Full Duplex by David Braue

A view from the trenches of Australian telecommunications. As the name implies, it’s a two-way conversation and we ask you not to pull any punches ... we won’t.

Let's build our own damn NBN

Posted by David Braue @ 14:20 62 comments

Perhaps the most frustrating thing about the national broadband network (NBN) bid is that it's so utterly predictable.

Telstra puts in its bid, Optus (and friends) put in theirs, a few others try their hands. And the outcomes are limited:

  • Telstra wins and faces an explosion of pressure for separation
  • Optus (and/or friends) win and Telstra delays the whole process with an interminable series of lawsuits over niggling procedural issues

Either way, we will see industry bodies fling one narky press release after another: wash, rinse, and repeat. If there's fibre running to the node down my street by the end of 2009, I'll eat my own shoes with mustard sauce.

(Credit: WordRidden)

Nowhere, it appears, are we getting some real, fresh thinking about the NBN: which makes me think that, despite the pejorative Telstra has often used to describe foreign involvement in Australia's network, perhaps NBN contenders really should be looking overseas for inspiration.

A good first stop would be Canada, where the realisation of a years-long dream for at least one die-hard telecoms geek promises to revolutionise thinking about broadband. That dream: get customers to buy their own fibre-optic connections. The idea is the brainchild of Bill St Arnaud, a seasoned telecoms type who currently serves as chief research officer with CANARIE, Canada's equivalent to our universities-only AARNET.

Like AARNET, CANARIE basically came into being because Canadian universities realised there was no point paying third-party telcos to talk to each other. A glut of investment and collaboration followed, and the result was one of the world's fastest nationwide specific-use networks. At the core was, and is, fibre-optic cable: loads and loads of it.

St Arnaud's theory is to replicate this project across Canada's homes by redistributing the massive debt burden of building NBN-like networks, away from the telcos and towards home-owners, accelerating Fibre to the Home (FttH) roll-outs by getting them to contribute to the cost themselves.

It's not as expensive as you might think. St Arnaud has been thinking about this stuff for years, and his latest presentation, dated June 2007, projects amortised FttH costs of around CA$400 per year per customer over five years.

Because they would own the fibre, one model would have them able to sub-lease access over their trunk: becoming, effectively, mini-ISPs delivering a raw feed to other customers in their neighbourhoods. Think Fon, but for fibre-optic cable instead of Wi-Fi.

Here's the really interesting part: to cover the cost of this potentially lightning-speed connection, St Arnaud recommends utility companies get in on the game, letting customers pay off their fibre using a per-kWh or per-MJ charge on their existing utility bills. In other words, customers would get fast broadband by adding a few cents to their normal gas or electricity rates. If this encouraged them to reduce their power consumption, they'd be getting the broadband for virtually free, and reducing their carbon footprint at the same time.

(For those with some time on their hands, St Arnaud's and other related presentations can be found here.)

Bill St Arnaud
(Credit: St Arnaud's blog)

Now, St Arnaud's idea might have drifted to the bottom of that infinitely large barrel of save-the-world ideas, except that it has been picked up and is this year apparently being trialled in Ottawa, the country's capital. Comparisons with TransACT's forward-looking roll-out of fibre across the ACT notwithstanding, this seems like a Very Good Thing.

It also makes me wonder: with all the same-old, same-old regarding the NBN, why isn't anybody talking more seriously to the utility companies? After all, they and Telstra are the only ones that have real, usable right-of-way to every house in the country.

The right partnerships, fuelled by a shared-risk model and kick-started by $4.7 billion of government money, could go a long way towards producing a far-reaching FttH network that would totally sidestep concerns that the NBN will favour either Telstra or Terria. That network could be administered by a totally impartial third-party operator with no legacy investments to protect and no other lines of business to subsidise with expected NBN returns.

Of course, there is one little problem: Australia's utility companies don't have a very good track record in this area. Years ago, when fibre was new and we joined the world in something of a fibre-optic land grab, discussions about governments snaking fibre-optic cabling along train lines and gas mains were common.

