By the numbers: fast, cheap and subsidy free

When scanning the globe to see what country is offering the best, fastest and cheapest fibre broadband plans, it looks like you can't go past Hong Kong. Could competition deliver the same value in our major cities?

City Telecom's Hong Kong Broadband Network now boasts 1Gbps broadband speeds with unlimited downloads, priced at just US$26 per month. A few months ago, it had more than 600,000 subscribers connected at speeds of over 100Mbps. And it did it without any government subsidy. By comparison, here in Australia, iiNet is selling 100Mbps on the government-funded NBN, with download limits, for almost three times the price ($80).

Of course, Hong Kong has lots of people crammed into a small area — 6480 people per square kilometre, three times the density of Sydney and four times that of Melbourne.

The UK (where high-rise living isn't common) provides another interesting comparison. Over there, BT was structurally separated, and their network division has been rolling out fibre with some government subsidy. Both BT and Virgin are offering fibre connections at 100Mbps for £35 ($53). Adjusted for purchase power parity (to reflect the cost of living), it works out that we're still paying well over what the poms pay.

Not only are we expensive, we're also slow to get it. Years of protestations about who will build the infrastructure has also slowed us down. Meanwhile, in North America, almost 8 million homes are already connected to fibre, with 22 million homes passed. Prices are high for the vanilla service, but TV bundles for not much more are almost certainly helping uptake. We convinced ourselves that we were front runners on fibre a few years ago, but we were all talk. Now, it seems, we're quickly slipping behind the rest of the world.

This table shows the best prices that we found (you might do better) from major providers in various countries around the world. Whichever way you look at it, the NBN is providing an expensive solution. The US is the most expensive, except when we look at lower speeds — you still pay a premium for higher speeds over there.

(Credit: Phil Dobbie/ZDNet Australia)

What makes Australia unique, of course, is our attempt to drive fibre out to 93 per cent of the country. It's a noble aim, but it comes at a cost, with the cross subsidisation of those regional areas pushing up prices to major metropolitan areas. International comparisons seem to suggest that the level of that cross subsidisation could be extremely high.

The alternative approach is to allow competitive build in metropolitan areas, and only subsidise areas that are not contestable. We'd hope that would get fibre prices in our cities to something comparable with the rest of the world. To achieve the same price outside the cities would mean a far higher level of subsidy, of course, but at least the price would be transparent. The argument would switch from "Do we need an NBN?" to "Do we need an NBN everywhere?"

Instead, we seem to be aiming for a uniform pricing across Australia. If the argument is that the NBN will make us internationally competitive, shouldn't we be aiming for prices that match the rest of the world, at least in some parts of Australia?

Updated at 2:57pm, 9 January 2012: corrected the price for iiNet's NBN plans (thanks Paranoid) and removed reference to Bell Canada's 100Mbps plan, given the company's fastest plan is 30Mbps (thanks sjl and Catherine).

Talkback

You are using the wrong numbers in your table. The $129.95 per month is not the NBN plan pricing. You've gotten your numbers from here http://www.iinet.net.au/fibre/plans.html Which are NOT NBN plans.

iinets NBN plans are here: http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html

Same speed and almost double the quota of the plan you've shown for $50 per month cheaper. Please change this article.

ParanoidParanoid January 9th, 2012
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You expect accuracy from an article this slanted?
What the article doesn't address with its legitimate question is that NO ONE is WILLING to build new networks except telstra and they won't share. AND history has shown they will charge first borns and kidneys for access.

idryssidryss January 9th, 2012
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It would appear he actually does recognise that $130 isnt the NBN number... since he lists an even more innaccurate number ($160) for iiNet's NBN in the first paragraph.

I also like the little bait and switch where he talks about population density of Hong Kong compared to Melbourne or Sydney, and then mentions "the UK (where high rise living isnt common)" as though that mens the population density is more comparable... except of course if we do the comparison in the same way, London has a population density of 4978: 2.4 times that of Sydney and 3 times that of Melbourne.

