Discrimination common for IT applicants: survey

Discrimination against older and female IT workers is still prevalent in the workplace, according to a survey of industry professionals.

Results of the Australian Computer Society's (ACS) annual ICT employment survey found 20 percent of respondents claimed they had been discriminated on the basis of age at some time in their career.

Over 900 ACS members completed the survey. The Society has about 14,000 members.

Of those IT workers discriminated due to their age, the survey found those aged 45 years or older to be the most likely victims.

As a result, many of these workers were self-employed.

This could not be allowed to continue, according to the ACS.

"As the population ages and skilled workers become scarcer it will be important to ensure workers do not face age discrimination,"
said the ACS in the survey.

"We cannot afford to assume that people will be prepared to take the self-employed option to continue to meet the needs of ICT employers."

ACS president Philip Argy said the level of discrimination was concerning.

However, he was hopeful an industry code of ethics could reduce the problem, with support from state governments. The ACS issued a national statement on ICT issues for state governments earlier this year, and is trying to find support.

The level of age discrimination in the industry had fallen when compared with the 2004 survey though. Almost 30 percent of respondents to the 2004 survey had experienced age discrimination. This was not measured in the 2005 survey.

Also common in the 2006 survey was sex discrimination, with 37 percent of female respondents claiming their gender had created problems at the workplace.

These female respondents were "more likely" to be hourly contract workers or students, said the survey.

Only 1.3 percent of male respondents cited sex discrimination experiences.

Other findings of the survey included ICT unemployment levels falling to 5.1 percent.

This was the lowest level in many years, according to the ACS, only 0.3 percent above the national average unemployment figure.

Almost 70 percent of survey respondents were full-time employees.

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Talkback 25 comments

    Discrimination Anonymous -- 19/09/06

    Only 14% females in IT, that should provide a message to some, it is darn hard to play in the sandpit in this industry. The recent release of a calendar showing women in IT (IT Goddesses) in suggestive poses does not help either.

    Having been recently retrenched from one of the big 3, I was told that it would be difficult to find another job being over 40 and female. And so I am contracting. The pay I am getting now is lousy compared to my male peers, and I bring decades of experience to the table.

    The industry is rife with old boys clubs, slipstreaming eachother from one company to the other. Managers favor folks who are like them and so you perpetuate a problem.

    Ageism is rife! Robert Mettam -- 19/09/06

    I am one of the most experienced contract IT professionals in Australia, with decades of development experience on everything from mainframe to web - but I have been barely able to get even a flicker of response to my cover letters and professionally prepared resume over the past 6 weeks.
    At least, that was the case until I removed all dates that went back past 1989! Now I'm starting to get responses and interviews are being scheduled.
    The pollies can rave on all they like about the need to keep experience in the workplace, but until they convince the employment agencies then nothing will happen!

    Not just ageism Anonymous -- 22/09/06 (in reply to #320069794)

    Robert, I agree. What bugs me as well is the so called skills crisis. My experience is that yes, the Agencies and employers want the skills, but they do not wish to pay for those skills.

    I've been on interviews for roles where the skills asked, far outweighed the job description and remuneration. Calling a BMW an entry level car, it does not help in addressing issues in attracting and retaining skilled staff.

    The next person who asks for an experienced Project Manager for 4 weeks will get it from me too, there are attitudes in situ in the market with both employers and agencies that encourage innate discrimination.

    Discrimination for IT applicants Irene -- 25/09/06 (in reply to #320069854)

    I was told to change my resume to say "more than 10 years experience" instead of "more than 20". The agency also told me to remove the dates from my degree and group all jobs before 1990 in a pre-1990 section. When will people realise that an experienced person can learn new technology in a couple of months but it takes years for someone who knows the new technology to gain experience in the business and IT world? Why isn't our indsutry utilising the skills that experienced people can bring? If there really is a skills shortage and they are trying to attract girls to IT, why not start by making it easier for Mums to keep working if they want to? Why is it so difficult to find part-time work in IT? There's no point in trying to attract girls to the IT industry if they can't or won't stay once they have families. Work life balance is more than going to the pub with colleagues on a Friday night after a regular week of 50-60 hours! Does anyone out there want a hard-working, intelligent, responsible IT professional with MORE THAN 20 YEARS experience in applications development on a part-time basis?

    You're a baby boomer, that's why..... Anonymous -- 06/10/06 (in reply to #320069879)

    The Boomers have the bludge ethic downpat. They've has it so easy all their lives that they're nothing but trouble whenever everything doesn't go 100% their way.

