Full Duplex by David Braue

A view from the trenches of Australian telecommunications. As the name implies, it’s a two-way conversation and we ask you not to pull any punches ... we won’t.

Competition guided by Telstra's heavy hand

Posted by David Braue @ 11:23 68 comments

What if Shell, Caltex, Mobil and all the other petroleum giants decided tomorrow to stop selling unleaded, and announced that they would only manufacture and sell LPG from now on?

Chaos would, of course, ensue — as would the anger of millions of livid motorists demanding the companies retract the decision or cover the cost of converting vehicles purchased on the assumption that the appropriate petrol would always be available.

This is pretty much what happened with Telstra this week, as the telco's decision to introduce Remote Integrated Multiplexer (RIM) equipment — which increases the number of services an exchange can deliver over existing lines — into its Deakin, ACT exchange brought into sharp focus the dangers of Telstra's continuing monopoly over the country's local loop.

RIMs, aka digital loop carriers, are useful for increasing the density of services that can be delivered from an exchange (in this case, the politician-heavy area immediately west of Parliament House). However, the configuration changes they introduce — essentially, moving the analog-to-digital conversion point closer to the customer so a higher volume of digital data can be bundled over existing copper lines — will apparently render obsolete existing DSLAMs installed at that exchange.

Telstra, of course, won't make the change without ensuring continuity of service for its own customers. Though, other ISPs won't be so lucky: the move is an inconvenience for Internode, TPG, iiNet and Optus, all of which have installed their own ADSL2+ gear in the Deakin exchange. Customers connected to those nodes will have to either wait until their ISPs reconfigure or replace their equipment, start reselling Telstra's ADSL2+, or switch to Telstra's uncompetitive ASDL2+ services simply so they can stay online.

Telstra can return its competitors back to square one, picking off customers while the competing ISPs scramble to regain their footing.

The experience in Deakin has ominous implications for the state of play in the local exchange. Simply put, installing RIMs in any exchange means Telstra can return its competitors in any such exchange back to square one, picking off customers while the competing ISPs scramble to regain their footing in those exchanges.

This result is a punishing blow for choice in Australian broadband and — although we are only talking about one exchange at the moment — a harbinger of worrying times ahead. Little wonder that the chronically anti-Telstra Competitive Carriers Coalition was all over the announcement, branding the whole fiasco an "anti-competitive situation" and calling for immediate ACCC intervention.

While the ACCC can intervene in cases of anti-competitive behaviour, the troubling thought here is that the current situation is occasioned by Telstra simply upgrading its local loop to cope with increased demand — or, at least, that's what Telstra is sure to argue. An ACCC intervention, or at least one blocking the RIM move, could simply disadvantage customers another way.

This incident highlights the ongoing risks of placing the entire future of ADSL2+ in Telstra's hands, but things being as they are there seem to be few viable alternatives for competitors. Fibre would seem to be one way of shifting the bottleneck out of the exchanges, yet with Telstra out of the running for the NBN there is little incentive for the carrier to move in this direction at anything but its own pace.

The NBN would resolve the situation by shifting the bottleneck away from the local exchanges — just as cars that run on solar power alone would be a solution for the suddenly unleaded-deprived automobiles I mentioned above. However, like mass-market solar-powered vehicles, an actual, real, working NBN is still so far away that it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. All this event does is reinforce the argument that Australian broadband is better off without Telstra's involvement.

With Telstra out of the running for the NBN there is little incentive for the carrier to boost exchange fibre at anything but its own pace.

Those of you with intimate technical knowledge of the systems at hand may have ideas about how this impasse could be resolved — if so, please share them below. At face value, however, it appears that Telstra has once again shown that competition in Australian broadband will only happen as, when and how it allows.

Telstra supporters often chide competitors for under-investing in their own solutions — but how can one blame them? Competitors simply do not have the infrastructure control — or, it is now clear, the infrastructure certainty — to justify broad alternative investments that can be nixed at Telstra's whim. In Deakin, they find themselves at an impasse and reliant on the historically slow, minimally effective intervention of regulators.

