Upwardly Mobile by Jo Best

In Upwardly Mobile, chief reporter Jo Best gives you her perspective on how mobile and wireless innovations from around the world will affect Australia.

When is broadband not broadband? When it's Next G

Posted by Jo Best @ 9:53 70 comments

In telecoms, Telstra is no 800 pound gorilla. It's an 800 pound colic-ridden infant, irritably throwing its toys out of the pram when it doesn't get its own way.

Whether you agree with what the government's been doing on broadband policy or not, it's become a hot electoral issue -- things are definitely moving. There's a fibre rollout hopefully coming to urban areas, a WiMax deployment for the bush and for everyone else, there's the Broadband Now Web site: a site devoted to showing those in Australia's remotest areas how they too can get connected by whatever means possible.

The whole point of the site, according to Helen Coonan et al, is to give those not in the know about their broadband options a list of providers who meet government criteria on price, speed etc (quite what's the point of an Internet site for those who don't have broadband to start with is beyond me, but let's gloss over that for the moment).

Initially, when the site was set up, Telstra's BigPond ISP didn't make the list as it didn't meet the criteria set down by the government: a 512Kbps download speed; a 128Kbps upload speed; a 1GB monthly data allowance; and a total cost including connection fees of not more than AU$2500 over three years.

Telstra had a word with the government about the omission. The telco didn't like being missed off the who's who list. They deserved to be there too, dammit, they said.

"They [the Department for Communications] spent the last two days telling people it is Telstra's fault because we do not have a service that fits their arbitrary definition of a metro comparable service. The department's convoluted criteria for 'metro comparable' services excludes basic broadband (256Kbps) and all of Telstra's higher-speed broadband services," Telstra said.

Telstra didn't meet the government's criteria, for good or ill, yet the company thinks it should be included on the list. Why all the aggro from Telstra about not making the grade for a government Web site? Does its marketing department need a helping hand these days?

But no. Telstra has inveigled its way onto the Broadband Now list. By lobbying, complaining and presumably, threatening to hold its breath til it turns blue, the telco will soon have its offerings included, albeit with the disclaimer that such services are not metro comparable.

The government should be ashamed of itself for giving in, Telstra equally so for its daft request.

Next G mobile network, Telstra proclaimed, should be also counted as a broadband service. Sure, Telstra, sure -- keep telling yourself that. Telstra's Next G network might be arguably the most comprehensive 3G coverage in Australia, but there is simply no comparison between what we know as broadband and what Telstra's 3G delivers.

If you were considering using Next G as your broadband network of choice, you're going to need some seriously deep pockets. For what's laughably termed a "super fast" connection of 1.5Mbps, with a measly 3GB cap, there's a monthly fee of almost AU$185.

Next G may be up to the job of being a data carrier, but it doesn't hold a candle to "real" broadband offerings like ADSL2+ in speed and, more importantly, price. With such poor caps and expensive plans, it's the ugly sister of the broadband market.

It's fine to expect to pay a premium for connectivity with mobility, but it's embarrassing to be asked to pay one so high. If Telstra sticks to this kind of pricing, 3G will remain the mobile broadband that never was.

Advertisement

Talkback 70 comments

    Telstra 3G wireless broadbandJim Brander -- 12/07/07

    You might dig a little around the reliability of the wireless network.
    It has trouble finding the network, it drops out from the internet connection while maintaining the 3G connection, you need to pull out the device and start again, making it difficult for programs with a time consuming login.
    Trying to ftp a large file, it kept timing out - had to revert to dialup to upload the file.
    Overall, after using it for a while, I find it too unreliable to be useful. This aspect is more important than its pricing.

    Next G WirelessAnonymous -- 15/07/07 (in reply to #320082596)

    You do need deep pockets on this a plan I have at 200mb cap a mere droplet compared to overseas plans like the uk or us even nz have better service and value for money. OZ could reap more customers if they follow suit with the rest of the world

    BB in remote areasAnonymous -- 12/07/07

    And what about BPL (BB over power line) technology. It is being used, tested, implemented in Australia?

    BPLCharles G -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082601)

    BPL is currently going through a commercial trial in some parts of Tasmania. However due to pricing I don't think it is going to succeed.

    BPLTom B -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082614)

    The condition of the existing grid infrastructure and additional infrastructure required to support BPL are considerations that will probably make utilities decide not to implement the service.

    Zero Coverage in Hervey Bay!!!Anonymous -- 12/07/07

    Yes you heard correctly! I live in the centre of Australia's fastest growing city (presently around 60,000 people) and I get zero broadband access, zero GPRS mobile phone access, zero Next G coverage, zero ports available in the exchange even if they could provide broadband and get this, zero access to broadband because my BigPond account is currently sitting on the old Telstra accounting system and therefore can't be upgraded to broadband until it is moved to the new accounting system. However I do have a Telstra landline and BigPond Dial-Up service, which by the way runs at around 4Kbps. Attention Senator Coonan, it's time to rethink the strategy for our country. Wouldn't it be cheaper to have one national network provider which sells data to all of the major IT&T companies including Telstra! That way the government can dictate good standards and ensure that they are maintained. And then the IT&T companies can compete on a level playing field.

    You are rightAnonymous -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082602)

    I think the government shouldn't have sold the whole lot of T$ company. They should have retained the infrastructure part under government custody and privatised the upper service. We can't see T$ company improves their service after T3 because they are still at monopolying position, further more there is no political power to affect them directly now.
    Any way, lots of people are abandoning T$, and we should see the company changes or their share sell off in the near future.

