Full Duplex by David Braue

A view from the trenches of Australian telecommunications. As the name implies, it’s a two-way conversation and we ask you not to pull any punches ... we won’t.

One asterisk can ruin your whole day

Posted by David Braue @ 18:02 37 comments

When broadband providers offer packages that you think look to good to be true, you're rarely disappointed.

So there I was, driving along Melbourne's South-East Freeway when it loomed ahead of me, larger than life: Internet service provider TPG Internet is offering a AU$69.95 ADSL2+ Super broadband package that allows 150 gigabytes a month of downloads.

As anybody who follows these kinds of things knows, that's several times the maximum that most ISPs offer. I'm sure that deal has had more than a few eager motorists nearly driving off the road in their haste to write down TPG's phone number.

There is, of course, a catch: 110GB of that limit must be used in the wee hours between 1am and 7am -- in other words, when most of us are asleep. Perhaps my imagination is limited, but the only possible thing that your average punter will do with that much bandwidth is set up about a dozen BitTorrent downloads before going to bed, then snooze away happily while their TPG service clogs up their hard drive with gigabytes' worth of poor-quality latest releases.

It would have to be a lot of latest releases indeed: by my maths, downloading 110GB in 180 hours (six hours a day times 30 days a month) would require a continuous data flow of 611 megabytes per hour, 10MB per minute, or 169 kilobytes per second. For those of us used to thinking in megabits per second, that's around 1.5Mbps of continuous bandwidth consumption, full to the brim.

Odds are that most people will run out of movies they want to download far before they get anywhere near to generating this kind of traffic, which leads me to the point of this blog: so much of marketing is an absolute myth. TPG may well offer a great service, and it may well be possible to download 110GB of data in the time allotted -- but in reality, the number 150 is nothing more than an arbitrary figure which bears little reflection to most people's actual usage habits.

So, marketers are stretching reality a bit to sell their product, you say. The sky is blue, the winter dreary, and Nicole Ritchie is so desperate to outdo Paris Hilton that she'll even try for a longer jail sentence. What's new?

Before you click away shrugging, I'd like to draw your attention to exhibit two: Dodo Internet. Also keen to cash in on the ADSL2+ fad, Dodo Internet recently launched its own ADSL2+ service, for "free". .

Presuming for a moment that your average punter has any idea what the hell ADSL2+ is, anyway, this sounds like a great deal for the average punter. Until, that is, you read the fine print -- which is a disaster for anybody considering doing pretty much anything online at all.

The fine print -- which is there to see for those that have rightly learned to be sceptical of telcos bearing gifts -- points out that while you can get speeds of up to 24Mbps using ADSL2+, Dodo has set up the 'free' plan so you get just 150MB of data before you start paying for it -- at AU$0.18 per megabyte.

Downloading 150GB of data -- for which TPG will charge you AU$69.95 -- would cost you AU$26,973.00 with Dodo. Of course, Dodo recognises this is far too much for the average punter, so it limits the price of its 'free' ADSL2+ service to just AU$29.95 per month.

Reaching that amount will require downloading just 166.38 additional MB of data, or 316.38MB if you include the 'free' 150MB. At the theoretical maximum speed offered by ADSL2+, 24Mbps, you can hit that ceiling in approximately 105.46 seconds; at more likely speeds of 1.5Mbps, you will get 1687.36 seconds (28 minutes) of 'free' ADSL2+ joy.

After this point, your shiny new 24Mbps ADSL2+ connection will be cut to 64Kbps -- about the speed of a 1996-era ISDN connection -- and you will cry profusely while beating your fists on the table and wondering why you didn't read the fine print before committing yourself to paying AU$29.95 a month for a 64Kbps Internet connection for the next two years.

Before you argue that nobody would fall for this, consider a news release I received this week, which said that since launching the free ADSL2+ deal Dodo's sales "have dramatically increased".

