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Exetel boss bets against NBN and Quigley

By Liam Tung, ZDNet.com.au
29 October 2009 04:14 PM
Tags: adsl, broadband, conroy, exetel, hspa, isp, linton, mobile

John Linton, chief of internet service provider Exetel, says the National Broadband Network (NBN) should be handed to the only company that can build it — Telstra — and he's not impressed by NBN Co chief Mike Quigley.

Linton regards the Rudd Government's $43 billion plan to build a fibre network to Australian premises as nothing more than a political stunt aimed at covering up its failure to deliver a network by the end of 2008 as initially promised in 2007.

"As a political stunt, it's worked amazingly. So now they have made a promise based on nothing: there's no costing, no plan and the government has not said how it can be done," Linton told ZDNet.com.au.

"The 'politicians-that-be' went to the last election saying their version of the NBN would be up and running by the end of 2008. That was a stupid statement."

Linton has run Exetel since 2004 and claims to have 100,000 customers. His criticism of the NBN centres on its impact to the wholesale telecommunications market. Linton reckons the industry has "semi-stalled" since the first NBN process was killed and complains that his company has begun to face increasing difficulties successfully applying for port access at Telstra, AAPT and Optus' exchanges.

Because of the bottle neck, Linton says there is almost no chance customers will see new ADSL-type products over the next six to nine months. "The situation as I see it is that the suppliers — Telstra, Optus, AAPT — are not really investing in anything new, especially when you're referring to ADSL type broadband products."

"The current suppliers are holding on to the margins they have at the moment, and if anything they will seek to increase them rather than reduce them," says Linton.

Despite the constraints put on the business by the government's plans, Linton says the current system — with regulatory oversight by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) — has not worked. On the other hand, he fears splitting Telstra won't either. "After 17 years, you can definitely say that didn't work, but tearing apart the one company that has a national structure is another thing altogether."

His view, as head of a licensed carrier, is rare amongst an industry which has thrown its support behind the government's latest plan — with the notable exception of Telstra. Members of the Competitive Carriers' Coalition and newly-revived Terria Access Seekers Association (TASA) are urging the federal opposition to allow government's plan to proceed, in particular the plan to end Telstra's vertical integration.

The only one who can do it is Telstra. It would do it cheaper than a bloody government.

John Linton

For instance, Michael Malone, managing director of Australia's third largest ISP, iiNet (a TASA member), recently admitted to ZDNet.com.au that scepticism he had towards the NBN evaporated within 10 minutes of meeting the NBN Co's chief, Mike Quigley. But Linton is not convinced by the Quigley magic.

"Is [Mike Quigley] god? Can he reverse 100 years of telecommunications going one way and say, 'Oh, I'm Mike Quigley, and I haven't worked here in 30 years, I know nothing about running major networks, but someone has paid me $2 million a year so I can pretend I can'," Linton scoffed.

"The only one who can do it is Telstra. It would do it cheaper than a bloody government."

Linton's search for the holy grail
"We've been searching for the holy grail of routers ... one with an HSPA chipset included, which means you don't have to pay this inflated price for an HSPA modem any more," says Linton.

As fixed line broadband opportunities dry up, Linton sees huge potential in the evolution of High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) services, thanks to the falling price of said chipsets and major network expansions by the major carriers. One example of this includes switch and router maker, Huawei, recently launching a raft of carrier-branded devices which bundle standard Wi-Fi features with HSPA chipsets.

"Now they're beginning to make money out of HSPA, it's funding the provisioning of towers," says Linton.

Telstra, Optus and Vodafone Hutchison Australia have all recently undergone major mobile network upgrades. Growth in mobile broadband has also attracted new entrants, such as Channel Seven owned ISP, Vivid Wireless, which recently commenced building its WiMax network in Perth and has made tentative plans to expand the network to other major metropolitan regions.

Exetel is also on the verge of a major push into the business-end of broadband, and Linton says he plans to make its business revenue exceed consumer revenue by the end of 2010. To do that, he estimates, Exetel will need around 10,000 business customers on high grade data services. He says it currently has 1000 such customers.

"That's pretty ambitious for a small company," says Linton.

Policing the internet
Linton believes that the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft's (AFACT) Federal Court attack on iiNet was predictable and that he could tell it was gearing up for litigation.

"There was no doubt [AFACT] was looking for someone to take to court. We're not 'silly Michael Malone' saying 'pick me, pick me'. We don't have the money or the time [to deal with that]. 'Pick someone else,' we said."

For five years, says Linton, Exetel has forwarded AFACT's infringement notices to customers, and he openly admits all he wanted them to do was to deny that they are using Exetel's service to share copyrighted material.

