Full Duplex by David Braue

A view from the trenches of Australian telecommunications. As the name implies, it’s a two-way conversation and we ask you not to pull any punches ... we won’t.

Robbing Joe the Shearer to pay Paul

Posted by David Braue @ 14:28 67 comments

Sol Trujillo looked downwards for most of the time that Charles Macek, chairman of Telstra's executive remuneration committee, stood in front of 2,000 shareholders and spoke for 10 minutes before announcing that Trujillo was paid over $13 million for his services during the past financial year.

Telstra CEO Sol Trujillo
(Credit: Telstra)

It was the kind of posture that suggested Trujillo wanted to just disappear under the table, at which Telstra executives sat while facing the shareholders at the company's annual general meeting held — and picketed by unions — in Melbourne recently.

With the submission deadline just five days away, the NBN was on everybody's lips as chairman Don McGauchie launched the expected tirade against the government while Trujillo — an experienced operator in whose mouth butter would seem not to melt — spruiked Telstra's success at making money for its shareholders.

McGauchie has been doing this a lot lately, picking up the mantle for departed "human megaphone" Phil Burgess in spearheading the company's relentless attempts to discredit the government, its competitors and, most recently, the NBN itself.

Yet as I think of Trujillo sitting there, trying to will himself invisible as Macek methodically built the case for Trujillo's compensation, I now wonder whether he will lift his head to meet the eyes of the person I might call Joe the Shearer — our equivalent of the Obama-McCain battle's infamous Joe the Plumber — and explain why Joe wouldn't see any benefits from a Telstra-run NBN for years now.

For a company that plays the card of rural responsibility as hard as Telstra does — the "Corporate Responsibility Key achievements 2007/2008" brochure handed out at the AGM features a heartstrings-tugging father-and-son-talking-on-mobile-with-rolling-hills backdrop — the company has shafted the two million rural Australians it purports to love. The Kombi crew's 90 per cent bid (technically, Telstra says it's 80 to 90 per cent, but let's give the benefit of the doubt here), is a fish-slap to the face of Joe the Shearer and everybody else who lives in rural Australia.

Last week, I mentioned Telstra's strange maths in estimating the total cost of its proposal at $9.7 billion, even though it had spent most of this year telling everybody the NBN would cost anywhere from $15 to $25 billion. Taking an average figure of $20 billion, we can only conclude that Telstra has pegged the cost of servicing the 10 per cent of the population not served by its network at around $10.3 billion.

That's $9.7 billion to deliver FttN to 18 million city dwellers, and $10.3 billion ($5,150 each) to service the remaining two million or so that make up the other 10 per cent. By these maths — and yes, these are rough figures — city dwellers will cost $539 each to connect, while rural residents will cost $5,150 each. No wonder Telstra decided they weren't worth servicing in the end; those rural customers sure are darned expensive!

It's a good thing they don't, apparently, need it anyway. If Telstra's proposal document is to be believed, rural customers on the whole are getting better broadband than those in cities. These aren't my words; they're Telstra's:

"The majority of those currently without fast broadband are located in the major cities, where homes and businesses located more than 1.5km from their local telephone exchange cannot currently get fast fixed broadband using Telstra's existing telephony network.

For this reason, Telstra considers that the roll out should start in multiple locations, with a roll-out priority based not on geography for its own sake, but on bringing benefits to as many Australians as rapidly as possible."

In other words, Joe the Shearer can wait. Telstra is clearly going to roll out its NBN in capital cities first, where the most customers live and, despite Telstra's assertions, many residents already have access to decent broadband. Better still, it's ready to "self-fund the NBN ... without a government funding commitment at this stage".

Correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but Telstra is basically arguing that regional Australia doesn't need fast broadband as much as city dwellers, and that Telstra can service those city dwellers with its own cash — but just doesn't feel like it yet, unless the government decides to come to the table with other concessions.

Telstra could, the document continues, push towards the 98 per cent level with "a much larger Commonwealth contribution" that Telstra chief operating officer Greg Winn this week said should be "at least double plus" the $4.7 billion on offer.

The size of that contribution has been set in stone since the bid was announced, but Telstra's proposal is suggesting that none of the $4.7 billion it would get from the government would actually go towards delivering broadband to rural and regional areas. Never mind, of course, that $2.4 billion of this comes from the draining of the Communications Fund, whose very purpose was to support telecommunications upgrades in rural and regional areas.

