Upwardly Mobile by Jo Best

In Upwardly Mobile, chief reporter Jo Best gives you her perspective on how mobile and wireless innovations from around the world will affect Australia.

Get your hands off my Internet, Virgin!

Posted by Jo Best @ 10:31 52 comments

Getting into the finer print of Virgin's broadband-over-3G plans is a little like getting up close and personal with the office hottie and then discovering they have a personal hygiene problem.

Last week, Virgin launched two broadband packages using HSDPA -- high speed 3G -- as backhaul instead of the traditional ADSL used by fixed line broadband. One of the bundles interestingly also featured a fixed line-style phone, which also uses the mobile network.

While the data packages aren't on the generous side -- with either 4GB and 1GB monthly -- the pricing's fine, the idea's original and it's good to see an ISP or mobile network that isn't afraid of selling itself as a fat pipe, pure and simple.

The packages aren't aimed at the heavy user, so no online gaming with these bad boys, but using 3G rather than ADSL means a huge advantage in terms of mobility -- plug in the modem wherever you have a signal and you're ready to go. Because there's no ADSL involved, there's no associated installation costs or fussing, and no fees to pay if you move house which, as someone who has just moved into a flat without a working phone or broadband connection, I can really see the advantage of.

Yes, the traffic gets shaped if you go over your download limit but where doesn't it? And at least Virgin's piddling 128Kbps shaping is still a few steps up from the quite-frankly-embarrassing 64Kbps some ISPs offer.

So far, so blah. Once you're at the traffic shaping note in the terms and conditions, you'll also see another addendum: P2P traffic is shaped at 64Kbps at all times. Leaving aside the question of whether Virgin is technically capable of blocking all peer-to-peer applications, I find such a practice abhorrent.

It is up to an ISP to act as a fat pipe and that is all. Regulating the Internet is not up to the ISPs, no more than it should be up to landline companies to ban their users from talking about illegal or inappropriate matters on their handsets.

P2P traffic is, of course, not necessarily illegal and, I would suspect, it's not the legality or otherwise of such content that has caused Virgin to put its foot down on the issue. Perhaps it doesn't like the idea that its customers might be using their broadband packages for Skype and are therefore diddling Virgin out of voice minutes. It might also feel that having users on bandwidth intensive applications like BitTorrent could potentially slow up the network.

If either of those reasons are the rationale behind why Virgin has seen fit to stomp on P2P, then it has no business being an ISP, whatever transport mechanism it uses.

Broadband providers' outlooks and their networks alike should be robust enough to handle a little P2P; yet Virgin's behaviour on the issue would seem to indicate this latest 3G offering will not propel it to the ISP big league for some time yet.

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Talkback 52 comments

    Business Decision Anonymous -- 31/07/07

    For god sakes, someone shows a bit of nounce and delivers an innovating offering and you want to knock it, seemingly just for the sake of it

    Clearly this is aimed at ‘Mom and Pop’ type users not likely to be P2P users so Virgin have clearly made a business decision to shape this kind of traffic on this package. Its very clearly noted so no one could feel tricked or deceived. To state “I find such a practice abhorrent.” Shows some interesting priorities, I find Child Abuse abhorrent not a company making a commercial offering.

    This comment:

    “Getting into the finer print of Virgin's broadband-over-3G plans is a little like getting up close and personal with the office hottie and then discovering they have a personal hygiene problem.”

    And from your last blog:

    “It's rather like boasting you have the biggest wang in the world, but erectile dysfunction -- it impresses no-one”

    Make me really wonder about Zdnet really is where technology means business or is it where juveniles who didn’t make the cut for El Reg go?

    Renai Le Mai you are sorely missed…..

    What's wrong with pointing out the flaws? Jo Best -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083633)

    I'm not knocking innovation at all, in fact, I compliment Virgin here. The blog itself reads: "the pricing's fine, the idea's original and it's good to see an ISP or mobile network that isn't afraid of selling itself as a fat pipe".

