No thanks Google, we've got Ubuntu

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ZDNet.com.au
news editor
Renai LeMay

commentary Google's revelation today that it will create its own operating system will bring just one reaction from operating system enthusiasts worldwide.

"Not another Linux distribution," they'll cry.

They'll say this because if there is one problem that the Linux and open source community has suffered repeatedly over the past two decades, it's been fragmentation.

It was bad enough that the Unix operating system fragmented into several different fragments through the 1980s and 1990s. Systems administrators (like myself, earlier this decade) were forced to learn several different platforms; Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, FreeBSD ... the list was always growing longer.

But the hojillion different directions Linux has taken over the past several decades has even dwarfed that problem. Depending on what part of the world you live in, odds are that you (and sometimes the company you work for) have personally switched between different Linux distributions several times over the past decade, as one or the other gained prominence.

Personally, I started off using Red Hat, which split off into the official Red Hat version and a community edition dubbed Fedora. I toyed with Mandriva and SuSE for a while, before settling on Slackware for some years, and then moving to Debian. Throughout that time I've had to learn quite a few different package management, configuration, boot and window management systems.

Of course, I have also used a variety of Microsoft operating systems, currently Windows 7, and Apple's more focused Mac OS X and its predecessors.

Now, over the past few years some of us had begun to believe that we could see a bright light forming at the end of that confused and heterogeneous tunnel. Out of the ferocious Linux distribution wars, one contender has emerged with the seeming strength to take on the rest; at least when it comes to the Linux desktop platform.

I speak, of course, of Ubuntu.

Mark Shuttleworth's juggernaut has, over the past few years, blasted through the Linux community like his shuttle blasted into space, drawing all into its orbit like some kind of monstrous black hole.

If you attend conferences like Linux.conf.au these days, where you used to see Debian and Slackware die-hards, you'll see a massive wave of Linux laptops proudly sporting Ubuntu paraphernalia. I switched the Linux half of my home desktop PC to Ubuntu four years ago, and my media centre followed this year (saying goodbye finally to the venerable Windows XP).

The growing dominance of Ubuntu (at least on the desktop, the server room seems to have been won by Red Hat) has delivered the Linux community a serious advantage in its ongoing war against the incumbent Windows and Apple platforms because of its ability to give software developers a single platform to concentrate on, and polish to a degree not seen previously.

You can email Linus Torvalds or Mark Shuttleworth directly and get answers to your Linux questions, sometimes within minutes or hours. Try that with whoever is in charge of Android or Chrome development.

In this context, Google's decision to create its own Linux distribution and splinter the Linux community decisively once again can only be seen as foolhardy and self-obsessive.

Instead of treading its own path, Google should have sought to leverage the stellar work already carried out by Mark Shuttleworth and his band of merry coders and tied its horse to the Ubuntu cart.

If Google truly wants to design a new "windowing system on top of a Linux kernel", there should be nothing to stop the search giant from collaborating openly with the best in the business. I'm sure Linus Torvalds would have something strongly worded to say about Google's plans to "completely redesign" the underlying security architecture of Linux.

There's no doubt Google has made moves in this direction with its pledge to open-source Chrome OS, the same way it did with several previous projects; the Chrome browser itself and its Android mobile OS.

But doubts still remain about those projects also. For example, where do they fit in between true open-source projects, maintained and supported by the community, and to what extent are they extensions of Google's online advertising empire?

Android is a great mobile operating system, second only to Apple's iPhone platform. But Google still controls most aspects of Android's development. Also, anyone using Android would have no doubt that the operating system ties in very nicely with Google's cloud offerings (for example, Gmail); but things are a lot trickier if you prefer Windows Live or other rival systems.

Chrome too, is a great web browser that I use for much of my daily needs; but it's mainly still in Google's hands, and so those of us who prefer true competition to exist in the browser world take great comfort from the fact that Mozilla Firefox is completely independent and not pushing anyone's agenda.

Who are you going to trust and believe in? The non-commercial Ubuntu Foundation (and wider project), which has developed an open-source operating system second to none and virtually ended the Linux distribution wars? Or Google, which also makes free products (well, mostly) and packages advertising in (sometimes)?

You can email Linus Torvalds or Mark Shuttleworth directly and get answers to your Linux questions, sometimes within minutes or hours. Try that with whoever is in charge of Android or Chrome development.

Google makes great products. But it's currently trying to tread a nice middle ground between completely embracing the open source community and keeping control over software it has developed. That's an impossible patch to walk and one that leaves it open to being criticised for the same sort of arrogance operating system vendors have been accused of for decades.

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Talkback 97 comments

    perspective James -- 08/07/09

    First some perspective: Linux has 1% of desktop operating systems online. Is Google taking on the Linux market? Wow that would be weird. Kind of like Federer seriously going after an unseeded player.

    Google doesn't care about the desktop - they care about the data. Google's business is automated customer intimacy. Getting granular information on a user's activities on the Internet is the best way to do this. The best way to do this is to provide the user with the most direct path onto the Internet. Hence, Android and Chrome.

    Reminds me of the zen story about the dog tied to the cart. The dog can fight it, or he can trot along happily beside it. No matter what the dog chooses to do, the cart will roll in one direction.

    Good point. Anonymous -- 08/07/09 (in reply to #320148086)

    Also, Google can't afford the delay that interacting with the Open Source community entails. It likes to get the ball rolling in its own terms and then invite the community in.

    Linux market share Renai LeMay -- 08/07/09 (in reply to #320148086)

    Linux might have 1 per cent of the desktop market, but that 1 per cent is an incredibly influential 1 per cent.

    I don't know any real computer geek that's not running Linux in some shape or form and normally it's on most of their infrastructure.

    I'm talking about people here who know their way around a motherboard, can install stuff etc :)

    Linux has never been stronger, it's not going away, and it's here to stay. Just like Windows and Mac OS X.

    And as for Google not caring about the desktop ... they should care about users! Not just about advertising revenue :)

    Cheers,

    Renai LeMay
    News Editor
    ZDNet.com.au

    fair points, but... James -- 08/07/09 (in reply to #320148098)

    > "Linux might have 1 per cent of the desktop market, but that 1 per cent is an incredibly influential 1 per cent."

    What you mean is "incredibly noisy" :)

    And no argument from me about the idea that the users of Linux have a heightened technical awareness. I also agree that Linux has staying power (ahem, I'm using Ubuntu now).

    But I'm talking about the normal people out there, the ones that don't give a damn about tinkering in the guts of an OS. They just want it to work so they can tweet and FB and shop, etc.

    And this is why Google is going to wipe the dial of anyone that gets in their way between them and their objective - end user data. That's the beauty of their business model: they make a cool toy for end users to play with, which is invariably free (yay!), and then just harvest user and usage data in exchange. It's the ultimate Complementor. Because Google make their money elsewhere, they can give very nice products away free; and the more people use the products the more data Google gets and the more value the data attains.