I am not the first one to point out how deceptive the Dodo plan is, and of course caveat emptor applies as with all things. However, I think comparing Dodo's approach to Internet marketing with TPG's highlights just how hard it is to get a realistic expectation of what broadband really entails. Telstra spent most of the early part of this decade starving the country of decent speeds as it promoted ISDN over ADSL; even now, prevailing wisdom is that we are supposed to accept that we should be thankful for services with speeds as low as 256Kbps.

If you are comfortable with this, make sure you never visit Singapore, where last December local ISP StarHub began marketing 100Mbps Internet connections with no usage caps for a maximum of S$121.80 (AU$91.44 by current exchange rates). Of course, to get that service you must live in Singapore -- but every silver lining has its grey cloud.

No wonder Australia's broadband is still failing to live up to that available in cutting-edge telecoms markets like Poland and Mexico. While we're down here trying to make sense of the ISPs' marketing-speak, the rest of the world is just getting on with doing the job.

Hiding ridiculous or unrealistic terms of service behind a little asterisk, then blaming consumers for not understanding the deception to which they have succumbed, may not be illegal under Trade Practices Act legislation (although I would welcome opinions from legal types out there). However, it hardly seems like the kind of discourse that's going to improve things on the whole.

Perhaps some full disclosure, paired with honest and consumer-friendly advertising, would be a good start -- so people can understand exactly why their broadband is so utterly sub par.

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Talkback 37 comments

    They're just playing catch-up ... Ian Bond -- 18/07/07

    Yes, it's sad that we're now seeing this type of advertising is coming our way from ISP's, but these people are simply trying to catch up to the masters of spin - Telstra.
    When is the last time you can remember any simple, un-numbered, un-asterisked sales claims from Telstra?
    Along with words like "up to .... " and "from as low as ... "
    Need I say more?

    Confusopoly Anonymous -- 18/07/07

    I work for one of the top four telcos and spend much of my day prodding marketing and legal types to use plain language and avoid asterisks. Just saw Optus' latest offer on a flyer included with a newspaper and they had an asterisk, a dagger symbol, the funny double-beam cross symbol and a tilde to point to the various bits of fine print.

    Thing is, it's entirely possible to say things clearly and still keep your point. Instead of "unlimited" you can say "no excess charges". They're just lazy!

    Buyer aware Dallas G -- 19/07/07

    Hi

    i'm a tpg reseller, now thats out, lets look at the facts.
    someone going for the tpg adsl2+ super plan WOULD probably be a seasoned user.
    $70/m is a lot for a mum/dad user.
    there are plenty of other cheaper tpg plans to cater for that type of use.
    someone going for the super plan WILL be fully aware of the limits and times.
    just look at the wp discussion on this -
    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=771894
    i doubt anyones been sucked in by a rouge * here or * there

    clear discussion with a dealer leads to clear understanding of both parties and what the user expects from the plan.

    or just walk into a telstra store and get a great bundle deal....not

    D

    Non Legal Type Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    I am not a legal type but I do believe there is wiggle room in the law to allow a ruling on fair practices with *. One only need look at GST and Airline Tickets to see that the ACCC has jumped into the act in the past (Slowly mind you).
    I must say there is a certain point where some people just plain need a good whack accross the back of the head (unfortunately some of my relatives fall into this category). I mean surely 15 years of Phone, Mobile, Cable, Dialup and now Broadband *'s means that at least some people have learnt a thing or two. Its not like any of these ploys are brilliant new strategies at selling stuff.

    TPG Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    Hoy! >=|
    Don't you badger TPG about their 150GB plan and start coming up with figures out of the air.
    Personally I sync in at 8/1Mbit.. If I was on that plan I would have no trouble burning the full 150GB just in off-peak hours. The usage is just there "IF" you want to use it. TPG obviously have a lot of spare bandwidth during those hours and are handing out data like candy. And here you are, big man with his articles, badgering them about an asterix.
    Find me a 40GB ADSL2+ plan with that much off-peak usage for $70/M and available in the same exchanges as TPG and I'll buy you a shiney new hat sir!
    Until you can I'll sit here with my 50GB of data and 256k shaping and enjoy one of the few ISPs in Australia that actually have some value in their plans.