    For those that missed it, I'll say it again: I think what Virgin's doing is, fundamentally, a good idea and a welcome shift in the market. However, ISPs seem to be a little too keen to sell themselves as 'mobile broadband providers'. As Virgin's struggle with P2P shows, HSDPA is not up to being a true broadband replacement just yet - if the service wants to sell itself as broadband, it should afford users all the same freedoms as fixed internet.

    In a few years' time, 3G and LTE will be a more than adequate broadband fat pipe and we'll all be P2P-ing our hearts out on it. That's simply not the case right now, as the restrictions show.

    As for the innuendo: There's no sexual suggestion there, I'm afraid - just the idea you're standing very close to someone. If you're reading more into 'getting up close and personal' than I intended, I would suggest that the problem lies with you looking for some sauciness that doesn't exist.

    Ignoring the point Anonymous -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083701)

    For you, who seems to have missed it, I'll say it again (as multiple comments have) there is a vast body of Internet users ( I would wager the vast majority) who have no interest in P2P!

    Jo I know a big techo such as yourself is no doubt busy downloading Linux ISO's all the time but most people just want web and email. Luckly for you there are other options as Virgins is not for techo's like yourself.

    Was I right Jo is that your P2P usage?

    'Abhorrent' Jo Best -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083701)

    "To state “I find such a practice abhorrent.” "Shows some interesting priorities, I find Child Abuse abhorrent not a company making a commercial offering."

    Oh dear. Anonymous, please keep a sense of perspective - this is a blog on technology, not on my opinion of the worst ills of the world. Upwardly Mobile is devoted to wireless IT, and makes no pretensions to cover a wider sphere and never has.

    Bringing child abuse into a discussion on wireless broadband rather shows some interesting priorities on your behalf - the two subjects are not comparable in terms of importance so please don't try to compare them. A very silly argument indeed, Anonymous.

    P2P throttling Dan Warne -- 31/07/07

    I think the reason behind P2P throttling has little to do with moral judgments or voice minutes (since Virgin already provides free unlimited national calls as part of this plan.)

    I think you have to be realistic about the limitations of wireless networks: there is a very limited amount of bandwidth to go round. The trouble with P2P is that it is capable of gobbling up 100% of bandwidth 24 hours a day, no matter how big the bandwidth is. That's less of a problem for wireline networks because if a customer is maxing out their individual connection, they're not going to affect other customers. But on a wireless network, if one or two customers in a cell are going flat knacker, other customers will get poor speeds.

    I'm not an advocate for ISPs limiting what customers can do on their connections, but I think in this case the P2P throttling is fine given the circumstances: it's a wireless network, Virgin has been very up-front about the P2P throttling before it has sold a single modem, and the pricing of the service is cheaper than ADSL (taking into account line rental and the calls you'd have to pay for if you weren't getting Virgin's unlimited landline calls.)

    The service may not be perfect, but then nobody's forcing anyone to take it up. I reckon it's good that there's an ISP out there offering 4GB of usage for mum and dad type users for around the same price you'd pay for many ISPs' $29.95 200MB - 500MB plans (taking into account the cost of line rental on top of that.) With those 200MB - 500MB plans, you won't be able to do much P2P before hitting a 64K throttle either!

    Bingo Geoff Spang -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083634)

    Bingo Dan. It's the same thing that hold back mobile television - these networks aren't designed to be saturated 24/7, and P2P is certainly very capable of that.

    Jo, as much as I wish we could paint Virgin as a bad guys on this one they are working within known technical constraints and have had made an appropriate decision for the situation. I doubt Skype came into it - alhtough I'm sure the thought of blocking Skype doesn't keep them up nights either :)

    Bingo Anonymous -- 02/08/07 (in reply to #320083731)

    Skype is not throttled at all for this product

    Good Summary of Why P2P is Throttled Anonymous -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083634)

    Excellent summary of the reason why the Virgin broadband offering will throttle P2P and perhaps a reason why other, wired ISP's are having to raise their prices

    It isn't to block Skype Anonymous -- 22/08/07 (in reply to #320083746)

    A final nail in the coffin - Skype works fine over dial-up so will be fine when throttled to 64kbps...

    bandwidth isn't a packet of tim-tams Brendan Borlase -- 31/07/07

    The p2p angle is pretty simple. Anyone with even a remote interest in topical events in the IT world cannot possibly miss that p2p is one of the single largest demand drivers.