    RE: Go AustraliaAnonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082622)

    I'm glad Sydney Lawrence isn't my financial advisor... there are plenty of T2 shareholders who disagree that Telstra shares are worth buying. The only reason to buy telstra shares are for the large dividends they payout, and telstra has to borrow money to pay them. Telstra shares will hit a new low if they don't get the FTTN deal.
    Bigpond pricing is disgusting for medium to heavy use and that is where us consumers are heading with the likes of youtube etc. Enjoy the decline in PSTN revenue and the decline in broadband profits as people escape the 24 month trap that is Bigpond.

    Go Australia.Anonymous -- 16/07/07 (in reply to #320082622)

    Sydney Lawrence - chairman of the Telstra Active Supporters shareholder group?

    How's Telstra's public campaign to overthrow the regulator going Sydney?

    Telstra sharesRod Sexton -- 17/07/07 (in reply to #320082622)

    Well Sydney (is that your real name?) you might do a lot worse than buy T$ shares but not for long. The day gets closer to when we will be able to get rid of our fixed line altogether and then T$ can try and survive by extracting every cent they can from the vac-heads who remain with them due to some false sense of loyalty. T$ is the most expensive product in all different servicesand usually far from the best. Why people support them amazes me. But there again, so do the latest political polls. The sooner theyintroduce IQ parameters before being allowed to vote the better.

    Telstra sharesAnonymous -- 24/07/07 (in reply to #320082840)

    Rod, they should also introduce IQ tests before being able to post comments.

    The number of posts would plummet

    Telsta Great?!!?!? HAHAHADaunte -- 28/07/07 (in reply to #320082622)

    You Sir, are an idiot.

    Telstra manipulate the market with bogus press releases that they never intend to follow through on, force prices upwards, gouge their competitors for access to the infrastructure network, gouge consumers for their retail packages...

    All in the name of profiteering to force up margins to drive up the share price that you so love.

    TelstraAnonymous -- 14/07/07 (in reply to #320082606)

    I am one of those Australians who built what is now Telstra. Why do we need overpaid, arrogant Americans to run what was an Australian icon? Why also are we subjecting ourselves to the dictates of Alcatel UK who are advising Sol & co on IP Centrex which is Telstra's secret weapon.

    Next G not broadbandQuijibo Simpson -- 12/07/07

    Jo, I am wondering if you have even used the Next G network yourself?

    I was recently on Hamilton Island and had a JasJam paired via bluetooth to my MacBook Pro - I could not believe how close it was to being at home on a 512k service. Sure, theres some extra latency due to being over the air but it was fast enough for surfing and great for downloading large files.

    Sure, its not cheap. But I'm not aware of any wimax available yet and, when it arrives, I doubt it will compare to adsl2+ either in terms of speed (latency and throughput) or price - since you are using that as the benchmark.

    What she says is correct...Troy White -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082603)

    ... by definition broadband really isn't broadband until you get into the multiple megabits per second range.

    Your Home 512k service is not "broadband" either so you can't go comparing that to Next G.

    Telstra "think" broadband starts at 256k which is quite frankly a joke.

    Broadband will arrive in Australia on the day that 256k and 512k plans are no longer available as an option.

    Why even use Telstra?Michelle Allen -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082603)

    Why do people insist on even using Telstra? I currently use 3's X-Series for mobile broadband and it's so much cheaper ($30/month for 1GB) and the same speed as Telstra's Next-G. The only thing it doesn't have is coverage over the whole country, but they're getting there.

    Not insistAnonymous -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082610)

    Actually you can see more and more people are leaving Tesltra. There is no "people insist on even using Telstra". Myself have dumped Telstra land line - I replaced it by VOIP with Wireless connection (not Telstra) at home.

    What a typically ignorant responseAmanda Carmody -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082610)

    Why use Telstra? Ha! Are you joking? Are you really, really , really that serious? Hellooo....have you ever left the east coast? Some of us **have no choice**, that's why. And believe me, I know, a recent 20 min net session via NextG cost me $412!! What is the point of even offering a service like this and worse, pushing it's business use, when the cost of sending 8 documents (which is what businesses do) cost hundreds of dollars.

    Telstra data chargingJo Best -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082613)

    It seems a few people are accidentally finding themselves running up AU$400 or more in data bills when using Telstra's Next G. Has this happened to you? If so, e-mail in and let me know at edit@zdnet.com.au -- we'd love to hear from you.

    Casual users overlookedIan Bennett -- 18/07/07 (in reply to #320082671)

    Looks like both 3 and Telstra 3G are overlooking the potential of the market for those requiring casual connectivity.

    Recently between houses, I was without a fixed connection. My mother who had come to visit wanted to get the phone number of a local florist. No problem I thought, just connect via 3G. The cost to do nothing more than lookup a florist via yellowpages.com.au? $18!!!!

    Furthermore, given I was likely to be without fixed internet for around a month I figured I would sign up for the much more reasonable monthly plan, still expensive for a measly 1GB but good enough for the essentials. No signup fee was good but Three's response was that it would not come into effect until my next billing date which was in 3 weeks time. Of course they told me I could still use it at the casual rates. $18 to look up a phone number - I just laughed - thanks but no thanks!