In other words, Joe the Shearer can wait. Telstra is clearly going to roll out its NBN in capital cities first, where the most customers live

The expression "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind, and with many worried the Rudd government will enter into back-door negotiations with Telstra, it's little wonder the upper house has frozen those assets.

While the structure of Telstra's proposals shows its executives are clearly living on another planet, I must also take Optus to task as well. After months of lobbying and bald-faced declaration of its commitment to the Terria cause, the group evaporated at the eleventh hour and instead offered nothing more than moral support to the Optus bid that was eventually lodged. Terria made much noise about its commitment to start its roll out in the country areas and move in to the city — but with Terria now a paper tiger, will Optus keep that commitment?

If not, who is Joe the Shearer to go to when he wants ADSL2+? Telstra's NBN proposal excludes the bush, and Optus presumably will support rural Australia but needs to distance itself from the fiasco that is Terria. And then there's Acacia, whose bid apparently covers 100 per cent of the Australian population — presumably within the parameters of the government's original offer — and Axia NetMedia, which isn't talking specifics but presumably is doing much the same.

One of the main objectives of the NBN was to bring decent broadband to regional areas where dial-up internet is still the order of the day. I'm not on the evaluation panel, but if I were, I would be factoring each bid's provisions to service "the other 10 per cent" quite heavily into my assessments. Joe the Shearer wouldn't expect anything less.

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Talkback 67 comments

    As a shareholder I can only endorse anything that makes me money D0rK -- 09/12/08

    YES - I AM A TELSTRA SHAREHOLDER - BOTH OFFERS.

    NO - I AM NOT A TESLSTRA CUSTOMER IN ANY DIRECT WAY. (We are all Telstra customers indirectly in some way)

    Anything they can do to make my pile of money bigger is OK with me. I didn't invest my money so it would decrease in value.

    acacia for the win! joe -- 09/12/08

    100% of the population? none of the unsightly idocioies of tesltra or tierra/optus, I know who should win!

    And wa wa wa in advance 'only telstra has the financial availabilty to do it', then throw the bid to axia, I'm sure one of the biggest telcos in canada will be able to find a backer if telstra is?

    what a crock Anonymous -- 09/12/08

    David Braue its one thing being Simon Hacketts butt plug seriously what an imagination

    now if you care to show some real figures, not ones you just roughly throw together?

    i seriously hope telstra dont get it ( although we know they will dont we ) so we can see what a real **** up looks like

    Reject fantasy. Get real. And grow up. Sydney Lawrence -- 09/12/08

    Your pathetic story was deceptively set-up and based on an absolute lie.

    I was at the Telstra AGM and saw no sign of your weasel words of insult that Sol was in any way uncomfortable. If I were trained in psychiatry I would guess that you are a jealous insignificant failure that indulges in fantasy to try to agrand yourself by belittling others.

    Your writings were childish and simplistic in the extreme, not factual and indeed demonstrate how far you will sacrifice journalistic honesty in your effort to have some false glory transfer to yourself by your dishonest attack on decent people and a great Australian company.

    Constructive criticism is good but destructive garbage helps no one.

    he does have a point though joe -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118422)

    Telstra's 'NBN' plan is rather city-centric, all while they are spruiking their pro-rural approach... in advance, i agree syd, it is expensive to service the bush, and no, while Next G offers oodles more coverage than CDMA and such, most customers still dont get reception on their properties, main highways, yep, covered, individual properties on a 20 acre farm, nope... and telstra really shouldnt, its to expensive, but if there going to play heart strings with the bush, then the least they could do is try and give them somethign decent

    ROFL! Anonymous -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118422)

    Sydney - you're mutterings always make me ROFL!

    Grow up and learn that Telstra's board are employed to defend their actions. If you are unhappy with the public's perception of Telstra, you need to take that up with the Telstra board - because the public couldn't give a rats arse about self-interested shareholders :-)

    So where's the fallacy? Sean -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118422)

    C'mon Sydney, that's a bit rich, "dishonest attack on decent people and a great Australian company". What a load of piffle. Firstly where's the dishonesty? C'mon Sydney, enlighten us with some pseudo-psycho babble.

    As for Sol's behaviour at the AGM, I think that unless he labours under a truckload of arrogance he would feel a little embarrased at his remuneration package, as would many senior executives at this reporting/AGM season, especially in this economic climate.

    embarrased? Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118477)

    If I was getting Sols' pay packet, I highly doubt i'd be embarassed.