    Now go bother Telstra or some other failure of an ISP.. don't pick on TPG for giving you value sir. >=|

    Pool's Closed.

    Whoa, wasn't bagging TPG David Braue -- 19/07/07 (in reply to #320083008)

    I could not stand here in good faith and say they're anything but a great deal -- certainly they are offering more bandwidth than anybody else that I'm aware of in the market. I was just trying to point out that that's a heck of a lot of data to be offering -- more than most people would ever use in a month, and certainly not on an ongoing basis.

    Many customers who just want the most broadband for their dollar will see that and think 'that's great' and they'd be right. Then again, as another person here pointed out, $70 a month *is* still expensive for many customers who may be better suited with a lower volume plan. Heck, I get 36GB of allowance a month and rarely come even close to filling it.

    My point was that there is a broad inconsistency in the way broadband is being marketed in Australia -- on the one hand you have companies over-delivering while providing value, and on the other you have them using deceptive advertising to suck in consumers. Consumers really need to know what you're looking for, and be aware of how the ISPs portray their services, to make sure they're getting a package that suits their needs. As broadband providers continue trying to bring in new customers, they're marketing to lots of people that wouldn't know a gigabyte from a hole in the ground. I would love to hear the results of a straw poll at a suburban shopping centre, to see just how many people can actually explain concepts like Mbps and bandwidth shaping. If potential customers don't understand it, ISPs need to help them make the right choices.

    TPG Anonymous -- 19/07/07 (in reply to #320083036)

    "If potential customers don't understand it, ISPs need to help them make the right choices."
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Hoy! >=|
    It's not the responsibility of the ISP to educate the consumers. Most people can never understand how much data they need even when you explain it to them.
    ISPs like Telstra and DODO might have some explaining to do for purposely capitalizing on the old folks, but when you're on a decent ISP like TPG whose plans have value, it doesn't matter if the mum & dad users are paying $70 for 40GB with some off-peak, or $50 for 18GB. They're getting value and the assurance that they won't be charged massive amounts for excess usage.
    They don't need other people telling them how much they're probably going to use, you can never have too much data... If they want to pay that much, then that's their choice.

    As for TPG looking "too good to be true" I hardly think having 110GB of the plan usage on off-peak is a "catch" considering that you're getting 40GB for $70. =|

    "too good" James Tichenor -- 21/07/07 (in reply to #320083084)

    I guess $90 for an identical 40gb with Internode is just expensive enough to be "true" for mr braue. Just hope they don't need to add another $20 or $40 to the price a month after you join up.

    TPG Jack moe -- 19/07/07

    Why do you bag out TPG when its simply the best value for money - even if the offpeak is not taken into consideration...

    What a stupid piece of journalism

    There are HONEST GOOD deals out there Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    Just reading the news article I get the impression that David thinks that an ISP that charges a low price or has a high data allowance, they are going to fail to deliver, or are part of some deception.

    I use www.aanet.com.au for my internet, and pay $45 a month for a 1500k plan with 16GB of data. Its the cheapest in the marketplace.

    I think that proves that there are honest and good deals out there - you just need to look. Maybe next time david writes an article, instead of pointing out the bad he should also point out the good?

    That was actually my point David Braue -- 19/07/07 (in reply to #320083024)

    See my comment above!

    Why aren't they all doing it. Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    If there is so much spare bandwidth kicking around in the wee hours (which common sense suggests there is) why don't all ISP's provide on/off peak terms on all plans. I get 40GB from Internode, which I exceed about half the time, and therefore can't justify jumping to their 80GB plan. How about not metering some of that off peak time guys!!!

    Missing the point about TPG Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    This plan can be attractive to a market segment that understands the use of scheduling, as well as other methods of downloading data during off peak periods.

    However there are some other details to be aware of before joining TPG.

    * $350 early exit charge (6 months minimum contract, up to 18 months)

    * $69.95 30 days notice of cancellation cost

    These costs are high, but not exactly unheard of in an industry where the main players have more small print in their contracts than can be found in an ant farm.

