Is it Windows 7 or KDE 4? In this video, we take to Sydney's streets to find out what people think of what they think is a Windows 7 demonstration.
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The net result? Mainly, people just didn't like Vista.
What do you think? Do Windows 7 and KDE 4 just look way too alike to tell the difference? Which one looks better? Post your comments below.
yeah, i'd like to see that part.
"by the way, this isn't windows, and it won't run any of your sh*t"
"oh, well i won't be using THAT then. thanks for pointing it out."
Well...actually it kinda does...
I mean... people already use free software...
Most of people use Firefox...
VLC is also pretty much popular...
So does OpenOffice...
And for everything else... well, you see what they said : KDE4 is easier (and KDE4 does everything a lambda user may want to do... and much more).
Most people don't use Firefox. They've made gains but I think they are at 30%.
I have Windows 7 and Unbuntu with KDE4 on my laptop and they are definitely similar and I actually like them both equally. However in terms of device integration (mobile phones). Windows still does a better job. If you are going to use a computer for office work and nothing but I would always recommend Ubuntu. But for daily life and plug and go functionality Windows is still better. Granted you can get almost anything to work on linux. It just takes more work. Community support is great if you have a certain level of knowledge already. But you tell Joe the Plumber that he needs to enter a sudo command in terminal to install that third party app to get his ndiswrapper installed so his wireless N card will sort of work is too much.
Linux has a bit of work before it can truly be called an end user OS for the masses.
Windows does better with phones because phone manufacturers write drivers for Windows before Linux or Mac or BSD. It's not so much Linux's fault, it's the consumer who needs to keep demanding drivers for their devices.
you come to that conclusion after trying Ubuntu "on your laptop?" Wow, I guess that makes you quite an expert.
What takes a lot of work is installing windows, installing all the drivers, installing all the anti-virus and anti-malware programs, keeping the system running past 6 weeks without it getting bogged down, and getting used to the awful interface that breaks almost every rule of good user interface design that exists.
Linux is already used on millions of desktops around the world, in business, in government, in homes. It doesn't have a lot of work "before it truly can be called an end user OS for the masses," that's absurd. What needs a lot of work are people's low level of computer knowledge and biased attitudes in favor of windows that they've picked up through marketing, despite all the major headaches on windows for end users.
Were are those rules you referring to, would love to see what they based on.
Redmond probably employs GP's, Biokineticists, hell throw in a Orthopaedic surgeon while we're at it to assist with ergonomics and design.
again,
please post those rule.
Those rules would be common sense, of which you have none.
You get all those 'ists' involved and the common people don't get it, don't like it, don't want it, can't or won't use it.
It's as simple as that. Most people still fill their screens with Icons, ala Windows 2.0.
Linux on the desktop isn't at 1% yet. Linux on the desktop is a non issue. I installed Windows Vista 64 bit and i didn't need to download a single driver. Ive been using Vista since it came out and have yet to experience this bogging down you and your freetards keep saying happens.
But keep lying about windows it only prove that you freetards are a bunch of liars. and the "almost there" what? this is truly the year of Linux on the desktop AGAIN?? HAHAHA only for the last 10 or so years you freetards keep saying. FYI Freetard - a Linux zealot
Microsoft just stated that Linux was a greater threat to their desktop monopoly than Apple. In fact Apple was not even on the list.
you must use your "Vista" computer for listening to music and looking at your photo uploads......nothing more...LOL
I work full time in Hollywood Visual FX and spend more time on my Vista 64 machine then the Linux 64 machine. Vista has done well in handling very heavy workloads and detail rich scenes. The only problems I have had are hardware failures (which is not the fault of any OS). So go back to listening to YOUR music and uploading YOUR photos and stfu.
Just some of the problems with Windows performance.
1 ) The way applications install is overly complex. There is no advantage of the windows registry as far as i am aware....lots of poorly written third party applications generally screw it up - eventually this leads to performance problems. I guess this just depends on what applications you use.
2) Windows security has always been screwed.They have never done 'sudo' security properly, instead the default setting on a fresh install is for the user to run as administrator......this is really bad! They should implement a system like Debian 'sudo'. This leads to mistakes by users + more open doors for Malware and viruses.
3) Windows in general (especially vista) is very clunky taking up obscene abouts of disk space and requiring stupid hardware specifications. Is this all so you can have a couple of extra hardware drivers and some eye candy?
With the thousands of developers working within Microsoft, you would assume they are capable of coming up with a better system then a bunch of 'freetards' can right? Why would you pay for something you can get for free. Its not about replacing one system with another, its about a different way of thinking.
1. This is just as true of Linux. I've had many times there's a feature in the version of an Application in the software repo that doesn't work right.. now you've got to figure out how to do a build yourself more often than not... I don't mind it, but it's far from easier.
2. Actually Windows 7 with default settings pretty much works right in this regard. A bit more straight forward than sudo even, though asking a user for their password if they have one would be optimum.
3. Windows 7 is far more reasonable with resources than Vista was... Also, current KDE and Gnome releases with the GUI enhancements have some pretty hefty requirements as well.
as for your final comments, design by committee is hardly a formula for timeliness or success, let alone MS's pretty high support for backwards compatibility, of which you get *none* with Linux. I like Linux a lot, I actually like Windows 7 a lot (hated Vista), but you are simply ill-informed and or wrong.
I used Windows for many years, and have recently switched to ubuntu, first of all, I could have never been happier, so far linux has performed better than windows in every area of it's use. the one thing that I love about this system is unlike windows it does not degrade, get slower, i don't get viruses, I agree windows 7 was a big step up from Vista, but again after using it for 6 months it degraded so much, was crashing and was riddled with viruses, windows 7 is just another flop from the lazy programmers from microsoft. sorry but from windows to linux, I shall never go back
RE: the FUD "Linux on the desktop isn't at 1% yet. Linux on the desktop is a non issue."
No, you are wrong. You obviously have zero idea what you are talking about.
So you had a good install of Vista. BFD. You may not have thought you had to download a driver (in reality Vista did this for you)--this has been present in OpenSUSE and most Linux distributions for years. I have had one piece of hardware _ever_ that didn't work w/ Linux (it was a el cheapo Windows only printer). I do hope you took the time to research, purchase, and install your firewall, antivirus, anti-spam ware, disk defragmenter, backup, word processor, etc. That process _is_ missing from most Linux installs since it is either included (with professional/enterprise class software none-the-less) or not needed (Writing viruses for Linux/UNIX is very, very hard. Almost impossible to create one which will spread in the real world.)
I would encourage people to think for them selves, use their freedom of choice, and try a good desktop Linux distribution (I think OpenSUSE is by far the best choice, but Ubuntu is fine too).
I switched from Windows years ago, and while some of the early years were a little painful, current KDE 4.3 is really, really cool--and useful. You don't even have to go buy software--most of the software you will ever need is included in the repositories. You just check the box next to the software you want and everything (operating system, drivers, applications, etc.) is kept up to date.
"I installed Windows Vista 64 bit and i didn't need to download a single driver. Ive been using Vista since it came out and have yet to experience this bogging down you and your freetards keep saying happens. "
I just built a brand new computer. Intel i7, high end Nvidia, etc.
Ubuntu was easy. After I installed it, I ran the updater and then told it to use the Nvidia proprietary driver it found for me. Done.
Vista (for games only) took longer. After the install, had to hunt down drivers for my sound card, video card, and chipset. After those installed Vista wanted to update, fine. So it sat and downloaded.. then told me it couldn't get them all, so I had to reboot. Each half of the reboot took 15 mins, down and up again. After it got back into the OS, it downloaded more updates, same story, took forever to update and reboot. After the 2nd reboot for updates alone, I thought I was done. Two days later it's back and bugging me for another list of updates id hasn't installed yet. I didn't install any other programs, Office, antivirus, etc, etc since I don't need them to run games. So I probably missed out on more updates than I already got. Tell me Vista is easier, really?
Actually, according to a Microsoft slide on a power point presentation, there are more Linux desktop users than there are Mac users. Also on that note, they reached 1.02% in May. Desktop computing isn't really what Microsoft is worried about. It's that whole part where the vast majority of the world is run by Linux/Unix/Solaris/BSD... not their ****-backwards server OS.
ROFL :D what you just said :D I never read anything funnier :D
Well, I don't like Windows very much, but I feel that I need to oppone.
"What takes a lot of work is installing windows, installing all the drivers, "
Who told you that? Windows Vista AND Windows Seven are installed on any computer in less than 15 minutes. When I was installing my new 7, I got up from the PC to get some coffee and when I came back it was already installed. It asks no questions, does not need you to click on any button and just works!
"installing all the anti-virus and anti-malware programs"
I have windows XP on my computer now for 3-4 years, and never got more than one virus at the same time. I am using just ONE program, ESET SmartSecurity, and no other anti-malware, anti-spybot, anti-whatever programs.
"Linux is already used on millions of desktops around the world,"
Yeah, well windows is used on hundreds of millions of them...
"It doesn't have a lot of work "before it truly can be called an end user OS for the masses," that's absurd. What needs a lot of work are people's low level of computer knowledge"
You really expect NORMAL people (not nerds like ... nevermind) to know how to use commands such as sudo apt-get install?
Don't you feel that using a terminal is sort of... out-dated today? Well at least I do.
OK, Bill, you are right, you've convinced me :-)
you don't have to use the terminal any more you do know that? just shows how ignorant you are of Linux. You don't need to go through files to change stuff, and you don't need to know **** to use linux. Hell I have my GF who knows very little about computers working with ubuntu very nicely and she prefers it more than windows.
And how many times have you had to setup a given piece of hardware? I know it took quite a bit of digging and fiddling to get my mp3 player to integrate with Amarok properly. I also know I've had to install more than a handful of applications with make/gmake. Also, I've gone through several OS updates where the updates broke a lot of applications... Every point update to the kernel breaks VMWare...
If's far from the utopia you describe.
"Windows Vista AND Windows Seven are installed on any computer in less than 15 minutes. When I was installing my new 7, I got up from the PC to get some coffee and when I came back it was already installed"
Did you know that many grocery stores sells coffee toasted and ground? lol
You can't say how many computers use windows or linux, MS uses the figures given by OEM but many of that machines are formatted and use Linux now, usually Firefox and Opera are configured to mimic IE and Linux doesn't have number of sell units, a disk can be copied n times.
Windows is a good OS if you don't go to Internet, don't bring home many USB sticks and don't install and uninstall too much software, market has the better games for windows. But for daily tasks, use safely internet, swap information and company savings Linux is the best.
I tried to install Windows 7. Put the disk in... waited five minutes to choose how to install it... didn't detect my hard drive... had to install my controller (by exiting out and going into Linux, which detected all of my hardware)... came back to the installer... used the driver... installed Windows 7... Had to reinstall grub because Windows can't offer an 'advanced mode' to allow you not to install their boot loader... Without the re-installation of grub (which took me 2 minutes), I spent 2 hours trying to install WIndows 7. Fedora 11 took 12 minutes. Yeah, Windows 7 is definitely superior... At least Linux has basic hardware drivers/modules built into itself.
apt-get install (whatever) is not required to be known by all users. What needs to be known is Synaptic Pakage Manager (SPM). GUI for the simple users and terminal for pro's? Its got both. Im sure they will figure it out, if they cant find SPM then they dont deserve a PC...
It seems you have the truely biased attitude here. I have used many flavors of Linux, and all the Windows ones. Windows wins for me hands down, it's much friendlier.
In that video it was obviously KDE, but of course the average joe in the street pay no attention to it, so go on, all you clued up people.. laugh at the dumb ones who of course won't know the difference.
Really...
I've come to that conclusion after trying Ubuntu on my laptop, too.
You know why? Because Windows is OEM on my laptop. Windows Vista has never given me a lick of trouble installing a damn thing.
Most people nowadays do not have to install drivers to do much in Windows.
And you want to talk about awful interface? Try KDE 4.2, where when I open OOo, I can't minimize or close it or everything else goes black until I mouse over it just the right way. And I could use KOffice, if it didn't just suck.
You are evidently one of those Linux users that has apparently learned to deal with Linux's problems and then attributed them to other OSes. If you want to support Linux, that's great, but shut up about how easy it is, because it simply isn't.
"What takes a lot of work is installing windows, installing all the drivers, installing all the anti-virus and anti-malware programs, keeping the system running past 6 weeks without it getting bogged down, and getting used to the awful interface that breaks almost every rule of good user interface design that exists."
A Microsoft hater in the midst.
If you call spending 23 minutes installing Windows 7 "a lot of work" then there is something seriously wrong with you.
"What needs a lot of work are people's low level of computer knowledge and biased attitudes in favor of windows that they've picked up through marketing, despite all the major headaches on windows for end users."
What needs work is your poor outlook on life. Just about everyone has a drivers licence but most have never lifted the bonnet except to top up the water bottle. Why should everyone learn how to run Linux, an operating system that lacks the required 'out of the box' support to be a mainstream success, when they can pull out a Windows CD and have their new computer loaded and on the Internet in around 30 minutes?
Don't get me wrong, I like using non-Windows software for some uses - some of my servers run Free BSD - but that and Linux just don't cut it as a mainstream workstation OS.
Non-Windows environments are not keeping pace with software development in industry either. Most building management systems - computers that automate building facilities like HVAC, security, lighting and lifts are increasingly Windows-based. As are medical imaging and patient monitoring systems in hospitals.
> If you call spending 23 minutes installing Windows 7 "a lot of work" then there is something seriously wrong with you.
P4-3000, RAM 2 GB, HDD 250 GB SATA: 50 mins install for Win 7 BETA. And nobody guarantees that there is no badware in RTM version that makes it install two hours or more.
> Most building management systems - computers that automate building facilities like HVAC, security, lighting and lifts are increasingly Windows-based.
Are they Windows Vista or Windows 7-based? And XP and pre-XPs are outdated as MS have just announced. :D There will be a lot of fun to see all mentioned software failing on newer MS soft e.g. because of breaking full Win32 or abandoning SOAP support in MS SQL 2008... :D
> As are medical imaging and patient monitoring systems in hospitals.
A nice picture is to see physician's desktop hanging at the most interesting moment due to MS server failure... :D And BTW, MS does not allow use their consumer DESKTOP OR SERVER (!!!) OSes in patient monitoring systems: Win XP Embedded is a different OS with QUITE DIFFERENT pricing for install and support when it regards life-critical applications, BSD, QNX and real-time Linux being much easier to embed and working more robust.
And it is nice to buy patients' private data at a bazaar hacked from Windows-based systems...