    I'd probably be doing a little dance and giving the bird to people who like yourself are obviously a little green in response.

    Sol, Is that you!!! Rhino -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118422)

    It's nice that Sydney Lawrence (or should I call you Sol) reads the news online. As for your statement "destructive garbage helps no one" have you actually heard or read anything that the Telstra board have issued as 'statements'. It has been nothing but childish, simplistic, extreme, non factual and clearly demonstrates how far Telstra will sink to rip off the Australia tax payer. Get your head out of Sol butt and see the real world you moron.

    Reject fantasy. Get real. Grow up **** -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118422)

    Agree with you 100% in your comment about the David Braue story, on the Telstra AGM and his description of Sol's demeanor at the meeting. Would love to know why or who puts Braue up to writing such much of his an anti-Telstra venom.

    @ Reject fantasy. Get real. Grow up Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118650)

    is it that hard to believe that he just doesn't like them because of what they've done/haven't done?

    People don't have to be paid to dislike Telstra

    Pet up anger?? Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118693)

    Then why such angst against a great Australian company?? All this pet up anger....??

    @ Pet up anger Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118694)

    I think you mean to say pent instead of pet but I won't go near that

    Great Australian company? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...

    Pet up anger?? **** -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118694)

    Whether you meant pet or pent so what, your point is still more than valid. Why the hell is everyone bagging Telstra, who are as you said - A Great Australian Company. Lop the tall poppy is certainly alive and well, but I wonder how these anti-Telstra people will feel, if or when they start getting some of the terrible problems and after sales service support that I have been experiencing lately, from Optusnet.

    oh really? Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118422)

    I thought you swore blind that you didn't own Telstra shares Sydney? Why were you at the AGM if you have no financial interest in Telstra?

    I smell rat...

    re Sydney Lawrence Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118696)

    Hey Sydney buy a few more...probably a good investment when Telstra gets the NBN...which will be the in the Nations interests & not just Sydney's.

    @ oh really Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118696)

    Of course he's got shares, they've got a profile page on him on NWAT

    but I didn't think he swore that he still doesn't own any shares

    Telstra or American Trash? Anonymous -- 09/12/08

    Pay Sol millions for halving the share price and borrow to pay shareholders. lol....

    It is going to be fantastic when Telstra are forced to compete.

    Crazy talk Anon. Sydney Lawrence -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118426)

    Anonymous you are funny. You say " it is going to be fantastic when Telstra are forced to compete".

    Do you realise that if Telstra were to to "compete" and reduce prices the other 600 ISPs would soon be forced into bankruptcy.

    Watch what you wish for Anon the results could be catastrophic for many, probably you included.

    @Crazy talk Anon. Akira Doe -- 09/12/08 (in reply to #320118429)

    Syd, I think he's talking about the NBN. Wouldn't it be grand if Telstra were forced to compete to get their subscribers, on a level playing field, that being, one that isn't totally controlled by them (price wise as in inflated wholesale pricing therefore justifying the excessive retail price they will charge, much like their ADSL Network). Imagine the Millions they spend on their marketing and spin (NWAT and yourself for example) wasn't needed because their offering alone brought in the subscribers...

    Yes, their margins wouldn't be anywhere near as big, and yes, my shares would be worth less, but I can't help but believe that the country would be better off, especially those in the IT industry or companies who would get freedom to compete more easily on the international stage.

    "compete" Sean -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118429)

    Sydney, do you mean really compete without cross subsidising between wholesale/network and retail? I would love to see that happen. True network pricing for all, then we'd see how shoddy Telstra's current operational separation really is, and how they gouge the public through wholesale.

    @Crazy talk Anon. Terry -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118429)

    "Do you realise that if Telstra were to to "compete" and reduce prices the other 600 ISPs would soon be forced into bankruptcy."

    I've asked you in the past to back up that statement but so far you haven't, so are you now willing to show why x number of ISPs will fail if Telstra drop their prices or is it still FUD?

    Facts not Fiction Anonymous -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118429)

    I was referring to the NBN, and how does a wholesaler reducing costs sent its customers broke?

    And I have no shares in any Telco. I know that is hard for you to understand, being that its your only argument.