    It's 24x7 nature results in the kinds of load HSDPA technology and the cellular network were never really designed for.

    Expecting a WiMaX like free for all, from a mobile network, is pushing it.

    As Dan suggests, load on each cell is a big factor here. And with respect, I honestly do not see any hard-core p2p user grabbing this with both hands.

    It's a fantastic offering in a market that desperately needs exactly this kind of revolution (particularly the voice + data angle) to kick the established juggernauts into some kind of actual competition and provide a (relatively) inexpensive option to those whom may lead a nomadic lifestyle or are not in a logical position for cable, ADSL and such.

    And what is with the sexual overtones? Un-cool.

    Knocking Innovation Anonymous -- 31/07/07 (in reply to #320083637)

    I read the article with interest. I am unable to get a landline because the previous tenants broke it and my landlord doesn't want the expense to fix it. Fair enough. I wanted to go wireless before just for internet but the costs were exhorbitant. now there is real choice.
    The mobility factor is what I want too. The download amount is fair (if you don't think so have a look at the major offerings).
    Shaped is good, one major player charges you 15c a mb.
    P2P, well not all of us want to do that. Many other players in the market provide service in that space.
    Stop mocking innovation.
    BTW, yes it is way uncool to use sexual inneuendo. Drop it and grow up.

    As mentioned above Jo Best -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083649)

    To reiterate:

    As for the innuendo: There's no sexual suggestion there, I'm afraid - just the idea you're standing very close to someone. If you're reading more into 'getting up close and personal' than I intended, I would suggest that the problem lies with you looking for some sauciness that doesn't exist.

    My intention is to entertain, not offend. However, this is a blog and purely my own thoughts, so please remember it will veer to the irreverent on occasion.

    Re: Knocking invitation Anonymous -- 09/02/08 (in reply to #320083649)

    To anonymous Know your rights, land line phone is seen as an essential service, speak to the rental tribunal. Legally your landlord must fix it, so don't just accept it. What if the power is out and someone has an emergency and you need to call an ambulance (and your mobile is flat too)? Internet phone services are not 000 guaranteed.
    Landline phone must be provided. Note that even if it is not connected to a phone company, and no line rental is paid, 000 will still work, this is a legal requirement.

    PS I agree it is way uncool to use sexual innuendo.

    P.S. Dan Warne -- 31/07/07

    I thought your intro about the office hottie was very funny and a good lead in to a tech story. Anything to combat the "Back in 1996, when Optus first introduced mobile data..." snore factor.. ;-)

    Bring on the sexual innuendo, I say.

    Dan Anonymous -- 31/07/07 (in reply to #320083650)

    Innuendo and humour is all well and good and has its place (as mentioned earlier 'The Register' does it, but does it well) but this is meant to be a business targeted site. This kind of stuff doesnt play too well on Firewalls/proxies etc or even simply people reading over your shoulders in office. Todays comment wasn't too bad (although not v funny) but the 'wang' comment the other day was OTT.

    Lets be honest you wouldn't see it on news.com

    Quite right Dan Jo Best -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083653)

    You wouldn't see this on news.com, although I would suggest that's because they don't tend to cover the Australian broadband scene.

    Ah Jo... Anonymous -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083704)

    But they are a CNET Network and your equivalent in the US, but you knew that. I am assuming ZDNET Australia doesn't have a problem with them as you frequently run there content?

    I think the point is that they actually understand their remit and actually employ some journos who understand tech.