:D :D :D
I've seen fully integrated clinic based on text-mode (!) Linux and central Oracle database; it worked without problems for 12+ years. Cheap hardware, cheap support, no viruses, no hangings, no information leaks. But no paybacks from MS for clinic authorities as well. :D :D :D
"Windows hater? No, a skilled man only."
You sound like a script kiddie, not someone with skills. I'm simply not going to bother ripping your comment apart and explaining why you are wrong with everything you said.
You did that yourself. Go back to playing with Lego and getting mummy to wipe the dribble off your chin.
installing windows takes only a few clicks then u just sit there waiting, installing drivers is basicalyl automatic now days, installing anti-virus and anti-malware takes a quick couple of google searches for stuff such as avg and spybot...or a few cds. not hard at all. keeping it running past 6 weeks is easy unless you're a complete idiot who doesn't use those anti-virus and anti-malware programs you installed. windows works fine and perfectly well for anyone with half a brain in computers. at this point in time, linux takes more work to run most things so it's not a real viable option for most people. just because you're too ignorant in basic computer health care to run windows, doesn't make it bad
Time it took to install on my Thinkpad T61p (2.5ghz C2D, 4gb ram, dual booting):
linux (Ubuntu 9.04): 10 min
Windows 7 rc: 25 - 30min
Amount of resources used:
linux: ~400mb ram 1-2% CPU Idle
windows: ~1gb ram 5-10% CPU Idle
Start up time (after post) to desktop, idle disk.:
linux: 15 - 20 seconds
windows: 45 - 60 seconds
Speed of hdd access (7200rpm 160gb drive):
linux (ext4): 55-70mbs
windows (ntfs): 40-50mbs
Time from install to customized desktop (installing software, themes, etc):
linux: 1-2 hours (yay aptitude)
windows: 4-6 hours
also to anyone who says gui's are better, they're wrong. I love the cli and at any given time on linux (and windows) I have at lease 1 shell open (yes, I use cmd in windows). It's much faster and easier to use. (also, it's not like I learned computers in the 70's, I'm only 19).
(Note that I run NO VIRUS PROTECTION on windows (or linux for that matter) and I have never gotten a virus on windows, really it's pretty difficult to get a virus, you have to be pretty stupid).
The command line is for those who truly understand efficiency.
And viruses... You are correct =D Although ad-ware can pile up in Windows after a while if you visit random sites every once in a while... don't see that happening in Linux though ^_^
Also, to note, I'm a 20yr old that does system administration tasks on about 12 servers on my campus (2 Windows and 10 Linux).
I never enter any command to make my GNU/Linux system to work.
It's only because I use Mandriva Linux 2009.
There is a great tool called the mandriva control center.
everything is available there, even a tool for setting up a web or ftp server.
regards,
J-Y.
I never enter any command to make my GNU/Linux system to work.
> It's only because I use Mandriva Linux 2009.
There is a great tool called the mandriva control center.
> everything is available there, even a tool for setting up a web or ftp server.
The same is for Ubuntu, the same is for SuSE, the same is for Fedora/Red Hat.
And even OpenSolaris (that is not a Linux at all) allows do most customizations even without a control center due to higher level of automation (using nwam to connect to wifi networks is a dream!).
One should perform an extended search now to find a UNIX distro without a CC. Maybe QNX/Tron, but they are A LIIIITTLE SMALLE AND FASTER than all Windows including the oldest ones... :D
Now you are comparing a pre-installed windows with installation of Ubuntu from scratch.
If you computer comes with the OS pre-installed, the points you mentionend are not relevant anymore.
If the consumer wants to install an OS on his new computer, Ubuntu is far more convenient then windows. In Ubuntu you have an usable system in 2 minutes (booting the live system) and a fully usable system after one hour (installation). During this hour you can already do office / internet work.
If you are installing windows, you cannot use your system for hours: installation of the OS (3 times rebooting), installing drivers that are not provided, software that you need but is needs to be installed separately. A lot of actions requiring user intervention and rebooting
Well, then, it seems that you want to compare apples to elephants.
First of all, when INSTALLING Windows, even if it takes longer, it still works out of the box as good as or better than Linux. I've done it. Not with Vista or XP, but with Win98 and Win2k. Newer versions of Windows have, despite what Linux users who evidently haven't used them, gotten better at Plug-n-Play (a concept that Linux just doesn't understand) and overall hardware support (a concept that the Linux community sees fit to blame on biased hardware manufacturers instead of trying to improve it).
Second, and this is the big point, the majority of people don't ever install an OS. Ever. Windows comes pre-installed on the vast majority of computers out there. No install needed. No config needed. "It just works," just like Linux doesn't.
Don't get me wrong--I admire the spirit of the Linux community, and they've got a good product on their hands, but while it's faster and more secure than Windows, it is by no means more user-friendly. And in the war of mass appeal, what do you think wins--speed and security (which the average user never notices or understands beyond a vague concept of "God, my computer is slow") or user-friendliness?
That's not true guy.
If it was, nobody would use GNU/Linux (and many many people does).
My housemates installed Windows Vista on his desktop computer : and me and some guys were trying to get it work fine. There was no sound, and many other stuff from the motherboard weren't working.
So after some hours working on that computer, we tried to install Ubuntu. And EVERYTHING WORKED FINE ! We didn't have to do ANYTHING : it was JUST working FINE.
So you all say "yeaaah I tried it, it sucks, Windows works, Linux doesn't"... but you only tried it on YOUR computer.
Don't you people realise that very much things change between one computer and another ?
Think about it : last week I get TWO blue screen of the death. When was the last time you get one ? Many years ago I guess : still I AM HAVING BSOD. My computer is having BSOD. It HAPPENS. Not to everybody. But it does.
You have to understand that there is computer where Windows works better, and others where Linux works better than Windows.
You're all talking about Linux issues (which are not allways Linux's fault, like the lack of drivers) and forget every bloody issues Windows have (which are for the most Windows fault).
It's something that allways stun me. When we are talking about Windows and Linux, we have to begin in the state that Windows has nothing to prove and Linux everything to prove.
And that's not true. Because if Linux wasn't working better and easier to use on my computer, believe me I would not use it.
I saw some computers which just can't get Linux to work. But I've seen more computer where Linux works better than Windows.
That's it.
I didn't say no one ever installed an OS. I said the vast majority of users don't, which is the truth.
And fine, if you have issues with Windows, don't use it. The plain fact is that most computers come with Windows pre-installed and work, right out of the box. Sure, you might have issues with Windows if you install it yourself on hardware that isn't especially chosen or supported OEM. You're going to have the same problem with many computers on Linux. Why Windows wins is exactly because OEMs preinstall it and make it work with their hardware configurations, and most people are never going to go looking for a different OS--especially one that they will have to configure, like Linux. Many users have trouble finding their text documents where they've saved them and remembering their email passwords. Most have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE how to get a wireless card working if it doesn't "just work" for them automatically.
Linux works out of the box since kernel 2.x.y (~ 3-4 years). All peripherics are Plug'n'Play.
I use exclusively Linux since many years.
RedHat in 1987
Mandrake in 1989
SuSe in 1992
I Installed many flavours between 1992 and 2006 : Slackware, Yellow Dog, Shinux, Knoppix, Gentoo and so on...
Since 2006, I run definitively Debian : Under KDE for my wife's laptop and Gnome / XFCE for my computers.
All peripherics run well : Digital Camera, Webcam, Scanner, Laser Colour Printer, USB keys, and network management is much better under linux/unix.
Updates are made in "intelligent mode". Software dependances and choice for the user.
No virus, no BHO's, no Registery, no Defrag, no BSOD, Choices in Desktop and Windows Managers, Free Softwares Library, and many of theese softwares are pure jewels :
- The Gimp (replaces Photoshop and compatible)
- OpenOffice (replaces MS-Office and compatible)
- Sane (Scanner acquisition)
- Firefox, Epiphany (Web Browsers)
- Thunderbird, Balsa (e-mails)
- ...
Je suis beaucoup plus confiant dans Linux que dans les produits Microsoft.
Microsoft est lourd, pas trivial, pas sécurisé. Microsoft nous espionne et veut nous prendre notre argent.
Aujourd'hui, Linux est devenu très accessible, l'installation est plus aisée que celle de Windows. Il y a juste une courte période d'apprentissage et de prise en main. Ensuite, c'est le bonheur! On le fait évoluer à sa guise, les logiciels sont performants et gratuits. On se sent en sécurité avec le réseau, les spywares et les virus.
You say you started using Red Hat in 1987 and Mandrake in 1989.
What's the OS on your time machine? The Linux kernel didn't exist at all until 1991, and then v.1 of Red Hat came out in late 1994, and Mandrake wasn't released until 1998.
And if you meant 1997 and 1999, why did you place them before 1992, when you supposedly started using SUSE (released in 1994)?
I was running Slackware 2.3 with kernel 1.2.8 in 1995, RedHat desktop 3.0.3 in early 1996... so yup, the above references to 198x are clearly bull.
However, my nephew's desktop as of late dual-boots 32-bit Windows 7 and 64-bit Fedora 12 (after being Fedora-only since FC6); my sister doesn't want to know about Windows as "it's different" from what she's used to.
And for mail, browsing, printing, and playing PacMan on MAME or Frozen Bubble - no, there isn't any need for Windows indeed :)
Windows was installed in 45 minutes by my brother (no internet connection while installing "just in case"), then there were updates to drivers and reboots for about another 45 minutes.
Fedora 12 took 25 minutes enabling the updates repo, which means the system was updated during installation, not after that - only reboot was needed to remove the installation DVD :)
It took me an additional 15 minutes to:
- fix grub with the desired list of OS's
- enable rpmfusion/livna repositories
- install full mplayer and xine
- copy over user home dirs from F10
- install the beta 64-bit Flash plugin
Other than my laptops (yes, plural) I have a nettop Aspire Revo dedicated to bittorrent and DVD-burning (yay DIME,TTD et al), up since 18 days - which I plan to leave un-rebooted until it beats the 153-day uptime of the old K7-800 it replaced.
Record which was interrupted by some over-the-top cleaning maneuvers in the room, alas.
I think you don't really get it. The problem is not that linux still has work to do. The people who make devices has work to do: program decent drivers for inux. It's not harder to program than for Windows. MS does not do that, so why shold linux community have to do it? It's not a question that under linux things are morde "difficult", on the contrary, usually almost everything is much easier, not to mention better stability and security.
If any one of you know your Operating Systems you will notice right of that this is looking a very little like windows 7 and as for functionality well I say that none of you have any idea about software integration and how the Linux kernel works. Stop the Linux rot. I wish people would stop with their Oh Linux is easier to use than windows crap. Yes I as an avid user of all Linux system do find it easy to use but when update integration product availability and available compatible drivers are not available people generally do not wish to visit Linux forums and sites just for basic update or loaders to run other manufacturers software on their systems and the fact that the interface is open source what does that tell you. YES basically any noob can write code to make a Linux system vulnerable must tell you something that reason why?
Yes and if the entire planet was running Linux how would you feel for a massive exploit?
Like I said LOOKS ARE AND CAN BE DECEIVING. I like Linux just where it is not to big not too small. :-)
It depends. I've seen 30 FF to 59% IE, I've also seen 46% FF to 40% IE.
But most people use IE either because it's the default, because they don't know of FF, or because they're on a corporate, business or institution's network and can't install apps.
And so really, when people jump onto Linux and find there's a browser with all the common features they're used to (address bar, go, stop, forwards, back, refresh buttons, tabs) they really don't care, for the same reason they don't care about IE being the default on windows.
Couldn't agree with this comment more.
I think Linux and Ubuntu/KDE4 are great products and have some awesome potential for fast productivity, but as stated by Sean, the avg Joe Schmo user isn't going to want to have to DO anything to get their computer to do what they want it to - this is the whole reason why Mac has made so many inroads in the past decade across the general consumer market. People just want to be able to turn on their machine, open up their browser, watch their videos, listen to their music and then turn it off when they're done.
I'm fine with Linux's position in the market right now anyway as the people using it are those who WANT to use it, not forced to - this is a bit different to those who are forced to use Windows simply because it's the only platform that'll run what they want (more often than not) and don't get me wrong - my fav OS atm is Win7 - but if I could run the stuff I use most on Windows, in a Ubuntu box - I'd switch straight over simply due to the smaller footprint and stability.
You have heard of Wine, right?
And you are aware that the many users only use a browser and an email client, right?
KDE4 can run on Windows. windows.kde.org
Yes butt it sucks - less speed, less features.
Yes, but it doesn't quite have the integration needed. Even to be able to get KDE applications on Windows open files correctly in other non-KDE applications on Windows is hard for me. I'm a KDE user since 3.2 or so and Windows user long before being Linux user, though I'm not so "experienced" user in Windows as in Linux, but still more advanced than any average user I think.
I am going to run COD World at War on WINE...and have native drivers fro my 8800GT. Yeah, okay Linux fan boi.
Win XP is just fine thanks.
Nvidia actually has very good drivers for linux.
Also, COD 4 works with wine, and the only thing that doesn't work yet for COD 5 is the sound.
Oh, is that all that doesn't work? Well sound isn't important.
Yeah, you're right. Use that system good system from 2001. As a software developer myself I'd be horrified if my users would stick to ancient pieces of software instead of getting newer and clearly technologically far superior versions.
Vista might have some usability problems but other than that it's fine. And Windows 7 will be even better.
And hey -- the Linux fan boy is probably running a fairly recent and securely configured OS. :-P
New bells don't mean that the product is any better than previous ones.
As a software developer myself, I am horrified that you assume older software can't keep up (even perform better) than newer counterparts. You should know better than to assume that Microsoft or any COTS software developer has YOU in their best interests. They'll shove a lot of bloated and often ignored features into the product to justify your upgrade, but are any of these features really making your computer life significantly easier?
If Microsoft sold yearly updates to 2k or XP for driver / core OS library support, I'd probably pay for it, but there's no incentive to pay > 1/2 the price of a PC for an inferior (for my purposes) piece of crap like Vista/7. Looks like Linux it is for any future desktops. Plus, I get the benefit of getting it free.
see, the problem is that people want to use their computers. Thus, and OS with usability problems = fail. Which is why anyone wanting to use their machine sticks with XP.
He.. the usability argument is actually what switches most people over to Linux. Most people I know actually want to use their computer to get work done.. that leaves them with two options.. shell out lots of cash and get a Mac.. or install Ubuntu or the likes.
My system which is quite powerful can't run for more than 26minutes on XP playing COD4... however i can play as long as I want on Vista or windows 7 beta no problems.... So you like XP's Blue screen, I found that the drivers vista / 7 use are a double driver, a low level driver (windows default) and a second optimized driver over the top, NVidia in my case. i might get a slightly lower frame rate but who can see the difference in 75 fps and 70 fps on a system that doesn't crash.