    Of course others would fail Gavin -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118426)

    Sadly, half of you don't seem to have any understanding of business. Being the market leader, dating back to at least 1975 when Telecom was formed, Telstra has the strongest brand recognition and is trusted by a majority of older Australians. Most of these people would never stop being Telstra customers, simply because consumers tend to stick with what they know and older people are more resistant to change.

    It is also well known that Telstra charges a premium for high levels of bandwidth on ADSL services. This creates a market for smaller competitors to offer 100GB/month plans. If Telstra chose to undercut their pricing, firstly the ACCC would go nuts about anti-competitive behaviour, but assuming they didn't stop Telstra in time, many smaller ISP's would be forced to close their doors as customers switched back to Telstra. This would in turn create a cascade effect amongst other smaller ISP's as people people reach the end of their contract periods, since they would find security in the larger provider, and not want to commit to a company with an uncertain future. It is likely Optus and other major ISP's would benefit from this effect.

    The failure of small ISP's is not necessarily a bad thing. If it was a perfectly competitive market then each of the 600 ISP's would hold just over 33,000 customers, which is just plain stupid from an economies of scale perspective. In the US, with 3500-4000 ISP's, each would hold 75,000-85,000 customers. To reach the same density Australia would need to cut down to about 250 ISP's.

    Also, keep in mind that even if Telstra loses control of the network, they are still the largest service provider. Money they don't spend on maintaining a network can be spent on obtaining customers and supporting price cuts or higher bandwidth plans at current prices.

    Those ISP's that are not requesting legislation to favour them are likely simply hoping the status quo is maintained so they aren't forced out of business.

    @Of course others would fail Terry -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118508)

    "but assuming they didn't stop Telstra in time, many smaller ISP's would be forced to close their doors as customers switched back to Telstra"

    This is the bit that gets me, why would people switch to Telstra? If I'm a customer of blahblah ISP and I'm completely and utterly satisfied with the service being provided, why would I suddenly wake up one morning and suddenly decide to change to another ISP?

    I think you're forgetting that there is more to an internet connection than merely price, and that some people just want a fast stable connection, and if they've got that now it would be a hard sell to get to them to go somewhere else.

    @Terry Gavin -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118567)

    Perhaps it should have been following that section you quoted that I used the qualifier from my next sentence "as people people [sic, oops] reach the end of their contract periods". You could reasonably assume there are constantly contracts ending, though more around the times past promotions were conducted etc etc.

    I'm certainly not forgetting the stable connection desire. I'd love a stable connection, but the ISP of the property development I live in (Vistagate, which uses Pivit and Pipe Networks for its connections to the outside world) is often unable to provide one. Such are the joys of mini-ISP's holding monopolies over property developments. I pay Telstra prices for (except on a good day) Telstra bandwidth with service levels well below Telstra quality. Give me a real (large) ISP any day.

    The reason for people going back to Telstra is that I believe it is a fair comment that most Australians have either been Bigpond customers, or are aware of many people who have/are. Reasons for leaving Telstra most likely do not relate to poor connection quality, but rather the prices for what you get. If people start to hear that Telstra is suddenly 'good' again in the factors that motivated the departure... so good in fact that they undercut competitors, then there is the very real possibility that a lot of people will jump on the bandwagon while they can.

    It does not save the minnows if their liquidity is too weak to handle the number of switching customers. You would expect resilience to this threat to increase with the size of the ISP i.e. it would take Terria members longer to go insolvent than the 590 other ISP's we have.

    rofl terry Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118567)

    you've just pointed out a great reason to be Telstra. They actually provide a crapload on their own website, plus free content etc.

    I've just moved from bigpond to optus and you wouldnt BELIEVE the amount of free content that I've lost and the ineffably crap offering through "the optus zoo" compared to bigpond.

    Sadly enough Telstra doesnt actually differentiate by offering more innovative offerings and extras.

    Independent NBN needed... Greg Alexander -- 09/12/08

    It'd be interesting if Acacia wins. Optus said they wanted to invest $2billion, and didn't want control - lets see them invest $2billion in Acacia's bid :) (or whoever else gets the go ahead).

    I'd like to read a summary of all the bids. It'd be very interesting.

    @Independent Anonymous -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118454)

    Ah independence, using Optus's $2billion independent cheque book.

    It's not all about FTTN Gavin -- 10/12/08

    If you read what Telstra has been saying over the past few days, some of it is actually intelligent!