One imagines the architects of competition policy, now most of a decade and a half ago, would be rolling in their graves — or their armchairs, as the case may be. Is this really how broadband competition is supposed to work?

Advertisement

Talkback 68 comments

    Poor analogy Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    The oil company example is very poor.

    Telstra is not announcing "no more ULL" nationally - just one outlet, with about 40 customers, loses it's ULL capacity (built on technology about to go the way of the dodo anyway).

    So it is more akin to Caltex announcing it won't sell diesel at just one of its 5000 service stations, so 40 customers will have to buy their fuel elsewhere.

    I think I read that this move by Telstra affects .0005% of ULL services, so keep it in context please ot just jump on the hysteria bandwagon

    mobile broadband Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125137)

    "so 40 customers will have to buy their fuel elsewhere. "
    but can they buy it elsewhere? Telstra says NO!

    Optus/Virgin and Vf/ 3 mobile broadband here we come. open up the backhaul.

    Maybe.. Reece -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125137)

    but it sure sets up a nice precedent for smelstra doesn't it.

    guessin we will find out one way or another soon enough.

    "Buy their fuel elsewhere" Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125137)

    Yeah, sure, they'll just drive over to the next exchange and fill up there... wait... oh yes, I forgot... we're talking about buildings, not cars...

    Those 40 customers are indeed being given a choice. Their choice ammounts to "buy our -extremely- overpriced and significantly under-value product, or go without."

    Great analogy Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125137)

    But if the price of diesel at other servos was 50c more per litre...

    Great Mel Sommersberg -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125166)

    A moot point since only Telstra has expensive ADSL.

    I dunno about that Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125137)

    I dunno... Optus can be fairly expensive (not so bad as smelstra tho). Anywho, could this have been better resolved by giving other ISPs more notice to this change so they can better prepare for it? P.S. aahhh Smellstra, that's a good one :D

    Cutting out customers Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125191)

    No giving greater notice to the other ISPs would not help the situation. It would just mean they'd know further in advance when they are going to lose their customers.

    The wholesale customers can't upgrade anything to keep these customers on their own equipment, because there are no longer copper lines reaching their equipment. And Telstra doesn't let anyone else install equipment in RIM cabinents (there's no physical space).

    RIMs have not been installed for years Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    Some facts would be nice - Telstra has not used RIMs for years, and the reason is a building is being sold and so Telstra has to move out. There is nothing stopping the competitors building their own building next door to the exchange and running a tie cable to the MDF, except that would mean spending money

    Options for Carriers Michael -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125148)

    If that's the case and they will be re-terminating the copper for this DA somewhere else why not maintain copper back to the main exchange? The question is are Telstra replacing this "subexchange" with a CMUX or with an actual exchange where EIC is even possible.

    Some facts would be nice TelstraSpinMakesMeDizzy -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125148)

    Competitiors have tried building their own buildings before and intercoonnecting, and Telstra would not let them. On top of that do you know if there is even land available to build on, etc.
    RIMs are old technology and Telstra has shown once again its anti-competitive streak in disconnecting competitors instead of competiting with them. This sets a very dangerous precendent for the future if Telstra is allowed to keep a strangehold of Australias telco sector.

    Yeah sure...and I have a bridge to sell Mark -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125148)

    Umm as a consumer I am now unable to upgrade to ADSL2+ with my provider of choice due to a Telstra RIM, so as you said in your opening statement, some facts would be nice.

    All too common... Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    Unfortunately this is far too common. Ignoring the Deakin exchange "upgrade" for a moment - but RIMs are being installed all over the place.

    Right now I'm looking at building a new home in a new estate. Telstra, it seems, is fitting most new estates (right across Australia) with RIM technology.

    In other words, even if the local exchange supports ADSL2+ through a different provider, you won't be able to access it. I'm facing this scenario at the moment.

    This is backwards thinking. We should be enabling faster broadband in the new estates, not limiting them via RIMs. This is a cost cutting measure by Telstra and I feel this is really holding back Australia's broadband.