    Oh dear Jo Best -- 16/08/07 (in reply to #320083707)

    I'm guessing you missed the joke in the last post?

    get an idea Anonymous -- 31/07/07

    if you want to eat bandwidth with P2P please by all means stay off mobile broadband - the *real* users will thank you for it!!!

    yeah mat -- 01/08/07

    your making it out to be somthing it isn't.

    it is a 4gb service at 512k with line rental and cheap calls included. for $60 with isdn like shaping

    telstra basic adsl 256k with 200mb (.2gb) and line rental plus calls on top is $59.95 without discounts. with 15c mb over use charge

    which is better?

    whence off peak usage Anonymous -- 03/08/07 (in reply to #320083687)

    Visiting from the Silicon Valley, I shutter to think
    it would cost $1,000AUD to download an image
    of a DVD software distribution such as Linux here
    in Australia at the prevailing rate here in Sydney.
    $100 for 450MB of "traffic" is a what I paid for 3
    months of unmetered Internet services on cable.

    I guess I will not be upgrading my system before
    returning to the Information highway gridlock.

    Why P2P is Discouraged Boyd Chan -- 01/08/07

    The reason why P2P is discouraged is to reduce the potentially detrimental impact to other users on the same cell. P2P can be packet and connection intensive so to place a restriction on a wireless service.

    Dan Warne has already covered this off so I won't harp on.

    Other than that, it's a good article.

    Good Article? Anonymous -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083692)

    Why is it good when you yourself have stated there is a very good reason for P2P to be limited? That fact makes the whole article redundant surely?

    Upwardly Mobile Ned Flanders -- 01/08/07

    Jo, I hope you have thicker skin than me!

    Best is Better Sammi Leigh -- 01/08/07

    Lawdy, people, anyone that is not a technorati would think we'd all forgotten about humour, you know, Anonymous... I heard it was popular in the late 80's...

    Jo, you write well, it's entertaining, you pose an interesting question about the role of the ISP going forward and whether the current hidden agenda from numerous Govt and business lobbies is forcing businesses like Virgin to act as bandwidth police in order to limit the use of key offerings for arguably nefarious P2P purposes. Anyone able to get their thinking out of 0101010101010101010 might read between the lines and realise Best is not necessarily bagging Virgin or its offering, she's drawing a larger debate out into the open and providing (speaking for myself only) a bloody good laugh while she's at it. Having worked with numerous ICT lads over the years, I dinf it HIGHLY amusing as a ladette, that it is suggested saucy sidelines are so shockingly inappropriate because in my experience they are some of the most ribald in the business, honestly, one step away from havign calendar girls on the office wall and so incrediby happy to find a lass who is happy to engage in a bit of sporty spicy banter, possibly a rare thing for folk like Anonymous? If you had a humour lobotomy recently, I can appreciate the indignation but for the rest of you, get a grip, think a little more deeply about what is being written, drag your eyes up beyond the code and appreciate the job being done by Best, which is better than many absolutely rubbish blogs out there in this space. Hats off Jo and don't apologise for being a good writer with a sharp wit and a funny turn of phrase!

    to Sammi Leigh Anonymous -- 01/08/07 (in reply to #320083724)

    well said!

    p2p Anonymous -- 01/08/07

    A review was done on the product and the traffic prioritisation was not enforced. However the allowance is on the low site but perfect for a mom and dad users.

    P2P? Anonymous -- 01/08/07

    I am SOOOO interested in getting this service, but I wish to god someone would actually tell me what this P2P is that you're all on about.

    P2P? Sammi Leigh -- 02/08/07 (in reply to #320083750)

    Try checking out www.whatis.com it's a great site if you want to find information about technology and what it's all about

    Definition clear as mud Anonymous -- 02/08/07 (in reply to #320083793)

    On the Internet, peer-to-peer (referred to as OK, thanks to Sammi Leight for directing me to whatis.com to find out just what P2P is, so as to hep me decide whether I want to use it and so assist in my decision about signing up to Virgin Broadband.

    However, I can't for the life of me imagine how or why I or anyone would ever have a need for such a weird thing, so can't see what all the fuss on here is about.