Uh, backwards compatibility is important, chump. You must be one of those space-cadet developers..no offense!
Okay, maybe Windows XP is ancient. But you know what, it works! Why change something if it isn't broken....
Honestly, what can Vista do that you can't do in XP? I mean it's got nicer graphics and all... but is there anything really innovative in it?
So as a software developer you only care what the latest OS is rather than the one actually in use? Sounds a little naive to me.
So what kind of software developer are you? My guess:
Visual Basic. If so, please don't refer to yourself as a software developer.
Yeah, Linux is outdated b/c it does not come with a Visual Basic compiler, right?
If you can come up with reasonable arguments - I doubt it that you can - , I might reconsider calling you a fanboyish flamer.
Agreed. VB drives me crazy! Ugh...
You're calling Vista "technologically far superior" just because they built the same rubbish from scratch, chewed resources like a goat, added some eyecandy, asked you about every stupid little thing (even changing the clock: "clock.cpl has attempted to change system settings") and gives you stacks of BSODs untill you install stacks of patches or a service pack?
Every technologically savvy person I know in their right mind has been recommending people to stick to XP till 7 comes out.
One of my friends got 40 different BSODs on his new Vista system when it first came out... (caused by everthing from his GPU to flashdrives and printers). You call that "superior"?
Have you tried? Cuz, uh, it would work. Boi.
So ... uhm, you haven't upgraded to Vista yet? Why not? ... Because of the supremely stable OS? Or the superior security model? Or maybe because you don't want to buy a quad processor and 4 Gigs of ram to be able to run a web browser?
Just curious.
I run vista ultimate on a pentium D with 2gb of ram and a 320gb hdd. I've not had any problems running my browser, trillian and burning DVDs at the same time. Way to ride the media bandwagon there chump.
'pentium D with 2gb of ram and a 320gb hdd'
I have a Via C3 533Mhz, 128Mhz Ram, 4Go Compact Flash.
fanless, noiseless, energyless (40W+15w for the monitor) computer with xubuntu.
(XP can't run with this computer, and vista too, of course)
I surf many hours a day without pb.
If you like noise and electric bill, for surfing or watch a film (DVD and streaming), it's your choice ^^
Well actually its because of the stupid security model (are you sure, are you really sure, well, hmm, I don't know, are you sure you're sure? Sorry, even though you're an admin, you're not REALLY an admin, so forget it, I won't let you).
Stable? Yeah already been hacked just as much as any other Micro-shyt OS.
And all that wonderful compatibility. All the really odd little important things to people won't work on it - guess what! Buy all new software versions because Micro-shyt didn't test it out before shoving it down your throat.
if you insist on using winblows, you can at least dual-boot it. i mean it is free...
I'm dual-booting right now (Vista and Ubuntu) because I want to try Linux. I'll admit Ubuntu is faster on my system (AMD64 Athlon X2 @ 1.8 GHz, 1GB RAM) than Vista is, but it also doesn't support my printer, at all. And KDE 4 is a joke. Sure, it's pretty (like Vista, like Win7), but if you want to talk about usability issues, KDE 4 is not your winning argument. Gnome, sure--but you sacrifice prettiness. The thing is that I want to like KDE 4; it's beautiful, the menus are laid out logically, etc... it's just unstable.
But your comment is ridiculous. People "insist" on using Windows because it works for them. I'm all for FOSS--I'd switch to Linux for good and never look back if I could, but right now, I can't. Windows simply works better for me, even though it's slower, and no amount of berating me, telling me to get over shitty hardware support, buy a new printer, etc, is going to change my mind. End of story. I will continue to dual-boot Ubuntu but mainly to play around with it... if the day comes when it works better for me than Windows, I'm there. But until then, Windows is my choice, because it works for me.
If you go to the nvidia website you'll see that the drivers for linux and windows are always at the same version (having the same functionality and supporting the same cards).
I know that wine isn't a perfect solution, but the games that DO work usually work better than in windows. And for the most current games it usually takes the devs a couple of weeks to get them work (if the games are well written). A lot of games work out-of-the-box with wine on release date.
Also more and more game developers are releasing binaries for their games that allow them to run natively in Linux because the realized there IS a market.
If you like what you have, stick with it. But don't spread nonsense about things you have no clue about ;)
Actually, nVidia puts out native drivers for most flavours of Linux. I'm with you on Windows being simpler than most people, but that doesn't excuse ignorance.
Wow, did you not know there have been native drivers FROM Nvidia for years now?
What color is the moss on the rock that you live under anyway?
Wine recently followed up one of my bug reports, filed in 2005. I'm aware of wine, I'm aware that it doesn't work; I'm aware that many linux supporters say that it does and I'm aware that after trying it again at their behest, it still didn't work. So no, that's not a solution.
I get all sorts of win32 programs, anything from a standard app to hacked-up versions that have been copied around, and I chuck them in wine and they usually work fine first go. If not, then I just run them a second time and they're usually fine. And, my Ubuntu install is about 14 months BEHIND! So I wonder what'll happen when I get around upgrading to the latest version...
Wine is still a joke, until it can work with mono to support .net apps that are not fully supported by mono (eg because of p/invoke calls) then its next to useless.
Heh.. You do realize that if you built your apps right (= cross-platform) to begin with, you wouldn't have to worry about using wine or similar solutions.
If you choose to write software for windows, don't be surprised when it doesn't work on anything else but that flavor of Windows you wrote it for.
Wine is excellent software. And you can keep mono and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. We're better off without the likes of Mono, Moonlight and Miguel de Icaza.
It won't run any of the millions of windoze virus' either.
It is actually possible to run a few windows virus on wine. Last week there was some guy who took 5 virus and run them on wine (just ggl it). But sadly enough, the highest threat of those virus was annoying you.
So if you run a windows emulator on linux you can get a virus...
Damn i better switch back to windows.
running a windows virus in linux doesn't break anything.. it is just fun (or annoying) to watch.. when you're done you just close the emulator (simply said).
So, is WINE really an emulator? Yeah, its name is Wine Is Not an Emulator, but that really doesn't quarantee that it actually isn't, does it? But, is an application that implements the Windows API so that Windows applications can run natively and on about the same speed on Linux and other OSes WINE supports, really an emulator?
Wine Is Not an Emulator because it doesn't emulate an entire system (ie: a typical emulator emulates the hardware, bios, HD, etc. and lets you run a whole OS on there, ie runing windows in a "box", pre se). Wine is simply a compatibility layer that can execute win32 code.
And another thing is that in wine the windows apps run in sort-of like "sandboxes". So in the case of a virus, they can read the rest of your harddisk, but they won't be able to do anything useful to it. They can interface with your system (sound, etc.) but they effectively run in their own little sub-environment.
I am well and truly sick and tired of idiots like you who posture, repeating verbatim the well worn "won't run any of your sh*t" line even though it simply is not true, and has not been true for years now.
Get a life.
hahahahahahah
this is great stuff
I wan't to know too... did you tell them it was actually Linux/KDE?
Personally I think you did learn a few things...
1. The average person on the street knows very little about technology.
2. Average users really don't want to learn how to use thier current OS
3. Really beleive the hype
4. Cover switch is really cool. That seems to be the only thing they were reacting to. How come you didn't show them The Cube? That'd have clinched it.
Cute video, but pretty superficial. And kind of meaningless without getting their reactions to finding out it's not Windows.
I also saw a demo where a vista system with a new desktop wallpaper and some widgts was shown to a test group of users and told it was a Windows 7 prototype. Most people said it was faster and easier to use than Vista.
A lot of Vistas problem was it was new, and got bagged by the press early on. It runs fine, just like any other windows OS, once you have the right drivers and AV software up and installed. However I just ike the out of the box juts works nature of my Linux boxes 8)
That video was made by MS. It was called Windows Mojave or something. You're taking marketing materials for factual research?
So good, I can't add my own.
People seemed impressed with the look of it, but you can draw your own conclusion from that.
Not that I've used KDE 4.2 or win7 myself...
That was a great video!
Thanks for making it.
Why didn't you use Amarok 2 instead of Amarok 1.x?
And why didn't you tell the people in the end that it was KDE 4?
Otherwise great video ;)
"Why didn't you use Amarok 2"
Maybe because it is ugly?
I also don't use Amarok 2, because of it's ugliness and disabled versatility. KDE went the wrong way, they did something that GNOME team doe's for some time... And that's bad, actualy very bad.
Amarok2 isnt a part of KDE, it's just an application that runs off kdelibs. And although it is one of the most important ones, and perhaps encompasses some of the same developers, it's important to distinguish it from the actual KDE desktop environment.
And uh it's not so ugly..
KDE4 is work codename of Win7 from Microsoft.
jokes aside, I so far like KDE3.5 much more then 4.2. I mean except visual bling in 4.2 everything else look to be unfinished, broken or non existent, but especially cluttering way to get things done. Unless you want to scale and rotate some plasmoid at your desktop, I bet at that part 4.2 is much much better then 3.5. But that somehow doesn't impress me.
If you have to ask what KDE 4 is, then you are not a Linux user. KDE 4 is the latest desktop environment for Linux from the K Development Team. What's even more amazing, is that KDE 4.2 is still beta software, and it works better and faster than Windows 7.
Windows 7 (I've used the beta), to me, looks like KDE that's poorly implemented. It has the look (albeit a bad look) and feel (but not as configurable) as KDE. Any Windows user would be amazed at just how easily KDE can be configured.
It looks like MS has stolen another idea (but isn't that their business model?) and implemented it poorly. A while back, lots of MS folks were crowded around the KDE booth at a Linux software show. Looks like they got what they were after ... although, anyone can, since it's free and open source ... unlike MS's software.
[quote] that KDE 4.2 is still beta software, and it works better and faster than Windows 7. [/quote]
Wow.. KDE... but forget it. KDE resulted in several kernel panics over here. Far from stable and very bloated. Please let us fix KDE 3.5 first. KDE 4 is hopeless and you better choose gnome
I have only KDE on my computer, and i don't get Kernel Panics... It is very stable... (I'm using OpenSUSE 11.1 + KDE 4.2)
...that little "here" in your comment, means that *you* are fuckin' stupid.
Acting as if KDE 3.5 would need any fixing before it needs use is just plain retarded. And you know that. But you've got no other argument, so you took it...
KDE 4 runs like a charm here too.
And even if it contains far too much of that Gnome "a retarded user could possibly misunderstand this function, so we give you no option or function at all" philosophidiocy. But for the average Joe. who thinks he can expect to operate a system that is more complex than anything else he will ever control, to be usable without any training or license whatsoever (and who therefore should no be allowed to touch a computer), KDE 4 is the best thing he can put on his computer.
Wow. Really?? KDE runs in userspace, not kernel space. The kernel is designed such that userspace apps CANNOT cause kernel panics, unless there is some kernel bug. If you're getting kernel panics you probably need to update your kernel. But actually, you should probably forget KDE, Gnome, and Windows, and upgrade to the VTech desktop. It'd probably work better for you.
As has been noted, KDE should not be able to cause a kernel panic. No userspace program should be able to. I see 3 possibilities, kernel bug, video driver bug (nVidia and ATI blob drivers will do this) or a hardware problem.
A kernel panic is the fault of the kernel or most likely bad (or overclocked) hardware, KDE may stress your system in a way that reveals this problem. Try checking your system with gimps mprime and memtest86+.
Also regarding bloat, KDE uses a lot of 3rd party libraries instead of re-inventing the wheel, I don't see how you could call that bloat if there are several other pieces of software on your system that use these libraries.
The problem has to do with the Nvidia driver. KDE4 uses QT4 which (for a while there) didn't get along very well with Nvidia's proprietary binary kernel driver. The latest drivers fix the problem so the point is moot now.
For reference, the problem never occurred on the open-source Nvidia driver.
-Riskable
http://riskable.com
Uh, yeah right. You've got some bad hardware or somethign
KDE4 4.2 is out of beta.
"If you have to ask what KDE 4 is, then you are not a Linux user."
This is what turns people off about the Linux community. No **** he isn't a Linux user...
And by the way, isn't Windows 7 "still beta software" as well? I know the public beta period has ended, but there's no final release yet either.
KDE 7 is one of Linux's desktops environments (a set of applications among a few other things).
It's like a layer over the main Operating System which provides some resources to the user.
In Windows, it's bundled with the system, but it would be the set of Windows Explorer, IE, WMP, etc.
did you really just say KDE 7???
you either very stupid or a troll...in either case a technical discussion is the last place you belong.
Or maybe it was an innocent typo and you are far too sensitive/fragile to be let out of your padded room. Back in the box!
Linux needs clever ads like this.
Show how slick it is to regular people, don't confuse them with all the Linux vs Windows stuff.
Yeah, and then they can plug a printer into it and...
...wait, better find a printer that works with Linux first.
Oh I know! They could sync an iPhone with it!
Hmm... better jailbreak it first...
Damn, I'm just no good at this.
yeah is that the fault of any linux distro??? or the blind sightedness of the proprietary manufacturer????
in this case apple ???? but the same can be said with any hardware manufacturer that owes it alegence to the big players like microsoft or apple ?
next question is there a space for free anything in a commercial world ???
ever notice how you guys just tricked people, and this really doesn't prove anything? first off, KDE4 looks a hell of a lot more like vista than it does Win7. Second, every one of those people would be disappointed as soon as they find out they can't run any of the programs they used to.
What programs? Everyone always says this, but I don't get it. What software is it you think all these average computer users have that they'll really miss on Linux? The only software I think most of my friends would miss is iTunes. Even Office, you can use OO.org, KOffice, or MS Office with Wine (or CrossOver). Seriously, if your average person can play MP3s, browse the web, play Sudoku, and type up a document, they'll be happy. These are all things most distros do out of the box.
Using wine (or any of its many flavors) isn't anywhere near as "out of the box" as people make it out to be. Sometimes you can spend hours getting it to work just to find that it doesn't currently "fully support" whatever program you are trying to use it with (games are notorious for this). At the end of the night you end up with a pissed off frustrated user who doesn't give a damn if it was free because it just cost him TIME which is far more valuable than whatever open source / closed source pissing match you have against microsoft. The end fact is that while windows might not run benchmarks as well as linux it has something linux doesn't: ease of use. Lets run a benchmark on how long it takes to get linux to run all the business and home software windows does. Oh wait, that would be NEVER because linux CAN'T DO IT.
Have you used wine in the last 50 years? If you spent hours configuring it you were doing something wrong
What you describe as "Linux can't" is simply the (sad) fact that a lot of software people are used to are not available as _native_ Linux application.
But _if_ you have a Linux app, it's much easier and faster (ever used an MSI package?) to install and run it.
And "ease of use" ... come on.