Yet none has made a major difference to much of anything: the most promising technology, broadband over power lines (BPL), effectively died a quiet death this year after long-running trials by operators such as Tasmania's Aurora and NSW's Country Energy were unceremoniously abandoned.

Could a revitalised BPL strategy form part of the core of the Tasmanian Government's NBN bid? Could Canada's Axia NetMedia be transferring St Arnaud's strategy to its own bid? Could community ownership be a hidden, secret differentiator in one of the bids currently being frantically prepared? Could a secret alliance with regional electricity companies emerge as the thing to actually make the NBN viable?

Don't hold your breath, but it would do for NBN contenders to consider all options rather than taking their normal blinkered approach. In the meantime, I'll be taste-testing the mustard.

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Talkback 62 comments

  1. What about HFC? Anonymous -- 12/09/08

    The thing nobody seems to be mentioning is that high speeds are equally achievable using the hybrid-fibre-coax network we already have in (some) parts of Australia. It's a lot cheaper than FTTN and much less distruptive to the existing network.

    The whole architecture of HFC is around moving the fibre closer and closer to the end nodes as and when bandwidth usage requires it. So it starts out with a few subscribers in a suburb and one fibre for the whole suburb. As more people sign up and start watching HD VOD or whatever, it rolls out until you have fibre at the end of your street. Still massive amounts of bandwidth available over the coax, and much MUCH cheaper than FTTN.

    Of course, if Telstra went and built a network right behind their competitor like they did with the original HFC rollout, we'd end up with neither being profitable. Again.

    1. HFC Mathew McBride -- 12/09/08

      Nothing technically wrong with HFC. The problem is given a choice between HFC and compeditive ADSL offerings quite a few people would take the ADSL.

      Plus Telstra/Optus are NEVER going to wholesale services on those networks.

  2. $400 per annum, I'm paying $360 pa now Samuel -- 12/09/08

    I just finished paying Telstra $300 for a copper connection to my new home, for the express purpose of Broadband. Over the next 12 months, I will paid another $360 for line rental.

    If I could have paid $400 per year over a period of a few years for a FttH connection, well I'm effectively paying it now, to Telstra. I think I could find another $40.

    As long I as could select my provider like my electricity, and have access to plans equivalent or better at a reasonable price or the same price I am paying now, I would not have a problem in the slightest.

    With my ISP + Line rental, I'm paying $80/month now.

    1. Ditto Anonymous -- 12/09/08

      Or let the Government roll out fibre along the side of the road and consumers pay to have fibre run between the street and the home.

      Those that can't afford to do that continue to use the copper and get ADSL.

    2. Wha about the cost factor? Terry -- 12/09/08

      The cost of running the fibre would be huge though, that's why the overall cost of the NBN is going to be so huge. And unfortunately now the government is in a situation where it doesn't have the technical resources to do it themselves, hence the NBN.

    3. $400 pa vs $150 ULL now Greg Alexander -- 13/09/08

      You're not paying $360 towards the underlying copper though, which I'd guess is what the $400 equates to.

      The underlying copper is something around $12/mth depending on how close to the city you are (I can't remember exact amount sorry)

    4. Is the $400 just for the infrastructure??? Adrian -- 16/09/08

      on Naked DSL, I'm effectively not paying for the infrastructure component, so if the $400 is for the infrastructure alone, and data is extra, then it's a mixed bag. I'm assuming this is how it would operate, bringing my $59.95 a month to just under $100 a month for FttH. If I could do it, I probably would, beats my 4mbit sync rates :)

  3. customer own fibre Anonymous -- 12/09/08

    I'd be willing to pay that $400 extra a year for FTTH/FTTP.
    and maybe a little extra to do the whole street if i could sub-let it. or even a community driven approach where everyone puts in some money would be great.
    the question we need answered is how much will it cost?
    once the cost figures are out then we will select a provider.
    if it cost me $1000 to have my place hooked up now i would gladly pay it but i know it would be proberly 10 times that or more.

  4. pointless Anonymous -- 12/09/08

    It is pointless having high speed connections if you cannot get beyond the great wall of australia at much over 200kbps.

