Telstra: We hear separation rumours: Blogs - Twisted Wire

It won't work so why bother? Mel Sommersberg -- 26/03/09

I've always said that I don't support a seperation of Telstra. What I do support are easier ways for Telstra's market might to be competed with OR a government buyout of Telstra and every single ISP coupled with regulation of prices just like the old days. Either way we'll see a lower price so that everyone can afford a phone and Internet access.

Seperating Telstra would just lead to the two seperate entities colluding in some way and there'd be no real improvement on the situation that currently sees Telstra wanting to control everything.

Comm or comm? Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126801)

Regulated, State owned comms?

Would make comm short for communism, wouldn't it?

@ comm or comm Jason -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126804)

Yes indeed, how ironic.

Mel, the right wing extremist is actually a closet commie, hey comrade, rofl!

hey anon Anonymous -- 05/04/09 (in reply to #320126804)

get back in your time machine, cold war america still needs their paranoid rednecks

Optus spongeing again.. Anonymous -- 26/03/09

The only ones who will benefit from a Telstra separstion will be th OPTUS/Singtel crowd so the free ride thay ejoy will continue!

Stop the foreign owned companies sponging off Aussie companies!!

Not they aren't. Stop telling porkies. Mel Sommersberg -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126803)

No-one sponges off Telstra. Telstra has remained filthy rich out of offering wholesale services and their expanding profits is ample evidence.

All of Telstra's wholesale customers pay adequate fees for the access they receive. Telstra, on the other hand, resorts to various devious tactics to try and prevent this access from being provided and their wishes for higher access pricing amounts to extortion.

All you pro-Helstra nutters voted for the morons who created this environment of artificial competition so cop it sweet. Labor merged the Trade Practices Commission and the Prices Surveillance Authority to created the ACCC monster that exists today and they deregulated the telecommunications sector.

You can't have it both ways. The Commonwealth has to create a proper environment for competition to exist or the job will only ever be half-done, like everything that Labor lays their filthy hands on.

Again show us the proof Jason -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126852)

I see in your typical grubby spineless fashion, you side-stepped this very issue only a few days back Mel/Lord Watchdog (Braaaaadleeeeey).

Refer Telstra makes a killing and then killing?

http://www.zdnet.com.au/blogs/twisted-wire/soa/The-Sol-Trujillo-report-card/0,2001103929,339295523,00.htm#320126452

Like Mr, Mrs or Ms Formosa (who is still waiting) I'd also like to see the proof you have. I'm sure we all would.

Put up or shut up grub.

The proof is in the puddingskies Mel Sommersberg -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126863)

I did make mention of their annual profits Jason. There lies the proof. It must suck to be you.

I came, I saw, I conquered.

Hello earth to idiot! Jason -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126885)

No stupid.

A link, like you, the missing link, to this proof you have - where is it?

The only thing you've ever conquered is your inflatible John Howard doll, loser!

As I said, put up or shut up, grub.

Oh and those debating tips, lol (#12)

Do we have to spoonfeed you forever Jason? Mel Sommersberg -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126897)

Look it up on a news website you brainless **** You are the first person to ever claim that Telstra's profits aren't large and then ask for proof to the contrary.

Congratulations on another failed attempt to completely hijack a thread here.

Wholesale Mel (Braaaaadleeeeey) Jason -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126982)

Oh Mel, don't pussyfoot around, change words and lie to suit yourself. Back your comments with a bit conviction and more than just, I'm right, I am the Lord!

Where did I say Telstra don't make large profits? Please tell me - no need , let me, they do make large profits. Wow what a revelation!

What was said is in regards to 'wholesale' is, there is little evidence either way to suggest they do or don't make 'a killing". How you can twist that into me saying Telstra don't make large profits is anyone's guess?

Telstra and their fanbois say wholesale costs them. Whereas you and the rest of the haters say they make a killing on "wholesale" (I'll say it again in case you still don't understand, "wholesale"). I'm not arguing with you, just asking for more than your word, which frankly can not be trusted, at all.

But since you definitively say they make a killing on "wholesaling", you obviously have evidence to back you claims, so PLEASE SUPPLY YOUR PROOF (as well as the debating tips #14, lol).

