ignoring, rather than bending the truth, but it pales in comparison to this other very intriguing comment I just read, which I refuse to go anywhere near.

    However, for future reference. Paul O'Sullivan was born in Ireland and has a B.A. in Economics, from Trinity College, University of Dublin.

    I'd say that makes him Irish?

    Go on, play the trump card, tell me errrrm, I have two Paul O'Sullivan's and please send me a picture.

    One Two Three Mel Sommersberg -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118568)

    "I had a comment for you in relation to your ignoring, rather than bending the truth, but it pales in comparison to this other very intriguing comment I just read, which I refuse to go anywhere near."

    Wise move Paul, because trolls like the one above us in this thread just go from forum to forum stalking and abusing people for the fun of it. This idiot either is or was (I can't tell which because he's too gutless to use his own name) a host on Bigpond's decrepit IRC network and has a chip on his shoulder because I, along with a group of friends, bailed from Bigpond and started our own and ended up making a success out of it. It is not an unusual occurrence in the world of IRC and certainly won't be the last. The sad thing for this bloke is that the content of his rant is nothing new. Only his version of events is suspect and I could produce dozens of witnesses to prove it.

    As for Paul O'Sullivan, I am aware of his parentage but he is a naturalised Australian, as has been pointed out by others here (which is why I concentrated on other parts of the discussion here) and is therefore, in my determination, an Australian. He isn't going to cut and run after his tenure expires like Sol and the Amigos will for reasons which should be obvious.

    Ned Kelly James Bell -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118067)

    And what about your reasons for standing up for Telstra Ned 'unprejudiced' Kelly?

    Most of us here either don't want the NBN because we're happy with what we're currently receiving today, and if an NBN were to be forced upon us we certainly don't want Telstra to own it because we know what this will do to pricing. $29.95 for a 1Mbit connection with a 200Meg allowance?? And I only get to take advantage of that 'generous' price if I choose to go with Telstra for my phone line. If I go with someone else then Telstra's 'entry' level plan becomes $39.95. What a complete joke!!

    I currently have a 20Mbit connection with a significantly higher download allowance, yet I'm only paying slightly more than Telstra's proposed 'entry level' plan for their NBN. I might also add that Telstra's NBN is no longer even national, but rather a city centric network which appears quite similar to what they tried to enforce upon us a few years ago. Why would anyone in their right mind want to see this happen? The people most desperate for broadband infrastructure are those in the country, yet with Telstra's proposal everyone (both country and city folk) get screwed.

    "just shut your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and scream out la, la, la so you can't hear anyone else, consider any sort of compromise or hear the voice of reason mel."

    That sounds a lot more like the behaviour of Telstra to me. You certainly can't prove Mel has been any less rational.

    @ned ned kelly -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118085)

    look! ironically one who is even more biased than even mel (just when we thought that wasnt possible), james, has just entered the fray. hi james. rofl

    you guys stick together like the proverbial to a blanket dont you.

    but you assume james, because you and mel, can only see one side that everyone can only see one side. not everyone is like you and unwilling to compromise you know. i was having a go at mels blind hatred, so again you assume that i am on the telstra band wagon. be-bah (thats the old temptation failure buzzer) hopefully you heard that buzzer, even with your fingers in your ears.

    for the record i dont want an nbn either james, so your entire blurb was for nought. personally i am happy too. although unlike you, i recognise there are many others who do not have quality broadband, so i think of them too, not just myself. you ought to try something new and think of someone other than yourself for once.

    i was referring to mels wonderful new idea of ftth (he thinks he was the first ever to suggest it. lmao) as opposed to fttn. i agree the claimed entry prices for fttn are too much, but unfortunately no matter who builds the nbn, will want a roi. you too are graphically demonstrating your bias if you believe telstra are alone there. but although we havent heard actuals from everyone because of the gag order, it does seem that telstra will want a greater return.

    funny thing is although you and mel claim impartiality, i have never once seen either of you say anything nasty about any company but telstra. this seems odd, you both being so impartial and all. as an optus customer myself, i can assure you, like telstra, they arent perfect either (but dont tell anyone).

    if you are in doubt about my *impartiality* check here, where I was referred to as a terria moron (& ****wit) twice . charming.