It also says that $160 is "almost 7 times the price" of $26, when it is either 6.1 or 6.4 depending on whether you account for exchange rate.

And then we're expected to trust him to be able to calculate purchase power parity?

It seems like pretty much every point made in the article is based on bad facts or bad math.

CaffieneCaffiene January 9th, 2012
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I agree, however he is leading readers to believe that the table is showing NBN pricing.

"This table shows the best prices that we found (you might do better) from major providers in various countries around the world. Whichever way you look at it, the NBN is providing an expensive solution. "

The $160 price he said is also on the page I pointed out in my first comment, it is Fibre 7. 100/40, 180GB data for 159.95.

ParanoidParanoid January 9th, 2012
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Well, we can expand a little bit, then, if we want a comparison that covers the same proportion of the population.

(Disclaimer: Wikipedia based statistics)
Sydney and Melbourne cover about 38% of Australia's population. The equivalent population for the UK would be 23,660,000. If we look at UK conurban areas this equivalent population can be found with a minimum (not average; minimum) density of over 3800.

In other words, the equivalent population in the UK has a population density 1.84 times that of Sydney, while iiNets $70 plan is only 1.32 times the price you list for BT and Virgin.

The difference in urban population density is still significantly greater than the difference in price. It certainly looks far from clear that iiNet's plan is an unreasonable price based on the comparison.

CaffieneCaffiene January 9th, 2012
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Oops. Replied to the wrong post. That should be re Phil's point about London being 13% of the UK, obviously.

CaffieneCaffiene January 9th, 2012
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Caffiene,
Let's remember London accounts for just 13% of the UK population. Most of the population live in smaller cities and country areas. Australia is one of the most urbanised countries in the world.

phildobbiephildobbie January 9th, 2012
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You're kidding me right?
Great Britain covers an area of 229,848km2, whereas Australia covers 7,617,930km2. Now I know you'll say that most live in urbanised areas but just to connect these urban areas with the infrastructure required is an enormous feat. Although we may be urbanised we still have a population density far less that Great Britain, Hong Kong or any other country. Add on the fact that the population of GB is over 60mil which is close to three times our population in an area smaller than than 1/3 of New South Wales!

It is ridiculous to do comparisons with other countries that are building broadband networks because each country is unique. Not only in population density, size, country area, but also cost of living, needs and uses of the network.
This article is so ridiculous that its laughable in its content.

nsomniacnsomniac January 9th, 2012
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Learn your geography mate

Around 70% of Australias population live in our capital cities (Sydney, Perth, Darwin, Adelaide, Melbourne)

The same cannot be said for places like Britain, where as Dobbie stated, London holds just around 13% of their population

Australia is one of the unique countries where the majority of our land is filled with nothing and majority of our population lives in centralised cities

deteegodeteego January 9th, 2012
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Learn you geography mate.

"Australia is one of the unique countries where the majority of our land is filled with nothing and majority of our population lives in centralised
cities".

Correct and incorrect.

As nsomniac rightly mentioned the majority live in urbanised areas. It is in fact the vast majority of nothingness which is centralised, herein lies the geographical build problem.

Tell me how far is it from Sydney to Perth (and what's in between) as opposed to London to Liverpool?

This is why nsomniac is again correct imo, as comparisons to overseas is primarily useless and ridiculous.

BTW again learn your geography mate, what about poor old Hobart?

BetaBeta January 9th, 2012
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Thats not really an issue

Fibre links between cities are incredibly cheap, and have existed in Australia for decades

The main cost in fibre is last mile labor, thats not really an issue with national links where you basically have to deal with just 2 last mile installations (one on one end of the cable and one on the other) which can be providing gigabits of data between lets say Sydney and Melbourne

The cost, per metre of fibre cabling is very cheap.

deteegodeteego January 12th, 2012
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Paranoid, you're right, the figure was wrong and has been updated. Sorry for the mistake. But the comparison is on 100Mbps speed services, so the lowest iiNet price is $80 (not $50), with download limits and no phone service. Let's remember NBN's wholesale pricing is speed based.