    It's a totally different model to either Microsoft or the Linux fanboys.

    Anyway, we should pick this conversation up over a beer!

    I have to agree with you... Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148108)

    Ubuntu gets a lot of attention but it's (old and tired) polish is only skin deep.
    It still is a distribution by geeks for geeks.
    The reality is that to create a really unified desktop you need a strong leading force that will actually listen to regular users. That force could be Google...

    Real Computer Geeks Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148098)

    I think I satisfy your requirement for a 'real computer geek' - I can an do find my way around the motherboard - I've even had to input the bootstrap by hand (admitedly that was in the 70's). However I think you need to talk to more computer geeks.

    Never used used Linux on a PC (or any other computer) that I own, and don't intend to. I'm more interested in getting the results I need than stuffing around getting it set up.

    I have to admit I would certainly be interested in a solution where the computer can move closer to being an appliance - even if all Google manage to do is scare Microsoft into being more customer focussed that would be a big achievement.

    Real computer Geek?! Nalle Berg -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148230)

    "I think I satisfy your requirement for a 'real computer geek'"

    I think you don't, because...

    "Never used used Linux on a PC (or any other computer) that I own, and don't intend to. I'm more interested in getting the results I need than stuffing around getting it set up."

    ... you are a tad to narrow minded, not even wanting to try/use the third biggest OS for the desktop.

    And for the setting up part? You'd be amazed how simple it is nowadays.

    3rd largest? benjwah -- 28/07/09 (in reply to #320149233)

    Calling Linux the 3rd largest is like calling your local deli the 3rd largest burger joint after MacDonalds and Hungry Jacks.

    And Ubuntu is still no fun to set up. Sure, installing the OS: Easy as pie.

    But explain to me why I always end up having to install Flash using sudo in the terminal. In 2009.

    Explain to me why I have to add a Wine repository so I can download and install Wine. I've got to go to the website to find the repository's address, wouldn't it be easier if I was able to just download a file and double-click on it like in Mac OS or Windows?

    Of course, once you've added that repository, something always goes wrong and I end up back in the terminal using sudo.

    So, installing Ubuntu: 10-20 minutes...
    Installing Flash: 1 hour (with dicking around)
    Installing Wine: 1 hour (also, with dicking around).

    Upgrading from Firefox 3 to 3.5? I've got no idea. I've googled it, I've downloaded the file I need, I've got NO idea how to install it (of course, double-clicking the **** would be too easy, wouldn't it?), I've tried searching for it in Add/Remove programs.

    Ironically, I could compile and build one of the late beta versions of 3.5, the (long) instructions for that were easy enough to find.

    He's not narrow-minded: He's got things to do.

    Linux has more than 1 per cent of the desktops Anonymous -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148098)

    Many in the free software community accept these figures too lightly. The U.S. centric 1 % market share claim has been dissected and refuted many times, but the story just refuses to die.

    Fair enough Benjwah -- 28/07/09 (in reply to #320148371)

    If we let you cling to a figure like 2%, would that make you happy?

    Linux Market Share Anonymous -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148098)

    I administer a website for a company that makes industrial products and sells them worldwide (specifically geophysical instrumentation and industrial control).

    Lately, all Microsoft operating system traffic amounts to 39 percent - and most of that is traceable to Microsoft corporation directly! The remainder is other operating systems, most of which is one flavor of Linux or another. BSD also makes a pretty good showing. Sometimes we even see a bit of OS/2!

    I think Google has a very good idea what the actual traffic numbers are, and what operating systems are being used by people/companies/organizations who have money to spend. Everybody I have met from Google has been pretty smart, I would take them very seriously.

    Wow, what relevant numbers! Benjwah -- 28/07/09 (in reply to #320149068)

    39% of users on your website use Windows and most of that is from Microsoft.

    Well, I guess that means that Microsoft owns 20% of the worlds computers, their customer base owns 19% of the worlds computers, and everyone else is using Linux!

    It sounds like it's not just people from Google would would seem smart to you. It seems like anyone who passed 5th grade maths would look like Einstein in your eyes.

    You missed the point. Anonymous -- 29/07/09 (in reply to #320165409)

    The point is among industrial computer users only a minority use Microsoft anything and that Microsoft uses its own computers to try to inflate market share numbers.

    I did not say that everyone else is using Linux, although there are in fact alot of Linux installations out there in many favors, particularly in Asia. Other significant corporate operating systems include Solaris, BSD, and other Unix-like ones (Eastern Europe has its very own varieties of Unix). OS/2 is small but far from dead - now living as eCommStation. There are a host of mobile devices used to browse websites, and a fair percentage of games consoles do as well.

    This is the traffic Google would be seeing. Likewise, other companies that engage in server support would see this and place their bets accordingly. Indications are this is exactly what is happening.

    Get off it Anonymous -- 15/07/09 (in reply to #320148098)

    Yes, and all real computer geeks are smelly pizza inhaling, socially maladjusted oddballs.

    Pathetic generalisation Renai...

    Semantics AndyCee -- 08/07/09 (in reply to #320148086)

    Google is no more "taking on" the linux market than it is the Windows & OSX market. The only reason "linux" has been highlighted is because it will enter the consumer computer market via the same means & space that Ubuntu has been fighting to get a hold of. Namely, netbooks.

    In that sense, it will be competing with Microsoft's Windows 7, which will be pre-installed on most netbooks.

    ubuntu Anonymous -- 08/07/09

    Why should Ubuntu be the only option?

    (It's a horrid OS but we will leave that aside for the moment). The whole poin of Open Source is choice, variety and customisation.

    If Ubuntu never did what Google want why should they modify their vision for it. That's, well, silly. Look are Chrome - they could have built on Mozilla's platform, but they didnt. They went their own way and created a great alternative!

    Mozilla busted, linux works - that's the diference Anonymous -- 25/08/09 (in reply to #320148099)

    Mozilla was/is fundamentally broken for modern ajax web apps, so google had no choice but to write their own browser.
    Existing browser architectures were basically the same as they had been for years, perhaps as they had been more or less since the first gui browsers.

    Google do have a choice with OS, and I bet they're going for linux for very pragmatic reasons.

    The kernel is fairly solid (yes the security model and some other areas could do with a re-work but it is fundamentally sound) and it is free as in beer as well as speech.

    I.e. they are leveraging linux because for the most part all OS's do the same thing at the OS level , they abstract hardware, manage resources and provide libraries.

    And if linux does not do it better than it's competitors google can make it do as well if they choose to. Though there are very few areas where linux is not arguably as god as the competitors.
    Permisison granulairty is one.
    Threading, maybe.
    Funky filesystems. Perhaps.

    Since OS's are all bascially the same, then you use the cheapest easiest to get a hold of and modify to taste.

    This is a far different story to browsers which as stated above had no suitable code base to leverage for what google wanted to do.