    The figures you present talk of the cost of providing FTTN to 100% of the population, but this is only one solution to provide broadband, as Telstra have said. Although wireless (including satellite) has latency issues, from a cost perspective it does benefit from terrific range. Whilst it may cost $20 billion to lay fibre within a stone's throw of every person in the country, it would obviously cost a lot less to lay fibre for 90%, then use WiMAX/LTE with base stations every 40-50km for the next 9%, then satellite for the final 1%. Wireless cannot be used in cities where the bandwidth limits are easily reached (see Christmas Eve SMS sending time), but in the country with few subscribers it is a viable solution, and much cheaper than fibre.

    Also, keep in mind that the $4.7 billion is OUR money, it is the investment of all Australians. Telstra shareholders and creditors will require a return on their investment and rightly demand the network is built in a cost-effective manner, and Australian taxpayers should demand the same hold true of their contribution. The Federal Government should not allow taxpayer dollars to be wasted because fibre-to-the-node/home is the centrepiece of the NBN.

    Where there is a centrepiece there is always an extremity; it is good and proper to treat the extremity in a different manner to the centrepiece.

    (I don't own Telstra shares and don't use them as my ISP or phone carrier).

    Australians are waking up to deceipt. Sydney Lawrence -- 10/12/08

    Gavin all that is asked by fair minded Australians is that sensible infusion of ideas, such as you provide be presented. Not the cascade of self interest rubbish that those whose financial holdings demand that they continually demonise Australia's Telstra.

    Australians are waking up to Telstra's deceipt. Wakie -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118486)

    "Not the cascade of self interest rubbish that those whose financial holdings demand."

    Are you speaking in the third-person again SL?

    The fact that you assume Telstra-bashers have holdings in companies (by the likes of Optus) astonishes me.

    Had you given the thought, perhaps, that Australians are sick and tired of being screwed by the Monopolistic Mammoth?

    It's time you woke up and smelt what you are shoveling.

    Wakie wakie Anonymous -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118512)

    You use the old tired Telstra shareholder claim, as your only reason in disparaging Sydney, but you are astonished when someone suggests it in the other direction?

    @Wakie wakie Wakie -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118554)

    I am more astonished about how pro-NWATers are focusing more on suspected financial interests with competitors of Telstra, instead of consumers.

    More of a focus needs to be put on customers, not only because they are the source of the revenue (in this case contribution to share price), but if they are given sub-par treatment, how do you think the share price is going to be affected?

    If Telstra looks after their customers, then their shareholders will also be looked after. I know of some companies who's main focus is their employee's welfare, which filters down to their customers. If only all 'great Aussie' companies had the same philosophy.

    If they adapted some sensible strategies, then perhaps Telstra's investment wouldn't be so "risky" as broadband penetration would effectively drive down the costs of the deployment.

    Common sense? I didn't think so either.

    Sydney Lawrence: the one-eyed snake! Whatever -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118486)

    Someone had better phone for a WAM-bulance, because there are going to be some tears!

    Uncle Sydney, I see you have been fevourishly posting comments everywhere, EXCEPT those where it serves you and your bloody-minded opinion, namely:

    TelStra Next G article on ZDnet

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/communications/soa/Next-G-speeds-hit-by-glitch/0,130061791,339293717,00.htm

    APC article on Tel$tra Next-G service suffering outages:

    http://apcmag.com/telstra_next_g_network_hit_by_software_glitch.htm

    Mate, you were faster than two shakes of a lamb's tail when Optus' Mobile network suffered the very same outages, to post messages to encourage those afffected by the service loss to report it to the releveant authorities and worse yet - claim fraud!

    How then is it you are 'seemingly' silent of the problem now and not posting the same messages?

    You are worse than Ray Warren when he calls the State of Origin!

    Telstra NBN **** -- 10/12/08

    What's with this guy Braue, he sure seems hell bent on giving Telstra a hard time. Is he being paid by Optus, or some other Telstra competitor because everything he says, is one way traffic against Telstra ?

    Build it from the outside-in! Ian of Brisbane -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118566)

    Mike, f0ck-you and whatever truffle-hunter beast you rode in on!

    Even Blind-Freddy can see that this article is addressing the dire need of our rural cousins and those who reside within the broadband 'blackspots' ?

    I happily reside about 200 metres from one of the largets exchanges in QLD and enjoy 24 Mbps ADSL2+ throughput, but feel nothing but empathy and sympathy for those less fortunate!