    And to make matters worse, the RIMs can generally support ADSL1, but they are limited to a small number of ports (which won't cover all the houses in the new estate).

    People who have the money to build often have the money to spend on broadband, but they are being knocked back because there aren't enough ports to go around.

    This is absolutely ridiculous in 2009, and why I have a have a complete distrust of Telstra.

    Estate developers have a choice Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125149)

    Estate developers have the choice of which technology and provider installs into their estate. They can choose Telstra CMUX, Telstra Velocity fibre or a competitive fibre provider to install.

    While Telstra is generally backwards-thinking, the estate developers can actually choose to be forward-thinking themselves if they choose to think at all.

    Same situation here Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125149)

    RIM with limited ports, no ADSL2+ & I'm the only lucky one in this street able to get ADSL1.
    Both my neighbours have declined to accept Smelstra's generous wireless offeings & are stuck on the only affordable alternative...dial-up.

    T#lstra RIMs equal substandard internet options Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125149)

    I agree. For those of us not living in older suburbs, the broadband options are a joke. In a new suburb/estate like mine, telstra decide to save a few dollars installing a substandard RIM cabinet. I am limited to 1.5mb adsl. If I want 8mb connection (which I am told at length is not guaranteed because telstra can limit the speed to 3mb/s if the backhaul is to congested), I need to pay $80 or more per month for the privilege of a small speed increase and less downloads. My exchange has been ADSL2+ enabled for years but because of the RIM (thanks to telstra) I cannot access the 2+ service because a RIM is a 'break in the line'.

    Makes me angry that a company likes Telstra cuts corners like they do and leaves consumers in the cold. New estates should equal the best but apparently they equal substandard internet.

    Makes it more of a joke when you realise friends and family in older areas can have 24mb/s ADSL2+ from $40-50 per month with double / triple the downloads I get for my $55 1.5mb adsl plan...

    Bring on fibre to the home (fingers crossed) with any company but telstra.

    I am glad as a shareholder they were booted from the process. Their arrogance finally catches up to them. Interested to see how they will dig themselves out of this mess.

    Lets have it both ways Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    I am not an expert on communications technology - but this seems to be the usual lets bag Telstra line. After all they always provide poor service, don't do what is necessary to upgrade services for their customers.

    But hang on they are trying to upgrade their services for the customer. But they aren't alowed to do that if it inconveniences their competitors.

    Exactly what are Telstra supposed to do? Is it reasonable to expect them to run duplicate services, which may mean duplicating the cables run, just to make their competitors life easier? Maybe the competitors would like to foot the bill for maintaining the duplicate services?

    While I am sure Telstra are not without fault, it does seem that there is no response that won't have somebody attacking them.

    And before the usual attacks start - I don't work for them, have only worked for them for 12 weeks in a 20 year career, and don't own shares either.

    Update the owners of Hardware Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125153)

    Telstra should of given notice in advance to the owners of hardware in their exchange that they will no longer be able to run a service that they are paying for, and to work togeather to be able to work out a solution to keep people connected at the time of the cutover.

    update of the exchange Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125159)

    Telstra has given notice. as per current new's has reported. the other suppilers have to fix there own problem and not rely on telstra for an easy fix.

    But they aren't! Tim B -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125153)

    Telstra are NOT trying to upgrade their services for even their own customers in this case. All they are doing is relocating an exchange they already had into a new building.... Only they've chosen to relocate it somewhere too small to allow 3rd party gear. Which is a purely selfish, childish move designed just to inconvenience their "competitors"

    (note: competitor tends to be wholesale customer, so Telstra is really inconveniencing their own customers.)

    What can Telstra do? Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125153)

    Telstra has plenty of alternates to RIM technology, they choose to use RIM as it stops their competitors in their tracks. That it disadvantages their own customers by turning back the technology clock is their problem.

    RIMS are just a form of FTTN Tech Dude -- 09/03/09

    It's been said before and I'll say it again. If the government is going to invest $4.7B in the NBN, then why would we use yesterday's technology? We should be rolling out FTTH, not FTTN.

    The the NBN is delivered using FTTN, then why is it going to be any different to the issues raised in this article? It will just be a different monopoly.