    The More, The Merrier....for all consumers. Anonymous -- 08/07/09

    It should be quite obvious Google has bigger plans than competing with Canonical/Ubuntu. I'm quite confident their plans involve a certain companies grossly bloated marketshare in Redmond Washington USA. Even though I currently use Kubuntu I would be more than happy to see Google further reduce Microsoft's perverted stranglehold on the computer/software industry. As long as its anything but Windows/Microsoft underneath its fine by me.

    There will be more... Anonymous -- 08/07/09

    There's many reasons to pick on Google but being current isn't one of them. Get used to the idea of more Linux and BSD derivatives not less. The "operating system enthusiasts" are the ones experimenting with tools like T2, OpenEmbedded, poky, nix and the like to build purpose-built solutions. Ubuntu Desktop is great but it's still part of a dying paradigm.

    No thanks Ubuntu, we've got Debian Anonymous -- 08/07/09

    Funny, a lot of this article applies to the phrase, "No thanks Ubuntu, we've got Debian."

    I think you're missing the point Anonymous -- 08/07/09

    We're not talking about just another "run-of-the-mill" distro here. Google's intent with this OS is to move users away from local processing and data storage toward a web-based platform. This OS is little more than the browser, and this was done very much on purpose. Many who love Ubuntu will stay with Ubuntu, because what it does (it provides a rich and easy to use desktop experience) is completely different from what Google's OS will do (get users surfing the web as quickly as possible and provide easy interfaces for all the services hosted by Google)

    who cares david -- 08/07/09 (in reply to #320148137)

    who cares google can do what they like.
    it is just getting linux even more publicity /lime light. Us who already are on linux whatever distro already know what it is about. I hope google can get some free marketing for other distros too (spread the momentum!)

    This is not the point... Anonymous -- 17/07/09 (in reply to #320148140)

    The point is that, Google intention is to process user information (like using Google Chrome) to provide other products. But this is not good, since they can (and we don't even know if this is what is really happening) get a LOOOOT of customer's information with all the stuff that they already have in Internet. But to make things easier is to make customers use their own platform TOTALLY integrated with WEB. So, my point is, I really prefer to have an OS where I have all my information secured. I know that Ubuntu is a secure platform, and for those who knows Unix, know pretty much how to confirm this.

    guys you're just funny Anonymous -- 08/07/09

    Guys, you're just funny! Why didn't you cried "No thanks Google, we've got Firefox/Opera/Konqueror/Safari/IE/<your favourite browser goes here>" when they released Chrome? No, you thought that chrome is great idea! Why just you can't give Google do what they want?

    Chrome Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148139)

    Didn't try Chrome when it was released and don't intend to try G-OS when its released.

    Not a MS/IE purist as I use FF most of the time, but we really don't need another OS.

    My prediction is that it is just a play to get eyeballs for ad dollars and that they will not be open about the OS with developers.

    Joe

    Even more funny! Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148180)

    Sounds like a words of funboy. You will better be blind to leaks of popular software and will not try any new developments (at least try) just not to be disappointed in yuor favourite app? It's interesting for me why you're using Ubuntu but not M$ software, it has even better commercials.

    Funny, eh? Anonymous -- 14/07/09 (in reply to #320148139)

    Because I can't say a thing about Google Chrome, other than "It still does not have a port for my Fedora Core installation".
    Which, sort-of, also suggests my position on the Google launching Gosh (errr... G-os): I don't care too much.

    Better this way Jach -- 09/07/09

    Google has the hearts and minds of the common person, much more than Microsoft now does. This is good for the Linux community as a whole. As for people's claims that users have to muck around in the guts of the OS: nonsense. This is 2009, not the 80s and 90s.

    By the way, no thanks Ubuntu/Debian/Fedora, I've got Gentoo, where I -can- muck around. xP

    Nope benjwah -- 28/07/09 (in reply to #320148143)

    The claim that people still DON'T have to muck around to make Linux work is nonsense.

    I defy anyone to set up their system properly without having to use the Terminal at least once.

    This is, as you mentioned, 2009.

    Sorry, but Ubuntu doesnt "Just work" Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    Come on folks, lets get real, Ubuntu only works for computer engineers. I am a computer engineer and use Ubuntu but would never try to get my wife or children on the system. Believe me I tried and it failed miserably. An OS that just works, boots quickly and is light on the interface and secure does not exist today (maybe Mac OS). I welcome Google Chrome OS, something needs to shake up the OS industry. The only group that is doing that for the masses today is Apple.

    Ubuntu does work Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148144)

    Sorry, but that's just not true. My (very) non-technical partner loves Ubuntu. Sure, she didn't install it, but I'd challenge a non-technical person to install windows.

    Bleh Mel Sommersberg -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148176)

    Apart from asking for your name and a name for your computer, Windows installs itself. If you can't do that then you don't deserve to own a computer.

    Double bleh! Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148178)

    My God, have you *ever* installed Windows? Really? Don't be a pesky liar!!!

    I once installed it for a non-techy friend.
    She was absolutely puzzled by the questions asked: Number of partitions? Size and type of them? What's a partition? What's the difference between NTFS and FAT32, and why should I care? Full format vs. quick one?

    Domain? Workgroup?
    What's the difference between "Spanish International", "Spanish (Mexico)" and "Spanish (Spain)"?

    Left to their own devices, most inexperienced users select "Spanish (Spain)" and a "Spanish" keyboard at this point (instead of a "LatinAmerican" one) and then go crying asking "why I'm getting the euro sign in Excel? and why is the date format so weird? And why it's using a comma, not a dot, for decimals? And why if I press an acute accent on my keyboard, I get a grave accent on display?

    The options for selecting language, date, and keyboard settings should be simpler and more obvious, and provide some feedback about all things they change.

    If your computer had Windows preloaded onto it at the factory, then yes, it only asks you for your name and PC's. But then pre-loaded Linux on the EEE is even simpler. If I were you I'd say "installing" Linux on those netbooks is absolutely trivial.

    Ha! Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148195)

    your friend must suffer from severe mental problems if they can't figure out how to click next, or simply press the enter key.(which is exactly what the window's install process has been reduced to since win98). only one option in a full install CD of windows XP and newer for filesystem format: NTFS. the only difference between quick format and just format is 10 seconds vs an hour or more. that's it. she couldn't figure out what country she lives in? my god... put her in a home because she really, really shouldn't be left in charge of her own life. everything defaults to US english, unless you gave her a bootleg CD from another country(in which case SHAME ON YOU!). really no need to select anything at all after the format process completes, i just get up and do something around the house while it installs. at most i merely need to click the next button.. that's really all there is to it, even on the average linux install these days it's just that simple.
    what you need to realize is the average person simply doesn't know, or care to know how easy or simple something is because they are lazy. they just want absolutely everything done for them; why? don't ask me, but they won't even sit and watch over my shoulder to see how it's done so they can save $$$ by not needing to call me to do it all for them again in about 6 months.

