Sep 06 14

Massive desktop Linux migration kept quiet

Posted by Steven Deare @ 11:07 29 comments

Why has the country's biggest known desktop Linux implementation gone relatively unpublicised for so long?

This week I wrote about Kennards Hire's project to migrate its whole IT infrastructure to Linux.

The project should be a milestone reference point for vendors like Novell and Sun who keep telling us Linux is ready for the desktop, despite a dearth of local customers.

We tried to cover the rollout late last year. Kennards were not keen to discuss it until a later date, however.

As it stands now, the desktop component was completed some time ago. Why then, has some marketing machine not told the world about Kennards' rollout?

Answer: because they're using Fedora.

Although sponsored by Red Hat, the Fedora project is mainly run by volunteers. Without the mouthpiece of a multinational, this sizeable Linux rollout has gone relatively unnoticed for some time.

Which makes it even more interesting. Is this, in fact, Australia's biggest deployment of Linux desktops? Or are there others out there, quietly chugging away?

Talkback 29 comments

Massive desktop Linux migration kept quiet Anonymous -- 16/09/06

I'm not sure if this is good news or bad news. Does it mean there are more Enterprise Linux migrations that we're not hearing about? If so, then the Linux adoption rate is much higher than the think tanks are reporting. If not, then the Linux adoption rate is only slightly higher the reported. I guess it's good news after all. Good new that is unless you're Microsoft.
Debian Brian Smith -- 16/09/06

Debain is not as commercial and runs on more types of hardware them most and is being adopted like crazy. Knoppix kanotix are boot cds that can be installed to be fully functional debian installs are being used worldwide. You may of even heard of ubuntu its also debian based. Debian is definatly not a marketing type distro. They do have a commercial support side to them. and the deb package system is even used by fedora.

I am sure there are alot more going on. Me personaly have been using linux for my main desktop for years (5 years + ) I run windows on a old machine for silly eye candy stuff.. and spend a hour or so a month updating scandisking and defragging it if I have time.. I look at it this way i fix computers all day don't want to mess around on my own system. I just want it to work!

Microsoft is just pretty much for eye candy and games. We all hope that changes. the real challenge is adoption of a open document format and stop the use of Dot net for major development roll outs. Keep it muliti platform and you are investing in to the future.

Most of the real studies.. (I mean the independent ones not well funded or secretly accosiated with microsoft) clearly show a experienced Linux IT team can migate companies over with less pain. And the return on investment is crazy not to do in alot of the cases.

Most of the cost is in the change of the windows only software.

So Linux (that no one really owns) has got a good chunck of the American states, China, India, Uk, Germany.. Frig there has been a huge roll out almost every ware.. not to mention companys that run it or playing with the idea..

Microsoft was never a stable alternative with out a deticated IT team.. Linux always in the end needs less support

Microsoft is done in my head, and when Bill gates steped down it really showed me that they really have hit there peek. the rest is fluff from here on in.. Unless they conform to the natral evolution (they will fight it to the end) its really over.. the Dot net will eventualy dry up
1. Slight correction Anonymous -- 16/09/06
  
  > and the deb package system is even used by fedora.
  
  The deb package system isn't used on Fedora. apt is, along with yum and up2date. But the packages are all rpms. Now, you can use alien to convert debs to rpms (and other formats) as well as back.
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Desktop Linux vendors cyber_rigger -- 16/09/06

http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
I'm surprised Red Hat isn't trumpeting this! Anonymous -- 17/09/06

Red Hat, the sponsor of Fedora Core, should be singing this from the highest of the treetops! I don't for the life of me see a good reason why they aren't. The only reason I can think of would be a bad, very mistaken, one--they might not want larger enterprises thinking that Fedora Core makes a "stable" enterprise desktop, so that they buy Red Hat Desktop instead. But that would go contrary to their larger goal of market penetration of Red Hat *anything* into the enterprise, so it wouldn't make sense for them to do that.
1. No singing... John -- 17/09/06
  
  There is no singing from Red hat because they can not change massive inbuilt support fees, making their software more expensive than the similiar MS products. They no linger sponsor the "free" stuff so why sing and dance for something that gave them no value or revenue
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The best Reason Anonymous -- 17/09/06

If the entire migration falls on its face and the company dies, well you don't want to preempt that by shouting about your decisions as the CIO, CTO in such a company...you want to endure success especially in such a high risk migration.
1. Risk.. Anonymous -- 29/09/06
  
  Could we honestly say that there is more risk rolling out a linux desktop than Windows, or thin clients perhaps? And further to that, how would you rate ongoing risk managed with each OS?
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2. pretty easy John -- 05/10/06
  
  Can you centrally manage security, application deployment, asset management, software and hardware audit, software usage metering, enforce a single authentication method, using the same authentication source provide authorisation permissions to all services offered on the network. Use your authentication service to extend out and trust your business partners etc. That is part of how I would be looking at risk and being a nimble and agile IT service to an organisation
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3. Of course you can... Anonymous -- 09/10/06
  
  ...and without having to put up with the abomination that is Active Directoty, let alone the joke toy called MOM that Microsoft tries to foist on you.
  