  5. Telstra all the way... Anonymous -- 12/09/08

    To look at the situation logically here, the most efficient way to get this FTTN network going is just to award the NBN to Telstra.

    Its going to **** Optus and the others off, but they will get over it. Telstra have the resources, the network know how etc... They can get it done (reasonably) quickly and we're not going to be waiting another 10 years.

    If Optus or anyone else gets their hands on Telstra's line, you can be sure this will wind up in the High Court, afterall, the network is owned by Telstra 'shareholders'.

    Luckily though, ADSL2 is more the sufficient considering the bulk of the websites we're visiting aren't even capable of delivery the content fast enough. The input must be equal to the output.

    1. I smell propaganda Terry -- 12/09/08

      "If Optus or anyone else gets their hands on Telstra's line, you can be sure this will wind up in the High Court, afterall, the network is owned by Telstra 'shareholders'."

      The Telstra network is owned by Telstra shareholders, that's it. It may come as a shock to you but Optus lease bandwidth off Telstra right now (ie. they use a Telstra line) and that isn't going to court, just like Telstra lease bandwidth off Optus in certain locations, and once again that isn't going to court.

      Illegal taking of a line yes, but no-one has even mentioned utilising the private assets of another telco with no payment.. The sole reason why the other bidders have asked for Telstra network details is so they can lease bandwidth in certain areas in order to roll the network out quicker, after what is the point in delaying the rollout while waiting a fibre to get laid when there is adequate bandwidth on a fibre already there that can be leased.

    2. Some "Tierra" facts Anonymous -- 13/09/08

      Terria - " We dont particularly care who builds the NBN . . . . . "

      Terria - "The first thing I'll do if we win is call Telstra to offer the most significant equity stake in Terria" !!!!

      Terria - "Our NBN proposal is based on us getting a complete monopoly"

      Terria - Our proposal is based on Telstra forced to put approx. $7 billion dollars p.a. worth of fixed wire traffic across the NBN.

      If the aim was to delay Telstra building FTTN Then they have succeded.

      But as graphically demonstrated by OPEL fumbling $946 mill worth of FREE Govt money.

      They have no chance of doing the NBN.

    3. facts Anonymous -- 18/09/08

      Ah, isn't it great when you can pick and choose 'statements' to build your case.

      One fact you overlooked: Telstra had the opportunity to roll out fiber for years and years. They did have the monopoly, they did have the profits and they did have the technology. The only reason they didn't is because it was easier to make a lot of money with out-dated technology then it was to invest the profits for the future.

    4. 2 things Terry Terry loves Terryia -- 13/09/08

      1. Where does Telstra use Optus bandwidth? Simple answer - in your dreams.

      2. there has been no talk of using the assets with no payment, there has been a lot of talk of actually taking the asset away from Telstra altogether

    5. Facts are only facts if they are true Terry -- 13/09/08

      "But as graphically demonstrated by OPEL fumbling $946 mill worth of FREE Govt money."

      How exactly did they fumble that money when they never actually got that money?

      --

      "1. Where does Telstra use Optus bandwidth? Simple answer - in your dreams."

      Not for primary links but there is bandwidth leased for redundant paths.

      "2. there has been no talk of using the assets with no payment, there has been a lot of talk of actually taking the asset away from Telstra altogether"

      Can you provide a link for that? I have seen nothing indicating the removing of Telstra's assets at no charge. Doing that would be illegal anyway since Telstra is a pubically listed company, the government can't just acquire assets from them on a whim.

      And nice name by the way, pity (as I've said numerous times before) I'm not really for Terria winning the bid either.

    6. "True Competition" Anonymous -- 13/09/08

      "But as graphically demonstrated by OPEL fumbling $946 mill worth of FREE Govt money."

      Still crying over spilt milk. Senator Conroy should be congraulated!!!

      What this country NEEDS Senator Conroy is "True Competition" not the over regulated stuff OPTUS has sponged off under the HOWARD/COOONAN years!!