    For those just as bamboozled as myself, here is the definition:

    "P2P) is a type of transient Internet network that allows a group of computer users with the same networking program to connect with each other and directly access files from one another's hard drives. Napster and Gnutella are examples of this kind of peer-to-peer software. Major producers of content, including record companies, have shown their concern about what they consider illegal sharing of copyrighted content by suing some P2P users.

    Meanwhile, corporations are looking at the advantages of using P2P as a way for employees to share files without the expense involved in maintaining a centralized server and as a way for businesses to exchange information with each other directly.

    How Does Internet P2P Work?

    The user must first download and execute a peer-to-peer networking program. (Gnutellanet is currently one of the most popular of these decentralized P2P programs because it allows users to exchange all types of files.) After launching the program, the user enters the IP address of another computer belonging to the network. (Typically, the Web page where the user got the download will list several IP addresses as places to begin). Once the computer finds another network member on-line, it will connect to that user's connection (who has gotten their IP address from another user's connection and so on).

    Users can choose how many member connections to seek at one time and determine which files they wish to share or password protect. "

    http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid7_gci212769,00.html

    Can ANYONE on here PLEASE explain what I might need P2P for? (Waiting, waiting...)

    Thanks.

    What's P2P for? Anonymous -- 02/08/07 (in reply to #320083806)

    "PLEASE explain what I might need P2P for?"

    It's used for sharing files. When a lot of people all want the same file, if they all download it from one site at the same time, they're placing a big load on that server's connection. P2P reduces this load by connecting lots of people who have part or all of the file.

    Example of legal use -- when a new Linux distribution is released.

    Example of illegal use -- sharing copyrighted music and movies.

    hth.

    Why P2P, a legitimate reason? Anonymous -- 27/08/07 (in reply to #320083806)

    Anon wrote: 'Can ANYONE on here PLEASE explain what I might need P2P for? (Waiting, waiting...)'

    Wait no more for an answer.

    I am looking at a beta of some future software that will quite clearly benefit from P2P in a quite legitimate way.

    However you will have to wait for that.

    I think many here are underestimate the future legitimate use of P2P, and just lumping it in with a wide spread illegal use, or a minor use for Linux distribution is clearly not understanding it per such, and maybe should not comment with "P2P who cares?".

    P2P = Peer-To-Peer Max Payne -- 02/08/07

    Think of Peer-To-Peer as a big leechfest. Everyone has access to your stuff, while you have access to theirs.

    You might also use Limewire, thats a P2P program.

    Sounds fine to me Anonymous -- 02/08/07

    If Virgin want to provide a good value service which allows web, email, and phone but not p2p then let them do it. I doubt their business plan does floats without the p2p limitation. I would much prefer to have the option they are proving than for the current state where everyone is the same.

    Good Deal Anonymous -- 02/08/07

    I think this is a good deal. I been trying to get ADSL in my area but my application got rejected by Telstra. Something about no capacity.
    The plan is much better than any other wireless plans out there in Australia.
    You get to try the product for 30days.
    I don't like the idea of 24months contract but I think this is worth it.

    I am an IT professional and I think the plan is perfect. Its not for mums or dads only. Anyone can use it.

    Who cares about P2P. Better to rent DVDs then to download movies using P2P.

    The deal is good but hopefully it does what the company says.

    what about movioes/music that you actually (legally) BUY??? Anonymous -- 02/08/07 (in reply to #320083796)

    Does P2P throttling mean that you can't even PAY to download a TV show, movie or record?

    RE: what about movioes/music that you actually (legally) BUY??? Anonymous -- 03/08/07 (in reply to #320083811)

    I think downloading movies should be ok.as long as you are downloading them directly from the website instead of individuals computers in a P2P network.

    Stop Whinging Anonymous -- 06/08/07

    Your theft of copyrighted material (be honest with us and yourself, it's not all Linux ISOs) makes everyone's Internet more expensive. Not only bandwidth but switch and router capacity isn't free either, you know.
    Get a life, go to JB HiFi, their CDs and DVDs are dirt cheap. Looking for something obscure? Go to your local indie record store and spend a few hours looking through their collections.
    You might actually meet some REAL people who share similar interests.
    P2P is not a right. If a company (Virgin) actually has the intelligence to realise that P2P is going to cost them money, more power to them, and take your criminal intentions elsewhere.
    Here endeth the sermon.

