Internode: leave us, but it's not our fault

Related gallery

Optus: 20 years in photos

Optus: 20 years in photos

Re-tweeted by

Internode's managing director Simon Hackett has said he understands that his company will lose customers to BigPond because the internet service provider's ADSL2+ broadband plans using Telstra ports continue to be more expensive than the telco's retail prices, but added that he isn't prepared to go broke selling plans lower than Telstra Wholesale's (TW) cost price.

Price Squeeze

(Squeeze if you feel pain image by Artotem, CC2.0)

In July, Internode and fellow internet service provider (ISP) iiNet lodged a complaint with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) over a recent drop in price for a number of BigPond's ADSL2+ plans causing a "price squeeze". The drop in price meant that the cost for a retailer to gain access to an ADSL2+ port from Telstra Wholesale was more than a customer would pay on the average BigPond ADSL2+ broadband plan. In order to remain competitive with BigPond, retailers would effectively have to sell their broadband plans to customers at below cost price.

In a few lengthy posts on broadband enthusiast site Whirlpool yesterday, Hackett said that while the company was sad to lose customers to BigPond while it waited for Telstra to bring its wholesale price into line, he wasn't prepared to go broke by offering plans below the ISP's current cost price.

"Right now, we've adjusted our TW-based port pricing ... plans to be as good as it can be, given our current underlying costs from TW. Any lower and we'd be losing money on every new sale (and inward plan change) concerned, right now," he said. "We'll be in a position to revise our Telstra port-based plan pricing once TW provide a commercially acceptable revision to their source costs — something we continue to work with them toward them doing so, on a daily basis."

"In the meantime, if you feel that Internode value has got unacceptably worse on TW ports just because BigPond are temporarily 'better' and if you feel you must support the people responsible for creating this problem instead of Internode in this interim period ... that is entirely up to you, it's not up to us.

"We'll be sad that you leave, but we'll also completely understand — and we'll look forward to competing for your business more effectively again once the price squeeze is over," he added.

Hackett said Telstra had indicated that the wholesale price may be revised "soon", but there was no specific timetable given.

"We've been promised a commercially acceptable offer by TW 'next week' for the last several weeks. I'm personally optimistic that one of these 'next weeks' soon will be the one where that actually happens," he said.

For Hackett, there was only one way to avoid this situation in the future.

"An NBN [National Broadband Network], implemented properly (and without weakening the promised 'wholesale only, level playing field' aspect of it) holds out some hope for ultimately addressing that situation," he said.

Telstra spokesperson Craig Middleton told ZDNet Australia that the company was in negotiations with Internode, but was not interested in a public battle on what is a private and confidential negotiation.

"Broadband is a very competitive market and Telstra Wholesale is committed to making sure that its commercial offers are attractive to wholesale customers and competitive to the market," he added.

Talkback

Why the ACCC does not give this a higher priority than the witch hunt against an Optus advert is beyond me.

cashcowcashcow September 8th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+16) (-5)

Another reason why Telstra should be disqualified from any involvement with the NBN.

And as cashcow said, the ACCC should be more focused on matters like this.

mikesheenmikesheen September 8th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+8) (-2)

Internode can be just as ruthless at telstra. They could've offered better extreme plans a long time ago, but only have now due to competition from telstra. So regardless of telstra whoelsale pricing, their own Agile pricing as been over priced for years too.

MashspudMashspud September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+3) (-3)

I am going to churn to Bigpond the people responsible for this. I prefer the money goes into my pocket than Node's.

kanavelkanavel September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (0) (-5)

If Internode does not like Telstra Wholesale ADSL2+ pricing then go to another wholesaler, oh that's right they do they use Optus, and Optus have stopped their DSLAM rollout, so Internode are ever more dependent on Telstra for the exchange spread.

Perhaps they need to pressure their 'wholesale partner' to start up their DSLAM rollout again, not likely as Optus is keeping its hands in its pockets waiting to resell taxpayer funded NBN, so that's Telstra's fault?