Ease of use comes mainly from applications. There are good and bad applications on all platforms.
I haven't yet found the ideal photo editing solution for KDE 4.2. On Windows, I've got Canon's DPP for extremely efficient RAW editing. It's not perfect, but the proprietary software is the best I've found for Windows (not sure I gave Lightroom a fair chance though).
So far I haven't found a seamless option or series of programs for RAW editing, although they're getting there. Digikam doesn't work with 4.2 - it's useful even though it doesn't edit RAW.
RAW formats are nothing special, if your camera could save to PNG or GIFF, they would retian your precious pictures as well. Moreover, there is lots of photo software for GNU/Linux (KDE is only a Window manger, Linux is only kernel, GNU/Linux is an OS.
http://www.linux.com/articles/56128
GNU userland+Linux kernel = Linux
GNU userland+FreeBSD kernel = FreeBSD
GNU userland+OpenSolaris kernel=OpenSolaris
GNU userland+NT 6.1 kernel = Windows 7
GNU userland+GNU Hurd kernel = GNU
Actually, digikam does work with KDE 4.2. Albeit, you might have to compile from source. But I have it installed.
Gimp has a RAW plugin, it's called, UFRaw. I have it installed on Puppy Linux, SuSE and Windows and it works beautifully.
For my purposes, I find Lightzone (from Lightcrafts) and BibblePro (BibbleLabs) are both excellent at editing my RAW files. Both programs support a wide range of RAW formats. I use a Pentax K100D,
Both of these programs are commercial, and offer Windows, Mac and Linux versions. In fact, when BibbleLabs sell you a license, you are allowed to install and run a BibblePro on you Windows, Mac AND Linux machines. BibblePro runs well on my two year old Core Solo laptop, and runs faster in Linux than it does on Windows. LightZone benefits from a more powerful machine. A very old version of LightZone for Linux was released 'for free', but is difficult to source!
I prefer LightZone for landscape/flower photography (vkelim.smugmug.com), and BibblePro for portraits. However, my results no doubt reflect my very elementary level of skill at using the two products.
Most PC games are windows only. And that's what most people use @ home.
google + "wine compatibility" = http://appdb.winehq.org/
I for one have found that many of the games I play actually run faster in linux than they do in vista (WoW included). Not to mention that some games include Linux versions. Doom3, Quake 4, and Unreal Tournament all have Linux installers.
I gave up on PC gaming as the rig had to be soo expensive compared to what I needed for work. An XBox is only $NZ 500-600, and a PS3 id ony just under $NZ800, and that is the cost of a pair of ATI cards for gaming, then there is the world of - "Well it works OK, then I installed this other game that updated something, then the other games just crash now, or my work apps now don't (work that is)
well, if they have to jump through the hoops to configure wine in order to get something working, anything, then that is something that does nto work. It is not acceptable to have to go through that just to run a game. As for C/O office, why should I pay extra for software to let me run my software. OO is fine, if that is all you user personally at home, but if you are getting lots of files from corporate and they are all word format, sooner or later, something is gonna screw up, its inevitable. Its not a matter of what can be "made" to work under linux, its what works out of the box. If you are tech savvy, you see your computer as a tooth that you need training to effectively use, and that might be right, for you, but for the average Joe, the computer is a toaster, a vcr, an appliance, and that is how it needs to work. You get a box with windows pre-installed, and it works, browse, email, music, etc, it works.
Not sure what distro you use, but with Ubuntu 8.04 I didn't have to jump through any hoops. Unless you count putting the install CD in the CD drive...
no jumping thru hoops, no configuration of wine, nothing to go thru to run an application in wine.
opensuse 11.1 + wine + microsoft office, trivia machine, autocad 2007, wolfenstein enemy territory = awesome.
Just right clicked the install file and ran with wine. Throws an icon on your desktop and away you go.
Next I will install dreamweaver cs3 and Photoshop.
I need win32 codecs? I go to the suse website and hit 'one click install' and boom I got movies on all formats running.
Its as easy on windows as is on suse. I like them both but prefer suse because I don't have to worry about security anywhere near as much as windows. I have friends who are 40+ yrs, 50+ yrs and I have installed suse on their systems. Guess what. They don't care what it is as long as the problems stop and they can get about their stuff - surf, email, chat, write.
Want to play games you like - you can. If you don't LIKE linux for some reason then THAT is why you don't prefer it. Not for anything that I mentioned.
Most people who have a problem with linux are too used to the windows world. good luck to you and I hope you have a nice life but stop bitching about what you don't like and basing it on some technicality. Thats just garbage.
-- garbage in, garbage out!
...until it crashes, bugs out, needs to be restarted for a minor software install, blue screens, gets a virus, gets overloaded with spyware, slows down from fragmentation, or abruptly stops working to ask if you are sure you want it to continue working.
As for OO, I do use it in a cross-platform business environment, and we have never had a document compatibility issue.
But that isn't how people think. People **think** they have to run Windows. People **think** if they don't they won't be able to use email or Facebook (or whatever).
I've just come back from seeing a client, and he can't tell what's Windows and what's Office (the distinction is totally beyond him). How often have you asked: "What version of Office are you running?" and been given the name of the Windows version they are running (or vice versa)?
Seriously there are a hell of a lot of totally clueless users out there, and they have a really warped sense of reality. They honestly believe Macs can't send email to Windows, Linux is some cheap rip-off of Windows and if you're not running Windows you can't use Facebook. (Or similar crazy stuff)
The fact is they know the name "Windows", "Microsoft", "Office", "XP" and "Vista" - anything else they simply stop listening.
For a hell of a lot of people Linux or Mac would be much better choices. But they can't accept that, their thinking is this: "If they are so good why does everyone else run Windows?"
I have found, especially with home users, that the more clueless the user the better they take to Linux (esp. Ubuntu).
Clueless users just want: web, email & office. The smarter ones want their iplod and/or digitial camera connected.
Linux runs well on older hardware, almost never breaks and does not get borked by windows virus and malware. A great choice for clueless home users I think.
I agree, although I see three groups. There are the people who just want e-mail/word processing/web browsing to work, and all they need is you to install Linux for them, and spend a few minutes, and they're fine; they only do superficial things, which aren't enough to break anything. I know a few people in this category. I've gotten maybe five calls between all of them, and they were all fairly easy to resolve. Then there are the technical users, who learn things, break things, figure out how to fix them, and don't break them again. Linux is also suited for them. The people that aren't suited for it are those that know enough to get themselves into trouble, but don't know/care enough to learn what it takes to get them out of trouble.
The vast majority of 'consumer' digital cameras work right out of the box in Linux (any mainstream distro) .. and I've been told that the iplod is well supported by a package called 'gtkpod' or something. I wouldn't know, I buy cheap generic chinese players and they all plug straight into Linux and sync with rhythmbox.
I gather things aren't so rosy if you have a zune, but then anyone who bought a zune is probably also a member of the Steve Ballmer fanclub and wouldn't be runing linux anyhow.
KDE isn't an operating system. Yes, KDE is usually used on Linux. But you can also use it on Windows. Or on a Mac.
how could you not ask "and what if i told you this was actually just free software and you could go download it now for free?"
but it fun little experiment :) thanks!
I think it would be hilarious if you told them it was Linux instead of Windows 7, maybe you would get this sort of reaction: http://www.hulu.com/watch/4154/saturday-night-live-schillervision-hidden-camera ...
Great work. I heard the it at [millionaire friends. com], where celebrities, pro athletes and wealthy singles mingle. Many people are talking about it there. ...
could you make that a hyperlink? I sure am interested in meeting celebrities, pro athletes and wealthy singles shooting the breeze about KDE 4.
wow, you found a bunch of idiots who don't know what they're talking about
:(
found a bunch of idiots? Most computer users don't know what they're talking about. Even many pro developer does not know about Linux vs Ubuntu. And still they are talking about it.
This is great material to show that people does not care what OS you are running, important is just that the desktop environment is easy.
You are kidding right? Ubuntu was formed off the debian unstable branch... debian is a flavor of linux, thus Ubuntu is also a flavor of linux. So is it the pro dev's that don't know what they are talking about or you?
I think you might be the one that didn't understand. If someone is talking about Linux vs. Ubuntu - then they don't understand the difference - which is what I think the point was.
Of course now we know that you know that Ubuntu is a "distro" and Linux is the kernel - but you knew you were smart before you told us you were didn't you?
If you can't understand THAT distinction, then you are the one with issues. Ubuntu is a subset of linux (ubuntu itself consists of different releases, both in version number, and bundled desktop environment).
It's sort of like the difference between "fruit" and "apple". So, in essence, the original comment was reasonable. Yours, however, was needlessly snide. A category is NOT the same thing as an item inside that category.
The OP stated "Even many pro developer does not know about Linux vs Ubuntu" - which was the point - they are talking about two different things and they don't know about them.
ubuntu is not linux. it is a collection of multitudes of software, ONE of which is the linux kernel. it is like a puzzle and linux is just one piece.
No, Ubuntu is not a subset of Linux. Linux is a subset of every distribution. Linux is a small piece of any distribution. It is the kernel and modules. The kernel and modules are a subset of something like Ubuntu, Debian, Redhat, etc.
Stop acting like you know it all.
Apparently you don't know what the word "subset" means. Go find a dictionary.
Ubuntu is a "subset" of Linux in the sense that "Linux" is generally used to refer to all distributions which include the Linux kernel. The kernel is not a "subset" of anything.
In case no one has noticed, for a split-second there you get a wonderful glimpse at one nasty lingering issue with Linux: Video drivers suck. Look at the garbled texture of the window before it updates, it's just a taste of what awaits you if you are 'unfortunate' enough to have an ATI or even nVidia card. Garbled textures, programs using 3D acceleration that run at, hummm, 1 frame per second or so, or don't run at all, but yeah, you can get the glitzy effects! (I bet on that machine Compiz is doing indirect rendering, wohoo!)
Oh, and if you have this problem, good luck solving it, it's been around in different forms for years and no amount of tweaking with your configuration files will remove it... I bet Windows 7 doesn't do that... oh! and 3D graphics performance on Linux?? laughable...
(yeah, I know, it's ATI and nVidia who are evil and don't release decent drivers for Linux, neither do they publish their card architectures for others to write a good driver, it sucks nonetheless).
It's the window open/closing effect... it's the contents of the window being swirled around...
Get your facts straight Windows Boy....
you are wrong. that is very clearly not a defect but a completely unintentional graphics defect.
I get the same thing on my machine. Its annoying
It's not an effect at all. The contents of the window are NOT being "swirled around," they're being garbled. Try as you might, you can't polish that turd.
it was a demonstration of KDE, compiz is not related.
personally i never understood why people want effects on their desktop. they are too distracting.
...I've had my share of it... Yes, the current state of ATI and NVidia drivers on Linux is not good, however, ATI does seem to be turning around, at least. Actually, if you have an older computer, your best bet would be to find an older (but good in its time) ATI card, since they've had plenty of time to stabilize. As for newer ones, well... ATI is releasing their specs, so we can hope for better things to come. As for Brian's comment, you can run Compiz on KDE (although he is right in that this demo wasn't using it). In regards to the effects - yes, a lot are annoying, but I've also heard very positive things about its accessibility features, from those that have need of them. And besides, let's face it - even though aesthetics should be secondary, most people care about it; if Vista/Win7 can do it, and Linux can't (hypothetically), a lot of people are going to be turned off. (Yes, it's a stupid reason, but it is true).
Guys, go read arstechnica. They've tried KDE 4.2 on Windows XP.
Yup, KDE team is working a Windows version of KDE 4.2.
Its still in heavy development at the moment, but soon, you'll be able to replace your Explorer shell with KDE 4.2 (with all it goodies and great Plasma).
And, of course, you can still run your everyday software.
Man...i love opensource, and KDE too
Those of you claiming they can't run their windows sh*t. Come on please, most of those people were not advanced users or gamers. They have perhaps 1/2 dozens tasks:
1. Browse the Internet
2. Watch youtube or perhaps hula.
3. Read their email
4. Use the occasion spreadsheet or word processor.
5. Maybe Skype their kids
6. Listen to some tunes.
All this can be done with Linux.
7. Quicktax (or quicken...) :)
don't think that runs on linux or wine AT ALL ^.^
ohwell, guess we can do all those taxes by
hand...
That's linux working for you right there :P
We are best to look at what windows can't do
1) Advance MultiMedia Editing (except midi?)
2) Taxes
3) no photoshop :( (Gimp can only go so far)
4) Handful of good free software (and even than
far less that can really compare to commericaly
available software)
5) User Friendliness (I like to compare it to
Windows Mistake Edition... It's easy to use
within its own little world, but decide to do
anything past simplicity, and you'll have to
jump through hoops.
Windows (and Mac) are just far simplier to use
for both simple, and advance tasks compared
to Linux. Linux does have some nice
possibilities for server tasks, where user
friendliness can be somewhat ignored, but
Windows (and Mac) still are top in the market
because well... They just work, and people
like that
The Asus EEE experiment with Linux OS's
just failed (find the article with 4x return rates
of Linux based Asus EEE's vs Windows XP
EEE's) Even though the XP installed EEE costs
more, and is generaly slower on the hardware,
the AVERAGE user can't seem to use Linux
effectivly for their Email/Browsing/Watching
Youtube videos (The tasks you say most
average people use, on a computer built
specificly for those tasks) and rather
perfer Windows XP...
What am I saying... Well, for all those linux
zealots, Linux isn't for the average person, it
never will be (which Linus has said himself.)
KDE 4.x is for those that perfer to break free from
the simplicity, ease of use, and stability
of Windows, for an unstable, Vista like Bloated
KDE 4.x (<3 Debian), or those that just
can't stand the downtime that a Windows
2003 server brings (that and Windows NT
kernal just dosen't bring justice for the
server market).
Just my 2 cents.
1) advance multimedia editing : Well I dont know how advance you wanna be but there is kino...blender...not sure about the sound stuff, I am sure there are solutions
2) ok maybe
3) CS2 works perfectly on Wine
4) I think the offer is increasing, I havent had any big issue there
5) I think linux is getting there
ASUS return rate : it's 4times windows but that s still pretty low
PS : That website is buggy, I dont like to type on white over white
Also instead of Photoshop you could use Cinepaint, which is like a professional quality GIMP (it's still free)
And I think that linux is perfectly user friendly, I just installed Linux Mint on my Uncles computer (he's not good with computers) and there has been yet to be something that he's complained about (unlike with windows.)