And the tactic may have worked. At the heart of AFACT's case against iiNet is the claim that by opting not to forward its notifications, the ISP had implicitly authorised its customers' infringements.

There was no doubt [AFACT] was looking for someone to take to court.

John Linton

iiNet has defended its inaction on the basis that parts of the Telecommunications Act, which deal with customer privacy and interception, prevented it from forwarding the notifications; if AFACT wanted iiNet to send them, iiNet has argued that AFACT should have obtained a court order first.

Linton says iiNet's interpretation is garbage and that Malone's approach was arrogant. And while he does not appear to side with AFACT's cause, his understanding of what an ISP can do in a similar situation is in line with the copyright lobbyist's — essentially that notifying customers of an alleged breach is not illegal.

"We have standard terms and conditions," says Linton, "which say you may not use this service for illegal purposes. If someone comes to us and says [some customers] are, we pass that on, and say: 'Hey, someone says you're using our service illegally. Tell us you're not, or go somewhere else.' Then the whole point then becomes moot. You have one person saying one thing and another saying another. Then the proper course of action is going to court."

Linton also has well-formed views on one of the government's more controversial initiatives — mandatory ISP filtering — but he says, when Exetel approached the government to take part in the trial it was knocked back. Many of the ISPs in the pilot were much smaller than Exetel. Linton says he does not know why Exetel was not selected.

In the end Exetel went ahead with a trial of its own, conducted by New Zealand company, Watchdog International. He says he did it because the company wanted to know what it may face, should the policy be brought in. It turned out that his customers were of the type that Conroy's filter was meant to frustrate.

"We were told that some of the more pernicious sites scored a surprising number of hits, which is disappointing to learn. But would it slow the internet to a crawl? Would it cost you a fortune? The answer from our small tests was that it wouldn't have any effect at all."

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Talkback 33 comments

    exetel country broadband shaneg -- 29/10/09

    The NBN will compete against Exetel's Country Broadband, this service apparently has 100,000 regional customers connected via HSDPA.

    John is not concerned about loosing customers, he is concerned about the costs associated to duplicating services exetel already delivers, plain and simple.

    Everyone has an opinion.. Anonymous -- 29/10/09

    What is a "pernicious" site and what gives someone the right to say what is and what isn't a pernicious site??

    So long as a site contains no illegal material who is to say that I as an adult should not view it.. It would appear that Mr Linton by saying "We were told that some of the more pernicious sites scored a surprising number of hits, which is disappointing to learn. " has indirectly told us his personal views on internet censorship..

    As always read into this interview what you will but remember everyone on every side of the fence has their own wheelbarrow to push...

    "Penicious" Mark Newton -- 30/10/09 (in reply to #320390083)

    I think Mr. Linton has been drinking his vendor's kool-aid, and can't tell the difference between "his customers were of the type Conroy's filter was meant to frustruate," and, "his vendor delivered a solution which caused lots of false positives."

    If you listen to Conroy, his censorship system is meant to frustrate consumers of child porn. Is Mr. Linton really suggesting that his customer base contains a disproportionate number of pedophiles?

    Doubtful. What his trial revealed is the completely predictable AND PREDICTED result of deploying these systems, which is a "pernicious" quantity of unexplainable false-positives.

    hspa = viagra for exetel Anonymous -- 29/10/09

    All the guy ever does is sprout about hspa - hspa this, hspa that.

    Wireless is not the solution. Its a tool to complete the picture.

    Predictable Anonymous -- 29/10/09

    Very predictable statements from Mr Linton.

    I get the impression most of the industry view him as "fringe" material.

    Predictable indeed... Asmodai -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390089)

    Very predictable that anyone not falling in to line with the government's vision (delusion) is immediately written off as 'predictable'.

    Every time a paper, online article, editorial or other comment comes in that isn't glowing, bam, suddenly it's a hack site, or someone looking to feather their own next or some other excuse rather than considering why so many people have issues with the way the government is doing things.

    But that's okay, I'm sure if you pray real hard Conroy might even deliver on his promise to you someday. It might even be within your price range.. X D

    Late for an AA Meeting Anonymous -- 29/10/09

    Was he drunk when this interview was conducted?

    Anonymous? Peter H -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390094)

    An unsubstantiated statement from someone too gutless to step outside the Anonymous cover.

    Umm ok Anonymous -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390120)

    Yes because putting your name really means a lot?

    Peter H Peter H(2) -- 30/10/09 (in reply to #320390120)

    which Peter H are you? That's a little too anonymous in a land full of Peter H's.
    But but to the article,
    yeah, very odd set of opinions by Linton.

    re Anonymous? Who cares -- 01/11/09 (in reply to #320390120)

    What a stupid comment. There is one particular person that often posts on this forum under so many aliases, and sometimes as anonymous, that it does not matter what ID he uses. His crap is so recognizable, that anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows who he is. Incidentally, Peter H is not overly revealing either, but who really gives a toss. RS maybe.