Even so there are other ADSL2+ wholesalers other than Optus Internode could use, I see the iiNet wholesale spread is very good!

advocateadvocate September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+1) (-4)

@ advocate +1

I fully aggree with your arugument, why is everyone going Telstra is sticking it to us, when Australias 2nd largest ISP (iiNet) has there own Wholesale ports that Internode could use?

amckernamckern September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+1) (-4)

One wonders why anyone would even bother to report on anything that is said by this tiny little ISP. Let's put this in perspective, Internode is struggling to get 250,000 customers, Telstra has more than 4 million! Therefore the retail arm of Telstra is generating at least 16 times the revenue, compared to this tiny little ISP. Of course Telstra retail's buy price should be lower than Internode. Volume based pricing has always been the case in the "real" business world.

Internode, as usual, are simply whinging that they don't know how to compete and typically want a totally regulated industry where ALL ISP's pay the same costs regardless of customer base.

To suggest that Telstra is somehow "price squeezing" them is just laughable, why would Telstra even care about this tiny ISP? It never will or could compete against Telstra and naturally it will disappear come the NBN as it simply will not be able to compete.

InternobodyInternobody September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+3) (-37)

TW pricing is an obvious underhanded ploy by Telstra at a mass customer grab with their new plans. I am very reluctant to go with such a company on these grounds, unfortunately not all customers have any idea how this market works and thus would blindly switch to Telstra.

The ACCC investigation is indeed dragging which ultimately allows the Telstra customer base to grow, it is an act of true monopolistic genius and alas the damage is already done, the ACCC outcome is irrelevant in this case. – This fact also needs to be taken into consideration by the ACCC which I highly doubt would happen.

A customer on a TW only port getting ripped via Helstra for the best part of a decade.

AzzXAzzX September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+6) (-4)

"TW pricing is an obvious underhanded ploy by Telstra at a mass customer grab with their new plans."

You mean BigPond pricing not TW pricing, and have you read the conditions on the so called cheap BigPond plans before you can buy them, it's called the BigPond Multiple Product benefit, a 24 month contract, a Telstra Homeline phone plan connected to your residence, one other service like FoxTel or a Telstra mobile post pay plan with a combined monthly spend of $89. ouch!

Internode for obvious reasons doesn't mention them, I am sure the ACCC will take them into account though.

BigPond are trying to do something because they are bleeding fixed line customers to other competitors like Internode at end of contract, I am sure Internode would like the honeymoon to continue, they have had 13 years of it, but BigPond and Telstra Management don't see it that way, it's called competition and retaining your customer base.

Also have you ever asked yourself why no competitors were interested in you for the last 10 years so you can get off your so called 'ripped off' Telstra port?

advocateadvocate September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+3) (-5)

Some people just don't get it.

Telstra Wholesale are selling ports at the exchange to Bigpond at a far cheaper rate than is available to other wholesale customers (ISPs).

The issue here is that those wholesale customers can no longer effectively compete on those ports, because Telstra & Bigpond have engaged in a monopolistic and you could argue, predatory market move. Telstra were handed what was basically a monoply position when it was privatised, hence the need to protect the competitors in the market.

Internobody - it is because of ISPs like Internode that we even have a slightly competitive marketplace. It was Internode and IInet who took the first steps in rolling out DSLAMs for ADSL2+. Why do you think Telstra has so many customers? Because they were the monopoloy provided for many many years, most people don't know any different. Another silly point.

Oh, and why would Telstra care about "such a small ISP", well maybe it's because Inernode and IInet are the 3rd and 4th biggest ISPs in Australia. Hence, this predatory move is aimed directly impacting the customer base of these ISPs (among others).

To those who say "buy IInet wholesale ports", well their ADSL2+ footprint is nowhere near the scope of the Telstra's footprint. It's a silly argument.

jdf81jdf81 September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+16) (-1)

"Telstra Wholesale are selling ports at the exchange to Bigpond at a far cheaper rate than is available to other wholesale customers (ISPs)."

You know this how?

"because Telstra & Bigpond have engaged in a monopolistic and you could argue, predatory market move."