    I dont pretend to know the business models for these companies but it seems to me that if they can provide services at certain subscription rates then they can afford to offer data at similar rates casually. Of course there is a little extra overhead and some encouragement for people to subscribe is to be expected but the gap between subscription and casual rates for three is ludicrous.

    There are plenty of times people need that casual access, but at these rates even the business user has to think twice about whether the cost can be justified.

    Personally, like many people I have fast internet access at home and wherever I work. There is just no need for me to fork out for an inferior broadband solution on a monthly basis (I pity those for which this is an only option). There are probably occasions where it would be handy to access the internet whilst not at home or work but at the casual prices charged by Three, it is unlikely that they will see another cent for data charges from me.

    Perhaps the fact that 3G is for some a viable last resort broadband option will save it from going the way of other handy but way overpriced services such as ISDN and WAP.

    Is this a bag Telstra session?Peeved Off -- 24/07/07 (in reply to #320082671)

    I am really getting sick and tired of everyone simply bagging Telstra and others defending. Can we simply discuss facts?

    Thats disgusting.James Watt -- 14/07/07 (in reply to #320082613)

    Amanda Carmody
    "And believe me, I know, a recent 20 min net session via NextG cost me $412!!"

    This is the exact reason why Tel$tra should never be allowed to be put in charge of Australia's broad band future with a fttn roll out....
    I feel sorry for all people that have no choice of a real provider...

    Why argue?Colin Watson -- 18/07/07 (in reply to #320082613)

    We can all argue till we're blue in the face, but what's the point of it all really? Do you control Telstra's business strategy? How about Optus' decisions? Can you dictate to Mr Howard what he should be doing and what he shouldn't? Put your money where your mouth is and purchase or don't purchase a product or service. So you won't be able to download a Justin Timberlake mpeg file to entertain yourself (your viewing time is still slower than downloading time). Who cares? Not the young teen without parents who has to sleep on a concrete footpath. We're supposed to be living in the 'lucky country'. Do we really believe that and can actually appreciate the simple things in life like walking along a beach and spending time with our family and friends without being told what to wear or where to worship? Or will the fastest broadband or motor vehicle bring us endless joy?

    RE: Why even use Telstra?Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082610)

    I'd love it if I could get away from Telstra! I've seen 3's service and love it, only problem is I can't get it here :(

    I don't *choose* Telstra, like many other Australians, I am FORCED to use Telstra. That's where they get their money from. Can't move away from them for landline - and only choice for 3G - So I'd rather just go without 3G until someone comes into the market with an offering that people can actually afford.

    Telstra, Don't forget, you're a private company now, so don't go crying to the government when things go wrong.

    Where are the competitors? Making $ in the city, of course!Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082692)

    Why don't you simply tell Telstra where to stick their telephone? Ooh, then you'd have nothing at all would you? Ironically, you criticise the only company willing to provide services to you and talk up the 100's of competitors, who snub their noses at you and are treating you like a leper, because you aren't profitatbale enough for them to be in your area. Strange.

    Thank you too for bringing up - "Telstra, don't forget, you're a private company now, so don't go crying to the government when things go wrong". I agree with you wholeheartedly. There are those who keep saying "Telstra should have been split"! Maybe so, "but it wasn't" - so don't ponder on what should have been, understand what actually is. Also, funnily, there are still a lot of people out there who can't seem to understand that Telstra has been sold and is now actually private. So yeah, you're right imho, as a private company, Telstra shouldn't be treated any differently to any other private company. If the government awards grants to OPEL, so be it. Conversely though, you can't have your cake and eat it too. So Telstra, as a private company, should have hampering regulations (not fair on any private company, I'm sure you'd agree) reduced or eliminated, so that all Telcos can now get on with running their privately owned business, in a capitalistic but competetive way. Hooray!

    I disagree with part of your post.Troy White -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082704)

    [QUOTE]So Telstra, as a private company, should have hampering regulations (not fair on any private company, I'm sure you'd agree) reduced or eliminated[/QUOTE]

    No they shouldn't have restrictions removed YET!!!
    As long as they continue to operate the HARDWARE that all the other competitors need access to to provide their own services, they should be monitored closely and made accountable for their actions.
    Once an alternative network (FTTN or other) is up and running and ALL COMPETITORS HAVE EVEN ACCESS TO then and only then should the "hampering" regulations be removed

    no; telstra is NOT the only company...Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082704)

    Telstra is NOT the only company interested in supplying service to consumers out of metro areas. However you will find as Telstra do own most of the backhaul to regional areas they charge a VERY pretty penny for any competitor to access those lines. those "100s of competitors' you claim are snubbing consumers are only doing so because of the lockgrip Telstra has over the network,

    As previously commented, and IMO correctly, this comes back to the issue of Telstra being sold off as a whole without splitting the infrastructure to ensure a fair access regime to whichever network is extant. Were those backhaul lines independently operated you would find prices for competitive access are .. well... competitive and those "100's of companies" WOULD be offering services in those regional areas.

    As it stands now they simply cannot do so unless they like to be a business that will spend itself out of existence in 6 months... probably less. Which would leave the customer right back where they started - stuck with Telstra.

    Telstras idea of capitalistic comptetition would be along the lines of obliterate all others and then jack up the prices. Be careful what you wish for. For my part i do not believe an unregulated market - at least in terns of aussie telcoms - is possible or workable. There must be minimum standards etc etc.