FYI, it was determined that Linux on EEe failed because users didn't know what they were getting. They assumed it would be just like Windows, but cheaper. They expected their menus and desktops to behave and be organised a certain way and those expectations lead to disappointment. Linux does things differently than Windows. Mac OS X is a similar story. Mac stores see similar return rates from first time Mac OS users who buy the products for aesthetic appeal and are disappointed by expectations. The number one complaint of first time Mac OS X users is they can't figure out where their programs are.
I say give this to them when they go and grab their copy of quicken, or when their kid goes to install a game they bought and realize everything hey have is for windows then I bet they will pay more attention to what they are using.
Definitely looks good on the demo, but for day2day use, its still nowhere near windows, be it XP or Vista. I hope linux catches up soon.
Say what? Millions of people have been using it happily for years?
Personally, I have been using it as my main OS since 2001, and more than a couple of hours forced to a windows-machine makes my blood-pressure actually raise to hurtful levels. (Yes it is medically confirmed after I suspected heart-problems) There are a few odds and ends with Linux that pisses me off, but there are a LOT of really frustrating things in Windows (and MacOSX for that matter) that actually drive me to crazy.
I guess the difference between me and the people who considers Linux "not for day2day" is what we've gotten used to, and possibly differing requirements.
I.E. I spend a lot of time testing open-source software and doing various development, but not a lot of time playing the newest top-shelf games.
If you have no preconceptions about what your OS should be like, and you don't need to play all the top-shelf commercial games, Linux are probably just as good as windows for day2day, maybe even better due to better performance and no viruses. Linux is much like MacOSX in that respect, without the consistently looking bling and the pricetag.
I'm using OpenSUSE Linux for about 6 years, i'm 21 years old, i play my Windows games under Wine (and i didn't made configurations)... If it's not for daily use i'm very strange
So THAT'S where all the British people have gone!
most people can't make an factual opinion due to not having the time nor the access to different options.
so they make an opinion based on what they are told. this is the reason marketing is about telling what can seem plausible, not about telling the truth.
the video is exactly the end result. people not really knowing but assuming.
whether its KDE or windows 7 its irrelevant as most people didn't interact with any of them.
http://design-to-last.com
Software don't matter. All users do is four to six tasks at most. Wine fixes everything.
Right.
When Linux gets blinkered, is there another Linux user anywhere near that can console them?
Nope.
KDE has problems. More so than Vista.
Much more.
"KDE has problems. More so than Vista. "
KDE hasn't suffered from a nation-wide class action lawsuit involving disclosed emails from every major computer manufacturer and more negative publicity than MS has every had.
Also, take a look at how many companies are moving to Linux instead of "upgrading" to Vista.
"When Linux gets blinkered, is there another Linux user anywhere near that can console them? "
Practically every distro, even the small ones, have an IRC channel and a forum where you can get support. In most cases you can talk directly on IRC to one of the distro's devs or at least some real guru's that use it. Try to get support from one of the MS guys instead of some help desk bimbo that only knows how to say "have you tried rebooting?" - if you can get through to anybody at all - and don't forget to have a credit card ready.
GNU/Linux is all about community and that community is very supporting. If you haven't worked that out them you simply haven't grasped the basic concept underlying it all. It's about people doing it for themselves and helping out others that also don't want to be mindless consumers and slaves to greedy corporate overlords.
...you'd better already know the answer to your question. Many of the people in the channel do know the answer, but good luck getting one of them to tell you instead of acting like you're a tool for not knowing what you're doing.
They might be more apt to respect you if you're facing a complicated problem that THEY have run into, but for new users unfamiliar with Linux, and for the average computer user who doesn't know much about any OS, the guys in the IRC channel will either ignore them or speak Linux to them, which helps them not at all.
Keep in mind that until the Linux kernel and the multitude of desktop environments get MAJOR commercial software and hardware support Linux will gain no ground towards getting the people like in the video to use it.
It is doubtful that any of them would enjoy trying to figure out WINE, video card configurations, compiz fusion configs, terminal commands and permissions. They'd screw something up almost immediately and not want to bother with researching a solution. I had a hell of a time getting a simple usb flash drive to play nice with Linux and XP a while back. Who, when productivity matters, wants to waste time and money messing around with trivial matters like that?
Linux is and always will be a niche market for tweakers and wireheads, and special custom applications. However if brought into schools and universities, and pumped vast amounts of money into the governments on a grand scale and merely saturated the system with it then things may change.
Mac & Windows are big fat pigs compared to Linux. When and if Linux pulls some serious commercial/consumer grade software and hardware it too will be a pig.
I enjoy tinkering with linux and it's many faces but when I need to do some serious photo editing and printing I have to switch over to XP because there is no guessing. I know it works.
The only way this video could have made any point would have been to let the people click around while the hosts were timing them to see how long it would take an average windows user to either screw something up or run into a brick wall. Granted it would have put KDE 4 in a bad light it would have shown that KDE 4 AND Linux still have a long road ahead.
Thanks for bringing the "Linux is for teh l33t geeks" BS.
My folks are both in their seventies and are using Linux. Dad was converted after using free/libre software like OpenOffice, VLC, Firefox browser, Thunderbird email client and Skype (which is also available on Linux) on XP for years, so the switch was easy.
My mom used a computer for the first time last year, PCLinuxOS w/ KDE3.5 and she knows how to install games.
I also work with some students to take old computers (P2, P3s) which we fix up and add lighweight Linux distros and then give out to youth centres and women;s shelters and so on.
Righ now were in the middle of installing 20 refurbished computers for a retirement home and the first 10 we installed 3 weeks ago are a total hit.
yes, retired people, most who have never used a computer now have their own Gmail accounts and are communicating like they never could before.
Oh, guess what? Apart from a few tweaks (they reaaaaaally appreciate Zoom option on KDE), no crashes, no virus, no problems.
It just works.
So please leave the old 'learning curve' canulars to die their peaceful death. It isnt harder to learn than the other two.
I showed Ubuntu with gnome desktop and compiz fusion (which ran ootb after checking a "install nvidia driver" box in the ubuntu gui)
He likes the zoom option cause like most old people he doesn't see as good anymore, especially little leters in most texts on the web
he also liked the popups when he was putting in some SD Card from his camera.
I think as long as you are no (used to windows) power user linux is perfect for you.
The only bad thing is that ALL of the computer coursees here are about windows. and if you take linux courses it's more like for admins and stuff.
there are simply no courses for the "normal user" and thats an issue Linux enthusiasts should face.
another problem is commercial software support. That is a problem which should solve itself if we can convince enough users to use linux because then there will be commercial software for linux.
and if you look at freeware and stuff there is a lot of software cross plattform. more than there was ever before.
so tell your users to at least try the alternative and don't scare them with terminal windows and stuff :D
if you let them figure out by themselves they will get used to it and not run away.
We are in the situation that we need to get the "trademark Windows" out of the heads of people allready "infected" by Microsoft software so even they will look for alternatives and try out something different.
So i'll finish with Apples:
"Think different" :D
"until the Linux kernel"
LINUX IS THE KERNEL, JACKASS!
Every OS has a kernel...linux's is known as the linux kernel.
>>It is doubtful that any of them would enjoy trying >>to figure out WINE, video card configurations, compiz fusion configs, terminal commands and permissions.
After getting a fully loaded OS (linux) with the shiny desktop that at least this sample of people all seemed to like, adding $30 USD for Crossover Office doesn't seem unreasonable. And Crossover Office has a gui tool that lets you click a windows app to install it and does the configuration for the wine bottle.
>>Keep in mind that until the Linux kernel and the multitude of desktop environments get MAJOR commercial software and hardware support Linux will gain no ground towards getting the people like in the video to use it.
Seems the cash really is not the source of the problem at all. After all, look at the money Microsoft has to share with (bribe) manufacturers, and of all OS's drivers on Windows are by far a bigger problem than on any other OS.
>>Linux is and always will be a niche market for tweakers and wireheads, and special custom applications. However if brought into schools and universities, and pumped vast amounts of money into the governments on a grand scale and merely saturated the system with it then things may change.
Again with the money??? I've switched countless people over to Linux, at their requests, after simply letting them use my laptop for a few minutes while on holiday. All it takes it a bit of exposure and 5 seconds of education: yes, you, too, can be free of your "protective software" subscriptions.
I would like to see the program repeated in Europe, South America, USA...
Some of these guys keeps going on and on about how good linux is here, how good linux is there... so freakin what, in a lot of the corporate world people don't really care about linux in a desktop environment, because their tools are windows based, or even they have learned to become proficient excel vba coders themselves... and they do some hectic stuff with that stupid code sometimes, now telling that guy to use OO won't work, as he won't have the time to struggle with OO first, he wants to use it quickly, not necessarily efficiently.
most of these replies are so expected from both communities it's actually boring and pushes people away.
as for wine, stop wining, as most people I know in the corporate world won't be interested in an emulator to run the apps they want to run, i can guarantee you this.
"in a lot of the corporate world people don't really care about linux in a desktop environment, because their tools are windows based, or even they have learned to become proficient excel vba coders themselves... and they do some hectic stuff with that stupid code sometimes"
but what about those office secretaries, or people who aren't vba coders, like you explained. why not give them a cheap OS to use for simple tasks? they're not coders. on one hand, you're saying business men don't care about linux, and on the other hand, business people DO care about COST, RELIABILITY, and SECURITY.
ESPECIALLY "coders".
If they have apps they need to run that are written for windows, why would they not be "interested" in running them in an emulator? Too hard to click on "open this using wine" when they try to run it? So you are saying what, the guys going on and on about how good linux is are wrong because some business dudes learned how to code in a limited, proprietary language, and are afraid of clicking on an emulator, so therefore, Linux sucks? Good argument. Nothing should ever change then. Even if microsoft comes out with a new system or version of VB that causes these dudes to relearn some things, that would be horrible then I suppose. So your business examples never upgrade windows? Never have to learn another way to do things? What if Microsoft forced them? Then what excuse would they have? All kinds of fan bois ranted about how noone likes Linux because it is different from what people expect their Windows to look like. But then Vista comes out and everyone more or less has to learn a completely new system. But they do it, because that's the point. They aren't knowledgable or selective or anything. They are sheep, and just like you, none of their opinions will ever be anything more than reitterated garbage that some other sheep has told them they should say.
"But then Vista comes out and everyone more or less has to learn a completely new system."
No. Just no.
Vista is still Windows. I've used Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Ubuntu. Every version of Windows is still much more like every other version of Windows (even between the DOS-based versions and the NT-based version) than Ubuntu is.
Not to say that Ubuntu is unlearnable for someone who reasonably knows his way around a computer, but to anyone in that category, Vista is not "a completely new system" from XP.
w.i.n.e - Wine Is Not an Emulator
Just for the record here... WINE Is Not an Emulator. That's what the name means. If you knew what an emulator was you'd understand. VMware isn't even an emulator.
WINE just provides libraries to run windows applications in linux. It doesn't recreate the environment at all. The software runs natively on those lilbraries.
VMware is a virtualization software. You're not "emulating" anything. You are actually running Windows when you use VMware or software like that.
There are several performance setbacks that are POSSIBLE but it's not the case so often with most consumer software.
actually, VMware emulates x86/x64 hardware.
Actually VMWare virtualizes hardware, and allows pass-through CPU usage, whereas, emulators, as theuir name says, EMULATE CPU instructions... Therefore, virtual machines (that's what VM stands for) are much faster than emulators...
"Most PC games are windows only. And that's what most people use @ home."
Gamers are the minority of pc users. Most gamers are not using the pc to game. And you can succesfully emulate windows inside linux(vm ware etc) In order to play the few games that don't run using Wine. So there is no reason to criticise linux because your games won't run.
The majority of people out there are a risk to their pc's security. I would rather trust my grandmother and rest of my family with linux rather than having to set up firewalls and anti spyware/virus programs inside windows. Not to mention updating them each week.
Classic line at about 1:52...
"...the Vista was a bit hard for me to get user-friendly with."
It's hard for any user to get friendly with bad software.
What, exactly, makes Vista "bad software"?
Go ahead, make something up. Preferably, do what everyone else does: think of something that Linux does poorly, and then say Vista does it poorly instead, even though it's something that hasn't been an issue with Windows for over 10 years.
I'm waiting.
Haven't seen KDE 4 live but in the video it looked a lot like Apple's OS
People liked Vista MUCH better than Vista (sic). See the http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/ where people think Vista is the next Windows and are *very* impressed.
...it looks really faked the MojaveeExperiment...
Can anyone discern which of the Lenovo Thinkpad models that laptop was?
Looks like a T400 (with camera and probably one of the LED backlit screens) to me.
I still think its a re hashed version of Vista
RT
www.online-anonymity.at.tc
Windows Seven seems to me like a "Vista Lean."
It's been installed on a number of netbooks and seems to actually run fairly comfortably. It's Vista that's been trimmed down to run better with fewer resources. I think it will be a winner.
Congratulations! You lied to people!
I could show a bunch of old/non computer savvy individuals OSX and tell them it's Windows 22 and they are sure to believe me.
I hate these back and fourth arguments. If you're poor KDE and/or Gnome are the way to go. If you like your computer to do stuff without a whole lot of frustration 99% of the time. Windows rules.
After seeing this video, I think Visa/7 interface still looks better. The animation/transition in KDE4 in this demo is not that smooth. The only impressive feature is windows switching effects but there was a flash/gap when they open up the open office, and image loading was messy as well.
In the end, I think Vista is better as a whole visual graphic experience.
KDE is def better than W7 you should of try ask me what I think about Windows 7 with KDE On it ;)
As a Linux user, I'm pretty happy being the minority. We luck out because malicious software is rare for us because of our small market share. If a friend is installing Windows for the 15th time on their computer I'll suggest something easy like Ubuntu. It takes 7 clicks to install and once you show them Synaptic it's a dream come true.
BUT... Do I care if Linux catches on? No. It'll never die, it's got a popular niche market. I could care less if it becomes as popular as Windows. In fact, I don't think this is even popular due to the many Distros. The Distro that has the most chance now is Ubuntu, but then we'll all be complaining why people use Ubuntu when they should be using, I dunno, Mint!
Let the masses suffer with Windows. I'll be safe and cozy with my *nix boxes. :D
This is Ziff Davis. You're supposed to say, "OH MY GOD!! NEW MICROSOFT STUFF!!! I'M COMING!!!! OH YEEEAAAAAHHH!!!"
You're obviously new here.
I'm enjoying KDE 4.2 on Kubuntu 8.10. It's still NOT quite as stable as KDE 3.5 was for me, but they've done an amazing job improving it since 4.0 came out a year ago. The KDE developers are awesome, and a friendly bunch. Good work. :)
Hi. I'm a liar taking advantage of the ignorance of the public. I'm also a jerk-off freetard. Look at me go!