    Bleh - again Mel Sommersberg -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148195)

    "My God, have you *ever* installed Windows? Really? Don't be a pesky liar!!!"

    I've installed more operating systems on more computers than you've had hot or cold dinners. And installed means installed - not pre-installed.

    "I once installed it for a non-techy friend.
    She was absolutely puzzled by the questions asked: Number of partitions? Size and type of them? What's a partition? What's the difference between NTFS and FAT32, and why should I care? Full format vs. quick one?"

    Most people would use one partition and if they are going to attempt installtion of any OS they'd already have an idea of what formatting a disc does. My grandmother can do it, why can't you? A standard install of Linux has five partitions and there is a science to the correct size of most of them.

    "Domain? Workgroup?
    What's the difference between "Spanish International", "Spanish (Mexico)" and "Spanish (Spain)"?"

    If you are in possession of one computer you ignore the workgroup name altogether and just leave it as WORKGROUP. I would have thought you'd know that but looks like that is one thing I did get wrong - sorry. We also speak English. I think most people here would know how to navigate a drop-down menu to change from the butchered US English to the Queen's Own.

    "and then go crying asking "why I'm getting the euro sign in Excel?"

    Excel doesn't come on the Windows CD, does it...

    "The options for selecting language, date, and keyboard settings should be simpler and more obvious, and provide some feedback about all things they change."

    Don't you know how to change from the stupid US date setting to the correct format of DDMMYY? Go back to school. You sound like you've barely qualified for kindie.

    It's easy when you know how Andy Goss -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148293)

    But most people don't. Most people can't program a VCR, let alone install an OS.

    I doubt if Google are aiming at the "install your own" market anyway.

    Seriously dude... Anonymous -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148195)

    Have you ever even installed Vista or 7?
    Pop the CD in the drive
    Click next a couple of times
    Enter your name
    Click next one more time
    Thats it!

    Thats REALLY all there is to installing a current windows OS.
    Now show me ANY linux based OS (even mac OS) that's as blindingly easy and simple to get going (none of those dumb Live CDs either) and I'll eat my hat!

    Windows has ALWAYS been far easier to install (and use) than any linux out there at the same time, and its also worth noting how damn difficult it is to actually get ubuntu etc to actually do anything bar simple web browsing, especially for computer newbies.

    Perhaps, but... Dave -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148478)

    Speaking only of XP (since 7 hasn't been officially released yet, and Vista doesn't have the market share) the OS install is rather trivial, I agree. However, I'd suggest it's about the same difficulty as an Ubuntu install, with perhaps a little more clunky interface given that it's getting on now. However, it's what happens *after* the install that made me switch my desktop systems to Ubuntu:

    To get a windows XP system to a usable state takes hours (I did it last night, actually) due to the time it takes to find and download and install drivers for each piece of hardware, not to mention installing Office, firefox, antivirus etc etc. Yes, yes, I know fanboy, drivers are harder to install in linux than windows if you have to compile, *but* far more hardware is automatically detected and installed during the OS install for Ubuntu than XP slipstreamed with SP3.

    Of course, I can only speak for the hundred or so computers I've installed dual-boot systems on (so that we're comparing apples to apples) but on average I allow 30-40 minutes for an Ubuntu install, and 2-3 hours for XP.

    On another topic, is there a windows command equivalent to 'lspci'? Identifying hardware under windows is such a pain...

    Ubuntu is now FAR EASIER install than M$ Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu) -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320149011)

    I've done lots of OS installs from paper-tape thru PCDOS v1.0 - ie including all M$ variants.

    I think Ubuntu is a FAR easier overall install now than M$ Windows. Ubuntu asks far fewer questions, auto-finds drivers for more devices and installs a full office suite in the one step. Plus you are never left searching for original install disks, or licence numbers to put in at appropriate points, as everything is free.

    Plus, now that the latest version of Ubuntu does recognise more wireless devices, it is easy enough to simply hand over to your great-aunt to simply do browsing, photos and word processing.

    And I agree with the trust of Renai's story, that Google would have more un-seating of M$ monopoly if Google got behind Ubuntu, than with Google competing with Ubuntu. Perhaps less funnelling of users to Google ad-sites, but more impact in unseating M$,

    Ubuntu different not harder. Anonymous -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148144)

    Once installed and configured (and I'll admit this is not always a non trivial opton, unless you happened to buy the exact right combiniation of hardware), there is no reason that Ubuntu is inherenetly harder TO USE than any other OS including mac or win.

    What is hard, and I suspect is the case for your wife and kids, just like it is for my mum and the most of the rest of PC users, is that they have spent 3, 4 ,5 10 whatever number of years using windows or mac and they are used to that.

    They have ingrained though patterns, paradigns wet which they are not even concious of and with may not work well with linux generally and/or ubuntu in particular.

    The biggest complaint I hear with people dabbling their toes in the linux pol (AFTER there machine is installed and configured) is "whay doesn't this do X like windows?".

    I.e. most people don't want somethign diferent, they just want a windows clone.
    And most people really dont even realise that this is in effect what their various complaints and questions are saying.

    ANd that's fine, if they really want windows, then they should have it. but if they want linux then they need to put some time in to learn linux, which is where most people fall down. They forget they have some nmnber o years of experience invested din windows/macos and they dont get that a lot of it doesn;t port so well.

    The same thing happens with windows people trying mac, and probably mac people trying windows.

    What I am trying to say is that AFTER install and config there is nothing inherently inferior or hard about ubuntu, fedorea, osx or whatever - it is just different to windows, or whtever else the users primary OS to date has been. ANd the user needs to realise this, and allow for it.
    If they don;t want to take the time to learn, then fair enough. If what they want is a wndows clone, they can go one better, and just have windows.

    Sure it's harder than windows to a windows user of n years experience, but if you take two novices with ni computer experience (if such a thing exists these days) then I don't think they'd find ubuntu any harder than windows.

    Another OS? Koratsuki -- 09/07/09

    Another OS? What´s the story? There are a lot of GNU/Linux OS in the civiliced world, so, add another GNU/linux distribution, I see this pointless. And Ubuntu, I don´t have nothing against Ubuntu, but you might have a lot of RAM to run it in your machine(I remember now a joke about when you will need a 128GB of RAM, someone said a 3D rendering software, I quickly thought in Ubuntu 10.X). Sorry Google,I've got Slackware and Debian. I prefer a brand new installed Debian or Slackware than Ubuntu. Remember "Use the Wheel". ;^).

    Dont compare with ubuntu, compare with Apple. GOS will be linux with a brand. Anonymous -- 25/08/09 (in reply to #320148145)

    The difference between GOS and another linux distro is mind share.

    No-one outside the technocrati no anything about linux in the west (its apparently different in Asia).

    Everyone knows about google.
    Put the red green, yellow and blue skin on it give it a name starting with G and a lot of people will try it.