    Have a look at the US 'deregulated' market where in mobiles you cant port your mobile from one carrier to another (iPhone anyone?) and there are prohibitive termination fees. in the wired market a zip code was considered 'competitively' covered if at least ONE connection was available in that code. There are other signs that market doesnt 'work' but those are to me big signs such an idea is detrimental to consumers to say the least.

    RE: no Telstra is not the only company.Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082713)

    Telstra has a lockgrip over the network!

    So competitors should simply build their own and rid themselves of this monster known as Telstra - easy! That's what happens in the real world. When Aldi came to Oz they didn't set up shop in the back corner of Woolies, they put their hands in their pockets and invested.

    Oh but it's not as profitable for these competitors to do this as it is in the city. It's really not profitable to be in the bush at all! So instead of going cap in hand to the ACCC, to force Telstra to reduce access pricing again (if it is as intrusive as you say) let's just pretend these country people don't exist and keep blaming Telstra - nice!

    RE: ALDI as a comparison whats next?Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082717)

    So you compare building a few big stores in the most profitable areas of the country and selling high margin no-name foodstuffs to digging thousands of kilometers of trenches and putting in billions of dollars of fibre and call that a fair comparison?

    I am one who certainly does hope that the FTTN is built by anyone other than Hellstra, one who is interested in pricing it fairly enough to encourage not only comeptition but increased uptake that will increase returns and fund the next wave of technology.

    As it stands Hellstra have failed to invest in keeping thier current gifted (yes I know they paid for the network but it wasnt really expensive to them was it?) network up to scratch and they are now engaging in tactics to attempt to have a new network protected while they finally spend the money in one hit that could have been outlayed over the past 10 years.

    Yes spend $4B over ten years and have the network fully upgraded and up to standard and we wouldnt be argueing over any of this who gets to spend it in one go. There would be no Hellstra crying about how they now spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year, 'patching' the poor old decrepid network.

    The company has been run poorly and is still being run poorly, and to say, but give us everything Mums n Dads invested in us and we are Austrlaian doenst cut it for me. I dont give a rats about who wasted thier money on the company, its run bad it deserves no holiday, once the market is a level playing field and Hellstra have to compete they will find that its harder to make money when your not the owner of the ball... sometimes you just have to give better service and prices.

    RE: ALDI (ah the irony) - lol!!!!Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082723)

    lol!!!

    You say in relation to ALDI - "building a few big stores in the most profitable areas of the country and selling high margin no-name foodstuffs" ...

    Surely you jest? Can't you see the "irony of ironies delving within this disparaging comment"? Apart from the foodstuffs part this is exactly what your precious competitors (to Telstra) did and most still do. They set up only in the most profitable areas and resell. This is the rort they are trying with all their might to hold on to and exactly why they won't invest and want to stall Telstra from building FTTN.

    Ha ha. Good one! Perhaps we should now refer to Telstra's competitors as ALDI's?

    The rest of your comment may be relevent, but I really don't know, as I was laughing too much! I did see Hellstra which is a very clever play on words, isn't it?

    I rest my case, thank you for my closing argument - I won't be back after that one, I prefer a challenge!

    I don't think ALDI resellJames Watt -- 14/07/07 (in reply to #320082730)

    [QUOTE]"They set up only in the most profitable areas and resell."[/QUOTE]

    I don't think ALDI are forced to resell Wollies products at a price set by wollies.

    NEXT G - Hamilton IslandTom B -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082603)

    This is one of the premier domestic/international travel destinations in Australia and you have to resort to 3G for internet access. No wonder there is a dirth of domestic travel in Oz. Ham Isle is comprised of 3-5 star locations, there ought to be free wireless in all areas and wired in every room, or minimal rates.

    At least you were resourceful enough to do this on your own, 99% of the world would be incapable of configuring all that.

    Priced For ShareholdersJason Torrento -- 12/07/07

    Come on Jo, give them a break, we wouldn't want the shareholders missing out on fat returns.

    Telstra don't want to miss out on pickpocketing the uninformed, and bending them over and giving them the royal wallet scraping.

    Telstra could price NextG services at competitive rates, but why? When they can simply be greedy, and shape the market to their scam?

    DCITA should list them, but with a VERY CLEAR indicator that by signing with the plans listed, you will be paying through the roof for a service that is of the same quality, and the same speed, except, with more value, elsewhere.

    Finding Telstra: the Ultimate Delay-fishAnonymous -- 12/07/07

    This reminds me of the story where the Telstra executive dumped on the Apple iPhone("There's an old saying -- stick to your knitting -- and Apple is not a mobile phone manufacturer, that's not their knitting," Winn told AAP. )

    What then has Telstra (and the Goverment) been doing in the last two decades ... knitting apparently!

    The reason that Australia, which used to be near the top in Internet penetration some 15-20 years ago, is now lagging is a combination of Telstra and Goverment lack of vision. The infrastructure component of Telstra should be Government owned or controlled (like roads) and everybody should be allowed to compete. I and many others are still upset about the cancelling of a promised broadband project in the early 1990's in Gungahlin ... not wise to upset a technologically literate population and a very dumb move considering the rapid movement to broadband elsewhere. Of course I am still waiting to have access to REAL broadband (>10Mbps) ... fortunately I have access to gigabit at work for my research. Others are not so lucky ... so much for the Lucky Country!

    Once they wake up (Telstra and the Government) maybe they'll do something useful ... Hmmm ... the blue of the Telstra logo reminds me of that fish from Finding Nemo ... the "delay-fish" .... just Telstra aint as cute!