    Yes you Mike. RS -- 01/11/09 (in reply to #320390304)

    There once was a greedy fool... named Ne wIn

    Stupidly thought Telstra shares a shoe-in

    "If you knew what I paid you'd cry"

    Was his repetitive lie

    This clown...doesn't know what he's doin'

    100,000? Yeah, right. Anonymous -- 29/10/09

    "The NBN will compete against Exetel's Country Broadband, this service apparently has 100,000 regional customers connected via HSDPA."
    There is no way on earth that Exetel has 100,000 customers on HSDPA connections.

    Linton is the crazy old uncle that everyone listens to just to laugh at - he regularly makes crazy predictions and is soon proven wrong, not to mention his inability to tell the difference between megabits and gigabits.

    100,000 HSPA? Peter H -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390097)

    Nowhere in the article or in John's statements anywhere has it ever been suggested that Exetel has 100,000 HSPA customers. He has 100,000 customers, most of which are on ADSL/ADSL2. They also have a good HSPA service, certainly much better than Virgin's which is under-resourced (on the same network!), seemingly because Virgin have not purchased enough bandwidth.

    Exetel's services are inexpensive - you're not funding Irishmen on national tv and buses/trams, nor fence signs on football stadiums.

    They provide an inexpensive, quality service, and both offer and accept no BS.

    Idd Anonymous -- 30/10/09 (in reply to #320390117)

    They only have around 6000 HSPA customers, and that's total. They haven't given any indication as to the metro/regional split for quite some time either.

    John Linton Anonymous -- 29/10/09

    Who in their right mind cares what this fool says, He has trouble running his own miserable ISP.

    Hehe.... Anonymous -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390118)

    And we all know who you are Peter H????

    Anonymous? Peter H -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390109)

    An unsubstantiated statement from someone too gutless to step outside the Anonymous cover.

    got anything else to say? Anonymous -- 29/10/09 (in reply to #320390119)

    Mate do you have any decent arguments or is that all you have?

    Linton is well known in the industry to have a mouth faster than his brain. He is EXTREMELY opinionated and not always in a good way.

    The fact is that unlike his big competitors he is running an ISP on ice thin margins so he will be at a much bigger disadvantage moving to the NBN than them, hence why he is so anti NBN.

    But hey feel free to cal lme unsubstantiated like all the other posters who were anonymous..

    How many DSLAMs does exetel have? Peter G -- 29/10/09

    I won't tell you how many DSLAMs exetel has in the field? I won't tell you how much spectrum they own.

    You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out which country Honest John is putting his money into.

    The Lintons are to be avoided Anonymous -- 30/10/09

    I wouldn't listen to anything this guy says. I know several people, myself included, who have been abused and heavily censored by the Lintons on the Exetel forums for complaining about poor service (the only place to do it because no one will answer your call).

    Another cut price ISP looking to make a quick and dirty dollar.

    HAHA what a joke. Dan -- 30/10/09

    The only one who can do it is Telstra. It would do it cheaper than a bloody government.

    I absolutely love this comment, as much as I'd just like to rant this guy is a moron with a idiotic opinion, insinuating that TELSTRA of all companies would do something cheaper is a joke in itself. Not only that, but we all saw the proposal they put forth for pricing when they got kicked off the NBN Bid. Give Telstra the NBN HAH. Like they need any more of a monopoly then they already have had for many many years.
    The government building the NBN is a godsend. It will finally break bloody Telstra's monopoly and hopefully make for some more fair pricing and better internet in Australia.

    If Telstra's track record of the past 10 years tells us ANYTHING it's that they NEVER do things for a cheap price and even with the expensive price they still have some of the worst customer service for any Telco.
    Handing the NBN to them would be like cutting the wrists of Australia's Telecommunications industry and future.

    Government monopolies Anonymous -- 30/10/09 (in reply to #320390159)

    If you think a government monopoly is going to be any better than Telstra, you'd better think again. They will not be answerable to the ACCC or anyone else. And government is hopeless at running businesses!! Haven't you learned anything yet!!!???? Why do you think Hawke/Keating/Howard wanted to privatise all government businesses?????
    I hope you pay lots of taxes, because that is what is going to fund a cheaper internet by government!!!