Wholesale ADSL2+ is not a monopoly, Telstra Wholesale have the most ports but when your nearest competitor SingTel/Optus STOPS its rollout at the end of 2009 it is always going to be like that, but that's not Telstra fault that Optus has made a commercial decision it doesn't want to compete anymore.

"Hence, this predatory move is aimed directly impacting the customer base of these ISPs (among others)"

No it's a move to try and stop BigPond losing customers to other ISP's better value plans, some ISP's don't like it, they love poaching BigPond customers because there are so many of them.
Now that BigPond are playing them at their own game and are closer to matching their plan value they don't like it.
You also conveniently ignored the other conditions BigPond place on their best value plans before you can buy them, but I understand why you want that one to go through to the keeper, so does Internode.

I noticed you use the emotive term 'predatory' a lot, when ISP's poach customers from BigPond it's called competition, when BigPond tries to stop the exodus it's called 'predatory', that is one of best examples of hypocrisy I have seen.

Internode could buy iiNet ports but iiNet is their direct competitor it won't happen, more of face saving exercise than anything else.

advocateadvocate September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+2) (-7)

"Some people just don't get it."

No you sure don't!!

"Telstra Wholesale are selling ports at the exchange to Bigpond at a far cheaper rate than is available to other wholesale customers (ISPs)."

Telstra wholesale don't have anything to do with BigPond. But even if they did, why wouldn't their "port buy price" be way below Internode? Internode, including its own ADSL2+ base, is only around 5% of BigPond market share. As in any wholesale/retail agreement, the bigger the spend....the cheaper the price.

"The issue here is that those wholesale customers can no longer effectively compete on those ports, because Telstra & Bigpond have engaged in a monopolistic and you could argue, predatory market move."

Not at all and here is the rub, Internode is such a small ISP that it has no justification for getting cheap ports. There are plenty of other wholesalers out there and Internode already use one of them, so it can't be a monopoly by definition.

"Telstra were handed what was basically a monoply position when it was privatised, hence the need to protect the competitors in the market."

No the Telstra shareholders paid tens of billions for a vertically integrated business.

" It was Internode and IInet who took the first steps in rolling out DSLAMs for ADSL2+. "

Yes they sure did and cherry picked the areas they would install them in, while Telstra was installing DSLAMS throughout Australia attempting to provide connectivity to a much larger market.

"Why do you think Telstra has so many customers? Because they were the monopoloy provided for many many years, most people don't know any different. Another silly point."

It is a really silly point, I'm glad we agree. You do realise that the market has been deregulated for many years? Nothing to prevent the world's largest telcos from entering the market, but they know that the return on investment is crap.

"Oh, and why would Telstra care about "such a small ISP", well maybe it's because Inernode and IInet are the 3rd and 4th biggest ISPs in Australia. Hence, this predatory move is aimed directly impacting the customer base of these ISPs (among others)."

Yet even if you combine their broadband customers, they still only represent just over 21% of Telsra's broadband market share. Even more significantly combined they have about 10% of the total market. They are niche players and Telstra wouldn't look twice at them.

InternobodyInternobody September 9th, 2010
Report offensive content Reply (+4) (-27)
Add your opinion

In order to post a comment, you need to be registered. (Sign In or register below)

Post your comment

Terms of Service - As a ZDNet registrant, and by using this service, you indicate that you agree to our Terms and Conditions and have read and understand our Privacy Policy.

ZDNet Australia Live

ZDNet Patch Monday ep137 - Removing the anonymity from Anonymous: http://t.co/E6Tn8vJr

ZDNet Patch Monday ep138 - Anonymous 'crippled': where to for hacktivism?: http://t.co/lbKew6Bo

ZDNet Patch Monday ep139 - War talk dominates AusCERT 2012: http://t.co/rUm22Zjm

ZDNet Patch Monday ep135 - iiNet wards off AFACT, but what next?: http://t.co/0xVdYm6i

ZDNet Patch Monday ep136 - Blackhole crimeware as a service here to stay: http://t.co/evnCUlsX

GoogleTV will revolutionize television once viewers understand it http://t.co/c4lEyb3a

Reading this article is like stepping back in time. If I was Paul Berryman I would hang my head in shame. How embarrassing!!! I can’t b...