Many of the other companies listed include calls and unlimited downloads - but I have ignored that because we know international bandwidth is a unique issue for this part of the world.

This is not an anti-NBN piece idryss - the question is, should we cross subsidise outside the metro areas, or just subsidise them? The latter is more expensive but cuts prices.

Say, for example, you had 100 homes, half cost $100 to provide a service to, the other half cost $50. Do you charge them all $75 (no need for government subsidy but half are paying 50% over the odds) or do you charge half the $50 and subsidise the rest ($50 X 50 = $2,500).

The opposition would say, the latter, but it's a much more expensive option. But the first approach raises the cost for everyone, which could mean we end up paying more than some countries overseas.

The third alternative is that people in regional Australia pay more.

phildobbiephildobbie January 9th, 2012
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Thank you for making the update. I expected it to be a simple confusion of the fibre page and the NBN page, so no harm done.

Also, I did say $50 cheaper, not that it cost $50. Anyways, thanks for the correction.

ParanoidParanoid January 9th, 2012
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iiNet's NBN1 plan at 100Mbps is $70. NBN2 at $80 is not their best price.

CaffieneCaffiene January 9th, 2012
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This article also ignores international transit and where content is sourced from. Hong Kong users would likely get the majority of content from Hong Kong and China sources (based on language), so there would be significantly less international traffic than Australia. UK and Europe have both a shorter undersea cable length to the US, and greater numbers of users to drive economies of scale for the usage of those pipes.

Since Australia has a small population (relatively speaking), a low population density, and a long, expensive submarine cable run to the US (where the most of our non-local content is sourced from), this all is factored into the cost of our plans, which must be taken into account when doing a comparison.

simonmsimonm January 9th, 2012
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Simonm, that's why I ignored the fact that our plans are capped on downloads, whereas elsewhere they're not. The substantial cost is the NBNCo access charges.

phildobbiephildobbie January 9th, 2012
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Underlying cost of the last mile depends on how many metres you have to go to get to each customer. Hong Kong and other very dense environments have very low numbers of metres to cover compared to covering 93% of Australia. If we said only 70% or 50% coverage with Fibre here (which would cause owling and gnashing of teeth here) then we'd have a much much lower cost. People previously have given examples in Amsterdam where you can get more than a customer per metre compared to Australia where you might only get a customer per 20-30m or even higher. The last 23% to get to 93% from 70% plus wireless plus satellite costs a great deal of money extra. We need to stop worrying about the rest of the world.

themmcthemmc January 9th, 2012
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More research is needed for this article

The BT Openreach access prices for FTTH are found here

Up to 100Mbit/s / 30Mbit/s "Transition product" (including Simultaneous Provide) UK436.32 pounds pa

Notes:
The “Transition product” is only available in conjunction with an existing WLR or MPF service

So you have to pay additional for BT wholesale line rental as well as the BT fibre access

The BT fibre 100Mbps/30Mbps access price is UK436.32 pounds pa or UK36.36/month = $AU55.05/month

The NBN access price for 100Mbps/40Mbps is $38/month - much cheaper than the UK

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=M80QNeH46o4g6JKGD604vTypQOKfNn%2Beo6vmoVhAOBZZ6rNZujnCs99NbIKJZPD9hXYmiijxH6wr%0ACQm97GZMyQ%3D%3D

sjlsjl January 9th, 2012
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That's true - but prices for 100/15 are considerably lower.

I think I have opened a can of worms. It is, of course, hard to compare like for like, so perhaps I shouldn't have tried.

The question remains, should we cross subsidise or just subsidise - and that's a debate that doesn't seem to have been had to any extent in the public forum.

phildobbiephildobbie January 9th, 2012
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"The question remains, should we cross subsidise or just subsidise - and that's a debate that doesn't seem to have been had to any extent in the public forum."

If the pricing is comparable then it doesnt matter.
Australia will probably never be able to match Hong Kong or Singapore.

