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ZDNet / Filter / Story
Largest ISPs left out of filter list
Communications Minister Stephen Conroy this afternoon announced the names of six ISPs that will participate in the Federal Government's internet filter trial — but the nation's largest ISPs are not on the list.
Stephen Conroy
(Credit: DBCDE)
Primus Telecommunications, Tech 2U, Webshield, OMNIconnect, Netforce and Highway 1 are set to take part in the six week 'live' ISP filtering tests.
The list notably lacks the country's largest ISPs, such as Telstra and Internode, which had indicated to ZDNet.com.au in December last year that they would not take part in the trials. iiNet, which had said it would take part to prove the technology didn't work, was also left off the list.
The tests with the six ISPs announced today will look at the "efficiency and effectiveness" of a range of filtering products that were tested in closed trials at Telstra last year. The tests will also assess how easily the filters are circumvented as well as the impact on internet speeds.
Customers of the six ISPs will be able to choose whether they want to be included in the trial, according to Conroy's statement.
The tests will have two streams: ACMA's blacklist of banned URLs, and one that tests the effectiveness of filtering non-web protocols, such as peer to peer networks. Optus, which said it would participate in the web filtering trials, had also said it would not participate in the latter one.
Conroy today acknowledged the concerns aired by industry and civil rights groups.
"The government is well-aware of technical concerns about ISP filtering and that is why we are conducting a pilot, to put these claims to the test," Conroy said.
While he admitted that the filtering tests would not be a "silver bullet", Conroy stuck to the argument that the tests met the government's evidence-based approach to the filtering proposal.
"The live pilot will provide evidence on the real-world impacts of ISP content filtering, including for providers and internet users. It will provide evidence to assist the Government in the implementation of its policy," he said.
"ISP filtering is no silver bullet and the government is implementing a comprehensive set of measures to combat online threats."
See ZDNet.com.au's Twisted Wire podcast for more on this topic.
Related stories
Talkback
Inaccurate pilot
How exactly is a pilot involving five relatively small ISPs and one medium-sized ISP going to provide accurate statistics? You cannot filter an ISP with a client base of 1,000 and then assume that the same results will apply to a Telstra-sized ISP. This trial will only create false facts that will support the government's ridiculous filtering plan.
Anonymous February 11th, 2009you hit the nail on the head...
thats the plan
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Inaccurate pilot
Primus is hardly "medium sized": It is in the top 3.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009iPrimus is in the top 3?
According to many recent articles, the top 3 are:
- Telstra
- Optus
- iiNet
... and in the member statistics on Whirlpool iPrimus comes in a distant #14.
Anonymous February 13th, 2009rofl
This is how they plan to 'show' it 'works' without any 'issues'...
Anonymous February 12th, 2009CONROY IS A NooB
Man, I really hate conroy....
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Can't agree more
what's more, i can't believe i liked him more than coonan back in the election. I'll take her back anyday.
seriously...the day we actually get someone who knows how to turn a computer on in the top job for the government IT portfolio will be a wonderful day.
Nathan February 12th, 2009Conroy is a hypocrite
I reckon he is the one downloading p0rn making it worst for all of us. damn n00b
Coonan was by far better. At least the woman knew where her place was.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Na, just a god botherer
This is the filtering that God wants us to have. Anyone one who is against it must be un-Australian and anti-God.
davo February 13th, 2009Gazing into the crystal ball...
I can see how this is going to pan out...
1. No customers choose to be included in the trials.
2. Senator Clueless crows "Successful trials! Filtering has zero impact on speeds"
3. All ISPs are forced to implement it.
4. Everyone's Internet runs like frozen molasses.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Visionary
You, sir, are a visionary!
Anonymous February 12th, 2009What a joke
Well, if this plan wasn't already proven to be ridiculous and technically unfeasable, we now have this news. Remove this idiot from office and get someone in that actually has a clue.
Let's hope Conroy falls on his own sword and the rest of the communis.... labor party thrown this stupid plan out.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009P2P blocking = faster internet
Blocking P2P has two advantages. It will stop wholesale illegal copying and downloading of music and films. The second advantage is that it will result in faster internet for everyone due to the massive congestion caused by P2P downloading on our existing telecom infrastructure.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Uh, no
There are so many problems with blocking P2P:
* P2P file-sharing is used legitimately too (Linux distributions, game updates)
* P2P can be encrypted, making it indistinguishable from VPN, VoIP, and SSL traffic - and those things are utterly essential to telecommuting, modern telephony, and e-commerce respectively.