    The only sensible solution is for the NBN to be FTTH. Then we have a technology that will be useful well into the future. We also will no longer rely on the Telstra copper wires. It would even allow Telstra to compete if they wanted to using their existing infrastructure.

    In the mean time, RIMS aren't as bad as people are making out. Newer ones are ADSL2 capable. They also have the advantage of reducing the length of copper resulting in increased speeds to customers compared to copper all the way back to the exchange (for both ADSl and ADSL2). If you are 3km from your exchange (like me) then ADSL on a RIM will be faster than ADSL2 back to the exchange anyway.

    The only down side of RIMS is that competitors can't put equipment in them. This is not a problem with RIMS, but a problem with our network ownership model. And, if the NBN rolls out FTTN, we will be in exactly the same situation.

    Tech Dude??? Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125162)

    Tech dude - just a thought, if FTTN is going to costs in excess of $4.7B++++++
    What do yoy think FTTH is going to cost???
    Get a bit real in times considering the GFC and no one has money.
    PS: Back off Telstra - I live in a regional centre and Telstra is the only company to provide infrastructure- all other just jump on the bandwagon and get a free ride of Telstra!!

    it's not a free ride Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125223)

    1. Competitors rent the copper lines
    2. Taxpayers built Telstra and their network many years ago in a zero competition environment. Their rise to monopoly status was hardly a magnificent feat nor charitable. If Telstra didn't have to BY LAW supply services to regional Australia, they wouldn't. They have had it way to good for way to long,

    Time to slay the beast!

    Stop the OPTUS sponge off Telstra... Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125231)

    ...and end the free ride Conroy enjoyed by OPTUS under Howard/Coonan.

    PS Telstra does OWN the copper..nah..nah!!!

    Reply to Tech Dude Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125162)

    > If the NBN rolls out FTTN, we will be in exactly the same situation.

    I don't agree that FTTN is the appropriate technological choice for our long-term broadband future, BUT...

    Your comment about us being in the same situation is incorrect.

    Most people would not *care* who provides their underlying broadband infrastructure, so long as it is cost-competitive and feature-competitive.

    Telstra isn't either.

    I pay $90/month for ADSL2+ through my provider Internode, on Telstra hardware, when Internode can sell their own ADSL2+ service on their own equipment for $30/month cheaper.

    Why is this? Because Telstra looks to acquire a rate-of-return on its infrastructure that exceeds that which is typical for that infrastructure. It can do this because the ACCC does not control broadband pricing. But the ACCC does control LSS and ULL access pricing for competitors, to make sure Telstra doesn't rape and pillage them to access their lines.

    Telstra is not even feature competitive, look at the availability of Annex M on Internode's SOHO plans for example. These are not available through Telstra at any price.

    My gas is supplied through only one pipe, and I haven't heard my gas retailers complaining to the media about the cost of *that* infrastructure.

    So why can't the telecommunications infrastructure - whether it be copper or fibre-optic be managed in the same way.

    And, as far Telstra HFC being upped to 100Mbit, here's another example of non-national infrastructure that will be available to a select few. My housing estate is about 13 years old, with underground power. Telstra was too stingy to install HFC into those kinds of areas, despite it being "Melbourne Metro", 13kms from the city center.

    Facts Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    The building that was housing this exchange is scheduled to be torn down and Telstra are required by law to provide people with a phone line for voice. Hence why they are installing a RIM. I am sure they would prefer not to install/upgrade anything right before the NBN decision.

    There is nothing stopping any competitor from providing their own infrastructure for their customers.

    T$ Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125164)

    So telstra is allways right?

    nothing stopping any competitor Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125164)

    Actually, there is something stopping any competitor from building their own local loop - easements. What all the jolly tesltra fans ignore is that the ULL is governed by the easments to each building. This was given gratis to Telstra who only paid for the infrastructure. Even Telstra could not afford the easment cost, if it had to build the pstn today.

