Microsoft fights StarOffice incursions into NSW govt

The New South Wales Department of Public Works and Services (DPWS) has become a key battleground on which Microsoft Australia is campaigning to defend its domination of the desktop from Sun Microsystem's StarOffice.

Sun Microsystems has confirmed that it is in discussions with the DPWS in a bid to snare NSW government desktops with its alternative Linux-based PC operating system and office software suite.

According to Sun's estimates the NSW government could save just under AU$100 million if it migrates just one-third of the estimated 300,000 desktop PCs throughout its departments.

"If they were to migrate 100,000 [users] to StarOffice rather than upgrading to Windows XP it would save the NSW government around up to $AU99 million in licensing over three years," said a spokesperson for Sun.

However, according to well-placed industry sources Microsoft is campaigning heavily for the NSW governent to accept a new cross-agency desktop software contract to supercede its its existing arrangement. The sources said that the DPWS had forwarded a letter to heads of department throughout its agencies outlining an offer from Microsoft containing generous terms if they extend their existing Office software contracts with the giant.

According to the sources, the letter contains a time-limited offer for between 60,000 and 120,000 three-year, Office XP licenses at a cost of approximately AU$770.00 per seat under its controversial software assurance scheme.

A spokesperson for Microsoft Australia said the company has a three-year panel contract with the DPWS that's been in place since 2000 but it is staying tight-lipped about allegations it has sought to alter it.

"During that [time] there has been various deals and negotiations but we can't comment on any specific deal," said the spokesperson.

"We don't discuss publicly any conversation between our customers and ourselves".

Microsoft has also refused to provide ZDNet Australia with details that would reveal when its existing panel contract is due to expire.

Sun Microsystems said it has offered the NSW government StarOffice licenses at one-off cost of AU$45 per user and an on going annual support charge of AU$18 per user for software upgrades.

The DPWS did not to respond to ZDNet Australia's requests for comment in time to contribute to the report.

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Talkback 13 comments

  1. They should choose StarOffice. The savings could go to improving the public health and education system. Anonymous -- 29/11/02

    They should choose StarOffice.
    The savings could go to improving the public health and education system.

  2. I would like to see the M$ execs try and explain to the NSW populace why we should be spending our money on their software, when the money that is saved could be going into the areas that it is truly needed. Can they justify the closing of a couple o MrDamage -- 30/11/02

    I would like to see the M$ execs try and explain to the NSW populace why we should be spending our money on their software, when the money that is saved could be going into the areas that it is truly needed.
    Can they justify the closing of a couple of hundred hospital beds for the purchase of their software? (Not to mention the future closures as the govt has to maintain the upgrade cycle).

    Can they explain why i have to keep driving along dodgy, pot-holed streets, just so the govt can use a point-and-click-and-drool-and-crash-and-scream OS?

    Or possibly explain why public education classes must expand from 25-40 kids per class because the fundung that went to M$ could have been used to employ a few more teachers.

  3. What about local employment? Wouldn't it be better if the money for software licenses would be used to pay local developers? Then they could develop whatever we might need, under some sort of public domain license instead of paying Anonymous -- 30/11/02

    What about local employment?

    Wouldn't it be better if the money for software licenses would be used to pay local developers?

    Then they could develop whatever we might need, under some sort of public domain license instead of paying local developers unemployment benefits and on top of it, sending our tax dollars oversees to pay for some software which is not needed in the first place.

    (Well, some sales people selling it, might see a need for it.)

    What about the rights of the tax payer?

    What about the rights of the unemployed?

    What about the rights of local businesses?

    What about the rights of local IT personnel?

    What about the ethical use public funds?

    If my understanding of open source software is correct, then there is a once only cost to the development of the software or to modifications of parts of it and then it can be used for free, by everyone, forever.
    Naturally, every time the code would be modified it would cost money do pay someone to do it.

    In contrast to some other models of software development were the cost of creating the software is comparable, however the user is forced to keep re-paying for the software in perpetuity / for ever and ever.

  4. Distribute Knoppix CDs to demo the product without the need to install it on a computer. Knoppix runs entirely of a CD without writing anything to the hard disk. (Unless one changes the permissions box and specifically chooses to save d Anonymous -- 30/11/02

    Distribute Knoppix CDs to demo the product without the need to install it on a computer.

    Knoppix runs entirely of a CD without writing anything to the hard disk.
    (Unless one changes the permissions box and specifically chooses to save data to the hard disk.)

    That way their is no danger to the computer of the person evaluating the software.

    This provides a fully functional Linux system without tempering with the software installed.

    Just insert the CD, reboot the computer, do nothing for about 3 minutes and then the Linux system is up and running ready to use.

    It comes with OpenOffice.org Office application the open source brother of StarOffice.

    All what Sun need to do is replace OO.org with StarOffice and hand a copy to every decision maker to evaluate the product.