      Only then will we ALL get the NBN for the future!!

    7. Wrong Anonymous -- 13/09/08

      "Not for primary links but there is bandwidth leased for redundant paths."

      Sorry, but they don't. They may consider it if they want to cut off Queensland ;-)

    8. So do I Anonymous -- 13/09/08

      "Illegal taking of a line yes, but no-one has even mentioned utilising the private assets of another telco with no payment."

      Actually, the G9 proposal put to the ACCC not only did that, but went one step further. Their proposal was to charge Telstra whatever they had to pay for line rentel (i.e. nett payment of zero) plus a minimum of $10/month to Telstra so they could rent their own lines back. And the extra $10 wasn't for broadband. All Telstra would have had access to at that price would have been a phone service - something they already had.

      Good little earner, though. Minimum of $10/month for 12 months over 10 million lines is $1.2B per year cash subsidy straight from Telstra to G9. No wonder they were claiming they could sell broadband on the cheap.

      Will Terria have the gall to put this rip off forward again?

    9. NBN is about moving forward, not living in the past Terry -- 13/09/08

      "Actually, the G9 proposal put to the ACCC"
      "Will Terria have the gall to put this rip off forward again?"

      And those 2 quotes from your post spell it out, G9 is not Terria, G9 is a thing of the past, move on and let's deal with the current NBN bids not historic groups. That's the sort of thing that nowwearetalking would be posting.

    10. What the...? Anonymous -- 14/09/08

      Are you seriously claiming that G9 and Terria have nothing in common? Many people use alleged bad behaviour by Telstra to support then either not being awarded the NBN, but it seems if G9/G8 can simply change their name, their antics of the past are forgiven.

      Be consistent. If you want to ignore Terria's past, you must also ignore Telstra's, and everyone else's for that matter.

    11. Get your facts straight Terry -- 14/09/08

      "Are you seriously claiming that G9 and Terria have nothing in common?"

      I never said that, I am fully aware that the companies making up Terria are more or less the same that made up G9, I am also aware that management of G9 and Terria are different.

      What I don't support though is someone giving a massive spiel on something G9 did, and something that Terria has not done, and then at the end saying "Will Terria have the gall to put this rip off forward again?". Terria has never put that suggestion forward, the management in charge of G9 did, instead of creating FUD on what might happen why don't we concentrate on what is happening.

      "Be consistent. If you want to ignore Terria's past, you must also ignore Telstra's, and everyone else's for that matter."

      And for the record I haven't brought up anything to do with Telstra's past, that once again is you creating FUD by jumping to conclusions on things that I might say in the future (and won't say anyway) but haven't yet.

    12. @nbn Anonymous -- 15/09/08

      wakey wakey terry, no one who is a realist, can seriouly believe terria and g9 are not one and the same. thats the sort of thing the tttt would be posting.

      or perhaps you are on a james bell type $ for comments deal to, that would explain it, haha

    13. Where's my cheque? Terry -- 15/09/08

      "or perhaps you are on a james bell type $ for comments deal to, that would explain it, haha"

      Well I have to agree, since I'm not yelling and screaming "Go Telstra" someone is obviously paying me. Clearly it's not Telstra, but I've also said I don't think Terria should get the bid, so I'd say they wouldn't be paying me either. I guess this leaves it up to the other bidders, so which one of them do you believe is paying me for my comments?

    14. @where's my cheque Anonymous -- 15/09/08

      maybe james is paying you from his own porsche kitty via his chums down at tttt. because as someone (like him) who claims impartiality you sure have a strange way of demonstrating it. terria and g9 aren't the same, c'mon now, even james and the tttt chums wouldn't try to pull that one.

    15. Now that's a laugh James Bell -- 16/09/08

      Is accusing myself and others of taking cash for comments really the best argument you can come up with? I find it highly amusing you keep coming back to this line when you run out of other things to say, and you're now even using it in discussions where I haven't contributed! Perhaps you should call on the help of SJT because at least even he occasionally had something worthwhile responding to. Your arguments (if we can even classify them as this) are borderline moronic! You should definitely asking questions when you can’t even post anonymously without standing out.