Wow, that's what <a href="http://dailyrevolution.net/?p=4015">I did</a>, sort of: http://dailyrevolution.net/?p=4015
And nothing like Win7...
Isn't that criminal? Telling people that crap is Windows 7?
The whole debate is just stupid. Use what makes you feel better. Both are of just about equal quality. I use KDE, cause I just don't have thousands of dollars to **** away on windows. It suits my needs, works well, and runs all of the windows apps I still use.
Cool but after they are done surfing the web...get them to update the driver for the graphics card....then wait for head explosion...
Fantastic.... Vista is a nightmare to use, a good way for people to see linux in action.
http://www.xko.com.au
I hope you did tell them?
I'm using openSUSE 11.1 and the sound in that embedded video doesn't work. Sound works for just about everything else I do, so I guess ZDNet have chosen some evil/proprietary codec. Way to go!
I just watched and listened to it using Firefox running under KDE3.5 and Slackware12.1. No problem with the audio.
Very funny, Ratbags. Good job.
lol in my opinion you´re all a bit stupid. When Windows games does not perfekt run on Linux, you give the fault to Linux xD Its the fault of the developer. Its amazing that so many Windows stuff run on Windows. All the much important and user friendly stuff like an Packet System (APT, Pacman, something else) is not aviable in any way in Windows. Why? Is easy install to easy for users who want an easy OS?
Only the addictet hardcore gamers want Windows, no other people who worked some days with a real Linux Distribution would never change
i meaned Package System (not Packet)
and i mean its amazing that so many Windows stuff runs on Linux (not Windows)^^
"When Windows games does not perfekt run on Linux, you give the fault to Linux xD Its the fault of the developer."
It's nobody's "fault." Linux can't realistically be expected to run Windows programs perfectly. Developers of Windows software can't be expected to take pains to make sure it runs on Linux... that's not their job.
Windows games not running perfectly in Linux is a consequence of choosing one OS over another, that's all.
You should have used a _real_ KDE 4.2 with amarok2 and koffice2 etc... sure, amarok 1.x and openoffice look fugly on kde 4... and the generall look'n'feel of 4.2 is way better then 4.1...
also you probably shouldn't have used kubuntu then, because 4.2 is really unstable on kubuntu...
works really great on arch though :)
This is a waste of time. So what if you can trick people into thinking this is Windows 7? You just showed them a couple features that are nothing new and not worth anything.
Their reactions finding out if was KDE would be, "Oh ok. It looks a lot like Windows."
I could WOW people with Vista if I could throw it on a powerful laptop and show them 3 of the cool features it has. What did you show them that would really seem like a big jump over Windows? I'd like to see that portion of the video.
I think it proved 2 major points:
1. People, generally, are happy just to know how to turn on their computers. They didn't even notice the "K" in the corner of the screen and wonder why they've never seen that on Windows before, and why it would be there in Windows 7. Seriously. I'd expect a multicolored Windows button. A "7" button wouldn't even have surprised me much. But a "K"? Come on.
2. People, generally, have heard that Vista is bad. Even though everything these guys did in Kubuntu is perfectly possible and just as easy to do in Vista, these people decided it looked "easier" than Vista because they've heard that Vista is "hard," and that it was "better" than Vista because they've been told that Vista is "bad."
hehe :)
nieno ludzie pomylic linuxa z windowsem ....
no coments
:P
I use Kubuntu, KDE3 with compiz and people ask me the same question severla times: "Oh is this windows 7 ?" LOL !!!! :-D
taaaaa w starcie "K" Moze kompatybilno�� mniej programów na linuxa, ze starszymi grami itp podobnie cho� bezpieczne i w miar� �atwe w obs�udze to jednak nie przekonuje mnie do linuxa. Posiedzia�em troche na KDE wi�c wiem co� o tym.
don't like both KDE and Windows Vista or 7. I think the best thing is when u have everything, but it's compact and don't have too much useless effects =(
The question asked in the main article was on whether or not KDE-4 and Windows 7 looked too much alight, and then which one looked better.
Well, the fact is, KDE4 has been in open development for literal years, with the finalization of the API's and libraries in January of 2008, almost a full calendar year before the 27 December 2008 leak of Windows 7.
The conclusion is that Windows 7 looks like KDE 4, and to be honest, as I commented on Dailytech, the initial screenshots of Windows 7 looked an awful lot like the Mepis 2003 KDE release.
The fact is, while there is a lot of whining about who apes who between Microsoft and Apple, a lot of the actual desktop functionality isn't coming from either company. It's coming from projects like KDE, XFCE, LXDE, or Enlightenment (E16/E17). It's of no surprise then that Apple, widely regarded as having a "sexy" desktop uses a lot of KDE developed code behind their desktop interface ( http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html ), and also is reported to be responsible for forking KHTML into Webkit : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KHTML :: http://webkit.org/ ).
Now, my honest opinion is that KDE4 looks, and works, better than Windows 7, and I'm just basing this on the KDE 4.2 code that has still has not achieved feature parity with the previous KDE 3.5.x releases.
The very good news for Linux in general is that Vista proved that Microsoft wasn't invincible, that Microsoft wasn't a monopoly, and that Microsoft could make multiple mistakes. The better news for Linux is that Windows 7 is basically Vista Service Pack 2, and that Microsoft is pulling the same stunt(s) that they pulled with Windows 2000 and Windows Xp launches. While a lot of people "love" Windows 7 now, it hasn't yet hit the mass market. Okay, it's the Vista that needed 2 more years development time, but in the time it took Microsoft to finish "baking" Vista, Linux already has a lock on the netbook market, is surging in the notebook market, and has gained gamer-friendly technologies like AMD Crossfire. Add to that many game developers needed to switch from DIrectX to OpenGL API's to maintain graphics rendering across the millions of Windows Xp installations in use, AND Vista installations, AND Windows 7 installations, and suddenly Linux is a viable desktop development target, and possibly the development platform of choice to create multi-platform software.
Like or not, Microsoft has successfully fragmented what used to be the Windows Monopoly with the multiple editions of Vista, the upcoming 6 editions of Windows 7, and the huge base of Windows Xp. Things look even less rosy for Microsoft with some hardware vendors eying ARM based notebooks for the sub $200 market, which won't run Windows at all... but CAN run technologies like KDE 4 or LXDE.
Does this mean that we are on the cusp of a sudden about turn with everybody embracing Linux?
Um. No. What is happening is that customers are waking up to the fact that they have choices. They don't have to rely on one company to do everything, and pay up whatever price that company dictates. What we are looking at, especially with the liberal democrat cause financial crisis, is an increased focus on value for money... which Microsoft hasn't delivered since Windows 98SE hit the market. What could happen is an increase on the trend of the past several years: Linux usage going up, Apple usage going up, Microsoft purchases going down.
Ä° think Kde4 is the best desktop manager !!!
Great job guys.
Windows 7 is just as hard as learning a new language.
Since you're learning anyway, THIS IS THE RIGHT TIME.
Why not learn Linux instead of wasting time on learning crabby windows 7?
Don't know what version of windows 7 you have
used, but after switching from being a power
user of Windows XP straight to beta build 7000
of Windows 7, I never had an inch of problem
converting both my old laptop, and new desktop.
Linux on the other hand, every distro I've tried
just dosen't work "out of the box". Even trusty
google and Linux power users couldn't help
me before my patience went.
Windows 7 is very much like any other
Windows, they all have the same feel from
all the way back to Windows 3.1
The debate between windows and linux is insane. No side will win.
I am a student studying IT, 3rd year. I have several systems at home, running Ubuntu & Kubuntu, Vista SP1, 7 Beta and XP SP3.
When it comes to day to day use, I would still prefer XP. It is stable, and with the right additions (Kaspersky) it is somewhat secure. The number of issues i see arising out of Vista clearly defines the reason corporate clients won't upgrade. Backwards compatibility was a fudge job, and a lot of companies use proprietary software on their systems (Migration and retraining issues). Windows 7 Beta, while more stable is essentially a facelifted Vista in its current form, so until drivers and software are at a complete and working level, it really doesn't qualify for comparison.
As for ubuntu/kubuntu, the system is great, but yes there are a few more steps needed. And realistically it isnt the linux developers that need to do it. Linux in it's current iterations are as an OS, friendly and easy to understand/adopt. Hardware manufacturers however, have been slowing down the linux foothold by not concentrating any resources on the system. Yes, nVidia might have great drivers, but the ATI supplied drivers seem more like a side project for their driver development team. Sound, wi-fi, mobile devices, you name it, there is bound to be a problem. As cloud computing comes of age, and with the concentration of hardware manufacturers on linux as a full, in place OS things will take off.
My opinion on these operating systems is from a basic end-user point of view. The kind of people who like to go out, install something and expect it to just work. Realistically, the end user can't be expected to know how to pass terminal commands into a linux box or how to attack the more in depth and powerful features and tweaks in windows.
Before I get stabbed by fanboys from either side, Linux is great, its powerful, flexible and will one of these days take off as a preferred OS. Until some more work is done though, it won't be a pick up and go OS like Windows currently is.
Windows guys, is unsecure, chronically flawed, but it is still the most used OS on the market. Why? Because an end user can pick up a copy of it and office of a shelf, whack them in, and you have a complete and (almost always) compatible with your existing hardware OS. It's also where most developers focus.
No one side will win the windows/linux/mac argument. They all have their good points and their bad. And realistically the potential of linux still hasn't been realised.
Whats the fun in not fighting about it! LINUX rules, WInblows Drools!
The issue is about usability, your comments underline the prime issue without attacking Microsoft. As a former IT Manager (retired) the system I put in place was able to accommodate all of Windows/Linux/MAC. Windows ran the mail and the DNS etc, not because I wanted that but because the corporate people (my bosses) wanted certain features Windows provides that the others did not at the time.
The various assistants who came on work terms or hired as help desk could only handle Windows anything else was like I asked them to go to Mars. These are not run of the mill end-users but future techies. All they learn is Windows.
MAC is really a GUI running on top of BSD (not Linux - not Unix) which looks very similar to Linux and even has the same commands and command prompt environment.
So when Microsoft wakes up and realizes that they are simply re-inventing the wheel they to will switch to a Linux base and a Windows GUI.
That being said Linux is by far the most used OS because it doesn't have the same problems as Windows. How is that? Well most of the companies that market home use and corporate firewalls use a flavor of Linux to do so. Additionally Linux is the OS of choice for most embedded systems.
A lot of what is being said here is simply flag waving. It should be clear that the discussion and the stupid video made to trick the ignorant (not stupid - ignorant) people and it is about retail stuff. The video trick is used every day to have people buy stuff. Statistically all of the commenters fall into that bag including myself.
Linux and Windows serve different ends; that much is clear, what is not clear is what the point of the whole exercise is? Trick consumers? Trick you and me into wasting precious processor cycles writing about the stupid trick; a trick most salespeople use every day. My former boss used to tell me that getting angry because the sale-person lied to me was a waste of my time and energy. Don't get angry at or with people who lie to you because everybody is doing it.
End this Video lie and publicly apologize in a place where the Joe' and Jills you tricked will see it too; not just here.
Bozos with nothing better to do with their time, not even a legitimate scientific experiment, just stupid.
Most windows users keep raising backwards compatibility as an argument. I work in a corporate environment and I cannot source legit copies of XP to run core business proprietary software. Reverse engineering using .NET would be even worse because it is so dependant on service packs. I think that there is a strong argument to migrate to virtualised linux which will never be declared end-of-life.
Linux is much easier than few years ago,amarok has not version for Windows
When picture open in new window?
It's reminds me a childhood, when I use a datacassete to load and play a game on c64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GqXXLSfT7g
Heh, If you would try it with me I would start to laugh at you :D BTW W7 and Linux are great systems. It depends on what are you going to use it for. If you don't have got any money for new system for a while I recommand you plenty of linux distribution because it's for free and it's made for special purpose unlike Windows system.
you dont change kde logo on prepare windows menu
it's very funny ;)
That's why none of this pishposh matters.
In the end, Macs will own you all, and your children. Steve Jobs will end up like the Dalek master Davros, and then enslave you all to programmatically play minesweeper all day long in an effort to unlock all the mathematical knowledge of the universe while you listen to 'Time of Your Life by Green Day' on your iPod Mind Controller Extension Device....
just use the 'awesome' window manager. it is really awesome! :)
kde4 is too big...
i thinked about installing it, typed 'pacman -S kde' in console (i use arch linux) and...
with all of dependencies - over 500MB (!!!) for download. i don't have very fast internet connection - that download will be over 2 hours...
awesome is awesome!
I think the most insightful thing in this video is that the everyday, non-techy grandma consumer would be completely willing to try out KDE4, given the right marketing/deception.
Doesn't that give you a nice, fuzzy feeling?
All this video has shown us, is that people will pretty much accept what they're told.
If you demonstrate a product with enthusiasm you will sway a good number to your cause.
Add to that a rehearsed demonstration, and of course don't let the filthy masses actually touch the product.
Most people in the street wouldn't know there is a valid option other than Windows / OS X.
When presented with a OS they'll assume It's one they are familiar with.
Still would like to see a followup.. how about OS/2 Warp on a macbook and claim its OS X "meercat"
Did U ask just a begginers? It looks like Linux, thats a Linux style anyway.
I hope most of you know that Windos 7 is Windows Vista. Vista got such a bad wrap that Microsoft had to repackage it after they worked out the bugs in Service Pack 1. So what is new with Windows 7 that you don't get with Vista? Some nice new shiny box that costs 500$ (US). But whats a few hundered dollars between friends right?
The Windows 7 beta has been installed and tested with favorable results on a lot of systems with modest hardware configurations (including some netbooks), systems that couldn't even think of running Vista. So while it looks and smells a lot like Vista, it's a lot leaner than Vista. They did more than just bug fixes.
Ya know... Windows 7 has pretty much exactly the same visual make up as vista... only the taskbar is bigger and completely opaque... so... yeah? Its merely an upgrade to that same experience
After using vista solidly since release and loving it compared to XP, and now widnwos 7... really dont understand the fuss, 7 takes longer to boot up than vista. But i will give it has a lot of those minor tweaks that make things look simpler and do like it, but still tossing up between what i think of the new taskbar.
Ive tried linux a fair bit, its cool, but nothing to match my fully up and running windows installs, its too much extra work and tweaking to make it yours. Windows is pretty much ready to go. Install it, have windows update install all your required drivers and away you go.
I install a complete Debian desktop faster than installing a complete Windows desktop.
Of course it will be faster if i install a Debian server.
I use windows only for gaming and Windows development.
Believe me, if some specific applications in my office would run using wine, cxoffice, etc I would convert all those Win$crap desktops to Debian.