    OK, so what have Telstra's competitors done in 10+ years?Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082624)

    I believe Optus have been here in Australia now for over 10, maybe up to 15 years? Also other telecoms competitors have also been around for quite sometime. So to be fair why don't you ask what have "they been doing" also (before being handed $1billion that is)? After all, they've all had plenty of time to invest in our future too, haven't they? Yes. it's easy to blame "the big fish in the pond" - in your speak. I'd say these competitors have also been knitting, but without wool, as the wool belongs to Telstra. So whilst ever these so called competitors can get cheap access to this wool, they won't be willing to and may never invest in their own. In fact, I'd go as far as to say, THEY will do what ever is necessary to keep the status quo (delay advancement) and stay within their
    "cherrypicking comfort zone". Wouldn't you if you were them? Minimal investment = handy, easy profit!
    Telstra's FTTN proposal has been ready to rollout within hours of approval, for about 2 years, but we've had to wait for the g9 propsal. Why? Because the members of G9 were sitting back knitting - in their cherrypicking comfort zone. However, it finally dawned on them, that with Telstra now being a private company, the same easy money, cherrypicking deal, may no longer apply to any new infrastructure as it does to the old copper infrastructure. So the party was maybe over!!! They'd be "forced to do something, even invest some of their own money and actually earn profits for a change". However, typically it took a leisurely 18 months (delayed - whilst still in the comfort zone, of course) to present a half baked proposal which "still needs Telstra's infrastructure (cherrypicking mkII) to proceed". Obviously Telstra won't let that happen, as no business ever would - including Optus, Primus, AAPT etc, if the roles were reversed. So it appears obvious, that whilst Telstra are ready, and have been for two years, it's actually these competitors and not Telstra who are holding back "our" technology, to simply ensure they can remain as long as they can in the very profitable comfort zone.

    LOL... Then why T$ cries against OPEL?Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082697)

    T$ was scared to death shen OPEL got the fund to deploy wireless network. And G9 is willing to build FTTN network too! Are you begging tax payers continue to support this arrogant Gauger? no way!

    this is what the competitors have done in 10 yearsAnonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082697)

    put up 7 satellites, installed 350+ ADSL2+exchanges ,partnered with ELDERs TO bring true BB to the country , and this is just what i know about Optus, the OPEL net will enable any carrier to access thier net at a price where each carrier can actually make a profit, consumers will have a choice $60 for wimax or $180 for NextG I know which one i will choose

    RE: this is what competitors have done...Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082709)

    Wow, is this the Australian arm of SingTel who did this? If so, I stand corrected they have been busy, all this and knitting with Telstra's wool too. But seriously, has any of this translated into services? All this and according to most rural comments, still no real availability (other than Telstra) in most other than capital cities or regional towns?

    Optus state - "the SingTel group is Asia's largest telco company with operations in 20 countries worldwide"! So why the need to re-sell on Telstra's back (up until recently anyway)? I can understand smaller telcos getting a leg up but Asia's largest telco? Obviously because it was easier and more profitable for them to do so. If they wanted to they could fund FTTH not just FTTN, tomorrow, surely? But choose not to (fair enough it's strictly a business decision. i.e not profitable - 21 million people, vast area = headache). Just like Telstra chose not to switch on ADSL2+ where others didn't already have it, for fear of regulations being implemented - another business decision, which all businesses have to and do make!

    As for GOPEL, (Goverment, Optus Elders) let's not get too carried away just yet? Here's what WiMAX Day June 21, 2007, wrote of the proposal: - "While the ambitions of the Australian government are noble, its plan is so radically uneconomical that it is almost reprehensible. This gross misuse of taxpayer funds will result in a network that is obsolete before being built, suitable only for distracting kangeroos and dingoes as they hamper across the wild Australian outback". Now one would assume WiMAX Day would know a liitle about WiMAX, surely?

    So... you know which one you'll use, have a nice wait! I hope WiMAX Day are wrong for everyones sake.

    RE: this is what competitors have done...Anonymous -- 14/07/07 (in reply to #320082725)

    Yep, you stick with Hell$tra and if they get to build the FTTN and get the monopoly back $ 180 for the next G will sound like small change.
    Just for mobile calls you pay, with hell$tra, up to 10 X more then in some other countrys and that is with competition.

    RE: this is what competitors have done...Nick -- 16/07/07 (in reply to #320082725)

    "they have been busy, all this and knitting with Telstra's wool too."

    Hold you're horses... this wasn't TELSTRA's wool to start with. TELSTRA monopolise the entire last-mile network of this country - not because they built it - because australian tax payers built it (ah-la Telecom)... This network was taken from "everyone" and handed over to Telstra on a platter and the reward to the Australian tax payer for handing over the keys to their self-made monopoly was... (drum roll)... $180 a month next G access... yeh, cheers...

    I'm sure if other carriers had been given to the same gift Telstra was bestowed they'd be more than happy to no longer need to knit with "telstra's wool".

    in ten years all they have done is chased the profits.Aaron -- 24/07/07 (in reply to #320082709)

    Do you see Droptus truly selling satellite services? NO

    350+ Exchanges compared with 2800 Telstra ADSL exchanges. paying ACCC dictated rates for the copper instead of investing in their own copper.

    Refusing to sell to new clients unless the client is in their own cabled areas.

    Taking $960,000,000 from taxpayers to build a network that will cover about 60% of the land mass already covered by Next G.