    Because it has mindshare. A brand if you will.
    A brand that a lot of people for whatever reason (and a track record of cool, free software is probably one of the reasons) trust.

    That's the real difference between google's OS and ubuntu or other linux distro.

    Mindshare ansd the fact that it wil probably come pre installed, if not on PCs, then on embedded devices.

    And I bet it will interface really well with android phones.

    So it will be more like Apple than ubuntu or MS.

    A trusted brand, known for innovation, works with your phone/mp3 players, and other devices.

    Every disto fanboy is the same Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    We created a new distro, due to the deficiencies in the available distros. That's what makes OSS great.
    ---- years later ---
    Please don't make a new distro, ours is good enough. New distros just splinter OSS.

    Google's GUI is a significant fork more than just another distro Anonymous -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148149)

    I think in this case since Google intends to use a completely different front end, the difference is a little deeper than you allude to.

    Assuming a developer wanted to support the GOS, based on the litle info I;ve seen, he'd need to write the GUi code twice, once for GOS's frontend, whtecer it is called, and once for X11.

    All the other linux distros in teh world (intended for desktops) support X11. G-OS doesn't.
    Sure you can probably port it and run it in parallel with the primary GUI system, like you do with X11 and quartz under OSX, but by going their own way witht eh GUI Google is forking the linux app space far more than just another boring distro.

    In the long run it may be just the thing.
    X11 may well be holding linux back in some ways (though it is fairly workable by now) but in the short term Google really does look like it is forking, not at the OS level but at the GUI level, which is the level where apps, the things users are really interested in, live.

    iPhone = best platform? Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    "Android is a great mobile operating system, second only to Apple's iPhone platform."

    What makes iPhone the best mobile operating system? I have an iPhone and it makes calls just the same as any other platform. The fact that it can run only one application at a time, not to mention the horrible application approval process, makes it the worst in the smartphone field in terms of application support in my opinion.

    good article Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    we dont want another half baked life time beta products form google.Google did good job in search and we are very happy for you. But we dont want to be victim of you business rivalary or somthing like that. Microsoft is best with OS and those who dont want MS OS they have other linux based options. focus on your core search becasue bing is coming after you. very fast.

    stop this non sense and stop being evil.

    Chrome OS will not compete with Linux Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    Google is looking at a platform that is in its infancy right now: Portable internet devices. Netbooks are the current iteration and they pretty much suck. A tablet or something like an iPhone or iPod Touch is the where Google wants to go. Chrome OS will be on those devices that are used for accessing the web and getting email. Simplification.

    .NET Sam -- 09/07/09

    Even if you're right, fragmentation isn't always a sufficient condition for perpetual difficulty and inconvenience. Take .NET, for example. Do you think it's possible that with increasing fragmentation a .NET-esque system could develop unifying the principles of interaction with the more complex elements of the various Linux OS's?

    Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if Google was trying to take on the 1% Linux market. Really, what were they trying to do with Chrome? Take on IE? I think they have this idea that if they can release enough stuff that integrates together, eventually they can suck people into it.

    If I could suggest to Google how they might actually gain some significant portion of the market share outside of the search world I would suggest two things: Make computers, then put out commercials for the computers.

    The general problem companies have in trying to gain market share from Microsoft is that the vast majority of people don't know why it is important to use one browser over another and they don't have enough confidence in their ability to quickly learn a new interface. If Google decided to manufacture computers with the same power as PC's but less expensive and loaded with Google's software, then, if they were to invest some capital into "coolness" and "easiness" geared TV ads, I think they could actually accomplish something.

    What google was doing with chrome is... Anonymous -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148156)

    What google were trying to do with Chrome was change the way browser's run/ are architected, to align with the changes in the way web sites have evolved into web apps.
    In particualr Chrome is intended to make AJAX more snappy (under IE, my gmail mbox with hundred of tags pretty much stops me browsing with IE for a few minutes when I first load it - not a problem under chrome), and to reduce the impact of crashes in the javascript or rendering engines. I.e. you don;t lose everything in your browser just because one page misbehaves.

    I think they were also intending to assist in the development/support of offline use of webapps, e.g. being able to sue google docs, even though you're not on the web.

    See http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/why.html for the details from the horse's mouth.

    Re your .NET comments, I'm not really sure what you are trying to say.

    But for your info there is a Linux equivilant of .NET, its been around for ages, tis called java.

    It provides a virtual machine/execution environment, that can be accessed from many languages compiled into an intermediate byte code.
    The bit Java misses (which .NET has) is consistent look and feel, and what GOS or COS is going to do wont help the other linuxes in this respect.

    Design Around This Eric Patat -- 09/07/09

    It's not what the software does...
    it's what the user does.

    Ah but... Anonymous -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148157)

    You have to also remember though, that most users are stupid muppets.

    It's about control Matthew Fabb -- 09/07/09

    Look at the browser market. Google could have worked to Firefox to add any innovations it had for Chrome towards Firefox, but instead they fragmented the browsers market even more. While some users were happy at the announcement of Chrome the browser (why couldn't have Google come up with a new name for their OS?) most developers I know said "Not ANOTHER browser", as it just increases testing time and fixes of web sites and web applications to support another browser.

    Just as with the browser and with the OS, Google would like help from the community in order to get free resources but ultimately wants to be in control of the final product.

    Also while Chrome browser tracks users surfing habits, I imagine the Chrome OS will track users habits, all for Google to build more information about people in order to sell ads better through search. Something that the open source community would never agree to if Google was not in control.

    Chrome not so easy to graft onto firefox Anonymous -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148160)

    Not having read the code for either I am not definitive here, but I am fairly certain that doing what Google wanted to do with Chrome would have been a non trivial technical and political/community exercise with firefox.

    Chrome is designed on a totally different premise than firefox, to address problems that weren't really problems when firefox was first introduced or more likely when its parent mozilla was written.

    The role of the browesr and how it is used has changed quite a lot since firefox was first drafted and even more since mozila went open source.

    Again see:
    http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/why.html

    Not just about advertising revenue? zato -- 09/07/09

    "And as for Google not caring about the desktop ... they should care about users! Not just about advertising revenue :)

    Cheers,

    Renai LeMay
    News Editor
    ZDNet.com.au"

    This is an ugly, hater comment, that is par for the course from the typical unemployed basement-dwelling PC gamer that post 90% of the comments on ZDNet, but shocking to see from the "News Editor".
    Mr Renai LeMay.s title should be Anti-Google propaganda editor.

    Google doesn't have feelings to hurt Sketco -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148167)

    Google is a publicly-traded corporation. It is not a person with feelings to hurt . A corporation is an economic tool. (As we are too often reminded, it is in business only to make money: if it was a person, we would be well be justified in hating it.) Assuming "hate" can be meaningfully applied to such a thing, hating it is on par with hating a hammer, a bicycle, the one dollar coin or committee meetings - and about as morally reprehensible (i.e. not at all).