* P2P is not responsible for congestion, it just means that whoever is responsible for the link that is congested, needs to upgrade the link. P2P can actually be used to reduce congestion across expensive links, since people near each other can now share files, avoiding expensive international transit.
* People will still trade in illegal music and films, they were doing it before the Internet
* You can't expect to block it on privately-run networks that aren't involved with any ISPs.
(I work at an ISP; though I'm speaking from my own experience and not talking on behalf of my employer)
Anonymous February 12th, 2009What he said.
Blocking P2P will cause more problems than it solves. Bad idea.
Small ISPs = ineffective load testing = invalid test result.
No iiNet = Conroy knows it won't work, doesn't want to have them prove it to him.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009This is set to fail
Using unheard of ISP's with a customer base of 2 and Primus, I mean, Reallly?? There is no way that is going to provide a 'reliable report' on the ability.
Give it up Conroy. You have no idea about the internet.
Muddy February 12th, 2009iiNet
I'm not surprised iiNet was dumped. They were the most vocal about being willing to expose this idiotic filter for the con job it is.
If Senator Conroy genuinely believes the filter will work, what better way to prove it to the world than by bringing its strongest critic into the trial and making them eat their words?
One of the biggest fears of the filter is the throughput impact on the Internet, yet with only bit players involved in the trial, how is any useful load testing to be achieved?
The trial, like the senator himself, is nothing but a waste of time.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Conroy
How dare he slip this in during bush fires the sneaky bugger.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009If P2P was blocked...
imagine the business that rapidshare/megaupload will be getting instead of it.. whichever way you cut it, people will still find ways to get around blocks.. If people pirate your movies/tv shows, whatever, maybe its because your business model sucks.. Who wants to pay $50 to go see a movie with the family.. who wants to pay $30 for a dvd.. who wants to put up with networks playing hot potato with your favourite tv show.. I think its the government that should take a hard look at why people pirate stuff, rather than placing sole blame on pirates.. If media companies actually made it affordable and easy to get what they want, i'm sure piracy figures would plummet (you'll always get people who pirate, fact of life really).. If you've bought a dvd or a cd, and it becomes damaged, or if you've got a dvd of a good movie you now want to own on bluray, why should you have to rebuy it all over again.. Thats fine, RIAA/MPAA, you've only got yourself to blame for high piracy rates..
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Waste of time & our money....
I'm sure thousands have been wasted already on consultancy fees etc, but why not cut the losses, call it unworkable & give the allocated money to the Bushfire victims.
Steve B February 12th, 2009Cost effective solution
How about just removing the DNS entries for child porn web servers. No additional infrastructure will be required and the Government's requirements will be met. Use the rest of the money for something useful like supporting the bushfire victims.
JC February 12th, 2009Nice idea but I doubt it will work
People will avoid using DNS and might go direct to IP addresses instead. Then people will have to try and block them, playing catch up all the time, whilst the offenders change IP and legitimate people are given a blocked IP address.
The way to combat child porn is similar to drugs. Unfortunately harm minimisation and proactive strategies to prevent it early on in peoples lives are the only solution.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Quality selections
What a complete and utter farce. Tech 2U looks like a QUALITY ISP... Their web page must have been developed in the early "frames & links table" stage of the 'net.
I can almost guarantee that these ISPs will be applying for (and amazingly, receiving) Government grants...
Oh, and look, how convenient - Webshield are already using a damned filter!!
Anonymous February 12th, 2009Goes with the name
CON(roy)...and that's what it is.
Anonymous February 12th, 2009I call shenanigans!
The ISPs participating in this trial are giving their users the option to opt-in. It is not a blind trial.
This will mean that the majority of participants will already be in favor of the filter, therefore skewing the results before the trial has even completed. The advocates of this filter do not want to take into account any technical limitations of the system, so any slowdown or false positives are likely to be ignored at the user level for the sake of pushing this through ASAP.
This process is a complete and utter farce. Save the children? Bah! More like save the ALP from struggling to push policy through without Steven Fielding.
Anonymous February 12th, 20093rd World Internet
The fact that the government is spending money on filtering systems is comical; they already have an outstanding plan to limit piracy and pornography.... Our appalling internet speeds in this country are doing a sterling job of limiting how much illegal activity can occur.
A good example is my grandmother in Germany. She has a faster internet connection than my employer; she pays 60 Euros a month he pays $7500 per month.
What the hell is that, if the labour party was truly communist as one idiot mentioned, they would nationalise the industry and force technology upgrades to bring us into line with the developed world, for an area that is supposed to be key infrastructure, and not leave it to the squabling masses of self important and self interested ISP's.