    So called "high costs" Anonymous -- 19/07/07 (in reply to #320083026)

    TPG have LIMITED the disconnection charge to $350. You pay everyone month you have left, until you hit $350 when it's capped.

    If you had an 18 month contract, and left after 6 months, for many ISP's that would incur a full pro-rata disconnection fee, (using the 40/110 plan as an example) of $840. With TPG it's $350. If you leave with 3 months left it's $210. It's done to protect TPG, because not every exchange is full of people, and they need to pay TELSTRA for the port even if someone does not replace the cancelling customer..

    Also, * $69.95 30 days notice of cancellation cost is BLATANTLY false. Look at TPG's "Additional Pricing" page where you will see that if you cancel once the contract's initial period is done, that you only have to give 30 days notice, NOT pay $69.95.

    In contract = Payout contract (why is this a surprise to anyone) and TPG graciously limit it to $350.
    Out of contract = 30 days notice.

    I came from Internode to TPG:
    Internode: Spend an hour on the phone on hold.
    Paid double the price I have with TPG.
    Had a service I was heavily convinced to sign up to use cancelled with a days notice.
    Said price then had FORTY dollars added to it, after THREE months with them.

    TPG:
    Phone operator picks up in a minute.
    Pay 2 and a half times LESS money than the plan with internode AND I get nearly 2 times the download allocation.
    Speed is faster (up to 1000 kb/s.)
    Upload is really fast (up to 100 kb/s)

    Shocking "journalism" to attack TPG over a plan they clearly state (and also consulted their main target for, weeks before fully introducing it) the fees, charges and usage pattern. This is one of the best value plans in the history of broadband, this is as good as their $50 20gb plan that introduced so many people like myself to the internet.

    This is NOT one of the best value plans in the history of broadband Anonymous -- 19/07/07 (in reply to #320083063)

    YOU appear to be one of those customers TPG caught on the rebound after being jilted by Internode's massive price hike.

    The fact that YOU are praising what most TGP users (and dealers) euphamisticly refer to as "The Hell Desk", suggests that your desire to punish Internode outweighs anything else.

    One of the reasons why "BroadBand" is going to the dogs in this country, is because of the low standard set by the major players.

    Users expect to get ripped off, and will even go as far as to defend industry practices that insure that they will be ripped off.

    Anywhere else in the 1st world and these telco's would be hauled off and shot. Not in Oz 2007. And it gets worse. Get ready for WiFAUX <sigh>

    "Hell Desk". Anonymous -- 20/07/07 (in reply to #320083080)

    YOU appear to BE a typical internode fanboi making excuses for in-excusable, price gouging behaviour.

    Internode had alot of new customers from other ISP's who put prices up (usually only $5-$10 at the most), then had the nerve to turn around 3 months later and go hike the price by upto $40. I was already paying amost $30 more than any other ISP, but I got sucked in by fanboi hype about their awesome network, and their awesome customer support, and awesome usenet.

    No, my experiences with internode and TPG cause me to "punish" internode. I clearly stated my reasons for why I don't like internode (massive price hike + removing services + crappy customer support) and why I like TPG (fast customer service + cheap + good quality internet).

    Good on you if you feel like pay $100+ more for your internet to sit on hold for an hour just to talk to someone with an australian accent, who will end up giving you the same exact pre-written spiel that you would get with the same problem at TPG.

    As for the "Hell Desk" so many problems are customer caused, and they go and turn around and blame "Those friggen indians (sic)" for not being able to help them.

    I've had internet with TPG, Exetel, Internode and back to TPG. TPG I left for bigger download limits, then left exetel because their network, p2p shaping, admins and getting banned from their forum (the only way to get help since they shitcanned their phone support and email takes months) and called an internode troll (before I'd even joined internode).

    Left internode with a hugely sour note, after the expecations built around internode, I was extremely dissapointed, crap services, huge price rises.

    I wish I never left TPG. I might have been on ADSL2+ a few months of staying with TPG for ADSL1, and saved craploads of money in the process.

    What would you consider the "best value" plans in history of broadband. James Tichenor -- 20/07/07 (in reply to #320083080)

    What would you consider the "best value" plans in history of broadband?