15 minutes ago by MikeSkoey on 30 servers to 7: BUPA redoes virtualisation

Phone cloning, maybe, but bill duplication? Tech-heads give verdict
http://t.co/aw5SNigN
#ozpolitics

The registration sticker provided a visual reminder to the driver to renew regardless of what happened to the renewal letter. The experie...

22 minutes ago by dccharron on NSW ditches rego stickers for tech

"xfire: Why is telecommunications being treated different to roads, water and electricity?" Good question, my guess is AUS is far behind...

25 minutes ago by ngoctranminh on Five pros and cons of the NBN

“@zdnetaustralia: Is Windows Phone really the third challenger to Android and iOS? http://t.co/Tr7ASra0 ”. It's different but fast and good

Can HP bounce back? http://t.co/TSlWjmrA

Thanks for the response Luke, Given that the quotes are accurate, then the person in charge of the Vic Health App needs to find another j...

36 minutes ago by butterflyeffecs on Android fragmentation steers Vic Health

Social business in Australia http://t.co/aBuXFy40 . Australian businesses still laging behind with social business. Time to catch up!

Can Windows Phone bring a new challenge? #WindowsPhone http://t.co/m82nU7hK

Nice analogy. Another factor is whether you can find 50 people with powerful enough weapons. Minassian's argument is essentially that the...

46 minutes ago by Mukimu on National Botnet Network coming: Earthwave

RT @digitaltasmania: @ZDNetAustralia #NBN's Tassie upgrade to cost $1.3m http://t.co/1nTbLUJv -Countdown begins for 1st Oppn. MP to misconstrue per unit cost

@ZDNetAustralia #NBN's Tassie upgrade to cost $1.3m http://t.co/1nTbLUJv -Countdown begins for 1st Oppn. MP to misconstrue per unit cost

RT @mosfreshmedia: Start-up accelerator targets cleantech 'Atlassians, BigCommerce' via @zdnetaustralia http://t.co/oho3oQSK @atpinnovations @hamishhawthorn

Can #HP bounce back?: HP's move to cut 27,000 jobs, reinvest in research and development (R&D) and generally get... http://t.co/dlgAhwxb

Can HP bounce back? http://t.co/qLlHB5FV

It's nice to see Tas finally get some decent internet connectivity, for too long Tas has been stooged on decent internet connectivity but...

1 hour ago by Jingles on NBN's Tassie upgrade to cost $1.3 million

Cloud inefficiency - Bad habits are hard to break: Cloud can save you a lot of money - if you use it effectively... http://t.co/oVoNx2na

by http://t.co/vmlLt4bh: Can HP bounce back?: HP's move to cut 27,000 jobs, reinvest in research and development ... http://t.co/EjWWU9O1

Can HP bounce back?: HP's move to cut 27,000 jobs, reinvest in research and development (R&D) and generally get ... http://t.co/KDGewBVH

Can HP bounce back?: HP's move to cut 27,000 jobs, reinvest in research and development (R&D) and generally get ... http://t.co/y2ajlh9V

Three tips for businesses to support connected customers: While the connected home offers benefits to the consum... http://t.co/psgHJelD

#Agedcare 30 servers to 7: BUPA redoes virtualisation: Most IT teams spend 90 per cent of today making sure that... http://t.co/HmVXHRQ7

[plug] #NBN cost-benefit analyses are so 2011 http://t.co/2mRUKI8G @TurnbullMalcolm has forgotten his CBA; sh/would he still do one? #zdnet

Can HP bounce back? http://t.co/LlAUcyYP

Who is Luke Hartsuyker? He must be the Apprentice FUDster. As PaulPC has already said regional consumers want, deserve and are entitled...