      Instead of accusing everyone who doesn't like Telstra of having some kind of agenda, why not actually read what some of us have to say? If you disagree with points being made then contribute to the discussion in more courteous manner and explain your reasons, rather than always resorting to your pointless insults, accusations and conspiracy theories.

    16. @now thats a laugh Anonymous -- 16/09/08

      please continue the laugh, because frankly all i am doing is what you do but in reverse. *instead of accusing everyone who likes telstra of having some kind of aganda, why not actually read what some of them have to say*? so perhaps you should take your own advice. unfortunately, you are so one eyed, trying to communicate with you courteously as you request is a lost cause. as for *you should definitely asking questions when you cant even post anonymously without standing out*. is that swahili?

  6. $400 in Canada, ? in Oz What type of mustard do you like? -- 13/09/08

    The $4.7B is only one part of the cost, the government contribution; the total cost is expected to be about $20B or more.

    With about 6 million households, about a 40% take up of this concept (which is a very high estimate) you get 2.4 million homes.

    This becomes $8,333 per home, more like $1,700 per year. Then you add the value added services on top such as the internet plans, TV, security etc etc you add another $600 per year.

    Now my question is ... How many of you will be willing to pay $200 per month for internet access?

  7. Telstra Anonymous -- 13/09/08

    This Telco needs to go.

    Technology in this country is being delayed by the "shareholders of this company".

    The only people who are stupid enough to use Telstra and get ripped off by them are the same people who are 'shareholders'. (Yes Mums and dads).

    Give me a break! I finally stopped paying telstra last month when I switched to Naked ADSL. Its good to hurt the 'shareholders' of telstra.

    1. Another Anti-Telstra Rant!! Anonymous -- 13/09/08

      These comments show what "idiots" the Anti-Telstra brigade are!!!

      "Its good to hurt the 'shareholders' of telstra."

      Obviously you would rather not support an Australian company & see prophets go to foreign owned SINGTEL/OPTUS!!

    2. Australian Telco + American executives = American Telco RL -- 14/09/08

      Telstra is being run by AMERICANS!! So your rantings of Optus just shows how much of a hypocrite you really are!

    3. (Australian Telco + American Executives = American Telco) * Idiot Factor = Stupi Anonymous -- 14/09/08

      Who an organisation decides to operate their business does not dictate ownership - Telstra was sold by the Australian Government to the Australian public (well in majority share anyway, I know there are some international investors). To make this sort of comment shows just how out of touch you are with the business, the environment and commercial interactions.

    4. Telco religious war huh? Terry -- 14/09/08

      "Obviously you would rather not support an Australian company & see prophets go to foreign owned SINGTEL/OPTUS!!"

      I think you mean profit, not prophet :-)

      I'm not going to argue that the majority shareholder in Singtel is the Singapore Government, but both Telstra and Singtel are listed on the ASX, so everyone in this country is able to purchase shares in either one.

      The foreign ownership of Optus by Singtel has merit but kind of falls over on the basis that Australians do own shares in Singtel. Just like saying Telstra is an Australian owned company falls over on the basis that there are overseas shareholders.

      There is also the issue that Optus employ just over 10,000 Australians, and Telstra employ just over 40,000. Sure Telstra has a lot more, but it's difficult not to argue both of them are valuable to the Australia based on the number of Australian workers they have.

      Bottom line is both Telstra and Optus are valuable to Australia, and all foreign ownership arguments are purely hot air.

    5. Don't you love it. Anonymous -- 18/09/08

      Everytime this "issue" comes up: Telstra is Australian and Optus is an alien invader. You dont' want to see your money go overseas.

      Well, good on ya. So that means you're only flying Qantas, you don't fly Virgin or Singapore Airlines, you don't buy any products at Woolworths or Coles that are imported. You probably don't drive a car, or you check first where the oil comes from. You don't bank with any other than the big four.
      Believe it or not: this is a global economy and the best company might survive. So put the focus on 'good' instead of 'Australian'. If the Australian is good, choose that, if not...
      The only ones that keep on telling us to buy the 'Australian' one, are the ones that can't / won't compete on quality.