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/Terria-gets-unions-on-board/0,130061791,339293115,00.htm

    nice try boys. but again - "*isn't it time to just take the facts for what they really are as opposed to which company they relate to*" thanks again charles.

    i look forward to more brilliant, rational and totally unbiased replies, from the dynamic, la, la duo.

    Weee! joe -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118115)

    *Joe jumps into the fray*! aha! all joe has to say on this issue, $29.95 for 1MB and 200meg DL... telstra, are you high? I'm getting better from *GASP* optus right now, and its on a wholly owned and operated optus line, so no leeching!!

    I personally say screw the NBN, build more overseas fibre links, and increase everyone's download limits!! but since we seem determined to build this NBN... go the A team!

    hello joe ned kelly -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118125)

    nice work joe, commenting on a saturday (in your own time) i assume -LOL.

    cheers ned.

    rofl joe -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118128)

    Telstra never sleeps ned! Were always watching *shifty eyes*

    Blah Blah Blah Mel Sommersberg -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118115)

    "i was referring to mels wonderful new idea of ftth (he thinks he was the first ever to suggest it. lmao) as opposed to fttn."

    I was probably close to it, I've been arguing for a true nationwide glass network for about five years. That said I don't care if I never get the medal - it's not a competition. I want to be known as a supporter for FTTH, not necessarily the first supporter.

    Ned, you spend too much time attacking personalities instead of being relevant to the discussion and this before anything else discredits any argument you put.

    @blah ned kelly -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118157)

    mel, i am ned kelly for a reason. i dont attack those who dont deserve it.

    get real, make your point without the childish negativity and i will do likewise.

    Blah Blah Blah Mel Sommersberg -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118161)

    Your namesake shot several policemen dead Ned, all in the name of being able to remain unlawfully at large. You call that deserved? L-O-L.

    Ned, the difference between you and I remain obvious. You attack other users here, calling them petty names and hurling diatribe. Others here, including myself debate the topic at hand, which is who is best-equipped to roll out a truly national broadband network. Stick to the topic and you'll get respected.

    Words of no wisdom and blah blah blah Paul -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118180)

    Mr Sommersberg.

    Never mind your little phallus measuring games with Mr. Kelly, I am still awaiting your apology or retraction, below, please?

    Leaving Mr Kelly out of this altogether, you need to take your own advice before having the gall to tell others what to do. You do not stick to the topic at all, you spend half your comment indiscriminately attacking Telstra.

    Stick to the topic, stop the anti Telstra animated, performances and you too may get respected.

    paul, joe -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118195)

    Optus CEO is an australianin citizen and resides primarily in australia, as does his family, so (and feel free to, i may have incorrect sources) i spose he is australian, no? or at the very least the fact he resides primarily in australia would at least make him more aussie than sol perhaps? =P *takes his stirrer and puts it in the telstra pot*

    Words of no wisdom Paul -- 06/12/08 (in reply to #320118061)

    Mr Sommersberg

    I note that you have completely evaded the FACT that you were wrong with your info about Optus having an Australian CEO.

    Apology or retraction please.

    shush now! joe -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118155)

    Mel i agree with you, in theory, FTTH is really the only way to stick australia ahead of the broadband game, FTTN wont put us ahead, but in-line.. but Mel, in this case, Ned raises a valid point, its gonna be f'ing expensive to do FTTH currently, and as you said, you want decently priced internet, so while FTTH will kick **** its too expensive to lay unfortunately... and mel, Ned is fairly objective, is leaning towards telstra lately, but i think thats only to **** u off =P so relax guy! the war against telstra isnt going to be won here, and hopefully the panel of experts will realise that acacia/axi's bids look pretty tempting, they meet all govt objectives, companies publicy stated there very happy with the objectives, and hell, bringing a 3rd large telco player into aust can only be good... though if telstra do get the bid, ACCC and K'Rudd will hopefully strong arm them into playing nicely for the sake of the next election =P

    @shush ned kelly -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118196)

    thanks joe. i agree 100% (not 99%, 100).

    what about if all 3 [acacia, axia and optus] got together and did FTTH?