If NBN pricing is similar to FTTH pricing in the UK, Canada and the USA (English speaking countries) - which it is, then it doesnt really matter.

sjlsjl January 9th, 2012
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Uh, it is not similar

Verizon FIOS provides uncapped data, I have yet to see an NBN plan provide uncapped data for a similar price

We have uncapped ADSL2 plans, from the likes of TPG (and others), but for fibre its a different story

deteegodeteego January 9th, 2012
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I still think your article is underhanded in its title and the beginning of the article. You put it as a guise about subsidies but your real point that you're trying to bring across is the fact that private companies are rolling out fibre products subsidy free at a lower cost. So although you're saying this isn't an anti-NBN article, it has a political twinge to it by underhandedly comparing fibre products in other countries with the government NBN.

You make these comparisons fully knowing that it is impossible to compare these products to the Australian landscape. If you allowed the major companies to roll out optical fibre at their own leisure then of course you would find that they would start in Sydney and Melbourne and only move into profitable areas and there would be no need for subsidies because fibre would never reach into regional and rural areas anytime soon.

So, I agree that subsidies do need to be discussed but not at your subtle way of degrading the NBN itself.

nsomniacnsomniac January 9th, 2012
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The BT Infinity FTTH pricing is UK35 pounds + UK10 pounds line rental = UK45 pounds = $AU68

The BT Infinity FTTH speed is 100Mbps/15Mbps
The NBN FTTH speed is 100Mbps/40Mbps - more than twice the upload speed

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633

sjlsjl January 9th, 2012
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The Verizon FiOS pricing you are using is for 150Mbps/35Mbps.
(they dont have 100Mbps)
The next speed down is 50/20Mbps which is $US145.

Its worth noting that even at these prices Verizon FiOS is only available in the major city markets - you wont find anywhere near 93% coverage with Verizon FiOS

http://www22.verizon.com/Residential/Bundles/Landing/fiosinternet_ultimate/fiosinternet_ultimate.htm
http://www22.verizon.com/home/fiosinternet/plans/

sjlsjl January 9th, 2012
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Can you provide a link to the Bell Canada FTTH prices ?

I could only find FTTH 70Mbps/30Mbps at $C70
and FTTH 170Mbps/30Mbps at $C250

http://productsandservice.bellaliant.net/PS/nb/english/productsandservices/productDetailPage.do?bodycont=productsandservices%2fproductDetailPage.do?product_id=3419973&product_id=3419973&curbody=2§ion=2

sjlsjl January 9th, 2012
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Yes sjl - the US prices are high, but the incremental for TV is low, so that's clearly what's driving adoption. And, yes, they won't get anywhere near 93% coverage. I think in the UK they're only aiming for 75% or so. I got the Canada figure wrong - the fastest they have is 30 Mbps.

As Stormjr says below if we are to have cross subsidisation it would be nice to know the extent of it.

phildobbiephildobbie January 9th, 2012
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Thanks Phil

You should also update the BT Infinity FTTH to include the extra UK10 pound line rental - you simply cant buy the BT Infinity FTTH without paying the extra line rental.

The correct price in your table should be UK45 pound = $AU68

sjlsjl January 9th, 2012
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"As Stormjr says below if we are to have cross subsidisation it would be nice to know the extent of it."

I have no objection to that discussion.
But it is misleading to introduce the topic on the (incorrect) premise of ...."Whichever way you look at it, the NBN is providing an expensive solution."