    6. @dont you Anonymous -- 18/09/08

      ok, so don't whinge when your precious it job gets outsourced to india, afterall it is a global economy.

  8. Moores Law SoulSolutions -- 13/09/08

    One thing is for certain, technology will only get faster and cheaper. I hope they concentrate on the backbone of the network, super fast connections to Asia and the US, mulitple connections to all major cities (so they don't get cut every 6 months).

    I like the idea of the user option to run fibre to their home, it will be pricey at first but in a few years will be cheap. Just make it worthwhile, give me a Gigabit connection to the world and I'll pay a few thousand dollars, don't do a TransACT and offer something slower then ASDL2.

    Other option is to go wireless and ditch the expensive cables to homes - just run fibre to broadcast towers around the Australian suburbs and then we connect using 3G. Surely this is more forward thinking - not only get high speed to all homes but also enable some amazing mobile apps to be created.
    Surely the most expensive part of the network would be the labour putting into 10 million homes - remove this completly with wireless.

    1. Wireless is shared bandwidth! Anonymous -- 15/09/08

      Mobile (3G) and wireless technology is not the answer. It is shared bandwidth.

      I'll give you an example. You have three walkie talkies. You say something on one, you can be heard on the other two. You try to say something on two of them, and the third one gets a garbled signal.

      ADSL and Fibre do not have this problem as you have an exclusive "tube" instead of a shared one. You say something down your phone line, it only goes to the recipient, and your neighbour can use their phone at the same time to call someone else. They don't interupt each other.

      Wireless is a cheap, temporary, stop gap measure at best for filling in black spots. I'd much rather have a real connection for me, instead of having to share it with everyone else. We have all seen how stop gap measures have negatively impacted on communications infrastructure in this country, and it is best we avoid having more of them.

      You may see "upto 14Mbit/s" on the advertising, but when 1,000 other people are using the same tower as you, everyone is ground down to 14Kbit/s. Putting up more towers is expensive, and lots of community groups lobby against it because they believe that mobile phone towers will cause their children to become sterile and grow an extra arm.

    2. re: Wireless is shared bandwidth! Andrew Leane -- 16/09/08

      Infact, most fibre is shared too it's just that the bandwidth is so incredibly huge that many people can use the line at once. (think the undersea sea cables, i don't have exclusive right to that line when i download from America) The problem with wireless is that the total bandwidth is low so there is less to share around. This will improve with time.

  9. Let's build our own damn NBN Anonymous -- 13/09/08

    asking people to pay for the fibre themself is ridiculous, households dont need another bill in the current economic environment, Only those with large incomes or with little responsibility's would like the idea. It would create a second class internet citizen in australia.

    1. Another bill? warren -- 13/09/08

      considering fibre would replace your phone line and Telstra's line rental is $30/month x 12 months = $360/year, you're looking at an extra $40/year in the first five years. Big. Deal.

      I'd happily pay the extra $40/month for the benefit you'd get out of it.

    2. Another bill? Anonymous -- 14/09/08

      400$ is the cost of only laying the fibre per year for 5 years, not including operational costs and maintaince even after you owned the fibre the telcos would come up with a way to still have a rental/monthly connection fee ontop of it, aswell as your phone and internet fees. With huge government budget surpluses why should the average person have to pay for infastructure the government should supply,

  10. Tasmania warren -- 13/09/08

    Word about town here in Tas is that the state govt's NBN proposal will probably feature some degree of FTTH for metro areas and wireless last mile delivery.

    They already have the fibre backbones in place (a steal when they bought them from Downer EDI), additional fibre, radio towers, power poles and other easements via Aurora and Transend, they have the deployment experience through TasCOLT.

    Most of all, they have a premier who is not just IT savvy, but has a degree in the subject. If they drop the ball with a weak proposal, it's going to be VERY embarrassing for him at a personal level.

    BPL was canned because it was viewed as a dead end, particularly in a state which may well have the most publicly owned optic fibre per head of population.

