Java and .Net both a disaster: research

By Angus Kidman
15 November 2002 11:40 AM
Tags: java, applications, gartner, kidman, development, .net, disaster, sun
Still trying to decide whether your enterprise development architecture should be based around Sun's Java or Microsoft's .NET? Perhaps you should be more worried about whether either of them is going to work at all.

To date, around 70 percent of initial Java implementations have been unsuccessful, according to new research from Gartner Group.

"An inordinately large number of large-scale Java projects have been failures," said Mark Driver, Gartner research director for Internet and ebusiness technologies.

However, Microsoft shouldn't draw any comfort from those figures as it seeks to promote its .NET technology strategy either. In all likelihood, the failure rate for early implementations of .NET systems will be similar, Driver said.

"The only practical way to mitigate the risk [of a failed implementation] is to outsource development."

Despite those problems for early adopters, Gartner is predicting that by 2005, the battle for enterprise development supremacy will be a neck-and-neck two horse race, with Java and .NET each commanding around 40 percent of the market.

"Most larger organisations are going to have both platforms," said Driver. "They have become de facto standards." Both Microsoft and Sun have recently confessed to flaws in their overall strategy.

Earlier this week, Microsoft founder Bill Gates admitted that the company's promotion of .NET had been premature.

Sun meanwhile has finally managed to achieved admission to the Web Services Interoperability Organisation, but hasn't yet achieved its ambition of a board seat.

Advertisement

Talkback 37 comments

    70% percent! Nonsens!!!!! You ...Anonymous -- 16/11/02

    70% percent! Nonsens!!!!!
    You cant just throw this number at us, without telling us how you got these numbers. And you don't tell WHY they are a disaster!

    This is not news reporting, this missleading your readers! Give us the facts and not some flashy headline!

    What the hell is a "Java ...John McGrath -- 16/11/02

    What the hell is a "Java implementation?" that number is absurd on the face of it. And for most projects that tank, "the failure" (the article does a ****-poor job of defining its terms) is due to either poor project planning, or poor coding (which is almost always attributable to weak programmers, not to deficiencies in the language or framework).

    This is the problem with too much analyst "research." Make an eye catching and ridiculous statement, then flesh out your "report" with common sense nonsense -- like the obvious claims that Java and .NET will be in a "neck and neck race," that they are "de facto standards," that "Most big companies will use both". Wow -- what deep thinking, what a profound conclusions.

    Our enterprise deployment of J ...Robert Flash -- 16/11/02

    Our enterprise deployment of J2EE using WebSphere has been pretty successful.

    We use J2EE for server-side development.
    WebSphere on Solaris for our app servers.
    Oracle for our databases.

    This is such crap. Just becaus ...Anonymous -- 16/11/02

    This is such crap. Just because J2EE implementations have been failures, you expect .Net implementations to be failures as well, and therefore -- with *no* data or justification -- label it a disaster?

    It is true that some of the en ...Mirza Assad -- 16/11/02

    It is true that some of the enterprise applications have failed primarily due to poor design, but 70% is just not the right figure.

    News of this kind may mislead developers who are already having a tough time these days. Besides, it may support the rival technology.

    ZDNet Aus must publish a proof about the validity of the statement in question.

    Its the requirements which are ...Anonymous -- 16/11/02

    Its the requirements which are flawed.

    I've been working on projects of all sizes and languages and I've never seen a project fail because of the language. Projects fail primarily because of a lack of clarity on the requirements and goals of the project, and secondary, a lack of experience of the team on a specific technology.

    can you believe the FUD ? m$ h ...Anonymous -- 17/11/02

    can you believe the FUD ?
    m$ has done this with the help of trade rags again and again - 40% share each ?

    HARDLY anyone used .net here in the US and almost ALL companies including I'm sure at m$, they use java.

    Its like OS2 is dead, unix is dead, netscape is dead, Real networks is dead and so on... if the mantra is repeated often enough, it will be realized.

    Well, luckily for java and unix, the mantra hasn't worked.

    Another misinformation in this ...Anonymous -- 17/11/02

    Another misinformation in this article, Bill Gates admitted promoting Enterprise Servers under .Net Label not .Net Framework, which is the equivalent of J2EE.

    what a profound report !!!!! a ...Anonymous -- 17/11/02

    what a profound report !!!!!
    and what about C/C++ and everything else ..what is their failure rate ...
    what kind of absurd reporting is this ???

    Just becasue J2EE is a failure ...Anonymous -- 17/11/02

    Just becasue J2EE is a failure does not mean .Net is a Failure. J2EE is a failure because it does not work is is as simple as that.

    This article is really amusing ...Anonymous -- 17/11/02

    This article is really amusing. Hey Angus, just out of curiosity, what makes you qualified to write about J2EE and .NET? What is your background? I have the same question for Mark at Gartner. I just love this sort of sophistic pseudo intellectual **** How many nontrivial J2EE or .NET systems have you worked on as a project manager or engineer? Please explain to us how Java and C# cause projects to fail because of intrinsically poor language / platform design. Please explain how your "research" differentiated failed projects based on clarity of MRD, FRD, technical specification, or team domain expertise vs. platform deficiencies.