Clearly thats not the case among English speaking countries such as the UK, Canada and the USA. The NBN pricing is comparable to the UK, Canada and the USA.

sjlsjl January 9th, 2012
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Even with the adjustments, it kind of clearly is the case when you talk about data caps

There isn't an NBN plan out there that offers a plan of the same value that TPG does, for example. In real terms TPG has the same value ADSL2 plans as those that you would find in Britain and America

deteegodeteego January 9th, 2012
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The real questions are, Will Telstra build Fibre (since they own the ducts), Will Telstra allow competitors to install in their ducts.
Are we going to have a repeat of the Optus Foxtel debacle where providers chase each other down the streets to massively overbuild in some areas whilst not providing services in other areas.
None of the anti NBN crowd have proposed any solutions for competitive broadband a service which by its very nature is a monopoly, it's quite clear that it's more efficient not to overbuild competitive wiring schemes, How does one make a monopoly competitive?
If we are going to have a national fibre policy and the Telco’s won’t build then what scale of subsidies are going to be required to incentivise them.
Most of the anti NBN crowd aren’t arguing about policy structures their arguing that fibre is unnecessary. It’s clear from international programmes that virtually no government elsewhere in the world believes that.
I believe that expansion of IPTV service sales will allow NBN to at least recover its costs even if construction cost blows out. That efficiencies produced by the NBN will produce substantial cost savings for consumers business and Government.

Kevin CobleyKevin Cobley January 9th, 2012
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I think the cross subsidizing is the way to go, it should be transparent though, if it cost's $50 in Melbourne and $80 in Bathurst and $120 in far north Queensland and that balances out at $75 for all then so be it, if the government has to subsidize it they will raise some tax, or invent the NBN because we can tax, and it will cost $5million so we will tax everyone $10million and give our selves a pat on the back with that surplus!

The NBN should be built to replace the old and dated copper, just think how many people are all stuck on pair gains with no broadband unless they want 3G or satellite!

StormjrStormjr January 9th, 2012
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Cross subsidisation is one of the most economically inefficient ways to provide bandwidth, because its done under the false premise that people in rural areas can utilise the broadband more effectively then densely populated areas, in which case districts will almost certainly benefit much more from lowers prices than the rural areas

The best way to provide cheaper bandwidth for such areas is government subsidy, not cross subsidisation. Increasing the price of broadband IT telecommunications hubs is just going to hurt Australia's digital economy

deteegodeteego January 9th, 2012
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Maybe the original post should also compare the cost of living expense in Australia vs the rest of the world. We pay more for everything here anyway, so why would the NBN be any different? In terms of trying to gain anti-NBN support, I'm sure the article will be of some use.

We have a cable rollout in Canberra which missed lots of suburbs, because it was in the too hard/expensive basket for the rollout. If I was to move house again, the availability of broadband services would certainly be a factor, just like a rural property the availability of services could affect your decision.

By making a uniform rollout to the majority of people it solves some of the problem. Imagine if we left the road building up to a private company. Unless they make a profit, it would never get built or be fixed.

watto23watto23 January 9th, 2012
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The comparisons are in real terms, which also takes into account our own wages

deteegodeteego January 9th, 2012
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interesting you chose iinet, a known premium isp. yet another natuional isp, exetel(yes budget isp but still national and not exactly small fry) is ignored.

exetels cheapest 100mbps plan is $49:50(so $50 rounded up as you are doing) with voip.

so how does that stack up in your chart ?

maryc2maryc2 January 10th, 2012
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Since most of the cost of building a new network is labor how about a comparison of Chinese and Australian labor costs to determine is we get a cheaper product?

Everyone screams about cross subsidy when they think that they will get a cheaper price...

If I live next to an NBN node do you want me to I pay 0.2c a month for the cost of laying a 20 meter fiber to my door and some one in a suburb 20km away to pay $50 for the cost of laying that 20km cable? Cross subsidies are a fact of business, and so long as they are not unduly onerous I could care less.

How about doing some research and coming up with some figures to show what the NBN would cost (per user per month) if only 30%, 50% & 70% of Australians were connected? Railing against the 93% may make good headlines, but how about some numbers? The difference might be less then you think (or more then I think), but that is probably to hard for journalism in Australia...