Ooh also I see your cheer girls have materialised again and are saying childish ***t about me. This must be an embarrassment to you as it just entrenches my claims that you are spineless and unable to go one on one with me, surely, rofl?

Also Is this what you represent when you ask for on topic, no personal attacks - (in reply to me) you are the biggest F..kwit on the planet? Funny how you don't tell this person to stay on topic ansd no attacks. I guess that's because you are the Lord and I am average Jason. Lmao.

Don't cry little fanboy, don't cry... Mel Sommersberg -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320127018)

What other people say to you is of no concern to me Jason. You bring any stick you cop on yourself because your attitude and your outlook on life stinks.

As for your repeated requests that I back my claims about Telstra's profits (yes from wholesale as well as retail operations) you can go and find it yourself, as I said before. This is a debate about Telstra, not a thesis about profitability.

Jason, the fact that you only ever address comments I make about Telstra is proof that you are nothing but a spineless galoot who loves Telstra to bits. You are a Telstra fanboy and your only desire when you come to this site is to try and hijack the conversation for your own personal gain. I haven't sent anyone here to this conversation as yet but will consider doing-so. I am sure they'll have something to say to you in due course.

Oh I've been found out I am fanboi, lol Jason -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320127046)

No YOU made it a debate about Telstra's wholesaling, with a factless claim - 26/3 Mel (seven comments up) - Telstra has remained filthy rich out of offering wholesale services"...

Prove your claims, it's not rocket science! I didn't say it you did, so prove it? Simple.

Then provide the debating tips you promised, you lame, spineless ***k (#15).

Mel you are completely full of ***t. One who says a lot but really says little. You are unable to prove most if any of your claims and unwilling to go through with promises.

Because you hate Telstra so much for SACKING YOU AS THEIR IRC OP, you suggest that I am a fanboi. So yes compared to you I am Telstra fanboi (but then, nearly everyone is). Compared to Sydney L I am not (and again).

Plus you are a chronic liar, you sent the Master (bater) and even admitted it in a previous thread. But I certainly look forward to chewing up more drivelling little soft ***k c**ntservatives like you and poking fun at them.

Now where's those debating tips (#16) - you just refuse to reply when you are out of your depth don't you?

Say g'day to your girlfriend, the inflatible John Howard love doll too, loser.

Again show us the proof Simon S -- 29/03/09 (in reply to #320126863)

What is your problem ? Why can't you comment without your never ending, lowlife insults. We all know who the grub is.

Ok then, no insults (funny you never say that to your pal?) Simon S' brother (again) -- 30/03/09 (in reply to #320127141)

Since you don't like me taking Mel to task for making claims about Telstra he can't support, lets all three of us agree that Mel is right then.

In that case, Telstra are greedy extortionists who resort to devious tactics and make a "killing" out of wholesaling. Telstra's competitors don't sponge off Telstra, Telstra rip them off.

Done easy!

Telstra is NOT an Australian owned company Terry -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126803)

"Stop the foreign owned companies sponging off Aussie companies!!"

Do you know how frustrating it is to read that comment on here constantly, since NWAT is quoted all the time, I'll quote TTT :

"One of the reasons Telstra said the G9 proposal should not be supported is that some of its proponents are partially foreign owned. Given that Telstra is presently 18.75 per cent foreign owned, and that the senior management of Telstra has continually travelled to Asia, the US and Europe to promote Telstra shares to foreign investors, is this not equally true of Telstra?"
http://www.tellthetruthtelstra.com.au/www/365/1001127/displayarticle/1002379.html

The foreign ownership of Telstra may not be as high as the Australian ownership of Singtel, but that number is going up, Under present legislation foreign ownership is capped at 35% but that is going to be reviewed.

Yes Telstra may be a big company built in Australia using Australian dollars, but it is no longer strictly an Aussie icon owned wholly and solely by Australians, and like many Australian companies is slowly being purchased by overseas investors.

Ummmmm? Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126874)

18.75% foreign owned. So 81.25% Australian owned.

Anything above 50% is a controlling interest. So at a whopping 81.25%, yes Telstra is an Australian company.