    ^

    If 40/110 at ADSL2+ speed for $70 a month with the potential to get PAID $30 for signing up (sign up with 18 month contract on the plan below what you want, switch to the higher plan as soon as you are connected, it moves to 12month contract and get a $30 dealer cash-back from someone like cormain) does not equal some of the best value ever, I don't know what would.

    TPG Michael -- 19/07/07

    It is not just a little *. I saw it on an add on a bus in Sydney and it clearly said 40gb peak, 110GB off peak... No need to go to the web site to find out the trap like Dodo.

    There's nothing like a well written piece Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    And this is NOTHING like a well written piece.

    David Braue, Journalist*

    *only a journalist between 1am and 7am, eg, when he's dreaming.

    Isn't it too good? Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    I am from a non English speaking background, but I believe in the title of the article you have a grammatical mistake. Shouldn't it be:
    ....that you think look too good to be true,....?
    Cheers

    ISP Advertising James SQuires -- 19/07/07

    Whilst I think he chose the wrong ISP to mention (TPG are alright), I think the gist here is the way ISP�s market their plans. For my mind, it all went downhill in the early days. Optus was offering true , unlimited cable. Telstra, being Telstra, wanted to charge their users more for a worse service, but still wanted it to be called unlimited, in order to give the marketing illusion that it was. The government body that ruled on it, for some reason sided with Telstra. That decision can be blamed for the current state. After that, why should Optus offer a true unlimited plan, when the competition was allowed to falsely claim the same? So we started seeing limits being brought in, and the dreaded astrix.
    AS for Dodo, their plans are criminal, as is their fine print. Nuff said.

    Don't bite what you can't swallow Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    Hat's off to TPG for the 40GB/110GB/$69/ADSL2 plan!
    Its what I call 'unlimited' - its hard to blow all that quota unknowingly
    Also, if its too much to download for you, then there's plenty of cheaper/lesser alternatives out there
    While I don't like TPG personally, its still an innovative product and kudos for them for marketing it and bringing more competition to the market place

    Deliberately Deceptive Marketing Rife Steven Hughes -- 19/07/07

    I agree that deliberately deceptive marketing has become the norm in Australia. Whilst Telco's are indeed the masters, many more sectors are beginning to apply the same principles. I saw an ad recently for a bank that offered 1 Billion transactions per month for only $5. A quick read of the fine print reveals a number of transaction types that are excluded.
    I personally am sick of being offered something for free, when I know that is patently not true. Ask for the free part of the deal, without any obligation to purchase the paid part, and you quickly learn that what is touted as free is not.
    I imagine there is a law somewhere that requires advertising to pass a test of reasonableness, but I'm buggered if anyone ever enforces it.

    Wrong Target, Try Again Brendan Lynch -- 19/07/07

    Let's say I accept TPG was misleding consumers with the 150Gb* for $69

    If a consumer choose this plan would they be dis-advantaged ? No not really as they still get 40Gb peak (compared to 25Gb from Telstra $119)

    Unlike Telstra UNLIMITED *Limited to 12Gb ????

    OR

    Telstra's 600Mb ADSL2+ with $150/gb at least Dodo limits the consumers costs. (I'm not supporting Dodo's dishonest position)

    Stories of Good Human interest are proportional to the amount of HARM they can do to the consumer.

    To prove my point.

    "Downloading 150GB of data ... would cost you AU$26,973.00 with Dodo" Limited to $30

    OR

    "Downloading 150GB of data ... would cost you AU$22,410.00 with TELSTRA"

    NOT Limited to $30.
    Who's The Monster ????

    We all know Telstra is expensive David Braue -- 20/07/07 (in reply to #320083072)

    The whole idea of charging per megabyte is anathema to the whole idea of broadband, where a megabyte just doesn't mean that much anymore (cf carriers that charge for mobile data by the kilobyte).

    On the other end of the spectrum, however, is it necessarily that much better to offer massive data limits that mean nothing in the real world? TPG, like every ISP, is playing its numbers on the presumption that very few of its customers will actually use anything near that 150GB limit.