    @@shush ned kelly -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118198)

    oops i shouldn't have said that, joe.

    now the fanbois will again want me hanged or is that hung, rofl

    oh well, such is life.

    rofl joe -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118198)

    well good idea of sorts, but my argument against FTTH (while i would personally love that blue cable of internets poking through my front door) is that its to expensive, not capital wise, but RoI wise, all 3 could easily get together and raise the capital (despite what syd says, axia at least is a very reputable company) but the interest alone on the ~30 billion loan needed would be killer and the internet plan costing to recover that would never be acceptable... though on the 3 of them working 2gether, perhaps all 3 could pitch in the build a new fibre link to the rest of this world, not to incur the wrath of the speed demons here but im quite happy on my 8Mbps (im on a 24Mps plan but use an ADSL1 modem) what gets me is the DL limit, I buy 2 TV season online from america and by the time I DL it all my limits shot for the rest of the month,

    And I got a question for the forums here as well, currently around 70% of aust internet is on ADSL, majority of this ADSL 1 so tops 8Mbps (prob 512, but for arguments sake), If we were to suddenly jump everyone of those internet connections to a minimum 12, whats this going to do to our Packet Traffic to the rest of the world, we have DL limits currently because the traffic is limited... personally this is my main concern with the NBN...

    shill Anonymous -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117797)

    Looks like the Telstra PR department got onto the interweb this morning!

    @shill Anonymous -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117839)

    yeah just before you tttt guys did, obviously.

    well, joe -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117978)

    there shifts do start at 6am in the morning, you wouldnt expect tttt to be up that early without pay either would you?

    our saviours Anonymous -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117998)

    yes you would, they are there to save us all from the evil telstra. lmfao. they should never sleep.

    no doublespeak? Anonymous -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117793)

    I agree that iinet tends to come to the point and that is nice to see. However they are not always clear. Using buzzwords like 'incentivise', which is not a real word, can cause confusion.

    amazingly, it is correct Anonymous -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117834)

    http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/incentive?view=uk

    according to te COED it IS actually a word. The intention was pretty clear to me, at any rate.

    Investment is trashed - reason for apathy to NBN M0TT -- 03/12/08

    Gee

    I wonder if the investment by all the telcos (Telstra and all the others) in DSLAM's has anything to do with their tardy approach to the NBN.

    It is doubtful if they have achieved their target ROI and when FTTN ot FTTH is rolled out - DSLAMS are no longer needed in exchanges.

    It would be reasonable to believe that the lost investment ROI on DSLAMs will be passed on to FTTN/FTTH subscribers.

    lets milk it some more!! Anonymous -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117795)

    Sorry MoTT but all the other added together would not come close to Telstra investments...they would simply love to sponge some more...............

    Sorry mate cheack your facts Anonymous -- 03/12/08 (in reply to #320117801)

    Really sick of people saying other companys are sponging of telstra infustracture.

    The fact is they are not in any way shape or form "sponging" and time and time again are refused BY TELSTRA acess to install thier own EQ to services customers.

    If anyone is to accussed of sponging it is telstra itself. Sponging of the Australian people charging like a bull in a china shop but delivering Chiness Knock off grade product!

    HANDS UP FOR STRUCTAL SEPERATION OF TELSTRA.

    +1

    Coooeeeeee. Sydney Lawrence -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117832)

    You're floggin a dead horse Mate.