So what was your point?

Also a link to TTTT is probably less credible than a link to NWAT.

@Ummmmm? Terry -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126876)

"18.75% foreign owned. So 81.25% Australian owned.
Anything above 50% is a controlling interest. So at a whopping 81.25%, yes Telstra is an Australian company.
So what was your point?"

My point was that it's incorrect to tout Telstra as being a big Australian company competing against a foreign owned entity. The fact is that Telstra is partially (yes not 50% I know) foreign owned (with that number increasing), just as Singtel is partially Australian owned.

Given another 5 years or so and it wouldn't be at all surprising to see the legislation for foreign ownership in Telstra to change and the percentage of foreign ownership to go over 50%.

"Also a link to TTTT is probably less credible than a link to NWAT"

In this instance it's a statistic that could be matched up to the ASX, had it been purely an opinion then yes TTTT would be as credible as NWAT is.

@@Ummmmm? Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126884)

Is this the same Terry who claims to be unbiased? The Terry who 'always; unbiasedly of course, puts the boot into Telstra and no one else? Like now, 18.25% not Australian, come on, we are getting desperate, unbiased Terry! Bit like saying Labor got 51% of the vote so, because they didn't get the other 49%, they are only partially in government!

Democracies rule by majority and I think 81.25% just scrapes into that majority category, unbiased Terry, what do ya reckon, really?

SingTel is partially Australian owned you say?
No, SingTel is a Singaporean company, owned by Temasek the investment sector of the Singaporean government. Granted their may be the odd Aussie investor, investing in Singapore but realistically, you again clutch at straws.

Optus is now owned by SingTel, as SingTel have a controlling interest of over 50%. Because they are owned by SingTel, Optus is listed on the ASX as a SingTel subsidiary and would be partially (less than 50% obviously) Australian owned.

Having less than 50% Australian ownership, Optus are no longer an Australian company, unlike Telstra who are, with 81.25%.

Do you guys sit around making this stupid sh.t up or do you actually believe it, unbiased Terry?

Who's biased? Terry -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126906)

"Is this the same Terry who claims to be unbiased? The Terry who 'always; unbiasedly of course, puts the boot into Telstra and no one else?"

I am unbiased, unlikely people here who blindly follow the "Telstra is an Australian company, let's all support it" type philosophy I take into account that it does also have an increasing amount of foreign ownership.

And I'd like to know how I put the boot into Telstra? I was merely saying that the continual statements implying that Telstra is a great Aussie company is false and it's foreign ownership is increasing. It won't be long before the bulk of Australians telecommunications are owned predominately offshore.

How's about instead of claiming anyone who says something even remotely negative about Telstra (which I didn't by the way, foreign ownership of telcos is an issue), you take what they're saying on what they're saying. I have never claimed support for any telco, but I seem to get flack from Telstra supporters whenever they're put in a negative light, they're the biased ones.

Telstra fan, me oooookkkkkk Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126919)

Firstly unbiased Terry, I am not a Telstra supporter, which is why I can see that you aren't too!

Go back and reread what I wrote above logically and instead of getting all defensive and simply calling me a Telstra supporter, because I question your obvious bias, then tell me how you came to that conclusion? I even said NWAT has little credibility. Plus the fact that you are saying Telstra supporters are the biased ones, is really a bit of a give away about you, unbiased Terry.

I was quite simply laughing at your ongoing claims of not being biased and then a very desperate and "biased" example. 18.25% makes Telstra just as un Australian, as a company 50% plus, actually owned by an overseas company?

Look, I do not go for the xenophobic, Sydney jingoism, but stupid comments like yours are really no better, so I replied.

You always say you aren't against Telstra but I have never seen a kind word about them or a harsh word about any of their opponents, from you.

So come on mate, sing a long. I'll even get you started, Telstra sux, yes Telstra sux, do dah, do dah....

Don't hide it any longer, you know you want to!

Telstra fan, me oooookkkkkk Simon S -- 29/03/09 (in reply to #320126926)

Why post this as anonymous you f..kwit. Can't you bear to see your never ending nonsense posted under the name we all know you as.