    What is Optus doing?rod sexton -- 17/07/07 (in reply to #320082697)

    I will tell you what Octopus is doing - they are including all uploads in their plans, the same as Hellstra! Next they will charge for anti-spam, and if they had a directory they would most likely charge you a fee not to put your name in it, as Hellstra do with their white-pages.

    The G stands for GaugingAnonymous -- 12/07/07

    Right on Amanda!
    Next G would have to be the biggest money gauging exercise Australia's every seen. I recenty downloaded the new Yoober program to avoid getting whacked for SMS costs. Luckily I've got a good data plan with a rival carrier - my mate who was on telstra got pinged a fortune. 3G is right. G for gauging Australians

    Telstra NextG is NOT broadbandMartin -- 12/07/07

    I have a Samsung A501 NextG phone and the data cable and software to connect it to a PC or laptop. I gave it a go when I moved house and waiting for my ADSL2+ service to be re-connected.

    The best that I could get out of it was around 236kbps. I don't know what this "super fast" broadband claim is based on, but for me at least, it's pie in the sky.

    And it's expensive pie to boot.

    Thanks AmandaPhil Bargearse -- 12/07/07

    For at least bringing some much needed attention to the mongrel ridden and bastardised monolith that is Telstra, it's deluded minions and it's pathetic and laughable attempts at regulatory free rides.

    T's Next G product is an overpriced, under performing product, designed and delivered for not much more than T's agenda for profit gauging.

    I'm hugely disappointed the Governments "broadband now" site caved in for Hel$tras entry on the list,
    there offering of overpriced fraudband doesn't belong anywhere, least of all on a website that's meant to help and not mislead potential consumers.

    Can anyone do betterAnonymous -- 12/07/07

    Telstra seem to be the only company who are interested in building a wireless network as broad as it is . For the people who comment the service is a rip of perhaps you should consider the fact that no other isp is interested in having the same or larger infrustructure

    hmmmmAnonymous -- 12/07/07 (in reply to #320082646)

    Telstra are the only ones in a market position to roll out something of this magnitude. Why they should rip us off with these prices is a different story though. NextG uses approximately 80% of existing CDMA base station equipment.

    NextG is merely a mobile network that is capable of providing data at reasonable speeds. It's still no magical saviour to the broadband problems in this country.

    Next G GougingAnonymous -- 13/07/07

    "Anonymous" wrote "Can anyone do better?"
    I believe that there are lots of companies who can do better, but Telstra is preventing them from effectively entering the market.
    When the OPEL deal was struck recently, the first thing Telstra complained about was another company duplicating what it already had. Seems nobody else is allowed to build where Telstra has been, and if you do build, you certainly can't connect to their infrastructure. (ULL/FTTN ruckus)
    Main problem is that the government was too quick to bank the Telstra share subscriptions before they woke up to what they were actually selling.
    If they'd split out the infrastructure into a separate company first before they sold the rest, then we wouldn't be in anywhere near the sort of mess that we're in now.
    But then, if you'd stripped out the infrastructure, what would Telstra's shares be worth? $0.20? 3/5ths of naff-all?

    And for those of us who can still tell the difference between "lose" and "loose", I think that what people who have been referring to as "gauging" by Telstra, really mean "gouging".
    "Gauging" is what you do the the market before you apply the "gouging" - which Telstra does with shameless abandon.

    Yet another Telstra beat up - ah to be a tall poppy!Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082667)

    Telstra aren't and can't prevent anyone from entering the market, be serious. Anyone who wants to invest in "their own" infrastructure (i.e. a real and "total" investment which doesn't include the continued leeching off Telstra's infrastructure) can do so! The problem is, no one wants to "go the whole hog", they simply wish to continue hanging from Telstra's coat tails. If they are serious, stand up and be counted and propose a "stand alone - Telstra free proposal" - but no! Also Telstra didn't complain about OPEL duplicating , they complained about the governement using $1b of our (yours and mine) money to subsidise areas of duplication - big difference. Why not use the $1b to better hospitals or roads? No, this government simply wanted to make cheap political gains/point scoring to appease the likes of you and to attempt to dent the Rudd juggernaut. And yes, yes, I know your response - Telstra was also built/subsidised by the government! But however, the big difference is that Telstra has since been sold (yes sold, check the dictionary, if you can't quite grasp the concept). Then you say "you certainly can't connect to their infrastructure" - too right (again check with Mr. Webster - re: the meaning of sold)! Instead of simply applying the tall poppy syndrome, because it's Telstra, put yourself in Telstra's situation and be truthful just for a moment - would you sit back and let your competitors simply waltz in, use your equipment at minimal cost (which you and you alone have to maintain) and subsidise them in what primarily is taking your clientele? Truthfully now, well would you or would you protest, like Telstra are doing?

    So you are favour of monopolying?Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082690)

    Do you think T$ worths monopoly position in this country? Tax payers funded T$ company many years agao, now we have the right to fund rival to break the monopoly, whether you like it or not, Mr T$.

    Leeching?Anonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082690)

    DSLAM investments, which are what i assume you are calling faux investments, ARE real and "total" investments. Nobody leeches anything from Telstra: they pay a royal fee for the privilege of leasing their age-old infrastructure which would be stupid, to say the least, to duplicate. Telstra themselves "leech" off Optus's satellite and cable networks to provide their Foxtel service to hundreds of thousands of customers where their cable network doesn't reach - which is a lot of places. I believe they also "leech" off British Telecom's network in the UK, and Vodafone and TNZ in New Zealand. And they pay some, if not all, of these companies less than they charge to access their infrastructure in Australia, which I note, they only sell because they are mandated to. Clearly the leeches aren't Telstra's competitors, but Telstra themselves.