    Fortunately, they have tied it to a quite reasonable and competitive price, so it's not as though they're ripping people off for the promise of bandwidth that will never get used. However, by the same logic any ISP could offer a similar deal -- and I suspect many will -- by arbitrarily picking a number out of the air.

    In a year, when everyone is offering 250GB per month (200GB offpeak) and prices have inched higher to cover the ISPs' hedging (see my earlier piece on Internode's price hikes) what will we be saying? Sure this is great marketing but we need to remember that plans structured this way will fundamentally change consumer expectations.

    your googleadsl2noob@howeasyisittobecome -- 19/07/07

    a total noob

    Efficiency of the pipe Anonymous -- 19/07/07

    Singapore may offer fast plans, however the efficiency seems to limit the true download speed. I tweaked a 6.5Mbps connection that was peaking at 1Mbps and all that I could get was 2.5Mbps.
    It is also said that some of that overhead is the monitoring of internet traffic by the Government. It is true that the Government does not censor websites, but they have been known to visit users when their surfing habits have raised suspicions.
    dslreports.com speed test database for Singapore http://www.dslreports.com/archive?c=sg shows not a lot of speed, despite the advertised speeds.
    But even a fraction of the advertised speed is faster and cheaper than most Australian experiences.

    Geography plays a part David Braue -- 20/07/07 (in reply to #320083104)

    An interesting point. I think one of the issues in Singapore is that there is only a certain amount of bandwidth going into and out of the place -- so whether there is filtering going on or not, actual speeds are going to be dependent upon how quickly the pipes can service those connections.

    This issue has led StarHub to expand its mirroring capabilities, with a range of content hosted on the island -- and therefore deliverable to customers at near the100Mbps speed -- and external content delivered on a best-effort basis, Local carriers have always done this to some extent -- for example, Optus cable users can download Optus-hosted mirrors and linked sites (for example, most university sites) at near the full 10Mbps of the cable service.

    Perhaps where the real value of 100Mbps comes in is in simultaneously accessing multiple streams eg IPTV, casual Web browsing, bandwidth-hungry BitTorrent, VoIP, etc at the same time.

    Missing the point Nick Coad -- 20/07/07

    It seems to me as though a lot of the people commenting here missed the point of the article. Some of the critics have even - quite hilariously - SUPPORTED the opinion of the article, without realising it.

    From what I can gather, and correct me if I'm wrong, the article was about ISPs dicking around with pricing to trick consumers rather than actually improving the service. The TGP ad seems misleading, and maybe in the eyes of some users here it isn't, but that's not the point. The article seems more aimed toward companies like Dodo that offer outrageously stupid plans. That being said, if you have a plan advertising 150GB for AU$69.95, then you should expect to receive that. A lot of people don't have the technical know-how to figure out that the higher number isn't necessarily useful to them. Some people confuse bandwidth speed with bandwidth limits, to make matters worse. Instead of taking advantage of these people, just reword the advertising: AU$69.95 for 40GB plan! Free off-peak downloading, up to 110GB! Now that sounds like a fantastic deal and doesn't rely on any asterisks or consumer misconceptions.

    But yes, as mentioned: we think prices like that are good because we are used to terrible prices here in Australia. We are well behind in the broadband race, and considering how fortunate we are in Australia in so many other aspects, this is really disappointing. We're capable of a lot more. Hrmph.

    Missing the point? James Tichenor -- 21/07/07 (in reply to #320083134)

    The reason people are criticising this article is because the guy who wrote it has singled out TPG as being some sort of "shonky brothers" ISP ripping people off with asterisk's and using words like "being too good to be true" and "there's a catch" when talking about the plan.

    Internode get an article on massive price rises, and the writer here goes into apologist mode for them, falling hook/line/sinker into their "It's bittorrent/youtube" propaganda.