1 hour ago by dickster on Regional review highlights NBN, mobile

Three tips for businesses to support connected customers http://t.co/W7Sr3RpD

by http://t.co/vmlLt4bh: Did RIM shelve plans to license BBM?: Research In Motion (RIM) had considered licensing ... http://t.co/z6VlO472

Did RIM shelve plans to license BBM? - ZDNet Australia http://t.co/j042NNOM

Did RIM shelve plans to license BBM? - ZDNet Australia http://t.co/qMNEifi1

Its good to see the NBN keeping up with the latest equipement & letting the people benefit from it. After all thats why it was a trial, ...

1 hour ago by fibretech on NBN's Tassie upgrade to cost $1.3 million

#Google TV will revolutionize television once viewers understand it http://t.co/Pmie5zEC http://t.co/2GN4qz9j http://t.co/j3wf6jEF

RT @zdnetaustralia: NBN Co will spend $1.3 million upgrading some 700 network terminating units in Tasmania. http://t.co/6GWYMcZQ

Did RIM shelve plans to license BBM?: Research In Motion (RIM) had considered licensing BlackBerry Messenger (BB... http://t.co/G13GBXl4

Did RIM shelve plans to license BBM? http://t.co/KKPZVPOr

Did RIM shelve plans to license BBM? http://t.co/1AutUH8l

Are college students dependent on technology? http://t.co/4p3v9PZ9 via @ZDNet

NBN's Tassie upgrade to cost $1.3 million http://t.co/iDlBr20I

Shadow Minister for Regional Communications Luke Hartsuyker has got it wrong. Regional consumers want improved mobile services AND the NB...

2 hours ago by PaulPC on Regional review highlights NBN, mobile

Just remember that Google haven't broken any laws here, they're just doing what all their other multinational competitiors do; minimise t...

3 hours ago by Pachanga on Much ado about Google's tax

ルイヴィトン バッグ : http://www.lovebagjp.com/ Louis Vuitton bags, Louis Vuitton pretension nose about,Louis Vuitton daydre...

3 hours ago by bundLourb on Reservoir blogs: Fan fakes Tarantino diary

シャネル バッグ : http://www.bagssalejp.org/ Chanel trap,chanel shekels,gucci bags,direct purse,poor recent Louis Vuitton keep...

5 hours ago by bybrinkLync on Reservoir blogs: Fan fakes Tarantino diary

I guess but in both cases, dead body!

15 hours ago by Doubt on National Botnet Network coming: Earthwave

I think it's for the very reasons you mention in your first paragraph that there is no CBA. With the ideological differences and vested ...

15 hours ago by RealismBias on NBN cost-benefit analyses are so 2011

Good points; but how do you establish consensus about the terms of reference of a cost-benefit analysis? What is to be included? How far ...

16 hours ago by Gwyntaglaw on NBN cost-benefit analyses are so 2011

I live in a small country town & have done since 2002. When I got to this town it had no mobile phone & no broadband. The only reason w...

16 hours ago by fibretech on Regional review highlights NBN, mobile

Hi there, just became alert to your blog through Google, and found that it is really informative. I am going to watch out for brussels. I...

16 hours ago by Uttedsips on Fujitsu Stylistic ST5011

Like most things in life, the devil is in the details. If a cost benefit analysis included a societal element, I'm certain nobody on eit...

16 hours ago by RealismBias on NBN cost-benefit analyses are so 2011

The coalition has done nothing else but keep changing their view over the last 2 years. -first it was "there is nothing wrong with the ...

17 hours ago by djz on NBN cost-benefit analyses are so 2011

Use the force Luke... FFS

17 hours ago by Beta on Regional review highlights NBN, mobile

This story has been voted 12000 times in the last 24 hours!

21 hours ago, Is Bill Gates a great leader?

This story has been voted 10 times in the last 24 hours!

2 days ago, CeBIT 2012 opens: photos

This story has been voted 15 times in the last 24 hours!

2 days ago, Lenovo ThinkPad 3G tablet (32GB)

Facebook Activity

Keep up with ZDNet Australia

ZDNet Events Calendar

ZDNet Events Calendar