Oracle apps works fine, OpenOffice, Evolution, Firefox. Two things left that I couldn't work them out are Oracle Discoverer and Exceed WMS.
But who knows? ;)
The good news is, we dont buy Vista and or upgrade any dekstops in the office to Vista because we don't think we want to spend some budget to buy a decent VGA (read again : VGA), adding memory, etc for something as silly as "Aero"....
Not long ago when I was testing kde4.2b a dude came to me and said: Wov, what kinda Windows is that!?. I tried to explain that is actually linux and he replied: Neeeh, you're lying :P
Windows Aero can do not more than 10% of what Compiz does, so this dude was very strange indeed... :)))
and that is that the consumer wants something thats EASY to use
Somos animal de costumbre. pronto nos daremos cuenta que es un a buena herramienta
Actually, if any of you stopped for a minute you might realize that for many years now hardware manufacturers have been catering exclusively to Windows OS. Winprinters is just one example. To get the best out of any computing experience a person needs to have a minimum of skill. If I wanted a computer that was like a toaster I would ask for it. Each kind of OS caters to specific users, Windows for business apps, MAC for graphics and video, and Linux for the science and tech people that need the flexibility to "DIY" that neither Windows or MAC give a person. It's Okay, relax it;s just a machine and someone else's idea of what it should do. You either like the idea or you don't. Quit slagging each other and get a life.
... in fact you can run Linux, OSX and Windows all on the same (Intel) hardware. It is not as simple as saying MACS are just for creative/media types any longer, and PCs are for business people. That is bogus. I run commercial apps on my MAC happily, and some of the graphics cards/processors available for PCs can turn them into media-intensive crunchers. I currently dual boot Ubuntu and WinXP on the same machine.
I prefer MACs over PCs anyday, due to their reliability, performance, GUI, security, and control.
Personal choice. Some people like the technical challenge of overcoming BSODs, or the pleasure of hunting down the right driver version for their new add-on, or testing the technical ability of virus developers ... I don't.
clearly you missed the point and chose instead to rant rave about MAC and it's better system (or rather the one you prefer) which is precisely the point... duh!!
I now indulged in something I detest, I apologize to my higher ideals for letting you drag me into such a stupid, stupid, stupid discussion.
"or the pleasure of hunting down the right driver version for their new add-on"
Every *nix fanboy says this about Windows. In reality, this hasn't been an issue since Win2k at the latest, except in cases where drivers for certain hardware just don't exist for the version of Windows you're using. But guess what? Lots more drivers don't exist for Linux.
> I prefer MACs over PCs anyday, due to their reliability, performance, GUI, security, and control.
Mac is an appliance unlike PC. Even HP's RISC or Sun's SPARC stations are not bount so tightly with their "native" OSes as MAC is. You cannot istall MacOS on non-Mac HW unlike Win, Lin or Solaris, and in those hack cases when it is possible, MacOS is not more stable than any other *NIX, and there are viruses for MacOS unlike Solaris. It is easy to make a closed architecture Linux-based appliance with customized that works better than Mac for one third of Mac's price, and I think there is NO way for Apple to make MacOS work stable on the whole zoo of hardware on which Win, Lin, BSD and Solaris can work -- that's why MacOS is not sold for non-Mac hardware.
Most people are easy to influence and will agree to anything you say to them provided you do it the right way. Critical approach is not a human thing.
The only difference is they rhyme with different words.
What great commitment to something you didn't create, contribute to, or even been able to convince anyone else to switch across to. You must be so proud of your failed ambitions. War fought, War lost... Windows 7 is coming and you are again all hands to the pump to defend something that doesn't really matter anymore and for what? Religious reasons alone. Tall poppy anyone...?
> Windows 7 is coming and you are again all hands to the pump to defend something that doesn't really matter anymore and for what?
Let it come, Corporate will ignore it in the same way they ignored Vista. And when MS gives up supporting Win32, they'll ignore all new MS OSes without Win32: an $1 mln third party Win32 appication does not worth redesigning for .NET to satisfy MS's hunger for bucks. And btw, $10 mln or more applications are never written in Win32: Oracle is in Java, Siebel is in Java etc. Sun may die, but Java will live, and nobody breaks it as it is not a rub for anybody or anything because it is FREE AND OPEN SOURCE and may be forked if necessary. :D
Monopolies Rule and Choice sucks! Microsoft forever!!!! Not. Nice job, I hope they don't go out and upgrade their Windows now, based on the demo... Ah, you did tell them it was Linux at the end of it all didn't you?
What distros have you actually tried?
I have always been interested in installing Linux, I have tried many distros, but always gone back to Windows in a few days.
I usually install it on my 700m Dell, a small Centrino laptop with 1gb of Ram.
I installed Ubuntu 8.10 about 3 weeks ago, and on this system, it is a dream. In fact, this distro could be targeted at exactly that - the average person.
It happily picked up all my device drivers, including wireless, which in the past has been difficult. With this distro comes everything - your mail client, word processor (open office), media player, graphics tools (gimp) and even a bittorrent client.
If you are looking to do things like adding your Ubuntu installation to a windows domain, yep it takes some tweaking, or set up Samba to see your windows shares, yes it might take time. But for other software its as easy as going to 'Add programs' and ticking a box.
Perusing this distro for the last few weeks, I think Ubuntu is a great operating system for the 'average user', especially those new to computing - and the fact that it runs so nicely on an older underpowered laptop.
Easy to use, that is what people wants, the next time you create a similar video, let people interact with the system, not only show them fancy useless efects, let the user install an application like VLC without interntet, let them try to install someting with the command line or compile a program to install it, let the user try to install the nvidia driver (in window you only have to clic a few times), if you do that, we can talk what is "easy to use" for a user, next time, try to not hide to the people what linux is about.
You don't need to do any of the things you mention with a modern, full featured, Linux distribution like say Mandriva or Opensuse.
Your comments just show how you dont know anything about Linux and post crap... If you ever tested a Linux distro like Ubuntu, Mint, gOS, etc, you would find that almost everything you need is already there, no command line or compile for you mate!! You dont even need to install anything, just use the Live way!
P.S.- im using M$ xp here... but i tested and loved a bunch of distros.
... and You see that you can do virtually NOTHING without Internet with newest OSes, be it Linux, *BSD, Windows or Solaris. But you can freely mirror any trusted Linux repository locally for your friends or company -- and what about MS Download Center?! :D
sos unos estupidos, en su comparación. Los unicos engañados con su payasada sos ustedes.
Open your mind.
Go to http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ and download the film. It's free. No piracy.
If you are Linux you have The Knowledge and knowledge is power and liberty. No one can stop us. If Linux not looks so good today, remember: Tomorrow is another day and the evolution will not stops. It's cool! I'm not against Windows but PRO Linux.
Great video boys.
...where government officials adopt no mandatory unfree MS-based software to receive electronic tax returns...
Happened to the comments on this page? Take a breath people - it's a funny video if you know what KDE is. Just enjoy it.
if software will be for Linux (I'm mean CAD-systems, accessories) and other ... and games ;). At now microsoft - monopolization software market. Graphic interface - good, but no at all :-(
> if software will be for Linux (I'm mean CAD-systems, accessories) and other ... and games ;)
Just wait a little until MS fully breaks COM/Win32 compatibility: they are eager to do it, it is a rub in their plans. All this soft will be in place for non-Win32: it is no difference for developers where to migrate from Win32, and all other platform (including .NET thanks to mono project) are cross platform... :)
It might be easy to fool people on the street, but if a user had to play with KDE all day at work, they would have the same complaints as Vista users. There would be an even bigger learning curve moving from Windows to Linux than those moving from Vista to Windows 7.
-PDB
www.Bauer-Power.net
... at zero cost
> but if a user had to play with KDE all day at work, they would have the same complaints as Vista users.
Yes, and then these users quickly move from KDE to command-line and learn how to use their brains efficiently. :) After some time they call WIndows "this poor frob", even the housemaids :D
> There would be an even bigger learning curve moving from Windows to Linux than those moving from Vista to Windows 7.
And no learning curve back from *NIX to Windows... Even under risk of punishment... :D
the person who knows the value of freedom never uses the **** windows......after every software asks and blackmails that "i will stop working if you don't pay to me".
but Linux or its softwares never ask the **** any time.vlc,amarok,firefox etc
win. 7 ain't all that great! runs 'bout as fast as xp! Kubuntu 8.10, w/ KDE 4 is 2x as fast!
If I may ask, don't they see the big "K" on the left bottom?
microsoft told all major companies that they would replace all the vista licenses with XP for free.
> microsoft told all major companies that they would replace all the vista licenses with XP for free.
And what should poor home users do?! :(
Then I'll switch. Interface design is not the issue.
This was a very interesting video. It shows that a
nicely configured kde is easy to use.
I use Vista at home, but support Comcast networking customers, mostly with XP
What I learned to do the Vista way first, I know better how to do the Vista way. What I learned to do the XP way became a bit of a mental block to learning to do the Vista way.
Before Vista came into the home on a shiny new laptop in 07 (1 gb memory when new, 2.5 gb now), I was a RedHat 9 user. Now I use Ubuntu Hardy and Kubuntu Intrepid. These are on older hardware (Celeron 730 mhz at less than 512 kb ram)
I can tell that Vista is of the same generation as Linux versions that came out at the same time. There are similarities of what is required to do security. You don't have to be Admin or root to install software, just enter the appropriate password. Unfortunately for users who don't want to learn, they will not be installing software that requires the admin password. In Vista, I get by this by having Admin rights. Got that by entering the user dialog in Control Panel when on the admin account.
I like all the free board and card games that come with Ubuntu: Sudoku, Shinshen-sho, Kbattleship, Mines, Spider (in the Patience package) and freecell and mod3 . Hearts seems to be missing, but all in all, ubuntu has more of the free games I want, without the advertising and junk. And I can play Noah's Ark in Firefox (google: Miles Cooley)
I have one fellow who I am getting to learn computing from scratch on Ubuntu. Even learning how to find a web page is a challenge. Silly browser address bar that thinks it is a search bar.Try helping someone over the phone when they really don't know what they are doing - there is a limit to tech support.
So, bottom line: It really boils down to which you learn first and how the enhanced version is marketed to you personally. And what you want.
It won't suit everyone, but it gives users an attractive alternative.
The bottom line on OSes is this. Apple has the best product, period. Microsoft has the most market share (if you include business users). Linux has a solid niche product. There is an existing balance where Apple and Microsoft make roughly the same revenue from 25%-75% market share respectively, so neither business has any great need to change their business model. And why would they? Apple have a loyal and growing base of people who actually want to CREATE something with their computers. Microsoft has an ENORMOUS self-perpetuating ecosystem of advisors and "certified" consultants supporting each other with unecessary gobbledegook and bugs. Let's take one classic difference between the 2 main OSes and look at the reasons why. Apple has 1 version of desktop OS X. Windows has god knows how many versions of Windows 7 planned. Why? It would be possible for M$ to upgrade every version of XP or Vista to a standard (i.e. full featured) version of Windows 7, but they choose not to. Why? Because for every glitch, bug and virus on Windows, you will need an army of support and tech types to look at your system/hardware/version/apps etc. and work out what the F*** is going wrong. The tech support teams win, because there is plenty of work for them, and M$ wins because the tech consultants ensure a market for their products.
OS market share should always be shown split into home v business. Most users only get to choose the former, and that is why Apple is cleaning up for home use, even if they are slightly more expensive (although comparable really, especially if TOC is calculated). The economic situation opens the door for Linux and KDE to make a case, especially on those old Win-PCs which could do with a decent OS on them. Users then enjoy reliable computing at home and begin to demand the same at work, instead of putting up with the M$ way. Microsoft is in big trouble, and should consolidate its offerings into enterprise focussed services, before Apple and Open Source gain enough support/traction/money/confidence to go after that too.
Example: I am the tech support to my 60-something father. He had a PC running Vista. Calls I used to get = "Why isn't the printer/network/website/etc. working?". I bought him a Mac. Now I get, "How do I geotag my photos? or When shall we video-conference again?".
Great video guys. Would love to see you try it with OS X.
Well, let's face it. Linux is much more feature rich, pretty, tweakable (if that's even a word), and......what's the other one. Wait. Oh right.... FREE!!
I guess that big K in the bottom left didn't raise any questions. :P
NICE WORK!! LOL
www.mepis.org 700 MB .iso file download to burn to CD. I like MEPIS Linux, too. I used version 6.0 to connect to a neighbors wireless network access point. I am sure you will like version 8.0. See how well ever device driver is loaded and configured for you!
www.puppylinux.org 94 MB Download to burn to CD.
Puppy Linux was first released in June 2003 by Barry Kauler from Australia.
http://www.puppylinux.org/downloads
I like using puppy linux 4.1.1, I watched the embedded video above using puppy linux. I keyed this entry using Firefox browser.
Download this 94 MB .iso (use burn image to disk to burn the file to the CD, select a slow burn speed like x4 or x8 to not create burn errors) . Reboot the computer with the CD in the CD drive. See how well puppy linux comes up and finds your hardware. After using Puppylinux from CD, shut down remove the CD, reboot and your windows is still their nothing changed no harm down.
Questions? connect to IRC channel #puppylinux on irc.freenode.net. Be patient and ask questions.
Help a friend out, and share a puppy linux CD.
Got a broken or no hard disk at all, drop a Puppylinux CD in the CD drive, and now you have a working computer. Works well in laptops, too!
Good Day Australia and World Viewers for Oregon USA,
..everyone! I think it's great that we have here such a diverse range of experience and opinion.
WinXP is great, so is FreeBSD. I run Slackware with fluxbox on most of my machines, but I don't mind KDE 3.x. I detest Vista and Gnome and Xfce as it happens.. so, given the choice, I know what I want from my system [Slackware+fluxbox+winxp in a virtual machine and also dualboot]
The reality is that for nerds and geeks everywhere, we have so much choice.
Experiment.
Find what suits you best [eg: Vista causes me to bash the keyboard, slam the mouse on the desk and grit my teeth...whereas XP is mostly pain-free and GNU/Linux (Slackware) with fluxbox is actually inspiring].
For the average muggle, neither OpenSolaris, FreeBSD or GNU/Linux really cut the mustard. If you run a linux distro, and you love it, give it to your friends. Help them with it. If you aren't prepared to setup a mutliboot system for them and ease the transition, then keep quiet about it.
For every poor IT student, there are over 9000 ignorant Microsoft consumers just itching to hand over cash - use them to fund your studies ;)
I've deliberately left out any mention of Apple/OSX because..well..I like to right-click now and then. Also, I can't help but associate Apple with beardy leftist coked up lunatics and smelly sk8-punk-emo kids. This one time I did meet a serious media professional who used Apple systems, and they worked great for him. Fantastic! - the right tool for the job.