    Here endeth the sermon. Troy White -- 07/08/07 (in reply to #320083985)

    [QUOTE]Here endeth the sermon.....[/QUOTE]

    And thank God for that. If there is one thing I can't stand, it is someone who bleats away on their righteous high horse about how holier than thou they are.

    Illegal downloading is out there and is something that will continue in one form or another regardless of technologies. People will continue to do it. Why pay $20 for an album full of 90% crap tracks?

    Anyway, the crux of the article is that there ARE LEGITIMATE USES OF P2P. A lot of large files take advantage of the bittorrent protocol to share out the load away from their single server. It makes sense.

    I know that bittorrent (to use that as a P2P technology example) can saturate even an ADSL network in no short time once the speed ramps up. This could be very detrimental to a mobile network, so what Virgin are doing is right on the one hand but wrong on the other.

    Now Mr "Anonymous" Coward stick that sermon up your tailpipe. If you don't want to partake in illegalities then so be it but don't harp on about it to others.

    Wireless, P2P Anonymous -- 23/08/07

    I only briefly skimmed the comments but I think it important to point out that almost all wireless technologies of large capacity (broadband) use mtu's well in excess of the standard 1400-1500. Infact it's quite common for it to sit around the 4000+ mark. It works well for wireless for many reasons (which I won't go into). However such large MTU's are not so great for gaming and P2P. Putting aside the whole shaping fixed line will often be better for P2P and gaming (given equivalent bandwidth) for just this reason. Compression and MTU size can have a significant effect.
    Cheers.

    forgot one thing Anonymous -- 23/08/07 (in reply to #320084874)

    I should also add that P2P is the 2nd highest data usage out of internet use. So this a good chance that the majority of internet users use P2P.
    We run P2P services internally within our company to move data, whilst they aren't movies or of that nature we do have to move some large files across a large WAN. Much better traffic balancing.
    Cheers

    the highest bandwidth use on the internet Anonymous -- 30/08/07 (in reply to #320084875)

    Are windows patch files the number 1 use?

    Totally Agree Anonymous -- 28/08/07

    The consumer pays for the pipe and pays for the usage. This practice of limiting P2P is rubbish and has to stop. I pay for an amount of usage and expect to damn well be able to use it. If any user goes over the limit their service is shaped. That's all fine and well and I have no issue with this practice. In order to attract business ISP's use large bandwidth allowances to market their services, yet at at the same time they try to limit exactly how much the user consumes. ISP's know full well that in the case of home usage, bandwidth for the most part is likely to be used in P2P apps. The illegality or otherwise is just a convenient excuse. They really couldn't give a toss. This kind of false advertising is just immoral.

    Agree with what? Anonymous -- 28/08/07 (in reply to #320085137)

    Totally agree wrote:
    "This kind of false advertising is just immoral."

    Are you on crack? Virgin have made it 100% perfectly clear from the outset that they are going to throttle peer-to-peer. This is what the author was complaining about.

    It's their network and they have decided that this is their best shot at making a profit from it (crazy idea huh!).

    What exactly is the problem with this if they are up front about it?

    Banning P2P is a plus for some Jim Holland -- 30/08/07

    Sorry Jo - I think you have missed the point. When procuring goods or services, the first step is to list your requirements, then see who can provide those services at the best price with acceptable quality and conditions of contract.

    My personal list of requirements doesn't include P2P other than Skype. If Skype was blocked or even severely throttled I would have a problem with that and would not consider Virgin. I think many ordinary "Mom & Pop" users would want to use Skype as well, and probably wouldn't even know that it was in fact a P2P technology that could potentially be throttled by Virgin if they stick to the letter of their conditions of contract. However others say above that Skype isn't blocked, so in that case it still meets my requirements. Therefore as a result of my not wanting to use BitTorrent etc I can get a cheaper service from Virgin than elsewhere, and also benefit from improved bandwidth availability because other users won't be sharing movies etc.