  Wherever you look you quickly see that Linux has it all over the competition, it's truly a win-win !!
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4. You Assume Ad John -- 09/10/06
  
  Why assume I am talking MS products?
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5. Check yourself Anonymous -- 09/10/06
  
  Question for you - have you heard of openLDAP, or e-Directory from Novell - if you want to go to the extent of all that complexity I would be using a more feature rich directory service than AD.
  
  One mistake that is always made is that people assume that MS software is the best and focus their attention on it. Yes MS has great marketing, but thier products are great? Good question. Go out to the market and do some reseach, there is much out there other than 'defaulting' to the sometimes easiest choice.
  
  By the way, do you reakon that Kennards want to deploy all of that overhead accross thier network? If I was designing their deployment I certainly would not be. :-)
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6. Why assume MS John -- 09/10/06
  
  Why did you assume I was talking MS products. All I want is an integrated end to end solution, not pieces and bit bolted together
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How did they.... Anonymous -- 02/10/06

I have considered this in previous roles but could get no clear view on how to migrate those 1000's of user developed excel spreadsheets. Is tere an weasy way to do this during the migration?
1. Excel spreadsheets? Bill Canaday -- 05/10/06
  
  Except for the autorun macros, Open Office (and others) have been eating Excel spreadsheets for breakfast for years. And since autorunning macros have been shown to be a horrible security gaffe, smart corporations will ixnay them across the board. Now ... what was your question?
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Is Linux really ready? Anonymous -- 03/10/06

There are still many barriers to large scale Linux rollouts. Linux is still far more difficult to install and trouble shoot than XP and has no effective "out of the box" support for wireless networking.

Basicly if your Linux install doesn't work "out of the box" then a 2003/XP network will be cheaper to pay for and install than a "free" Linux distro. The Red Hat pricing model most acurately reflects the true cost of Linux. (ie more expensive than Microsoft)

Linux support is still thin on the ground and priced like mainframe suport used to be in the old days.

Installing new software is frequently a nightmare, and uninstalling broken software nothing short of hell.
1. Garbage. Micheal Jones -- 07/10/06
  
  I take it you're on the MS payroll somehow ?
  
  You're talking rubbish.
  
  I suggest anyone who is interested try some googling. Windows hardware support is poor and its management software pales into comparison with Linux. Add to this the gaurantee that your network will spend most of its time paralysed with Windows viruses running rampant over it and you quickly see the change to Linux is a no brainer.
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2. Actually, its very easy.... Noven Purnell-Webb -- 09/10/06
  
  having just completed an organisation-wide rollout of almost 80 computers, including audio and visual production studios, a range of laptops (including softmodems and wireless cards) and 6 different business segments (with their own software / network resource requirements) I can say that it is no more difficult than a comparable windows rollout.
  
  Centralised authentication and management? Done. Shared calendars / contact / meeting lists? Done.
  Networked printers? Done.
  All required software? Done.
  
  Probably the biggest difference was in the training given to the end users - two days of it. Participants fell into two groups - good computer users who found everything was very easy, "just about the same" and maybe learned a few new tricks; and poor computer users who should have had this kind of basic training for using any operating system.
  
  Linux on the desktop for a corporate environment is a breeze, eliminates the endless virus issues and hugely mitigates the security issues.
  
  The only people who would say it is 'too hard' are trained M$ monkeys who are afraid to spend a little time learning something new.
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Really...yes indeed! Anonymous -- 04/10/06

No support for wireless netowrking? This comment is incorrect. Wireless networking support has been around for over 2 years, at least as long as I have been using it.

There is much linux support out there, and doing your sums right is a much more cost effective model than XP / office in the corporate environment. The cruncher is to make sure that the distro / image used fits its purpose in the workplace. (for example XP does not fit a purpose out of the box, other than internet browsing :-) )

Installing and uninstalling software is very easy. I suggest the following distibutions: openSUSE or Novell desktop, or try Ubuntu. You will be very supprised. :-)

Here is another question for you: Has Windows ever been ready for the server environment?
1. of course John -- 05/10/06
  
  Of course Windows runs the Nasdax, so I assume it therefore is ready as the worlds economy runs on it
  
  Korea.com has 8 million exchange users
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2. u-huh Anonymous -- 09/10/06
  
  Now I urge you to go away and find out how they have deployed windows in that environment... and what other gear they have deployed there :-)
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3. They are Pure John -- 09/10/06
  
  I am not sure what you are asking, but they are pure MS engines running all of them with some external access systems, go look at the case studies and write ups (yes other then MS ones)
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4. windows? Anonymous -- 09/10/06
  
  They may very well be... in a white paper capacity (limited), but I doubt very much those installations acutally resembles anything close to something we get off the shelf.
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5. Easy to install/uninstall -- Sometimes Lance Green -- 06/10/06
  
  I use Novell SUSE linux 10.1.
  
  If the software is on the install CD/DVD it is very easy.
  
  If Not......
  I do not find it easy to install software consistently. I am using Synaptic after trying SMART, YAST & Kynaptic. It is hard to find consistent download sources. I wish to upgrade GNUCash to version 2.0. It appears to come as a compile yourself version (this is not my idea of easy). Several of the sites suggested to me by an online forum with associated dependencies broke my system so badly I reinstalled the entire operating system. Again not easy.
  