    Lets face it, an over 50 hire is just punching the clock until retirement, have little to offer and have been immersed in a slacker, the-world-owes-us , shirker culture all their 'working" lives. Add to that the higher likelihood of other work problems such as sexual harassment of co-workers, drinking problems, marriage breakups and a generally poor work ethic and it's no wonder no-one wants them.

    Unfortunately for them though it looks like most of them will be working into their 70's to pay for their heart bypass operations........poetic justice.

    Out with the old, in with the new. Anonymous -- 13/10/06 (in reply to #320069794)

    Its life.

    Get over it. Perhaps try learning the required skills while your at it.

    Face it you have been de-skilled by the new blood.

    Give yourself a rap mate! Anonymous -- 19/10/06 (in reply to #320069794)

    Describing yourself as "I am one of the most experienced contract IT professionals in Australia" is probably a good indicator as to why you can't get a job.

    If you are so great and so experienced, why are you having to go to interviews? Anyone who has been around this game long enough knows that if you are indeed great at what you do, then you should have the contacts to get a job without having to apply and go through interviews.

    Why do baby boomers always use the ageism excuse? I think you will find that many IT grads find it just as difficult to get a foot in the door as you are finding it to get a job now.

    Have the oldies here complaining considered moving to Canberra where they are crying out for contractors and experienced project managers? Or would that be too difficult?

    I agree..... Anonymous -- 21/10/06 (in reply to #320070511)

    If they were so good what are they doing waiting on tables now then ?

    Sounds like someone has an over-inflated idea of their own worth.

    You Stupid Mysogynist Anonymous -- 05/10/06

    What an incredibly sexist, stupid, ignorant and arrogant attitude.
    I have worked with and served with many women who are the polar opposite of that statement.

    woooopdy doooo........ Anonymous -- 06/10/06 (in reply to #320070065)

    ..how many?, 4?, 5 ?...

    You're just talking PC garbage.....women aren't in IT or Engineering or goddamn Particle Physics in a big way because they're not interested unless it involves fashion or makeup.

    Don't they have Cleo in your doctors waiting room? Have a look what the "intelligent woman" fills her head with.......

    Anyway, proof of the pudding is in the eating, that's why you're on the outside looking in.

    Have a lovely day!

    What a load of rubbish Anonymous -- 13/10/06 (in reply to #320070112)

    I have worked with hundreds of intelligent women. Most of whom who would outscore you in any test!

    Nb: FYI I am on the inside as a tertiary qualified professional.

    You poor bitter twisted idiot!

    And how do you know that ? Anonymous -- 16/10/06 (in reply to #320070287)

    Again..talking out your b*m.

    And no, a Cert 4 in "Advanced Word/Excel and Other Compoooter struffs" doesn't count as a tertiery education,

    *bzzzzzt*...thanks for coming...clown

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20586168-5000117,00.html

    Women don't get paid the same bucks because they're generally lazy and not technical....read it and weep chump !!!!

    You have no idea Anonymous -- 17/10/06 (in reply to #320070112)

    You're pretty stupid if you think that women are only interested in something if it involves fashion or makeup.
    I think part of the reason more women don't / can't get into industries such as IT is because of people like you that carry that out-dated typified stigma of women.
    While i was studying (a diploma of IT - just to save you from embarrassing yourself with the cert 4 thing again..) there were so many circumstances where women were treated as though they knew nothing and even given the advice that they'd be more interested in fashion or something like graphic design.
    Many women are far more motivated than men to succeed in their occupation and most often than not have a higher drive to succeed due to the challenges they face with arrogant creeps like you.

    That's just sooooooooooooooooo 1995.... Anonymous -- 21/10/06 (in reply to #320070396)

    There's few women in IT because they're just not interested.

    hey, wow, newsflash!! There's not many guys into sewing or needlework...BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST NOT INTERESTED!

    So take your victimhood elsewhere, it's just so passe...

    "Oh, look at me, I didn't get it all handed to me on a plate, the MAN is keeping me down!..I'm a victim, a victim I tell you !.......................................lets just forget the fact that I suck at it..ok?, ok??".

    ooooooooooooooo.. a Diploma.....wow...how impressive....tell you what, here, take 30 cents, go get a 5 year undergrad degree, follow that up with a Masters and then possibly think about some higher research work and then give me a call...................see you in 2019 !

    ok Anonymous -- 24/10/06 (in reply to #320070634)

    As long as that's the quickest way to become an arrogant, know-it-all prick like you then i might aswell try that.