    TPG Introduce a 40gb adsl2+ plan which is $20 CHEAPER than Internode's 40gb adsl2+ plan AND gives you 110gb in off-peak, and the writer makes them look like they are breaking into your house and stealing your money and ripping you off, using words like "this plan is an absolute myth" and "marketers are stretching reality a bit to sell their product", claiming they are using the "Asterix" to sneakily change what they are offering via marketing.

    This is completely false AND he manages to link TPG with Dodo. He puts TPG down for their supposedly "mythic" off-peak usage, how "no real consumer could use 110gb" and other presumptuous trash opinions that he has no real clue about.

    I also doubt many people will use all 110gb. That might not matter. I won't use 110gb. I do, however, like to use an off-peak time to reduce peak downloads and enable me to not worry about getting shaped.

    This is an atrocity of an article, if there was a Geneva convention for journalism, David Braue would be hanging from the gallows right now for crimes against truth and journalism.

    The original heading is "One asterisk can ruin your whole day" Anonymous -- 25/07/07

    The article does MORE to promote TPG than anything to be honest. He outlines what the AVERAGE person wouldn't know or suspect.

    Seriously this article was about the "*" not TPG's very nice plan.

    More than anything I am ready to join them when my exchange is enabled sometime at the end of this month afaik.

    Give the guy a break and read the article AS IT WAS INTENDED. Too many forum whores are ready to go in fists flying when they see the slightest thing that REMOTELY resembles an attack on something they hold close to their hearts...

    Oops sorry to use [BAD WORDS] but I think in many cases the description fits.

    Then there are the DISGRUNTLED who have a beef to display to the forums to gain relief. I can sympathise with this, having BEEN a Big "T" cable user during the early days...

    Know your rights Anonymous -- 26/07/07

    Make sure your friends and family know their rights when dealing with ISPs. Make sure they explain in detail what they want from the plan, including what they don't want.

    Under the Trade Practices Act, consumers are entitled to a refund, repair or replacement if a product fails to meet one of the following: be of merchantable quality, be fit for its purpose, match its description or sample, or be free from defects.

    If you tell them you want a plan without extra charges and you are given one, this is a breach of the Act.

    Australians - you're being fleeced! Anonymous -- 26/07/07

    I moved to Australia from the US 2 years ago. Before I left, I was on a US$60 a month DSL plan that got me unlimited downloads - yes, at a slow-ish speed (512k, if I remember right, this was 2 years ago after all). I tell my friends back in the States about the download limits and they think I'm lying. So, I ask you, Australian ISPs... dear god, WHY?

    Dodo ADSL Grump -- 27/07/07

    Seems things are getting tighter.
    I've been with Dodo for a number of years & am on a now discontinued plan.
    On my 2yr contract I get ADSL 512/256 unlimited for $45/M & am able to achieve those rates.
    I regularly use 30-35GB/M & consider this good value compared to what's presently available even if slow by present standards.
    G.

    Ban the {*} in advetising Anonymous -- 06/08/07

    Its simple the Office of Fair Trading should just ban the use of an [*] in any form of advertising. If there are conditions attached, then leave them in the same font, on the same line as the orginal "suck in headline". Nobody will bother reading the advert if its filled with this "Conditions" clutter in the main body of the advert. Advertisers would then have to change their "so called" specials. Yes I agree the advertiser has informed the public at large by referring to an [*], but lets stamp out its use, and then see what is offerred. No more "Condtions apply ads"

    Outraged Ben Gray -- 16/08/07

    Are you seriously suggesting I take my advice on broadband from someone other than Tara Reid?
    I suppose you'd like me to "do some research before I sign myself up to a 24-month contract"?
    Everyone knows the best advice on telecommunication comes from vapid soft-porn stars and fat British blokes with the UK flags painted on their face.
    The nerve.

    Too much bandwith Anonymous -- 20/08/07

    Well now, my curiosity's satisfied (someone sent me a link to this sad saga) ... seems that you all have too much bandwidth, and too much time on your hands.

    And on the topic of ISP marketting - who the hell came up with "shaped" and "shaping" .. how about some honesty in advertising - it's throttled back, plain and simple - let's not missuse a pleasant sounding word to try and hide the pain.

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David Braue

David Braue

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