I really don't care what OS or window manager you use, if you can use it to produce good work. You however should care. Does your current OS suit your goals? Does it perform as you expect? etc. etc.
In summary - it's all out there waiting to be discovered. If you don't take any initiative to educate yourself, then it's your bed and you can lie in it... it's just that the rest of us are probably getting on with valuable work while you're missing out.
Whenever I am asked for an opinion on <insert operating system name> I always ask "Oh, what's wrong with what you're using now?"
Now and in the next 3-4 years is the best time ever for Linux to mature, due to the fact we are heading (or in) a recession people will be looking to save money. IE. windows/office/spyware/anti virus software approx price $600.00, Linux price $0.00 learning curve for Linux 2-3 hours. people will want to save that money and know that when they get the foundations of linux learnt their skills can only be improved over the long term. I have now converted all our home systems over to Linux. even our teenage son (who was addicted to ms 3d games) has switched and swaers he will never go back to m$. by the way we now use Mint Linux, with office org/ firefox and evolution.
> windows/office/spyware/anti virus software approx price $600.00
Yes, for Vista Home + MSO 2007 home/student + some symantec, all boxed versions. And a $1000 desktop or a $1800 laptop added to make it all work with acceptable speed. :) Is it an anti-crisis solution? :)
http://www.Win7connect.com also has news of the latest build, good to see it coming along so well.
I'm running KDE4.2 on Kubuntu 8.10 and Windows 7 on a dual boot machine, fresh installs at the same time on a new HD. Not even 2 months later, Win7 is slowing down, and KDE4.2 is still going strong. (Keep in mind, both OS's are in Beta stage) I still prefer to use KDE over windows. I will say that Win7 is a VAST improvement over Vista, however.
But i just unlike Ubuntu,i like other distro like Pclinuxos,Knopix,Fedora,Fresbie,Mandriva,Slackware .
From windows i test from dos to windows7.
almost badly windows were windows milenium,windows Vista and windows 2008 server rc1.
Macos is very god to work with them.
Other os i like is Beos in present (Haiku other zeta).
Kde efects is more better then windows7 and not require so many resources like windows.
In office open office Oxygen can see xml documents and can edit and can use vb macros.
To me, KDE looks the best (compared to Windows 7 & GNOME).
There are a lot of people here talking about how/when/if Linux will be widely used by the general public...
Personally, I don't want that to happen. This is what happened to windows, and why I don't use it. It would mean dumbing it down for the average joe. now maybe someone can make a free OS for them, but not linux. Linux never was meant to be used by the masses, and shouldn't be butchered to do so.
And don't say the masses need to get smarter. that's like telling a dog to talk.
It ain't going to happen. So let MS or Apple handle them, or dedicate a new open source OS to them specifically. We do NOT need to butcher Linux to make the "average joes" like it more.
Why is it even a big deal that Linux has more users? it has plenty to keep it going and going good, as far as user contributions go. And it's free so it's not like we're all getting paid to get more people using it! what's the deal here??
You may argue that the general public has a right to a better and/or free OS. It does, but not linux. It's just not meant for that. And I like Linux very much just the way it is.
I also don't want to become a target for "hackers" and viruses and things like that. Do you?
I don't think you have seen Kubuntu linux 9.04 with kde 4 have a look at linux.host22.com in the reviews section.
Ok - here's my two cents... I have my laptop dual booted w/ xp and Suse 11.1 w/ kde 4.2I The only crashes I get in Linux are when I'm messing with stuff that average joe doesn't even know exists in windows (command line, anyone?)
Anyway, I'm not sure how many of you have seen this... Take a peek - It's kind of eye opening: http://widefox.pbworks.com/Kernel-Comparison-Linux-vs-Windows
Who gathers all of this information saying linux is only 1%? From all the information I have gathered, this information comes from sales. Not many people sell linux computers, people download it for free. Most people buy computers with windows preinstalled. They wipe it for linux. These numbers will still show windows + 1
Well, today was the first time I have actually viewed this particular piece.
Well bit of background, I am a devout Mandriva user all the way back to version 6 Mandrake. But seeing as my main source of income is having to rescue windows systems I have to know the what happens with each new release.
I have a Compaq Presario Celeron based laptop (15" widescreen), with one gig of ddr2. I initially got the lappy for work use but I immediately removed the vista home basic, hey I hate driving a dying truck as much as anyone!
Well I installed XP in there and found it ran like a tuned Honda CRX.. I then thought lets see how it ran with a copy of Fedora well I ran the live edition and used the install function and was not too bad but ran like a family sedan... So I was curious had M$ actually done some homework finally so I managed to procure a copy of the Win7 beta (for eval only)... And to my surprise they have actually done some homework (but also included components of QT4). The desktop was very close to Trolltech's work.
For those un-initiated Trolltech is the company that created QT in the first place.
It is hardly surprising they have taken some pointers from Trolltech, the KDE desktop environment has been a hit with linux graphical desktop users for some time.
I dont know if I'm just weird or what but woah.. I started with Win 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP and now I'm on Vista. Never touched a Mac, but I dual boot Ubuntu now.
I have NEVER had a problem with Vista. No slow downs, no bugs, no problems in the least. The only issues have been game and software/hardware compatibility.
As for Ubuntu, not user friendly enough. I'm sorry, most people are too stupid to work a computer anwyays. Having to use the reps for downloads and upgrades?? lol forget it.
Its all about your computing style. I'm the only one on the face of this planet who loves Vista over every other OS (Up to now).
Working with repos is actually easier than browsing around the whole web for some piece of software.
The problem is that people are USED TO browsing around the whole web to find their software!
Iv'e used win 2k xp vista and ubuntu. i now pretty much use ubuntu exclusively (except for a few games i play on XP). From my experience ubuntu rarely breaks and if it dies.well if you have it setup right then i can re-install without losing my settings in 30 mins.
I by no means hate Ms but my preference is ubuntu. I can do everything i want in it easily (except gaming) and find it much more customisable. On the otherhand i agree linux is not for the absolute beginner but then again neither is installing windows in any of it's incarnations. a certian level of skill and understanding is required.
I wonder if we turned back the clock 20 years and linux had been initiator of the GUI would this arguement be turned around the other way.
What is better is not necessarily more prevalent. The MS marketing machine has done a brilliant job of marketing their product and people are generally loathe to go against something that has been a household name for so many years. It's like a form of brainwashing (and i don't mean this in a derogatory way). Someone tells you something from a young age and constantly re-enforces that throughout your first 20 years of life it stands to reason you are going to develop strong beliefs which allign themselves with that information.
At the end of the day..those that prefer windows will stick with windows. Those that prefer linux will stick with linux. In all probability there will continue to be alot of people who try linux and hate it...and just as many that try it and love it.
Live and let live
If people in Australia really thik that was Windows, they don´t even deserve to own a computer.
Thanks.......i live in Australia.......i use Linux......?
I am a Linux Advocate....
Comments like this make you sound stupid.......
Why not go for a walk around your local shopping center and ask random people what operating system you are running....?
It doesn't matter where you live......99% of people would not know and assume its windows because thats all they know...
If everyone has your attitude....it will probably stay that way...
Perfect chance to get people to the linux side of the world
I especially like how you see a bunch of scrambled, garbled, garbage as KDE 4 tries to do something as mundane as render a jpeg at 0:34
Linux is the best OS, end of discussion.But is not for people that doesn't know where is the Alt key on the key board. Linux is for smart people. Not for someone that is willing to spend $300.00 + on a OS just to look at pictures and hear music. ;)
wow! really good work!
i love linux to bits
im only 15 and convinced linux will take over - i run ubuntu with gnome interface but occasionally i use xfce. The only reason windows is better - it has itunes and you can sync your ipod!
this is the only reason i still have windows installed on part of my hd!
i dont use an ipod but afaik the i* devices are becoming more and more supported
amarok should support ipod:
http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/Media_Device:IPod
and thre is an addOn for songbird that should allow syncing with ipod:
http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/12
It's good to see young people interested in linux.....
There are applications which will sync your ipod, for Gnome and KDE....
You just need to do a search on the Ubuntu forums.
After some time of using kubuntu on my laptop and desktop....and refusing to go back to windows......i have found that there is a solution for every problem that i have faced......some just require a slightly different way of thinking, however in general its as simple of finding the right package repos.
Amarok, Rhythmbox, Banshee will sync your ipod.
Give it a try :)
** You go to ubuntu forums .... **
- configure net first... and mind that... in linux
- find a perticular ubuntu forum which u r interested in
- download some tar file from net and do some 10-20 operations given in it on terminal
- tadaaaa... your software is installed.
If you are enthusiast... u will definitely do that.
I and many of my friends do that today as well.....BUT.....
Think of someone who just wants the world to be simple
This is comparing apples to oranges... Both of them are formidable os's but for the different masses. True, you could teach a regular home pc user to run linux and they may actually like it, but most people don't like running terminal commands and 3rd party drivers (although companies are starting to release drivers) for their hardware. Same goes for linux users, sure they can get used to operating in windows and use more gui-interfaced commands, but usually people who operate in linux like terminals and open-sourced software. It all depends on the needs of the end-user... Me personally, I would like linux more if it had better support for my hardware (X-FI soundcard, tv-tuner, iphone), but they are lacking in that department and i have to rely on third party solutions that don't always work the same. As a programmer, however, I simply love linux because all software is open-sourced and they have great programming tools. It all depends on what the user expects out of their system, be it text-based commands combined with top notch security and great variety of open-sourced applications, or gui-based commands and well known/easy to use software such as word, windows media player, itunes, etc...
If some guys here think that windows have better device integration than linux, try osx leopard or snow leopard. On mac you can forgot about wifi problems, bluetooth conectivity, mobile phones+usb cables problems, hardware drivers, and all that **** from windows, plus you have terminal and all that stuff similiar from linux, because it's BSD based system. And you still have big company support plus the most beautiful gui design in system and in all apps. Just look here http://mac.appstorm.net/
All I can say is that the people that they interviewed are complete morons. If you can't wrap your head around Vista, you must be an idiot. Windows Vista is just as easy to use as Windows XP.
Windows 7's GUI is based off KDE but Kubuntu 9.10 and Windows 7 look nothing alike.
I've only just installed ububtu on my older laptop, and I just don't understand anything on it. Even something straight forward like installing a game seems impossible. Is there any automated install games on linux or is everything with that silly console thingy. For someone like me, it was easier to just double click on windows and a few seconds later the game was installed. But linux just to install a game you seem to have to do a lot of research just to do things that on windows is simple. I learned on windows, no one had to show or tell me how it was so easy to pick up but linux seems to be only catering for people who know codes and the such.
IS there an easy no frills way to use linux. And don't assume everyone has the same knowledge as most of the linux users here...
I've only just installed ububtu on my older laptop, and I just don't understand anything on it. Even something straight forward like installing a game seems impossible. Is there any automated install games on linux or is everything with that silly console thingy. For someone like me, it was easier to just double click on windows and a few seconds later the game was installed. But linux just to install a game you seem to have to do a lot of research just to do things that on windows is simple. I learned on windows, no one had to show or tell me how it was so easy to pick up but linux seems to be only catering for people who know codes and the such.
IS there an easy no frills way to use linux. And don't assume everyone has the same knowledge as most of the linux users here...
there are a lot of forums out there so just and go and read them
i guess a lot of peopele now can't tell the different from linux and windows but hey if linux gets there i would use it full time but i see kde 4 does look like windows 7 for me i like how linux is making it easy to user and now for the question is all the game companys out there write games for linux mircsoft would go broken shame shame shame
linux rulers
I used ubuntu because it was less resource hoggin on my old laptop. It was all fun. But for some reason it connected to my wireless router in the morning and woked throughout the day. But if I had to connect to it in the evening it simply gave me a headache. Without access to google I simply gave up on ubuntu and went back to XP. Which connects to my wireless internet anytime I want. Simple..
I loved linux but it's these simple irritations that made me switch back to Windows. And now I have got WIN7 it's easy simple and brilliant but doesn't however gave me the thrills of using a free OS.
after years and years of threats of lawsuits windows rips off linux. I use pclinuxos with kde4 and was sort of let down by microsoft's weak take on kde4. Why would I waste several hundred dollars to buy windows 7? I hacked my uxtheme file (real easy) on my xp machine and have it looking like snow leopard. operating systems don't matter. they all suck in their own way. windows is slow and easily infected. linux hates cell phones but is really customizable AND FREE. Apple osx is great, but who wants to buy a netbook for $2000? In a world where you can take any os and make it look like another, who needs Windows 7? Another distro that won't support a palm centro. wow. more like linux...
Never had to do anything with my pclinuxos install. Just worked right out of the box.. recognized my hp printer - the installer for the printer was easier than the windows version in xp! I was using crunchbang dual boot w xp on my netbook but found xp weak and slow. no chance windows 7 would run great on a netbook. Found that I was using crunchbang all of the time. Then I discovered pclinuxos. WOW. A finished linux product! Very polished and idiot proof (good for me). No terminal commands entered since I installed it. Set it up for single user. When I want to do something risky, it asks for a password. This discourages me from making rash changes... often I will pause, think of what I am about to do, and realize I may be missing a step and would have likely screwed something up. Windows? It would just let you shred the registry until a BSOD pops up with not even a warning! Zippy chance windows 7 is built any better. Rather than improving the software's self-protection, they actually built windows 7 to bother the stupid user LESS, letting you do a LOT more damage to your own system than vista or xp. At least they would stop you at some point... vista was pretty good at asking you if you were sure before doing anything drastic. Still, vista will let a web app download right to your hardrive without so much as a yes or no firewall question.
I installed Windows 7. I don't use anti-virus, anti-this, anti-that. It has run smoothly from day 1. In fact, I don't recall installing anything other than Office. I have never been more productive. Don't install viruses and you won't get them. Stop tinkering with your KDE, linux, multi-desktop, useless OS and get some actual work done.
this had to be a joke! obviously you don't really know what you're talking about! maybe if you don't get online, you won't get viruses, cause honey, everytime you get online viruses all over you PC.
You don't have to "install" them :))))
Microsoft is pathetic in the way they copy KDE and sell it for hundred of dollars!
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Some are saying Linux works better for them some Windows and it comes down to the hardware. Mac's truly just work because Apple has limited the hardware to a specific set. If the same was true for PC hardware, then I think we'd see greater stability. I will say that I have not used Windows since Vista, so I cannot comment on 7. Linux works with most things out of the box except for proprietary devices that the manufacturers don't want to work under Linux. None are perfect and the market trend for Windows is falling, not gaining.
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great work boys. i would have loved to see their reactions once you told them it was actually KDE...
You did tell them, right?