Wow Simon S' brother (again) -- 30/03/09 (in reply to #320127142)

Wow, a new name (well a rehashed one) and new bout of courage, but still the same childish nonsense.

Jason, You ****! Rex Alfie Lee -- 31/03/09 (in reply to #320127196)

Complete jerk!

Its always the same few, isn't it Jason -- 31/03/09 (in reply to #320127224)

Jason you****/complete jerk!

How wonderfully profound, prophetic, verbose and adult, Rex!

Why not now write another poetic masterpiece (lol) akin to your Tennyson like, Sol effort, with such talent. Or better still; ask the better half AGAIN, what she thinks of your foolishness.

Seriously Rex, are you playing with a full deck?

reownership Anonymous -- 09/04/09 (in reply to #320126874)

if telstra is australian owned then tell me why do we keep getting answered by overseas operators

Telstra is a bit confused Gareth M -- 26/03/09

"Nor have they (Testra) been consulted about integrating the winning National Broadband Network bid into the Telstra network."
I think Telstra will be the one integrating their own network into the NBN. The copper pairs into each premise will have been taken off the Telstra network and put onto the NBN. How Telstra will keep their existing customers connected is up to Telstra to work out with the NBN provider.

Really? Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126811)

So the government can take property off a private enterprise. How much will they pay for it. Is that on top of the funds promised to the NBN bidder?

Yes, really. As strange as it sounds... Gareth M -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126813)

The High Court has already determined that Telstra does not own the copper pair but has responsibility for maintaining it.
I'm not saying that that's a good thing but the High Court says that's the way it is.

No not really.... Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126818)

Gareth forgive me, but I think you will find that you are only repeating the hopeful, Hackettpool interpretation of the High Courts ruling, rather than the actual legal interpretation. The Court never said Telstra don't own it they said access isn't acquistion.

iTnews "the High Court unanimously ruled that the telecommunications *access regime* set out in the Trade Practices Act did not amount to an acquisition of *Telstra's property*".

Clearly the High Court said Telstra's opponents are allowed access, to Telstra's property, which doesn't amount to acquisition.

You are talking about complete acquisition which is totally different again.

Gareth M Gareth M -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126822)

Admittedly I have not read the legislation and nor am I qualified in any way to interpret it (!) so you are quite correct in my repeating the ramblings of others.
I'm no expert on this either but my understanding is that the implementation of the NBN will rely on the use of the copper pairs which may be left in Telstra's ownership or not. Either way Telstra will be integrating their network into the NBN to get their phone services to their retail customers.
Your question about the government taking away Telstra property may or may not be relevant depending on the final legislation, but governments can and do compulsorily acquire assets.

Agreed Gareth Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126825)

Yes governments can compulsorily acquire, but as we have seen with net filtering, if we give than an inch and they'll take a mile.

It's only Telstra so who cares? But if we let them do it, who or what may or will be next?

The End of PPP's and Privatisation Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126822)

If Labor goes ahead with the desctruction of a companies assets that they have just sold, you can kiss goodbye to foreign investment in this country. We have a massive need for infrastructure coupled with a Govt that has spent our next 50 years of taxpayers money, and they decide the best apporach is to introduce political risk to all transactions now. Our funds will become more expensive to access, because no one will be able to "hand on heart" really trust the Govt, and no one will know which asset is next in line to be consficated due to some half whit decision. This started with a Tender process that the local beer hall would have called a joke. This decision has now entered a stage where testosterone is driving the outcome. Only problem with that is that after Labour are voted out next election we're all going to suffer the backlash of emotion interfering with capital investment for many many years to come. I fell damn stupid for supporting Labor in the last election and I'm hoping my kids never find out.

Would the coalition have been any different? Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126827)

Do you think it would have been different under the Coalition?

They were feuding with Telstra at the time, so Labor were Telstra palsy. Now Labor are feuding with them, the coalition are Tellstra palsy, that's politics. Must do the opposite.

So we would have had Opel (Optus) for the bush and ? Maybe a smaller broadband network, probably being awarded to anyone but Telstra (as they and the coalition government would still have been feuding), which would still need access to Telstra property.