    J2EE and .Net both have good a ...Anonymous -- 18/11/02

    J2EE and .Net both have good architecture. There is no doubt about it. Problem is business is not moving as fast as technology is moving so obviously system to system communication which is the basic idea of these two technologies are not utilized fully. one more thing that we can say for failure of the systems is because starting using of technology before it's core concepts standardization(yet some of the XML areas are to be standardize). There is always failure of any systems developed in either J2EE or .Net or any other technology with conventional factors like poor design, poor management and coding improper lifecycle activities.

    To: 70% "Anonymous" ...Anonymous -- 18/11/02

    To: 70% "Anonymous"
    They say the statistic comes from gartner research.

    Wow, 70% of all Java projects ...Anonymous -- 18/11/02

    Wow, 70% of all Java projects are failing? Duh, most of ALL technology projects are failing, its not just tied to Java and .NET. Visual Basic projects fail, C++ projects fail, projects fail. When will people realize that technology X is just a tool. If you give a tool to someone unable to use it (as is the case in the vast majority of software engineering projects the world over), you can't expect miracles to happen.

    In reality there aren't that many exceptionally good software engineers out there, and those few that there are generally shy away from the large bloated poorly planned committee designed systems that make up the bulk of that 70% of software projects that are failing.

    Software development failures ...Mark Stewart -- 18/11/02

    Software development failures have little to do with the tool itself. The reason so many projects have been failures is due to people, not Java.

    "An inordinately large nu ...Anonymous -- 18/11/02

    "An inordinately large number of GARTNER PREDICTIONS have been failures" ... do we stop from using Gartner (maybe we should).

    What the clueless journalist seems to forget is that A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF ALL LARGE PROJECTS fail... PERIOD.

    The fact that Java was used in many large projects in the last few years (due to its intrinsic qualities) also implies that since many large projects fail, quite a few of them will be Java projects.

    Journalist and Gartner analyst are making wrong conclusions from a set of facts. That's not my kind of way to do analysis.

    100% of this article is a disa ...Anonymous -- 18/11/02

    100% of this article is a disaster.

    How do they define 'disaster'? ...Anonymous -- 19/11/02

    How do they define 'disaster'?

    No numbers or even an explaination of how the conclusions were arrived at. This article is hot air to get the market research company some headline space. Unfortunately this sort of rubbish is on the increases.

    Java has actually been very successful in a large number of projects. .Net will be very sucessful for Microsoft to carry on generating Windows revenue

    Is this "inordinately lar ...Anonymous Reader -- 19/11/02

    Is this "inordinately large number of large-scale Java projects"
    anecdotal or statistical? Is there any attempt to understand
    why these so-called "Java implementations" have been unsuccessful?
    And is it really true that the "The only practical way to mitigate the
    risk [of a failed implementation] is to outsource development."?

    I agree with Khoo's reply; specifically

    " Projects fail primarily because of a lack of clarity on the
    requirements and goals of the project, and secondary, a
    lack of experience of the team on a specific technology."

    with one addition - Another factor in project failure is
    poor management of the requirements and scoping phases (disconnected
    from technical reality) and poor management of the
    implementation phase (development of the system).

    This is not a Microsoft Market ...Anonymous -- 19/11/02

    This is not a Microsoft Marketing website...

    A sensationalist headline and ...Anonymous -- 19/11/02

    A sensationalist headline and unsensational article making bold statements with no substance. It's easy to put down platforms and architectures in a single catch phrase, but clearly the author is focusing on a narrow and likely misinterpreted abstract of a larger more substantial issue.

    I am amazed that anyone can already project a high failure rate of .NET systems and label this a "disaster" without any fact-based argument.

    Is this just trolling for flam ...Anonymous -- 21/11/02

    Is this just trolling for flames? Interesting premise but not enough data to make the article worth while.

    This article was a waste of ti ...Anonymous -- 21/11/02

    This article was a waste of time .
    Definetely not of any benefit to the IT community.

    Technologies like JAVA and .NE ...Anonymous -- 22/11/02

    Technologies like JAVA and .NET don't fail...companies, business plans and projections do!

    Sure servers can crash...that's why we have redundancy & load balancing...but to build a backend with JAVA or .NET which is a 'disaster' is simply bad programming

    A new WAP based Astrology service may fail even though the JAVA or .NET backend is functioning perfectly.

    It's like saying that 100% of car accidents involve cars rather than 50% are due to speeding and 50% due to bad driving

    Why complain about this specif ...Anonymous -- 29/11/02

    Why complain about this specific article containing no evidence or contrasting opinion?

    Take a look at some of the other 4 paragraph "news" articles out there. Generally they're the bounty from 5 minutes spent rewriting a press release. How else do you keep a site like this ticking along?