    1. Fantastic David Braue -- 14/09/08

      That sounds like a great combination. If anyone has more information on the project, I'd definitely love to hear about it -- drop me a line!

      It hasn't had much focus but I reckon having an entire state government in the NBN bid is the dark horse in this whole thing.

    2. Tassie Jobs?? Anonymous -- 15/09/08

      I know Telstra has supported Tasmanians with much of their operations down there & believe me it was political (Remember the Harradine deal to set up call centres!!)

      If I was the Premier of Tasmania you think he would be supporting a pro-Telstra NBN?

  11. fibre for home Anonymous -- 14/09/08

    Good grief, if we can design and built the large single span bridge, design and build the Snowy Mountains scheme, then good grief we can build this. All we need is a good tech to tell us how and the rest of us will simply build it. You need trenches - simple tell every one in the street how wide, how deep and we will do it. For too long we have let it to govermet devices - so nothing gets done- we can no longer afford to be behind the eight ball. So let's fix it - simple

    1. I've got a pickaxe in the shed David Braue -- 17/09/08

      If we dig it, will they come? Because I for one am happy to spend a Saturday afternoon digging out a trench through the nature strip to accommodate the fibre.

      My neighbours are welcome to borrow it when I'm done, if they don't already have their own.

      Telstra, Terria, et al -- are you listening? Will this help? The new generation of diggers are waiting on your instructions.

    2. as it is Anonymous -- 17/09/08

      Australia is too busy brewing beer and producing toilet paper to do anything as constructive as building its own NBN. Aussie Made belongs in the fridge and dunny. I would be suprised if Australians could dig a trench. That's why there are other countries, to fill in Australia's incapacity to do anything right these days.

  12. Wipe The Slate Anonymous -- 14/09/08

    in all honesty, both telstra and optus need to dissappear off the face of the planet. both telco's use equipment which is up to 15 years behind the rest of the world. we have one of the most out dated copper networks around. and you can guarantee the fibre network wont be anything special with the good old cost cutting methods these companies use.

    1. Next Generation Networks Mark Clark and The Barking Sharks -- 15/09/08

      Our network is catching up, since Telstra and other telcos alike are in the process of rolling out some very high capacity DWDM equipment nationally. In the area of 3G, the other carriers are catching up, although sluggishly, which seems to be the way of foreign interest these days in telecommunications infrastructure here.

      What gets me though are people who try to advocate a complete clean slate approach to our problem. Have they really thought it through, that we are dealing with a situation which have some immovable constants, ie. known as the 'real world'.

      The proposed FttH solution would work, if Telstra was willing to come to the table on it, and

      1- decide it will opt for fibre instead of copper and
      2- willing to handover its infrastructure to communities.

      But till then telecommunications like all industries is a business.

      I'll digress and point out the Canada's case isnt a national roll out, and isnt bound by universal service agreements. Meaning, that it is rolled out as a special project very much self contained and isolate , being in control of the businesses, government and engineers that will build it and provide the business model for it. This isnt the case here.

  13. Hello? Did someone forget Telstra? Jack Johnson -- 15/09/08

    Lets no ignore the elephant in the room before we push forward our utopian ideas for how to build NBN. Any fibre or copper build has to go through Telstra and requires its consent.

    How is it that someone can propose that communities build their own fibre without addressing how communities are going to be able to have Telstra's consent and be a willing participant in handing its monopoly over; or rather (minus the propaganda) become a charity basket-case?

    You started well in your article pointing out our very limited options due to overwhelming factors that restrict us from incumbents. Yet you go on for the remaining 2/3rds of the artcile ignoring and not addressing this issue, while you put forward your idea of FttH. Sure, if we were building from a clean slate and Telstra didnt exist.

    1. Telstra is NOT Public Property Anonymous -- 15/09/08

      Dead right!!! That is the problem here because to dream up these ideas is great but I cannot see them being able to do it without the Big T.

      All these ideas are great on paper but they wont work without Telstra's PSTN.