Slightly Different I Suspect Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126828)

That's a good point, and even under the Coalition I suspect there would have been change. The main difference in my opinion is that the Coalition understands finances and the long term repercussions of there decsions. So they would make decisions that benefited the country in the long term. Where as Labor seems to be desparate to get something/anything done and to hell with the consequences and the long term impact as long as it is outside of this term. As mentioned, I need to take some blame as I'd shifted my support from the Coalition to Labor in the last election as I'd considered the Coalition to be arrogant. But I can state right now that I never expected this type of decision making to occur, and I wish I had had a crystal ball. Telstra will fight with any Government so its not all Labors fault, however Labor is now making the big decisions to get there own back as opposed to what is right for all of Australia's taxpayers, and we as a country cannot afford to pay for one or two elected individuals personality clashes with a private board. I think we'll hurt for quite some time from a few of these decisions. One last point, by getting cheaper broadband in Rural Australia, I wouldn't be surprised if our taxes go up to pay for it. Remember we're paying for it either monthly to Telstra, or weekly to Labor in tax to pay the money back, but either way, we're paying for it.

Liberals understand finance Simon -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126831)

You must be joking? Maybe check the facts rather than simply believing what politicians tell you.

During the greatest period of global economic growth in the world's history, the coaltion govt missed the boat and delivered the lowest growth rates of all our competitors. They are also directly responsible for Australia dropping in the standard of living world ratings.

Unfortunately, the current government is just as bad at economic management.

And as for Telstra, the only thing "True Blue" about them is the language it's dissatisfied cutomers use when trying to get resolution from foreign call centres.

House of Review. Absolutely. Sydney Lawrence -- 26/03/09

The considerations of the Rudd Government to confiscate the assets of an Australian company will prove very interesting.

Senator Barnaby Joyce has opened a Net service for the Australian public to consider the socialist plans of the Rudd Government.

The Senators Site is very popular for public comment and I am sure Barnaby and Co will make the Government plans difficult in the Senate.

Barnaby Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126834)

Heaven help Telstra if the best they can scrape up is the laughing stock of Australian politics, the new Fred Nile , Barnaby Joyce.

By their words you shall know them. Sydney Lawrence -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126836)

Thats only one fools opinion Anonymous.

By their words Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126848)

Ditto

Sydney's Reputation Rex Alfie Lee -- 31/03/09 (in reply to #320126848)

Your innocence in all of this comes to the fore Sydney. Not only do you tout yourself as being the shining light of chivalrous information, as in the last repartee I visited but here you are calling someone who touted their opinion "fool".

Sydney (with downcasted look) you should be ashamed.

CONFISCATE??? Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126834)

"The considerations of the Rudd Government to confiscate the assets of an Australian company will prove very interesting."

An interesting play on words Sydney. Confiscate the assets of an Australian company? LMAO - Classic word manipulation at its best, Hollywood style!

PSTN valued at $0 by Telstra Anonymous -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126834)

The govt should just pay Telstra the book value of the ULL.

Telstra valued the ULL at $0 two years ago and tried for a management buy out. (no takers) So pay Telstra the single peppercorn required and everyone's happy.

Bring on separation Mat Singleton -- 26/03/09

I say bring on the separation! Telstra have been asking for it since the arrival of Sol Trujillo and what a fitting legacy for him to leave Telstra, a structural separation all because he decided to play hardball with the Federal Government. Sol Trujillo and Donald McGauchie have brought this on Telstra and that is fact. If they had been more diplomatic and understood the difference to how Aussies do business compared to how Yanks do business then Telstra might not be in the position it is today. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I see that there are a number of people who are against structural separation, to which I say that is your opinion. But in my opinion I relish the fact that structural separation is being considered. At the end of the day Telstra is still going to own/lease the infrastructure, but instead of being one MASSIVE company they will be three companies all belonging to the one MASSIVE company. Lets just hope that the new NBN is going to be half as good as the Government has promised!