    Easement Access Horry -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125173)

    This is a good point. Telstra's cables run under roads, footpaths and so on. This infrastructure has been in place since the year dot. Undoubtedly in the early days it was subsidised by tax/ratepayers. Today the new players do not have the same luxury. Look at the all the hassles tha Optus went through when it wanted to run its cable service. It had to string the cabling up on power lines, and paying rent to the power distributors.

    Running fibre to the home, if Telstra won't let, say Internode or Optus use its cable tunnels and pits, would cost too much. One solution, perhaps, is to legislate to allow access to the pits that Telstra uses at reduced cost.

    @Easement Access Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125188)

    "This infrastructure has been in place since the year dot." Some has - some hasn't. It has been put in place over time and is still going on.

    "Undoubtedly in the early days it was subsidised by tax/ratepayers." It hasn't. it was paid for by Telstra and its previous incarnations.

    "Today the new players do not have the same luxury." Today, the new players have exactly the same 'luxury'. They just don't need it because they can hijack what Telstra built. It was Telstra that didn't have the luxury - there was no host they could attach themselves to.

    "Look at the all the hassles tha Optus went through when it wanted to run its cable service. It had to string the cabling up on power lines, and paying rent to the power distributors." Telstra offered Optus access to the ducts. They refused because it would be too expensive to pull their cables through. Much cheaper to nail them to power poles. The payment to power companies and/or councils came up later. It would still have been cheaper than using the ducts, which is why they went that way and eventually, Foxtel (actually VisionStream) followed.

    not funded by tax payers? Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125228)

    Are you serious? Telstra was a public utility until the mid 90's! Built by taxpayers in a competitive vacuum! Therefore it was built and paid for by taxpayers (and the government of the day)!

    @not funded by taxpayers? Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125232)

    The PMG was a government department until 1975. Telecom Australia was formed in 1975 as a GBE. It was corporatised in 1991 (I think it was then), spending a small amount of time as AOTC. At all times, whatever body it was was paying for what it built from revenue earned. The movement of money was from this body to consolidated revenue. In fact, from 1975 until it became a corporation, it was paying a substantial amount back to the taxpayer. The last payment was about $1B, about half its profit for the year.

    The people who paid for the network via the products they bought were also taxpayers, but it wasn't their taxes being used. The same can be said of any business in this country.

    Sahreholders OWN the PSTN!! Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125240)

    Thats right...paid in full BACK to the Taxpayer.

    Singtel/OPTUS would love the sponge to continue but lets hope Conroy has more balls than Coonan to stop the free ride off Telstra!!

    PMG/Telecom easements Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125228)

    PMG/Telecom did not have to pay anything for access as they had Govt right of access to any private or public land. Any private entity looking for easement rights can be slugged $10000 for each private access. Then they will need to pay for right of way on council lane, RTA, power companies etc. Easement costs can add $20,000 to each fibre to a house. How can any competitor to Telstra build a business case?

    Yeah, right, competitors have the same luxury... Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125228)

    Please, most of Telstra's current infrastructure was acquired during a period of monopoly. That meant that [obviously] they didn't have to compete with anyone, so they could charge what they liked. It also meant that since they were the only game in town, the only question for them was whether there was demand for their product.

    Start your rollout in the areas of highest demand, and proceed to areas of lower demand. The areas of lower demand must wait till you get to them because, basically, they have no other option. This "luxury" was afforded to PMG/Telecom until the early '90s.

    I grew up in Cranbourne in the late 70's and early 80's. The area in which I lived did not get telephone lines trenched into the ground until about 1977-8 roughly. I watched the Telecom crew doing this work when I was a young fella. If you wanted a telephone before then - forget it.

    Sure the PMG/Telecom might have grown its infrastructure using its own profits, but as someone else said, it was able to do this in a vacuum. It had no competition, which meant it could charge whatever the market would bear, prices which would typically be substantially more than what a genuinely competitive market would bring.

    PMG/Telecom was certainly seeded with government money, even if it then became self-funding. But the more important point is that it started out life with so many monopolistic concessions, that no competitor gets to enjoy today, that there can be no question of a comparison between how competitors must function today versus how PMG/Telecom functioned prior to deregulation.