    Unlike my mate Sydney Lawrence, I want the NBN build to be awarded to a provider who will serve the needs of those less fortunate as us, but FIRST - as they are taxpayers and pay taxes the same rate as us, so why should they be any less worthy!?

    Within the 'urban fringe' we tend to get better access to the CAN, so why the hell would any organisation want to build the NBN from the urban environment outwards, unless of course, they simply wished to render competing hardware redundant and cater to the popular majority?

    'nuff said...

    Build it from the outside **** -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118583)

    To Ian of Brisbane, the first sentence of your answer to my comment is enough to endorse your total attitude towards Telstra, and the extent of your overall common sense ?

    Suggest you have a good read of Gavin's comment...10/12/08.......I'd like to know what your description of him is ! I reckon he's spot on.

    Incidentally I am an Optus customer, and have been for many years, so don't go thinking that I am a one eyed Telstra supporter.

    'nuff said...........................(also)

    Just calling it as I see it David Braue -- 10/12/08 (in reply to #320118566)

    But I must say Telstra's executive have made the company a target by thumbing its nose at the NBN process, putting regional Australia in the too-hard basket, bagging competitors nonstop and demanding unilateral, unfounded concessions from a government that was elected to protect and promote the interests of all Australians -- not just the 1.4 million that happen to own Telstra shares.

    Or is that all OK with you?

    It's not all okay; however... Gavin -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118593)

    Telstra gets bagged by its comptetitors all the time. It's only fair I guess?

    They called regional Australia too expensive (for fibre) not too hard. And even then... "Telstra has recently completed a roll-out of 800km of optical fibre for a transmission link between Jabiru and Nhulunbuy in the Northern Territory" (http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22155/127/).

    I do think the wholesale network should be a seperate company from the retail business. However, other companies do own and operate their own networks both wired and wireless, though they are smaller. Should we enforce industry wide seperation to be fair? Should we force Telstra alone to bare the cost of its existing network being rendered obsolete?

    The NBN builder will, one would expect, run the most advanced and most far reaching network in the country. It borders on state seizure of assets for the government to sponsor another company to build a network which replaces or uses (against Telstra's will most likely) a significant portion of their network infrastructure. And if Axia gets their way and it's a FTTP (fibre to the premise) network then there goes all of Telstra's copper network too. That has to hurt. Nobody can expect them to take that lying down.

    The Howard government got us into this mess by not seperating Telstra when they privatised them. Now we have to live with the consequences. Any decision against Telstra sets difficult commercial (if not legal) precedents that the government may very much wish to avoid.

    Be Australian. Buy Australian. Sydney Lawrence -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118593)

    David again you show your ignorance.

    Every Australian, man, woman and child has a vital interest in the well being of Telstra.

    1. 35,000 Australian employees.
    2. 1.4 million Australian Telstra owners.
    3. Australians with superannuation policies.
    4. All Australians who own the Future Fund.

    Try to be a little pro Australian David.

    sydney... joe -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118645)

    if I were to own optus shares, does that suddenly mean australians have a vital interest in maintaing optu's share value??

    Sydeny, Personally, If one is in a finicailly happy enough posistion that they can buy enough shares that a lack of them will make a dent in their income, well their obviously well off enough to weather any drop in share price...

    and super annuation... any superfund thats brave enough to invest in telstra given the uncertainty of the industry at the moment, well their probably not worth trusting your super with...

    and sydney, currently there are over 20 million + australians, there needs outweigh the needs of the 1.4 lucky enough to be shareholders

    a little thing called the economy joe Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118651)

    hi joe,

    Once again you write without using your brain.

    Telstra is one of the largest Australian owned companies. This means that it generates a lot of money to stimulate the economy.

    The 35k odd people who they employ also throw money back into the economy.

    Optus on the other hand has most of its staff in bangladesh, so it mostly supports the indian economy. Excellent for you and I!

    Joe, you've claimed before to be a Telstra worker. You should be bloody happy that Telstra hasnt decided to do what every other jerk company has done, and thrown all its phone staff into a pissy cheap kalcutta sweat shop.

    Be Australian. Buy Australian **** -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118645)

    And so say all of us.....................those with a modicum of common sense that is !

    Sydney Lawrence Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118645)

    I am tired of reading the opinions of Sydney Lawrence. It is all regurgitated garbage. I am neutral in this whole debate but sick of reading all these one sided arguments. Sydney tries to sound educated but comes across as more of a greedy, self centred, pompous **** Find another forum mate....

    re Sydney Lawrence Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118678)

    Keep going Syd! Without Syd all you Namby Pamby Lezzy Wezzy no I was not breast fed until I was seven Boptus bois would having nothing to whinge about...