    Your rant against actual human beings ("typical unemployed", "basement-dwelling"), however, is another matter.

    Well. Anonymous -- 15/07/09 (in reply to #320148167)

    It just continues the dumbass treend of the editor. Remember, this is the guys that reckoned a 'Silicon Valley' would sprout in NSW if NSW DET selected linux for their desktop... He's in fantasy land...

    Missing the point aren't we. Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    It's been a while since I've seen anyone so totally 'missing the point' and every paragraph is just full of FUD. This is the most thinly written 'anti-google' piece I have ever seen.

    Microsoft would be proud by your tactics.

    Um... Anonymous -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148171)

    So full of FUD that you neglect to give ANY examples??

    Stupid article Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    For all Google has done, and this irrelevant jerk-off is going to criticize them.

    Really stupid article... Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    Chrome isn't going to splinter anything. Why don't you just rant in general about all the Linux operating systems that are the flavor of the month.

    Just another flavour of Linux, ay Mel Sommersberg -- 09/07/09

    I won't bother with it. When is Google going to start doing something original instead of just adapting everyone else's hard work for their own commercial gain?

    Whatta silly comment that was! Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148177)

    The irony of your comment's context with respect to this article is that..They aren't trying to adopt someone else's ideas or concept.... Google isn' t trying to revamp Ubuntu or rework their own Android for desktops...

    They are trying to build something ground up... and you say they are trying to be a copycat...
    Come on man!... pay heed to the age old moral... Think before you ink..

    Nah, it wasn't. It was the right thing to do Mel Sommersberg -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148187)

    Including the Linux kernel in Chrome is called ripping. Why can't the softcorks develop their own kernel and release an OS in its own right?

    The fact is that Google badge-engineer everything they flog to their gullible fanboys - read: suckers.

    I have the foresight to see through their stupidity by reading articles like this one and keeping informed.

    Umm what? James Purser -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148295)

    How exactly is using the Linux Kernel called ripping? If this is what you think then you are sadly missing the point about Free and Open Source Software. That is it's there for everyone to use, so long as they obey the licensing.

    On the article itself, I do detect many of the arguments that were used when Ubuntu was first launched, especially by Debianistas.

    Someone somewhere is ranting about THE BIG G trying to do a thing... the same th Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    Google knows what its doing and they are more than aware of the hullabo that their announcement would create.

    In short, they know what they want and what their users want. They created Chrome- the finest browser that works like magic.* Now they want to take their work further into creating a Web based OS which does what it is supposed to do.... perform well with respect to Web Apps.

    It's takes innovation to shift the paradigm of computing. Google is trying to convert the desktop mania to "Webtop" mania.

    Let them do what they are trying to do. They know existing OSes are not what they envision.

    And linux guys... I respect you for your geekiness and nerdiness... infact I love Ubuntu for its progress..

    But it would be silly if you rant about this because the same rant could and should very well apply to you during your inception.( No thanks Ubuntu or whateva!... we have Debian)..

    no google on my pc or phone Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    one word: vaporware

    i'd never allow google to control my pc or phone. i only use their chrome browser for surfing pron. i'd never use it for anything serious.

    i simply don't trust google at all. even less so than microsoft.

    Lol!...... Now dont google the spelling of porn. Anonymous -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148181)

    So ... does that mean you build your own OS and browser and live in utopia... Man!.... U r d man!..

    Whatta silly comment that was! Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    The irony of your comment's context with respect to this article is that..They aren't trying to adopt someone else's ideas or concept.... Google isn' t trying to revamp Ubuntu or rework their own Android for desktops...

    They are trying to build something ground up... and you say they are trying to be a copycat...
    Come on man!... pay heed to the age old moral... Think before you ink..

    What? Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    Ubuntu blasted through the Linux community? I think what you will find is Ubuntu blasted through very few of the real Linux users, and rather, it blasted through many of the geeks that wanted to use Linux day-to-day and couldn't because of the learning curve involved in using it efficiently for all tasks. What real server operations use Ubuntu as their primary distro? What good is a pretty GUI on your X-less server? Red Hat and the like will always reign supreme for servers as they are more functional as established server platforms and more importantly, stable.

    Re: What? Anonymous -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148199)

    WIkipedia uses Ubuntu for their infrastructure, pretty sure that Google runs Debian or Ubuntu (not sure about this)

    Flame bait Peter T. -- 09/07/09

    I've no idea whether the author was serious or if the article is simply flame-bait. Either way, I disagree. As others have indicated, Linux, despite its many incantations, holds only 1% of the market. Sure, it could be said that the last thing the world needs is another version of Linux. Nonetheless, the opposing view is that what the world needs is at least one, strong, commercially viable Linux. What the world needs is another OS capable of reducing the dominance of M$. I suspect that Google is quite capable of proving that.

    grow up Anonymous -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148207)

    You do realise that as soon as you (and anyone else) refer to microsoft using the '$' symbol, any and all arguments you put forward are totally nullified by your perceived childishness and immaturity.
    Grow the hell up!
    If you can't make the simplest of arguments without reverting to the mindset of a 4th grader then you shouldn't be making them in the first place.

    MS is different to M$ Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu) -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148484)

    The reason I use M$ is because 'MS' was already taken by the Multiple Sclerosis society. People with a life-threatening condition outrank commercial considerations... but with the dollar sign, you know it is the commercial entity one is talking about.
    Now 'Windoze' is a different issue.
    Still, M$ has shovelled its own lot of FUD over the years. Who could forget the ad campaign, "You worry about security... we're on top of it" from M$. It was clearly in response to the news articles that M$' offerings had security holes all through them, so M$ took out TV ads seeking to implant the idea that they were the preferred OS for anyone worried about security issues. Adding the dollar sign to indicate that M$ is more concerned about profits in only a tiny use of imagery in reverse.

    Wally Anonymous -- 14/07/09 (in reply to #320149074)

    Graeme 'Pure as the driven snow' Harrison strikes again. The poster is right - this 'M$' thing is simply tiresome.

    Isn't this where we're all headed anyways? Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    So perhaps they shouldn't walk the OpenSource line and stay completely internal, or vice versa. Either way, the future of the OS is undoubtedly in the direction google is taking this: to the web. Connections are faster than ever, hardware getting cheaper, applications easier to write and distribute.

    I for one, embrace this change. It won't be long before Apple and M$ bring something similar to the table.

    Peter T. Peter T. -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148210)

    M$ had their chance with Vista - and blew it completely. They've had a second chance with W7, and, from all accounts, the basic version of W7 will still be considerably hardware-heavy compared to this OS from Google. M$ has spend too many years writing bloatware, so-much-so that I doubt it has the capacity to write a truly minimal OS along the lines of what Google proposes.

    hardware heavy? Anonymous -- 10/07/09 (in reply to #320148212)

    Huh? You're comparing a not-yet-RTM-released MS OS to a not even written Google OS that is basically just a web browser and nothing more?