    @cooooeeeee Anonymous -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118003)

    no hes not sydney, he has one vote. haha

    Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence! Anonymous -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118003)

    Sydney, post your postal address details and I'll have a mate who works for Optus send you a free cap and polo shirt, just in time for Christmas!

    It is yours for free! I doubt Tel$tra woul send you anything for free, at the risk the expense would bite into their profit margins...

    Have fun and good luck!

    Terria vaporized as will Optus' bid. Anonymous -- 03/12/08

    Fact is if Telstra won it would use Govt money to run fibre anywhere the govt would want to run fibre first.

    But the Telstra money would be used to SIMULTANEOUSLY run fibre where it would make the greatest economic return.

    Optus - Alas the farce is coming to end, just as the hollow pretence that was Terria came to steaming brown end a few weeks ago.

    One bid to rule them all... Anonymous -- 03/12/08

    There's only one bid that deserves the NBN, and it's "anyone but Telstra".

    If Telstra is split into completely separate wholesale & retail companies, THEN it's possible. Otherwise, we're just strengthening the monopoly they already have.

    Optus consortium of one. Ha Ha. lol. Sydney Lawrence -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320117850)

    Anonymous please what fools do you think you deal with here?

    Telstra is in fact the only bidder that doesn't demand a monopoly.

    Open Access NBN Anonymous -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118005)

    thats right Sydney...Opposed to the now defunct Terria consort I believe Telstra's proposal will be open access!!

    syd joe -- 05/12/08 (in reply to #320118005)

    i believe axia is happy with a wholesale model, and I've honestly never heard them mention mandatory traffic minimums, thye have said that to break even they would need a certain amount of traffic... but thats only to be expected

    @Sydney Lawrence Anonymous -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118005)

    There are a lot of smart people working for Telstra in the engineering departments, however it's management and the likes of Sydney Lawrence that causes all of the damage.

    Sydney, post your postal address details and I'll have a mate who works for Optus send you a free cap and polo shirt, just in time for Christmas!

    It is yours for free! I doubt Tel$tra woul send you anything for free, at the risk the expense would bite into their profit margins...

    Have fun and good luck!

    Merry Christmas Mr Lawrance!

    The good old days Mel Sommersberg -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118211)

    Back in the days when I had Bigpond Cable (we are talking a few years ago now) I also had a mobile service, two landlines and a backup dialup service too.

    Hang onto your chair.....

    Telstra sent me a Christmas Card and a complimentary pen one year! I felt so special! That was back before Sol and the Amigos though.

    Get with the strength. Sydney Lawrence -- 07/12/08

    All Australians should rejoice in the fact that in these times of diminishing returns the Australian Iconic company Telstra continues its popularity, growth and strength.

    The Australian newspaper reported yesterday that because of its strong share price Telstra is now the second biggest company in Australia. displacing Australia's biggest Banks.

    It's now BHP No. 1 and Telstra No.2. This fact gives further momentum to the certainty that Telstra is the only company with the financial capability to build Australia's NBN.

    lol joe -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118173)

    syd, your telling me that telstra makes more profit than the fat cat banks?? surely thats an argument against telstra been handed more business than for?

    lol, also, i thought as far as telstra were concerned there were been driven into the ground with all this mandatory wholesale pricing there doing??

    @Sydney Lawrence... Anonymous -- 07/12/08 (in reply to #320118173)

    There are a lot of smart people working for Telstra in the engineering departments, however it's management and the likes of Sydney Lawrence
    that causes all of the damage.

    Sydney, publicise your postal address details and I'll have a mate who works for Optus send you a free cap and polo shirt, just in time for

    Christmas!

    It is yours for free!

    I doubt Tel$tra would send you anything for free, at the risk the expense would bite into their profit margins...

    Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence!

    Scarlet pimpernel. Sdney Lawrence -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118213)

    Anonymous you make me laugh. Do you think that I could be brought for an Optus hat ( I bet you have a few). Your request for my identification is strange considering your continual habit of hiding behind the "Anon" screen. Seasons greetings to you also.

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