    Really Steve -- 17/03/09 (in reply to #320125188)

    If you owned a house can I get the government to legislate that you rent it to me at a reduced cost so I can then rent it out at a profit. Get a life you fool. The Telstra network pits pipe and cable is now a private owned assett I for one do not see why Telstra should give/provide any part of this assett to a competitor. If a competitor wants to build a network let them spend the money and build it not rely on the government to legislate access as is the case with the ULL. Who would compensate for damage to existing infrastructure that would be caused by all the over hauling of wxisting cable? Or would you want the government to legislate that Telstra would have to accept the risk. Once again get your head out of the sand and see the competition in the telco market for what it is in this country and that is a joke.

    Easements Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125173)

    Actually, most of the time, telstra doesn't even pay for the infrastructure. The developer pays for the infrastructure, then has to gift it to telstra if they want service.

    Has competition policy failed David Havyatt -- 09/03/09

    See my <a href="http://davidhavyatt.blogspot.com/2009/03/cutting-fibre.html">blog</a> on this. The regulatory regime has been equipped with adequate means to deal with this, but a combination of a belief by access seekers that Telstra has an obligation to maintain copper and sheer inactivity by the ACCC has led to a sub-optimal result.

    This is not "cabinetisation by stealth", nor is it a policy failure. It is merely a reflection of the sorry state of the industry where Telstra can't meaningfully engage with its wholesale customers because the supplier/customer relationship is over-whelmed by their relationship as competitors.

    There are solutions to this.

    Any solutions come to mind? Anonymous -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125195)

    Merely a question and not trying to be offensive and/or sarcastic.

    Speaking of which, does every blogpost (and this is a blog, not an article) regarding Telstra results in the comments section degenerating into a slanging match between pro and anti-telstra supporters?

    Because it's fun taking the ***s out of the amateur experts Jason -- 09/03/09 (in reply to #320125208)

    That's all part of the fun anonymous.

    But what's even better is when you take it to the next level and single out the most egotistic, big mouthed, bigots, (rofl) from 'both camps', rev them both up and give them a bit of their own back. Just as I did/do to Sydney Mike and Mel Sommersberg. Ooh they don't like it, lol.

    It's priceless because one calls me a 'Telstra fanboi' and the other calls me the 'anti Telstra Brigade' and they are both positive they are right, rofl.

    Also even though one is Telstra's #2 fan the other their #1 hater, they stick up for each other against me, lmfao.

    Really it's most comical to witness these clowns. So join us and give these morons a serve or give me a serve, who cares, it is great fun.

    Because it's fun taking the ***s out of the amateur experts Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125214)

    If all this is as you put it " all part of the fun", then you are the biggest moron on earth. We can only assume you are an ex-Telstra worker, with a huge grudge against them.

    SMN. Anonymous -- 10/03/09 (in reply to #320125269)

    Seems I have lured Telstra #2 fan and chronic halfwit into my web, AGAIN, rofl. Or perhaps a new halfwit? You two should get together, lol.

    Get a life Simon -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125214)

    Seriously Jason, your life must be crap if you need to get your jollies baiting telco loonies.

    I visit this site because I am concerned that Australia's telecoms are in deep **** and I want to know what others think. The endless battle of "witts" is sad and pointless and detracts from the debate. Anyway, you will have it all to yourselves soon enough as interested readers get fed up with the rubbish and depart.

    ............Get a life Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125366)

    You can say that again. Why they bother visiting this site is beyond me. It's simply pointless, distasteful and unintelligent crap.

    @......Get a life Jason -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125369)

    Yet another oxymoron.

    Claiming someone else of being distasteful then using the word crap, rofl?

    Why they bother? Why YOU bother....

    Ditto Jason -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125366)

    Seriously Simon, your life must be crap if you need to get your jollies by being a baited telco loony!

    re Simon Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125396)

    I would rather say Simon is a realist unlike you protagonists!!

    Yes indeed thank you. Jason (the champion) -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125402)

    Why thank you (anonymous) I do believe I am a protagonist.

    pro-tag-o-nist (pr-tg-nst) - The leader of a cause; a champion.