    Funny...seems no-one else agrees with you... Anonymous -- 16/10/06 (in reply to #320070065)

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20586168-5000117,00.html

    Oh, sorry Bettina is obviously a mysoginist in drag then, jhuh?..huh????

    Q.E.D (feel free to Google that)..

    Ageism Anonymous -- 13/10/06

    I have to say I am under 40 and have recruited several people in the 48 - 56 bracket in the last few years (It is also true I have not recruited many applicants as well). Looking back when I was 30 and fortunate enough to be in a senior position the of the 3 senior managers I recruited two were over 50 and the other was 35 (female). I have to say from my experience it was very positive and anybody who does not look at this age category is missing out on significant experience. They still work in the same company and 2 of the 3 have progressed into different areas and all are excellent performers. I am almost bias to the older staff because they can bring the “grey” hair factor to the table for me, an executive in the younger age bracket.

    I appologse in advance for the gross generalizations I have absolutely have found that many of this generation do not interview as well, and despite lots on the ground experience are not good at producing resumes nor getting through the first interviews. This is particularly the case when it comes to older technical works be it applications or infrastructure, in summary terrible terrible interviews and resumes in general. I have had to personally change my interview style to compensate for this to ensure I am not losing the right person. I could go on for every on some of the key points but I am sure most of you have fallen asleep by this stage so I will not.

    I would also recommend that you look at the recruiting companies as I find they can be significantly at fault in this are by pre-vetting people, despite the “positive message” they give the applicant.

    The positive is from a selfish persons point of view is that the fact people skip over certain generations, at both extremes the young and older workers I have found beneficial as it means I am more likely to find them when I need it.

    baby boomer steve mgregor -- 13/10/06

    and staff in their 20's and 30's dont have relationship breakups or drinking problems either ? probably add elicit drugs to that too if you want to really generalise, or isnt that what your comment was about ?

    I don't think so.. Anonymous -- 14/10/06 (in reply to #320070284)

    I think what the poster means is that people in their 30's (Gen X) have a better work ethic and are more productive than either the Boomers or the young ones coming along now (who share the Boomers good times and will emulate them through their lives).

    When you're bought up in an environment of plenty as the Boomers were and as the kids of today are, it's easy to think of that as the norm and to go around with your hand out expecting everything to go your way.

    We hear stories of snotty nosed brats demanding 65k/year starting salaries and of aging Boomers incessantly whining about how they got laid off, can't just walk into a job anymore and so on. It's all a big cycle and the Boomers are now starting to realise what drama they've got themselves into. I do side with the X'ers when they say they're not going to fund the previous carefree, wasting generation. If the Boomers can't pay for their own heart bypasses, well, that's just too bad, isn't it?

    So stop whining and just face it, you'll be eating petfood for the next 20 years, should have thought about that 20 years ago huh?

    Excellent post, spot on ! Anonymous -- 16/10/06 (in reply to #320070298)

    My thoughts exactly.

    Won't it be fun when the Grey Nomads et al check into hospital only to be told they're using up a bed that could be taken by a productive member of society and unless they can write out a cheque for $100k right now thank you then, well, sir had better investigate other options, won't sir ?

    it's the way it's going now anyway......the trouble is, it's going to take the industrious, victory-against-all-odds, Just Do IT Gen X'rs a long time to repair the damage 6 million bludging ex-hippes are doing and will continue to do until they finally start disappearing.

    Oh well, lets hope they're not banking on fully funded healthcare until they're 70 then the comfy all expenses paid nursing home...... I think we should bring in a "work for the Pension" scheme..

    ...it's only fair....

    Mr Black Anonymous -- 19/10/06 (in reply to #320070331)

    Generation X is made up of cynical, hopeless, frustrated and unmotivated slackers who wear grunge clothing, listen to alternative music and still live at home because they cannot get real jobs.

    Sure hippy..... Anonymous -- 21/10/06 (in reply to #320070503)

    ....now don't be talking back to your betters, and if your X'r boss finds you slacking off again reading that thar Interweb from the depot computer it'll be back to the janitors cupboard for you !

    Now, hop to it, white with two sugars please!.... quickly now!

    No one really cares what you think... Anonymous -- 19/10/06

    This is a most entertaining exchange of ideas, but why post to anonymous internet forums trying to get your ideas across to people you don't know and that don't care about what you have to say?

    No one really cares.

    Uh huh.... Anonymous -- 21/10/06 (in reply to #320070512)

    ... hook, line, sinker..........

    Ageism is rife Anonymous -- 23/10/06

    Anyone who thinks ageism doesn't happen in corporate Australia is either ignorant or in denial.

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