    ..oh apart from Telstra lol lol

    re Sydney Lawrence Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118681)

    Sorry Anon, I'm going to have to defend Sydney here - I hate Telstra and every other Telstra supporter that writes on here but Sydney is harmless and pretty funny (I don't know if the funny is intentional!)

    re Sydney Lawrence Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118685)

    Because of your "blind" hatred of Telstra is the very reason Sydney is on here to add some sort of balance to the debate....

    @ re sydney lawrence Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118686)

    Exactly! How boring would it be if we all agreed!

    Seig Heil. Yes it suits. Sydney Lawrence -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118678)

    Who the hell do you think you are Anonymous (yes that would be right) to dictate from your position of shady anonymity and demand that the great Australian tradition of free speech be denied me to suit your own devious purpose.

    You find another forum MATE and cease your call for a return to the Brown Shirt days of Goebbels and Hitler. Shame on you for claiming to be an Australian,

    Fire In the Hole! me -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118704)

    *loads a mortar* thrrooommmphh! lol, kick his **** sydney!

    Godwin Anonymous -- 15/12/08 (in reply to #320118704)

    And Godwin's law is demonstrated once again. What was that? Three days to get to a Hitler comparison.

    @Be Australian. Buy Australian. Terry -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118645)

    "Every Australian, man, woman and child has a vital interest in the well being of Telstra.

    1. 35,000 Australian employees.
    2. 1.4 million Australian Telstra owners.
    3. Australians with superannuation policies.
    4. All Australians who own the Future Fund."

    That Sydney is an insult to all the Australians who work for the vast number of other carriers and ISPs in Australia, and those Australians who own shares in or are owners of those carriers or ISPs.

    When Telstra was a government owned entity I would probably have agreed with you, but now it's just another private company competing with the rest. My loyalty is to Australia, not to a private company.

    terry talking crap again Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118717)

    hi Terry

    sorry mate, but you can't take something out of context and make irrelevant and untrue statements out of them.

    the comment was valid, and has nothing to do with those who are party to the other companies.

    he didnt say they were invalid, he just stated that Telstra is vital as a part of the australian economy, and if you cant see that, well im sorry tezza but you may happen to be a bit of a moron.

    @terry talking crap again Terry -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118763)

    What Sydney said was this..

    "Every Australian, man, woman and child has a vital interest in the well being of Telstra.

    1. 35,000 Australian employees.
    2. 1.4 million Australian Telstra owners.
    3. Australians with superannuation policies.
    4. All Australians who own the Future Fund.

    Try to be a little pro Australian David."

    You can name call me all you want, but right now there is a high possibility there are more Australians employed by other telcos and ISPs then by Telstra.

    There is also the argument that Telstra is partitially foreign owned, meaning unlike other service providers (such as iiNet I believe) they aren't 100% Australian.

    The pro-Australian argument can only be stretched so far, and unfortunately saying you can only be pro-Australian if you support Telstra is illinformed and incorrect.

    Good on you Terry Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118773)

    Well the subject pretty much says it all. I read other peoples stupid comments, get all fired up and ready to reply to them and I find that you already have...

    Sydney has a point that Telstra employs a lot of Australians but they are putting all the other ISP's at a disadvantage, and I wonder what the combined total number of staff from all those other ISP's would be...

    Proud to be Australian. Sydney Lawrence -- 13/12/08 (in reply to #320118777)

    Please believe me when I say that I do not wish to disparage any company.

    Telstra is the second largest company in Australia. BHP is No.1. This fact establishes Telstra as extremely important to all Australians.

    I cannot understand the constant demonising of Telstra except that those who do so probably have financial interests in other directions.

    Also, why the complaint of the competition that Telstra provides. I was under the impression that competition is good.

    But apparently not where the National Broadband Network is concerned.

    @Terry talking more crap Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118773)

    iiNet are listed on the ASX, so i'm sure they would have at least 1 overseas investor, soo 100%, Tez? Unless of course people overseas consider them, as do many here, insignificant?

    Whether you like it or not, even if you are a Telstra hater, work for iiNet, the T4 or the CCC, there is a definite likelihood that your super fund, has your money invested in Telstra shares.