Bring on separation. Anonymous -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126893)

Here Here. Its long overdue and immediate benefits will appear to the shareholders, customers and employees and it will be in the best interests of the nation despite what the spin tries to fight against. It's time to diminish the aggressor and allow true competition. Dipping share prices will continue to happen if the board remains. A fresh start and a new beginning for the company will in turn create investor confidence. Off course the current board will continue to create fear inferences about dipping share prices and attempt to blame NBN and the government through various media contacts such as the many they possess in Business Spectator. Its an old toxic system riddled with dodgy deals and special favours that I was once a part of and its all coming back around that can simply be explained with one word. KARMA!

Be careful what you wish for Anonymous -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126920)

Separation is not the holy grail some people think. If the local loop entity is a completely separated company then it will be under pressure to meet shareholders expectations and in a saturated market this means higher prices or the broadband equivalent of pair gain - selling parts of the spectrum - in order to maximise return from its assets.

If the local loop company is still part of Telstra but with a Chinese wall then this offers Telstra considerable leverage in the market to adjust local loop versus retail pricing as a tool to manage competitors.

We need competitive infrastructure. This competitive infrastructure does not have to be built all at once and it does not have to built by a telco (it is just a pipe) and it does not have to be a national project. Labor's cart before horse proposals should not condemn us for the next couple of generations.

Competative ULL? Anonymous -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126992)

Australia is not rich enough to afford competing ULL infrastructure. We would need to increase our population by 100 million people to pay for it..

Pro vs Anti Telstra People Anonymous -- 26/03/09

I think it would be interesting to complete a survey of Pro vs Anti Telstra people to see their background.
From what I've read my gut feel is that the anti Telstra people believe that some magical person, other than their mother, is responsible for their internet along with many other facets of their lives. They were encouraged early on in life to go out into the world with one's hand out demanding their share of everything.
This expectation it would seem, would extend to free internet.
Justification of this entittlement to a free ride is something I personally find difficult to understand.
But then I'm one off those others who left home and was told to stand on my own two feet and be a man. We are told to work hard, pay our way and save for the future. We are responsible for ourselves and our families and don't look to anyone for a leg up, hand out, or total ride through life.
The Govt doesn't seem to understand that now the hard workers don't trust them anymore and the annoying thing is that when the Govt runs out of money, which is well on the cards, we're the ones they will run back to for more money as we were silly enough to work hard, buy assets, and pay taxes, whilst the others still have their hands out.
There appears to be a very clear distinction between the two and unfortunatley the hard workers who buy assets are being shafted.

What?? Terry -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126912)

I'll assume you're the anon who replied to me above, so...

"I think it would be interesting to complete a survey of Pro vs Anti Telstra people to see their background. "

I'm not anti-Telstra, I'm pro-Australian Telecommunications.

"From what I've read my gut feel is that the anti Telstra people believe that some magical person, other than their mother, is responsible for their internet along with many other facets of their lives."

No the internet sprung from ARPANET which was a military and university network in the US. It's main growth happened after http was released around 1990 and it's become commonplace every since.

Original internet connections were typically supplied by dial up BBS's, but as they started to die off (well some still exist) ISPs took over. Telstra was clearly a large player but there were also smaller players in companies like Optus and OzEmail.

The advent of cable brought high speed to a lot of suburban users, but it was really DSL that brought high speed internet to the masses.

That's only a quick brief from the top of my head but I'm sure you could find more online if you wanted, and my mother didn't tell me any of it.

"This expectation it would seem, would extend to free internet. "

Free internet? please show me where a supposed anti-Telstra person has said internet connections should be free.

"But then I'm one off those others who left home and was told to stand on my own two feet and be a man. We are told to work hard, pay our way and save for the future. We are responsible for ourselves and our families and don't look to anyone for a leg up, hand out, or total ride through life."

My wife and I have lived interstate from our families for just over 8 years, and now have a 1 month old (child #1) to support, we have both worked hard at tertiary level and also in the workforce. Once again, please show me a supposed anti-Telstra person who has demanded free handouts.

"The Govt doesn't seem to understand that now the hard workers don't trust them anymore and the annoying thing is that when the Govt runs out of money, which is well on the cards, we're the ones they will run back to for more money as we were silly enough to work hard, buy assets, and pay taxes, whilst the others still have their hands out. "

I didn't vote in Labor.