    Way to go. How did it feel jumping the shark by so much?

    Pro-innovation Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    Its all about choice.... Why do have many car manufacturers, many breakfast cereals etc? It's because people like to be able to choose what suits them best; also competition breeds innovation.

    I imagine that most of you are developers etc, and if there was no innovation or new products, there would be no work for us.

    So I say bring on as many OS /Browsers/Apps etc as possible. You never know if that one will come up with a brilliant solution.

    who cares about the OS Rob Demon -- 09/07/09

    this is a great move by Google. With Chrome they got massive development happening in the browser market. Their idea wasn't for people to use chrome but instead to get browsers better, and its working. Which makes it a better experience for people getting to Google's world on the web. Android - make the phone part of the web. Working. Chrome OS - make the OS irrelevant, and just a means to get securely to the web. Windows is too desktop centric, as is Linux (and too geek). Its exactly what a netbook needs. Hey, stick a good enough graphics interface (ala dx for windows) and game makers have a good standard interface to work to.

    Ha! Anonymous -- 15/07/09 (in reply to #320148224)

    umm... so what does your PC run in?

    The new Microsoft Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    It is incredible that such a large mass of people are such sheep when it comes to Google.

    I am first to admit they make great products.

    I understand the widely marketed opinion that it is absolutely impossible for Google to be anything but nice guys ("do no evil") BUT c'mon, wake up - they are a public listed company with a bottom line and a very aggressive strategy to control the internet ALL while balancing a fine line of the good guy image - something most of the readers here are happy to lap up (and defend).

    Lets be clear here -Google has one strategy and that is to control the internet and increase revenue. This is known as a monopoly.

    EVERY product they release they will have a high level of control over - i.e. entire google product range tied in.

    This OS release is a very careful strategy for Google to further increase share and control (and revenue) - I challenge anyone to claim otherwise - i.e. they are releasing an OS just because they like to give products out. Riiiiggght . ..

    "Do no evil" bah

    How clearly you miss the point! Peter T. -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148227)

    "It is incredible that such a large mass of people are such sheep when it comes to Google."

    It is not just about supporting or not supporting M$ or Google. It is about development of effective competition so that M$ develops a better product at a cheaper price.

    The more Linux the better Chris Smart -- 09/07/09

    Google _will_ leverage work done by Ubuntu, and Red Hat, and Novell, and Intel and everyone else who contributes to free software.

    They couldn't use Ubuntu for this project as they have completely different set of goals (which you'll realise if you read about it).

    And quite frankly Ubuntu isn't "all that" and I wish people would stop talking it up as the only answer to everything. It is good. It has its place. It has pulled in lots of new users to Linux as well as long time Linux users from other distros. But it's also buggy and rushed and doesn't offer much over other modern distros.

    I'm thankful there are hundreds of Linux distributions out there. They all benefit from each other and that's something that is a major difference between Unix and Linux. Everyone benefits from improvements made to Linux, not so with Unix due to its closed nature.

    The more Linux we have the better.

    -c

    Why think negative? Rubayeet -- 09/07/09

    It isn't even out and people are already ranting about. I simply don't understand the motive behind this kind of negative thinking. Let's talk about possibilities the new OS is going to create, not about what other OS Linux/Windows/Mac it's going to kill.

    Because it is justified Mel Sommersberg -- 09/07/09 (in reply to #320148279)

    What possibilities will it create? We already have Windows, OS X, a dozen or more flavours of Linux and there are still the more ancient operating systems that still hold their ground in many environments such as FreeBSD and OpenBSD.

    As I have said elsewhere here, Chrome OS will just be another Linux that just happens to come with a GUI. It's been done before, there's nothing special about it although there is certainly nothing wrong with what Google is doing but that isn't the point. Google is marketing this operating system as the final frontier of the Internet and will no doubt use their own market power to dump the brown stuff on Microsoft whilst accusing Microsoft of abusing their own market power.

    Google's position here is clearly needless and hypocritical. I wouldn't touch Chrome OS or browser with a bargepole. Watching Kevin Rudd eat his earwax is more entertaining and beneficial.

    You're missing the point. Anonymous -- 09/07/09

    As far as I understand, Google OS is not a replacement for any desktop oriented OS (maybe we should coin a term other than "OS" to talk about that)

    Google OS's specificity is not even about "netbook-oriented"; it is about leveraging the web as a platform.

    What does it mean?
    Any application designed for Google OS will, in fact, be a web application that will run under either Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari, and any "modern browser" under any operating system.

    The only thing Google OS aims to provide is an execution environment for these applications that should be as lightweight as possible.

    I expect that there will be many limitations for this platform: what happens if I'm offline? privacy? security? special hardware?
    But I also expect that, with HTML5, the web-platform will be more powerful than ever.

    How powerful exactly? That remains to be seen.

    But count on Google to show us what the web is capable of.

    Hmm... Anonymous -- 10/07/09

    Coin any phrase you like for "desktop operating system", as long as it's not DOS. Please, do not make it DOS.

    Meanwhile: I like to speculate about this kind of stuff, with little experience or understanding...

    I've read of eyeOS and various others which are apparently server-side web operating systems. Users can log into their personalised desktop from wherever they are, on any computer, any browser. This is what I presume is the case for Chrome OS, as many others have stated.

    Would I want Google to host or have access to even meta-data about most of my personal files, etc? No.
    On the other hand my phone does run Android, and I do use gmail and google calendar, among other things.

    Open-source: The point is freedom. I for one welcome all constructive input.

    Ubuntu: Has its place, I enjoyed it when I used it, but soon switched to Mint and have experienced similar levels of enjoyment at less time-cost.

    Linux in general: I'm yet to experience a GUI for Linux that genuinely feels professionally polished. Gnome feels clunky sometimes, KDE has gone downhill since the release of 4.x, many of the WM's cling to ancient graphics. It seems to me that desktop-oriented Linux distributions are aimed at the lowest [un]common denominator of hardware, and anything that requires a graphics card (compiz-fusion?) gets hacked on top (apparently with some form of inelegant axe/spade/large hammer) resulting in various glitches.

    Don't tell me that Linux has polish.

    I do like it, though. It does what I need without affecting my bank account. I really like that about it.

    Polished GUI *is* a problem Anonymous -- 11/07/09 (in reply to #320148437)

    I fully agree with you on the polished front end. The very thing Open Source and Linux is built on (freedom of choice) seems to be the very thing against it. What happens when someone doesn't like the way a particular WDM works? They go and fork it (instead of contributing to an existing WDM).

    Having said that, this is where Google has a chance. If they (or anyone) can produce a WDM that consolidates applications written on top of any Framework (be it Java, Tcl/Tk etc...) into a common polished UI, then Linux may very well evolve further into the desktop market. While functionally, most modern versions of Linux are capable - I don't know too many people who would generally buy their computer through Harvey Norman, DSE etc... choose Ubuntu over Windows 7 letalone Mac OS X if appearance was one of the sellers.