    I think you were dumbly trying to convey antagonist or even an antipathist moron.

    You just can't get anything right can you $3.08 (haha) per share boy?

    Yeah idiot... a LOST cause!! Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125403)

    Yeah..your right idiot!!

    Like the rest of you idiots on the BOPTUS/Titanic you loser!!

    A Lost cause..lol

    $3.08 Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125410)

    $3.08 - feeling hungry?

    $3.08 Aloha -- 12/03/09 (in reply to #320125414)

    $ 0.00 - Value of your shareholding overall.

    and loving it. Anonymous -- 12/03/09 (in reply to #320125477)

    Correct and I AM LOVING IT.

    Bet you wish you had $0.00 instead of buying even more losses just last week, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Cost me $0.00, value $0.00 = $0.00 loss

    Cost you losts, value SFA = HUGE loss.

    Try as you undoubtedly and desperately have and will, you are a LOSER, chump. And you want to make fun of me, haha, moron.

    Just think about it Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    If you were Telstra, and you had an exchange that was going to be torn down whether you liked it or not (as in this case here), would you:
    a) find a new site large enough for a full exchange, pay through the nose for it even though it may be decommissioned within a couple of years, and recreate the exchange you used to have (and much of the ancient infrastructure that goes with it) almost exactly; or
    b) install a streetside cabinet or two, fed by fibre from another exchange (FTTN!), at minimal cost and which, as far as your own business is concerned, delivers exactly the same services.

    I know which one I'd choose.

    Telstra sucks, but come on - would you do things any differently? Telstra do not build exchanges at all anymore, as far as I know. It is far cheaper and more future-proof to deploy RIMs (or similar).

    they are not installing a RIM Anonymous -- 09/03/09

    they are installing a CMUX, so all customers will be able to get ADSL2+ thru bigpond or a telstra wholesale product. this is not the same as a RIM which haven't been installed for atleast the last 6 years.
    The building is being demolished and currently there is no 3rd party equipment in it, it is simply connected to the main exchange via copper. the new exchange may not be in a location where it is easy to upgrade to copper, or telstra may feel that it is not worth the cost as it will have to be installed new before the cutover, meaning it isn't as simple as just relocating the copper

    RIM, CMUX, the outcomes are the same... Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125213)

    RIM has almost become a generic term meaning "cabinet-based mini-exchange" with fibre-optic cable back to a main exchange.

    Sure a RIM and a CMUX are different, but from the perspective of the problem, both of they possess roughly the same form and have the same negative impact on competitors.

    That is, they dilute the number of potential customers down to a point where it diminishes the ability of competitor to sufficiently amortize their capital costs.

    For Telstra though, it has roughly *all* the customers on said RIM/CMUX so its prospect of amortization are still much better.

    TransACT? Anonymous -- 10/03/09

    Why don't the polly's move to TransACT. I'm sure that TransACT has its own infrastructure and service the Deakin area.

    TransACT sees the light. Mel Sommersberg -- 12/03/09 (in reply to #320125249)

    Not sure about Deakin but they do run FTTH in Forde. TransACT, whilst smaller, are light years ahead of Telstra.

    Peter Peter -- 10/03/09

    The solution is structural separation. A simple concept, but would be politically difficult to implement. However, Australia realistically has no other choice but to do this or for problems such as this example to persist.

    Open competition for all. Sydney Lawrence -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125267)

    Peter the solution to the NBN imbroglio is to allow open competition to all.

    No distorting the market by restrictions on Telstra. Let those who wish to compete invest the vast sums required and offer their services to the public.

    Sure, that sounds fair (not). Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125354)

    Sydney simply doesn't "get it". He doesn't want to "get it". And he seem too stupid to "get it".

    Telstra has a monopoly on telecomms infrastructure insofar as consumer households are concerned. They own the copper to pretty much every house in Australia.

    Look at the earlier comments that say developers usually foot the bill for telecommunications infrastructure but have to "gift" it to Telstra to enable service.