Guy l33ch February 12th, 2009...if p2p was blocked
I agree,.
The notion of IP has changed over the years, however the way the entertainment industry treats it's consumers has not, they force people into urealistic pricing structures, for what value they actually provide, they cross promote and advertise at every opportunity, yet still levy heafty charges on the consumers. You can only push people so far, people are opting to fight back, instead of targeting the people look more closely at entertainment cartels, and their practices that border that of colusion.
Tom T Engine February 12th, 2009Isp internet filter
As always, the government will fudge the results,to "prove" the filter works, when ,as any savvy person knows ,it's B.....IT. We should be demanding the opposition defeat it in Parliament.
Geoff Ray February 12th, 2009What about censorship??
I agree with most of the comments on speed etc being affected but a more pressing concern is the issue of censorship - who is making the decisions as to what should be filtered? This whole trial is a complete and utter joke - head over to GetUp.org and donate some $$ - best $100 I ever spent!
Anonymous February 12th, 2009HMM
Sounds like a lot of Liberal voting people on here, so please remind me of how Labor ruined our telecoms infrastructure? I thought they inherited this crap from the guys who sold Telstra to make their budgets look better?
I am on a 150 gig plan and do plenty of downloading, I am against this filtering idea as much as the next guy but ffs!! This is something that has been in Parliament discussions well before the last election.
The only people that won't be able to download due to filter will be Tech- Illiterate... and I thought this was a Tech site?
I am already viewing content and media not available to Australia.
If the plan goes ahead there will be a way around it before the plan even goes to action, the Govt have a better chance of banning alcohol than trying to filter net content.
Spam is banned and who doesn't get spam? Releasing viruses is illegal also and as everyone knows, there are no viruses around.
I agree and everyone should agree with this statement
"seriously...the day we actually get someone who knows how to turn a computer on in the top job for the government IT portfolio will be a wonderful day." Yes indeed
Anonymous February 12th, 2009ALP Tossa
To all ya all who voted ALP last election, this is what you get. N00bs like Conroy who has little for brains and the snake re-emerged K-rudd, where he always lick his lips.....they are all **** for brains. ALP is the most useless party ever
Anonymous February 12th, 2009RE: ALP Tossa
At least theres no Johny boy around..... the president bush suckup...., he would've done something similar if given the chance
As long as it gets blocked in the senate i'm happy, unless liberals support it then blame is on them as well
Anonymous February 12th, 2009parents who wont take responsibility and civil liberty
Well..here we go more removal of democracy following on from Howards autocratic reign (self-important megalomaniac) . Now the so called peoples Labour continues removal of Australian democracy. We have more media control and censorship than the US or UK.!! Nothing to be proud of
As for censoring the Internet you are crippling the very advantage of the internet, that it represents freedom of speech. I dont agree with the extreme content but I do not agree with the communistic practice (China, other Asian countries) where big brother aka our ISP filters what we as adults view!!!
Just because many parents can't be bothered taking responsibiity for keeping their children away from porn, we hae a simplistic draconian rule for all adults. Definitely an infringement of civiil liberties.We should be appealing to the UN on right of access to information on the net. Australia has one of the worst records when it comes to hush ups - think wheatboard fiasco shutting up the public servants,
We have to stop this filter happening and yes it will slow Australian already slowest in the world so called fast internet speed. Also it will impact on the real growth of the internet as a business application and research tool. Why..because some dumb software will screen innocent words taken out of context
Say no or the interntet looses its free nature, it will just progress from here
Anonymous February 12th, 2009re ALP Tossa
Johnny boy as you described him, certainly did not suck up to Bush any more than Rudd. And he never sucked up to the Australian public like Rudd (who is pathetic) does.
Anonymous February 19th, 2009Labor Tossa no less worse than the Lib cronies - so glad to see the back of them
Re Labor a bad choice I dont think so. This is not a popular choice. EVerything else has not been their faullt
You dont need to be a rocket scientist or economist to work out inflation does not suddenly appear. Howard ignored 20 warnings from the Reserve Bank of Australia (who are thought to know more on monetary policy and what is best for the economy). Interesting how the libs lagging along as beaten soldiers who still dont get why they lost (Turnback re knocking back the stimulus policy, the only knockback in OECD countries!) and his loyal right hander Julie Bishop, who plagarises to write speeches (must never have attended university since this is a severe sin punishable with being kicked out of uni on your **** You then gives to our EA who has to then write her plagiarised "original" supposedly representing the new (read recycled, repackaged but still the same out of touch Howard reactive cronism pro-free economy, screw the working class mentality).