    RE: LeechingAnonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082703)

    Thanks for your reply! I certainly enjoy hearty debate.

    1) "They pay a royal fee" you say? Is this the same royal fee that is continually being reduced to anything but royal, by the ACCC? Well, of course these competitors (I won't say leeches, as it appears to upset) can choose not to lease Telstra's "ratty old bits" and open up a bait and tackle shop? So why don't they? They choose to pay Telstra this nominal and ever decreasing fee, obviously because it's highly profitable to simply re-sell! If it wasn't, profitable for any and all to do this, we wouldn't have more ISP's per capita than almost anywhere else!

    2) "for the privilege of leasing their age-old infrastructure which would be stupid, to say the least, to duplicate". - Ah, the old each way bet! Privilege of leasing - stupid to duplicate. Again the price keeps dropping thanks to the ACCC. Surely if it's age-old, the upkeep will be increasing, therefore the pricing should increase accordingly, to cover costs?

    Maybe what we need instead of this age-old infrastructure is FTTN? Let's award that to the G9, who can then (as they didn't propose a complete network of their own) " pay a royal fee for the privilege of leasing Telstra's age-old infrastructure" - are we going in circles here?

    Moving on. So tell me, just how do Telstra and Optus/BT/Vodaphone/TNZ come to agreement on pricing for Telstra's "leeching"? Through the proper and recognised channels of negotiation (which would make this a business deal - not leeching) or through a forced price fixing by the likes of the ACCC (which if so, I would agree is leeching) like Telstra's competitors are doing here?

    After all, let's face it, this is the crux of the argument. Telstra don't have a problem with competitors accessing, but simply believe the access fees forced upon them by the ACCC are inadequate and claim they do not cover costs (if this is true, shouldn't they receive more, surely?). Conversely, the "competitors" want it for as little as possible, preferably free, I'd guess?

    RE: LeechingMarty Hamilton -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082714)

    This is actually a blog for mobile and wireless so we're way off-topic, but I'll humour you.

    "Is this the same royal fee that is continually being reduced to anything but royal, by the ACCC?"

    No. The fee that is continually being reduced is the one for ULL. The royal fee being referred to is the ADSL port rental charged by Telstra Wholesale.

    They can and doAnonymous -- 13/07/07 (in reply to #320082690)

    Have a look at how expensive it s to backhaul across the tasman to Tasmania. Compare the same rates once a competitive backhaul fibre link is switched on.

    There is a reason many ISPs (optus and IInet come to mind) whi have reduced their offering in Tasmania - purely because of the backhaul cost.

    Thats only one example - there are many other price and non price methods Telstra use to limit competitors. You are perfectly correct; were backhaul sensibly and competitively priced there would be no *need* to spend 1Bn on a network.

    But given Telstra would love to drop wholesaling altogether and is only doing so under sufferance (TPA) that expenditure has become necessary.

    You might also investigate how much it actually costs to go the whole hog and have a look at which aussie ISP can afford it? (I've deliberately excluded Optus there btw). IInet is 3rd or 4th from memory; and they on their own certainly dont have the cash reserves and deep pockets needed to 'roll their own'.

    You might also wish to look into the difficulties even the G9 proposal is facing to 'go the whole hog'. It is not as simple a scenario as you posit.

    Tasmanian backhaul too expensive? Lay your own and stop complaining.Curtis Bayne -- 14/07/07 (in reply to #320082716)

    I've heard this argument a few times, and it's starting to wear very thin.

    If PIPE Networks can lay a fiber to Guam for a mere $200m, then surely another provider (I'm looking at Singtel/TNZ) can dig (or swim!) deep for Australia and lay another trans-tasman fiber for what is, in the scheme of things, a relativley small investment. It's significantly cheaper to lay a fiber in the water than it is to dig a trench, and I'm sure a few 2.4Gb SDH/SONET cores with IPoS/MLPS wouldn't go astray for those lowly netizens on the other end of the current 2.4Gb/155Mb lightrope.

    But then again, isn't it just so easy to sit back, relax, whine and let the problem be Telstra's, instead of doing anything about it yourself?

    it IS being laidAnonymous -- 14/07/07 (in reply to #320082750)

    my POINT was , which youve sailed *completely* past, is the comparative cost NOW of Telstras pipe (without competition) will be significantly higher than the price telstra wil lcharge once there is competition.

    If youve paid ANY attention to telcoms in aussie you will *know* there is another pipe en route already. That was not my point tho - it was the price delta between a competitive landscape and the monopoly one. Its not about a matter of 'the problem is telstras' it is the matter that Telstra by their market behavour CAUSES the problem.

    Singtel/ trans-tasman fibreRod Sexton -- 17/07/07 (in reply to #320082750)

    They did it years ago - hence the cheap OS calls which Hell$stra have never really matched.

    The Consensus ReportAnonymous -- 13/07/07

    So what I'm reading here is that the common consensus is the NextG product is rubbish.
    - Limited to zero coverage in some key locations
    - poor throughput
    - unstable connection and dropouts (on the data/internet side)
    - insanely expensive
    And for this Telstra want to prevent competition in the marketplace (see recent Telstra whining about OPEL "duplicating" existing services).