    Australians don't get a choice - TPA violation Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu) -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320148648)

    The above anon post noted: "I don't know too many people who would generally buy their computer through Harvey Norman, DSE etc choose Ubuntu over Windows 7..."

    But in fact, if our watchpuppy the ACCC was doing its job in enforcing the Trade Practices Act, the type of back-room deals that keep alternative OSs off the shelves would be ruled illegal. It is clearly a breach of the TPA for M$ to do deals for M$ exclusivity (ie no support or pre-installation of other OSs). Those deals may be done at the US head office of Dell, HP etc, but the implementation of them in Australia is prohibited by Australian law.

    So, in short, we simply don't know what percentage of people would prefer a pre-installed Ubuntu, with broad range of apps, because in Australia you'll get a M$ OS pre-installed, whether you wanted to buy one or not!

    How would you feel if Heinz went along and did a deal with all the pie shops, that you could only buy a pie with the cost of sauce included (makes more sense than an OS bundling). How would you feel if Coke did a deal with all hamburger joints that you could only buy a hamburger if it was bundled with a coke? We don't stand for it elsewhere, the ACCC ought get off its tail and do something. And if KRudd was smart enough to suggest that the Commonwealth was going to embrace Open Source, including on all the Fed-paid-for school student laptops, then we'd be going somewhere technologically, rather than committing yet another generation to paying $1b+pa in licences to Redmond, when good free solutions abound. A solid commitment by the Feds, combined with enforcement by the ACCC would go a long way to eradicating our balance of payments deficit... and all our school kids would end up more computer-savvy to boot.

    Install fest idea Anonymous -- 13/07/09 (in reply to #320149077)

    Actually your comment has given me an idea for an installfest.

    Assuming you can still decline the terms and conditions for windows and get a refund by returning it unused/unsealed....

    You set up permanent (maned every weekend) install fest type booths outside, JB, Harvey Norman etc.

    You tell people that they are eligible for a however many dollars it is refund if they return their windows install seal unbroken and you do the linux install for them on the spot.

    It's not pre installed, but it's the next best thing and the refund of the OEM price of windows is possibly enough to encourage people to take the option as they walk out the store.

    Part of the TPA violation is that you get nil refund from M$ Graeme Harrison (prof at-symbol post.harvard.edu) -- 16/07/09 (in reply to #320149212)

    Part of the TPA complaint against M$ is that, if you ask any major hardware retailer in Australia the question "OK, that's you package price for this laptop, but if I don't want the Microsoft Operating System, how much does the price drop by?" you will find that the price drops by NIL.
    In other words, Microsoft makes money from initial OS licences, but if you ask for it to be unbundled, they can't do it, because the hardware manufacturers signed up for an "all or nothing" arrangement with Microsoft. And M$ works almost exclusively via full-exclusivity deals, with a view to keeping competitive OS offerings OUT.

    Dell does have a small non-promoted Linux offering in the USA, but Dell Australia sells the same model laptops, but without the ability to select Linux rather than M$.

    People have cited that the return rate has been higher for Linux laptops from discount chains in the US, but most of this is put down to the idea that people simply did not realise till they got it home that it was not M$. But the bigger issue is that there is no price difference, due to M$' practice of exclusivity deals with hardware manufacturers.

    But unbundling would help even the M$ supporters. Most XP users do NOT want to be forced to Vista if they buy new hardware, but under the bundling deal, they are forced onto Vista. Going backwards (downgrading) is made very hard by M$, as it does not want non-Vista users. And the 'practice' of buying (even if you didn't want to) a new M$ OS with every new hardware upgrade, has meant that M$ can now get away with not providing consumers with any install disks for the OS. You can't even safely try another OS install and revert to your M$ one if you want to... because M$ doesn't like that practice. This also means it is very hard to set up dual boot OS arrangements, whereas that was relatively easy with XP, as you had the XP install disks from original purchase. But why should you be forced to go to a new OS anyway. M$ is misusing its market power over hardware manufacturers in pressuring them to take you on a journey you never agreed to take... and prevent you back-tracking on that journey.

    Clearly the ACCC simply believe they are not up to the task, and they are probably right. They will simply watch what EU regulators do, but the EU regulators feel that they are alone on these issues, with other advanced economies allowing themselves to be bullied into allowing breaches of their competition laws. If Australia drew a line in the sand, insisting on transparent pricing and consumer rights to unbundle, the EU would take real note of our actions and the market would become fairer and more transparent.

    Open your eyes Anonymous -- 14/07/09 (in reply to #320149077)

    And look wht happens when people choose linux on netbooks - they return them at four times the rate of Windows based machines!! Wake up to yourself... and if this iss uch a big deal - do something about it you serial whiner.

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Linux-teething-problems-affect-netbook-returns/0,130061702,339292575,00.htm

    haha Anonymous -- 21/07/09 (in reply to #320149524)

    That's great. Guaranteed to make the Linux lovers cry their eyes out xD

    Bloody Hell! Anonymous -- 14/07/09 (in reply to #320149077)

    Get a job. You're not busy enough.

    $$$$ Anonymous -- 17/07/09

    Eu vou escrever em português mesmo, quem quiser entender que traduza!
    Parem de ficar chorando, tudo isto é por dinheiro!
    Pq o google não ajudou o ubuntu? Pq ele espera fazer grana com o sistema dele!!!

    wow... Anonymous -- 18/07/09

    Like others have said before me, lot of people here total missing the point of Google Chrome OS.

    This is a total move from having your data on a local hard drive, to having it stored on a server somewhere else. The future: cloud computing. That is what Google is trying to do. Create an OS for this day and age, not on the old way of doing things, which is Linux, Windows, etc.

    I know I'm thinking ahead here potentially by years, but it's already happening. have a look at something called EyeOS. An operating system using PHP and AJAX that runs in a web browser. Amazing stuff. This to me is the future. Ultra thin client computers connected to servers that process the i/o.

    I'm probably get flamed for this, but that's my vision for the future. And I believe that's what Google is trying to do.

    Why not become a copycat? Erasmus Jose Fabello -- 05/08/09

    Linux distros, ubuntu in particular, awakened the public's interest towards alternative Operating system. However to get linux to become mainstream, why not become a copycat? Build from down up an OS most users would want to use because of familiarity, the ease of using, the feel maybe.. up to the way it looks. Linux is heading towards geekily town, everyone is geek in so many ways... but not everyone is heading that way. To make it mainstream is to make it the way it has been (people being used to using the dominant OS which is windows). 6 billion people in this planet and only one dominant OS? what a waste of talent. With Google on the edge of building an OS... that will be a welcome treat... because for sure.. the way Google's OS is heading is simply an extension of what the company does best. Advertising. This is genuinely called "continuity". And everyone will embrace it.

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