    So you are a greedy shareholder too, even indirectly as probably I am too. Like death and taxes, that's life.

    Agreed Mel Sommersberg -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118593)

    I agree David because the way I see it, Telstra thumb their noses at everything that doesn't go according to their desires.

    Every time they are asked to play nice they grab their bat and ball and go home (taking a play on the heading of another thread here). Next time they say that they aren't going to participate in a new project, like they did with ADSL2+ and now Fibre, I wish they'd stick to their guns and crawl back behind the skirting boards and allow those companies that are keen, eager and more prepared to offer us decent services the opportunity to do so.

    would you "take it" Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118668)

    Hate to be crass mel, but if you were a company and the government made demands that would ruin your business, would you fight it? or bend over and take it?

    if the answers bend over and take it then fine, but in reality, I don't think you would.

    When the government wants something reasonable, theyll probably get a reasonable response.

    come on david Anonymous -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118593)

    as the subject says, come on David. Enough anti Telstra Rhetoric.

    Basically the only service that one can get in rural Aus comes from Telstra. It was already spelt out in the proposal that the financial viability of the network blows out as you go further regional, and obviously with current technologies in place, the rollout can begin and be moved along much faster with a city start.

    The competitors/Media have had so many anti telstra statements in the past decade that i'd be surprised if all the other ISPs/telco's combined have copped the one sided drubbing that Telstra gets, are you surprised that they respond?

    If we need a regional rollout and quickly then the government needs to either throw more money towards that, or take some alternatives into account.

    You cant even claim to have taken two sides into account when writing this blog, and even your rationale for it above is one sided.

    I know it gets you a lot of hits, but come on, take some time for quality.

    Journalism?? Anonymous -- 11/12/08 (in reply to #320118566)

    David Braue's job is to stir the "pot" & therfore that means he has to continually BAG Telstra for whatever rhyme or reason.......

    That's not my job David Braue -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118662)

    My job is only to comment on the developments in Australia's telecoms industry. It is hardly my fault that Telstra is the biggest player in that industry, and that its ongoing confrontational posture puts it at the centre of any discussion about the future of Australian telecoms.

    My only hope is to foster discussion and debate about the future of this critical industry -- and by the continuous stream of opinion from both sides of the fence, I am happy to see that goal is being met. Telstra, Conroy, Optus, TERRiA, etc etc, don't operate in a vacuum, and it's only through ongoing discourse that the best policy can be shaped for the good of everybody.

    It's tricky Anonymous -- 11/12/08

    Ok, Sol's demeanor aside, DB is right in saying that they're going to start in already developed areas (rolling in or rolling out? I'm never sure which one it is)

    And yes it's very easy to say that we should start in rural and regional areas - but with the 4.7 billion, the govt expects to make a profit from that and Telstra being evil or not, wants to start in the city because there will be more of an immediate profit. (apparently)

    Hopefully one of the randoms like Axia can figure out a way to make profit from starting in the regional areas.

    The forgotten people xBeanie -- 11/12/08

    To be honest, I think you have misinterpreted the Telstra quote David. There are many people in city areas that are still stuck on dial-up. Possibly a higher number than the total rural population. I know because I was one of them until I moved.

    Should Telstra be given money to fix this? Heck no! This situation was due to their own penny pinching policies, installing ADSL blocking technology to save a few bucks when they knew that ADSL was on the horizon - and continuing well into the ADSL adoption.

    These are the forgotten people in this situation because the government give more browny points talking it up for the rural people. Don't get me wrong though, I for one am willing to pay a little extra if it means better accessibility for everyone.

    Good point David Braue -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118673)

    Dial-up is an anachronism in today's Internet and should be well in the past by now -- especially in the city areas. There is such a disparity between suburbs that you would think the growth of the market should have given everybody access to at least basic broadband by now.

    You would think.

    Are many here still using dial-up?

    didnt have a choice for a long time Paul -- 12/12/08 (in reply to #320118749)

    dial up obviously is too antiquated for todays applications and websites, and really even email these days is pretty average via dial up.

    I know for a fact that in my area, the dandenongs in victoria, that it was actually local residents fault that we couldnt get broadband, as when they went to roll cable out (both optus and telstra as far as im aware) the local council was inundated with complaints that they would have to put the cable boxes down the street, thus ruining the local residents beautiful telephone poles.

    took until about 98 or so to get ADSL out to the area after that!

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David Braue

David Braue

Journalist

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