    That would work.

    To find out more about Knoppix (a Linux distribution) just use google and type the two words "Knoppix Australia" for more info about Knoppix, where to download it for free, where to buy it by mail order for $10 or less plus postage and more information.

    Why Knoppix?
    Because it allows to demo Linux without doing anything to the computer of the user.
    By removing Knoppix form the CD drive it is 100% uninstalled.

    Here is a bit of copy and pasting form a Knoppix file.
    "What is Knoppix?
    KNOPPIX is a bootable CD with a collection of GNU/Linux software, automatic hardware detection, and support for many graphics cards, sound cards, SCSI and USB devices and other peripherals. KNOPPIX can be used as a Linux demo, educational CD, rescue system, or adapted and used as a platform for commercial software product demos. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk. Due to on-the-fly decompression, the CD can have up to 2 GB of executable software installed on it."

  5. Public spending is a problem. It often seems that the contracts go to the highest bidders. Therefore whoever charges most will win the contract. It is not right, is it? Anonymous -- 01/12/02

    Public spending is a problem.
    It often seems that the contracts go to the highest bidders.
    Therefore whoever charges most will win the contract.

    It is not right, is it?

  6. When reading the article I keep thinking of an article I read at http://atulchitnis.net/writings/rising-1.php It was a troubled time. The rebels were winning many battles, but the war was still on. They were gathering mindshare, Anonymous -- 01/12/02

    When reading the article I keep thinking of an article I read at
    http://atulchitnis.net/writings/rising-1.php

    It was a troubled time.

    The rebels were winning many battles, but the war was still on. They were gathering mindshare, and large and small kingdoms, warlords and kingdoms were joining their cause - which led to serious levels of distress in The Empire. They gave their followers a new hope.

    But then the Empire struck back.

    It sent out its fiercest warrior, laden with riches and promises. He went round the land, rousing troops to rise above what he implied to be "the peasants" and to align with the true cause - world domination by the Empire.

    It is not easy to do such a thing, and so, to ease the way into the fortress, he donned the guise of a messiah. It opened doors to him and his legions, and he was welcomed by the most powerful in the land. Others saw this, and opened their doors to him as well.

    But while his offerings of aid may have been genuine, he quickly abandoned the disguise to reveal his true purpose - to quench the fire of the freedom that was growing in the land.

    He used time-proven ways of conquest- magnificient gifts, promises of salvation and of a better land. He offered these with a subtle threat - "hark my words, lords of this land, and do not succumb to this cancer growing within your territory, this cancer they call 'freedom'. Take these gifts, and use them well - by using them to buy from me the tools to govern your land."

    And the lords bowed to The Empire's warrior, and took his gifts, and his words, and swore allegiance.

    They had all but forgotten the warning that one of their own wise men, named Enn-Vee-Thal, had uttered years ago - "do not use the tools from that foreign land, for we know not what they are made of, and they could be used to enslave us!"

    But no one remembered those wise words. They agreed to use his tools, and his legions, to rule their own land, little realising that they did not need them at all - these tools and these riches were already theirs for the taking, right here in their very land.

    But they were blinded by the glitter they saw through their windows, and the "not of this land" nature of these tools, and presumed them to be better than theirs, for such was the way they had been brought up to think.

    And so the land started falling, for the second time in centuries, to the rule of a foreign empire. And the way was the same - come to trade, stay to conquer.

    But deep in the heart of the very land that that the Empire's warrior was trying to conquer, a not so small group of rebels was already at work, undoing the damage.

    They offered true help - not fish (or just pictures of them), but the art of fishing. Not trinkets and toys, but ploughs, axes and tools to help build a strong foundation.

    And they offered that which was most valuable of all - true patriotism and a love for their land, which they did not want to again see being conquered and ruled by foreigners, as it was until half a century before.

    And so they worked hard, day in and day out, to put together their own offerings of knowledge, utility and hope.

    But the lords of their land rejected their offerings, terming them inferior and incomplete, and even dangerous.

    The plea for aid to their cause was rebuffed by the Czars of their land, the barons who were building their fiefdoms using the Empire's tools, foresaking their own.

    But the rebels struggled on, knocking on door after door, never letting denial discourage them.

    And they saw moving pictures of their own lord shaking hands with the Empire's warrior, beseeching him to settle down on their own acres of land, to bring "wealth" and "employment", and promising to use the Empire's tools to rule them.

    The rebels continued in a stealthy way, hiding in shadows, but always there when needed.

    When a trader was in trouble, and needed succor from the cross of license, they sprang to his aid.

    When people

  7. “Under many circumstances, prudent managers must come to view Windows deployment as a breach of fiduciary responsibility.” — GISTICS I can see why they wrote this. Jill Gates -- 01/12/02

    “Under many circumstances, prudent managers must come to view Windows deployment as a breach of fiduciary responsibility.” — GISTICS

    I can see why they wrote this.