    Seriously people, I've seen two-year-olds with better attitudes and more common sense.

    Next G Definitely Not For BusinessLuke -- 13/07/07

    So good to hear about someone else's frightening experience with NextG. I too managed to foolishly accrue a $400 data session, not realising that I had (wow!) a whole 5MB monthly download limit - what is the point in that? Why offer this to anyone? And I was only transferring documents to/from my business site whilst staying on the road as part of my work. I was also informed when signing up that a warning SMS would be sent to the phone if I approached my limit and this didn't happen. When I complained to Telstra the guy told me the warning SMS "is just a courtesy and there is no guarantee that you will get one" - huh? Someone pinch me! He also offered me $200 off the next bill which has yet to arrive (and I'm almost willing to bet that the discount won't be applied). As far as I'm aware the max data download (and as with all things Telstra, upload as well!) is 200MB per month for $79.95! I'd do this in a day! Gosh, yes it's true! Businesses really do send documents to each other, and at roughly 200kb per document (and more for graphic files) it ain't gonna take long to max out - but don't expect any warning SMS!

    Echoes of ISDNDavid Gibson -- 13/07/07

    Telstra did just the same back in the days of ISDN. They made it so expensive that while Americans were enjoying it in their homes, even medium sized companies in Australia could not afford it. Telstra has a lot to answer for with the economic damage it has caused in this country by holding back essential services.

    3G Only Broadband ChoiceAnonymous -- 13/07/07

    Well it turns out that in my suburb in Adelaide 3G was the only broadband option available to me. There is no cable running passed my house, and the phone line can only handle 28.8kbps and I didn't want to pay for satellite service. So I'm now stuck on 3's 3G for 12 months (anything but Telstra)

    Dont choose TelstraAnonymous -- 14/07/07

    Telstra is not the best choise for anyone, low income earners, single partents, families who want security and peace if mind of their kids, Teenagers, adults or tech heads. Telstra is simple more expensice, slower, lower download limits, terible customer service, and longer contracts.

    Forget Telstra people. Wake up!!! Look elsewhere!

    Does Telstra play nice?Anonymous -- 15/07/07

    Without any competitors the 3G will be overprice and small caps. For the people who think that Telstra will play nice without ACCC stepping in are mis-leaded. Look at ADSL, Telstra has sold there ADSL cheaper then the wholesale price twice in the past. Why would anyone go to a competitor, when the competitor needs to charge $30 more on top of today's plans to cover the Telstra charge. If all ISP's died, Telstra could charge any price and you have pay for it.

    aussie broadbandAnonymous -- 27/07/07

    australia is really shitty with broadband

    and telstras nextg tv ads are a joke

    telstra is so full of ****

    and i laugh at anyone who buys telstra lol

    Next G - The band aid technologyPatrick Bateman -- 29/07/07

    Yep, Next G certainly is crap. Drop outs, speed issues, poor software/drivers and prices that will make you laugh if your not already crying. Why such high prices? Sol says its because of the service you receive as a bigpond customer, the bonus content you get at bigpond.com - Its not the fact that too many people accessing the towers will make it even slower and more unreliable? Nooo, no way. Stay away from next G like the plauge, please for your own sanity. And Sol, go home, get out. You dont belong here.

    Losers can't be winners.Sydney Lawrence -- 30/07/07 (in reply to #320083556)

    Please seek help you poor demented souls that are so disparage Telstra. Your childish writings will have no effect on Telstra and will certainly fall on deaf ears. The thing that I cannot understand, is that if Telstra is such a horrible Company how come it remains No1 and beats the socks off it's opponents. For the real fun wait until Opel starts it's new service and the public revolts to it's low quality product and we see the billion dollar wastage by the Howard Government. See who'll be laughing then.

    I smell the stenchAnonymous -- 30/07/07 (in reply to #320083573)

    Yes, you have obviously used both technologies extensively to come to this well rounded conclusion. Telstra makes so much money because of its marketing machine and the ability to lie in the face of consumers without blinking an eyelid. Ring sales if you dare - ask them what 98% coverage means...and watch the blatently tell you its geographical!

    Same old spin...Anonymous -- 31/07/07 (in reply to #320083573)

    Mr Lawrence (aka Telstra Active Supporter #1),

    Telstra remains in such a good market position because:

    a) it holds a near total monopoly in rural/regional Australia.

    b) non-technical users do not research their options properly and trust Telstra to do the right thing.

    c) they use government funding for projects to prop up their bottom line

    d) they overcharge on every service they can legally get away with (and sometimes illegally)

    I really couldn't give two hoots whether the OPEL plan proves to be 100% effective in the real world or not. If it promotes healthy competition in my area and keeps my tax dollars away from Sol and his Amigos, then that's fine by me.

    That Spin in a nutshellPatrick Bateman -- 31/07/07 (in reply to #320083636)

    Thankyou. It truly is that simple. All the pro telstra posts on the internet could not defy any of your points Sir. This is fact.

    I reckon that...Drew -- 29/12/07

    Sydney Lawrence works for Telstra. No way you can call Telstra number one, they're only number one because the gullible and elderly think they've got great service.

    Nope. Telstra can **** off. And send Sol home on a boat. With none of his millions (or billions).

Add your opinion


Jo Best

Jo Best

News Editor

[+] Read bio

Latest Videos

Tags

Back to top

Featured