Paul KPaul K January 11th, 2012
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If a business does a cross subsidy model, thats fine, because often they won't be the only business around. I mean you can even use ISP's as an example, certain ISP's service the whole country and cross subsidise their plans, others like exetel reveal the real cost of broadband service in different areas (and charge accordingly, with exetel you pay more if you are in a regional area)

Of course the real difference is choice, you can choose your ISP. If you don't mind the cross subsidisation, you go with the likes of iiNet, or you could go with exetel, or Telstra, or TPG etc etc

The issue with NBN however, is that its a monopoly, and the sole provider of fixed line internet, it is in fact the highest level in the cost chain (which means you can't do anything to change the pricing). So if we are increasing the cost, of lets say 80% of the users using internet (which is quite likely the case since such people would live in our city areas), for just 20% of the population, and that 20% being very unlikely to actually use the internet to the same degree as the 80%, than that is whats called being inefficient

The real point also, is that our internet prices, ever since Telstra started offering ULL/LLS (and it has been regulated by ACCC) has been sharply dropping since 2006, there is a nice graph which shows a nosedive of this happening. The NBN, as is stated in their corporate plan, is actually going to stop this trend (and possibly increase it again, its their aim outlined in the ARPU, they aim to increase the cost that a person pays for broadband).

You will find that most first world countries do not cross subsidise at all, and if so only in very rare cases. Thats why you see most economists having issues with NBNCo's model (note, they DONT have a problem with governments using subsidies to lower the cost of broadband in such areas, its a problem with specifically the cross subsidisation model)

deteegodeteego January 12th, 2012
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5 hours ago by rt luvs youh on Google shows we're killing our language

they probaly always lie about in4mation bout people

5 hours ago by rt luvs youh on Google shows we're killing our language

$6.7million, now we know the price to the tax payer of a government IT project clean up. You've got to ask the question don't you: why o...

6 hours ago by Takenforgranted on Vic scraps HealthSMART system

why some mp4 files with higher frame width can not be played in my 3m mp180??

6 hours ago by cyrusmann_ymail.com on 3M MP180 Pocket Projector

Unfortunately there is NO such place as Nelson's Bay. It's Nelson Bay!! Probably not your fault for the error, as your Media Release prob...

6 hours ago by Nelson on Ausgrid network to talk back to operators

@Wow - thats one of the benefits of the iPad (and tablets in general). They are one of the most generation neutral products ever made. ...

8 hours ago by Gav on Westpac board goes paperless with iPads

and why is this such a super idea? http://www.itnews.com.au/News/301778,thousands-affected-in-billing-cloud-breach.aspx oh, yeah, right...

9 hours ago by btone on Fed Govt steps up on shared cloud plan

Wow, seems like a fantastic initiative that helps to save the environment. It must have taken a lot of convincing to get the Board to mov...

9 hours ago by Wow on Westpac board goes paperless with iPads

I'm a payed up lib member who has voted Labor in the last 2 federal elections. I had the previlege of speaking to Mr Turnball 3 months ag...

10 hours ago by spazmanaught on NBN contracts may be left alone: Turnbull

Good to see Westpac's concentrating on the real IT issues !

10 hours ago by jeff_syd on Westpac board goes paperless with iPads

I am not sure how this issue becomes an attack on Mr Turnbull. But I guess he is fair game. In any event I would have thought a Ddos woul...

21 hours ago by Doubt on National Botnet Network coming: Earthwave

I still use 98SE. Windows ME was an abortion in a bucket and Vista was ME without the bucket. My screen may look boring, but I jumped str...

21 hours ago by Treknology on Microsoft admits Vista was 'cheesy'

This story has been voted 10 times in the last 24 hours!

21 hours ago, CeBIT 2012 opens: photos

This story has been voted 15 times in the last 24 hours!

21 hours ago, Lenovo ThinkPad 3G tablet (32GB)

Well I don't know what they have done with their EFTPOS machines, local one in WA Coles Express I used this morning and I normally do "ch...

22 hours ago by harryinthesoup on Coles ditches PINs in payment pilot

6.7 M last ditch attempt - interesting - The Auckland region (population 1.4 mil) has estimated to have spent less than this in total ...

1 day ago by debsteele on Vic scraps HealthSMART system

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