"There appears to be a very clear distinction between the two and unfortunatley the hard workers who buy assets are being shafted."

I think you're going off on a wild tangent now, not to mention your entire post is along the lines of you either fully support Telstra or you're a lazy no hoper who doesn't work and expects government payouts and free internet. Could you advise how you came to that conclusion.

Hoping they are not separated Matt -- 26/03/09 (in reply to #320126912)

I can recall many years ago when the idea of selling Telstra 1st raised its head. My father, an employee of the company in excess of 40 years, said, this is going to be the mother of all stuff ups & forsaw many of the problems within the telco industry we are now experiencing.

Given the tightening of the international money market & the flow on effect this will have on discressionary spending, I believe the NBN is a lame duck that will not have the required take up over the short to mid term to generate sufficient profits to make the asset viable. I see a Gov't bailout for the owner on the horizon.

If all concerned allowed market forces to work, the weak would collapse & the strong would survive allowing true competition. The industry is over regulated to allow competition for competitions sake. The only thing that has been achieved is a bloody great mess.

Like all companies, Telstra have made their fair share of mistakes, however anyone to claiming that Telstra alone act in their own interest, resides in fantasy land, just like their competition they need to generate profits & gain marketshare. Just as many are blindly pro Telstra, many are blinded by the anti Telstra rhetoric emulating from the likes of internode, optus, iinet etc, everyone is playing the same game.

Time To Tell The Truth. Sydney Lawrence -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126925)

With the long awaited announcement of the NBN tender winner expected in the next weeks the era of true competition should have arrived.

The NBN builder will have their system to offer the Australian public and Telstra will continue with their network upgrade to provide serious competition. That is unless the NBN builder does not accept competition and demands Government regulation to make the NBN a monopoly.

It is doubtful if the Australian people would accept such a situation as Telstra opponents have for years called for fair and open competition. It is reported that Telstra opponents also call for confiscation of Telstra plant and equipment and transfer of Telstra customers.

Australia has an opportunity to create a level playing field in high speed broadband but only if Telstra is allowed freedom to operate without unfair restriction. Also, those who suggest that the new NBN system will be a cheap alternative to Telstra are either being deceptive or know nothing about required returns on investment.

NBN needs "True Competition" Anonymous -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126946)

OPTUS fans loooovvvves ACCC & FAULSE ECONOMY!!!

Telstra is right over regulation STIFLES investment for this great Nation!!

Thats right Sydney. What Australia really needs is "True Competition" not the regulated stuff OPTUS/SiNGTEL & co have sponged off for years!! (refer to pro OPTUS quote above to show the three card trick Conroy will fall for!!)

Ha ha ha Davo -- 09/04/09 (in reply to #320126946)

NBN announced and worst case senario for our dear Telstra. The copper is irrelevant and sparation is a reality!

Bigpond wasn't first Mel Sommersberg -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320126912)

"From what I've read my gut feel is that the anti Telstra people believe that some magical person, other than their mother, is responsible for their internet along with many other facets of their lives."

Other ISPs like Liberty One, Microplex and OzEmail were connection people to the Internet here in Australia long before Telstra ever bothered to join the fray. Telstra never even bothered with constructing their own ISP, they bought one off Microsoft and rebadged it as On Australia, t/a Bigpond.

Break up Telstra Anonymous -- 27/03/09

Best thing that could happen. Telstra have far to much power over the land lines, which Australians have already paid for. An independent entity needs to be setup to be in control of all Land Lines and wholesale these on a level playing field to all retailers... there are far too many reasons to explain it all here.. but in the current setup Telstra is ruining telecommunications growth in this country... due to their monopoly on landlines...which also hinders broadband connections and growth..

Buying wholesale from a competitor Terrible Tadpole -- 27/03/09

Separation would be tough on the investors, so something would have to be done about that. But having said that...

The current setup is similar to the government saying that all transport companies must use Toll trucks. The problem is that Toll get to use their own trucks at cost. All the other transport companies must buy trucking from Toll at a wholesale price set by Toll that includes a profit margin. Toll would clearly structure their wholesale price comfortably close to their own retail price in order to: a) limit price pressure from their competitors, and b) minimise the profit margins that can be achieved by their competitors.