    Even the ones that don't dis Java contain spurious reasoning, hyperbole-based percentages and no opposing view. I'm sure the writers of this article are well pleased with the advertising hits this controversial article has generated ;)

    Imagine how effective this article would be if the Java community was universally dispassionate and objective? :P

    Smalltalk has had many large s ...Anonymous -- 18/12/02

    Smalltalk has had many large system successful implementations. It also has had some failures. This its speed of development, reduced error rate, full scale reflective capa

    Smalltalk has had many large s ...Anonymous -- 18/12/02

    Smalltalk has had many large system successful implementations. It also has had some failures. This its speed of development, reduced error rate, full scale reflective capa

    Don't complain to ZDNet - talk ...Anonymous -- 19/12/02

    Don't complain to ZDNet - talk to Gartner Group.

    ZDNet is simply reporting accurately on a report made by the Gartner Group. They also claim that 40% of all software projects fail overall yet recommend to organizations that they must switch existing projects to Java or .NET to reduce risks. What kind of sense does that make?

    Gartner's figures don't add up ...Anonymous -- 19/12/02

    Gartner's figures don't add up. Take a look at:

    http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&title=A+Summary+of+my+problems+with+the+Gartner+development+tool+analysts&entry=3217524055#3217524055

    I've expressed a fairly detail ...James Robertson -- 19/12/02

    I've expressed a fairly detailed response to Gartner's "analysis" here:

    Do Feiman and Driver make any sense?

    Well, it seems hrefs aren't ac ...James Robertson -- 19/12/02

    Well, it seems hrefs aren't actually parsed here. Here's the link I tried to reference

    http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/gartner-appdev-issues.html

    Please do not write such non-s ...Prasanna Tuladhar -- 03/01/03

    Please do not write such non-sense and misleading articles unless u have a through
    technical knowledge. The writer looked so
    ignorant and insane. (Please refer how
    www.javaworld.com and & www.theserverside.com
    writes their articles )

    The writer does not even seem to know a
    simple basic difference between Java and .Net.
    Java is a programming language and .Net is a
    framework. The writer should have been comparing
    J2EE framework and .Net.

    Finally thanks a lot for providing such a flashy headline !

    java and .net both are good pl ...Anonymous -- 06/07/03

    java and .net both are good platform for enterprise development. projects fail because of poor planning and poor vision of the company, who got the poor project manager. The Project managers always skip their developer whey design their systems.

    i think, java or .net is not very suitable for complex gui development or the programs which need to work with OS very closely. These platforms are best for business application development specialy web development.

    I agree that Java has failed t ...jtankers -- 21/11/03

    I agree that Java has failed to live up to expectations. But please do not incorrectly disparage .NET just because of Java’s failures.

    As a former Java developer and having extensive large scale development experience with .NET, I find that .NET not only exceeds my high expectations for stability, speed and ease of use but is easily the best business development and deployment environment I have ever used. Quite the opposite of ‘disaster’.

    The article, the writer, and e ...Anonymous -- 28/03/04

    The article, the writer, and even GG as quoted here in this article are not comparing apples to apples. Java is basically a programming language and should be compared to its equivalent C#. Microsoft .NET is better compared to its peer J2EE.
    As for Gartner assessments and predictions, they are always good to review for a 2nd opinion, but they are not the holy book that no one can challenge !
    This .NET vs J2EE comparison reminds with the other 'holy' wars since the seventies between TCP/IP vs SNA, Ethernet vs Token-Ring, Pepsi Cola vs Coca Cola, Dominoes vs Pizza Hut, .. etc .. etc

    Amazingly, the peers being compared in all these examples work and work very well within their pre-set specifications. It is a matter of the right selection based on our TRUE NEEDS and our own INTERNAL READINESS to make the most out of what we select.

    Advanced technologies at this sophistication level are not push-button/out-of-the-box wizards. Real-life case studies have always demonstrated the fact that success/failure, while partly attributed to the right/wrong selection of technologies & vendors, is mostly an indication of internal failures within the organization and the project itself.

    about yhis blunderous article Mukul Katare -- 07/09/08

    In my company all big enterperise projects are on the java and they are highly suceesfulmay be .net projects will fails sometimes

Add your opinion

Latest Videos

Sponsored content

Power Centre - Content from our premier sponsors

Blogs

  • Suzanne Tindal Love me, tender
    Considering how expensive and drawn-out tender processes can be to solve problems that might be very immediate, it's little wonder that the Victorian Police IT department tried to work the tender exemptions system.
  • Array 2009 funding drought rolls on
    For Australian start-ups looking for venture capital, 2009 was a very bad year. 2010 may be no better.
  • Array Can not-so-smart meters help the NBN?
    It was interesting to witness Conroy's recent enthusiasm to spruik the NBN's role in supporting the Smart Grid, Smart City initiative. What a pity that Conroy hadn't yet seen the damning report from the Victorian auditor-general about that state's smart-meter roll-out.
  • More blogs »

Tags

Back to top

Featured