      Telstra is no longer "Public Propert" anymore!!

    2. Telstra Consent Simon -- 23/09/08

      If you want to cut your own trench to your property boundary, you can do this anytime. If you want to link this in a community of interest, you only need your council's permission, not telstra's. You only need telstra's permission if you want to use their easements.

      There's plenty of scope for communities to bypass existing telcos at the local loop but you need to connect your fibre for backhaul to a carrier.

    3. @telstra Anonymous -- 23/09/08

      agreed, simon.

      but unfortunately everyone still has this stupid notion that telstra should pay because they are owned by the *taxpayer*????????????????

  14. Utility Companies?! Anonymous -- 15/09/08

    Great idea, one I'd like to see - but companies like Energex are even further behind than the Telcos in the technology rollout stakes. They still fight tooth and nail to put power lines in the air here on the Gold Coast. And I can't see them cable tying fibre optic runs onto those power pylons...

  15. NBN for the Humans!!! Retard Essence -- 15/09/08

    The best way to decide how to build the NBN would be to take everyone who has ever posted on a message board about how they think the NBN should be built and completely ignore them. They have no capacity to gain anything from each others' arguments therefore they cannot learn, therefore they cannot think, therefore they are not human therefore they are not allowed to participate in democracy.
    Leave it up to the humans how to build the network.

    1. nbn not for you then!!! Anonymous -- 15/09/08

      that includes you too then, non human, smart**se. haha.

    2. not for me?? Retard Essence -- 15/09/08

      UGGGH! Now im caught in a paradox!
      Thats shagged the space time continuum... my internet is implodi....

    3. @not for me Anonymous -- 15/09/08

      more likely, caught with your hand wrapped snuggly and lovingly around your joystick....

  16. Stuck in an old paradigm Anonymous -- 15/09/08

    Telstra could easily do what BT has done but appears to see more value in adopting strategies to maintain margins from its legacy assets. The experience elsewhere is declining margins from these types of assets.

    There is perhaps a failure of strategy, or a view in Telstra that there is no need to implement a modern SIP based services infrastructure when such high margins can be maintained from existing legacy assets. A SIP based infrastructure could be used internally to make the Telstra more efficient (reduce operational network costs) and be turned out to its customers (as BT is doing) to create more demand (revenues) for its information services (replacing legacy revenues).

    Telstra has forcefully articulated its right to determine what it thinks is best for its shareholders (a narrow stakeholder group) but if we look at the issue from a broader national perspective the negative impacts on the economy in terms of poor and expensive data services could be significant.

    1. Business Case Anonymous -- 16/09/08

      Or it could be they want to extend the life of their copper a bit longer, and when the numbers come in and all things are considered, they find the business case for FttN to be better than FttH. Again, its got nothing to do with which technology is superior (which FttH obviously is) but is it what they company wants to do with its assets? FttH is inevitable, the question is now or later, in Telstra has opted for later, as it think its the best strategy, and has met the governments requirements.

      You certainly cannot argue a case, from a technology stand point alone, its pointless - as pointless as saying FttH is superior technology , so lets ignore all else, and go witt that.

  17. Dont give it to Telstra Michael Nelson -- 29/09/08

    Telstra are a national disgrace their service is non existent.

    My partner cannot get a landline, due to telstra's failing antique cables. They are not interested in fixing the cable.

    CDMA is now failing and their Next G network is a pathetic joke. Next G coverage is barely better than the existing GSM Network.

    Next G is a 1.1 billion dollar flop which only delivers massive amounts of hype.

    1. LOL James -- 29/09/08

      CDMA has been off for months, if yo think it is only now failing then you obviously don't make too many calls. I have used a Next G phone and modem all over the country and love it, this is also backed by a recent APC article that shows that it is the best network by far. Not sure about what service who want, probably someone at your home to dial the numbers and turn on your computer, in terms of network service it is fantastic.

    2. HYSterria fan Anonymous -- 29/09/08

      Oh please...you "tierra" boys are just as desperate as the dropkicks running this $8 shelf company!!

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David Braue

David Braue

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