Australia cannot have an honest and open retail telecommunications market until the wholesaler is prevented from retailing.

Invest and compete. Sydney Lawrence -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320127004)

Terrible Tadpole the answer is simply. Buy a few trucks of your own.

bad analogy Anonymous -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320127004)

A better analogy would be the hume highway. If I owned the hume and stopped all competitors tucks from using it, I would have a monopoly. My competitors can simply build a new frreway between Sydney and Melbourne.

The fact that they would have problems securing the right of way and aquiring all the land needed is a major hurdle. The cost of building the carriageway is only part of the cost. Then, once built, there is not enough traffic to pay for the maintenance of both freeways.

Same for the ULL infrastructure..

And again Anonymous -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320127029)

another bad analogy, because you only tell half the story.

they aren't being stopped from using it, are they?

in fact they are allowed to use it at a price the owner claims is less than what it costs to maintain it. all the while the wholesalers collect a toll from their customers, with a built in profit margin, dictated by someone who has nothing to do with it.

the owner says the wholesalers are charged so little for their access, that the owner has to charge their customers more than the wholesaler, just to cover everyone's maintenance costs.

same for ull infrastructure

It's all happened before. Sydney Lawrence -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320127033)

Which all goes to prove that the effort to provide false competition is an absolute waste of time and resources.

Better to admit that the situation requires a natural monopoly that will, in fact, supply customers with a better service for less cost. Problem is our Government has created ( in their misplaced desire to force competition) a monster of gigantic proportions in the form of hundreds of uneconomic ISP's.

The madness which is the NBN proposal will prove the greatest flop in Australian corporate history when the builder finds that consumers will, in the main stick with Telstra. The hope that the NBN can be a cheaper product for Australians will prove an impossibility as roll-out costs escalate and problems become reality.

Some time ago the glass industry in Australia was controlled by a monopoly, Australian Consolidated Industries. Smorgom Brothers decided to compete with A.C.I. and build a new Plant at Penrith. Competition was created but, as will happen with the NBN, the end result was the new glass plant went bust and the failed business was sold to A.C.I.

I think the Australian Government, on behalf of the Australian taxpayer, would be well advised not to throw billions of public money into a business that is best left to the experts and to the open free market that will, in the end, deliver a better result for the Australian people.

Very bad indeedy Mel Sommersberg -- 27/03/09 (in reply to #320127029)

It's not just the freeways though. Telstra wants to own the freeway, local roads, side streets and the laneway behind the backyard dunny.

Canute is powerless. Sydney Lawrence -- 28/03/09 (in reply to #320127055)

Mel, can you not understand, and admit that the success of Telstra is a direct result of their acceptance by their customers, the Australian people.

Sure they hold a strong position in the industry, and this in spite of the Government and ACCC taking every step to disadvantage them by anti competition regulation.

Mel the market forces will always dominate and even if the Government attempts to falisfy the free and open competitive system the best service provider will dominate.

Mel you should know that the weak cannot be helped by pulling down the strong. That attempt only weakens all to the advantage of none. Let's wait and watch, soon all will be revealed.

No Sydney, Monopoly Rex Alfie Lee -- 31/03/09 (in reply to #320127075)

Telstra remain in a monopolistic state. They control everything & you know it. How can you ask such a ridiculous question when you know as well as everyon else does that most of the population over 60 don't realise how to make changes to make their calls cheaper or don't believe their calls would be cheaper with someone else nor do they believe that the other side would be a better option. Then there are those that have shares & want everyone to be with Telstra anyway. Then there are those that have no choice because Telstra is the onl;y operative. Telstra didn't buy their way in, it was given to them by the people.

Telstra still hold a monopoly & get paid even for the services provided by the other companies. Why am I rehashing this rhetoric? Sydney, for once be reasonable & honest. You claim to be but so often your perspective is a litany of regurgitated bull. The saddest part is that you actually believe what you say.

Competition Question Alan -- 30/03/09 (in reply to #320127055)

Wouldn`t this whole debate about copper be mute if a WiMax network was instigated.

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