    Re: Govt monopolies Anonymous -- 01/11/09 (in reply to #320390186)

    So you prefer Telstra having a monopoly over the last mile? Do you really think they are more efficient? That's an interesting but naive perspective. It's even more interesting that you think it is a good idea to have multiple wholesale providers running fibre around Australia, and have the consumer pay fopr all the extra costs. Sure, the initial price of the NBN will be high, by so was running electricity to every town. The NBN is an absolute necessity for Australia to move forward.

    Additionally, having worked in government departments as well as private business, there is not a lot of difference in efficiency. Your opinion that just because it is funded through taxes means it is inefficient is wrong or at least outdated. I and my co-workers are no less efficient just because we moved from the private to the public sector including those who have always worked in public sectors.

    As someone who works in the IT industry I welcome a govt owned and operated wholesaler. I am looking forward to broader connectivity, more retailer competition, and increased performance. At the moment we have three or more providers with fibre running past our premises, as they are all duplicating costs their prices are prohibitive. Sound like a good case for a govt run monopoly wholesaler? I think so.

    @ re Gov monopolies RS -- 01/11/09 (in reply to #320390325)

    100% correct Anon.

    But what you are up against in relation to comments here, are greedy disgraceful TLS shareholders, commenting on behalf of their portfolios, to the detriment of all others Aussies.

    Yes they are sickeningly disgusting!

    Fool Anonymous -- 02/11/09 (in reply to #320390334)

    Yes it all boils down to those greedy Telstra Shareholders. You know the ones who for some strange reason don't want the government to steel their money. Hey RS news flash there are many Telstra Shareholders who are ordinary people not big industrial capitalists and funny enough they are also Aussies. Perhaps if you cannot contribute useful information to the discussion you should hang up your keyboard.

    Fool indeed RS -- 02/11/09 (in reply to #320390371)

    Yes, it all boils down to those greedy Telstra Shareholders. Correct, lol!

    Oh greedy shareholder, had you cared to read most of my comments you will find that I actually have said numerous times that the vast majority of TLS shareholders are good people. Most are hard working mums and dads, probably never had been or have been since, involved in the market.

    However, there's also a small band of TLS shareholders (now plus one including you), who come here to lie and artificially praise absolutely everything Telstra does, sycophantically, because they would sell their souls and do and say anything for their shares to increase in value.

    These people have made literally thousands of comments and not once have any of them "ever" criticised Telstra whilst simultaneously bagging every other Telco/ISP.

    I even challenged them on NWAT to show me just "one comment" from any of the 4 main spokespeople, who had commented over 1500 times at NWAT, where they had bagged Telstra or praised an opponent. I even promised to leave and stop commenting.

    They couldn't find even one. 0 from 1500+.

    These people have even been so disgracefully low as to compare their "share fight" to the ANZACS. They have blamed the boat people and even compared themselves to Jesus Christ.

    So if you want to be one of them, greedy TLS shareholder, good for you!

    Exetel Anonymous -- 30/10/09

    I use to use Exetel whilst the plans were great value I found them to be a horrid company. Rude staff and woeful performance.

    Good luck

    yup Anonymous -- 30/10/09 (in reply to #320390167)

    Same here. In my area they offer by far the best value/dollar. So far I've had no troubles with their service that wasn't caused by Telstra screwing something up. Certainly NOT the provider that should be in charge of also screwing up the NBN

    Ah John, you've done it again! Anonymous -- 30/10/09

    I love John Linton's rants. He's the Wilson Tuckey of the Australian telecommunications industry. Thanks for the laughs, John!

    What c r a p from Exetel Mel Sommersberg -- 31/10/09

    Tasmania seems to be getting on with their leg of the FTTH without Telstra's overbearing presence. If a bunch of two-headed people with six fingers on each hand can do it then those on the mainland should be able to cope.

    Break it down Anonymous -- 02/11/09

    Gee some pretty predudiced comments here. Let's have closer look at whats been said.

    The pollies made some election promises there was no way in hell they were going to meet. .... tick

    Because of the NBN none of the suppliers are investing in copper anymore and that's holding back the growth of broadband further........ no surprise there.... tick

    Ripping Telstra up is only going to make them stronger because the amount of compensation they'll get they plough back into whatever networks they have left (mobile, spectrum and backhaul) and smash the opposition there.......... tick

    Can Mike Quigley and the government build a network cheaper and quicker than Telstra could.......... well athough Telstra's track record is mixed in this regard it shits all over the governments, any government ,when it comes to infrastructure projects...... tick and some of the posters on here, jeez, it's about Telstra's ability on time and cost to build, not their price to the consumer. Read the article FFS. In terms of efficiency I'd take Telstra over any government agency every day of the week.

    The only place he falls over is on HSPA, as per the poster on HSPA = viagra put it very well, it will only every be part of the picture given inherent limitations in capacity. HSPA will never serve the complete demand for bandwidth in the cities.

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