    So to me, attacking Virgin for throttling P2P is rather like criticising an insurance company because their budget offering for car insurance excludes people with bad accident records or limited driving experience. If the package meets your specific requirements then you actually benefit from those restrictions.

    A significant limitation that should be mentioned however is that while the system is mobile in the sense that you can take it with you when you move house, the conditions of contract prevent you from using it on the move, eg both at home and at work, or for an IT consultant who wants to have their own broadband access when visiting clients.

    Immature Anonymous -- 30/08/07

    Well I won't be revisiting post by Jo I am afraid. I find them immature and patronising.

    If people gave a 5h!t what I think I'd go on but others have said it pretty clearly.

    Stooping to your level perhaps your comments about the office hottie are purely because it's not seen to be you that's the hottie ? ;)

    If losing P2P when it's clearly stated upsets you perhaps you could read stuff before you sign.

    personal hygiene problem Anonymous -- 28/09/07

    i have had a good read & i like the others like to get something for nothing from p2p but every1 is worried that its shaped, it may be slower but not stopped, (my first modem was a mere 2400 for bbs's & went to 14400 after but the isp was only up to 9600) so i dont know what the winging is about, i would rather hear more about the limitations on taking it with you on holidays & the speeds out side the 3G coverage area's & limitations on useing the phone while away, i love camping in style & would love to have my msn,chats,emails ext plus the ability of useing the phone to recieve & make calls. I know you will say to take my mobile but i dont call every1 i know to let them know i wont be home & i refuse to give my mobile out to just anyone also.
    So any1 have feedback on those issues?

    Technicalities Anonymous -- 13/11/07 (in reply to #320086917)

    P2P can be legit usage. Even Skype is actually P2P. For those that haven't worked it out, Skype has servers that basically act to direct your Skype phone call out to the local (local to the server) phone area, and track the billing that incurs. That is why they can offer ' local call charges' for national and international calls. But Skype to Skype calls are free, any where in the world, because all the Skype users that leave their computers on are being used to route and control other peoples calls. Basically, all those PCs are running like a single big telecom phone exchange/computer. The software is run in the background and typically only uses ' idle' clock cycles (an oxymoron I know). Where it hits some users in the pocket is where you have a limit or cap on uploads (hello Telstra!) and you get charged for an excess.
    But that is a 'legit' use of a P2P service.

    This plan by Virgin is fine for those that normally do their banking, a bit of browsing and maybe run a blog or chat on MSN once or twice a week. Add in the free phone calls nationally and it is a great deal. Especially for renters- your phone number stays the same no matter how many times you move.
    For the online gamers, it is not so great as the latency can be horrendous. If your local tower gets saturated and the system does its thing and switches you to another tower further away, the switch over can make your packets sit around for a while. You wont lose them, but you could be 'killed' a few times before your screen updates.

    deliberate strategy not techno limitations Anonymous -- 15/01/08

    I spoke to virgin sales staff recently about joining and they told me that if I access "illegal" sites such as Limewire then my speed will be dropped to 30 (not 60) and that this is a deliberate strategy by Virgin to discourage music sharing. They said nothing about band capacity or any technical reason, but that it was in accordance with Virgin's ethics and principles on protecting music copyright etc.
    So that adds an element to the discussion!

    Pathetic whingers Anonymous -- 14/02/08 (in reply to #320093561)

    The Virgin deal is simple --
    just like the whining plagerisers who want something for nothing.
    Hats off to Virgin !!

    no wonder its a virgin Anonymous -- 25/02/08

    if you take it out of your area you have to change your adress & get a new phone number or they cut it off, talking on the phone while useing the internet usualy drops the net connection, prepair to spend hours waiting in que every single time for assistance (& they only read from a f.a.q sheet) its a good deal if you dont mind calls & net dropping out, rebooting your modem several times a day, getting no customer service (just the old run-around) then maybe its for you ,by the same token, so would a cheep dialup access.

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Jo Best

Jo Best

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