  8. Money is no object, unless of course, it is my own money and not someone elses. Anonymous -- 02/12/02

    Money is no object, unless of course, it is my own money and not someone elses.

  9. PRECEDENCE is the REAL threat to M$. Imagine for a moment if the NSW government did decide to go for StarOffice. My bet is that the next step would then be Linux. Then something like this: - Other Government departments Anonymous -- 02/12/02

    PRECEDENCE is the REAL threat to M$.

    Imagine for a moment if the NSW government did decide to go for StarOffice.

    My bet is that the next step would then be Linux. Then something like this:

    - Other Government departments would seek evaluation and experiences of the NSW government (DPWS) in moving over to a non Windows OS

    - Then Local Government would also ask the same.

    - Interstate Government would also ask the same.

    - Federal Government would also ask the same.

    - Intercontinental Governments of the world would also ask the same questions about how successful it has been to use a non Windows OS.

    You see folks..... MicroSoft CANNOT drop price either! They drop their price to compete with a successful alternative (eg. Linux), and the WHOLE WORLD will want a price drop too!

    Greed is good - for a limited time Mr Gates, before the rest of the community wise up, and seek things better!

  10. I work for a large Commonwealth Government organisation that chose some years ago to go with Lotus products rather than Microsoft (based on cost considerations). Our organisation still uses Lotus SmartSuite Millennium. In my experience, increas Anonymous -- 02/12/02

    I work for a large Commonwealth Government organisation that chose some years ago to go with Lotus products rather than Microsoft (based on cost considerations). Our organisation still uses Lotus SmartSuite Millennium.

    In my experience, increasing pressures on organisations to work collaberatively with external bodies mean that inter-operability of finished files is not the only important stumbling block to using non-Microsoft (read non-standard) solutions. For example, the inability to suggest changes and make comments in review modes, or to get exact replicas of even moderately complicated documents in draft stage is a very apparent problem in our organisation.

    In my opinion, the true cost of a non-standard solution includes extra staff training (most people know Microsoft products), non-standard product support (most tech support organisations specialise in Microsoft solutions - just try getting support for a complex database in Approach as opposed to Access) and wasted salary dollars spent through non-technical staff struggling to overcome interoperability and conversion issues whenever they need to work with someone outside the organisation.

  11. Microsoft's file format is non-standard because MS does intentionally not respect accepted standards. They ignore the standards, create their own format which they keep secrete in order to prevent interoperability. The real problem Anonymous -- 02/12/02

    Microsoft's file format is non-standard because MS does intentionally not respect accepted standards.

    They ignore the standards, create their own format which they keep secrete in order to prevent interoperability.

    The real problem is Mircrosoft, the problems are intentionally created to kill competitors and their products.

    It is time to send a clear message to Microsoft, one they can understand.

  12. One of Linux's Greatest Powers is the ability to read M$ Office files & formats. I too have Lotus Notes and realised that the reasoning for their non-compatibility is the old Ford-Holden war,You either in one camp or the other.Bu James Longmuir -- 05/12/02

    One of Linux's Greatest Powers is the ability
    to read M$ Office files & formats. I too have
    Lotus Notes and realised that the reasoning for
    their non-compatibility is the old Ford-Holden
    war,You either in one camp or the other.But you have to pay to be in the camp & even more to stay.M$ Office has a fair few security faults,which Star Office does'nt, Lotus Notes is
    a little too buggy for me and is very limited in its use for true network office system.Now I own
    Lotus Notes,Windows ME/Office 2000/& Linux 8
    /Open Office, Guess which one did'nt cost over $600 & which I use the most? I Hope they go with
    Star Office & Linux or even Debian better.That would show M$, Their not a god unto themselves &
    show Us that someone up there has some brains.

  13. On principle, everything legally possible should be done to support the development of a viable alternative to Microsoft. It's formats are not only incompatible with other software but incompatible with previous versions of its own product. For example, I Anonymous -- 06/12/02

    On principle, everything legally possible should be done to support the development of a viable alternative to Microsoft. It's formats are not only incompatible with other software but incompatible with previous versions of its own product. For example, I recently bought a new computer pre-installed with Word 2000. It depicted all previous .doc files in illegible nonsense fonts. At the same time, a free version of Lotus read these documents and their formats perfectly. Unfortunately, there was no means of converting Lotus (.lwp)documents back to Word. Was the complimentary copy of Word 2000 included to force a costly upgrade to other current Microsoft Office software?

    Similarly, why did later Microsoft operating systems not allow for the printing of anything from dBase?

    I could hold forth at great length about the poor design of Microsoft Excel but suffice to say that the Microsoft monopoly has held software development back in the same way that desktop computer development was held back while IBM tried to force a monopoly on desktop products.

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