  I had problems updating Open Office, Thunderbird, Firefox (not with latest self updating versions) plus other applications.
  
  PS I am still using the old version of GNUCash
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6. Price Check Anonymous -- 09/10/06
  
  Q1. How much did you pay for the software?
  
  Q2. After installation did all of the features of the OS (+office and all of the other software installed) work ok?
  
  Q3. Sofware updates for SuSE are released with a distribution because they are built to work with that disrtibution. Yes it takes a bit of reading to upgrade software, but at the end of it all the desktop remains stable - Try UBUNTU if you are having issues :-)
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7. Linux Upgrade - Not Easy Lance Green -- 13/10/06
  
  Chris,
  
  I purchased my software from Novell so I had support. I think $110.
  
  What did not work:
  - Sound.
  - Scanner.
  - Browsing Network
  - Epson printer to work
  - Backing up System and restoring
  - Some problems with Thunderbird I do not have under XP.
  
  Thanks to all the support forums I have a fully working system now but had to run many command line reconfigures and diagnostics.
  
  I also use UBUNTU Live CD and until 6.06 could not get XWindows to work on my system.
  
  All this is berfore I try to upgrade software I use to latest versions.
  
  I like and regularly use Linux and am very happy that it is a competitor to other Operating Systems I think both systems have improved as a result. I also donate to free software that I think is good after I am sure I will use it no matter which platform it is on.
  
  I have setup several consumer desktop systems for other people which I support (for free) and now only install XP as it requires much less support by me to keep these systems running reliably.
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MS Access Anonymous -- 13/10/06

my 2 cents

until openoffice/staroffice can port this as it does with xls, doc etc its a very hard road to take linux.

linux needs an ms access killer, one that is as simple to do forms and reports with, in addition to the database, as access is.

yes already know access is not for serious, larger databases, but is perfect for small # of users and data , of which there are plenty on many desktops.
We're fight entrenched beliefs Anonymous -- 13/10/06

I'm principal of a non-government school. I would give my right arm to make the move to Linux across the whole campus; it would save us thousands. My IT teacher fiddles with it and puts open source products out there. Some of the advanced kids we show Linux in VMware.
The biggest problem is getting staff to understand that Windows and Office are not the computer. I tried to give Star Office a run but staff reacted badly because it was not Office; as though if not Office it was inferior. I had the same problem years ago when a young lady told me that MS Word was the best word processor. Ha! I started with Wordstar and then Word Perfect 4.2. The only reason MS Word took over as the leading word processor was that it was bundled almost free with the Windows 3 OS. That doesn't make it better than the rest; its just marketing.

My point is that there is an entrenched mindset that sees Windows and Office as the only real way to use a computer.

Recentl;y I had a young tech in the office trying work out my smtp wasn't working in Thunderbird. He was putting down T/bird even thought he had never used it. He just simply thought that not being from MS meant that it was inferior and troublesome. Thats brainwashing..... (Written with seething frustration).
1. Just do it then John -- 14/10/06
  
  invest, educate and migrate don't just accept what users say. Put in training plans, teach your staff, get a professional team to migrate you etc. Yes it requires investmet of time, money and effort
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What's wrong with Open Office Database? Anonymous -- 13/02/07

You can you not just select connect to an existing database when you go to open? It seems to do the job, now stop developing access databases...

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Massive desktop Linux migration kept quiet

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Talkback 29 comments

Massive desktop Linux migration kept quiet Anonymous -- 16/09/06

Debian Brian Smith -- 16/09/06

Slight correction Anonymous -- 16/09/06

Desktop Linux vendors cyber_rigger -- 16/09/06

I'm surprised Red Hat isn't trumpeting this! Anonymous -- 17/09/06

No singing... John -- 17/09/06

The best Reason Anonymous -- 17/09/06

Risk.. Anonymous -- 29/09/06

pretty easy John -- 05/10/06

Of course you can... Anonymous -- 09/10/06

You Assume Ad John -- 09/10/06

Check yourself Anonymous -- 09/10/06

Why assume MS John -- 09/10/06

How did they.... Anonymous -- 02/10/06

Excel spreadsheets? Bill Canaday -- 05/10/06

Is Linux really ready? Anonymous -- 03/10/06

Garbage. Micheal Jones -- 07/10/06

Actually, its very easy.... Noven Purnell-Webb -- 09/10/06

Really...yes indeed! Anonymous -- 04/10/06

of course John -- 05/10/06

u-huh Anonymous -- 09/10/06

They are Pure John -- 09/10/06

windows? Anonymous -- 09/10/06

Easy to install/uninstall -- Sometimes Lance Green -- 06/10/06

Price Check Anonymous -- 09/10/06

Linux Upgrade - Not Easy Lance Green -- 13/10/06

MS Access Anonymous -- 13/10/06

We're fight entrenched beliefs Anonymous -- 13/10/06

Just do it then John -- 14/10/06

What's wrong with Open Office Database? Anonymous -- 13/02/07

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