No, Labor are not worse they inherited a mess of an economy, superheated inflation from the LIbs. In addition Howard shut his eyes to the potential revenue from getting into green energy. The idiot even said 6 months before the election that carbon gases did not contribute that much to greenhouse. No idea same for the Nuclear marketers. Nuclear power is not safe, refer to Three mile Island in New York in the 70s, Sellar field in England that had leaks leading to local families having kids with genetic mutations, 1 arm or other weird radiation effects (workers exposed to radiation levels have their genes changed which is carried through to the baby) Incidentally Nuclear power would first of all require a lot more electricity stations than we have now so costly
Then nuclear power would not reduced the rate of greenhouse warming in enough time or make as significant a contribution as geothermal energy (from rocks) which Australia has a lot of occurring "old' rocks. Solar makes absolute sense with our weather and climate. Instead the government (Lib) not only does not subsidise solar industry but it even competes by setting up its own solar commercial ventures. Now many solar and wind companies have deserted our shores long before the despot Howard and his motley crew including Turnbull (represents teh investment bankers who caused the global mess with their greed!) and his wanna be Vice PM Julia Bishop.
So..I think Labor are doing a far better job, no one could see this global receisson coming. The libs with their refusal to address inflation, climate change and Australias growing class divide plus their total ignorance on the chronic skills shortage ...made Australia weaker as this global recession hit and it has hit Australia now for the past several months..mine shutdowns, hundreds layed off major blue chip companies, constant retail sales , 50% off and hardly anyone is still buying is more than a downturn unless you want to play semantics..the word game. Don't its not worth it! Face the situation and begin to address it
Anonymous February 12th, 2009re Labor Tossa no less worse than the Lib cronies - so glad to see the back of t
Such baloney...............your whole diatribe.
Anonymous February 14th, 2009@such baloney
I thought it sounded ok.
But then I'm not soft ***k Liberal stooge, like you.
Anonymous February 14th, 2009@such baloney
That is obvious....you are just stupid.
Anonymous February 16th, 2009Offshore ISP's
As soon as the filter comes online, I will be signing up with an offshore ISP, probably Newzealand or some place.
More money going offshore during a time of economic uncertainty, awesome.
Sometimes I think that the Australian Government is deliberately attempting to ruin this country, seriously.
tyga February 13th, 2009But why this election promise?
This was a minor plank in the platform to keep onside the righteous. Most such promises are quietly shelved, modified out of recognition, or made the subject of a long enquiry until the next election. So why are they keeping this one alive?
Perhaps the worst aspect of the plan is that the list of blocked sites is secret, and not subject to unbiased review or open appeal process.
Anonymous February 13th, 2009the church agenda
If you went to church occaisonally, you would be much better informed about what is happening. This has nothing to do with China but everything to do with making this great country a decent place to live. Cleaning up entertainment and access to the right information is the first step in getting back to the kind of Australia we used to have. Really just a tag team between Howard and Rudd - we are now in stage two of a three stage program, the education phase.
Final stage is to change criminal laws to ensure Gods laws are obeyed.
Anonymous February 13th, 2009Church Agenda
While it may be being driven through the churches, these people are just useful idiots. Governments around the world are looking at how they preserve official truths. The UK under new labor are also looking at their great wall. Germany is another classic case as they struggle to avoid evidence based historical analysis of parts of their past.
The child porn is the leadin to censoring hate speech or protecting various groups from the consequences of their actions.
The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. (Adolf Hitler)
Anonymous February 16th, 2009Tech2u a scam?
What I find funny is that tech2u one of the ones in the trial has slower plans that cost more than Telstra. Who is with this company his mum: http://secure.tech2u.com.au/products/homeadsl_internet.html
Their webmail Illoha mail is so out of date it has more holes than the liberals knowledge of the way the intenet works: http://webmail.tech2u.com.au/
And their "secure" page is using an expired certificate signed with the now pronounced dead MD5 hash: https://secure.tech2u.com.au/
Take that and their web design being from the 90's and it seems like an odd setup for a legitimate company.
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Which ISP's ??
Apart from Primus, i have never heard of any of those ISP's, and i have a fair knowledge of the industry. What is the govt going to learn from a bunch of 2 bit ISP's who have no siginificant infrastructure or customer base?
Although it could be good...
Although it could be good...
"All 4 of our customers hated the clean feed, mostly because it didn't work"
tricky
they are doing it so that when it doeSn't work there is not 1000's of mad people yelling. this way there will only be 100's, and with numbers like they it most likely wont make the news. just like it didn't all of last year.
i think its great that they are pushing this forwed while the bush fires are on to try and hide it from the public