    Telstra is neatly positioned at the center of the Australia telecomms "universe", a position that numerous decades of monopoly prior to deregulation helped cement. A monopoly on account of it previously being a government-ran or government-owned organisation. Its obligations were to provide a telephone to everyone.

    Sydney would have us believe that because Telstra has now been "sold off" to shareholders that it is just another company, like any of its competitors, and therefore said competitors should simply compete with it on some kind of equal footing.

    But competitors have never had all the "nutrition" that Telstra had to allow it to grow up and become the proverbial 800 pound gorilla. Like new estate copper being paid for by developers and gifted to Telstra. Like government-mandated right-of-way. Like monopoly-rate STD telephone calls. Particulars like that.

    Telstra is now custodian or owner of a massive amount of copper that it mainly acquired during a period of monopoly.

    To suggest that a competitor can duplicate that infrastructure or achieve the same outcome in a modern period of competition is just silly.

    And what's even sillier is the implication by Sydney that we should allow duplication of infrastructure through competition in the first place.

    Bring on a separate network owner and/or structural separation of Telstra!

    Compete or perish. Sydney Lawrence -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125373)

    What most Telstra opponents want to "get" is a free ride on Telstra plant and equipment and the destruction of Telstra as a competitor.

    Simple solution is let the Government fund the NBN proposal and let Telstra supply the competition that Telstra opponents have always craved.

    To expect Telstra to reduce its competition to assist others is stupid. This would create a false market and result in exactly the opposite to a competitive market that Telstra opponents have demanded for years.

    Telstra have a Network that is capable of being expanded and upgraded and this is what Telstra competitors fear. Hense their call for the break-up of Telstra. Competition is king.

    One thing is clear, the Government must allow open competition and in no way restrict Telstra from supplying this competition. To do so would destroy the advancement of technology in Australia for the forseeable future.

    Telstra Monopoly Myth!!! Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125373)

    The monopoly myth is being espoused again by the free loading loving OPTUS fans...

    I am sorry but they just dont get it!! IF and I mean IF they invested we would have "True Competition" against Telstra!!

    Peter Peter -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125354)

    It was open to all. Everybody had an opportunity to submit a tender. Some companies chose not to. Too bad, so sad, now bugger off.

    A Technicality!! Anonymous -- 11/03/09 (in reply to #320125391)

    Anyway that is serious about an NBN has to have Telstra on board...you blokes are guilding the lilly if ya reckon otherwise.............

    Open for some but not others. Mel Sommersberg -- 12/03/09 (in reply to #320125354)

    Sydney, Telstra places more restrictions on themselves than are imposed by the ACCC. Such as Telstra's unwillingness to serve markets outside the state capitals unless forced to do so.

    Not really news TZ -- 11/03/09

    This has been going on for years and all around the country. I am in a new area in Adelaide, and Telstra does exactly this. They recently informed me, when trying to steal me as a customer, that they had 2 copper lines in my street, one for their customers, and one for everyone else. I couldn't get broadband for 4 months, and now I have managed to get ADSL, although still not ADSL2+. I told telstra where to go.... ACCC need to investigate this issue on a nation wide scale.

    A Dummy Spit Rex Alfie Lee -- 12/03/09

    On this whole RIMs argument I confess I am a complete dummy. On Telstra though I'm not. If Telstra are activating a system that is old hat then there is a reason for it. It means that if no-one else can access it then it is purely about monopoly maintenance.

    Senator Conroy, this is your job. Get off your butt & do something about this. Split Telstra ASAP or buy the frigging company back. You have the equivalent of Microsoft with their diversionary tactics & various monopolisation schemes that destroy competition & force users to accept their over-advertised garbage that never performs as well as they claim. They deceive to get customers back with fallacious contracts created by scum companies working under the guise of "Telstra", paid by Telstra but denied by Telstra.

    This company has to bit split or just returned & the shareholders paid back.

Add your opinion

David Braue

David Braue

Journalist

[+] Read bio

Latest Videos

Sponsored content

Power Centre - Content from our premier sponsors

Tags

Back to top

Featured